Well Dutch and I finally pulled it together.  First time through, so take it for what it's worth, our opinion.

 

Overall

1. Austin Myers (senior)- 3x KY State Champion, NHSCA Freshman & Sophomore Champ, Junior runner-up; most would agree Austin is the best big guy to ever compete in our state
2. Bryce Sheffer (sophomore) – 1x KY State Champion, 2x KY State placer, 4x MS State Champion; kid is a winner, when all the chips are on the table all he does is get the job done
3. Dominic Lampe (senior) - 1x KY State Champion, 2x KY State finalist, 3x KY State placer
4. Johnny Meiman (junior) – 1x KY State Champion, 2x KY State placer
5. Jorge Vega (senior) – 1x KY State Champion, 2x KY State placer
6. Tyler Frankrone (junior) – 1x KY State Champion
7. Tucker Hurst (senior) – 1x KY State Champion
8. Caleb Austin (senior) – 1x KY State finalist, 3x KY State placer
9. Landon Young (junior) - 1x KY State finalist, 2x KY State placer
10. Eli Matthews (senior) - 1x KY State finalist, 2x KY State placer

 

 

Freshman (not ordered, considered based primarily on MS accomplishments)

Saul Ervin- MS state champ, 3x MS state placer, HS regional champ, HS state placer

Mason Smith-MS state champ, 3x MS state placer, HS regional champ, HS state placer, 2x MS National Duals AA, Philo placer

Trent Johnson-MS state champ, 3x MS state placer, HS state placer, MS National Duals AA

Ryan Moore- 2x MS state champ, 4x MS placer, 2x TOC placer, 2x MS National Duals AA, Philo placer

Blake Roth- 2x MS state champ, 4x MS placer, 2x TOC placer, MS National Duals AA

Tylan Tucker- MS state champ, 2x MS state placer, TOC champ, 2x MS National Duals AA

Blake Gamble-1x MS state champ, 2x MS state placer

Adam Bender-1x MS state champ, MS National Duals AA

Dylan Gray-1x MS state champ, 2x MS state placer

Konner Kraeszig – 3x MS state finalist

 

 

Sophmore (not ordered)

Bryce Sheffer- 2x HS regional champ, 2x HS state placer, HS state champ

Casey Cornett- HS regional champ, HS state placer

Max Andreoni-HS regional champ, HS state placer, VA Beach runner-up

Brady Wells-HS regional champ, HS state placer

Clayton Hanson- HS state placer

Joey Roberts- HS state placer

Jared Branch-HS state placer

Dallas Miles-HS state placer

Austin Cook-HS state placer

Bryan Holden-HS state placer

 

Junior (not ordered)

Logan Erdman – HS state placer

Johnny Meiman - 2x HS state placer, HS state champ

Tucker Hurst – HS state champ

Tyler Frankone – HS state champ

Landon Young - 2x HS state placer

Keegan Duncan - 3x HS state placer

Hudson Heidorf - HS state placer

AJ Bindner - 2x HS state placer

Angel Vasquez - 2x HS state placer

Brady Emerson - 3x HS state placer

 

 

Senior (not ordered)

Austin Myers – 3x HS state champ

Dominic Lampe - 3x HS state placer, HS state champ

Eli Matthews - 2x HS state placer

Jorge Vega - 2x HS state placer, HS state champ

Caleb Austin - 3x HS state placer

Jon Green - 2x HS state placer

Bobby Poynter - 2x HS state placer

Mikey Smith - 2x HS state placer

Elijah Owens - 3x HS state placer

Elijah Miller - 2x HS state placer

Cool stuff im sure some have a ton more accolades that are as noteworthy or more so than some of the accomplishments that have been pointed out on some wrestlers.

