Question.......are we allowing “offseason” club teams to compete in the Youth State Duals as an actual team now? I see at least 3 different teams represented on this roster. If this were the case every team could’ve pulled from other schools.
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Youth State Duals
Topic ID: 14835 | 44 Posts
I’ve never known this to be allowed. Did the rules change this year? It’s quite sad that teams that have full rosters already have to do this.
I have a feeling a proposal will be brought up in the spring meeting to make sure it doesn’t happen again. If not, I’m looking for a couple other Louisville/Oldham teams that want to create a Jugger-Nots team for next Youth State Duals.
Just kidding. I don’t want to look as desperate as that team. I say we fix the loophole.
Was it really a team of hand picked All-Stars (Hammers) ? At a Regular season State team duel? Did they win it?
30 minutes ago, TigerCoach said:I have a feeling a proposal will be brought up in the spring meeting to make sure it doesn’t happen again. If not, I’m looking for a couple other Louisville/Oldham teams that want to create a Jugger-Nots team for next Youth State Duals.
Lol
The rules applied only to middle school actually. But just to clear up, we were not some “all-star super team” put together. If you look at the new regions ours is the biggest to include some of the more populated areas to make the regions more equal. Our teams have technically practiced and competed together for years. The schools are roughly 30 minutes apart and the kids all know and love each other. We just gave this team a name this year for when we do this so it would be a mutual team, not saying we’re one or the other. And we’ll be competing more in the future. Look, some if these clubs have kids from an area wider than what our kids are from. So I see no harm for us to combine 2 small teams that already compete against & with one another who simply cannot fill a roster by themselves. It wasn’t a one time thing, just a new name. Our kids work hard and put their heart and souls into this. They are literally a band of brothers and for you all to assume anything else is ignorant on your part.
Yea its not the kids fault. They just wanted to wrestle.I heard about this earlier. I hope they figure this out. We do want the sport to grow.
Only thing it comes down to is all you city people are a little upset you got beat by a bunch of hard working country boys, and we did it with class. End of story.
21 minutes ago, JuggernautMom said:The rules applied only to middle school actually. But just to clear up, we were not some “all-star super team” put together. If you look at the new regions ours is the biggest to include some of the more populated areas to make the regions more equal. Our teams have technically practiced and competed together for years. The schools are roughly 30 minutes apart and the kids all know and love each other. We just gave this team a name this year for when we do this so it would be a mutual team, not saying we’re one or the other. And we’ll be competing more in the future. Look, some if these clubs have kids from an area wider than what our kids are from. So I see no harm for us to combine 2 small teams that already compete against & with one another who simply cannot fill a roster by themselves. It wasn’t a one time thing, just a new name. Our kids work hard and put their heart and souls into this. They are literally a band of brothers and for you all to assume anything else is ignorant on your part.
Well, you didn’t combine 2 small teams though. You picked the best kids from each weight class from at least THREE different teams. Pike, Johnson, and Martin. Of which, all of those teams have more than enough to fill a roster on their own. Hopefully the loophole gets fixed and this cheating doesn’t happen again. Desperate move.
Kentucky needs to grow the sport. Just do it fairly. I'm sure they could become a club team and enter. Whatever that loophole is. Figure it out and correct it. That's my opinion. I'm sure next year will be fun!
7 minutes ago, JuggernautMom said:Only thing it comes down to is all you city people are a little upset you got beat by a bunch of hard working country boys, and we did it with class. End of story.
No. Not at all. If each region of the state created an all star team the playing field would be even. Had teams known this was allowed everyone would’ve had s full team and pulled kids from here, there, and everywhere.
Y’all really need to get your facts straight before you speak because anyone who knows our area knows it was Martin county and the Warhawks from Pike county. We are both small teams (roughly 20 kids each starting each season) mostly of which are very young kids (grades K, 1 & 2). Most of which are around the same weight. Martin has about the same situation. We had 1 kid come in from Johnson county because he practices with both our teams regularly as well. It’s no different than these larger wrestling clubs (For example Carr) who have 30-40+ kids from different counties/schools picking their best wrestlers at each weight class to do a dual. A lot of our kids, including mine, even wrestled a heavier weight class than normal.
And if it makes you feel any better our kids were all 4th grade and below. Birth year 2008 and on. Pretty sure none over the age of 10 yet. So go ahead and say we were “stacked” with the best of it makes you happy, but our kids out wrestled your older, heavier kids.
