Let's breakdown two of the best "dual teams" in Kentucky History. No doubt the best since 2000.

SO 03' Looks like this

103- Ben Denny (Senior) 3rd in state. Lost to Kyle Ruschell in the semi's 2-1. 

112- Derek Scott (Freshman) 4th in state. 

119- Chris Skaggs (Senior) 4th in state.

125- Allen Oliver (Senior) State Runner up

130- Billy Whitehouse (Senior) State Runner up. Lost to Brad Cooper (3x State Champ) 4-2 in finals

135- Will VanNorstand (Senior) 6th in state

140-  Jessie Holloway (Senior) DNP

145- Steve Lovewell (Senior) State Champ

152- Jamie Cantrell (Senior) 7th in state

160- Nick Fiser (Senior) State Champ

171- Greg Minwell (Senior) 4th in state

189- Patrick Sims (Senior) 7th in state

215- Taylor Scherer (Freshman) 6th in state

HWT- Nathan Pullium (Junior) 4th in state

So lets start this epic breakdown:

103- Kyle Griffith vs Ben Denny: I wrestled Denny. No way Griffith can even keep this match up close. Denny was pinning machine so I'm confident that Denny will get the pin here. If, and only if, Griffith can get on top he might be able to keep it close as Denny wasn't "that" good from bottom so this might be the only way for Griffith to score. Still calling a pin at this point. 6-0

112- Derek Scott vs Dan Hurrelbrink: I think this would be a very technical wrestling match but Scott's ability to score points in bunches I think is too much for Dan to  handle. Scott was incredible on his feet and insanely tough to score on. Can't see a way Dan wins the match, but I think Dan being a Senior allows him to keep it close. 6-2 match, gives the 03' team a 9-0 lead.

119- Chris Skaggs vs Jake Hagedorn: Big advantage here to Skaggs. Hagedorn was strong and wouldn't give up BIG points but Skaggs would dominate this match up and wins with a major. 13-0

125- Allen Oliver vs Ben Hines: This is a huge match up for the 04' team to win. I give the advantage to Hines in a razor close decision. I think the difference here is Hines ability to score from both top and bottom better than Oliver's ability to score from those positions. 3-2 Hines in a nail bitter. 13-3

130- Billy Whitehouse vs Cory Bankamper: This is a coin flip and I really have no clue how to score this. Whitehouse was awesome on his feet and limited Brad Cooper to I believe only one takedown in their finals match. I don't think Cory scores a takedown, but I also don't believe Whitehouse scores one either. With this match up being decided on the mat, I'm going to give a slight edge to Bankamper. In ride or die, I think Bankamper rides out Whitehouse in OT. 13-6

135- Will VanNorstand vs Bo Hines: This is the first sure fire win for the 04' team. Bo, who was incredible on his feet, scores takedowns at will. I think Bo does enough to get a tech-fall here 20-5. CC is making a comeback 13-11 

140- Jessie Holloway vs Brian Wilson: Two non placers here so this match up will be key. To be completely honest I have no clue who Holloway was. However I do know that Wilson was a pretty darn good wrestler. Since I can't speak intelligently on the matter I will give Wilson the edge in a dec. 8-5. This gives CC the edge for a very short time. 13-14

145- Steve Lovewell vs Aaron Hickey: Huge advantage here for South Oldham. Lovewell was a brick house who was dynamite on top and on his feet. He is way too much for Hickey to handle. I think Lovewell scores bonus points here but i'm not calling a tech or pin. I think the momentum has shifted in CC's favor so Hickey keeps it close-ish. 13-4 maj win for Lovewell. 17-14

152- Jamie Cantrell vs Mike Nolan: This is a good match up for CC. Mike Nolan basically went from JV to State champ in less than two months. Mike never wowed me in any way other than he was just a winner. Not sure if Nolan ever really blew anyone out, nor do I think he was much of a pinner. I will give Nolan the edge in a pretty dominate decision, 8-2 and tying the match up into the best match of the night! 17-17

