Are they finished? Has Section 3 wrestled?
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Large School State Duals
Topic ID: 14808 | 91 Posts
7 minutes ago, DrBaker said:Are they finished? Has Section 3 wrestled?
Section 3 makeup is thursday at Montgomery county.
Montgomery, Johnson central, Madison central, and Whitley are wrestling a quad
14 minutes ago, DrBaker said:4 is Oldham and Woodford?
Oldham defeated woodford last night 34-21
On 1/16/2019 at 11:19 AM, coachteater said:Section 3 makeup is thursday at Montgomery county.
Montgomery, Johnson central, Madison central, and Whitley are wrestling a quad
Any results from this?
59 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:Any results from this?
I haven't gotten full story yet, but it didn't happen last night. Im told that Johnson Central and Madison Central will wrestle before state duals, but i do not know details.
19 hours ago, thegreatgatsby said:St. X, Trinity and Moore wrestle tonight at Moore.
What were the results of these duals?
Are Johnson Central and Madison Central going to wrestle?
If not it goes to criteria correct?
Head to head , then win percentage?
This bracket will be made tonight. Can’t wait to see how this seeding will play out! Lol
1 minute ago, charger said:Are Johnson Central and Madison Central going to wrestle?
If not it goes to criteria correct?
Head to head , then win percentage?
Johnson Central is so secretive, they probably want to change the names of their wrestlers so no one knows who is where come regionals.
35 minutes ago, charger said:Are Johnson Central and Madison Central going to wrestle?
If not it goes to criteria correct?
Head to head , then win percentage?
No. The kywca voted unanimously that they wrestle friday night to decide one and two. Johnson central says they will be there, Madison says they will not. Johnson central will weigh in and receive the forfeit and the #1 . And this gives everyone an extra lb as well on Saturday
43 minutes ago, coachteater said:No. The kywca voted unanimously that they wrestle friday night to decide one and two. Johnson central says they will be there, Madison says they will not. Johnson central will weigh in and receive the forfeit and the #1 . And this gives everyone an extra lb as well on Saturday
JC can weigh in 1 kid and win 6-0.
I'm excited to see Christian, JC and MC with their dream lineups set. Will their varsity middle school kids go with high school or middle?
My top 3
Johnson Central
Christian County
Oldham County
it will be hard to match up with jc. They are solid all the way through and hammers from 170-285.
43 minutes ago, Nike Man said:So why would the criteria change from one year to another?
Obviously no one can provide a logical answer to this! I don't understand how the rules change when you get to the seed meeting. Whoever cries the loudest usually wins the argument. Maybe the solution would be to eliminate teams who do not have a full roster taking up the top 6 seeds or have a wrestle back for a true 2nd place and a true 4th place.
The solution would be to continue with sectionals, but seed all 12 teams that qualify and use the criteria that was sent out to everyone (small school did not do that last night though). All sectionals were supposed to have been completed by Wednesday the 23rd so why is there even supposed to be a dual tonight between those two schools. If they did not complete it before Wednesday the 23rd it would go to criteria which would give the seed possibility to the undefeated Madison Central team. Now they will be unseeded and possibly have Christian County, St. X, Oldham County, Simon Kenton in pool play.
Just because a team loses at sectionals does not mean they are not seedable at State Duals in my opinion. Especially when you have some hammer sections and some others that are very soft and weak. Something has to change.
Undefeated Christian County vs undefeated Madison Central in POOL PLAY!!!! What a load of CRAP! KYWCA has some explaining to do tomorrow morning. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
If anyone wants to debate Madison’s undefeated record due to the bull crap dual that never happened tonight, come see me. You know who I am.
1 hour ago, Nike Man said:Undefeated Christian County vs undefeated Madison Central in POOL PLAY!!!! What a load of CRAP! KYWCA has some explaining to do tomorrow morning. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
I can hear you saying "Terrible. Terrible. Tuuuuuuurrible." in my head hahaha
14 hours ago, coachteater said:No. The kywca voted unanimously that they wrestle friday night to decide one and two. Johnson central says they will be there, Madison says they will not. Johnson central will weigh in and receive the forfeit and the #1 . And this gives everyone an extra lb as well on Saturday
Does anyone know why Madison Central decided not to wrestle tonight?
