I read an interesting article today from USA wrestling.  This might shed some light on the silly debate about letting kids wear something besides a singlet.  My opinion is that a certain people that had their own agenda about changing the middle school uniform.  Stating safety issues blah, blah, blah.  

Hopefully the opinion of some very well known wrestling coaches will carry some more weight than people who have probably never wrestled a day in their life.  I know this is a little out of character of me to be so outspoken but I think we need to embrace some changes in our philosophy as a wrestling community.  Anyone that knows me will tell you that I want what is best for the kids.  I have had a wrestling facility at my house for years and have always welcomed any wrestler to practice at my house regardless of the school they attend or if they are even direct competition to my son.  I have also devoted a lot of time working on rankings, camps at my house, and even the 2nd All-Star dual which is not profitable.  Just ask Ranger.  All with the intention of making kids better.  

I have been lucky to make some great friends which include kids, parents, and the guys I have coached with for years.  These have been some of the best years going through this journey with my son and my fellow coaches, parents, and wrestlers.

My point is that I would love to do anything possible to get other kids to participate in the sport.  Maybe the kids and their parents would have the opportunity to share some of the great experiences I have had during my journey.  For anyone that has traveled all over the country as a group understands the bonds you create with people.  Lots of stadiums, gyms, cramped cars, and hotel rooms. 

So if we could gain just one more wrestling family by giving them the option to wear a compression uniform, I say do it.  We need to implement change and quit finding all the negatives about it.

I will get off my soap box now but I do feel better.

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2016/September/29/It-Is-Time-for-Wrestling-to-Ditch-the-Singlet

That was a great article Dutch. I've never thought about the change in uniform as a better way to market the sport (i.e. selling jerseys). What a wonderful marketing tool! That alone made me reconsider how I personally feel about the whole debate. I've always been somewhat opposed to the idea, just for the simple fact of tradition. At the same time, I've also been on record saying that although I personally oppose the change, I would not  stand in the way of anything that would help grow our sport. This article has been an eye opener and now I personally really like the idea. Thanks again Dutch for posting!

37 minutes ago, dutch said:

I read an interesting article today from USA wrestling.  This might shed some light on the silly debate about letting kids wear something besides a singlet.  My opinion is that a certain people that had their own agenda about changing the middle school uniform.  Stating safety issues blah, blah, blah.  

Hopefully the opinion of some very well know wrestling coaches will carry some more weight than people who have probably never wrestled a day in their life.  I know this is a little out of character of me to be so outspoken but I think we need to embrace some changes in our philosophy as a wrestling community.  Anyone that knows me will tell you that I want what is best for the kids.  I have had a wrestling facility at my house for years and have always welcomed any wrestler to practice at my house regardless of the school they attend or if they are even direct competition to my son.  I have also devoted a lot of time working on rankings, camps at my house, and even the 2nd All-Star dual which is not profitable.  Just ask Ranger.  All with the intention of making kids better.  

I have been lucky to make some great friends which include kids, parents, and the guys I have coached with for years.  These have been some of the best years going through this journey with my son and my fellow coaches, parents, and wrestlers.

My point is that I would love to do anything possible to get other kids to participate in the sport.  Maybe the kids and their parents would have the opportunity to share some of the great experiences I have had during my journey.  For anyone that has traveled all over the county as a group understands the bonds you create with people.  Lots of stadiums, gyms, cramped cars, and hotel rooms. 

So if we could gain just one more wrestling family by giving them the option to wear a compression uniform, I say do it.  We need to implement change and quit finding all the negatives about it.

I will get off my soap box now but I do feel better.

 

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2016/September/29/It-Is-Time-for-Wrestling-to-Ditch-the-Singlet

WOW!!!! So me sounding like an idiot and arguing with Plantman and a few others about this over the last couple months actually has National Support!! I wonder if all these college coaches went to the same Safety and Medical conference Plantman went to. Dutch THANK YOU for sharing this article with us. Also Nike Man did have reservations with this but did say he was for anything that would make positive changes for wrestling!! GREAT ARTICLE. MADE MY NIGHT!! Now let's recite on fight shorts/ and compression shorts!!

I waited before I made any orders on new uniforms. I assumed that we would do the right thing and vote in the option for fight shorts and the compression shirt. I even advertised to middle school kids that they wouldn't have to wear the singlet and received much much better interest. Now is this final for this wrestling season? Can any sort of emergency vote be put in place on this to see if we can get it changed for this year? It almost seems like lots of us don't want to increase participation and grow the sport. It must be nice to have tons of kids on your team. Unfortunately all of us do not and this would help get numbers up.

