The KY/USA Freestyle & Greco State Tournament will be this Saturday May 19th. THIS TOURNAMENT IS OPEN TO ALL IN STATE WRESTLERS WITH A FULL USA MEMBERSHIP!!

The tournament will be held at Taylor Co. Highschool. Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are unable to access the football stadium. I and KY/USA Wrestling sincerely apologize for this. The tournament will be live on trackcast.

This tournament is a requirement for all national teams.

Register on track here:

http://www.trackwrestling.com/registration/BasicPreReg1.jsp?tournamentGroupId=51724132

So no need for any schoolboys to show up then

Breakfast will be available at the tournament.

We will pass on the breakfast. Already spent more time eating pancakes then on the mat at prior events. Better use of a Saturday then 5 hours on the road for a 2-3 man “bracket” and a medal. 

It's depressing that more aren't going. 

9 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

We will pass on the breakfast. Already spent more time eating pancakes then on the mat at prior events. Better use of a Saturday then 5 hours on the road for a 2-3 man “bracket” and a medal. 

I'm unclear if these comments are directed toward the people not showing up or the people putting on the tournament. 

4 minutes ago, ccbcdeke said:

I'm unclear if these comments are directed toward the people not showing up or the people putting on the tournament. 

As a coach, parent of a nationally competitive wrestler, AND USA board member I should be included on both sides of the fence. Apparently I have been mistaken on one of those roles. 

So to answer your questions both. Not all that interested in supporting these events and at this point I’m not encouraging kids to attend. 

My 2 cents. I am a wrestling parent, I am not a USA board member. I have a completely different stake in what happens in state. Freestyle is the style that females will wrestle in college and this time of year is a more relaxed part of the year to continue training. While I don't know the inner workings of the board, my parent point of view is to give support as much as possible to our state tournaments. 

While we do travel out of state in off-season, it is done for the bigger numbers in female tournaments, we still encourage all the girls to attend the in state tournies. Hopefully, one day Kentucky can do the things that other states are doing. If I find reasons not to help it or keep hoping it will then that day won't happen. I do see lots of support from varying people around the state and for those THANK YOU.

Are they really not sending a middle school team to Indy this year?  

1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

As a coach, parent of a nationally competitive wrestler, AND USA board member I should be included on both sides of the fence. Apparently I have been mistaken on one of those roles. 

So to answer your questions both. Not all that interested in supporting these events and at this point I’m not encouraging kids to attend. 

That clears it up...thanks.

58 minutes ago, ccbcdeke said:

That clears it up...thanks.

We have talked plenty of times and you know I feel about this situation. But I feel like I’ve been swimming upstream on this matter for a number of years. Find me someone in this state who has put more time and energy into the Olympic styles over the last 5 years. It seems obvious to me that my input/support is not all that valuable. That’s fine. But when my family and the kids I coach get screwed by it I take it very personal. 

Here is our response.

The requirements for all dual teams are listed on this website. These were approved by Ranger123, at last year's meeting, and in emails prior to them being posted. Once the qualifier was complete, there were 5 kids that filed paperwork showing interest in being on the team. Of those 5 only 2 paid deposits. After that there was no paperwork filled in form of petition or otherwise with the state. I continued to communicate with Ranger about the schoolboy dual team. He sent a list of people that had shown interest. Still no paperwork or deposits from anyone. This went on for 2 weeks. I last communicated with Ranger on Sunday April 22nd. This is the communication to him, and I quote.
"We will take deposits until the end of the tournament this Saturday at Oldham Co. The entry fees to these tournaments are not refundable. We also have to reserve rooms before we enter, and order gear for those who don't have it. If we don't have deposits, we won't be taking a team"
His response was, and I quote.
"I will see what I can do this week"
Of all the kids on the list that were interested in being in the dual team, only 1 was at the tournament in Oldham Co.
This deadline was put in place due to the fact that there was a non-refundable $1500.00 entry fee due by May 1st.  
Not only that, but ALL wrestlers are required to wear matching singlets. And these singlets are personalized. This was also at Rangers request. You can see from my communication with Ranger that there are a lot of things that have to be paid for. What is not mentioned in that communication, is that we also have to pay for an official to be there or pay a $500.00 penalty for each style.
And with no expression of interest by simply filling a petition for a spot, with a deposit. It's not wise to spend all of this money to make this happen on a team that only exists in theory 
We fund these teams very heavily. And absolutely want them to participate. Just not to the extent that we are willing to sacrifice loosing several thousand dollars.

