Here we go with the weather again. Snow called for throughout the week.

I know, I'm so tired of this weather. I wished it would just skip this week so we all can get practice in so the kids can be ready for MS state. I hope everyone stays safe and gets some practice time on the mats.

does anyone know if there is a contingency plan if weather is an issue or if montgomery county schools are closed at the end of the weekend

does anyone know if there is a contingency plan if weather is an issue or if montgomery county schools are closed at the end of the weekend

Can always come down the night before and stay in a hotel like the region 4 kids did.

Last year there was a big snow on the day before and the day of the middle school state tournament and Montgomery Co went on with it as planned. We went down the night before and stayed the night. Worked out good for us I'd say we will do it again this year this in case there is snow again. Always better to be safe than sorry when it comes to mother nature.

Last year there was a big snow on the day before and the day of the middle school state tournament and Montgomery Co went on with it as planned. We went down the night before and stayed the night. Worked out good for us I'd say we will do it again this year this in case there is snow again. Always better to be safe than sorry when it comes to mother nature.

Exactly.

Any allowance going to made for the weather? 1lb?

Any allowance going to made for the weather? 1lb?

I'm sure they will. I hope they do not.

I'm sure they will. I hope they do not.

100% agree with ya. They will but wished they wouldn't.

As of now, no allowance

As of now, no allowance

Should be no allowance at all!  There is plenty of ice and snow out there for these kids to go shovel and get a work out!!! 

I feel as if you know state is coming be prepared!!

I agree, there shouldnt be an allowance period (not in Jan or if there is bad weather). One of the key ingredients to be a great wrestler is discipline.  

allowing another pound

I agree, there shouldnt be an allowance period (not in Jan or if there is bad weather). One of the key ingredients to be a great wrestler is discipline.

We have only adopted the rules used at the high school level. And who should be more disciplined? A 12 year old or 17 year old?

We have only adopted the rules used at the high school level. And who should be more disciplined? A 12 year old or 17 year old?

I wasn't aware that at the high school level they give a 2lb allowance and then consider another for bad weather. 

I wasn't aware that at the high school level they give a 2lb allowance and then consider another for bad weather.

ART. 5 . . . When there are consecutive days of team competition, there shall be a 1-pound additional allowance granted each day for all wrestlers up to a maximum of two pounds. In order to be granted this 1-pound additional allowance, a minimum of 48 hours advance notice is required for the opponent(s). The acceptable person(s) to receive that notice shall be the head coach, principal or athletic director. Competitions that are postponed for one calendar day or more, for reasons beyond the control of the participating school(s), or practices that cannot be held in these situations due to school policy shall be treated the same as competitions when there are consecutive days of competition in terms of the 1-pound allowance, with the exception of the required 48-hour notice.

Rule 4-4-4 covers the 2 lb allowance normally given after Christmas.

Rule 4-4-3 is interesting. ART. 3 . . . At anytime the use of sweat boxes; hot showers; whirlpools; rubber, vinyl and plastic-type suits; or similar artificial heating devices; diuretics; or other methods for quick weight reduction purposes is prohibited and shall disqualify an individual from competition.

So if I'm at the Y and see a kid in plastics entering the sauna and I tell the head official he could be DQd at weighins. (Hypothetically of course.)

I wasn't either but just looked it up. It's NFHS Rule 4-5-5.

ART. 5 . . . When there are consecutive days of team competition, there shall be a 1-pound additional allowance granted each day for all wrestlers up to a maximum of two pounds. In order to be granted this 1-pound additional allowance, a minimum of 48 hours advance notice is required for the opponent(s). The acceptable person(s) to receive that notice shall be the head coach, principal or athletic director. Competitions that are postponed for one calendar day or more, for reasons beyond the control of the participating school(s), or practices that cannot be held in these situations due to school policy shall be treated the same as competitions when there are consecutive days of competition in terms of the 1-pound allowance, with the exception of the required 48-hour notice.

Rule 4-4-4 covers the 2 lb allowance normally given after Christmas.