Unwillingness to change is a sure cause of death.  Must adapt.  We've seen it with baseball.

On September 30, 2016 at 11:09 PM, thomam said:

I waited before I made any orders on new uniforms. I assumed that we would do the right thing and vote in the option for fight shorts and the compression shirt. I even advertised to middle school kids that they wouldn't have to wear the singlet and received much much better interest. Now is this final for this wrestling season? Can any sort of emergency vote be put in place on this to see if we can get it changed for this year? It almost seems like lots of us don't want to increase participation and grow the sport. It must be nice to have tons of kids on your team. Unfortunately all of us do not and this would help get numbers up.

I've confirmed it with the president of the KSWA, the youth can wrestle in fight or compression shorts and compression shirts or shirt. The middle school can wrestle in the compression short and shirt combo that is also considered a 2 piece singlet or the traditional singlet. I'm sure once we see how successful Ohio and every other state that is adopted this new Fight short and compression shirt combo, that the closed minded braintrust that voted against it will either have move on or think to vote for it. 

So it seems the fight shorts were the big problem if they are going to allow middle school to wear compression shorts and compression shirt but no fight shorts? WTH?

     It seems to me that you can wear whatever you want before the post season or qualifying events.  For years and still goes on today.  If you had/have extra matches kids could basically wear whatever they wanted. If I am reading correctly Ohio is allowing them.  

     I say this.  With the exception of the post season and state duals.  Allow them to wear whatever they want.  It will help get kids out and then they probably won't mind wearing the singlet in the post season.  

     Hey I'm as old school as they get.  I still don't like the option of picking neutral in the 2nd and 3rd period. (that's how ancient I am).  But , and there is always a but, this new generation of kids are different.  Appearance is everything to them. It makes a huge difference to them.  I don't agree with it but it is the way it is. I've seen kids not participate in a sport just because of the color of the uniform.  The kids are not going to change, we have to change. We have tried to fight this fight for years now and are losing.  Lets not lose the war just to win one battle.  

These are the opinions of GOO, nothing more nothing less,  take them or leave them really does not matter in the whole scheme of things. 

GOO OUT.

12 hours ago, thomam said:

So it seems the fight shorts were the big problem if they are going to allow middle school to wear compression shorts and compression shirt but no fight shorts? WTH?

As long as it's not a sanctioned KSWA event, you can wear the fight shorts and compression shirt. That's what the Bi Laws are going to say. The "2 piece singlet is the only other option dying post season(I.e. Districts, Regionals, State and State Duals. And for what it worth I agree with GOO. Let's win a battle and get more kids out. This gear can be wicked and promote our sport. Now the teams need to design some great gear and get your football and basketball players on the mat!

It sounds like we are moving in the right direction!!!

Do whatever you think is best for the kids, but at the end of the day it isn't going to matter.  A TRUE wrestler doesn't give a D??? what he is wearing!

Valid point true wrestlers don't "give a d" what they wear but do you not think that there are a number of kids who would fall in love with the sport if given the option and we gain just one more kid its growing the sport and anything that grows the sport is good I believe whole heartily there is no reason to at least not give the option for the compression shirt and fight shorts it very very logical.

We are not trying to gain those who already love wrestling.  We are trying to gain those that are on the fence.  That kid who may or may not wrestle.  As TJA said gaining one kid is a plus.  If we continue to lose kids because of uniform then the sport will die.  It's a new generation of kids and sports.  We are fighting the one sport wonder mentality.  High school sports are suffering because of this.  (But that's another argument) but maybe with a uniform change we can get more 2 sport wonders.  

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2016/September/29/It-Is-Time-for-Wrestling-to-Ditch-the-Singlet

Moore will be hosting the Horsepower Middle School Duals on Dec. 10th. I sent out a email letting all coaches know that we will allow teams to wear fight shorts and compression shirt. Hope to see some more tournament directors also allow this.

So now we're going to say it's the Wild, Wild West and we can make up our own rules for the regular season.....

I don't like the weight classes for my team this year.....

It's a very slippery slope, is all I'm sayin here.

Is This site about wrestling or fashion wear? 

7 hours ago, depperschmidt said:

Is This site about wrestling or fashion wear? 