After seeing many of the kids mentioned and their performance in bigger tournaments in and out of state .I would say Andreoni a national runner up who should have been nat Champ would make that p4p top 10 easily .Not knocking anyone but most on the list would be pushed to place at NHSCA let alone make finals .I would have Andreoni middle of the top 10.P4p upper middle .and a Nat runner up makes him # 1 soph in my line of Thinking and probably on any Nat ranking not saying that is a perfect way of looking at it but some would particularly those outside KY looking in.

Just a couple thoughts to keep in mind. These are not individual weight class rankings where we essentially make predictions on how we think the kids will finish at the state tournament. It is accomplishment and accolade driven. With that there are some situations that leave room for opinion. I'm sure we have missed some accomplishments for a few kids. Let us know. Note this is a much less decorated group then we have become accustomed to watching (Boston, Ervin, Fausz, etc). There is a ton of talent; just not the volume of results to prove who belongs where.

I guess I am confused.  I would think P4P would mean the toughest in any weight.  I would think winning a state title would definitely be important but winning a title in one weight class might not be as tough as winning it in another, though I believe that would be one very important criteria.  I think other factors come into play...National experience, dominance, who have you beat and so forth. 

Yes but rather than just imagine who would win between Austin and Bryce the primary driver is accomplishments. And with limited national placements among this group state titles are a significant criteria (even at the lighter weights).

I agree some weights are different and Natio al experience would be a better gauge thus my stance with Andrioni and I could write volumes on accomplishments few in the country could match when talking about a certain incoming sr .I would say this is a much more Decorated Group or at least the one at the top and the others still have time Andrioni Scheffer ERVIN Smith and the rest.and add some Decor to the list Ky has a new Greco AA .

Austin would beat Two Bryces at once thus hes Lb for Lb champ .

or do you look for nat wins like Tulsa championships In youth Golds at nat duals in Iowa or other big tourneys Like Philo all of places a kid like Austin has won and a lot more .Why mention jr high accomplishments for some and not others or even at all when talking HS .Not sure why your knocking this crop ot saying the caliber is not up to par .perhaps not the same could be said about the crop the yr before when Brock Austin Cooper Stephen were all there or the yr before the same Plus Fahy .Regardless I will defend this crop lol none before have Austins record or accomplishments and none of the best before had his disadvantages everyone mentioned had better parrners than he had had and more comp .Still say Andreoni Erdman and the others will carry the torch .take away Boston last yr and Erdmans probably a top ten lb for lb guy .

I could ask a lot of ? or make a ton of statements but its all individual Preference .srs last yr were tough as a group so were the yrs before that this yrs top sr will never be topped no one will do what he has done with what he had to go on or work with sad as well he gave to his teamamtes and when he needed them they ditched him sinclair last yr before nat and even Grazzi this yr before Fargo yeah it ticks a person off .

Cool stuff Ranger its lb for lb guesstimations everyone should simply do their own as well and compare a cool thread to start.

Keegan Duncan 3X HS placer, 2X NHSCA AA

Hudson Heidorf  2X HS placer, 2X NHSCA AA, 7-0 HS Team Duals

 

I thought these were significant significant and needed to be recognized and an example of what I'm talking about.  Tough to be stuck in the same weight class as Ervin for 2 years. 

omit one "significant"....still waking up:)

To me these 2 examples are more impressive than a HS State Champ that hasn't really accomplished anything out of state and on a National level.  No offense to them, I just think these would be 2 would be guys I would put ahead of some listed.

Yes Heidorf for certain ,probably a top 10 kid,He has had success in big tourneys more so than many up there.

Logan Erdman 3X MS State Finalist, 2X MS State Champ, Tulsa AA, Winter Nat AA, MS Nat Duals AA, Wrested 2 tourneys Freshman year. 57-6 mostly in Ohio beating several top wrestlers in Ohio, State Runner Up (Boston loss), 5-2 HS State Duals,  TOC top 3.

Andreoni- also either won or placed very high at TOC as well as doing very well at HS National duals.

Hurst- won TOC this year.

