Ok video completed and ready for viewing. Stay tuned for updates over the next week or so. 

Here are the first two all star match ups for the Kentucky All-Star Classic presented by Wrestling Addix:

113 Tylan Tucker (Woodford County) vs. Michael Mattox (Harrison County) 

160 Max Andreoni (Woodford County) vs. Andrew Ackley (Nelson County)

11 more match ups coming soon...

This is going to be awesome, great showcase of some of KYs best

Have you talked about who will officiate the matches?  just wondering...

yes I believe we have it covered

Great way to promote the sport!

Im sure you guys have remembered by now but it was Austin Cook vs Michael Mattox for 5th place at 113

yep. My wife reminded me of that as soon as she watched the video. 

Please keep us posted. Myself and Roger Jr will ensure we are there to support the sport. Cant wait to watch some great wrestling. let me know if there is anything I can do to help on our end. Roger Y Sr.

can you say who will be covering?

So Ryan Moore vs who at 120 hopefully Saul ?

Cost of admission?

Live steaming?

podcast?

Pay per view?

Great idea!  Hopefully we cover each weight class with the top kids when it's all said and done.  

1. Erdman vs. Binder?
2. Johnson vs. Vasquez?
3. Brown vs. Ervin?
4. Moore vs. Ervin?
5. Sheffer vs. Duncan?
6. Barton vs. Duncan....to settle the take down debate?
7. Heidorf vs. Blanton?
8. Cornett vs. Frankrone?
9. Portman vs. Cornett?
10. Reed vs. Male 220...name slipping me

There's a few possibilities that may be fun to watch.  Could be off by 20 lbs with some matchups at this point, but fun to think about the possibilities.

We will post a flyer with some detail for all the fans/spectators. Bottom line is no one is trying to make this a fundraiser (just cover costs). 

Not spoiling any match-up announcements. They will be coming. Soon. Hopefully a couple more tonight. 

Next up:

138 Angel Vasquez (Lafayette) vs. Trent Johnson (John Hardin)

170 Casey Cornett (Simon Kenton) vs. Jonathan Little (North Hardin)

Next weights to be released: 145, 182

Thats a heck of a wife lol

when can we expect the next release of matches. we are all anxiously awaiting. 

145: Jackson Oxford (Union Co) vs Mason Smith (Walton-Verona)

182: Elijah Allgeier (St Xavier) vs Max Emerson (Oldham Co)

Announced so far:

113: Tucker v Mattox

138: Vasquez v Johnson

145: Oxford v Smith

160: Ackley v Andreoni

170: Cornett v Little

182: Allgeier v Emerson

next weights announced 106 and 120

well we know Moore will be one of the picks at 120 lol.  Hope to see him matched up with Saul or even Tucker Hurst if he can get down there.

and I don't mean to imply Moore isn't worthy he is obvs one of the best young lower weights in the state and will be on top of the podium at state sooner rather than later just that I think its safe to assume he got an invite to this exhibition.

Yeah I kinda let that one slip. Jason had me rattled doing it in the car. 

Here is the flyer for the All Star classic

allstar classic.pdf

which one is Beavis ?

uh that would be you

we will call you in for an interview when highlands starts up their program. Ha ha

Remaining matchups??

We planned to record/post one from IHPO but it was way too hectic. Then Dutch went out of town for work. Hoping to get the next one up tonight. Maybe along with 106 and 120 we will do 220 and 152. 

One more lunch and heading to the airport. 

Travel delay kept us from making video. Sorry. We will get it posted tomorrow night around 6:30 pm. 

LET DOWN... 

what will the singlets look like, will there be a blue and red team? how will the wrestlers be divided? who will be coaching? sorry so many questions. 

We will have a video posted tonight.  We will be sure to answer your questions. 

Would love to see this event grow to maybe adding middle school maybe another state in the future ? 

Announcements tonight:

145 update - Oxford out Jordan Kidwell (Cooper) in

106 - Blake Roth (Walton-Verona) v Nate Wheeler (St Xavier)

120 - Ryan Moore (Walton-Verona) v Tucker Hurst (Woodford Co)

152 - Brady Emerson (Oldham Co) v Andrew Bailey (Cooper)

220 - Brandon Reed (Iroquois) v Colin Portman (North Oldham)

Next announcements Sunday will be 126, 132, additional 152 match, additional 160 match, 195

Good work on the camera tonight by my bodyguard (ha ha long story) Big John Stud. 

Lets be honest here this is never going to be a true allstar tournament as long as it is before the season.Just look at all the other sports and you will see that all their allstar tournaments are after the season.All you have to do is look at the entries- no ERVIN,SHEFFER,ERDMAN,BINDNER,FRANKRONE and some others.Some kids are just not ready in September and why should they? Most of their main goals is in FEBRUARY.AND why wrestle if your not ready and give a kid a mental edge.Love the idea but the timing is bad

Here's hoping the 126 match up is Zane vs Byrce rematch

Not sure everyone wants honest right now. The truth is how many of the kids you mention are "not ready". They all train year round. And if competition in October is such an issue why have you historically traveled to a number of tough preseason events during this same time frame?  Given that the best kids in the country routinely compete before their season in USA preseason nationals, grappler, super32, etc I don't buy the argument that kids aren't ready. I saw a bunch of our state's best go out this weekend and lay it on the line and not care what the date was. 

The bottom line is most of our state's brightest stars will be at John Hardin. Right now we aren't concerned with those who have chosen not to participate. In my mind it is their loss; I choose to focus on making this a great time for those who want to be there. If you aren't on board with that I suggest you stay home. 

