It makes me sick to think weight classes where only 2 people even have a shot to win meeting in the quarters. The best two should wrestle for all the marbles and give some entertainment to the crowd. Ie. Heidorf vs ervin last year.

113- vega and more shouldnt meet until the finals

126- erdman and poynter, state finals match

132- duncan and binder, If you were there at the dragon thats what your admission was for. Probably quarters.

152- barton, actley, oxford. None should meet before semis.belks also in the mix forsure

Hwt- young and vinegar or brown.

If khsaa does such a great job, then seed this damn tournament so at 6:00 Saturday night we can all be pleased for all 14 weight classes. Although atm will pin

Seriously ,Hurst is a state champ with a win over Moore and you are scared and worried moore might see vega before him ,thats &$&@ up saying they are the only two with a chance to win I have heard it all now

If you want to know about the seeding process just look at the middle school threat talking about the seeding of their state tourney. 

Its the same argument every year ,I have seen a kid get a pass to the finals almost with five of the top seven on one side .

you can pick finals but some like 113 are wide open with maybe Vega being the favorite for sure

Its the same argument every year ,I have seen a kid get a pass to the finals almost with five of the top seven on one side .

you can pick finals but some like 113 are wide open with maybe Vega being the favorite for sure

Contradicting much, wide open with maybe Vega being the favorite forsure??

yeah lol ,wide open meaning theres one fav ,not two how could there be two clear favs when one has lost to others in the class one of whom is a state champ ,not contradicting at all.the challenger is wide open .

Vega beat hurst 9-2 giving up 0 earned points..

And ,I said he was the favorite so I get a Cookie ,you said he and Moore were clear finalists the only two with shots to win ,but Hurst beat Moore once this yr soooo you get 0 cookies ,you did realize Atm will pin so you can have a cookie anyway lol I think you forgot a hvy champ that is if he is actually wrestling although he is not invincible he lost a few last yr .

Well I do enjoy cookies so we can each get 1 I guess.

Crazy man you keep bringing up that Hurst beat Moore. did they wrestle twice? Moore pinned Hurst in the Rumble then lost to Ervin in the finals. If they did wrestle 2 times and Hurst won the rematch then the correct statement would be they are 1-1  as far as Vega being the favorite, I say yea. But would it really surprise anyone if Moore,or Wells or Hurst or 2-3 otherstake him out? I would not be shocked.

North Oldham tournament in 10 days.  I believe Hurst, Moore and Vega will all be there.  State finals warm-up.  

 

Vega is the top pick right now with wins over both and losses to neither.

 

Moore and Hurst have split this season.

 

I think at this point you have to say 1 Vega   2 Moore   3 Hurst  

 

I don't think we have seen Hurst at full potential this year.  Battled some sickness, missed a week to attend a funeral.  He has some ground to make up for sure but I just don't have much doubt that he will make up that ground over the next 3 weeks.

 

Moore is the wild card.  Capable of winning but never wrestled in a state tournament before.  Lets see if the big stage affects him.  I know I was sweatin bullets the first state tournament I participated in.

 

Just hope the bracket is set up where all 3 make the semis but don't count on it.

Seriously ,Hurst is a state champ with a win over Moore and you are scared and worried moore might see vega before him ,thats &$&@ up saying they are the only two with a chance to win I have heard it all now

Thank goodness someone finally said this and for the moment of clarity.  I felt exactly the same way when someone was saying that Ervin would be a clear favorite at 113!.

Thank goodness someone finally said this and for the moment of clarity. I felt exactly the same way when someone was saying that Ervin would be a clear favorite at 113!.

I don't think he would be a clear favorite but he does have wins over Vega and Moore so he would be in the mix

And with Moore competing in some tough preseason tournament's I don't think the big stage of the state tournament will have him to shook

In a perfect world, the top 4 at 113 meet in the semis at state. Will it work out that way??? We will all have to wait and see. But the bottom line in this, the winner will be the wrestler who brings his "a" game and then some at the state tournament. Vega, Hurst, and Moore might be the front runners but if any of them slack off or don't give it their all, there are plenty of other talented wrestlers in the weight class who will be more than willing and ready to step up and take their place.

