From what I'm hearing, we are back at the "Dirty Old Horse Park" again for the State Tourney. Just curious how many wrestlers actually feel that their performance is hampered by the conditions.  Everyone please respond. I feel that if one kid is affected that's one too many. The Horse Park creates an unfair disadvantage for many wrestlers that work hard all year to be subject to a place they cannot preform to there full potential. Time for a new venue. Let's hear it. Give me some numbers.

Skin issues can be added to the list too.

Kinda ludicrous to have 448 athletes, with the potential for skin disease, to compete in an arena full of dirt and  2 showers. Someone is supposed to be looking out for our kids!!!  

The Horse Park isn't the place for a wrestling tournament..esp the state tournament. 

Worst venue ever. I and at least 2 of my assistant coaches had breathing and sinus issues. My wife has refused to attend again until it is moved to a venue that will actually be safe for the wrestlers, coaches and fans. The stands are dirty and dusty, the food over priced, and building is cold. It's called the Horse Park because it was meant for horses not human beings. The sad part is Mike Barren and the rest of the KHSAA don't care about the safety of the coaches, wrestlers, or fans. The only thing that matters to them is the bottom line: how much money can they make. If they cared they would have celebrated Brock Ervin becoming the first 5-time champion, Austin Myers winning his 3rd title in a row. Rather than celebrate these and other accomplishments they shuttled us in and shuttled us out, no celebration, just get us out now that they have collected their money. 

is there not any highschool gymnasium that could possibly hold it just wondering?

Don't think so. Tough to accommodate both floor space and seating at a high school facility. But there are more than enough arena options around the state that work better for our sport and don't create health concerns.

it's really ashame that the khsaa pushes our sport to the side considering we are at a point where Kentucky wrestling continues to grow and we have kids that can compete and win on a national level

     I complained after the first year to no avail.   I agree the venue is not fit for a state finals.  I saw several ladies and small kids in the restroom battling nosebleeds.  Clothes, uniforms, jackets have been ruined because of the filth.  It is going to take a wrestler  and or a fan that has documented health issues  ie allergic to Horses, dust

 to SUE the KHSAA .  just saying

And just how does one become employed in this agency? 

Could this all be fixed by simply putting a tarp over the dirt, but under the floor, for the tournament? I actually like the venue much better than the Civic Center; remember people complaining about the concessions there? However the wrestlers' health is most important.

Gripe, complain, Gripe, Complain, Gripe, Complain.........same old story.

How bout doing something about it?

Ever worked on getting a site contract for an event?  Lot more to it than you think.

What are you willing to pay to be at a better venue?  You guys gripe now about the cost, what do you think it will cost if it went to a better venue?

Heck cant even fill up a 5500 seat horse arena, where you really want to go with it?

Solutions?  If your not going to provide any, then just shut up. 

Could this all be fixed by simply putting a tarp over the dirt, but under the floor, for the tournament? I actually like the venue much better than the Civic Center; remember people complaining about the concessions there? However the wrestlers' health is most important.

See look here, a possible solution.  Good Post.  To answer your question no, the horse park can not put a tarp down under the floor as the floor will not settle like it should and stay together with a tarp between the dirt and floor.  It was discussed if a tarp could be put over the floor, however the price of that, and the thought that the tarp would not hold up, rip tear, would create more problems and possible safety issues.  

Could this all be fixed by simply putting a tarp over the dirt, but under the floor, for the tournament? I actually like the venue much better than the Civic Center; remember people complaining about the concessions there? However the wrestlers' health is most important.

The only thing that is better than the civic center is that the tourney can be done in 2 days instead of 3.

Have I ever had to get a contract on a venue for an event?  Yes.  An event as large as the Ky state tourney? No.  But I also do not have the same resources and manpower that the KHSAA has.  

We will never fill the 5,500 seats at the Horse Park if we keep losing spectators because they cannot attend because of medical issues.  

The KHSAA took a chance by re-locating the state tourney.  They did nor foresee the problems that would arise from the move. ie-dust and allergy issues.  Hopefully they are in the process of solving this problem.  It may take a few years to solve however.   PMK1  what do you expect from parents and fans?  Do you think that they have all the answers?  If they did they wouldn't complain.  Comments like "don't complain unless you have an answer" are silly.  If you had the answer you wouldn't be complaining.  KHSAA is paid to solve these problems.  How would they know there were any problems unless someone complains about them.  Geesh. 