Every one competing is in the top 5 multiple guys number 1 ranked guys sounds like an all-star showcase to me. If a guy doesn't want to compete that's understandable. Almost all of the guys ranked in the top ten compete year round he expressed 1 through 3 at every weight were invited so "not being ready" shouldn't be an excuse. Would it be nice to have guys like Saul and so on compete in it of course. Do I blame them if they dont want to give up any edge not really. Its not a bad timing issue its more of some kids dont care about giving up a preseason loss and want to put on a show in a nice event and some kids dont want to risk injury or a loss I guess I understand both sides.

Like i said its a great idea but just the timing is bad.but if you think that practicing 3 days a week is the same as 6 or 7 your sadly mIstaken. I watched kids lIke Vega and Frankrone do very little in the off season but how did they do in FEB.

Lets be honest here this is never going to be a true allstar tournament as long as it is before the season.Just look at all the other sports and you will see that all their allstar tournaments are after the season.All you have to do is look at the entries- no ERVIN,SHEFFER,ERDMAN,BINDNER,FRANKRONE and some others.Some kids are just not ready in September and why should they? Most of their main goals is in FEBRUARY.AND why wrestle if your not ready and give a kid a mental edge.Love the idea but the timing is bad

Zane against anyone in the top 11 is an allstar worthy matchup 

But no one ever said this was going to be some great Mt Everest of accomplishments. So why does it matter if a kid is at his peak?  Was your kid at his peak at last years IHPO or grappler fall classic last year?  He wasn't practicing every day of the week so I guess not. So why did he go?  

This is a preseason fun event. A chance to scrap with another top kid around your weight and put on a show for the fans of Kentucky wrestling. No one's record will be affected or place in history will change based on this one match. 

This is going to be a great event great job with the guys you got. Hopefully these guys that aren't ready to wrestle now will be able to catch up by Feb to put on a good show then.

First off you have no idea how much my son is training. Plus did you see him entered at IHPO no because he was not practicing enough.Funny how you dont buy it but if you read your post about the finals you said if you were going 2-2-2 it would have been a different story.Why did you say that?because your son and almost all the kids that went to indiana were from etc.Etc has been practicing all summer and you felt like ryan was in better shape.and thats great i am not knocking them kids at all i wish aj would of been practicing but he like many other kids take a break plus he had an injury.There is nothing wrong with that.and yes he said he would wrestle in the allstar tournament but i advised him it was not a good idea with his lack of training.he has really picked it up now same as alot of other kids but as of right now its no secret that regulars at etc are in much better shape.

I don't usually say much about my own kids on here but I will respond with this. Yes my comment was Ryan wins a 2-2-2 match. But I guarantee you this he is nowhere near in-season shape. 

Didn't claim to know how much your kid trains. Just asked the question. Was he training 6 days a week last year when it was advisable to participate in multiple preseason events?

Well to answer your question its 5 days a week.they have conditioning now .he gets 5-2hr secessions every other weekend and he is getting some privates so he can be ready by oct.31st. Never believed in wrestling out of shape and he was gassed at bgsg and i would not pay money for a national for him to be in terrible shape

Plus if ryan is no where near mid season form and you all hit it pretty hard this summer then think about the kids that didn't do much? Thats my point. Great idea for a tournament but IMO just kind of bad timing. Maybe next year get some commitments early and all the kids will train and it will be even better to watch.

Again the question was last year. And as far as I know ETC is just 3 days a week which is not sufficient according to your earlier comment. And we only make it twice a week so if that is hitting it hard yes he did. And I'm pretty sure Decesare and most of the kids you listed have done that much and more. 

Enough of this negativity. How about the singlets the all-stars will be sporting on October 4. 

Love the idea of a preseason all star exhibition. Great for the sport.  The kids who chose to compete will also be much better for it come mid-season, win or lose. I can't imagine telling a kid that was chosen for the All-Star lineup to skip it because he isn't in top form yet and might lose a meaningless match. Makes zero sense. You can get hurt any day, even off the mat. When an opportunity arises to challenge yourself and go hard for 6 minutes with a top guy in or near your weight class you jump at that chance. That is what champions do.

I cant get the image to load Ranger? I'll try it on my ipad. Keep up the good work, I love the idea. It will do nothing but positive things for KY. 

Not sure what the issue with the pics is. Maybe it's because I am loading from my phone. Let's try a different route. 

Lets see if this works.  Hopefully we can continue to talk about pro's of this tournament and not the con's.

Once again thank you for all the support from multiple people around the state.

Ok Dutch comes through for us. I can see the singlets. Let us know if anyone else is having trouble. 

Looks good guys. 

AWESOME SINGLETS!!!!  I can't wait. I think it will give a lot of the younger guys dedicated to the sport something to strive for. good job guys.

I know me and my son are super excited to see the match ups. Almost his entire wrestling team will be attending. This is going to be a great opportunity for these boys to see what awaits for them and if anything will hopefully entice them to train/practice even harder. I do not see how anyone cannot see this as a positive prestart to the season.  Thanks to all those who have set this up. We have to start somewhere to showcase KY HS Wrestling talent, why not here.

Thats awesome!!!  Our hope is that we will have a full house in attendance.  Hopefully we can get more teams to come.  I would love to see as many youth teams in attendance as possible.  I know when my son was a youth wrestler he really looked up to these high school wrestlers.

OK I'm sorry.  Are you kidding me? 

How can someone complain about someone holding an event for wrestling.  I don't care if the #s 9 and 10 were wrestling in the event.  It's still a wrestling event.  We are wrestlers, we know its different than most other sports.  How many pick up wrestling matches do you see when you drive down the streets of a community?  You see pick up basketball, football, baseball, even volleyball games.  Heck for that matter, corn hole games.  