In a perfect world, the top 4 at 113 meet in the semis at state. Will it work out that way??? We will all have to wait and see. But the bottom line in this, the winner will be the wrestler who brings his "a" game and then some at the state tournament. Vega, Hurst, and Moore might be the front runners but if any of them slack off or don't give it their all, there are plenty of other talented wrestlers in the weight class who will be more than willing and ready to step up and take their place.

Exactly.

yes, Wells .

Honestly guys, the only legitimate way of seeding the state tournament while seperating region finalists from one another would be to only seed returning placers. By doing so, you are seperating your confirmed best from one another that way they don't meet until later in the tournament.

For example: Previous year state placers

J. Smith 1st at 145-1 seed at 145

J. Doe 3rd at 145-2 seed at 145

J. White 1st at 138-3 seed at 145

J. Black-6th at 120- 4 seed at 145

Obviously, a wrestler that did not place the year before could be a legitimate contender for a medal but seeding the tournament this way does not keep them from the podium. Just my opinion and this is what I would prefer. However, at the end of the day-to be the man you have to beat the man.

what would you do if all the placers for a particular weight class move up or graduate? and how deep does your seeding go?

It would take hours and maybe even days to seed the State Tournament. Do I like seeing these matches early on....no. But it would be almost impossible without head to heads and common opponents. Case in point:

 

Ryle wrestles a lot in Ohio. I would bet most of the Western KY schools have not seen them.

 

Johnson Central has only wrestled in KY a handful of times. How would we seed them?

 

It's not as easy as it sounds.

 

Some say we should only seed the Region Champs. How would that work this year at:

 

106 - Both #1 and #2 are in Region 1

132 - Both #3 and #4 are in Region 6

138 - Both #2 and #3 are in Region 1

182 - Both #1 and #2 are in Region 4

195 - Both #2 and #3 are in Region 4

220 - Both #2 and #4 are in Region 1

Perhaps the KHSAA should mandate that wrestlers compete in a specific percentage of their events in KY. Don't want it to be too high because kids get better by competing out of state. I would like to see the state tournament seeded and this would be a way to get more head-to-head matchups.

They do mandate you have so many matches so even if you only had that many in KY only and the rest outside ,It would never fly.

sounds to me we best get up real early on saturday eat breakfast drive 2 hrs. and not miss the quarter finals!

sounds to me we best get up real early on saturday eat breakfast drive 2 hrs. and not miss the quarter finals!

You may not want to miss any matches at 138. Some of the first round 2v3 matches are going to be really good.

Yes but the regional champs and runner ups are automatically on the opposite sides of the bracket so technically they are seeded a little bit.

 

I've always thought that track record meaning on how they did in the state last year) should also come into play when seeding i.e. example Matthews at 182 and Frankrone should automatically be places in opposite sides of the bracket because they were the state finalists last year.

 

 

But it's a useless point because the state tournament won't ever be seeded because no sport is.

 

State tournament still a great time though. Upsets happen every year and what a great couple of days of wrestling it is.

Wouldn't trade it for any other sports championship.

Fanofwrestling i wouldn't say it will never happen because look at how long it took the ncaa in football to realize how STUPID it was not to have a playoff.Now everyone loves the playoffs.If seeding is not important then why the heck does every tournament every week do it ???? is it more work for a committee to seed state?YES,but it is not one tenth of one percent as much work as these kids put in for a chance to be under the lights on the biggest stage in most of their wrestling careers.SORRY I WILL NEVER GET IT

I think the effort it would take to seed the tournament is being over exaggerated ,its 32 kids half the wrestling moms in KY know who the top four kids in the state are in their kids class ,you cant tell me a committee of officials or coaches cannot seed the top four or eight then throw the rest around the best they can ,I would give extra criteria for previous yrs state champ as someone mentioned ,If 1 guy can rank the whole dang nations High School wrestlers top twenty in every class I think a few guys can rank a state tournament .