What has to be weighed is the cost of a venue that will not have these problems and the cost of fans and wrestlers who have medical problems.  I'm one of the lucky ones that have no problem with the Horse Park.  It's a decent size, plenty of parking and seats.  The traffic in and out is quick and easy to navigate.  There are a lot of positives for the Horse Park, with one BIG negative.  

My complaint are:

1.  No brackets or updated brackets available.  (easy solution--- Sell brackets)

2.  Brackets are available on line, but no Wi-Fi (another easy solution-- offer Wi-Fi)

If you have ever been to any type of event you know that concession costs are high.  There should however be a place where wrestlers and coaches can go to consume their own food.  (Maybe a few Trailers out back, 1 for coaches, 1 for wrestlers and 1 with showers for wrestlers). 

But I'm just a redneck from KY that don't nows much about big city.

As usual:  These are the opinions of GOO you can take them or leave them.  It doesn't really matter one way or the other. 

GOO OUT>

I started this thread, just wondering who all had breathing issues affected by the Horse Park , which in turn affected their performance in an adverse manner. This in turn creates a unfair disadvantage to those affected. The health and wellness as well as an equal playing field for all wrestlers should be concern number one, for everyone. For me has nothing to do with programs, admission costs , or the cost of a pretzel and a diet dew. It should be about the health of the wrestlers and putting them in the most productive environment for maximum performance. Being able to take a shower wouldn't hurt!!

I agree 100%.  As I stated.  I hope and expect that KHSAA is trying to resolve this issue.  But as we all know it takes time for things to change.  Contracts, licensing and the such.  I have faith in KHSAA that they will resolve this issue but probably not in time for any of the wrestlers in high school at this time.

With the previous post in mind (that a change in venue will likely not occur in time for any of our existing wrestlers in high school today), what could be done for those affected to help level the playing field?

You mentioned Showers could help, this could easily be accomplished by setting up an RV in the Parking lot, which might allow for an environment that is "Horse Free" for the wrestler to recuperate after his matches. This could be done by the Team/Family with or without KHSAA helping out.

Is there a way to setup a Room in the arena that can be Asthma/Allergy friendly? Sealed and Air-conditioned or filtered? I am not educated in the Medical field and not aware of what level of separation is needed from the contaminants. Could UK or UofL Colleges of Medicine be contacted and be of help in creating an isolated environment?

Others have mentioned laying down tarps or other material between the dirt floor and the mat.  Is it possible to have a membrane of any type that provides separation enough to allow the wrestlers to compete without being significantly affected? I'm not asking if its possible to accomplish, I'm asking if it were possible would it help those affected by Allergy/Asthma problems? If so, then it would be worth investigating if it could be done on some portion of the mats (maybe two) if the entire arena were not possible.  If this is not possible, I know there are some other rooms at Alltech Arena where a Mat could be setup away from the dirt floor area.  For the Youth State, we have used a large conference room for Registration/Awards that is large enough to setup a Mat and that area could be designated for specific matches (away from dirt). 

I took my boys to a camp in Ohio with Mitch Clark (Ohio State, NCAA Champ in 1997) and he told a story of a NY HS State Tournament match, which he participated in that took place off-site, away from the normal State Tournament site due to his opponent having a medical condition. This occurred in New York in the mid-90's, surely KHSAA could arrange something similar in 2015 era? Maybe at Scott County HS?

What other things can be done to help level the playing field for these Wrestlers? I'd hate to see any deserving wrestler have to sit out for the ultimate goal they are working towards all year. Our Wrestlers, especially those that reach State work tremendously hard year round and deserve more form their Parents/Coaches/Teachers/Athletics Administrations.

I've been trying to avoid posting on this issue since the last time I did (and brought up some of the same points that have been embraced in this topic) I got absolutely ramrodded.

I know for a fact the KHSAA is trying to remedy the situation. Several of their workers have the same health issues that many here have been complaining about. Here are the major issues that have prevented us from moving anywhere else:

1) Contract. Horse Park has a contract with the KHSAA through either this season or next (I think it is this season). After that, they are going to look LONG AND HARD for another venue. Bear in mind, THIS IS THE VENUE THE COACH'S ASSOCIATION AT THE TIME SELECTED from the list of possible venues. Many of these issues that have arisen since the contract was signed they thought they had accounted for. Apparently not. 