Now don't get me wrong.  I'm not a big fan of year round competition.  I believe it is what is killing our sport along with all the other sports (but that's another argument). I also will not be attending the event. To far for me to travel.  (If it's over 45 minutes its to far for me to travel).  

That does not mean that it is not a great event.  I think it is wonderful that these kids and adults are getting together to help promote wrestling.  We need more of these events.  We need more open practice rooms in the off season (There is not one in Nky).  I say open so that kids can come whenever and how often they can or want to.  (once again another argument). You can't claim it's not a good event because Ervin or Frankrone is not there.  I guess it was not a state finals last year since D. Lampe was not there. 

So lets look at this for what it really is.  An opportunity for fans and wrestlers alike to get together and see some good competitive wrestling.  Will it be as exciting as the state finals?  I hope not.  This is a pre-season event or All star event.  Neither of which should or will be taken seriously.  Go to the event if you can and have fun seeing some of our best wrestlers in the state compete.  Eat a hot dog, buy a shirt laugh, cheer and have fun.  After the event is over get together with some of the wrestling people you have not seen since the state tourney. 

I think this quote is needed again. 

These are the opinions of GOO.  Nothing more and nothing less.  You can take them or ignore them.  In the grand scope of things it really does not matter.  

GOO OUT. 

Come on goo catch a ride down with someone. You are our resident wrestling historian. You should be there. 

As for open rooms we've had workouts going since May often with more kids outside our team than in participating.  It's not super close for you guys but we are in n ky. 

Thanks for your perspective. 

Looks like we aren't the only ones who hold  a pre-season allstar wrestling event. Just saying..

Funny how people just pick small things out of a post to try and turn things ..well negative.. If i am not mistaken i said the tournament was a great idea.I also believe i complimented etc.kids for being in such good shape this time of year.I stated that most sports have allstar tournaments after the season.Now who wants to watch a kid wrestle that by the 3rd period is so gassed he just lays there? I just expressed some thoughts on how i thought the tournament might be better.I just think when you have talent like 2 state champs and 2 other 2 time state champs people would like to see some of these top match ups going at it.but like someone said it gives some other kids a chance.And yes i told aj if he wasn't in shape why wrestle , so if you think thats wrong you may not know how physically demanding this sport is.Not that he has to win but i don't want him out there just stalling.what good does that do him or the people that paid to watch

Are you guys really considered Nky?    Whew I ;thought Ryle was far. 

Opps.  Must have missed that one.  Wish I would have known.  I know at least 1 kid that would have tried to be there.  Heck I would have even taken him.  Maybe next year.  

I kind of would like to see this event.  But since the weekend is already full, I don't think I could swing it.  But if GOO Jr. wants to go and he drives maybe, but don't hold your breath on that one. 

Ohh by the way. I want one of those singlets.  Do you have one in extra extra extra fat and old?  If you need me to wrestle for it, I could maybe give you 10 or 15 seconds on the mat.  

now that's something I would be willing to travel for!

Announcements tonight:

120 change - Austin Cook (St Xavier) in for Hurst

126 - Zane Brown (Male) v Joey Roberts (Woodford Co)

132 - Keegan Duncan (Trinity) v Jordan Monroe (Cooper)

152 additional match - Derrick Smallwood (John Hardin) v Tristan Badida (Conner)

160 additional match - Hudson Heidorf (Trinity) v Raymond Williams (North Hardin)

Half match announcement:

195 - Tyler Frankrone (Trinity) v special guest

Hey hey glad to hear i was worthy enough to make the video plus glad to see frankrone is in.You might want to get 2 106s to wrestle him but i am still picking frankrone.lol.Being that you all didn't give your picks i will give mine.I predict every ETC kid that was consistent this summer and wrestled a couple tournaments will win.Not trying to be bias but a firm believer in the conditioning aspect plus if a kid can get off the couch (just a figure of speech)and beat the likes of them kids their pretty bad news.But i really have no idea how much the other kids have trained i just know how passinate the founder of etc is about making practice.hope you all have a good turnout.

Ranger, any particular reason Tyler Storck wasn't invited at 120? I think as hard as he's worked this summer he'd get the nod. I understand you want to entertain the masses but I couldn't think of a better match; Moore v. Storck. I mean Dutch did say in the video he's (Storck)  liable to finish top 3 or 4 at State this year. If Cook backs out hope you'll consider him. Good luck!

Storck didn't place last year.  Cook did.  That's my guess.

Gotcha. 

Are the weights all scratch weights (106 is actually 106 at weigh-ins)?

They have to be within 5 lbs.

Thanks

Wow, this looks to be a very exciting and challenging preseason tournament!  If possible could you list all the matches and what place each of the wrestlers finished at state last year? 

Q:  Why don't the kids just wrestle in the weight classes, they weight?

I don't see the need to give a weight allowance, does the super 32 give a weight allowance?

So what if he is in the next weight class up, from what he might wrestle in regular season.

Either way sound like a great event, hop to see a big turn out.

A lot of differences between this event and Super32, so I don't think you can compare, but the bottom line is we don't want weight to be a huge issue in participation. 

I totally understand the weight allowance for a pre-season event but this close to Super32 I can understand kids wanting to skip this exhibition at a higher weight if they're working on being at scratch weight soon after.

This is 4 weeks prior to Super32. Don't think one affects the other 

I'm pretty sure other all star events gives a weight allowance. Shoot you get a weight allowance at some national tournaments. 

How will the dual be setup? Will the 152 and 160 Bs go first and then light to heavy? Or maybe we can vote on the order and have the "marquee" matches go at the end. Just wondering. 

Cutting weight safely and wanting to maintain it once you get there absolutely takes 4 weeks or longer. 