160- Nick Fiser vs Adam Moeves: I'm going to call a big upset here. I think Moeves wins this match up on his feet where I think he was the better wrestler. Fisher doesn't get the chance to be on top where he was very good because Moeves chooses neutral in the third period. 6-4 Moeves, thus giving CC the lead 20-17

171- Greg Minwell vs Jimmy Housz: If my memory serves me correctly, they actually meet in the conso quarter finals in 03 with Minwell winning. However, nobody improved more over the summer than Housz! Fact, he was a machine his senior year. I think he wins this match rather convincingly although he would be unable to score bonus points for CC. 10-3, 23-17 CC 04'

189- Patrick Sims vs Kevin Orth: Both finished 7th in state however Sims was the better wrestler. I like Orth's chances but I can't see him winning this match. Orth was funky and could catch Sims but I don't see that being the case. Sims in a decision 4-0. 23-20 CC

215- Taylor Scherer vs Tim Mosely: Scherer is regarded by many as one of the best upper weights this state has ever seen. That says a lot for a kid that could have cared less about wrestling. He never once wrestled over the summer and only wrestled to stay in shape for football which he played in college. Scherer though would smoke Mosely in this match up. A pin is in the card. This really hurts CC and comes down to the heavy weight match to decide it all. 26-23 SO.

HWT- Nathan Pullium vs Andy Hagedorn: I'm going with Hagedorn on this one because in 04 he actually beat Pullium that season. Not sure of the score but because their heavy weights its was either in OT or a pin. I'm going to go with OT dec which actually ties up the dual 26-26.

I'm not sure how criteria works anymore but with pins going in the SO 03's favor I'm going to say they win the dual. The HUGE matches: 125/130/160. If South Oldham wins those then this is a blow out, however if CC win those and somebody like Housz gets bonus points then victory goes to CC 04'. Hope you enjoyed

Debate begins in 5..4...3...2...1...

again really can't argue with your breakdown you do a really good job of analizing and expressing a wrestlers atributes

and weaknesses. Now I have to be honest and say this years Union team will rank as one of the best as well

let's see what you got and put them in the mix.

The flaw in your prediction reasoning is the upset at 160. People, keep in mind that this was the 1st year the tournament expanded as the reasoning for their point total. I would take the 2009 Trinity team over both.

tiltfor3 I agree with the 160 comment, that one may be a stretch.  Now why do you think that the year of the team expansion makes a reason for the higher point totals over subsequent years? all the teams since had the same rules and guidelines.

Did either of you watch Moeves and Fiser wrestle? Fiser was a good wrestler but he got crushed by Angel Barton the year before on his feet. Angel was a good on the feet wrestler but no where near Moeves. The more I think about it the less of an upset it would be. Moeves ran into a buzz saw his Senior year and lost in a very competitive match up. I think if your going in a dual format I strongly believe these are the TWO  BEST TEAMS, not individuals, KY has produced since 2000. (Which was my first year of varsity)

yes, I know all about adam, seen him wrestle many times would dominate in practice over nolan and even hause at times. I am less framiliar with the oldham kid who won state that year.

Billy whitehouse did not lose to Brad Cooper in the Finals in 03 because Brad was at 135 and teched Bo Hines in the finals.

The point totals went up because of another round in the tournament. Every kid in the finals had to win one more match to get there. Therefore at least 2 more points per wrestler. Also the consolation brackets are bigger. More matches more opportunity for more team points. I also believe it was the 1st year they started givng 7th and 8th place out. They use to only give top 6 placement in the state tourney. (I'm still not use to the 7th and 8th place finishers)

Please refer to me question, I said subuqent as in 2003 and after. The 16 man team totals, the top 3 points in history all belong to woodford.

Yes the top 3 team totals in a 16 man bracket belong to Woodford. (All of them after the expansion of wt. classes with the addition of 215).

I believe what Tilt was saying is the reason South Oldhams team point totals were higher than those of the past is because of the extra matches in the tournament after 02.

I agree that the point totals were higher due to the new format but that point total has not been beat which makes it impressive.