True. All true information complete with quotes. But let’s share all the information. 

You are correct on our last communication   Was April 22.  Huh.  So not time between April 22 and May 17 to officially let the coach know there would not be a team?  The coach who did not seek out that position, but was ASKED to coach this team. Side note, Coach Livingston and the McCracken County crew did a great job coaching this team last year and I was more than happy to play a support role again this year. But you asked me to lead the team so I scheduled time off work among other family schedule changes to coach this team.  But I guess I am 4+ hours away, hard to get that message across the state.  

As for confirmations and deposits, that is quite funny.  I’ve never been part of Team Ky where anywhere near a full lineup was confirmed and paid 6-8 weeks ahead of time. Never.  That includes schoolboys duals, MS folkstyle national duals, HS scholastic duals  Never.  Amazing “we” have decided to put our foot down for a developmental age group in a style we are trying to develop.  And speaking of MS folkstyle duals.  Another event supported and organized under the Ky USA umbrella. That team was free to the participants. Yes Free.  A similarly supported team was the HS scholastic dual team.  I believe those kids were charged $130.  But this developmental team where we are trying to build interest and participation in the Olympic styles is $400???  Explain that one. $270 for an extra singlet and couple nights in a hotel? Not buying that.  

As for lack of deposits please explain why I would write you a check for a $200 deposit for my kid when he is reusing his gear and would never owe anywhere near that amount?  Is Ky USA looking for a loan from board members or what?  There were at least 3-4 kids in our initial lineup that did NOT need to pay a deposit because they did not need gear.  

Come on.  Really?  Losing thousands of dollars?  Entry fee and officials is the same whether we take a full lineup or forfeit 10 weights.  Gear is the only risk. And that is pretty simple.  If a kid doesn’t put deposit early enough they don’t get name on singlets.  

Bottom line is this.  As I talked to multiple people trying to recruit a full roster, the consistent message was that no one believes the organization is 100% behind this team.  I’m sure you are behind the cadet team.  

Before I close this short story, let’s go back to that board meeting.  We sat there for multiple hours and planned out a lot of different things.  As far as I know very little actually happened.  We were supposed to market and promote the schoolboy team at folkstyle events all season.  I never saw it.  We were supposed to set up some centralized training centers (RTC type) to get the best kids training together.  I haven’t heard about any of that happening after providing a few great options.  We were supposed to have some fundraising opportunities to help families offset the costs of these teams.  I haven’t heard about any of this either.  Maybe I’m just clueless.  I know I missed a meeting, but when you text the group on a Friday night about a Sunday meeting it is difficult to always make that happen.

Under the current structure and leadership, I resign from my position as cadet/junior/schoolboy leader (whatever I’m listed as at this point).

Jason Moore

I did forget one note.  Given the great concern for wise use of funds, did we really need to spend a few thousand dollars on a trailer to move mats a couple times a year?  My guess is that is pretty handy to have around the house when you need to transport something.

Hope you guys enjoy that extra couple thousand dollars in the budget this year.  Perfect timing to plan a killer July 4 party or pick up a few beverages at Buffalo Wild Wings in Fargo.

