I would like to know what everyone else thinks about how refs call stalling in KY. I think the refs call stalling so inconsistent through out the state. I hate watching two guys push each other around the ring for six minuteswithout tking a shot and only get hit for stalling once maybe twice. You see this alot at the heavier weights but now I am starting to see wrestlers (even in the lower weights) lay on the mat or just stay in a good position on bottom and waiting on the top guy to make a mistake. I know coaches are not teaching this to their wrestlers so why are more and more of it happening. I think the refs need to start calling stalling at a much more consistent and faster rate, and that would hel out with this problem.I can't remeber a time in the past couple of years where a kid has got DQ for stalling, but I have seen several cases where it should have happened. What do you all think?

i say that the more stalling calls in kentucky the better

well its that stalling has gone from a wrestler who is tired or is trying to not give up to much team points and more as an actual technique which i guess makes the ref not make as many calls for stalling although in my opinoin the more calls they make the more offensive it would make the wrestlers of ky which would overall make kintucky a better state overall for wrestling

i wrestled at letcher county this weekend..and 1 match i had to pretty much chase the guy down and they wouldnt call stalling on him but they did on me how do u get that?

As a former staller, I always felt like Kentucky officials were tougher on stalling calls than those in West Virginia or Ohio.  I firmly believe that stalling, when done correctly and in the proper situation, is sometimes as good as an attack.  Have the Kentucky officials become more relaxed on stalling in recent years?

alot of guys in there first meet or so are  abd about stalling not in shape and wanting to win and not make mistakes i thought it looked good at state last year compared to the recent years how bad the stalling had been and maybe it will keep inproving with the time

The person who posted this is obviously from seneca stalling is going to happen it's not gonna be called everytime the last three people for the simon kenton seneca dual it was there strategy not to get pinned so they were doing whatever they had to to not get pinned and it didn't work anyways they lost because they had to team points deducted for poor sportsmanship and there coach complaining

What I have ben seeing in the past couple of years includes what most of you are saying, it is becoming a technique theefore it is used more often then it use to be. I think if a kid is laying on his stomach, just not moving in a good down position, running from a man on his feet, or just not taking a shot on his feet when the other guy is clearly being offensive taking shots, then it should be called stalling.

If someone is just going out there trying not to be pinned or trying not to lose by two many points then the ref should penalize them for that and get them off the mat.

ok say the bottom man is trying to break hands off of wrist before he bases up would this be considered stalling

I believe the rules for bottom stalling is to force the top man to "work for a fall" and for the bottom man to "work for an escape."  In my opinion, getting hand control from the bottom is nearly as important to working for an escape as basing up is, and should therefore, not constitute stalling.  Moreover, what some folks view as stalling is what I view as smart wrestling.  If you are winning in the third period from nuetral, it should be the other man's responsibility to force the action and the fact that you have become defensive, while not always a good idea, should not be penalized with a stalling call.

i think it depends on the ref.. i have seen some call one pretty fast but others call one after a while or maybe not even at all..

If both guys are in neutral it is both of their responsibilities to work for takedowns and to stay active, so being defensive if you are ahead is the definition of stalling, not a wrestling technique and should be penalized accordingly.  If you are on top you need to work for a pin and stay off the hips.  the bottom man must work up and try to escape.  One thing for the bottom man is that if he is just being overpowered by the top man than it is not stalling.  In recent years I think leg riding has been given way too much time to sit there and "work" for a pinning combination off of it instead of just riding them and getting hit for stalling which it very well could be. 

Wow!! you are one of those guys that I am talking about. Just because you are up on points does not mean you have the right to stop wrestling. Also yes it is important to gain wrist control but you can not lay on your somach fighting for wrist control as the top man tries to work for a pin, this would be stalling and should be hit by the referee within a short amount of time. Just in case you didn't know wrist control can usually be obtain much better on your knees then laying flat with all of your weight and your opponets weight on your wrist, and what's even better then that is fighting for control on your feet.

I believe the rules for bottom stalling is to force the top man to "work for a fall" and for the bottom man to "work for an escape."  In my opinion, getting hand control from the bottom is nearly as important to working for an escape as basing up is, and should therefore, not constitute stalling.  Moreover, what some folks view as stalling is what I view as smart wrestling.  If you are winning in the third period from nuetral, it should be the other man's responsibility to force the action and the fact that you have become defensive, while not always a good idea, should not be penalized with a stalling call.

Student, I am not trying to discredit what you are saying, I am just looking at it from a different paradigm or outlook.  Lying on you stomach is rarely a good idea, even when you are getting hand control for many worse reasons than stalling.  I was referring to fighting for hand control from the referee's or sit-out positions.  I like the sarcasm though, I bet that fire keeps you from get pinned often. 

