As you have seen, the KHSAA has changed the time table to allow the finalists who have worked to get there to be the main show. They are going to have a one mat final. In order to make this happen, 3rd, 5th, and 7th will be wrestled on six mats. That means two weight classes at once. We as coaches need to flexible in allowing assistants to cover situations that may require a team to be on two mats at once. As fans and parents we need to be thankful that this is part of a solution to save time yet still have a one mat final.

Also, we as coaches, fans, and parents need to talk to our teams about the celebration prior to the finals and highly discourage it in any form. It has become a serious safety issue. People were hit with rolls of toilet paper, etc that lead to broken bones, etc. Many of the parents and coaches that wrote the KHSAA mentioned the one mat final used in the NCAA's and other states. One thing to remember, other states and the NCAA's do not have the chaos before the finals like we had in the past. As someone who sees it from the floor, it does get out of control and unsafe.

Again, the KHSAA is working with the KYWCA, parents, and fans. Please be flexible and help stop the "party" before the finals. Those are the main concerns the KHSAA had in the first place. Time and safety.

I am very thankful they were able to make this change for our sport. Let's show we appreciate it by helping with the two issues above.

Chris McCoy

KYWCA President

As a coach and a fan, thank you to everyone who helped make this happen.

Nice!! It's great to see everyone come together and get it done.

Thanks to all who made this happen for our wrestlers! That is who it is all about in the first place!

Great news!

Dumb question: What coach doesn't allow assistant coaches to coach when they have more than one  wrestler on the mat?

I can see the KHSAA's position with 1 mat finals, over half the gym gets bored usually teenagers and they start doing stupid stuff. Im all for 1 mat finals for the state tournament only.

Awesome news!  This show when a group of people band together good things can happen.  Now lets keep things safe and enjoy the state tournament!

Great News!! Now if we can get them to do anything bout the cheapo medals

Broken bones ?? Good there is one mat finals , but it's simply the way it should be to begin with and always has been so in reality the tournament is the same But KY loses the one thing that seperated it - the celebration !! Those beach balls and paper didn't kill anyone ,

Thank you for advocating for wrestling and ensuring the best for our children. Also, thank you for presenting the truth related to this issue by discussing the pre-finals problems. If that was one of the main reasons for the initial decision, then all stakeholders (athletes, parents, coaches, and fans) should have been told that from the beginning. We could have saved a lot of time and frustration by addressing that issue head-on.

At this time, it might be helpful to have tighter guidelines regarding what IS acceptable celebration. (What may seem suitable to some might not be for others. And I'd hate for us to disappoint those that rescinded the earlier decision. For example, is body paint okay? What about the beach balls? In a football stadium, they seem appropriate but maybe not so much in our smaller arena?)

Thank you again for all your hard work. I know it is a tiring responsibility with little appreciation.

Wohoo!!!

Finally some common sense from the KHSAA.

Thanks to all those that worked to get the finals back in the spot light!

I have to admit that I always felt like the toilet paper and spinning glow sticks were going to turn in to a problem. Regular toilet paper probably not a big deal but last year I saw industrial size rolls being thrown.... That's just not smart.

I still believe the celebration can be wild, but common sense on out part would go a long way.....!

Coach McCoy, I think it could be a good move to have repeated announcements made about safety concerns after the 3-8 placement matches.

Alright everyone, it's up to us at this point!!!

Have FUN and keep it SAFE!!!!!!!!!

Chris: Do you mind if I use this in a story for next week?

Congradulations to all fans,coaches,parents,and most of all wrestlers. Your efforts have paid off.

Who knows what dividends this will have in the future? will it show young people what can be achieved by comming together for a just cause? will it advance the sport and keep it growing? Will it cause the KHSAA

comission to be less obtrusive and more willing to work TOGETHER with our coaches to resolve issues?

I do not know all the possibilitys of what future ramifications this will cause, But I think whatever

outcome happens will be positive.

Dumb question: What coach doesn't allow assistant coaches to coach when they have more than one  wrestler on the mat?

As one who knows from experience;

There were many years in which I was the only coach on the team.   It makes it difficult to be on two mats at once.  (I believe Scott in NKy only has one coach).  What Ky needs to do is what I have seen in Ohio.  The referee makes sure there is a coach in the corner before they start each match. 