I didn’t want to comment on this to start a fight cause y’all are gonna say what you want. I just wanted anyone who was misinformed about our team to know the truth. All these babies on this team feel like my own. I’ve watched them grow from the time they started and wrestling has brought all these amazing kids together in a way no other sport can. You don’t get that kind of comradery anywhere else.
Competitiveness has made them great. Determination has made them unstoppable. Respect has made them friends and the love of the sport has made them brothers.
Actually Carr’s kids competed for Carr the week before at Regions. What region did the EKY Juggs compete in? Also, the Carr team didn’t even fill all the weight classes in the dual. And FTR, both Pike and Martin have bigger teams (and JC) than carr so your comment is bull. Everyone knows the intent of state Duals is for teams who wrestle as teams during the year compete. If EKY Juggs had been competing as a team throughout the year together no one would have said a word. But that didn’t happen. Those kids wrestled for their home teams. The coaches used the lack of wording to thier advantage to form a team. Why didn’t Martin Co or Pike take their regular teams? Both had more kids than Carr? Why did they need to pick up anyone from JC. And just so you know tons of kids from other teams train at Carr in summer...didn’t see them wrestling with Carr yesterday.
Lastly, give everyone a break with the against us country people. Last time I checked McCracken Co isn’t exactly a booming metropolis nor is Union Co....and those two areas are flat out getting it done in this state.
Looks like from the graphic you just posted Martin Co and the Warhawks seem to be getting things done as well. Does anybody know who won State at Division 2 last year? And... who was runner up?
Fact is nobody cheated. Some people got their lil feelings hurt and that’s it. The Juggernauts did everything they were supposed to do and played by the rules and won. So... if you don’t like it change the rules. But you can’t cry that somebody cheated if no rules were broken.
On 1/26/2019 at 9:38 PM, Charger31 said:No. Not at all. If each region of the state created an all star team the playing field would be even. Had teams known this was allowed everyone would’ve had s full team and pulled kids from here, there, and everywhere.
So... if everyone would have known this was allowed everyone would’ve had a full team and pulled kids...?
Sounds like you should maybe find better coaching. AND you admit that it IS allowed. This case seems closed and I’m bored.
Since track wrestling info has already been brought out let’s throw out another one. Current standings are the Warhawks Wrestling Club is ranked 21st in the Nation. The next closest KY team is River City at 102. Warhawks won region by only a few points to Martin. Martin Cardinals beat the Warhawks in 2018 at State. Point is this....neither team “needed” to combine nor were they “desperate” to do so. No cheating was done because there was no rule in place add the rule that’s fine We will just show up and knock even more off the podium
We wanted to come together....didn’t have to, didn’t need to, neither was desperate. We can win seperate or we can win together. I guess the question is does anyone else want to place?? Lol
Bunch of sore losers. Competition breads competition. This is wrestling for crying out loud, not a wimpy sport for a bunch of whiney men. We came to wrestle. We mostly compete in TN, WV, VA so we were looking for some good KY competition. Eastern KY has never to my knowledge competed in the State Duals and clearly we weren’t welcomed by all. Of well, guess we will see ya next year and we will play by all rules just as we did this year.
One big happy family! 2018 @ State. You know why we are so good. Our kids make each other better, our Coaches coach together, we compete together or against each other but mostly we support each other.
They couldn't have combined every team there except maybe for Maritime and beat the Juggernaut team. I heard JC didn't have the youth numbers this year or planned on taking a youth team so they used one kid from them.
5 hours ago, BigSlick said:They couldn't have combined every team there except maybe for Maritime and beat the Juggernaut team. I heard JC didn't have the youth numbers this year or planned on taking a youth team so they used one kid from them.
HAHA someone has been breathing too much coal dust.
Set it up. Outside of Maritime feel free to build a team from the kids and schools that were there and post it. Im sure the Juggernauts would love to have it..
Juggernauts bashing teams on facebook lol. Look at all the teams with low numbers who still showed up to compete!
22 hours ago, Proudwresltingmom said:One big happy family! 2018 @ State. You know why we are so good. Our kids make each other better, our Coaches coach together, we compete together or against each other but mostly we support each other.
Parents already making enemies with the wrestling community at the elementary level. This could end up being a great rivalry for years to come. Or this could get ugly all thru middle school.Posting pictures rubbing in the win? I know one thing, there a several great Ky programs, who are looking foward to the Juggernauts return. Walton, Ryle, Carr academy, McCracken, Union, Scott, Anderson, Madison Central, River City, Cambell, Johnson central, Woodford, and several others will keep producing studs. Now the Juggernauts will be the team to beat in middle school IF THEY CAN BECOME A CLUB TEAM. If not it will just be that year everyone remembers the trash talk that never got sanctioned as a team. But we can always look back at the pictures posted of this " Team " Either way good luck to everyone involved. Remember its about the kids. When you trash talk for them, they have to back it up, not the parents!