Thus a weight allowance. 

Besides, how many kids do we have going to Super32?  Typically just a few. And at least a couple of those kids are generally making weight for other events as well. Just not understanding how getting within 5 pounds on Oct 4 is a major hurdle to making weight on Oct 30. Especially when most of these kids were asked to participate at least a month out. 

Thanks for the pm wristcontrol. Understand a little better where you are coming from. 

While i respect the heck out of what you are doing, I will say alot of people focus too much on tournaments and not enough on trianing. My philosophy has always been compete in a few big tournaments and train the rest of the time.  Cutting weight all year takes its toll on alot of kids.  Not all but a lot.

Ranger and Dutch, this is 3pm central time correct? 

3pm eastern for wrestling to kick off

CAM....In response to your question about where the wrestlers competing in the 2015 Wrestling All-Star Classic placed in last years Kentucky State Tournament below is what I was able to find:

106:  Blake Roth - 8th @ 106
         Nate Wheeler - DNP @ 106
113:  Tylan Tucker - 3rd @ 106
          Michael Maltox - 5th @ 113
120:  Ryan Moore - 3rd @ 113
         Austin Cook - 6th @ 113
126:  Zane Brown - 2nd @ 120
         Joey Roberts - 3rd @ 120
132:  Keegan Duncan - STATE CHAMPION @ 132
         Jordan Monroe - 4th @ 126
138:  Angel Vasquez - STATE CHAMPION @ 138
         Trent Johnson - 4th @ 138
145:  Mason Smith - 3rd @ 132
         Jordan Kidwell - 7th @ 152
152A:  Brady Emerson - 3rd @ 138
           Andrew Bailey - DNP @ 145
152B:  Derrick Smallwood - 3rd @ 145
           Tristan Badida - 6th @ 152
160A:  Andrew Ackley - 2nd @ 152
           Max Andreoni - 2nd @ 145
160B:  Hudson Heidorf - 5th @ 145
           Raymond Williams - DNP @ 152
170:  Casey Cornett - 3rd @ 182
         Jonathan Little - 5th @ 160
182:  Elijah Allgeier - DNP 
         Max Emerson - 3rd @ 160
195: Tyler Frankrone - STATE CHAMPION @ 182
         Cael Sanderson - STATE CHAMPION/NCAA CHAMPION/OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL
220:  Brandon Reed - 2nd @ 220
         Colin Portman - 4th @ 195

Summary...3 State Champions, 22 State Placers and 4 DNP.  Sorry about reveling the "Special Guest"  Cael vs Tyler should be interesting!!!

Good stuff there. We will have a program page for those in attendance with this information and a little more. 

Tyler won't quite be wrestling Cael, but he will have a challenge. He will be wrestling Andrew Davison from Indiana who was a double cadet AA at Fargo this summer and USA folkstyle national champ. 

Does anyone know when the Doors will be open to the public to start seating at John Hardin.

We will be there a bit early with weigh ins starting at noon, but that is a long time to sit in the gym waiting for wrestling to start. Bottom line, any time after noon you should be able to enter the gym. 

Angel from what i hear wont be there

Heading over to John Hardin to watch the first (hopefully of many more to come each year) Ky. All Star Dual.  Great way to kick off the season.  Come out and watch most of Kentucky's top wrestlers battle it out.

Any updates for those of us that couldn't make it?

Are you all going to do a summary video for the event?

Definitely doing a post event video. Give us a couple days as I am heading out of town for fall break with the family for a few days. 

Had a blast today. A lot of great matches with only 1 match not going the distance. All 30 of those kids came to wrestle. I can't wait to see how this grows in the years to come. 

General Summary:

Blue team won! Derek Smallwood got MOW. Wheeler beat Roth, Tucker beat Mattox, Moore beat Cook, Brown beat Roberts, Duncan beat Monroe, Johnson beat Miles, Smith beat Kidwell, Emerson beat Bailey, Smallwood beat Badida, Andreoni beat Ackley, Heidorf beat Williams, Cornett beat Little, Emerson beat Allgeier, Frankrone beat Davison(IN), Portman beat Reed.

It was a great event. Yes we plan to do a video. 

Great event! Nice kickstart to the season! 

Great inaugural event!  I like the boy's shirts giving them credit for taking on the challenge.  If the KY wrestling community supports this event it will grow into one that everyone looks forrward to each year.  Middle school coaches really need to make an effort to get their kids out to watch as well as the teammates of the ones wrestling.  Getting to see nationally ranked kids scrapping locally was a treat.  The Union boys need to give this event more consideration down the road.

Had a few people ask for match results. We will go into more detail in our video, but here are scores:

106 - Wheeler over Roth 9-4

113 - Tucker over Mattox 11-2

120 - Moore over Cook 12-0

126 - Brown over Roberts 5-3

132 - Duncan over Monroe 11-5

138 - Johnson over Miles 6-2

145 - Smith over Kidwell 13-4

152 - B Emerson over Bailey 4-2 (OT)

152 - Smallwood over Badida 21-11

160 - Andreoni over Ackley 8-4

160 - Heidorf over Williams 7-3

170 - Cornett over Little PIN

182 - M Emerson over Allgeier 4-1

195 - Frankrone over Davison 5-3 (these guys were as light or lighter than the 182s)

220 - Portman over Reed 3-1

A lot of good matchups that were tight through the end. 

One last discussion on the event 

Nice recap video. Will the matches be posted online anywhere? Love the idea of including the MS studs next year possibly. 

OK just because its me.  

Wow Dutch a little harsh there.  What I don't think you realize is that many families don't revolve their lives around one of there kids sports.  You and many others may do this but there are many more who don't.  Vacations, family events, and equal time to their other kids activities, and to their wrestlers other activities are all in the equation.  