I do not want to knock anyone because everyone mentioned is a great athlete but when talking LB for Lb Young probably wodnt make the list of top tens over Andrioni Edrman Heidorf or some others .Big impressive athlete but outside of KY what has he done I have not seen him at any nationals and he hasnt won State and seemed to take a step backwards this yr ,I know his first sport is football and thats great but you cant use that in a wrestling P4p .The Dixie hvy pinned through state as a hvy I would have him in there before Young no knocks im a fan of Youngs but its body of work as they say ??I know Erdman so I may be Bias a bit but he will prove himself I am guessing his short yr two yrs ago lingers on memory perhaps making people doubt his capabilities but currently he seems more out to be tested and improve more than almost anyone on the list .In other words he came back hard took second at state behind Boston and is a first yr jr in Fargo where few on that top 10 list would dare go.even last yrs big 3 set this one out .There I said it lol

Good feedback both publicly and privately. As I mentioned initially this was our first attempt and we will only improve going forward. We need to dig into a few results to make sure we get everything possible on these kids. FYI, we haven't been keeping track of every kid every time they step on a mat the last 5 years. As I usually say, for those who think we totally screwed this up knock yourself out. I'll even pay you double what I get.

Keep the stats coming. The idea was to get the state talking about kids. Hopefully we can get more input to make the overall list more accurate.

It seems like everyone seems happy with the kids on the class rankings. I guess the overall is the list that is in question. I figured it would cause some debate that's why the class list was in no order.

As far as the overall it was based on past accomplishments. The freshman list was mainly based on middle school accomplishments which at this point is the only thing the incoming freshman have.

Continue sending updates and accomplishments in order to put the best possible list together. I know the overall is tough to do. There are kids that aren't at the top that in my opinion will dominate this year.

This is the first time I have been asked to help with making a list. So don't bash me or my kid just yet. It's a work in progress.

Finally it's awesome that the state has so many tough kids that we can add to the p4p list.

At least some of the state is talking about wrestling. That's a good thing.

Come on Chris, you know none of the 3 are afraid of anything or anyone.  Can't speak for 2 of them, but the choice of 1 was a month+ of practice in a college room or Fargo.  Even though he loves FS, he chose to move on to the next level.  Felt it was and is more beneficial than a week in Fargo.  Nothing left to prove at this point except his goals for the future.  Congrats on Greco and good luck with FS!  I look for a different order of finish in 3 days!

Well I never said anyone was afraid .one doesnt like FR GR thats a fact another was injured at Reg .I figured they might be playing it safe or didnt want to go and I figured another didnt want to Bother .A week in Fargo is better than a week at any college practice that could be made up anytime between Fargo and a new yr and I have heard kids say for yrs their college coaches want them not to go But I have never talked to one coach who didnt want them to GO .Plenty of Kids in Fargo Jrs who will be in college next yr ,its all up to the Individual ,Tried to get my son to go his sr yr he knew what it takes to do good there and that he was behind in that sport now one is there and im pretty sure he will be back Next yr as he is seeing those who win there at least in his class are the older kids .Seriously with the lack of success at this Tournament I would think kids would step up and Represent if they could go ,meaning everyone Ky may be behind but the only way to get ahead is make that step and get ahead .

You're right, any good coach will leave it up to the wrestler.  It was his choice...his coaches supported either decision.  However, I will have to disagree with you on being in a college room 4-5 days a week for over a month not being more beneficial plus being able to get adjusted to being 8 hours away from home on your own for the first time before classes start.  That said, I love Fargo and would have liked another go.  He did his part, represented in Fargo for 3 years when few others went, and on a world team.  Now it's time for others to step up.  You did kind of call them out...you're right you didn't say afraid but where you placed it sure seemed to imply it.