WOW.  They really bought a trailer to haul mat's?  That sounds like a good use of USA money.  I might have used that money to get a young group of wrestler exposed to larger national events.  All I hear about is growing the sport of wrestling in this state and getting kids involved in offseason tournaments.  Especially, exposure to freestyle and greco.  I remember (Coach Moore, Coach Roth, and myself) taking 11 kids to the same National Duals this thread is talking about.  None of use knew much about freestyle or greco.  I think only two of the kids had wrestled a freestyle match in their life.  Our kids took a butt kicking, but it got these kids exposed to these type of tournaments.  I also believe it helped mold these kids into some pretty good high school wrestlers.  More than half of these guys earned scholarships to wrestle at the next level.

Bradley Miller

Brandon Miller

Shay Horton

Blake Roth

Ryan Moore

Brady Wells

Mason Smith

Roger Young

Blake Denny

Chance Lanham

Ray Karl Ervin

If it is a money issue, there are a ton of people in this state willing to help out.  I know this because every year Ranger and I put on the Kentucky All-Star tournament.  It's amazing the support we receive from people every year.  I think most people in the state appreciate the effort that is given from multiple people in the state to grow wrestling.  Fundraising was also mentioned.  Did we even ask people to participate?  

If growing the sport is the purpose, then it seems like there could have been more effort in making this trip happen for these kids. 

I think the attitude in this board is contributing to the lack of participation in our state.  If anyone thinks $400.00 is an outrageous cost to participate in a national dual, they are misinformed.  When that message is coming from an individual who is viewed as a leader within KY wrestling it's irresponsible.  Being frustrated is ok.  Allowing your frustration to tear down what little we have is not.  

30 minutes ago, REscalera said:

I think the attitude in this board is contributing to the lack of participation in our state.  If anyone thinks $400.00 is an outrageous cost to participate in a national dual, they are misinformed.  When that message is coming from an individual who is viewed as a leader within KY wrestling it's irresponsible.  Being frustrated is ok.  Allowing your frustration to tear down what little we have is not.  

I never said $400 was outrageous, but it’s not insignificant for every family either. And when we are talking about trying to fill a roster, especially one that all of a sudden has a strict time/number mandate, cost is a factor. And I will say when families are prioritizing limited resources $400 compared to free is outrageous. My understanding is one of our priorities is to increase fs/gr participation.  Making freestyle team $400 and folkstyle Team free that seems constradictory to that philosophy.

The cost is just one single factor in this discussion. Glad you chimed in. You can give opinion on whether our state is helping develop fs/gr wrestlers or even boost participation?  Yeah we kind of know the answer to that since Zeke went to Indiana to get his training because what KY provided was inadequate. 

1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

I never said $400 was outrageous, but it’s not insignificant for every family either. And when we are talking about trying to fill a roster, especially one that all of a sudden has a strict time/number mandate, cost is a factor. And I will say when families are prioritizing limited resources $400 compared to free is outrageous. 

The cost is just one single factor in this discussion. Glad you chimed in. You can give opinion on whether our state is helping develop fs/gr wrestlers or even boost participation?  Yeah we kind of know the answer to that since Zeke went to Indiana to get his training because what KY provided was inadequate. 

I find it outrageous that anyone would expect to be able to participate for free.  

As for Zeke's training, aside from KY, he has spent time in Missouri, Iowa, Colorado and Indiana for training in both styles.  The status of KY wrestling had nothing to do to influence that.  It was more so to broaden his exposure to the different styles and different coaching perspectives as well as provide him with different  training partners.  An approach to training that I feel is not a bad reflection on those here locally but rather why not take advantage of all resources available.  

32 minutes ago, REscalera said:

I find it outrageous that anyone would expect to be able to participate for free.  

As for Zeke's training, aside from KY, he has spent time in Iowa, Colorado and Indiana for training in both styles.  The status of KY wrestling had nothing to do to influence that.  It was more so to broaden his exposure to the different styles and different coaching perspectives as well as provide him with different  training partners.  An approach to training that I feel is not a bad reflection on those here locally but rather why not take advantage of all resources available.  

Come on dude. You know Ky wrestling better than that. The proportion of the state that does much traveling is limited so when they compare the cost it reflects on what is being valued. 