2 hours ago, Nike Man said:If anyone wants to debate Madison’s undefeated record due to the bull crap dual that never happened tonight, come see me. You know who I am.
Who has Madison Central defeated this year?
They have a zero loss record. They have knocked off everyone that they have wrestled.
49 minutes ago, Beefstew said:Does anyone know why Madison Central decided not to wrestle tonight?
Does anyone know why JC decided not wrestle Madison Central multiple times this year?
Does anyone know why the KYWCA chose to make some pretty ballsy decisions without getting the permission from the majority of the state?
My guess is NO, you DON’T. This State Duals has gone against everything that this state is working towards. It also works against all you “coaches” voted for just a year ago. Time to be held accountable.
6 minutes ago, Nike Man said:They have a zero loss record. They have knocked off everyone that they have wrestled.
That’s pretty impressive. Who have they wrestled?
10 minutes ago, Nike Man said:Does anyone know why JC decided not wrestle Madison Central multiple times this year?
Does anyone know why the KYWCA chose to make some pretty ballsy decisions without getting the permission from the majority of the state?
My guess is NO, you DON’T. This State Duals has gone against everything that this state is working towards. It also works against all you “coaches” voted for just a year ago. Time to be held accountable.
I’m not sure why you’re getting so bent out of shape about this or where you’re getting your information? You say that Johnson Central decided not to wrestle Madison Central multiple times. This is just plain ole fake news. The sectional duals were scheduled for January 12th at Johnson Central. Many teams including Madison Central cancelled because of bad weather that never materialized. They fell victim to the talking heads that were predicting a major winter storm. I was in Louisville on the 12th and they didn’t even cancel the area youth league games, but according to some in Central Kentucky is was going to be too bad to travel to Johnson Central.
Then the sectional was rescheduled to Wednesday the 16th. Madison Central and Montgomery County agreed to travel to Johnson Central to see who would qualify for the state duals. Then another strange plot developed when Madison Central’s coach called and said that they wouldn’t be able to travel such a long distance to Paintsville because of a school policy about travel distance on a week night. Then it was supposedly moved to Montgomery County the following day(Thursday). I’m not sure why that didn’t happen but I was told the new host school never made plans to host. I’m not sure what happened there.
Finally, it was agreed on that both Johnson Central and Madison Central would wrestle on the night before the state dual meet. Well we all know now that Madison Central backed out of that one as well. So your accusation that JC decided not to wrestle MC “multiple times this year” is nothing but pure BS.
If my memory is correct, the same crap happened last year, but the Madison Central people were pleased with the outcome of the seeding because they received the number one seed of the sectional despite the fact that there was never a sectional dual. I don’t recall anyone from the JC program getting on here and crying like you’re doing now.
I’m kinda confused as to why you’re blaming the KYWCA board members for Madison Central’s fate. Wrestling is the perfect sport to settle matters like this and you know this. But you to have to wrestle. You can’t expect to get a number one seed all the time based on an undefeated dual record. I’ve asked multiple times who MC has wrestled in a dual, but so far you haven’t answered. Your program has pulled this stunt two years in a row and they’ve made their own bed and now they’re lying in it. It isn’t anyone’s fault but their own.
Good night wrestling fans. I’m looking forward to the action tomorrow.
Look, I’m not with Madison and I don’t have anything against JC, but rules and criteria are put into place for a reason. I agree, it will get settled on the mat. JC has a great team this year. This isn’t a fight against them. This is a fight about integrity. We can’t bend and change the rules every time something doesn’t go our way. Just feels like the good ol’ boy system.
I agree with sticking to criteria. In the small school bracket how did a one loss team get the 2 seed when there were 2 other undefeated teams? I do agree they are probably the 2nd best team in small school bracket but criteria says they are not. Someone with 2 losses should have argued for the 1 seed. I’m sure Union wouldn’t care where they are seeded!
46 minutes ago, 119Rider said:Looks like Madison Central is 2-2 thru 4 duals so far per Duke.