I agree its up to the wrestlers But Fargo in the Jr div is just a step below college level wrestling actually loaded with who will b the best college wrestlers .Some may have reasons but still its only a week of wrestling .A world cadet team member is fantastic a chance to represent your state at that level is fantastic .Another chance to do it at Fargo I wouldnt miss it .A kid having not done a single match in those styles in three yrs going to represent knowing he is at a huge disadvantage while most set at home protecting rank and pride is tylical in this sport .Of course a lot of people advise someone to avoid an almost inevitable loss much more honorable to chase destiny and not hide behind past deeds .

Obviously all naysayers have been and will be silenced by the obvious .

looking forward to ATM and his MTA .

Just shows how much of a beast ATM is and will be in those styles!  Good luck and I'm pretty confident CC will have 3 Jr AA's in the last 2 years shortly!  Get it done!

Thanks Go Wolfpack.

where was the etc contingent in Fargo ??????

By the way, nice pic.  ATM looks good in red...now that singlet just needs a wolf on the front!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Can you see ATM after wrestling with Gwiz everyday???????

he would probably get splattered but yeah it would be a big plus a national champ and a HS state Champ teammate lol .

To me these 2 examples are more impressive than a HS State Champ that hasn't really accomplished anything out of state and on a National level. No offense to them, I just think these would be 2 would be guys I would put ahead of some listed.

I have to agree with you that Kentucky is an odd state when it comes to ranking people based on records and accomplishments. This is a tough job and I give anyone who tries credit. I think the reason it's difficult is the diversity in the schedules of teams in this state. There are only a handful of teams that make an effort to travel and find tougher competition. I understand that it's easier for regions on the borders like Northern KY to attend bigger tournaments simply due to location. Teams in cities such as Louisville and Lexington have to drive longer which means more funds and time. I have noticed over the years the bigger private schools such as St. X, Trinity have been working to toughen up their schedule. Within the last couple years more public schools such as Moore, Walton Verona and Ryle have made an effort to challenge themselves by attending multiple Ohio and Indiana tournaments. It's no secret that the teams making this effort are showing the most growth in the state. Teams with tougher schedules often bring kids into the state tournament with double digit losses while another wrestler may by 42-3 but hasn't wrestled nearly anyone tough. That's why rankings are tough to do.

Also, many students that attend these bigger schools have the parietal support and $ to travel to camps and off season tournaments such as Fargo. That support goes along way when it comes to improving in the off season. Each year the cost goes up which hinders the development of less privileged kids.

Also, many students that attend these bigger schools have the parietal support and $ to travel to camps and off season tournaments such as Fargo. That support goes along way when it comes to improving in the off season. Each year the cost goes up which hinders the development of less privileged kids.

This is very true Wtbgg

 

However that does not mean that you give up.  Those of us in those less privileged schools have to work harder to get those kids and PARENTS interested in wrestling and find ways to get them to camps, summer tourneys and such.

 

I've been on both sides of the coin.  16 years in a big school and 13 years in the less privileged school.  The big difference is the parent support and the Comorodory (sp) (to lazy to look up the correct spelling) of the parents and kids.  In the big schools/programs you work for a good season every year.  In the small school/programs you work for a good season every 3 or 4 years.  You focus more on the individual accomplishments than on the team itself. 

 

Seeing a kid go from 0-20 because he started his freshman year and was thrown into a varsity lineup to seeing that same individual win 20+ matches and qualifying for state a couple of years later is as great a feeling as seeing a kid you have had for 6+ years win a state title.

 

The one great thing I have found out (at least here in Nky) is that the coaches and supporters of other teams help out when they can for us smaller programs.  Many of my kids have received free or lower costs to camps, tourneys and the such.  It proves that wrestling is a family no matter what school you are from.  Throwing a little respect to some of those less privileged kids go a long way.  Many of them have few people who show them the attention or respect that many of the others get. 

 

Thanks to all that take a little time to help or acknowledge the little guys out there trying there best.

I have found there are always those who help those kids who need it IF that kid is going the extra mile on his own .

Theres more than one way to excell theres always more a kid can do on his own .