As far as neutral is concerned, I was not suggesting that one should run from, aviod, or endlessly circle away from his opponent...that is obviously stalling and will be called.  However, when a wresltle has the lead, he should no longer have to FORCE the action in the match.  In theory, the wrestler who is down in points should already be forcing the aciton and working to gain back lost points, but too many times I have seen wrestlers with the lead run in to force the action only to put themselves in poistions for easy lateral drops, shots, or, my favorite, fireman's carries.  In a nutshell, if you are losing, go try to win...if you are winning make them come to you.  Does that make more sense> 

Student, I am not trying to discredit what you are saying, I am just looking at it from a different paradigm or outlook.  Lying on you stomach is rarely a good idea, even when you are getting hand control for many worse reasons than stalling.  I was referring to fighting for hand control from the referee's or sit-out positions.  I like the sarcasm though, I bet that fire keeps you from get pinned often. 

As far as neutral is concerned, I was not suggesting that one should run from, aviod, or endlessly circle away from his opponent...that is obviously stalling and will be called.  However, when a wresltle has the lead, he should no longer have to FORCE the action in the match.  In theory, the wrestler who is down in points should already be forcing the aciton and working to gain back lost points, but too many times I have seen wrestlers with the lead run in to force the action only to put themselves in poistions for easy lateral drops, shots, or, my favorite, fireman's carries.  In a nutshell, if you are losing, go try to win...if you are winning make them come to you.  Does that make more sense> 

this might be the mindset of many wrestlers, the best wrestlers are always trying to score. Winning is not enough, they are constantly working for a pin or tech. I don't ever recall seeing guys like the murton's or kyle ruscell hanging on with a lead, they worked hard until it was over. Thats why they were in a league of their own.

Student, I am not trying to discredit what you are saying, I am just looking at it from a different paradigm or outlook.  Lying on you stomach is rarely a good idea, even when you are getting hand control for many worse reasons than stalling.  I was referring to fighting for hand control from the referee's or sit-out positions.  I like the sarcasm though, I bet that fire keeps you from get pinned often. 

As far as neutral is concerned, I was not suggesting that one should run from, aviod, or endlessly circle away from his opponent...that is obviously stalling and will be called.  However, when a wresltle has the lead, he should no longer have to FORCE the action in the match.  In theory, the wrestler who is down in points should already be forcing the aciton and working to gain back lost points, but too many times I have seen wrestlers with the lead run in to force the action only to put themselves in poistions for easy lateral drops, shots, or, my favorite, fireman's carries.  In a nutshell, if you are losing, go try to win...if you are winning make them come to you.  Does that make more sense> 

so in that mindset, if this were football and you had a big lead on your opponent, would you put in the second string QB or to you  still use your number 1 guy?

You can't really make a comparison to football because they don't have a penalty for stalling.  But if you want to make the comparison, then yes you have to try to score 100 points every time you step on the field which means leaving the first team in to run up the score because you should be working for a pin or at least to score at all times.

stalling does need to be called more often i hate seeing people just lock up and dance for 6 minutes and i hate seeing peopel ride hips the whole match and do nothing to turn the guy

I apologize if it sounds like I am really mad at you that is simply not the case. What I am mad about is the way stalling is being treated around the state. It only seems to me that stalling is being rewarded with slow warnings or maybe even the first stalling point and never a second point even when it should be given. To your point about making the fight come to you when you are up is not very smart. As long as you are not coming in wild trying to lock up or throw yourself how can you be thrown. If I am up in a match I will definetly still be attacking but in a controled manner to keep my opponent on guard and keep them from attacking me. You should always look for those bonus points (major,tech, or pin) for your team points and to put know doubt in your opponents mind that he was ever in the match.

Student, I am not trying to discredit what you are saying, I am just looking at it from a different paradigm or outlook.  Lying on you stomach is rarely a good idea, even when you are getting hand control for many worse reasons than stalling.  I was referring to fighting for hand control from the referee's or sit-out positions.  I like the sarcasm though, I bet that fire keeps you from get pinned often. 

As far as neutral is concerned, I was not suggesting that one should run from, aviod, or endlessly circle away from his opponent...that is obviously stalling and will be called.  However, when a wresltle has the lead, he should no longer have to FORCE the action in the match.  In theory, the wrestler who is down in points should already be forcing the aciton and working to gain back lost points, but too many times I have seen wrestlers with the lead run in to force the action only to put themselves in poistions for easy lateral drops, shots, or, my favorite, fireman's carries.  In a nutshell, if you are losing, go try to win...if you are winning make them come to you.  Does that make more sense> 

well what it boils down to is what the ref sees as stalling and no one not even the president can change the mind of a ref it is stupid to get mad over a stalling call because it's not the wrestlers coaches or the fans point of view that matters it is the refs he is there to get action into a match so it is his call on what is stalling or not but the refs do see stalling as different things so you just need to work and then you won't get called

Haha...that is a good point.  If the official calls it, it is stalling and if he doesn't make the call then it is not.  Stalling is one of those calls that aren't as clear cut as some others, and so it is going to rely heavily on the point of view of the official.  That being said, a good number of people have won and lost big matches on stalling points, so it is important that no matter how an official calls it, they are at least consisitent.

Quite frankly i dont mind stalling that much as long as its not really obivous that they are just trying not to get pinned