23 hours ago, Proudwresltingmom said:Since track wrestling info has already been brought out let’s throw out another one. Current standings are the Warhawks Wrestling Club is ranked 21st in the Nation. The next closest KY team is River City at 102. Warhawks won region by only a few points to Martin. Martin Cardinals beat the Warhawks in 2018 at State. Point is this....neither team “needed” to combine nor were they “desperate” to do so. No cheating was done because there was no rule in place add the rule that’s fine We will just show up and knock even more off the podium
It's one thing to win and be classy. Its another thing to try and justify the loophole in the system. Talk trash about some of the best programs in the State of Kentucky. In middle school will see who has the last laugh. If I was with Juggernauts I would be more concerned with becoming a sanctioned team. Than bathing in a loophole victory. I'm not bashing the kids. They showed up, with good intentions. This is to the parents keeping this going. Get your team sanctioned as a team. I find it distasteful. You won thru a loophole. From what I heard the team was great. Just do it the right way.
11 hours ago, BigSlick said:They couldn't have combined every team there except maybe for Maritime and beat the Juggernaut team. I heard JC didn't have the youth numbers this year or planned on taking a youth team so they used one kid from them.
Petty man. Your saying Nobody could beat em? Even if everyone pulled together? You are talking trash that the kids will have to back up. You should really stop.
1 hour ago, TheScrambler said:Juggernauts bashing teams on facebook lol. Look at all the teams with low numbers who still showed up to compete!
1 hour ago, TheScrambler said:Parents already making enemies with the wrestling community at the elementary level. This could end up being a great rivalry for years to come. Or this could get ugly all thru middle school.Posting pictures rubbing in the win? I know one thing, there a several great Ky programs, who are looking foward to the Juggernauts return. Walton, Ryle, Carr academy, McCracken, Union, Scott, Anderson, Madison Central, River City, Cambell, Johnson central, Woodford, and several others will keep producing studs. Now the Juggernauts will be the team to beat in middle school IF THEY CAN BECOME A CLUB TEAM. If not it will just be that year everyone remembers the trash talk that never got sanctioned as a team. But we can always look back at the pictures posted of this " Team " Either way good luck to everyone involved. Remember its about the kids. When you trash talk for them, they have to back it up, not the parents!
1 hour ago, TheScrambler said:Parents already making enemies with the wrestling community at the elementary level. This could end up being a great rivalry for years to come. Or this could get ugly all thru middle school.Posting pictures rubbing in the win? I know one thing, there a several great Ky programs, who are looking foward to the Juggernauts return. Walton, Ryle, Carr academy, McCracken, Union, Scott, Anderson, Madison Central, River City, Cambell, Johnson central, Woodford, and several others will keep producing studs. Now the Juggernauts will be the team to beat in middle school IF THEY CAN BECOME A CLUB TEAM. If not it will just be that year everyone remembers the trash talk that never got sanctioned as a team. But we can always look back at the pictures posted of this " Team " Either way good luck to everyone involved. Remember its about the kids. When you trash talk for them, they have to back it up, not the parents!
This pic is from 2018. Not sure how this pic is the Juggernauts rubbing things in. This pic is proof these teams and coaches have a close relationship.
1 hour ago, TheScrambler said:It's one thing to win and be classy. Its another thing to try and justify the loophole in the system. Talk trash about some of the best programs in the State of Kentucky. In middle school will see who has the last laugh. If I was with Juggernauts I would be more concerned with becoming a sanctioned team. Than bathing in a loophole victory. I'm not bashing the kids. They showed up, with good intentions. This is to the parents keeping this going. Get your team sanctioned as a team. I find it distasteful. You won thru a loophole. From what I heard the team was great. Just do it the right way.
We would love to have came to state duals and competed and nothing been said. However, certain teams decided they would not allow that. I felt like we have stayed classy but we grow tired of accusations that there was some big loophole that we exploited. None of the coaches had ever went to state duals. What we did is seen what was required and met those requirements. There was no big secret meeting of the minds to circumvent holes in the rules, that’s nonsense.
10 hours ago, TheScrambler said:Petty man. Your saying Nobody could beat em? Even if everyone pulled together? You are talking trash that the kids will have to back up. You should really stop.