2) Prices at other venues. Freedom Hall was the first and foremost choice for State. The issue was that the KY Fairgrounds people wanted $10 per car per entrance/exit. Meaning that those wrestlers who won their semi finals matches who often go back to the hotel and rested...would be charged $20 or more to do that. No joke. They were unwilling to waver on that either. 

Other than the Horse Park and Freedom Hall there aren't any other VIABLE places to host our State Tournament. YUM! is owned by a cooperation and based on what I've been told from others who have gone for events...it would not only be too large but parking would be miserable...plus the huge cost to rent it. I think Memorial on the campus of UK is too small to put down 6+ mats, although it may be worth exploring. NCAAs put the mats down edge-to-edge so if we could do that in Memorial I say go for that. 

Remember that the coaches wanted 6 or more mats down so whatever venue we go to has to not only have room for the nearly 100 schools that now sponsor wrestling, but also have room to put down all the mats LEGALLY. 

What about going back to a high school? Henry Clay can put down six mats somewhat comfortably, although they are butted against each other. The problem there would be enough space for spectators and the fact that school is going on that day. Is there any old HS in central KY that could fit six mats so we wouldn't have to worry about parking?

If it weren't for the breathing issues I would love the horse park. Plenty of space for spectators, mats and parking. Concessions are high anywhere. There has to be a way to fix the breathing problem. What about dousing the dirt with water to make it muddy before the tournament and then on Fri night? Only dry dirt gets blown up into the air as dust. Construction sites do this all the time.

WKU has an arena I think would work for us. Diddle arena is the name of the arena.

diddle would be great !

Not sure of the cost to rent out the arena, but I believe it would an awesome spot for the state tournament. Plenty of space for mats. They've got push out bleachers, so we could push them in to hold more mats in the earlier rounds, and then we could pull them out for semifinals/placing rounds/state finals matches.

Diddle would be a good location; however, that goes against the KHSAA trying to keep every state sporting event in Lexington (or at least not in Louisville)for their own selfish reasons. We were lucky to get a single mat for the finals.....only after fighting those "people". They will always do what best suits them. I'm all for a grass roots fight like the finals mat fight to get a venue change.

I think first and foremost the fight has to be the health of the participants involved . If there was some sort of an advantage given to a certain kid , this thread would blow up. But people don't seem as concerned when a unfair disadvantage is put on a group of kids with breathing issue . All caused by wrestling in an arena full of dirt.

I'm pretty sure the girl's state basketball tournament is held in Diddle arena, with that being said maybe we could add on to the contract to utilize the arena for wrestling if it doesn't conflict with anything already scheduled.

I think first and foremost the fight has to be the health of the participants involved . If there was some sort of an advantage given to a certain kid , this thread would blow up. But people don't seem as concerned when a unfair disadvantage is put on a group of kids with breathing issue . All caused by wrestling in an arena full of dirt.

I completely understand what you are saying about the dirt and the breathing problems.  I wonder if you could get a doctor to send a statement to the KHSAA regarding the health risks of the arena.  Maybe they would listen if the health industry got behind you.  Just a suggestion.

What about EKU then? Do they have anything like Diddle Arena? Maybe KY State U in Frankfort has a facility we could use. I always liked the idea of the state tournament being in the state capitol.

Problem with Diddle is that they wont let the mats on the gym floor and scheduling conflicts with the conference basketball schedule.  The KHSAA gets a break on the rental of Diddle because its a multi day event and having Football there as well, so its hard to say what the one/two rental would be.  

Also keep in mind that the youth state tournament follows HS every year, and currently both parties, KHSAA and Youth get a discount on the rental of the horsepark.  (its not very much but it is a discount)  

I've been trying to avoid posting on this issue since the last time I did (and brought up some of the same points that have been embraced in this topic) I got absolutely ramrodded.