And just my opinion but, spending 350 plus days a year dedicated to one sport is what is killing all sports.  It is what we in the wrestling community have complained about for years with the football coaches.  I heard another coach make this comment at the coaches clinic.  "The middle class wrestlers are becoming obsolete." When I sit back and think about it, I see what he was talking about.  

OK thats my devils advocate. 

I do however believe that this is a great event.  Those who participate and spectated and especially those who put it together should be praised.  I personally did not get to see it but I would have liked to.  (to many other responsibilities).  I believe with more positive advertizement and word of mouth this event could grow event bigger.  Maybe even a small pre season all star tourney. (4 man bracket all star event).  Let it be known that the top 4 underclassmen placers in each wt. class may recieve an invite.  That way you will have them contacting you instead of the other way around. 

Great job    and

These are the opinions of GOO nothing more and nothing less.  Take them or leave them.  It makes no difference in the grand scope of things. 

GOO out. 

GOO I will give a response on behalf of Dutch. I think he is feeling a little bit of the pain I have dealt with for years. You can't win. No matter what you do or don't do someone will complain. I don't think his comments were directed at the middle class wrestler. Quite the opposite. Most, and actually nearly all, of the complaints we hear are from the full time kids (really parents). At least half of the kids who declined were kids who are full time wrestlers who stay pretty active year round and travel all over the place. So when those same people complain or get mad when they don't get the benefit of the doubt with rankings or being included on events/teams it gets very very frustrating. At least once every year I tell myself I'm not doing this any more just because of the whining. For every one person who gets on here and says "great job and thanks" there are 10 more sending texts and emails and cussing us (literally) for something they say doesn't matter. So again Dutch was probably just blowing off some steam in a rather kind way. 

Bottom line is this. In the last 15 years of doing rankings I've gained a lot of headaches, lost sleep, and a Pepsi from some one at the Dungeon a few years ago. In 4+ years on the ms/youth board and coaching team ky I got a lot more headaches, even less sleep, and received some t-shirts. Now when we try to take another step forward that almost everyone agrees was a good thing we still hear whining and whining. Feedback and suggestions with recommendations are encouraged. Not whining and complaining. 

Makes me wonder if I should have spent half of the hours I've given away on my own kid and team. Heck he might be Cary Kolat getting ready for the midlands. 

Amen Ranger I don't post much but I feel this is worth taking the time. In that video I heard positive thing said through out about every kid but let's focus on one thing that wasn't directed at any one person. There was talk about trying to have two matches a weight class in an attempt to involve as many as possible but there wasn't enough response. I know personally that those putting this event on had one intent that was to try to create an event that would help grow KY wrestling. There are as many opinions on how to do that as there are kids that wrestle. 

As for the middle class wrestler becoming obsolete well I can tell you that isn't occurring in OH NJ PA and many other states. I can guarantee that there are many more year round wrestlers there. So is the answer that those kids that are wired to train at the highest level and want to wrestle in college are hurting the rest. Absolutely the easiest way to get kids to come out and grow the sport is to have great kids out there setting a high standard, everybody wants to be on a team with good kids. If I'm wrong why is it Trinity football has a 100 kids come out for freshman football and a large % know they aren't going to see the field they want to be on a winning program, that's human nature. So my point is a winning program will bring out more kids which equals more middle class wrestlers. 

As for Dutch personally he has two other son's that play in their school's band and that is almost year round. So he keeps balance with all his kids.

Hey I'm just making an observation here.  I fully support anything that anyone wants to do with wrestling.  Always have and always will.  I may not participate in all the things that are offered but that is my prerogative.  I personally would have been a year round guy in my day if it was possible.  I did as much as I could in my day and traveled on my own with a couple of wresting friends as far as my ole jalopy would take us. I'm just trying to stand up for the "have nots" or at least making them heard.  Ranger knows I've been on both ends of the spectrum.  I spend many years with the "have's" at the beginning of my wrestling career and many many years with the "have nots" at the end of my wrestling career.  

I didn't really watch all the video just fast forwarded to the ones I was really interested in.  And was not sure who Dutch was referring to.  Just kind of hit a nerve and I made my point.  In no way do I think dutch is a negative Nancy or anything like that.  

Oh and I totally understand your frustration Ranger.  I for one hardly ever try to complain about the efforts you make.  I make some suggestions whenever possible and give my opinions (as I did here).  But I don't believe I've actually complained.  At least not the way most do.  I complained usually because I did not want one of our kids ranked or ranked high. 

East;  I would love to see how OH Pa and NJ progressed to where they are now.  Surely there were growing pains.  I think that KY is in one of those growing pains now.  When I mention middle class wrestlers I'm suggesting those that don't start until 8-9 grade or kids who can't participate year round.  Open mats in Nky were almost non existent this year, you could only attend SK if you were in the Kenton Co. district.  Not sure if Campbell had it or not (didn't hear one way or another) and if they did they usually have it right after school and they start at 2:30 3:00.  Found out WV had it, but missed that info some how, plus that is a long drive for many. 

Yep I know exactly where you are coming from and you usually share your opinion with respectful thoughts and ideas the way it should be done (even when we disagree). Plus you are a knowledgeable guy or at least can admit when you don't know something. Rarely is that the case we are dealing with. 

And Dutch is definitely NOT a negative nancy. Quite the opposite. 