Just stating facts. Exclude Maritime and I truly believe thats a fact. They beat oldham county like 74-3. Fern creek didnt score a point.. oldam county beat Carr...Also as damron stated none of these coaches had ever been to the state dual. Had no idea they're would be all the drama. We brought a team to compete and we brought our best ....apologize for the racket we caused but look forward to competing soon. Wish all the teams in ky the best of luck. I think everyone's tempers (including myself) got raised. I do know that Juggernaut coaches didnt purposely look for a loophole. They are a group of friends who made a team to come and compete
Pretty sure the cheat shots were taken out on our kids and coaches before anything from our side was said. People were posting our kids names and stats from region first. It’s all there. Actually we submitted our information a week prior to the tournament. We weren’t hiding anything. I mean no disrespect to anyone especially children. But when grown men try to take away something that was rightfully earned don’t think I’m going to sit there and take it. Our kids earned it and they should be proud. We will work just as hard next year and show up according to the rules. End of story.
The entire State of Kentucky vs Warhawks Nation, coming soon. Anyone trying to better Kentucky wrestling. I have to support it.
If this is what it takes to make the sport grow, im all for it! Lol. For real though, good luck to everyone this weekend!
WARHAWK NATION IS COMING !!
14 minutes ago, BigSlick said:
My kid wasn’t on the Juggernauts, but he is a Warhawk. Is it a rule that kids cannot compete for two different Sanctioned teams? If this is the case than NO club wrestler would be eligible to wrestle for their Schools youth program. Both the Warhawks & the East Ky Juggernauts are USA Wrestling Chartered Club Teams. We both serve the Youth in Eastern Kentucky—and Eastern KY is obviously underserved in Youth Wrestling because we are 2 of 4 teams that serve Pike, Floyd, Martin, Johnson, Perry, & Lawrence Counties.
12 minutes ago, WarhawkMom said:My kid wasn’t on the Juggernauts, but he is a Warhawk. Is it a rule that kids cannot compete for two different Sanctioned teams? If this is the case than NO club wrestler would be eligible to wrestle for their Schools youth program. Both the Warhawks & the East Ky Juggernauts are USA Wrestling Chartered Club Teams. We both serve the Youth in Eastern Kentucky—and Eastern KY is obviously underserved in Youth Wrestling because we are 2 of 4 teams that serve Pike, Floyd, Martin, Johnson, Perry, & Lawrence Counties.
Good lord, WHY are you people STILL trying to justify this. The Juggernauts can be a sanctioned club all they want for as long as they want. That’s not the problem. This is clearly an offseason team. That’s fine. In the history of the youth state duals, to my knowledge, it has always been and was designed to be for IN SEASON teams which means that the 3 combined teams for the Juggernauts should have entered on their own and not combined together. The lack of wording on the flyer describing this was used to your advantage. There WILL be a vote at spring meeting and it WILL be changed so that this doesn’t happen again. And, please give us a break with the whole “we’re just trying to grow the sport” crap. How are you growing the sport when you tell little Timmy that’s wrestled 75lbs all season long for Martin Co that he doesn’t get to participate at the youth state duals because you’re taking a combined team of 3 schools and we really want little Johnny from Pike co not you. That’s not growing the sport!!!
1 hour ago, Charger31 said:Good lord, WHY are you people STILL trying to justify this. The Juggernauts can be a sanctioned club all they want for as long as they want. That’s not the problem. This is clearly an offseason team. That’s fine. In the history of the youth state duals, to my knowledge, it has always been and was designed to be for IN SEASON teams which means that the 3 combined teams for the Juggernauts should have entered on their own and not combined together. The lack of wording on the flyer describing this was used to your advantage. There WILL be a vote at spring meeting and it WILL be changed so that this doesn’t happen again. And, please give us a break with the whole “we’re just trying to grow the sport” crap. How are you growing the sport when you tell little Timmy that’s wrestled 75lbs all season long for Martin Co that he doesn’t get to participate at the youth state duals because you’re taking a combined team of 3 schools and we really want little Johnny from Pike co not you. That’s not growing the sport!!!
Like I said, my kid is NOT a Juggernaut, but he is a Warhawk. If he wanted to be a part of the Juggernaut team he should’ve wrestled harder. There’s no shame and no bad blood. These kids still practice together and see each other every week. They’re all still friends.