 

I know for a fact the KHSAA is trying to remedy the situation. Several of their workers have the same health issues that many here have been complaining about. Here are the major issues that have prevented us from moving anywhere else:

 

1) Contract. Horse Park has a contract with the KHSAA through either this season or next (I think it is this season). After that, they are going to look LONG AND HARD for another venue. Bear in mind, THIS IS THE VENUE THE COACH'S ASSOCIATION AT THE TIME SELECTED from the list of possible venues. Many of these issues that have arisen since the contract was signed they thought they had accounted for. Apparently not. 

 

2) Prices at other venues. Freedom Hall was the first and foremost choice for State. The issue was that the KY Fairgrounds people wanted $10 per car per entrance/exit. Meaning that those wrestlers who won their semi finals matches who often go back to the hotel and rested...would be charged $20 or more to do that. No joke. They were unwilling to waver on that either. 

 

Other than the Horse Park and Freedom Hall there aren't any other VIABLE places to host our State Tournament. YUM! is owned by a cooperation and based on what I've been told from others who have gone for events...it would not only be too large but parking would be miserable...plus the huge cost to rent it. I think Memorial on the campus of UK is too small to put down 6+ mats, although it may be worth exploring. NCAAs put the mats down edge-to-edge so if we could do that in Memorial I say go for that. 

 

Remember that the coaches wanted 6 or more mats down so whatever venue we go to has to not only have room for the nearly 100 schools that now sponsor wrestling, but also have room to put down all the mats LEGALLY. 

1. That is correct, I was told by the horse park it was a three year contract, with an option for a fourth year that had to be picked up after year one, which it was.  

2.  $10.00 parking is legit, I called the KY Fair board about the possibility of renting broadbent arena, and the first thing they said was, we can not drop the parking price.  Its a sticking point for what IMO (Broadbent or Freedom hall) would be a much better venue) 

3.  Yum is a $50,000 base rental plus add on charges for everything, the add on charge list is about 300 pages deep in their contract.  Also because of the contract with Louisville, than can only commit to one year at a time. 

4.  Rupp I dont think is allowed to commit to anything besides one year dates due to contract with UK basketball.  Secondly i'm not sure what the rental would be (about 5 years ago it was around $35,000, plus add ons) but in line with YUM I would think. 

5.  Memorial on UK's campus doesnt have a big enough floor space to hold the mats needed.  Plus dealing with University's on renting facilities is not easy by any means.  

Other Options?

What about EKU then? Do they have anything like Diddle Arena? Maybe KY State U in Frankfort has a facility we could use. I always liked the idea of the state tournament being in the state capitol.

Dont know about EKU, but K State uses the civic center, which is now out for wrestling as they have renovated the inside and no longer have room for wrestling mats. 

Diddle would be a good location; however, that goes against the KHSAA trying to keep every state sporting event in Lexington (or at least not in Louisville)for their own selfish reasons. We were lucky to get a single mat for the finals.....only after fighting those "people". They will always do what best suits them. I'm all for a grass roots fight like the finals mat fight to get a venue change.

Not entirely true.

Volleyball is in Louisville at Valley High School,  Football is at WKU, Girls Basketball is at WKU, Girls Softball is at Owensboro. 

Soccer has been at Dunbar the last few years, Cross country is at the horse park, Boys basketball at Rupp, baseball at Whitaker park.  

So 4 out of the 9 major sports are not in Lexington.  

The only thing that is better than the civic center is that the tourney can be done in 2 days instead of 3.

 

Have I ever had to get a contract on a venue for an event?  Yes.  An event as large as the Ky state tourney? No.  But I also do not have the same resources and manpower that the KHSAA has.  

 

We will never fill the 5,500 seats at the Horse Park if we keep losing spectators because they cannot attend because of medical issues.  

 

The KHSAA took a chance by re-locating the state tourney.  They did nor foresee the problems that would arise from the move. ie-dust and allergy issues.  Hopefully they are in the process of solving this problem.  It may take a few years to solve however.   PMK1  what do you expect from parents and fans?  Do you think that they have all the answers?  If they did they wouldn't complain.  Comments like "don't complain unless you have an answer" are silly.  If you had the answer you wouldn't be complaining.  KHSAA is paid to solve these problems.  How would they know there were any problems unless someone complains about them.  Geesh. 

