Topic ID: 13516 | 24 Posts
I was looking at Regional team entries and noticed that many teams had many open weight classes.
The following teams had full line-ups for this weekend.
Region 1 - Union County and Christian County
Region 2 - Central Hardin, Larue Co, Meade Co, and Owensboro
Region 3 - None
Region 4 - Central, St. X, and Male
Region 5 - Oldham Co.
Region 6 - Campbell Co, Scott, and Simon Kenton
Region 7 - Madison Co, and McCreary Co.
Region 8 - Harrison Co. and Johnson Co.
I did not realize the numbers across the state were down that much. It is still hard to believe how many wrestlers have quit at this point of the season.
It's disturbing that such an amazing sport is getting so little turn out right now, especially in Louisville.. Hopefully these big numbers in youth and middle school will transition into guys continuing into high school. Would more 'advertising' help? Treating clubs and teams almost like organizations? More exposure to media outlets? I feel like a lot of people may not even know some of these clubs exist without word of mouth or someone 'in the know' getting kids involved personally. Is there any youth programs even in the Dixie area..?
Next season I think we can count on two hands how many schools will even have teams in the Louisville area. Iroquois, J-Town, and many more potentially not even having a team is sort of crazy, especially J-Town, not sure what the story is there. Fern Creek has 750 boys in their school, it's startling that 35 don't come and stick it out for wrestling, but it's an extremely common theme in the state. I think the hard thing for feeder programs in Louisville as compared to the smaller counties is that there is absolutely zero guarantee that the kid that you've trained since 6 years old is going to come to your public high school that has lackluster performances educationally. If you're in Union Co.'s feeder program, it's almost a guarantee that you're going to go to that high school. If you're on SK/WV feeder programs, it's a given that you will go to one of two high schools, not one of 10+.
Woodford Co. definitely has a full line up unless I am mistaken. Maybe they are missing a heavy or something.
I think one of the biggest factors is that kids are specializing in one sport now more then ever. Wrestling is losing the football players, the track kids, the soccer kids. I've always had those kids on teams in the past, but now almost none.
This also has an affect in a different way. We have kid who specialize in wrestling and competition has gotten harder at the top and harder to medal. 15 yrs ago you could play other sports and still have a shot at a medal, now a days I don't see that, outside a few kids who are just way more physically gifted.
Although year around wrestling has helped the level of quality, I think it's driven down numbers. The kids who just wrestle during wrestling have almost no chance to medal, so I think they just dont do it.
15 minutes ago, coachteater said:I think one of the biggest factors is that kids are specializing in one sport now more then ever. Wrestling is losing the football players, the track kids, the soccer kids. I've always had those kids on teams in the past, but now almost none.
This also has an affect in a different way. We have kid who specialize in wrestling and competition has gotten harder at the top and harder to medal. 15 yrs ago you could play other sports and still have a shot at a medal, now a days I don't see that, outside a few kids who are just way more physically gifted.
Although year around wrestling has helped the level of quality, I think it's driven down numbers. The kids who just wrestle during wrestling have almost no chance to medal, so I think they just dont do it.
I didn't consider this. Great point Coach. Maybe we will see our kids 'specialized' in this way, via the youth and middle school programs, it's just taking a while to get those guys up into the high school levels. It would be disheartening to never medal because you are a tri-athlete, always losing to 'pure' wrestlers. Same goes for wrestlers wanting to play football, it's extremely hard to be varsity vs. guys that have been playing since they can hold a ball and been going to specialized camps, etc. 100% valid point.
Never thought about that CoachT. That has some merit to it I think. A thing about union tho is they have anywhere from 600-700 total students. It's even hard for them to fill a full squad, especially in the upper weights. Their youth program has really taken off lately..... and as a side note, Coach Parks mentioned to me that Woodford will have a full team this weekend.
13 minutes ago, coachteater said:I think one of the biggest factors is that kids are specializing in one sport now more then ever. Wrestling is losing the football players, the track kids, the soccer kids. I've always had those kids on teams in the past, but now almost none.