I understand you still live down there and don’t want to upset the union co apple cart, but don’t act like training fs in Ky would have been just as effective for zeke’s prep for Fargo last year. If that’s the case I will come on here and wholly apologize when we crank out a dozen or so AAs in the next couple years. 

25 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Come on dude. You know Ky wrestling better than that. The proportion of the state that does much traveling is limited so when they compare the cost it reflects on what is being valued. 

 

If one doesn't see the value in $400 they're not going to magically value it if it's free.  Furthermore if a board member is degrading it's value how can we expect others to pay?

29 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

 

I understand you still live down there and don’t want to upset the union co apple cart, but don’t act like training fs in Ky would have been just as effective for zeke’s prep for Fargo last year. If that’s the case I will come on here and wholly apologize when we crank out a dozen or so AAs in the next couple years. 

You obviously missed my point.  I don't find training in one place an effective approach in either style, folk or free.  Like I said Zeke has trained both styles in MO, IN, IA and CO along with his training in KY.  Union County is going to win there 4th consecutive state title next season, which obviously shows that they have some pretty good coaching.  Zeke still went elsewhere.  Why limit yourself?

I never downgraded the value of the dual team. Quite the opposite. Hence my frustration when the decision was made to cancel the team. 

2 hours ago, REscalera said:

If one doesn't see the value in $400 they're not going to magically value it if it's free.  Furthermore if a board member is degrading it's value how can we expect others to pay?

Richard not sure you understand what is going on here. What I am devaluing is our fs state tournament at this point. Why would I support this event when kids have done their part to meet the criteria (however inconvenient and of little value) to be on the dual team only to have the team cancelled. At that point I don’t see value in the upcoming event and do not see a reason to support it when the organization hasn’t supported these kids. 

1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

Richard not sure you understand what is going on here. What I am devaluing is our fs state tournament at this point. Why would I support this event when kids have done their part to meet the criteria (however inconvenient and of little value) to be on the dual team only to have the team cancelled. At that point I don’t see value in the upcoming event and do not see a reason to support it when the organization hasn’t supported these kids. 

I understand and share in your frustration that there isn't a dual team.  But that frustration isn't anything new.  KY as a whole struggles when it comes to putting together a full dual team let alone a competitive one.  And it certainly isn't because we lack talent.  We just lack the talent that is willing to pay $400.  My point from the beginning though was just that I felt like your messages were doing more harm than good and I've always known you to be above that.  

3 minutes ago, REscalera said:

I understand and share in your frustration that there isn't a dual team.  But that frustration isn't anything new.  KY as a whole struggles when it comes to putting together a full dual team let alone a competitive one.  And it certainly isn't because we lack talent.  We just lack the talent that is willing to pay $400.  My point from the beginning though was just that I felt like your messages were doing more harm than good and I've always known you to be above that.  

I don’t know that I am always above that; I quite often speak up when I get frustrated. The reasons I speak up publicly are:

1) this state isn’t making much progress and as you mentioned there are few who are putting in the effort to move it forward

2) we spend hours and hours talking about what we should do and little to nothing actually happens

3) Essentially all wrestling outside the Official KHSAA season is under the guidance of KY USA wrestling; so the distribution of funds to these teams is a board issue and should be in line with our goals

4) why am I spending my time working on the board providing my energy and input to essentially have those efforts crapped on. 

5) i sure hope the cadet team has close to a full lineup for their dual team

25 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

I don’t know that I am always above that; I quite often speak up when I get frustrated. The reasons I speak up publicly are:

1) this state isn’t making much progress and as you mentioned there are few who are putting in the effort to move it forward

2) we spend hours and hours talking about what we should do and little to nothing actually happens

3) Essentially all wrestling outside the Official KHSAA season is under the guidance of KY USA wrestling; so the distribution of funds to these teams is a board issue and should be in line with our goals

4) why am I spending my time working on the board providing my energy and input to essentially have those efforts crapped on. 