The poor wo is me attitude breeds failure the im going to win no matter what or whatvi have to work with Breeds success .

Quit crying and start working and winning .I see kids run with rocks sprint hills do hundreds of standups a day by themselves .Spend hundreds of hrs in gyms because that is the only way to win .

If there is a will there is a way at least to reach levels considered successful .

Most if us would help any kid im any way we could .Much thanks to all those that do .

I have found there are always those who help those kids who need it IF that kid is going the extra mile on his own .

Theres more than one way to excell theres always more a kid can do on his own .

The poor wo is me attitude breeds failure the im going to win no matter what or whatvi have to work with Breeds success .

Quit crying and start working and winning .I see kids run with rocks sprint hills do hundreds of standups a day by themselves .Spend hundreds of hrs in gyms because that is the only way to win .

If there is a will there is a way at least to reach levels considered successful .

Most if us would help any kid im any way we could .Much thanks to all those that do .

I understand that coming from a poor home life doesn't mean you can't succeed and win but it makes the task 10x harder. That is the point I am trying to make. Many people on this forum stress the importance of showing up at big events like Super 32 and Fargo but that's easier said than done. Having to fundraise every time you want to attend something can be mentally and physically exhausting for a teenager. Tyr, your sons have had great success but how many camps, clubs, tournaments have they attended over the years? They also have the advantage of having you as a father. A father who cares as much as you and shows them constant support is an awesome tool to have. Would your boys be as great without you or all the additional camps and clubs? Maybe... Maybe not? You should be very proud of them and their accomplishments.

Being 14-18 years old and working after school to help support the family, pay rent, and buy food takes away from a lot of training time. Than the driving factor can also hurt progression. Finding a ride to and from isn't always easy. I know teams who take city buses together but the routes only go so far.

Thats all true but nothing is as dangerous as a deafeatist attittude and nothing is as good for winning as an attitude of I CAN.

My sons have had a ton if coaching training and camps clubs and whatever .

When we came back To Ky people expected them to fail maybe they did at times but it had to do with other issues as well .

Everyone cannot have a huge win record or do tons of tourneys for various reasons .like Super 32 no football player can make it making it ovetated anyway but thats my point.

I just saw a kid who was far removed from two different syles who has absoluty no one to push him in a room although he does have a room with great coaches .He took it on himself to hit other aspects if the sport training in the gym cardio running Bleachers .etc there are ither ways to win .

He did not listen to the many who said he couldnt he listened the few and himself who said he could ,Now He DID .

I know very little kids that were as poor as me when I was growing up but I achieved my goals on my own and anyone can if they want it bad enough .

anyone can if they want it bad enough .

That hits the nail on the head.  If you want it bad enough. 

 

Where does that mentality come from?  Very few have that attitude by themselves.  It was tought to them by thier parent/guardian.  When sports or at least the sport of wrestling is far far down that list of importance it is hard to get those individuals to "want it bad enough".  It makes it even harder when that parent/guardian does not attend or even want that individual to wrestle.  How many kids do you see that are successful that do NOT have their parents/guardian or even a sibling attend every meet or at least the majority of them?  Heck I've seen more than my share of wrestlers that NEVER had thier parents see them wrestle.   

 

My point and I think Wtbgg's is that success does not have to be guaged just by being the best or one of the best. It can be guaged by other accomplishments as well.  It's not a defeatist attitude when you celebrate a kid just qualifying for the state touney or making it thier goal. 

 

Not everyone has supporters like yourself that give up so much to see their kids succeed in a sport.  That is the true makup of a great program is getting parents involved and supporting the team or at least their own kids. 

 

Once again thanks to all that open up and allow some of those kids with less support into your supporting world.  Even a little bit of support for many of those kids go a long way. 