Fanofwrestling i wouldn't say it will never happen because look at how long it took the ncaa in football to realize how STUPID it was not to have a playoff.Now everyone loves the playoffs.If seeding is not important then why the heck does every tournament every week do it ???? is it more work for a committee to seed state?YES,but it is not one tenth of one percent as much work as these kids put in for a chance to be under the lights on the biggest stage in most of their wrestling careers.SORRY I WILL NEVER GET IT

Exactly. We have found a way to make it work the last 2 yrs for the MS state tournament seeding the region champs and the others fall in via placement slots (1v4, 2v3). We had some great discussion with about 30 coaches in attendance and providing input and the whole meeting took less than 2 hrs.

Trust me Coach McCoy. It can be done. Just need the KHSAA to sign off on it.

Exactly. We have found a way to make it work the last 2 yrs for the MS state tournament seeding the region champs and the others fall in via placement slots (1v4, 2v3). We had some great discussion with about 30 coaches in attendance and providing input and the whole meeting took less than 2 hrs.

Trust me Coach McCoy. It can be done. Just need the KHSAA to sign off on it.

Doesn't MS fall under KHSAA now?  If they allow it for MS, it will only be time!

Get on board McCoy...quit being a negative Nancy! The hardest thing and the right thing are usually the same thing!

It would take hours and maybe even days to seed the State Tournament. Do I like seeing these matches early on....no. But it would be almost impossible without head to heads and common opponents. Case in point:

Ryle wrestles a lot in Ohio. I would bet most of the Western KY schools have not seen them.

Johnson Central has only wrestled in KY a handful of times. How would we seed them?

It's not as easy as it sounds.

Some say we should only seed the Region Champs. How would that work this year at:

106 - Both #1 and #2 are in Region 1

132 - Both #3 and #4 are in Region 6

138 - Both #2 and #3 are in Region 1

182 - Both #1 and #2 are in Region 4

195 - Both #2 and #3 are in Region 4

220 - Both #2 and #4 are in Region 1

This is my arguement. how can you expect someone from WK or a team that is far away to see some of these teams like a ryle, Johnson central, campbell co. That wrestle out of state often. I see this being an issue when it comes down to seeding.

For example.. John smith comes into the state as the region champ but is 20-13 with all losses to out of state. How do you seed it if they wrestle a lot out of state... no head to head or common opponents

Something that could be looked at is seeding return state placers IF and only if they win their region. Tennessee has done it for years. it has been successful.

Just my 2 sense. Normally don't speak on these topics. I do think that makes our state tournament special because yoU could potentially end up with a 3rd Rd match being a 1 vs. 2

Sounds really not good..

Sounds really not good....

The thing about seeding is that no matter how bad we want it, or even if we take the time to do it for them, khsaa is the ones in charge and they don't listen. It's clear they want full control and do not want our opinion or help to grow our sport. I don't believe a coach McCoy is against seeding, I believe he is telling us what the khsaa is going to say. Maybe one day if the administration changes at khsaa, you may see change. But till that point, I believe it's pointless to hope for it.

You're absolutely correct!!

Some have faith that it will happen, others have hope it happens, But there is no love for the KHSAA

It is absolutely ridiculous to think Coach McCoy doesn't want to improve the logistical issues we deal with in our state.People get on here hiding behind a username and b$#!h and complain when they have absolutely no idea of the steps it takes to get something accomplished. The KHSAA seems to just defer to the NFHS and call it a day. We have region reps and someone who consults with the KHSAA advisory committee and they never do what the Coaches Association recommends.