Losses to Christian County and Moore, not sure what their two wins are.
Finals are Moore and Johnson Central
1 hour ago, 119Rider said:Looks like Madison Central is 2-2 thru 4 duals so far per Duke.
They’re 1-2. They defeated Simon Kenton 38-35 to get their first win of the day.
With 5 matches left in the championship dual between Johnson Central and Moore the score is JC-43 - Moore 0
20 hours ago, Nike Man said:Undefeated Christian County vs undefeated Madison Central in POOL PLAY!!!! What a load of CRAP! KYWCA has some explaining to do tomorrow morning. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
Looks like the committee was correct with their seeding.
No, actually they didn’t. If they got it right, Christian Co would be wrestling Johnson Central in the finals and Oldham would have wrestled Simon Kenton for 3rd.
6 minutes ago, Nike Man said:No, actually they didn’t. If they got it right, Christian Co would be wrestling Johnson Central in the finals and Oldham would have wrestled Simon Kenton for 3rd.
I was referring to you questioning Madison Central's seed?
8 minutes ago, Nike Man said:No, actually they didn’t. If they got it right, Christian Co would be wrestling Johnson Central in the finals and Oldham would have wrestled Simon Kenton for 3rd.
Christian had the opportunity to wrestle Johnson Central but they were defeated by Moore in round two. I believe they got it correct. How would’ve you seeded it?
54 minutes ago, Bluesdad said:With 5 matches left in the championship dual between Johnson Central and Moore the score is JC-43 - Moore 0
Pretty weak to see JC not accept the challenge from Union County. First time a team declined. What is their reasoning behind this?
30 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:Pretty weak to see JC not accept the challenge from Union County. First time a team declined. What is their reasoning behind this?
Just curious... why the negativity toward JC. Nothing week about winning a duals meet. Personally I thought all the teams looked good. Ky wrestling is looking bright. And BTW, the tournament was well ran. Thank you to all the workers that helped put it on.
1 hour ago, REscalera said:I was referring to you questioning Madison Central's seed?
54 minutes ago, Beefstew said:Christian had the opportunity to wrestle Johnson Central but they were defeated by Moore in round two. I believe they got it correct. How would’ve you seeded it?
To knock out 2 birds with one stone. It’s not about JC. It’s about not following the rules set forth and voted on by our coach’s association. JC would have clearly won today regardless of where they fell in the pool. That not even the point. Beefstew, you ask me how I would have seeded it, clearly my answer would be by the criteria that was already in place. Would it have changed the outcome? Probably not. I haven’t cared from the start about the outcome, it has always been about following the rules. That’s all.
34 minutes ago, matreturn said:Anyone know why Woodford took a forfeit against Oldham County?
Woodford and Oldham just wrestled a week or so ago in their Sectional and they will meet again at Regionals. I think it speaks volumes about Woodford and Oldham to be from the same Sectional and Region and consistently place top 4 at State Duals. We actually wrestled each other in the State Duals finals a few years back.
Woodford forfeited to Oldham because we have battled injuries all season and had more injuries occur in the semis against Moore. Wasn’t worth it. We will see them at regionals. Call it what you want but as a coach my athletes well being and health is more important than a dual against Oldham. Missing Yost and Cardwell already hurt, but now with more kids banged up, I had to make the call.
Thanks for the explanation. Couldn’t make it out to the State Duals today and just saw results on track. Curious was all. Both programs are exceptional.
Why would you wrestle Union? What other sport in the world do you win a title then go off and put it on the line? Good for JC, use the the win to build off of and go for state team title. Wrestling Union does nothing for the team and proves nothing. "Hm...we just won let me go wrestle Union, that will really help my team for state"!
You want Union to wrestle the winner, remove the small/large title and have them wrestle some tougher programs. Prior to the split, Union wasn't winning state duals or state, they were around, up and coming but now who challenges them in small school?
7 minutes ago, takedownartist1 said:Why would you wrestle Union? What other sport in the world do you win a title then go off and put it on the line? Good for JC, use the the win to build off of and go for state team title. Wrestling Union does nothing for the team and proves nothing. "Hm...we just won let me go wrestle Union, that will really help my team for state"!