 

What has to be weighed is the cost of a venue that will not have these problems and the cost of fans and wrestlers who have medical problems.  I'm one of the lucky ones that have no problem with the Horse Park.  It's a decent size, plenty of parking and seats.  The traffic in and out is quick and easy to navigate.  There are a lot of positives for the Horse Park, with one BIG negative.  

 

My complaint are:

1.  No brackets or updated brackets available.  (easy solution--- Sell brackets)

2.  Brackets are available on line, but no Wi-Fi (another easy solution-- offer Wi-Fi)

 

If you have ever been to any type of event you know that concession costs are high.  There should however be a place where wrestlers and coaches can go to consume their own food.  (Maybe a few Trailers out back, 1 for coaches, 1 for wrestlers and 1 with showers for wrestlers). 

 

But I'm just a redneck from KY that don't nows much about big city.

 

As usual:  These are the opinions of GOO you can take them or leave them.  It doesn't really matter one way or the other. 

GOO OUT>

I didn't say they had to have the answers, but complaining does no good if you don't offer possible solutions to the problem, even if they are not feasible, at least its something to ponder and either look into or rule out.  

You do bring up an excellent point about venue cost, if you knew the true numbers for the horse park you would be shocked.  Also I can attest the the horse park is the most feasible cost wise at the moment.  I think there is a small perception that the state wrestling tournament makes a lot more money than it really does.  

I can address the wifi connection issue at the horse park, their equipment can not handle all the fans on it all day long, thats why they charge a $500.00 connection fee to their wifi.  Last year I think only KHSAA and one media outlet paid the fee to have wifi.  

Also, there really isnt a place in the inner workings of the horse park for a coaches room, wrestlers room etc.   Not sure if they are permitted to bring in shower trailers, but im sure the financial cost of that would not be worth the payoff.  

The venue issue is a direct result of our post season structure issue. Time to beat a dead horse. No pun intended. It is time to stop the watered down 32 man bracket. We have succeeded in getting our numbers up, wasn't that the goal? So now, I propose to end this 32 man State Tournament stuff. However you want to structure it, Districts, Regionals, State, or Regionals, Semi State, State. Whatever you want to call it, go back to a 16 man bracket. You can do a traditional 2 day tournament or you can knock it down to a one day tournament by eliminating kids that get beat in the first round. I know this isn't the most popular idea, but it does open up a whole new world of venues for us.

IWIN:  I'm not sure how long you have been around but:  in the 70's they had a true follow your man tourney.  They wrestled the championship bracket until the finalists were decided.  Only those who lost to the finalists were pulled back into the tourney to determine 3rd and 4th place.  From 80-86 (I think) the state tourney was run with a 16 man 1st round follow your man tourney.  That means if you lose in the 1st round then you are only pulled back in the tourney if the person you lost to wins in the second round.  Years of fighting finally got rid of that structure.  in 87 and 88 they tried the District, Region, Semi-State, State format.  That meant an 8 man 1 day state tourney.  That was disasterous.  No one was in favor of that format ever again.  

I was not a proponent of the 32 man bracket when it started.  However I have grown to enjoy it.  I believe just the opposite of what you are saying.   I believe we need to break up the mega regions into districts.  Keep the 32 man bracket and do what the middle school has done. Region 1 would be broken into 2 districts then the top four from each wt. class compete in a regional tourney and so on.  

Lets not go backwards and make the same mistakes again.  "Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it".  

I haven't heard anyone say that they hated Frankfurt. Maybe adding districts again isn't so bad! Take the tourney back to 16 and to the venue with 4 mats that everyone loved....done in 2 days.

GOO, thanks for the history lesson. Sounds like you have been around a long long long time. I've been around the last 20 plus years. I've seen some really good changes, and I've seen some really dumb things as well. The last thing I want us to do is to go backwards. But, in coming up with solutions to problems, ideas have to be tossed out for people to chew on. Right? I have not, and never will be a fan of the 32 man bracket. If we do what the middle school does, we will have a State Tournament with a 16 man bracket preceded by Districts and Regionals. So doesn't that kind of make your point of about believing just the opposite of me null and void? The follow your man tournaments of old do sound ridiculous. I was suggesting a 16 man bracket where if you lose the first round, your out, period. If you lose 2nd round, you wrestle for 5th-8th. If you lose in the semis, you wrestle for 3rd. Just because you know history, doesn't mean that you have answers. If you can take your history and add ideas, now we are getting somewhere.