Rule 4-4-3 is interesting. ART. 3 . . . At anytime the use of sweat boxes; hot showers; whirlpools; rubber, vinyl and plastic-type suits; or similar artificial heating devices; diuretics; or other methods for quick weight reduction purposes is prohibited and shall disqualify an individual from competition.

So if I'm at the Y and see a kid in plastics entering the sauna and I tell the head official he could be DQd at weighins. (Hypothetically of course.)

Interesting, thanks for bringing this to light.

Thanks treynolds. One of my pet peaves these days. People start on a rant without doing any research or leg work on their own. Contrary to popular belief we aren't just making this stuff up as we go. Coaches need to get themselves better informed and parents should talk to their coaches if they have questions.

Thanks treynolds. One of my pet peaves these days. People start on a rant without doing any research or leg work on their own. Contrary to popular belief we aren't just making this stuff up as we go. Coaches need to get themselves better informed and parents should talk to their coaches if they have questions.

Ranger what is the reasoning for the 2lb allowance? I assume because the boys are growing, bodys changing.

Growth allowance. The powers that be that make the rules for scholastic wrestling determined that 2 lbs is needed for growth. States differ when the 2 lbs takes effect. Some it is Christmas while others is Jan 1st. Makes for some confusion when teams go to other states.

I'm not sure how the KHSAA or KSWA decides when we switch to the 2 lb allowance. I assume KSWA follows what KHSAA does but Ranger needs to answer that.

ART. 4 . . . A 2-pound growth allowance may be added to each weight class any time after the date of certification.

"Any time". It doesn't specify when or who makes the decision.

Reynolds, thanks for the info.

The date is sort of arbitrary but as a general rule dec 25 or jan 1 are what most use.

As for the growth allowance we have debated that for years in ms. Are coaches/kids using it for growth or to drop a weight class. I've seen both. The way I see it is kids will cut weight with or without the growth allowance. If the allowance allows a growing kid to remain at his weight and not have to cut late in the season then I'm good with a growth allowance.

I agree 100%. At their age, their body's are changing, therefore the growth allowance is necessary.

The date is sort of arbitrary but as a general rule dec 25 or jan 1 are what most use.

As for the growth allowance we have debated that for years in ms. Are coaches/kids using it for growth or to drop a weight class. I've seen both. The way I see it is kids will cut weight with or without the growth allowance. If the allowance allows a growing kid to remain at his weight and not have to cut late in the season then I'm good with a growth allowance.

Yep, it will just be a different kid cutting the weight.  The growth allowance is needed in middle school.  I've had kids that work hard, and have still grown out of their weight class even with the allowance.

It seems odd to use the KHSAA growth allowances but not use their certification program.  I know Ranger tried to get the state to agree to this a couple years ago, but didn't get enough votes.  No to certification but yes to "growth" allowances seems somewhat contradictory to me.  Can someone shed light on the thought process here?  I wasn't at the meetings, so I have no idea what the coaches had to say.

If a kid needs a few #'s to naturally grow, maybe coaches should recommend a higher weight class at the beginning of the season and/or accept jumping into a higher class.  From what I've seen, the weight allowances are being used to drop a class more than what they're designed to do, which is to allow cushion for growth.  W/out a certification program, I don't think we should have any allowances.  Scratch weight all year. 

It seems odd to use the KHSAA growth allowances but not use their certification program.  I know Ranger tried to get the state to agree to this a couple years ago, but didn't get enough votes.  No to certification but yes to "growth" allowances seems somewhat contradictory to me.  Can someone shed light on the thought process here?  I wasn't at the meetings, so I have no idea what the coaches had to say.

 

If a kid needs a few #'s to naturally grow, maybe coaches should recommend a higher weight class at the beginning of the season and/or accept jumping into a higher class.  From what I've seen, the weight allowances are being used to drop a class more than what they're designed to do, which is to allow cushion for growth.  W/out a certification program, I don't think we should have any allowances.  Scratch weight all year. 