The reality is that the KHSAA won't go along with anything they perceive as more work. Based on what I know about Coach McCoy I'm sure he would get behind anything that improves our sport, but may have some questions about this sort of process.

The way we view it with the KSWA is that it is some work and time and it won't be perfect, but we are trying to do what is best for the kids. It is difficult to find head-to-head and common opponents at MS (teams don't travel as much and some of these top kids are wrestling varsity some), but we work through the process and do the best we can. A random draw has a 50/50 shot of putting the 2 best kids together while seeding can definitely improve on that.

If we look at 113 for example who in their right mind would place two prior state champs in a bracket where they hit in the quarters? Heck people were talking about not going to the dragon again based on the initial seeding that did stuff like this. So why is it ok at state?

Well said Ranger

I am for seeding the tournament. It has bit my kids in the butt several times. I apologize if stating facts makes me a negative nancy.  My whole point is, several people get on here and demand change and call those that don't make it happen crazy, negative, and not out for what is best for the sport. The problem is those same people have no clue the process it takes or what has been attempted in the past to make these changes. And again Crazyhorse....my shorts are not to tight. I have not worn shorts in a bout 20 years....lol. Get to know me and maybe you will see what I am all about.

Honestly I see the concern and reason for the argument.  However, where I live the best two teams in the state for bball are not only the same region, but they are in the same town and therefore district.  One of the teams typically wins the state or makes the final while the other never makes it out of districts.  It is unfortunate but it isn't exactly anything new in any other sport, whether it's amateur or professional.  For example, do we really think the best two teams in the NFL are always from opposite conferences?  No, but that is what we always get in the superbowl.  If you 'seeded' the tournament, you would have to 'reseed' the tournament after the skin assessments wouldn't you?  As I recall there were several high profile 'X outs' prior to last years tournament.

I can buy the argument for the way other sports are handled (although I hate using the basketball analogy) EXCEPT why then do we use a random draw. Why not just always match up region 1 v region 2 like other sports do? I believe the random draw is just HOPING that it works out.

what I am hearing is this, Even if a seed comittee of Coaches, elected by Coaches ,were to get together and do the work to seed the Tournament. thereby causing the KHSAA no additional work they still would not do it for fear of losing CONTROL.

   I remember last year when they were going to stop the finals by themselves under the lights that such a firestorm of controvercy

erupted, people were talking to their senators, swarming the KHSAA with phone calls and it was being discussed on the radio.

The public outrage caused them to change their decision. I relise this topic does not have the same universal support, and as such it will not turn their heads. even though it would be welcomed by most.

I would never get on here and demand change because everyone should know this is just a discussion forum.we can only hope that the overwhelming amout of people that believe this is injustice to the kids get their point to the powers that be.Like i said before nobody ever thought the ncaa would have a playoff for football but guess what enough complaints sometimes pays off. I Andy Bindner never will hide behind a screen name when fighting for what is right.If you believe this wrong voice your opinion you never know one day it could happen.

Here is how you make it happen.....

Get an Athletic Director to back it and put a proposal in writing and be willing to fight it. Than it goes to the Board of Control for discussion and approval or denial. See.....it's not as easy as the coaches association saying this needs to happen.

Thanks Chris. That is good info to have. Do we know if anyone has gone down this path in the past?

Here is how you make it happen.....

Get an Athletic Director to back it and put a proposal in writing and be willing to fight it. Than it goes to the Board of Control for discussion and approval or denial. See.....it's not as easy as the coaches association saying this needs to happen.

Well lets get on this asap. States in a few weeks.

Thanks cmccoy for giving us a way to try and get the ball rolling but it will take a coach that has a strong relationship with an AD to possibly get any response. Heck if i brought it up to an AD they would see me as just a disgruntled parent. Thanks for the info

No one would ever think that about you WHS98. lol

cmccoy, do we think this is possible in just a few short weeks?

 

I may have a way I could help if needed. 

It is not possible this season. The board of control only meets so often. The next meeting is in April.