Ok since i feel like i could be one of the people ranger is talking about i will throw my 2 cents worth in.I don't have a problem discussing something in gentleman fashion unless someone starts throwing insults then i can fire back with the best.Your tournament was a great idea and should be built on. Usually most years aj would have been jumping at the chance to be in it.All i have heard since he was 5 yrs old was don't burn that kid out on wrestling and my response was i am not he is burning me out bc he was always wanting to do it.Now he is getting to the end of his hs career and he wanted a break.I thought thr timing was bad other coaches thought the timing was bad but what do you do he is 18 yrs old.So i declined for him.He would have done it but he would have been at about 70% and lost.Then you have people jump in and say it doesn't matter if they win or not.Well all kids aren't the same and i know mine he would have dwelt on it and it would have been a very negative thing for him.Aj needs more work mentally than anything and if he ever gets his head on straight then i have no doubt he will be a state champ.I was one person that always said rankings don't matter.Well like i ssid people are different and your rankings have drove aj crazy.He is just so competitive and when you slight him like you have done in the past it really eats at him.Now i wouldn't just say you slighted him without facts.Freshman year he was unranked and i told him you must have just forgot he was a freshman but that wasn't the case.That year he finished 3rd.1 point from the finals to the eventual winner.Now you cant say ranger he wasn't slighted.His sophomore year you had a kid ranked above him that he beat 3 times(finally loosing 1).You had another kid ranked above him that he beat twice and once majored.His junior year he never moved up to 2nd until the kid you had ranked 2nd tore his acl.You may not like him but you should not let that change the way you rank him.I also say the same thing about refs.Just because they don't like a kid that shouldn't effect the way they call the match.I know rankings are just that but when your local paper only uses them to talk about the top ranked kids then it slights kid that have put in tons of work only to get overlooked and it bothers him to know end.I will be the first to call aj out when he is wrong but i will also be his biggest supporter when he is right(which may not be to often.lol).So you have to know when i seen the kids allstar  shirt where it said on the back BECAUSE I WAS BRAVE ENOUGH. Now to me and aj all that did was call the kids that turned it down scared.I can tell you without a doubt aj wasn't scared.He has wrestled the number1 kid in the nation and the number 4 thats a jr and is already committed to penn st.so there is not a chance in hell he was scared.So if you can't understand how that shirt would upset people then i don't think we could have a realistic debate.You made it a point in your video to call me out about frankrone wrestling but you had to go out of state to get someone it was supposed to be ky alstars.But i totally understand how hard it would be to find someone to wrestle him and they shouldn't be categorized as not brave.They need to be at the top of their game and then its a major task.O well you talked about agreeing to disagree so thats what i wanted to do.

Now ranger here is someone complete opposite of me.  I never wanted GOO Jr. ranked.  I didn't care if he deserved it or not.  I wanted others to be ranked higher than him that probably should not have.  Not that he would rise to the occasion, he was not that kind of kid either. But I wanted to try and make him that way.  

I'm not trying to pick a fight. But this is what has been happening in our society. We can't say or write anything because it upsets others.  You could look at those singlets and say "hey they say All Star on them, my kids an all star and he still is even though he turned the opportunity down."  It makes me sick that we give participation awards and don't keep score with younger kids in many sports. Kids should learn how to lose early and often, then learn how to pick themselves up and work harder to win and be recognized. If a kid is competing in a sport because they want to be recognized then they are doing it for the wrong reason. They should be doing it because they love the sport win or lose.  I understand its more fun to win, but those who really enjoy the sport will continue doing so even if they are not recognized or praised by people they don't even know. 

I'm actually on your side here about burning kids out on wrestling or any sport.  That is why I didn't push GOO jr. to compete year round and pushed for him to compete in other sports.  Now if he would have pushed back and said "I really want to wrestle" I would have allowed him, but I kept the decision on him.  Now I don't know your kid very well.  I've watched him wrestle for many many years now.  In no way do I, or anyone else think that he is an average or below average wrestler.  He is one of the elite, Just being one of the elite is praise enough.  When your in the elite and you compete against the elite, many factors go into winning a match.  In many cases there is wins and losses between wrestlers and no clear #1 is apparent.  

Ranger and his ranking are based on statistics and his own opinion.  Maybe as you said he knows that your son needs to grow mentally therefore he was ranked lower. I really don't know and really don't care why he ranks kids where he does.  Just knowing who the better kids are is good enough for me.  

OK I've rambles on and talked nonsense long enough.  No one understand or cares what I say anyway.  Let me get back to what I do know about.  Wait a minute I don't know anything about anything.  Oh well I'm just like that senile old man on the corner yelling at cars as they pass by. 

GOO out.  

HEY SLOW THAT CAR DOWN!!!!!

No goo i agree with you about rankings but my son don't. I try very hard to use them for motivation for him. That is the mental part i am talking about.He comes to me and doubts his self on rankings. I don't understand it but all kids are different and why it bothers him so much i don't know.If he loses a take down in practice it makes him mad.Thats the way he is and i have learned to deal with it.But i told him i do agree with him based on accomplishments at 138 he should only be 2nd behind Vasquez.If all the tournaments and papers didn't make rankings an issue i don't think he would.plus if they don't matter at all then why does ranger waste his time.

Can't say I always agree with your rankings but I definitely respect you for putting the work in to make them. Like you said, there is no way to please everyone but I'm glad we have someone trying their best. Just ignore all the ungrateful complainers and keep doing your thing.

Pinned500 you start off saying you don't always agree with his rankings and that is my point i didn't agree and voiced my opinion at least if i don't agree with something i have the backbone to say it.So we can't debate without being called ungrateful.lol. like i said if they didn't matter at all then why do the papers,coaches,tournaments, the state tournament all use them. I never said he doesn't put alot of work into it but if going to be the face of the sport it is open for debate

     Saying that the ranking don't matter is painting a broad picture.  I myself think that rankings don't matter to the wrestlers themselves (or at least shouldn't).  They do matter in the fact that it has helped promote the world of high school wrestling to the general public.  It keeps people interested in wrestling where in the past it was never discussed.  I'm not sure what coaches use them but if they are used in a seed meeting, I personally chuckle every time they are mentioned. I don't believe I have ever heard them used in a post season tourney (region).  The state tourney uses it to hype the event.  