As I remember it, most of the opposition came from the Club teams.  School affiliated teams, for the most part, were going to be able to piggyback with high school team to get the bodyfat testing done.  Club teams would have to secure testing on their own, which would likely mean even more costs for already extremely tight budgets.  

I don't know that we need to go all the way with bodyfat testing and descent plans.  I would like to see some sort of certification system, where a wrestler has to make a scratch weight in one (or several events) by a certain date (Maybe Christmas??) in order to be able to wrestle at that weight come postseason. Then the growth allowance becomes a legitimate allowance, rather than a way to drop a class in the post season.

As I remember it, most of the opposition came from the Club teams. School affiliated teams, for the most part, were going to be able to piggyback with high school team to get the bodyfat testing done. Club teams would have to secure testing on their own, which would likely mean even more costs for already extremely tight budgets.

I don't know that we need to go all the way with bodyfat testing and descent plans. I would like to see some sort of certification system, where a wrestler has to make a scratch weight in one (or several events) by a certain date (Maybe Christmas??) in order to be able to wrestle at that weight come postseason. Then the growth allowance becomes a legitimate allowance, rather than a way to drop a class in the post season.

I completely agree. It seems logical that a wrestler would have to make scratch weight at least 3 times prior to being able to qualify for the allowance. The vast majority of the kids using the allowance appear to be those dropping a class not those actually growing.

and round and round we go.

Kids are going to cut.  That's a given.  many of the kids won't cut is a healthy manner.  I'd rather they have less distance to go.

How does an allowance give them "less distance to go?"  I'd argue it promotes weight cutting.  The proof is there.  Most kids wrestle their natural weight UNTIL the allowance is given...then they drop. 

Been there and done that. The ms association used to have a system in place where you had to make it twice (I think) before you could use the growth allowance. But it wasn't considered very effective or efficient so it was voted out. Here are a couple problems I see with it:

1) paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. I bet 10% of the coaches forget their coaches cards for the event tomorrow. And we expect them to maintain weigh in sheets for 20+ kids all season.

2) just making weight for a weigh in means nothing. A kid could kill himself for a couple of worthless weeknight matches to meet the criteria and never step on the mat or compete at that weight.

3) also my understanding in the prior system was there was some concern that coach so-and-so has a buddy who is an official who signs off on a couple weigh in sheets so a kid can make it

4) it over complicates an already crazy day like state with a weigh in where different kids are allowed to weigh different amounts.

5) it does nothing to address the appropriateness of a kid wrestling a specific weight. The nationally agreed upon method for this is the body fat testing that is used virtual across the country at the high school level. I'm against doing anything just to do it. If we adopt a process it should have some tangible benefit.

Ultimately, the whole weight issue comes down to coaches and parents encouraging (really demanding) the appropriate behaviors. Any system out there can be beat pretty easily.

Let's enforce and follow the existing rules, minus the weight certification, which seems impractical at the MS level. Coaches need to know the rules and hold their team accountable.

Rule 4-4-3 . . . At anytime the use of sweat boxes; hot showers; whirlpools; rubber, vinyl and plastic-type suits; or similar artificial heating devices; diuretics; or other methods for quick weight reduction purposes is prohibited and shall disqualify an individual from competition.

The NCAA also prohibits heating a wrestling room above 79.

I was just out of college when the three guys died cutting weight. It was a much worse time for collegiate wrestling than the recent ordeal with the sport almost being removed from the Olympics.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011763/index.htm

The changes made by the NCAA and NFHS have helped. My favorite rule change was making the weighins 2 hours prior to competing rather than the day before competition.

I'm not sure we need to do much more other than to enforce the current rules.

I'm 100% in favor of body fat testing. Adopting a weight allowance from High School for MS doesn't make sense for a couple reasons. One, as mentioned, HS kids had the body fat test/hydration test. Two, the ratio is way off for the lighter weight classes. When you're dealing w/ 5 lb weight increments, we're pretty much tempting the kids/coaches/parents to drop.