Overall;  Great to see the wrestling community come together.  This site was probably the main contributer to this.  I know many would not have known about this if not for this site.  (I for one would not hav known.)  Great to see that we were able to teach our wrestlers/kids how to get something done in a civilized way.  Using the correct avenues to get an injustice done.  Just one more reason why wrestling is such a great sport.  We were able to take a bad situation and get it changed. 

Finalists enjoy your moment, the state deserves it! I hope the final matches are great to watch this year and the entire crowd gets loud and into each match.

Thank you. We celebrate in a safe manner!

Thank you!  As a parent I can promise I will do everything I can to ensure the spectators from the team for which I am attached will act properly.

Body Paint is ok. Pom Poms are ok. I wouldn't bring anything to be thrown or hit around the arena. Let's keep it classy and safe.

okay coach we got ya lol

Love the atmosphere at the state tournament .

With the new timetable change, what time do you think the event will end Saturday night?

Well . . . Except for the really awkward face-offs, seems like the finals met everyone's expectations! Good for us!

Did anyone else notice the absence of the introduction of Commissioners Tacket and Barron last night?????

Broken bones ?? Good there is one mat finals , but it's simply the way it should be to begin with and always has been so in reality the tournament is the same But KY loses the one thing that seperated it - the celebration !! Those beach balls and paper didn't kill anyone ,

Completely agree. The atmosphere was very sad this year. This is the one thing that seperates wrestling from any other sport. Beach balls and tissue paper wont kill or break a bone, don't punish everyone else because of a few goofballs. Wrestlers work too hard for the sad intro and lack of enthusiasm that was received. The parents spend way too much time and money to not be able to celebrate the acomplishments of their wrestler and teams.

The face offs sucked plain and simple! Why did they mess with something that had previously worked. Let them jog out to middle, WTH?! They are tinkering with things that don't need fixing! No mention of Brock's 5X, no mention of D1 futures, c'mon man! Tackett and Barron....spineless. Should have announced them to let them hear how wrestling fans at large feel about them. Could have been highest decibel reading of the day!

On the video they tried very hard to highlight some kids some info was off but they got the point across , it would have been neat to hear them in the arena ,

Brock should have been celebrated as should Boston and Fausz and all the srs placing a bit more , everyone hates seeing them go .

Looking at the good points they did bring the finalists out and perhaps they thought having them stand out there so long was a good idea no harm trying something new and everyone got to see them ,

The music for each finals match was awesome it made it all good for me it pumped everyone up to see you kid out there getting ready to shake hands and hear Iron Man play before his state finals match , that's awesome , I will always remember it , and I will always remember that in the end even when my kids transferred khsaa although I am was mad they made them sit they let them wrestle at state , same as Frankrone , they did the right thing letting kids compete , and it benifitted the state and the kids had they made my boys set they would

Not have stayed in KY we did not come to leave as some do and myson would not be wrestling college in KY ATM wouldn't be a three xer and Austin and Tyler Frankrone wouldn't be state champs in KY and without bias I think they will

Be the best returning state champs next yr .

Bring back the celebration I say , it makes it wonderful for the little guys and amps everyone up my five yr old waits for it every yr and it's always on everyone's mind .

Not going to hate on khsaa for little medals or anything else anymore for now , it could always be worse , perhaps it's time to look at the glass half full rather than half empty , wrestlers are supposed to be tough quit crying

Great job KHSAA and thank you !!!!!

On another thing and it has nothing to do with Carr because to me he's a ky native basically , I wouldn't let any 8th grade move ins wrestle HS in my ever again , only wrestlers from KY who wrestled as seventh graders in KY or the previous yr should be able to step on the mat in KY HS wrestling a kid coming and going insults the state to me ,

Now if Carr leaves I would have to change my mind on him , hate to see him go seemed like the happiest kid in the room never noticed him not smiling one time , the kid lit up the arena with joy !!!

Tarzan: On another thing and it has nothing to do with Carr because to me he's a ky native basically , I wouldn't let any 8th grade move ins wrestle HS in my ever again , only wrestlers from KY who wrestled as seventh graders in KY or the previous yr should be able to step on the mat in KY HS wrestling a kid coming and going insults the state to me

What would you do for Fort Knox, or Fort Campbell or any of those schools surrounding the military posts? They have kids move in and out every year.

That's military , they get a pass of course , it's not like their parents join the military so their kids can wrestle as youth in KY lol and if they are that into the sport then heck with it let their kids wrestle lol

They had some

Good kids at state

I agree with tarzan on this, ky being used as a 1 year experience booster for other states is crap. somehow someway we need to stop this from happening.