NKU has a nice arena.  Not bad drive for us Northern Folks.  Lol

I haven't heard anyone say that they hated Frankfurt. Maybe adding districts again isn't so bad! Take the tourney back to 16 and to the venue with 4 mats that everyone loved....done in 2 days.

See my post above, not sure where you think your going to have it in Frankfort, the Civic Center can no longer do wrestling in the arena after the Remodel.  

I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that I would have been fighting to keep the 32 man bracket.  But times change and the 32 man bracket has sparked interest in the state for wresting.  There is no other spectacle in the state of ky, than the Ky wrestling state tourney.  Thousands of fans come to an event for 2 days to watch hundreds of matches on a floor full of mats. 

I don't want to lose that.  I also don't want to change a format that works because of logistics.  You don't shorten a football field because there is not enough room, nor do you lower the rim of a basketball game because the ceiling is to low. 

So don't change the format of the wrestling state tourney because you are having trouble finding a venue.  There are venues out there it is just obtaining them. 

Lets focus on finding a venue that fits our needs more than changing our format.  What really needs to change is the posturing of the KHSAA and just doing what is best for wrestling. 

I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that I would have been fighting to keep the 32 man bracket.  But times change and the 32 man bracket has sparked interest in the state for wresting.  There is no other spectacle in the state of ky, than the Ky wrestling state tourney.  Thousands of fans come to an event for 2 days to watch hundreds of matches on a floor full of mats. 

 

I don't want to lose that.  I also don't want to change a format that works because of logistics.  You don't shorten a football field because there is not enough room, nor do you lower the rim of a basketball game because the ceiling is to low. 

 

So don't change the format of the wrestling state tourney because you are having trouble finding a venue.  There are venues out there it is just obtaining them. 

 

Lets focus on finding a venue that fits our needs more than changing our format.  What really needs to change is the posturing of the KHSAA and just doing what is best for wrestling. 

What are you willing to pay for that venue?    Thats what it comes down to cost.   What are you willing to pay as admission?

Yes that is the question.  I personally don't care if KHSAA makes a dime on the Wrestling state tourney.  That is not what it is about.  I hope they break even by spendng everything else on the wrestlers and thier needs.  Which in this case is a new venue.

As for me personally for a two day event I would not mind paying $40-$45.  What other major event can you go to that is cheeper.  I would however like to see a reduced price for the participants parents.  Maybe each qualifier can buy two tournament tickets for the price of one.  Thats 898 tickets at half price.  The rest could be $40 for a tourney pass or $20 a day. 

How many spectators were at the state tourney last year?  2000 a day? Thats 1100 paying full price for $44,000 about 900 at half proce for 18000. Thats $62,000 on ticket sales. 

the arena not being filled is not an issue in my eyes... When I qualified for state in TN in 2005-06 we were at McKenzie Arena at UTC. the upper deck of their arena was not filled at all and at the time of the finals no one sat in the upper decks. We paid 15 dollars a day (40 dollars for a 3 day pass) and 15 dollars for parking. 

I do like GOO idea. I know it is about the dollar, but man butts in seats = more money for concession and other items. Buy 2 tix for price of 1 makes sense, but realistically it will not happen/ 

Something I think that needs to be addressed is the outrageous costs for food in the arena too and the inability to bring a TEAM cooler in. This is something that also needs to addressed. If not a cooler inside then, tables so we can eat lunch without sitting on a floor that horse crap and tractor tires run across. 

32 man Bracket brings more kids and fans and interest to the sport .Nothings broke there so nothing to fix except some grown men who do not seem wise enough to seed a state tournament .

Bigger issue for the state is the ridiculous awards a kid wins a state title and doesnt even get a Bracket thats disgraceful .if they dropped to a 16 man bracket they wouldnt even get medals I suppose .Horrible I guess your kids are not worth printing up a couple bracket sheets.

people arguing over some dirty floors and large numbers when the kids who actually make it to the top of the podium who do the work get dumped on .

First there is crappy awards then you take their celebration away what will you geniuses cone up with next to take the fun out of it for the kids .

Then you have the security guards who back the crackhead moms who have their little delinquents running around thieving who when caught shed some tears to get the victims yelled at lol .send those little sobs and their mommas to jail.