Again not necessarily true I push and support and teach what little I know some kids /most do not have that but I was a sta te Champ in a couple sports and never even had a ride to train or practice and it was yr round at least five days a week ,lol I walked Miles back and forth every day to train and had a father who didnt care squat about sports whatsoever .Kids need to know what it takes and that it can be done they do not need excuses and more reasons for doubt or Grown ups making those excuses for them .I am legally handicapped my arm only moves about 35 degrees at the elbow and my shoulders both need replaced and have less than 60 percent movement and I can out train most HS kids the only person who can stop someone is themselves its just patience and time and guts and confidence and Will and Desire .All it takes is one person who a kid believes in to say YOU can do it and no one believes a Doubter .Many at the top like to make those not there think its unatainable but its not money time or even coaches do not make champions all the time there are anomolies that say I WILL WIN no matter what or who likes it or where im from .My whole

life I heard you cannot beat people from over there and my whole life I stomped them

So did my Sons .So can anyone else who says I will.

I have to agree with you that Kentucky is an odd state when it comes to ranking people based on records and accomplishments. This is a tough job and I give anyone who tries credit. I think the reason it's difficult is the diversity in the schedules of teams in this state. There are only a handful of teams that make an effort to travel and find tougher competition. I understand that it's easier for regions on the borders like Northern KY to attend bigger tournaments simply due to location. Teams in cities such as Louisville and Lexington have to drive longer which means more funds and time. I have noticed over the years the bigger private schools such as St. X, Trinity have been working to toughen up their schedule. Within the last couple years more public schools such as Moore, Walton Verona and Ryle have made an effort to challenge themselves by attending multiple Ohio and Indiana tournaments. It's no secret that the teams making this effort are showing the most growth in the state. Teams with tougher schedules often bring kids into the state tournament with double digit losses while another wrestler may by 42-3 but hasn't wrestled nearly anyone tough. That's why rankings are tough to do.

Also, many students that attend these bigger schools have the parietal support and $ to travel to camps and off season tournaments such as Fargo. That support goes along way when it comes to improving in the off season. Each year the cost goes up which hinders the development of less privileged kids.

I have to disagree that bigger schools have an advantage.  I know that Walton Verona and Union County are very small schools in comparison to some of the large schools in the state.  I don't think that funding is an excuse for not working to accomplish goals in what ever sport kids participate in.  Tyr made a good point that if a kid wants it bad enough he can make it happen.

 

Just because a kid goes to 10 camps a year doesn't mean he has an advantage or is going to be better than everyone else.  I see kids all the time that go to camps all over and don't seem to progress.  They end up just going through the motions on the mat.  Then the parent or kid can talk about all the places they have been.

 

There is no substitute for hard work and determination.  I think it is about instilling values and beliefs in kids to succeed.  Also surrounding the kids with other kids who have the same goals and work ethic.  We have been fortunate enough to be around other kids and parents who are willing to work together to put these kids in the best position to grow.  We have a small facility to train in that was made possible with the work and help of others.  From fund raising, donations, etc.  

 

I am not going to disagree that if you took that same determined kids and had a endless supply of funding you could do more.  I just think that you work with what you have and be grateful for the opportunities.  There are so many kids, parents, and coaches that are willing to help kids no matter what team or school a family is a part of. 

 

The last point would be getting kids to believe in themselves.  Not making excuses but setting realistic goals.  This could be as simple as a weight they want to lift, a distance they want to run, a tournament they want to win, or even another wrestler they want to beat.  Then reminding them of their goals and helping them obtain them.  Beating a kid down and telling him he can't do that or he will never beat that kid is wrong.  instead getting them to believe that anything is possible if they are willing to work.  If parents and coaches don't believe, how will the kid ever believe?