This also has an affect in a different way. We have kid who specialize in wrestling and competition has gotten harder at the top and harder to medal. 15 yrs ago you could play other sports and still have a shot at a medal, now a days I don't see that, outside a few kids who are just way more physically gifted.
Although year around wrestling has helped the level of quality, I think it's driven down numbers. The kids who just wrestle during wrestling have almost no chance to medal, so I think they just dont do it.
Agree on all points.
About football, I think we need to approach those coaches and make the case for the wrestling team to serve as their off-season conditioning/agility program. I've always been willing to push back the start of my practice an hour to allow them to lift with the football team twice per week. We need to make them understand that we're not trying to steal athletes from them, and can help each other. However this may mean we can't push kids to drop an extra weight class if we want football players to encourage kids to wrestle. Coaches Carr and Parks I know were assistants on the middle school football team for a long time, which developed relationships with kids while they were still young.
Yes, Woodford is missing HVY. That's been a hole all season.
IMO early exposure to the sport / feeder programs is the single most effective key to growth and sustained numbers. I believe a kid can still wrestle seasonally (at least in KY) and have a solid chance to place, IF they start learning the sport early and get several seasons under their belt before HS. There will be several multi-sport athletes making the podium this year, and some are going to be on or very near the top stair. The majority of the top steps of the podium may go to the year round kids, but this state isn't as deep as others, particularly at upper weights which is what the multi-sport guys tend to be.
If, on the other hand, a kid hits HS having never wrestled and also having played football all through youth and middle school, and now they think they'd like to try wrestling but their HS football coach says "it's us or them...", then at that point you lose that kid 99% of the time. There's no decision conflict at all in that kid's mind. Early exposure is especially important when you start talking recruiting / retaining upper weight kids, that the other sports are definitely going to want.
Just now, ukpridewrestler11 said:Never thought about that CoachT. That has some merit to it I think. A thing about union tho is they have anywhere from 600-700 total students. It's even hard for them to fill a full squad, especially in the upper weights. Their youth program has really taken off lately..... and as a side note, Coach Parks mentioned to me that Woodford will have a full team this weekend.
Yeah I could've swore that Woodford had a full line up, even fielding nearly a full "JV" squad as well?
Union Co. in my opinion should be seen as an exception at this point. They are such an anomaly of a school that it's hard to comprehend what's going on over there honestly. Great coaching and fielding a full roster out of that many kids is tremendous. They have that 'legacy' feel, which I think helps them turn out more kids than the average school.
Not just Lville schools lacking. Can't believe Henry Clay, Tates Creek, Dunbar and Lafayette don't have a full squad. Coach Teater hits the nail on the head as to why. Wayne County, Larue, South Oldham, Woodford, and many more top teams from the last decade or so used to fill two full rosters easily.
I know from my experience here at Caldwell Co. is they didn't have a feeder program. Middle School started their organization around 2000 and I was hired in 2007 and started Tiger Wrestling in 2008, so I'm a little behind on that part and it shows. Another thing I'm sure other coaches face, I coach all levels (Youth, Middle, and High), so when you see these teams with say two coaches at youth/middle and then double that for high school that makes a big impact as far as kid/staff ratio. You take those factors and throw in an enrollment of 600 students, it becomes a difficult task at times to be competitive along with having a full roster. The more hands on deck at all levels, I think really makes the biggest impact. I'm not referring to the weekend warriors that you never see until tournament time. I'm referring to practice/instruction time where all the kids are getting equal one on one instruction is when programs see the fastest and biggest results. Just my opinion tho.
18 minutes ago, CradleKY said:Not just Lville schools lacking. Can't believe Henry Clay, Tates Creek, Dunbar and Lafayette don't have a full squad. Coach Teater hits the nail on the head as to why. Wayne County, Larue, South Oldham, Woodford, and many more top teams from the last decade or so used to fill two full rosters easily.
Had a full line up , but changed for region. My 126 moved up for better chance at state, so open hole at 120. Kinda funny about my other hole, 145. I had one, but he is also a cheerleader and nationals are in florida this weekend. He made the decision to go to florida.