The size of an award in no way trumps the advantage one wrestler recieves over another because of venue that causes alergies. 

Awards are not judged by the look or size but by what they represent.  Maybe in elementary or middle school.  At this level you are still trying to keep a kid interested, but not in high school.

After 4 or 5 years those medals are lost shoved into a box or in a fish tank.  Thats where I found my state medals.

The watering down of the celebration is annoying.  The finals just don't rock like it use to.  Or maybe I'm just getting old.

I think the Horse Park fits nicely for wrestling.  But we have to solve the alergy problem.  If we can solve it and stay at the Horse Park would be the best answer.

Agree with GOO, I like the venue itself other than the breathing issues and the lack of showers for participants.  Also, team coolers should be allowed to be brought in.  I understand that the KHSAA wants people to buy concessions and can agree with that.  Maybe force teams to keep their coolers in a place where only wrestlers/coaches can be rather than the stands.  Then spectators have to buy concessions.  However I'm all for the best fit and exploring other facilities is not a bad idea.  Does anyone know if EKU has an arena and what it's like?

Maybe the coaches Association can help with the team cooler/shower situation.   If it is possible to bring in a type of trailer that can be used for showers and team coolers/food, maybe the Coaches Assoc. can help with the cost.

Just throwing things at the wall and seeing if they stick here, but.  Maybe some sort of O2 masks at the side of the mat for those who have allergies.  Heck I don't know just thinking out loud. 

sorry but THE STATE CHAMPS IN KY DO NOT EVEN GET A BRACKET .its ridiculous .

of course the coaches got some nice Booty a couple yrs back didnt they .

trust me the wrestlers know they get the short end of the stick come awards time .

Dont make excuses for no Brackets for champs maybe if you win a couple you might agree.

Agree about the no brackets, hell I got a bracket my senior year and I got beat in the finals. However this topic is about the venue.

I agree with everything that is being said. Bottom line the reason for this thread is the find out who had breathing issues. As I said earlier a fair level playing field for everyone should be first and foremost.. All kids with breathing and allergy issues are being cheated.

If there are health issues it should certainly be addressed first and foremost .There are other issues as well ,Brackets are actually cheap ,cant see why they are not awarded .The Jr high state finals in ohio a few yrs back were held in a much worse Horse cattle arena than Alltech for a couple years ,I LIKE All Tech but my kids have no breathing or allergy issues and I couldnt really support a place that does if it hurts kids chances of a fair shot .

An arena like All Tech would be preferable to a HS ,Taking away the Celebration was BS as well the fans and kids looked forward to it and it was Harmless.

Not sure when they got rid of the brackets or even why.  It seems to me it was not that long ago.  They use to give brackets out at District, Region, and State for the champions.  I did get my fair share of brackets and after a couple of years they were lost or hidden in a closet.  Brackets are cheap.  How much are they $3-5.  An extra $70 for the champs and $140 if the finalists get them.  

Maybe is they sold brackets to the fans they could raise the money for brackets for the finalists. 

Or maybe each region can sponsor 1 or 2 wt. classes and pay for that wt. classes bracket.  Or maybe find a sponsor who would do all the brackets.  

If they are that big of a deal then lets get it done.  I don't care who pays for it. 

Good Ideas,Not really sure about Ky but in Ohio the Kids prized their Brackets .

plantmanky1 has anyone ever explored Louisville Gardens as an option? What pros or cons do you see with it?

plantmanky1 has anyone ever explored Louisville Gardens as an option? What pros or cons do you see with it?

I believe the city condemned the building for events and was in process of making it into office space or something. 

I did find this about it.  http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2014/07/30/city-seeks-developer-louisville-gardens/13331723/

sorry but THE STATE CHAMPS IN KY DO NOT EVEN GET A BRACKET .its ridiculous .

of course the coaches got some nice Booty a couple yrs back didnt they .

trust me the wrestlers know they get the short end of the stick come awards time .

Dont make excuses for no Brackets for champs maybe if you win a couple you might agree.