5) i sure hope the cadet team has close to a full lineup for their dual team

 

There is no cadet team.  My understanding is that it's for the same reason.  Everybody wanting it for free, which is crap.  The dual is in Washington this year.  How the heck can people expect their kid to go to Washington and wrestle for free.  Which is why I get frustrated when I see a board member on here devaluing the FS national dual team experience. I'm more than willing to pay the $400 because I know the positive impact it will have long term.  But because others don't see it that way they don't see the value and are encouraged and justified by a board member that gets on this forum criticizing KY USA wrestling.  

No cadet team?

No school boy team?

Will there be any representation from team  KY?

11 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

I don’t know that I am always above that; I quite often speak up when I get frustrated. The reasons I speak up publicly are:

1) this state isn’t making much progress and as you mentioned there are few who are putting in the effort to move it forward

2) we spend hours and hours talking about what we should do and little to nothing actually happens

3) Essentially all wrestling outside the Official KHSAA season is under the guidance of KY USA wrestling; so the distribution of funds to these teams is a board issue and should be in line with our goals

4) why am I spending my time working on the board providing my energy and input to essentially have those efforts crapped on. 

5) i sure hope the cadet team has close to a full lineup for their dual team

 

I feel your pain. 

12 hours ago, REscalera said:

  

Richard, again I have in no way devalued the national dual team. Quite the opposite. I believe and have expressed to many kids and parents how important it can be in a wrestlers development. I have been involved in countless team Ky efforts over the last decade at all age levels.

Yes I am being critical of KY USA wrestling because I am very unhappy with the way this has transpired and believe something needs to change. 

The last communication I heard there was only going to be a cadet and girls team. No schoolboy or junior. 

Obviously there is a problem. It seems the first stage to fix it is to get the coaches to get the kids interested in freestyle. More kids signed up and more kids at tourneys will be more money and better wrestlers. 

35 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Richard, again I have in no way devalued the national dual team. Quite the opposite. I believe and have expressed to many kids and parents how important it can be in a wrestlers development. I have been involved in countless team Ky efforts over the last decade at all age levels.

Yes I am being critical of KY USA wrestling because I am very unhappy with the way this has transpired and believe something needs to change. 

The last communication I heard there was only going to be a cadet and girls team. No schoolboy or junior. 

That is a shame.

My son was signed up for competing on the Junior team, competed at Bullit, put down a $250 deposit, registered for state and reserved a hotel room to ensure he qualified to be selected for this team

And there has been zero communication about not having a team.

20 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

And speaking of MS folkstyle duals.  Another event supported and organized under the Ky USA umbrella. That team was free to the participants. Yes Free.  A similarly supported team was the HS scholastic dual team.  I believe those kids were charged $130.  But this developmental team where we are trying to build interest and participation in the Olympic styles is $400???  Explain that one. $270 for an extra singlet and couple nights in a hotel? Not buying that.  

Jason, this is where you devalue the $400 cost for the school boy national duals for Greco and Freestyle. 

As for you points above regarding other tournaments, you and I both know that those aren't apple to apple comparisons. 

The HS scholastic dual is one entry fee. The FS/GR national dual team pays 2 entry fees, 1 for FS and 1 for GR. Which would mean that additional $270 covers an entry fee, a singlet and a couple of days in a hotel.  Sounds like a deal to me. But I'm one of the few informed on the cost of a travel dual team whether folk or free so when I see a rant such as yours, I'm able to see it for what it is which is misleading. Where as most others might see it as credible information coming from a KY wrestling leader leading to parents also saying that it's an outrageous cost because you've devalued it with misleading information.  

As for the middle school folkstyle dual, it hasn't always been completely free and moving forward maybe it shouldn't be if it's going to lead to this attitude that everything should be free.  I would suggest being grateful that one of them was free and use the money you would have spent on that tournament on the schoolboy FR/GR before your rant ends up costing everyone in the future.