You want Union to wrestle the winner, remove the small/large title and have them wrestle some tougher programs. Prior to the split, Union wasn't winning state duals or state, they were around, up and coming but now who challenges them in small school?
They did win the duals right before the split. They also had 5-6 state tournament titles by the time of the split. They don’t shy away from competition. Both teams are already there in the same gym. I imagine they’d rather wrestle in the large school division if possible to get better competition. Why not challenge your team against union or johnson central. They’ve challenged every year and the large school winner has never backed down. Looks bad on JC’s end. I know the Union guys were wanting the challenge. Just my two cents.
I agree, why would you want to wrestle Union? Wrestling them proves that this Big School/Small School stuff is a joke. KY IS NOT BIG ENOUGH!! I’ve said that from the get go. There were some coaches that really pushed hard for that small school crap back in the day hoping they could win a trophy. Instead, Union County has dominated the State duals and the State Tournament for a while now. I respect the hell out of Union Co. Do I want to beat them, absolutely. Are they the best in KY? No question about it.
Oh so it's a requirement now? No other sport does somn like that. You think the coach is more concerned with Union or building towards state title run?? No brainier.
Coaches do what's best for his guys/team and putting them in a good position. Applaud the decision. Go wrestle region 6 see if you qualify all 14 guys, let me know those results
7 minutes ago, takedownartist1 said:Oh so it's a requirement now? No other sport does somn like that. You think the coach is more concerned with Union or building towards state title run?? No brainier.
Coaches do what's best for his guys/team and putting them in a good position. Applaud the decision. Go wrestle region 6 see if you qualify all 14 guys, let me know those results
This is comical. Region 1 isn’t some lowly region where anyone who makes weight and has a heartbeat makes state. That’s beside the point. Wouldn’t you think putting your guys against some top ranked wrestlers at a dual like that would benefit your guys more than skipping the opportunity? I guess forfeiting out 4-5 classes in duals after a significant lead makes your guys battle tested to “build towards a state title run”. It’s a bold strategy, but you have to love that attitude and competitiveness.
LOL, find the sport that does that and give me the example, please. I'm not here to appease Union. Your right, who isn't in region 1 is not for this thread. 
haha
Props to JC and their coach!
43 minutes ago, takedownartist1 said:Why would you wrestle Union? What other sport in the world do you win a title then go off and put it on the line? Good for JC, use the the win to build off of and go for state team title. Wrestling Union does nothing for the team and proves nothing. "Hm...we just won let me go wrestle Union, that will really help my team for state"!
You want Union to wrestle the winner, remove the small/large title and have them wrestle some tougher programs. Prior to the split, Union wasn't winning state duals or state, they were around, up and coming but now who challenges them in small school?
Why would you take a loss? F that. Tuck tail and run. Seems logical.
19 minutes ago, takedownartist1 said:Oh so it's a requirement now? No other sport does somn like that. You think the coach is more concerned with Union or building towards state title run?? No brainier.
Coaches do what's best for his guys/team and putting them in a good position. Applaud the decision. Go wrestle region 6 see if you qualify all 14 guys, let me know those results
Based on what I saw today they would qualify all 14 guys in Region 6
Just now, rjs4470 said:Based on what I saw today they would qualify all 14 guys in Region 6
True.
Every year so far the small school champ challenges the big school. It has been accepted every other time. It’s a great matchup and a great show. Seemed to be fun and in no way insulting. If Union would have known it wouldn’t happen, they would have pushed to be included in the big school division.
Curious how many times in the last 25 years or so was the best dual team a small school?
7 hours ago, LCalum said:Curious how many times in the last 25 years or so was the best dual team a small school?
16 hours ago, DocHoliday said:Just curious... why the negativity toward JC. Nothing week about winning a duals meet. Personally I thought all the teams looked good. Ky wrestling is looking bright. And BTW, the tournament was well ran. Thank you to all the workers that helped put it on.
I agree with you Doc. Nothing weak about that. No matter what Johnson Central does people are going to hate.