By the time time I was a Senior(90-91) we received Brackets and a generic hat for a State title. In my mind, it obviously comes down to sponsorship. We lost it and I am unsure why. Whomever leads this may want to step up.We have gained value as a state. It seems as though we have lost the corporate side. Our state has improved immensely in the last 20 years, lets do it justice by stepping up for the kids.FYI, I have been a member of the KHSWCA rep.committee and it is very difficult to pass new ideas through the KHSAA.

BTW, Am I wrong to think that a TARP(multiple tarps) put down on the dirt floor underneath the plastic perforated tiles could possibly improve the breathing issues being discussed?

I am sure it is an extra expense, but it sure seems like it would curtail respiratory issues.

BTW, Am I wrong to think that a TARP(multiple tarps) put down on the dirt floor underneath the plastic perforated tiles could possibly improve the breathing issues being discussed?

I am sure it is an extra expense, but it sure seems like it would curtail respiratory issues.

I posted earlier but it won't work, the floor needs the dirt to settle and lock in and will not level with a tarp under it.  I wouldn't have believed it either till I saw them put it down once, now I know why they charge what they charge to put the floor down.    

I posted earlier but it won't work, the floor needs the dirt to settle and lock in and will not level with a tarp under it.  I wouldn't have believed it either till I saw them put it down once, now I know why they charge what they charge to put the floor down.

Oh yeah Coach Brown I remember those ugly brown jackets. I would have killed for one back in the day. Dreamed about those things.

Let me just say this. The bracket issue is being worked on. At least for the state champs. Can't help you and the fans GOO.

What about watering the dirt and then putting a tarp over it? I know at construction sites they put water on the dirt so it stays on the ground and it doesn't get pulled up into the air. With that and a tarp I imagine it would be good for both days, or at least with a watering at the beginning of each day.

Then they could have extra padding because they would be wrestling on mudd or just pull up the tarps and water it down and we xan watch all the CC moms mud wrassle .

What about EKU then? Do they have anything like Diddle Arena? Maybe KY State U in Frankfort has a facility we could use. I always liked the idea of the state tournament being in the state capitol.

EKU's arena, IIRC, isn't big enough to put down six mats. KSU has an on-campus gym, but it isn't very big and doubles as the student activity center. Kentucky State rarely, if ever, plays at the Civic Center.

The venue issue is a direct result of our post season structure issue. Time to beat a dead horse. No pun intended. It is time to stop the watered down 32 man bracket. We have succeeded in getting our numbers up, wasn't that the goal? So now, I propose to end this 32 man State Tournament stuff. However you want to structure it, Districts, Regionals, State, or Regionals, Semi State, State. Whatever you want to call it, go back to a 16 man bracket. You can do a traditional 2 day tournament or you can knock it down to a one day tournament by eliminating kids that get beat in the first round. I know this isn't the most popular idea, but it does open up a whole new world of venues for us.

I'd be in favor of bringing districts back, especially since the regions are getting so crowded and spaced out even more. Region 2 stretches from Meade County to Owensboro now. I wish there was a way to move the central time zone teams to another region, but it is what it is.

I'd be in favor of bringing districts back, especially since the regions are getting so crowded and spaced out even more. Region 2 stretches from Meade County to Owensboro now. I wish there was a way to move the central time zone teams to another region, but it is what it is.

Look How far regions 7 & 8 stretch.  McCreary all the way to Fayette in region 7 and Harrison to Pike in region 8. 

I started a thread about splitting the regions in half, calling them districts, in order to reduce the area of the regions. Only the finalists would qualify which would keep the 32 man bracket. Thoughts?

After talking with the Horse Park today to discuss future venues with them for 2016. I brought up the dust issue and was told that it has been discussed with KHSAA and been resolved. they have purchased a mat to put underneath the floor, and was used for the Cheerleading competition without any complaints of dust issues. If this is correct, I think this venue will continue to a great place to wrestle.

Awesome!

After talking with the Horse Park today to discuss future venues with them for 2016. I brought up the dust issue and was told that it has been discussed with KHSAA and been resolved. they have purchased a mat to put underneath the floor, and was used for the Cheerleading competition without any complaints of dust issues. If this is correct, I think this venue will continue to a great place to wrestle.

Not sure why they couldn't have done that to begin with.

Common sense says folks were going to have breathing issues, what all the dirt and dander floating around in the arena.

Skin issues like sore throats, cough abd breathing are big issues