We will just have to agree to disagree. Yes I 100% “devalue” the cost differential. It makes no sense. If one of our primary goals is to promote and built the Olympic styles why would we set up a system with a cost differential that doesn’t help with that. We are struggling to get kids involved in freestyle and greco. If we have money in the budget to make a folkstyle Team free then why wouldn’t that be directed at marketing and making the cost lower for the Olympic styles to eliminate that barrier for kids whose parents aren’t on board with jumping into a style that their Hs coaches are not supporting at this point. 

As for entry fees, my understanding was that Ky USA was budgeting to cover that for all teams. Wrestler fees are to cover gear, housing, transport (if applicable). 

This doesn’t have to be that complicated

16 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

If We will just have to agree to disagree. Yes I 100% “devalue” the cost differential. It makes no sense. If one of our primary goals is to promote and built the Olympic styles why would we set up a system with a cost differential that doesn’t help with that. We are struggling to get kids involved in freestyle and greco. If we have money in the budget to make a folkstyle Team free then why wouldn’t that be directed at marketing and making the cost lower for the Olympic styles to eliminate that barrier for kids whose parents aren’t on board with jumping into a style that their Hs coaches are not supporting at this point. 

As for entry fees, my understanding was that Ky USA was budgeting to cover that for all teams. Wrestler fees are to cover gear, housing, transport (if applicable). 

This doesn’t have to be that complicated

If we're going to agree to disagree then why are you still arguing your points?  Agreeing to disagree means we respectfully  end our conversation on the subject being discussed.  If one were to continue after agreeing to disagree it would appear at that point that they just need to have the last word. So shall we agree to disagree? 

Yes WE shall. But I will continue to share my thoughts on these issues with the others interested in this matter and make sure complete information is shared. 

5 hours ago, dp463 said:

That is a shame.

My son was signed up for competing on the Junior team, competed at Bullit, put down a $250 deposit, registered for state and reserved a hotel room to ensure he qualified to be selected for this team

And there has been zero communication about not having a team.

You haven’t received any communication yet?  Wow, at least the schoolboy wrestlers got an email notification and refund. Hopefully you hear soon. 

     $400 may not seem much to some of you but to many it is a significant amount.  The reason Basketball is building in numbers is because the AAU teams have sponsors and the kids pay little to nothing to belong on those teams.  Extreme rural and inner city kids (which is where the majority of the lower income families live), have problems with any type of money going out for an extracurricular activity that one of their children will compete in.  I definitely don't know the answer to this but helping those that are interested is surely the beginning.  I know many will say "they only need to ask" or "they can go out and raise the money."  One even though they have low incomes they are not proud of it and don't want everyone to know and two who are they going to raise the money from?  Those that they know are usually low income families also and they don't have the knowhow to ask companies or businesses, who they in themselves will be skeptical as to what the donation is actually being used for.  

     I don't know the financial limitations of Ky USA wrestling but if there is any money available then it should be used to help these kids along.  Why raise and have money in the coffers if it is not going to be used.  

Just my 2 cents. 

As usual 

These are the opinions of GOO nothing more nothing less.  You can take them or leave them. In the grand scheme of things it really does not matter 

GOO OUT> 

     You want to make freestyle more popular?  Then have more tournaments everywhere.  The problem is that everyone wants to make the tournament a money maker.  I understand that is how you convince a school to hold a tournament.  But why do they have to be at a school?  In NKY I don't know of any freestyle tournaments.  When you ask a kid who is not very interested in freestyle to travel 2 hours or more to compete it usually wont happen.  

     Maybe if we can get some of the freelance wrestling trainers/clubs that have their own facility to hold tournaments with little to no entry fee then we can get more kids involved.  Once they get the USA card then all insurance is covered.  Find officials that would donate time to officiate for free or little cost.  Make the tournament short. Heck if you have a large barn where you can get one or two mats down hold a tournament there.  Set it up like the Youth state if you have to.  Have the kids weigh in and separate weight classes that way.  Sell shirts and other trinkets to make a little money.  That way the parents/kids don't have to if they can't or don't want to spend tons of money.  