On 1/31/2019 at 5:54 PM, Charger31 said:Good lord, WHY are you people STILL trying to justify this. The Juggernauts can be a sanctioned club all they want for as long as they want. That’s not the problem. This is clearly an offseason team. That’s fine. In the history of the youth state duals, to my knowledge, it has always been and was designed to be for IN SEASON teams which means that the 3 combined teams for the Juggernauts should have entered on their own and not combined together. The lack of wording on the flyer describing this was used to your advantage. There WILL be a vote at spring meeting and it WILL be changed so that this doesn’t happen again. And, please give us a break with the whole “we’re just trying to grow the sport” crap. How are you growing the sport when you tell little Timmy that’s wrestled 75lbs all season long for Martin Co that he doesn’t get to participate at the youth state duals because you’re taking a combined team of 3 schools and we really want little Johnny from Pike co not you. That’s not growing the sport!!!
Good Lord. Why are people still crying over this? The Juggernauts obviously weren’t concerned about your opinion or they would’ve asked for it. The rules were followed. The state duals were decided on the mats. If there is a vote in the spring, so be it! But don’t cry somebody cheated when they obviously didn’t. They may not have met YOUR rules but it doesn’t seem ANYBODY is concerned with your rules. The Warhawks and the Cardinals have bigger rosters than they’ve ever had so somebody is growing the sport. Maybe you don’t know as much as you think you do. This is really getting old. It’s over with. Pull up your big girl panties and get over it!
Seems to me this all goes back to school teams being held hostage to USA wrestling. Forcing school teams Middle and Youth to get a USA card when it is not necessary. Create school teams they will be covered by the schools insurance and go from there. Then there will be no club teams dominating the younger leagues.
1 hour ago, JDamron said:Good Lord. Why are people still crying over this? The Juggernauts obviously weren’t concerned about your opinion or they would’ve asked for it. The rules were followed. The state duals were decided on the mats. If there is a vote in the spring, so be it! But don’t cry somebody cheated when they obviously didn’t. They may not have met YOUR rules but it doesn’t seem ANYBODY is concerned with your rules. The Warhawks and the Cardinals have bigger rosters than they’ve ever had so somebody is growing the sport. Maybe you don’t know as much as you think you do. This is really getting old. It’s over with. Pull up your big girl panties and get over it!
I absolutely agree!! It’s really sad that Youth Wrestling in KY comes down to all of this crying. It will do absolutely nothing but hold our athletes back. Wrestling is dominate in several other states & they openly allow and welcome Club Duel teams (and it shows in their athlete success and rankings).
Ultimately its the kids kids that lose when adults whine and cry because they don’t feel like something is fair. No athlete is going to get better unless they are encouraged to take chances and wrestle harder competition. I am thankful for the relationship that the Warhawks have with the Cardinals. Our kids are pretty awesome and they work together well. Practice is fun when we have Cardinals show up to drill with us. It helps all of our athletes grow.
45 minutes ago, WarhawkMom said:I absolutely agree!! It’s really sad that Youth Wrestling in KY comes down to all of this crying. It will do absolutely nothing but hold our athletes back. Wrestling is dominate in several other states & they openly allow and welcome Club Duel teams (and it shows in their athlete success and rankings).
Ultimately its the kids kids that lose when adults whine and cry because they don’t feel like something is fair. No athlete is going to get better unless they are encouraged to take chances and wrestle harder competition. I am thankful for the relationship that the Warhawks have with the Cardinals. Our kids are pretty awesome and they work together well. Practice is fun when we have Cardinals show up to drill with us. It helps all of our athletes grow.
Sorry, l just can’t take it anymore.... Why is this thread still on here ? First things first what you are saying about other States opening allowing “Club” Dual Teams in competion.... those are open Dual Team Tournaments. Not State Based Dual Team Tournaments. Trust me we been to Alot of them, On Alot of Different Club Teams. Yes you played by “The Rules” and Won CONGRATS !!!!! Regardless of if you were or were not trying to cheat...Maybe... Maybe Not ?? Honestly I DON’T CARE !! Nor does anyone outside of this thread, but when you go saying you could beat the best teams out there, and the Warhawks are on the Rise... Come on You really think that if Carr, Maritime or Ryle put there best 5th or 6th grade and below teams out there they couldn’t beat you. Oh wait and they can combine with other Neighboring teams, because we’re “ALL FRIENDS” and practice really good together. Look at those team MS Rosters from this year and last... the 4th, 5th, and 6th graders from those teams wrestle MS... Look even Closer Most of those kids placed or Won MS State. Truthfully l don’t have a Dog in the fight my son wrestle MS now and has since 4th grade due to seeking better Comp. but from the outside looking in, if The East Juggs would just stop responding to all this Crap it would all go Away ... Good Night and Good Luck To All The KIDS !!!!