     Ranger and I have had several of these debates in the past about rankings.  If I could "have my cake and eat it to" I would like for the rankings not to be seen by the wrestlers.  But that is not possible.  If it could only be vewed by the spectators and media to promote wrestling that would be great.

     And before anyone else says it.  Yes I have had my fair share of cake, actually pbobably more than my fair share. 

     There is nothing wrong with a little debate here and there.  I certainly don't agree with everything others say.  But I'll state my opinion and move on.  I have been known on very rare ocations to change my mind or at least lean a little closer to anothers point of view.  One that I may not have seen or heard if not for a spirited debate. But shoot lets keep the playground namecalling out of it.  

BUT HEY ITS THE SECOND DAY OF WRESTLING LET THE FUN BEGIN!!!!!

I probably shouldn't have been so vague but my comment was targeted towards all of the entitled complainers that contribute nothing towards the discussion, not you WHS98, I absolutely agree that you should voice your opinion. Just figured I'd give my thoughts towards the rankings and some of the hate towards them.

Yes WH98 you have given me your fair share of grief, but you were very straightforward and up front when I contacted you about the all star meet. I would hope that someone else in the house would eventually learn that curse words and disrespect will never earn him any rankings credit. My goal is to be right so holding a grudge only hurts my accuracy and gains me exactly nothing. And trust me there are a few guys who are not as "friendly" with me anymore over this stuff. Mind boggling. Not sure what to say regarding the conspiracy theory on the shirts. In order for that to be effective as some have interpreted we should have been more direct. I spoke with Coach Matney and his kids are on the football field as well as Meiman. Barton was out due to injury. Was I referring to them as well?

At the moment I'm on the road and can't reference my historical files, but I can pretty well recall last years situation. Elijah Owens was a returning 5th placer at 126. AJ Bindner was 8th at 113. We can debate the details of those placements (I was pretty focused on the match the injury occurred), but when I placed them both at 132 I gave the edge to Owens (higher placer at closer weight). 

The big thing most of the detractors fail to recognize is this: there is more than one kid to follow in KY. You see every one of your kids matches although sometimes don't recall all of the losses. Trackwrestling has helped a ton (when coaches keep it up to date), but there is still only so much time in the day. So results sometimes get missed or don't show up in sync with the rankings. 

As for debates I'm good with them especially off line (where WH98 has done most of his). Heck Dutch has probably disagreed about 100 times with me in the last month. 

So curse words and disrespect does not gain him anything in the rankings????? You just proved my point.What in the heck does that have to do with a kids ranking.Ya my kid gets mad and cusses do i agree no,but its ok for a kid to cry like a baby at practice?? If being competitive and cursing. Is the worst thing he does compared to what some kids are doing nowadays,i will be fine with that.Both very childish and you know what i mean.So your going to bring up an  8th place finish where he got a concussion and his nose was sideways and he had to ff . He has never at any level in ky. ,ele,ms or hs finished worse than 3rd except for that year.So i guess you think he was going to lose that match.lol. how did mason do against keegan.ya thought so. If keegan went 138 i am 99% sure he would be ranked number 1.and aj has wrestled him better than anyone ,loosing all 4 matches by 2 points or less, exactly like i predicted i might add.but you keep ranking on what you see at practice(by the way i know of one lower ranked kid that beat a higher ranked kid a couple weeks ago at practice.shouldn't he move up??no.... its only if you see it ) .Practice, a kids personality,who his parents are ,what school he wrestles for,what club he wrestles for should never factor into rankings ,only results. Enough said,we will see you this season and i well bet whatever you want that whatever weight aj goes he will beat your 4th place ranking.I am done.like the guy said last year when you were debating about yenter its your site and you cant disagree with the great ranger. By the way who was right about yenter??

Never claimed to be right 100% of the time. Would be stupid to do so. But I will say I do a fairly good job. You think you can do better then knock yourself out. How 'bout this oh great seer of all rankings. Let's have a contest. And yes it has to include all the weights; not just where you kid "chooses" to go. 

Oh by the way, yes I would assume that a kid would lose a match when the brackets advances the other kid and he is losing at the time he injury defaults. 

AND Those 138 rankings were set long before I saw those matches at practice. So don't look for excuses. 

Oh why not one more thing. Yes if all else is equal then the kid who cussed me does NOT get the benefit of the doubt. I'm comfortable admitting that. But that is not the overriding factor. 

Ranger are you really serious.  People verbally abuse you in person, and physically do things to you, (ie. dump coke on you?) Over the rankings? Shoot if that is happening then you are definatly a bigger man than myself.  I personally would have left those individuals off the rankings and stated why I left them out.  