6 minutes ago, coachteater said:Had full line up, but changed for region.My 126 moved up for better chance at state, so open hole at 120. Kinda funny about my other hole, 145. I had one, but he is also a cheerleader and nation's are in florida this weekend. He made the decision to go to florida.
Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah
I stand corrected CBender. Rusty said "they will have everyone this weekend" after only having 10 last weekend compete. I assumed that meant all 14.
Another thing I see being a big factor in losing kids is the huge commitment wrestling is. Most teams practice 5 days a week and wrestle every sat. On top of that we go during thanksgiving and christmas.
With most kids I've lost, it's just too much for them to commit to. There is so much more pulling kids away these days. School work, jobs, family commitments, church, and other school events. They want to be part of these things as well.
I've been talking with many other coaches and I'm working to adjust my schedule next season to accommodate these things and try to build numbers.
More wed duals, a few less sat tournaments, a day off here and there during the week. More of a break at christmas and shorter practices later in year. My hope is to build numbers, stay healthy, boost moral, not burn out, and hopefully be moRe successful in the end. We shall see how it works
Old habits are hard to break, but I think it's important to change with the times to be successful.
17 minutes ago, coachteater said:Another thing I see being a big factor in losing kids is the huge commitment wrestling is. Most teams practice 5 days a week and wrestle every sat. On top of that we go during thanksgiving and christmas.
With most kids I've lost, it's just too much for them to commit to. There is so much more pulling kids away these days. School work, jobs, family commitments, church, and other school events. They want to be part of these things as well.
I've been talking with many other coaches and I'm working to adjust my schedule next season to accommodate these things and try to build numbers.
More wed duals, a few less sat tournaments, a day off here and there during the week. More of a break at christmas and shorter practices later in year. My hope is to build numbers, stay healthy, boost moral, not burn out, and hopefully be moRe successful in the end. We shall see how it works
Old habits are hard to break, but I think it's important to change with the times to be successful.
I really like some of those ideas, especially taking a Saturday off here and there. Every single Saturday from before sunup to after sunset is a little extreme when other obligations may be at play. What about more duals in generals? Instead of wrestling Saturday ALL DAY. Maybe invite teams for a Wednesday and Friday quad meet? That'd be potentially 6 matches for the wrestlers throughout the week, three days of practice, and a full weekend. Teams that want to 'grind' can wrestle Friday duals and Saturday tournaments, teams that don't, don't have to by any means.
It'll be interesting to see how the more 'relaxed' atmosphere would compete vs. the grindstone that is typical wrestling rooms.
28 minutes ago, coachteater said:Another thing I see being a big factor in losing kids is the huge commitment wrestling is. Most teams practice 5 days a week and wrestle every sat. On top of that we go during thanksgiving and christmas.
With most kids I've lost, it's just too much for them to commit to. There is so much more pulling kids away these days. School work, jobs, family commitments, church, and other school events. They want to be part of these things as well.
I've been talking with many other coaches and I'm working to adjust my schedule next season to accommodate these things and try to build numbers.
More wed duals, a few less sat tournaments, a day off here and there during the week. More of a break at christmas and shorter practices later in year. My hope is to build numbers, stay healthy, boost moral, not burn out, and hopefully be moRe successful in the end. We shall see how it works
Old habits are hard to break, but I think it's important to change with the times to be successful.
Coaches need to be more progressive, imo and this is a perfect example of how. Another plus for Wed. duals is getting some students to attend. Its very hard to get HS students to come sit in a gym all damn day on Saturday to cheer on their friends. But have more Wed duals and hype them up as much as you can during the week and hopefully you'll get better attendance and loud, interested fans leading to a better atmosphere overall and more kids wanting to be part of that. It sounds silly but having peers showin up and cheering you on is a HUGE asset to have and helps justify all that off season training, weight cutting and hard work. The most electric gyms I wrestled in were state duals, state tournament, WCI finals and a couple intense Wed duals with rivals.
RATS! I thought we'd finally found a HVY. 