I think what I am trying to say is that there are some kids coming from smaller programs that have the same drive as the top kids in the state but due to lack of resources don't get the same experience and opportunities as the top kids. For example, funding for hotels and travel to bigger tournaments is something the wrestler can't control.   He is forced to wrestle the schedule his school approves.  Why are all the top teams at the bigger tournaments like Ryle, and Dragon? Then look at the out of state tournaments in Cincinnati and Dayton only a few KY schools attend. Why? Because they can afford to travel and attend. Some of the smaller programs ask to attend these tournaments but their A.D. or principal doesn't approve the event due to lack of funds. Just look at the state tournaments and see which schools show up in nice buses with team coolers then which ones pile into cars with a few parents with no team supplies.  You wanna tell me Union County having the funds to bus all those fans to the arena doesn't motivate their wrestlers?  This is life, some families got it...some don't, but to say its not an advantage is crazy.  To agree with bulldog success is judged differently with each program and individual. Some wrestlers may reach their goals and overcome these obstacles but may not be standing on the podium in late February.  The climb to the top is much harder if you don't have parent support and resources. Especially in the sport like wrestling where the more rooms your in wrestling different people the sharper your skills get.  Tyr, you have been on this forum for years bragging about how you trained and pushed your kids every step of the way.  I applauded your efforts and you have done a tremendous job with your boys but don't you think you have been their strongest asset? They have had constant support and motivation from you on their way to top. With that support comes rides, money, training help, an understanding of weight cutting, etc. That knowledge can't be substituted regardless how determined one is.  Can that knowledge be made up in different ways through hard work, yes it can. But that requires additional time and money resources many of these kids don't have.       

Advantages yes But I have seen kids with the same accomplish basically nothing and others with far less do very well .

And thank you for the best of Compliments .

I think what Dutch and Myself are trying to say is it begins with attitude and positive Vibes/attitudes .My kids have advantages ,I did not I achieved nothing compared to them but I did Achieve all my goals as a youth .

My sons came home one day and said we want to wrestler they had the initial drive I simply did all I could to help them and made sure they knew they could beat anyone or be as good or better than anyone even someone who was from a place that was known for Champs and it was that positive attitude that led them to success and actually do things no other youths from their area ever did in the sport I said you can beat everyone up north if you work harder ,they did, I said you can be the first ever sixth grade district champ they bothh were .

I said you can do both state tournaments youth and jr high on the same week and do well and Steph did still the only kid in ohio history to accomplish that .

I never let them listen nor did I ever listen to those who knocked or doubted me as a coach trainer or whatever for lack of wrestling experience .

Dutch is right there are people who will help any kid they see working their butt of and heres a secret once a kid actually ups his game Everyone wants to help him as long as hes a good kid its a snowball effect .

Not beating a dead horse but if Austin listened to almost everyone he would not have pulled of what I consider the most insane run ever this summer I doubt there was more than a few people who would have guessed he would go to regionals and come back to KY with 2 ows or go on to Fargo and be the only Kid to Double in his class .That was 3 x ky champ with tons of experience yet still far removed from those styles he believed .Nothing is stronger than the mind and there is more than one road to the top you do not have to follow the beaten path .

I could take some of the poor kids with desire and work with them for a week and give them tools that would launch them far ahead of many who have far more advantages than them IF they believed and would not listen to Doubters .Negativity is a poison Positivity combined with intense work and desire cannot be bought or even instilled in some kids .

In truth having a brother close to your age who wrestles as well is the biggest advantage in The sport of wrestling .Steibers Palmers Brands Coopers And yes the Dixons from Okl Lampes .Other than that I think its all up to the undividual .

sometimes the struggle to overcome disadvantages is The greatest advantage Survival of the fittest what does not kill you makes you stronger .As my sons pinned some of the fanciest well trained most feared youth wrestlers in seconds in and around the sixth grade in national tournaments and stunned people in Cincy it all became clear you outwork someone and you can beat them even if your work is considered crude or underated by most .

I could take some of the poor kids with desire and work with them for a week and give them tools that would launch them far ahead of many who have far more advantages than them

Thats the easy part.  Getting those kids to the point where they have the desire is the hard part.