It's about growth .  If you don't like the topic it's simple don't open it.  

I know that there are a lot of coaches who support the uniform change. I am DEFINITELY one of them. The problem is your opinion doesn't count unless you vote at the fall meeting. If you are unable to attend you can send an absentee ballot. So there really is no excuse, I voted for the change but we were out numbered at the meeting. 

2 hours ago, Coachhaddix said:

I know that there are a lot of coaches who support the uniform change. I am DEFINITELY one of them. The problem is your opinion doesn't count unless you vote at the fall meeting. If you are unable to attend you can send an absentee ballot. So there really is no excuse, I voted for the change but we were out numbered at the meeting. 

This in my opinion does more to inhibit growth than singlets.  We need more guys to have the passion and desire to promote and grow the sport.  The fact that only 27 teams cared enough to vote, is what is most disappointing.  Without more people who care, a uniform change isn't going to help much.

I was just on Flo and they had a great feature on this subject. Malicious Intent Episode 42 from the 3 minute mark to about the 31 minute mark. Great discussion both ways. Check it out.

On October 7, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Tapout said:

So now we're going to say it's the Wild, Wild West and we can make up our own rules for the regular season.....

I don't like the weight classes for my team this year.....

It's a very slippery slope, is all I'm sayin here.

I'd hardly call compression shorts and compression shirts(2 of singlet) "THE WILD WILD WEST"!! If there is something positive that can help grow Kentucky Wrestling, that other states we've been attempting to follow, made the changes, then what's the issue. We have a clear cut answer to this years KSWA events. Maybe next year we can vote in the fight shorts when we have a defined llength and styles allowed. Keeping the integrity  of the uniform appearance for the teams color, mascots, etc. should still be followed. Be creative, design a look that kids will want to wear. Stay positive with this concept and make it about growth. 

Wild Wild West is changing the rules to not apply to the regular because we don't like the outcome.

Why did we bother to vote......

And I'm not kidding about the weight classes, so where does it stop.

How about following the rules that were voted in and changing them by voting next time.

Wonder how many new wrestlers ballet slippers and tutu's would bring in?

On October 8, 2016 at 7:34 PM, rjs4470 said:

This in my opinion does more to inhibit growth than singlets.  We need more guys to have the passion and desire to promote and grow the sport.  The fact that only 27 teams cared enough to vote, is what is most disappointing.  Without more people who care, a uniform change isn't going to help much.

I think Coach hit the nail on the head. Committed passionate coaches will have 10000 times the impact a uniform change will. We have way too many guys who just "collect a check" and do nothing to build their teams. 

Not saying we shouldn't make an attempt with an alternate uniform, but I don't think it is a silver bullet. 

Speaking of voting on this again, won't it have to wait 2 years to be voted on again. 

     I like any idea that gets even one more kid to wrestle.  Rules have changed to accommodate the new "Wave of fashion"  C'mon Depp.  You are older than even I am. I'm sure you wore those singlets that had the snap button in the crotch.  In my time you could not have hair to your shoulders or over your ears.  All of this changed to get more kids out and to change with the times.  Ultimately it did not change wrestling, except to get more kids out.  

     What I truly do not understand is why the middle school rules do not mirror those of the High School?  It would be so much simpler for the powers that be to just follow what the high school is doing and not worry about anything else.  Middle school kids should follow the weight loss procedures and certification procedures same as the high school. They will be doing it in a year or two anyway.  Many of the middle school kids are wrestling with the high school at some time anyway. 

You're right about how things/times change. Change happens on it's own, sometimes good and sometimes bad. (look at what's happened to the state tourney.) but some things remain the same too. I realize that not everyone is the same, I only wanted to compete and wrestle and was not concerned with attire.  I have wrestled in cut off blue jeans  and garbage bags with holes cut out for head and arms. Now I guess it's just as important to some of  the kids today to "look good" while their doing it too. not a problem, I  really could care less what they are wearing when I'm in the stands watching. and would go even if they had NO standard uniform. So I will stay out of this conversation and let the people who care about this topic settle it. Can't wait for the season to start though.

6 hours ago, depperschmidt said:

  I have wrestled in cut off blue jeans  and garbage bags with holes cut out for head and arms. Now I guess it's just as important to some of  the kids today to "look good" while their doing it too. not a problem,

This is because you are one crazy a** SOB. 