Woodford had several kids sit last week to help with dings and dents, yes.
One other note on my belief that early exposure is a key to getting kids to stick and ultimately having numbers...not very many kids (under 6'8") pick up a basketball, or a baseball bat and glove, for the first time in their freshman year and end up making their varsity squad by the time they graduate, much less contribute to their team placing in a state event. I would assert that wrestling actually has a shorter learning curve to at least achieving modest competency, and offers more opportunity to late starters than several other sports. And it crosses over very well with several other sports. But if a kid has tried it as a youth or in middle school, then he at least knows what he's turning down when he commits to going another direction with his time. Otherwise, since there's minimal national exposure, it's doubtful he even knows the rules or has seen a live match when he says "sorry, I'm sticking with <some other activity>".
If you want a sport that you absolutely cannot compete in at a state level without going year round, take swimming. In any modest sized area you simply will not place in a local three team meet if you don't swim year round. Swimming with a club and maintaining a year round training schedule is table stakes to qualifying for state. Most clubs take 2-4 weeks a year off at most. I'd say qualifying for our wrestling state tournament as a seasonal participant is much more viable.
"More duals, fewer tournaments" - I find well-matched duals to be more exciting than tournaments, but the kicker is you still have to have reasonably full teams to generate a positive experience. I watched two teams at state duals that posted a 36-30 score before their first match was wrestled, just due to alternating holes in the lineups. Teams in the 5-9 weight classes filled range would probably rather participate in a tournament full of other half-rostered teams.
Numbers are down all over the country but Kentucky's numbers issue was already bad enough so it looks even worse now.
I've been vocal privately that I think the belief us coaches have that it is normal for half your team to quit is not a good thing. It's the idea of a fixed mindset vs a growth mindset, instead of looking at ways we can keep kids in the program we just go "eh it's always been this way and always will."
I think the fighting over uniforms is one of those shooting ourselves in the foot problems that are pinching numbers before they even come through the door. Also I think Wrestling's media exposure needs a serious overhaul. That's part of why I am so adamant about the brackets issue, we need to make a big deal about the tournament. Instead we seem to be so focused on making the tournament a virtual secret. When Fort Campbell was going into our semifinal matchup the first year we won our football title they played a hype video for the school to get us excited about the program and the game. Football numbers skyrocketed the following year because kids wanted to be a part of the program that was being hyped throughout the entire school. Have a big dual matchup with a rival school, make hype videos for the school, talk it up at a pep rally, have team gear giveaways at the duals, get creative. Obviously staying the course is not working so why should we fight change so much? In Louisville the Courier-Journal has articles for every basketball result but barely anything when it comes to wrestling, they keep using the same stock photo for every wrestling match. That can't rest on the Courier-Journal, we need to make a big dual out of an event and sell it as a huge sports story.
Keeping numbers at the youth and middle school is usually an issue of kids getting burnt out from parents and/or coaches. Stressing success at that level is usually self defeating. The Russians don't even teach their kids technique until they reach the age of 12. Focus should be on athleticism, having kids understand how their body moves in wrestling, not techniques that get wins at the youth level.
Falcon, "Focus should be on athleticism, having kids understand how their body moves in wrestling, not techniques that get wins at the youth level." Totally agree. Could be why the kid quits when they get older, because those type of techniques don't work and they have fallen behind the rest of the pack with their development.
Falcon you are correct! If the administration would publicize the sport more like Football, basketball and Baseball it would possibly bring more athletes out. It is up to the coaches to get the news into the local papers!!
I haven't posted or been on this forum in years since my son graduated but i came for regional brackets and this thread caught my attention.
My wife is a middle school teacher and the staff asked the students for suggestions of careers that they would like to hear about on Career Day. In the Top Ten was...... UFC Fighter.
Yes, you read that right. IN THE TOP TEN - UFC FIGHTER!!! My wife is actually trying to contact some former UFC fighters in Cincinnati to come speak.
I think moving to MMA fight shorts and rashguards could help get more kids interested, both as spectators and wrestlers.