     Yeah I know "But the competition wont be that great".  Who cares its about getting these kids interested and having fun while they wrestle.  We have so many great minds and promoters in the wrestling community I know we could get something like this done.  I am not one of them I can't sell water to a man dying of thirst. Here in NkY why not ask Spatola to do something like this.  Heck he may even be able to get more kids to join his training facility. 

I don't know maybe i'm crazy or just loosing my mind to old age. Why could this not work.  "if you build it they will come" Maybe not many at first but gotta start somewhere. 

Always remember its all about the kids and for the kids. 

My kid is coming late to this party and we were unfortunately one of those families who didn’t pay the deposit, not out of spite but simply because we didn’t have it at the time. We are not opposed to paying our way but it’s unfortunate that if there is no team (schoolboy, cadet or junior) that a goal my kid set to try and get selected  will not come to pass. He loves to wrestle. Loves to learn. Gets his butt handed to him often but going to Fargo would have broadened his horizons.

Our high school program went through a coaching change and neither the previous or new coach pushed off season wrestling at all. We just found out about camps last year. Found out about Fargo when I read about it on this forum the week of. 

11 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

     $400 may not seem much to some of you but to many it is a significant amount.  The reason Basketball is building in numbers is because the AAU teams have sponsors and the kids pay little to nothing to belong on those teams.  Extreme rural and inner city kids (which is where the majority of the lower income families live), have problems with any type of money going out for an extracurricular activity that one of their children will compete in.  I definitely don't know the answer to this but helping those that are interested is surely the beginning.  I know many will say "they only need to ask" or "they can go out and raise the money."  One even though they have low incomes they are not proud of it and don't want everyone to know and two who are they going to raise the money from?  Those that they know are usually low income families also and they don't have the knowhow to ask companies or businesses, who they in themselves will be skeptical as to what the donation is actually being used for.  

     I don't know the financial limitations of Ky USA wrestling but if there is any money available then it should be used to help these kids along.  Why raise and have money in the coffers if it is not going to be used.  

Just my 2 cents. 

As usual 

These are the opinions of GOO nothing more nothing less.  You can take them or leave them. In the grand scheme of things it really does not matter 

GOO OUT> 

I don't think Ive heard anyone isay $400 isn't a lot of money.  

On 5/18/2018 at 9:59 PM, REscalera said:

  And it certainly isn't because we lack talent.  We just lack the talent that is willing to pay $400. 

I'm more than willing to pay the $400 because I know the positive impact it will have long term.  But because others don't see it that way they don't see the value........

These two comments sound as if it is not that much money. 

   The way I see it Ky is in a situation between the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS.  What I mean by that is that we have several who are striving for national recognition and glory and many who are not close to that level.  

     What we need to strive for FIRST is to get somewhere in between.  We are trying to jump straight to the top as a state.  We expect everyone to strive to be the best in the nation when for most that is not possible.  We have to play the cards we are dealt.  And we are dealt with kids who have not been wrestling since they were 4 years old.  Most are starting in 7th or 8th grade. (Which is earlier than just 20 years ago when most were starting in High School).  To do this we have to get their whole family involved.  When a parent has 4 kids and one wants $400 to participate in one event this does not translate into value for the family.  Heck I had that problem with GOO JR.  His sister was being left out with the cost of USA cards, tournaments and wrestling camps.  We could not sacrifice family vacations for GOO JR.  

     If we can make freestyle affordable and easy to get to then we get more wrestlers involved and families involved.  Then they will see and be willing to sacrifice a little more towards there kid's wrestling career.  Then as a collective we can help those who are financially unable.  We will have a larger well to pull from.  More families willing to help with cost and travel. 

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

   The way I see it Ky is in a situation between the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS.  What I mean by that is that we have several who are striving for national recognition and glory and many who are not close to that level.  