A coaches job is to prepare wrestlers to win every match. It’s also their job to wrestle as many opponents that are capable of defeating said wrestlers. If you don’t wrestle the best, chances are you’ll never be the best. Coach must challenge his kids. Undefeated regular season means zero come state.
I thought wrestling was supposed to create boys to men. Now it’s looking like a lot of crying on here. I’m just going by reading all the comments and never seen grown men cry like this just move on and try to be better next season. Heck thats all you can do it’s not going to change anything.
Looking at JC roster it may be the best lineup they’ve ever had. Why not test the waters and wrestle Union Co. Chance to beat them head to head and carry that momentum into regions and state? Not many teams have been able to compete. Would have been a great dual to watch. But.....I guess we will never know, who was the best head to head. How cool would it be if they were to wrestle “Main Event” style at a neutral site sometime before regions??
Or just do away with big school and small school? Maintain the same sections and maybe make it a 2 day tournament? It’s not like a small town high school with 75 kids enrolled aren’t already competing against big city schools with 2,000+ enrollees when it comes to individual titles.
yeah scrap the two divisions and go back to 16 team (top two teams from each region). it was created to spread the sport, mainly at the smaller schools and give them a chance to say "we competed at state duals." it was worth it as we've seen small programs flourish. now everyone has had a shot to finish runner-up to Union, clearly the best program of the last decade. so go back to the easier and less controversial set-up. just my two cents.
Keep it the way it is to allow the small schools to compete against each other. Crown only on champ and allow 2v2, 3v3 from the 2 sides and on down the line. If done this way everyone will get 5 matches.
11 minutes ago, Chris Duke said:Keep it the way it is to allow the small schools to compete against each other. Crown only on champ and allow 2v2, 3v3 from the 2 sides and on down the line. If done this way everyone will get 5 matches.
I love that idea. The catch is when a team doesn't want matches, they just want a trophy.
I feel most of the Small Schools in contention want more than a trophy.
I KNOW one that wants more than a trophy...
I for one think there is no wrong answer here. If you want to wrestle then wrestle if not go home with your kids on a high note. You came to that tourney with one goal to win a State Title you did that; mission accomplished great job JC and congrats to you Union County great guys, team and happy to consider them friend/. Use the win to get ready for what really matters all year long Individual Regionals and the chance to win the overall State Title. If they left this tourney happy healthy and with a title then they are in better shape than a lot of other teams who may have faced injuries. Coaching is more than just wrestling every match possible its an emotional sport and ride that wave while you can and let your kids enjoy what they earned. If the powers want to make it a thing to wrestle big school/little school one title then set it up in 2 sides of one bracket 1 Little and 1 big with one champ or set up an alternate Saturday a week or 2 after State to have them in a off-season dual winner take all at least that way both teams gets to enjoy their success they had earned. Great job to all the teams that made it that far and to UNION and JOHNSON CENTRAL for the win. Congrats Champs.
1 hour ago, DrBaker said:I love that idea. The catch is when a team doesn't want matches, they just want a trophy.
If all they want is a trophy it would be a runner up trophy. One champ, one runner up. After that it’s 2nd place small school, 2nd place big school and on down.
I am really confused. People you can't have it both ways. Larue made a living off of dual team wins. They forfeited out when they could not win or could not lose. Regardless if I like it or not that is part of the game. Football does it all the time with the remaining time on the clock, Basketball foul for the last seems like 5 minutes of every game.
THE MAIN GOAL IS TO WIN. And Johnson Central did just that they won the Large School title. Nothing is truly gained by wrestling Union. Of course they are there to win a trophy. If not then why give one out. Don't kid yourself. Every team goes to the state duels, to try and win a trophy. If you tell me you don't believe that then I think you are lying to yourself and you actually don't believe it. (why do you think they bump people around) otherwise send your 14 varsity guys and keep them in their wt. classes and go)
Like my old coach told me. Yes we are here to have fun, but its always more fun when you win and bring home the hardware.
7 hours ago, panthers said:Lets face it the overall Champion is Sat Feb 16th.