I would like to see the names of the coaches on the committee that advise the khsaa. There are to many different stories being told as to why this why that cannot happen.......

Second, first day, kids that win two matches are done and wrestle backs last till 10 o clock at night. Put down 10 mats, do quarters then run through wrestle backs and get out earlier so the kids can get some rest for the next day. KHSAA, listen closely cause we know ya don't listen very good! We could get out earlier both days and the finals format would never come up!!

Advisory Committee:

R.B.Mays, Graves County,Central Office Administrator, 2017
Bob Davis, Meade County,Coach, 2016 
Alan Martin, DeSales, Coach, 2014
Che Founder, Central, Coach, 2015
Aaron Riordan, Oldham County, Coach, 2015
Tim Ruschell, Ryle, Coach, 2017
Andy Critchfield, Henry Clay, Coach, 2016
Philip Dettwiller, Montgomery County, Coach, 2017
Chris Shaw, Official, Louisville, 2017
Chris McCoy, Male, Coach 2016
Joe Ruddell, Tates Creek, Athletic Director, 2014
Scott Hawkins, Woodford County Superintendent, Board of Control Representative
Scott Greenwald, Tournament Staff (ex-officio)
Jimmy Shaw, Official (ex-officio)

I agree with tarzan on this, ky being used as a 1 year experience booster for other states is crap. somehow someway we need to stop this from happening.

I don't like it either, but I'm not sure how you can stop it from happening.  The super talented 8th grader coming in and winning state is the exception rather than the rule.  The only way to really stop it is to not allow 8th graders to wrestle high school at all.  And I like that idea,  even less.

     The only way to stop the 8th grader move in, is from the head coach.  Each team's head coach can decide who will represent thier team.  I know on many occations where coaches either appoint thier line-up (no wrestle offs).  Or don't allow the winner of the wrestle off to represent the team.

     If an 8th grader moves into the district then the head coach could tell them that they must wrestle on the middle school team and not the high school team.  The question is how many coaches have the Kahuna's to do this?

The single year, 8th grade, move-in cheapens Kentucky wrestling.

The single year, 8th grade, move-in cheapens Kentucky wrestling. Wouldn't that raise the level of competition in that weight class?

The single year, 8th grade, move-in cheapens Kentucky wrestling. Wouldn't that raise the level of competition in that weight class?

Yes, the level of competition in that weight class would be raised for THAT SEASON...but at what long-term costs?  Do we really want our State Tournament to turn into nothing more than a Proving Ground for talented 8th graders from surrounding states?  Instead of bringing in these talented 12-13 years olds in exchange for team points, why not focus on developing kids who plan on graduating from a Kentucky High School?  When the single year 8th grader competes in Kentucky, he is not a Kentucky wrestler...he is temporary Indiana or Ohio transplant.  And when his time is done, he returns to his state to become a wrestler who contributes to the level of wrestling in his state.  Let's allow Indiana and Ohio to develop their own talent! 

As a result, Kentucky becomes a "Practice" state for parents willing to move their families for some hardware and for the coaches willing to receive their services.  A single year of service may yield a hollow State Championship for a team, but how does it contribute to the growth and development of Kentucky wrestling, and wrestlers, long-term?  Our championship is called the KENTUCKY State Wrestling Championships...not the "Kentucky State and Talented Eight Graders from Surround States State Championships."   I understand that some will disagree...but this is my perspective.

Yes, the level of competition in that weight class would be raised for THAT SEASON...but at what long-term costs?  Do we really want our State Tournament to turn into nothing more than a Proving Ground for talented 8th graders from surrounding states?  Instead of bringing in these talented 12-13 years olds in exchange for team points, why not focus on developing kids who plan on graduating from a Kentucky High School?  When the single year 8th grader competes in Kentucky, he is not a Kentucky wrestler...he is temporary Indiana or Ohio transplant.  And when his time is done, he returns to his state to become a wrestler who contributes to the level of wrestling in his state.  Let's allow Indiana and Ohio to develop their own talent! 

 

As a result, Kentucky becomes a "Practice" state for parents willing to move their families for some hardware and for the coaches willing to receive their services.  A single year of service may yield a hollow State Championship for a team, but how does it contribute to the growth and development of Kentucky wrestling, and wrestlers, long-term?  Our championship is called the KENTUCKY State Wrestling Championships...not the "Kentucky State and Talented Eight Graders from Surround States State Championships."   I understand that some will disagree...but this is my perspective.