     What we need to strive for FIRST is to get somewhere in between.  We are trying to jump straight to the top as a state.  We expect everyone to strive to be the best in the nation when for most that is not possible.  We have to play the cards we are dealt.  And we are dealt with kids who have not been wrestling since they were 4 years old.  Most are starting in 7th or 8th grade. (Which is earlier than just 20 years ago when most were starting in High School).  To do this we have to get their whole family involved.  When a parent has 4 kids and one wants $400 to participate in one event this does not translate into value for the family.  Heck I had that problem with GOO JR.  His sister was being left out with the cost of USA cards, tournaments and wrestling camps.  We could not sacrifice family vacations for GOO JR.  

     If we can make freestyle affordable and easy to get to then we get more wrestlers involved and families involved.  Then they will see and be willing to sacrifice a little more towards there kid's wrestling career.  Then as a collective we can help those who are financially unable.  We will have a larger well to pull from.  More families willing to help with cost and travel. 

Being a father with 5 kiddos I know exactly what you're speaking about when it comes to spending $400 on 1 event.  However, I also know that there are ways to raise money as opposed to thinking someone owes you something and expecting it for free just because.  Why in the heck would anyone expect $400 to try out a sport to see if they like it.  Even worse why would anyone give away $400 to someone to see if they like it.  I can't wrap my mind around either.  

Today was a great day. We had a solid turnout, and even saw some state champs compete against each other. There were a gang of state placers competing against each other as well. I can’t speak on the other issues of dispute in this thread, but I do know it was a great day of competitive wrestling in front of a few college coaches who were in attendance. 

For what it’s worth, it’s been my personal experience that in order to get sponsors, sponsors need to know about and have tad of passion for the sport. Not many local businesses/sponsors are as familiar with wrestling like they are for football, basketball, and baseball, regardless of our progression.

8 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

These two comments sound as if it is not that much money. 

When taken out of context, I can understand how one might take it that way. 

10 hours ago, matreturn said:

My kid is coming late to this party and we were unfortunately one of those families who didn’t pay the deposit, not out of spite but simply because we didn’t have it at the time. We are not opposed to paying our way but it’s unfortunate that if there is no team (schoolboy, cadet or junior) that a goal my kid set to try and get selected  will not come to pass. He loves to wrestle. Loves to learn. Gets his butt handed to him often but going to Fargo would have broadened his horizons.

Our high school program went through a coaching change and neither the previous or new coach pushed off season wrestling at all. We just found out about camps last year. Found out about Fargo when I read about it on this forum the week of. 

Go to central or southeast regionals next weekend.  If he places top 4 he qualifies for Fargo......i believe.  

GOO - just a couple follow ups to your questions and good suggestions. The state freestyle/greco tournament was held at Campbell county the last couple years. Attendance was so so at best. We didn’t see many “extra” NKY kids show up. As for officials volunteering, Garrett Pikul, Jim Hardin, and Toska Adams all donate a ton of their time for events all around the state (and country for that matter; heck I guess even world) and definitely do their part as officials to promote the Olympic styles. They even went out of their way to reach out to me to volunteer for the All Star match. Can’t say enough about these folks. 

I was pretty sure the state FS tourney was held at campbell for a few year.  But what about the rest of the season.  A kid hears state tourney and if he never wrestled it before thinks "I can't compete there".  I was speaking more of tourneys kids can get there feet wet at.  

I know that there are tons of people already donating time, and I did not mean to act as if there were not. I'm sorry if it came across that way.  I've been beating my head against a wall to get kids to wrestle FS and the two things they tell me.  "We can't get there" and "we don't have the money". 10-15 years ago I took these kids and helped get money for them, but am unable to do that anymore. 

I would love for it to become popular again like when I was a kid and Joe Neely had his AAU program and there were 50+ kids from NKY wrestling, There was a tourney almost every week either in NKY or Cincy.