Ridiculous statement. Ask all the other teams that won a state duals tournament what they think.
Union and Johnson central both won and deserve all the accolades. But part of the reason the current format was setup the way it is so that the option to wrestle champion vs champion is available.
My take on this situation is that there is a precedent set that the large school and small champs always wrestle each other. However, its not a requirement. I understand the backlash JC receives for the decision they made, but should they deserve it, imo no. They made a choice to not wrestle which is not a requirement, but maybe it will come back to bite them at the big show. As a coach, you want to seek out the best competition, look where your guys made mistakes, and fix them. That’s how you get better. If JC doesn’t want to take advantage of that opportunity, fine, but there is a chance that it will hurt them in the long run.
28 minutes ago, HawkeyeX125 said:My take on this situation is that there is a precedent set that the large school and small champs always wrestle each other. However, its not a requirement. I understand the backlash JC receives for the decision they made, but should they deserve it, imo no. They made a choice to not wrestle which is not a requirement, but maybe it will come back to bite them at the big show. As a coach, you want to seek out the best competition, look where your guys made mistakes, and fix them. That’s how you get better. If JC doesn’t want to take advantage of that opportunity, fine, but there is a chance that it will hurt them in the long run.
Their decision to not wrestle Union was to "build toward a state title run". It's not like they would have lost their large school state duals title. They even give away separate Large and Small school titles at individual state, but people only remember the team who won.
20 hours ago, DrBaker said:I love that idea. The catch is when a team doesn't want matches, they just want a trophy.
I really like that idea as well!!
1 hour ago, HawkeyeX125 said:My take on this situation is that there is a precedent set that the large school and small champs always wrestle each other. However, its not a requirement. I understand the backlash JC receives for the decision they made, but should they deserve it, imo no. They made a choice to not wrestle which is not a requirement, but maybe it will come back to bite them at the big show. As a coach, you want to seek out the best competition, look where your guys made mistakes, and fix them. That’s how you get better. If JC doesn’t want to take advantage of that opportunity, fine, but there is a chance that it will hurt them in the long run.
This is probably the most logical thought yet. I can understand both sides of this but as a former coach this statement rings true. I always sought after the competition that was the toughest and that I might see later in districts or state. I felt I could better prepare my kids if I saw a kid more than once a year. I don't fault what JC did because their coach has his teams best interest in mind. We don't know the team chemistry there but he does. Great job to both teams and look for a great state tourney from all teams.
Not suggesting it’s right, wrong, or indifferent, but it looks like Johnson Central jumped out to big leads in their duals, and forfeited the rest of the weights once the dual(s) was sealed. Maybe they’re attempting to mitigate the risk of injury (which has bit them in the past). I know quite a few kids have been playing football since July. They made it to the state championship in December and immediately started wrestling season the following week. They’re the only team in the state that has had to deal with that kind of schedule. It would have been interesting to see how the dual would have gone since Union’s dual with Graham was cancelled. The drama leading into Horse Park would have been something we’ve not had in a while.
3 hours ago, HawkeyeX125 said:If JC doesn’t want to take advantage of that opportunity, fine, but there is a chance that it will hurt them in the long run.
Maybe coach Matney believes that Union would have benefited much more from the dual than they would have. If he truly believes this then he made the right call.
Congratulations JC! Way to get it done. #GreatTeam! So many programs dealing with injury's I guess Coach Matney didn't believe the risk was worth the reward. Coach wanted to get his kids to the state tournament healthy. Its to late in the year to risk injury in a duel that doesn't count. If you asked the JC kids if they wanted to wrestle again? I'm sure they all would have strapped on the head gear and been ready to roll. You can't take anything away from JC win. If you have any negative feelings they should be directed at JC coach? Not the kids. I think JC coach made the right decision. Stay healthy and get ready for state!
On 1/27/2019 at 9:04 AM, coachteater said:
Not sure who is in charge but 2001 is incorrect. LaRue beat St X in the championships and not Woodford County.
3 hours ago, DamonMBarnes said:Not sure who is in charge but 2001 is incorrect. LaRue beat St X in the championships and not Woodford County.
Working on getting it fixed