Let's assume David Carr doesn't come back.  Wouldn't all of his teammates have benefited from having such a phenomenal practice partner this year?  What about the in-state kids he got to wrestle, wouldn't they have benefited from a tough match?

At youth state, I also heard three different coaches using his state performance as an example for their kids on what hard work can do for you.

Furthermore, there were a few wrestlers I saw at the youth tournament who wrestled in state but no other current wrestler was as engaged as he was --- and to have wrestled in the finals nonetheless.

Ok, I have sat back and waited to weigh in on this. As a former wrestler that competed on the high school level as a 7th grader, to take away the right of a a middle school wrestler wrestling up stinks. If we do that, we truly need to go back to a 16 man State Tournament. Without middle school kids, we probably couldn't fill all of the brackets. Further more, if KY doesn't like middle school "transplants" moving in and winning our State championship, they had better step up and do something about it. Honestly, Carr is the only one that it has worked out for. The Lawson's and Mark Hall got sent home packing, just like they deserved. Carr from what I know, came down here and earned it. When you beat a defending State champ with national high school and D1 credentials by points, and not a pin, that's not a fluke. The kid earned it. And really, who knows about Carr? Maybe his Dad will be so happy with the education and instruction that he has received, that he will allow David to stay.

Let's assume David Carr doesn't come back.  Wouldn't all of his teammates have benefited from having such a phenomenal practice partner this year?  What about the in-state kids he got to wrestle, wouldn't they have benefited from a tough match?

 

At youth state, I also heard three different coaches using his state performance as an example for their kids on what hard work can do for you.

 

Furthermore, there were a few wrestlers I saw at the youth tournament who wrestled in state but no other current wrestler was as engaged as he was --- and to have wrestled in the finals nonetheless.

 

I have never met David Carr and know nothing about the details of his situation, but for the sake or our discussion, let's assume he is a one year resident.  I don't, however, want anyone to mistake my disapproval of a practice for an attack on a child.  My comments have nothing to do with any one person, it is the concept I am discussing.  There is a huge difference.

To answer your questions...  

I'm sure the kids in his wrestling room benefited from his presence for ONE year, but why not train an athlete who actually plans on living in the state longer than a season for them to practice against?  And what about the Kentucky wrestler who missed out on a year of Varsity experience, Varsity level matches, and the experience/pressure of wrestling at the State Championships?  His growth in those areas will have to wait another year, but the move-in will take his experiences in Kentucky back to his state to compete.

Concerning the athletes who participated against him in meets...tough matches are not that difficult to find during the course of a year.  I am certain there are Kentucky wrestlers who can offer some competition as well as out of state wrestlers who actually stay out of state.

I can see where this young man was used as an example by youth coaches, but if he were not in the state, don't you think there would be other Kentucky wrestlers that these coaches could have used as an example?  Of course there are.

Finally, I'm sure an out-of-state 8th grader can be quite engaging, but I don't think there will be a void of social interaction if these one year athletes are not allowed to participate.  There are quite a few engaging Kentucky wrestlers as well.

Ok, I have sat back and waited to weigh in on this. As a former wrestler that competed on the high school level as a 7th grader, to take away the right of a a middle school wrestler wrestling up stinks. If we do that, we truly need to go back to a 16 man State Tournament. Without middle school kids, we probably couldn't fill all of the brackets. Further more, if KY doesn't like middle school "transplants" moving in and winning our State championship, they had better step up and do something about it. Honestly, Carr is the only one that it has worked out for. The Lawson's and Mark Hall got sent home packing, just like they deserved. Carr from what I know, came down here and earned it. When you beat a defending State champ with national high school and D1 credentials by points, and not a pin, that's not a fluke. The kid earned it. And really, who knows about Carr? Maybe his Dad will be so happy with the education and instruction that he has received, that he will allow David to stay.

I couldn't agree more IWIN, but it seems we need to step up by training our own athletes to win championships rather than importing a rental for one year.   

Great point 8798. KY wrestling is definitely on the up swing. But unfortunately, until we can "scare" off other states' future champs, we have work to do. And let's not make this a David Carr thread. As it is, it is easy to use him as an example, but like you said, we don't know him or his family's situation. The best thing we can do as coaches, fathers, families, mentors is to continue to build on the success that we are currently having. It's all good to have rivalry within in our state, but we have to come together as a whole to gain the respect of our neighbors and the rest of the nation.

Well put IWIN...well put...