 

I don't believe we are saying different things here. As coaches if your not possitive toward your athletes then you should not be coaching. 

 

Are there exceptions to the rule of course there are.  And those exceptions are usually the best of the best.  When  you have a kid for 6 months a year for  an average of 3 hours a day teaching desire is very difficult.  Can it be done?  Of coarse it can.  Can it be done with every kid?  No.  But you try and try and try again to instill that desire and positive attitude.  You make goals. If that goal is reached then you make a higher goal. 

 

I know what you mean by setting to low a goal.  When asked what my goal was as a 2nd year wrestler I said "to be a state champion, and I would be satisfied with nothing less than placing top 6 in the state. (They only placed top 6 in my day).  I was told by a newpaper reporter who was interviewing the team. "thats probably to high of a goal why don't I put you want to qualify for state".  Being 14 years old I said "I know I'm going to state, but you can put that down if you want".  I lost in the semi's and placed 4th that year, and when I next saw the reporter said I told you that was not a high enough goal.  But that was me and I have always been hard headed and extremely competitive.  I never reached my goal but I know that I pushed myself to try and accomplish it.  As a coach you try to get that same fire in your wrestlers.

 

Dutch your comment about surrounding yourself with people with the same desire is exactly the point I was trying to make when I said the bigger programs (not schools) have an advantage.  When you have a handfull of kids on your team and 1 or 2 of those 10 have a real desire then its hard to keep those with the fire in thier belly fueled.  But if you have 30 kids in the room and 25 of them have the fire then it is easy to fuel that fire.

 

I tried just keeping those only with the fire on the team.  That mean you only have 2-4 kids in the room.  Not only is that not good for the kids but it also does not help the program, the school fights every day to end the program.  I believe that if 1 kid wants to wrestle then you give that kid the opportunity, but schools don't always look at it like that.  In the past we had an AD with the same belief now there is a new AD and he just looks an numbers. 

 

I didn't make the initial comment to make excusses.  I made it to thank those who help the kids who try hard but don't always succeed on the big stage for whatever reason it may be.  Many people don't realize that when someone from another team just acknoledges a kid who is trying, goes a long long way with that kid.  It shows them that their hard work has not gone un-noticed by those outside his team.  He takes that back with him and helps fuel the fire and in many cases pushes that kid to be more successful. 

 

I came from a large school with a large program. However, most see a big school and think big funding. That we had the complete backing of the school. We were allowed to have one home event each year. We had to ride some POS bus up to Ohio and Indiana tournaments where the wrestlers had to pay entrance fees and had to make the drives back home at 2-3 am. There was not some big hotel we all stayed in and we didn't have some grayhound bus as most of you imagine it. Our "big school" had about as much funding as most of the "small programs". We did not even have our own room. We maintained our room each and every day but most of the time we had to waste 30-45 minutes waiting for other teams to get out. As for the number of kids in the room, I always preferred to have just a handful of kids in our room. As much as it may sound negative, size of program is not nearly as important as say coaching or motivation of the kids. Whether you choose to believe my first hand accounts, the success of a program does not require thousands of dollars of funding. It require kids who are willing to push themselves further than other kids. That is why you have several teams in KY who are always in the top 10. The kids have grown up knowing hard work or the have grown up knowing how to do just enough. That is why you have small teams and programs like Union, WV etc who are always beating big programs and that is why you see big programs who have always been top level maintaining the traditions of past years.

I agree for the most part except WV I dont think they have "Always "beaten big programs I think they have some passionate people who in the last few yrs are creating a good team but im not sure of history completely .

As for the bus stuff I think its a sports thing If a Basketball team made it to state Finals they have parades pep rallies players get the treatment a team makes it to state in Wrestling and its ohh good job boys .kind of a joke considering .Well I take it back a basketball team gets more props for making first round of playoffs than a wrestling team does for winning state .Fact

Exactly right

How about previous unranked guys that may surprise some people or place?