We are just gonna have to buy you a "Pope shield".  I plexi glass box for you to travel around in.  Maybe Dutch can stand guard next to you with a nerf gun and Supper Soaker, for those unrully enough to get close to the "Pope shield" 

Ok ranger first off let me apologize for my tactics. I have always liked you in years past and defended you to aj.He has said for years dad ranger just don't like me. My replie was always oh aj thats not true. Well i won't name names but i heard through the grapevine that was true.So i decided to just try and find out for myself.That is what the post were for.Then when you made the comment about cusing I knew he was right.So let me get this right.You think it would be ok if for example here in Louisville the person or persons doing the rankings ranked Trinty ahead of male in football because the trinity players have better behavior than male players.If so then thats where we totally disagree.You will never get on here and hear me say aj is any kind of angel.Now that would be stupid.And in my mind you liked to get a rise out of him(knowing his compulsive personality) just to watch him get mad,and we all know he would.I know he tried to do the same to you by making comments about saul beatting ryan.Not much different in my mind.I not going to compete with you on rankings its a tough job and yes i only focus on the weights i know something about.Aj can get upset and cuss many other kids cuss but know how to not do it around adults.But i am getting ready to watch football and i challenge you to watch it all day and see just how many players and coaches use foul language and these are adults.So its pretty easy to see how society picks it up so easy especially kids.Now on his ranking i will state his case on the other thread were someone is trying to get aj going by his screenname 'iambetterthanaj" lol very creative

---------------------------------

A couple of very very big differences here. First there is a huge difference between not liking someone and not being happy with the way someone acts. In the grand scheme of things I have interacted with AJ very little so hard for anyone to determine I don't like him. Second a huge difference between cussing and "F*** you" to someone. 

And again my statement was "all else equal", then subjective matters come into play. 

okay. i dont like getting on this site at all nor does my dad like me doing it. Even though i have been publicly disrespected by you ranger i wont stoop to that level of behavior. however what i would like to say with all do respect is just ask dutch who he thinks would have won that match? i only wrestled mason all summer that same year....infact you were there. anyways it doesnt matter. but please keep my personal mistakes at practice off line before im forced to have to speak a little bit on your situation. i dont need to justify my ranking thats for my dad. i could care less. but the other competition can thank you for the extra fire i will have everytime i wrestle a kid ranked above me. its all personal ive known that for a long long time. i love watching you and my dad go at it lol. I WILL PROMISE YOU THIS: NOBOBY IN THE STATE TOOK THEIR STATE FINALS LOSS AS WELL AS ME. SO IF I DONT PUT MY MISTAKES IN PRACTICE OUT WHEN THE PUBLIC SEES YOU DONT NEED TO BRING THEM OUT FOR ME. TAKE ME OFF THE RANKINGS DOESNT BOTHER ME... MY FRESHMAN YEAR I DIDNT MAKE THE TOP 25! LOL! IVE ASKED YOU NICELY TO PLEASE KEEP MY BUISNESS OFF HERE THANK YOU. everyone have a great season and best of luck to everyone.

as for the new guy with the funny little jokes lol anybody can hide behind a screen name... why dont you tell me who you really are lol

this site supposed to be fun guys

ranger -i love new shoes pm me and we can make some bets

AJ BINDNER

No practice details coming from me. Nothing close to that. 

And I will let you keep your lunch money. Don't want you missing any meals going up to 145 

ive made enough money off beating your previous kids ranked above me in years past i can spare a few wagers.  Lol

when ranger finally gets fed up and stops doing the rankings you can point to the harassment and whining in this thread for evidence of why.

My only problem with the rankings is that Mikie Klein from Fern Creek High School is not ranked at 106lbs

That's because I heard he ate 13 hot dogs and 22 salted pretzels at the Taylor Swift concert. Topped it off with a trip to Cold Stone after. 

.

Pm me if you think you know so much 

Dang guys, this is all my fault.  

I didn't think my comments were so negative and defamatory that they would start a full out riot.

I didn't mean for this to become an AJ basher. I have watched this young man wrestle since middle school.  Now I've only watched him in mostly post season events.  I believe he is a very talented individual with many higher level skills when it comes to wrestling. I've never seen any negative post or pre match antics, but I really have not watched close enough to know.  

But one thing I do know.  He is a high school wrestler. Like many others who have come before him, many on the same level have made the same mistakes that have been mentioned on here. I personally don't know if any of them are true, and don't really care.  But once again he is still a high school student/kid.  He will make his mistakes, hopefully learn from  them then move onto bigger and grander things in his adult life.  

Now lets allow this wrestler to continue his training and schooling without the banter from the nay sayers.  

Good luck AJ. I hope you have an injury free season along with wrestling your best when the time comes.  If you accomplish this much this year, win or lose you will have a successful season. 

GOO OUT. 

Lol

Thank you goo! Apprieciate the nice comments and your kind level of respect. I wish everyone else the best of luck as well. 

I'm curious forgive my lack of understanding as many of these things are new as when I was in high school not too long ago there wasnt even a WHOS NUMBER #1 tournament LOL....

But the all star classic is new to me

Was this open to all the kids or was this just to headline the top 3 in every weight class?

Couldnt this tournament been open for all the kids to come out and get the reps and then have 

 OPEN finals matches for the top 3 as it was planned out?

For years Kentucky has been doing the same thing over and over, how does building a wrestling community only involve catering to a certain group of kids.....????

We need the state and these schools to be taking our sport more seriously so that especially involves highlighting the ENTIRE sport in our state as a whole,every wrestler we have needs to be motivated to enter big tournaments, shown how to afford the tournaments, what to do, what not to do.... 

TWO HEADS ARE BETTER THAN ONE

And I'm in agreement with some of the previous post, its not really a legit matchup so early before the season, but it definetly isnt a bad idea to go ahead and put them in there.

These Ranking arguements are quite hilarious though!

Only if everyone new those numbers are purely just 3 things

A Prediction where someone is supposed to be

Where the person is supposed to be or currently at

OR Politics

Its just for mental understanding it has nothing to do with how you have to approach your opponent when its time, they are just numbers guys

All-star matches are very common. In the preseason we have had the NWCA All-Star Match for a very long time for college and Flo has created the High School version with WNO. Postseason you have Dapper Dan and the Dream Team Classic which have decades of history between them.

Just because it is new to Kentucky doesn't mean there is no precedent.