True story:  my family and I went on a walk this evening through my neighborhood when a neighbor who lives a few houses down from us stopped me on the sidewalk and asked if I still help coach wrestling.  She explained that her son, who is now in 7th grade, wrestled on our youth team for one season but quit because he "hated the uniform".  She said he loved going to practices, but refused to go to tournaments that required him to wear a singlet because of the way he looked in it. She said that he is considering wrestling this year "because his friends said he doesn't have to wear that uniform now."  I've seen this kid in the neighborhood and he is not that overweight. I was shocked that he would be so self conscience of wearing a singlet.  

Of the long list of obstacles to preventing growth of wrestling with kids, I would bet uniforms are pretty far down the list compared to costs, getting good coaches, access to facilities, etc.  However, of all those obstacles, allowing for a newer looking uniform might be the easiest to overcome.  How hard is it to just allow the uniform as an option and teams can decide if they want them or not?  As many have said, if it helps get just one more kid out then it is a good idea.  Almost every coach I know has admitted that they have lost kids because of the singlet.  As crazy as that sounds to us who looked amazing in a singlet, its just the truth.    

I hear a lot of people say "well wrestling isn't for everyone and if a kid won't wrestle because of a uniform then he probably wasn't cut out for the sport anyway".  To me, that attitude is exactly why our sport struggles to grow.  It's as if we are deliberately only promoting the sport to potential state champions.  There just aren't a lot of potential Brock Irvins roaming the elementary and middle schools.  However, there are a lot of kids that would benefit from wrestling that aren't doing anything in the Winter.  And if changing a uniform helps get those kids out, why not do it?  The reality is, wrestling probably has a bigger impact on those fringe kids and their families anyway and those are the kids and families we do a horrible job of attracting and keeping with the sport.     

12 hours ago, raidercoach said:

True story:  my family and I went on a walk this evening through my neighborhood when a neighbor who lives a few houses down from us stopped me on the sidewalk and asked if I still help coach wrestling.  She explained that her son, who is now in 7th grade, wrestled on our youth team for one season but quit because he "hated the uniform".  She said he loved going to practices, but refused to go to tournaments that required him to wear a singlet because of the way he looked in it. She said that he is considering wrestling this year "because his friends said he doesn't have to wear that uniform now."  I've seen this kid in the neighborhood and he is not that overweight. I was shocked that he would be so self conscience of wearing a singlet.  

Of the long list of obstacles to preventing growth of wrestling with kids, I would bet uniforms are pretty far down the list compared to costs, getting good coaches, access to facilities, etc.  However, of all those obstacles, allowing for a newer looking uniform might be the easiest to overcome.  How hard is it to just allow the uniform as an option and teams can decide if they want them or not?  As many have said, if it helps get just one more kid out then it is a good idea.  Almost every coach I know has admitted that they have lost kids because of the singlet.  As crazy as that sounds to us who looked amazing in a singlet, its just the truth.    

I hear a lot of people say "well wrestling isn't for everyone and if a kid won't wrestle because of a uniform then he probably wasn't cut out for the sport anyway".  To me, that attitude is exactly why our sport struggles to grow.  It's as if we are deliberately only promoting the sport to potential state champions.  There just aren't a lot of potential Brock Irvins roaming the elementary and middle schools.  However, there are a lot of kids that would benefit from wrestling that aren't doing anything in the Winter.  And if changing a uniform helps get those kids out, why not do it?  The reality is, wrestling probably has a bigger impact on those fringe kids and their families anyway and those are the kids and families we do a horrible job of attracting and keeping with the sport.     

Couldn't have said it better..

On October 10, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Ranger123 said:

I think Coach hit the nail on the head. Committed passionate coaches will have 10000 times the impact a uniform change will. We have way too many guys who just "collect a check" and do nothing to build their teams. 

Not saying we shouldn't make an attempt with an alternate uniform, but I don't think it is a silver bullet. 

Speaking of voting on this again, won't it have to wait 2 years to be voted on again. 

Not unless we decide that it needs to be addressed again prior to that two year moratorium, which I think there is enough chatter and discussion that this would be one of those topics that need to be. BUT, there seems to be more individuals with very valid opinions on here speaking up since the vote than there was present for the vote. The majority voted against them..... I support the alternate uniform, think it's an awesome idea, but the boards hands are tied when the majority votes, so maybe we can give it another look sooner and see what the majority says this time around. 

With High School going Fight shorts and shirts I think its a NO-Brainer