Several Schools are out tomorrow for cold weather.. How many days of missed school, before a extra pound is given?

I’ve never understood this, why give an extra pound when they’ve already been given the 2lb growth allowanance because you missed a day or two of school. How about teaching kids to learn how to manage there weight 

I personally see no reason for it.

I could be wrong but I believe you get a pound if schools are closed the day before a weigh-in, plus an extra pound for consecutive days before that.  Ex:  if a school is closed Thursday AND Friday, an extra two pounds would be awarded.  Correct me if I am wrong though, but I believe that’s how it was in the old days lol

i belive that is correct but not if we are closed today but open rest of the week.

10 hours ago, 44 dad said:

I’ve never understood this, why give an extra pound when they’ve already been given the 2lb growth allowanance because you missed a day or two of school. How about teaching kids to learn how to manage there weight 

Easier said than done.  

So I guess your all in favor of many kids missing weight and not having a good tournament. Or only those kids missing weight from schools who will not allow them to practice on days off.   

I would venture to say that you are a parent who is totally into their kids extra curricular activities.  I commend you on that.  But there are many many more out there who never see their kids participate mostly by their choice.  These kids are already at a disadvantage because they don't have someone helping them at home maintain weight.  

I say you cut weight and it’s too difficult you shouldn’t have done it in the first place. Consider your self lucky you get the two pounds

I never understood the 2 pound "Growth allowance" I agree if you can't make the weight with the additional 2 pounds extra you already are been given! You shouldn't need another pound.

The 2 pounds That's already been given, should cover any situation ,that could occur.

I agree with the 2 pounds in Middle School more than High School.  These kids are growing like crazy.  Some kids/areas do not have the resources as others to get workouts in.  If their isn't any school give the kids their pound or two.   This is middle school we need to keep our eye on the prize, keep the kids on the mat for High School and beyond.

Well here’s an idea if they commit to dropping weight then make them do it. It’s called commitment for a reason. You don’t reward the bigger stronger kids again dropping down and making it easier for them. Wrestling is the sport it is for a reason if it were easy everyone would be doing it. If you were keeping your eye on the prize then you wouldn’t be encouraging weight cutting to get an advantage in middle school. Instead  just focusing on getting better we’re your at. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Good chance NKY Schools dont have school Friday either, that would be 3 days off before state. 

There is no need for any additional allowances. Don't tell me that because there was a snow day that these kids grew by 2 lbs. They already got 2 pounds before Christmas and now you want to give them another 2? The 70 lb weight class might as well be 75 lbs and so forth. If you can't make weight because of a school snow day and you need 2 more lbs than what you have already been given then you are in the wrong weight class or you are cutting heavily to get there.

Being withing a couple of pounds of your wrestling weight class (ie 70 lbs and walking around 72) is weight management, if you need an additional 2 lbs because you're walking around at 74+ plus then your are simply cutting weight.

Does "no school" mean that a kid can't dress in his sweats at home and do push ups and sit ups? Practice is not the only way for athletes to get a workout.

If cutting weight is what your kid feels he needs to do in order to be more competitive, then be prepared to make sacrifices that other kids aren't or don't have to.

BTW, not all NKY schools were off today. Boone County did not close.

I agree. In practice, a growth allowance rarely accommodates for growth of podium-level wrestlers throughout the wrestling season. Instead, the top kids often wrestle at higher weight classes throughout the season and then drop to lower weight classes (plus the growth allowance) for regionals; the end result is the exact opposite of what the growth rule is meant to encourage (e.g., healthy growing kids).

Since the wrestlers are only required to maintain a given weight class for two weeks after regionals, I personally see no need for the "growth" allowance and would happily hold the wrestlers to scratch weight. An additional snow-day allowance only works to further the advantage of heavier kids that already cut weight for regionals.

1 minute ago, Gabe.Applegate said:

I agree. In practice, a growth allowance rarely accommodates for growth of podium-level wrestlers throughout the wrestling season. Instead, the top kids often wrestle at higher weight classes throughout the season and then drop to lower weight classes (plus the growth allowance) for regionals; the end result is the exact opposite of what the growth rule is meant to encourage (e.g., healthy growing kids).

Since the wrestlers are only required to maintain a given weight class for two weeks after regionals, I personally see no need for the "growth" allowance and would happily hold the wrestlers to scratch weight. An additional snow-day allowance only works to further the advantage of heavier kids that already cut weight for regionals.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. 

19 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Easier said than done.  

So I guess your all in favor of many kids missing weight and not having a good tournament. Or only those kids missing weight from schools who will not allow them to practice on days off.   

I would venture to say that you are a parent who is totally into their kids extra curricular activities.  I commend you on that.  But there are many many more out there who never see their kids participate mostly by their choice.  These kids are already at a disadvantage because they don't have someone helping them at home maintain weight.  

You are absolutley right Goo l am that all in Dad who is there for both of my boys extra curricular activities.... (especially Wrestling) But, even more so then that l am that Dad that makes them stand by the  choices they make,  if my son says he’s going 75lb then he’s going to make 75 before he gets the 2lb allowance, that way if he hits a growth spert he’s covered its a simple commitment thats why they say Wrestling is the toughest sport, not just physically but mentally as well. So what about the pour kid who is wrestling up 2-3lbs already because all in Dad doesn’t want him cutting at a young age,  you give 2lbs for growth and 2lb more cause of snow days now pour Jonny is down 6-7lb for a State Tournament would you call that a disadvantage ? I sure would... Lets face the kids who are going to be on the Podium are not going to miss weight over being off school acouple of days. You are just making it easier for THEM.  Ky is growing there are all kinds of places to take your kids outside of school practice and if they don’t have all in Dads l bet there is a bunch of them ( All in Dads)  on there team that will pick them up and take them, if they want to go... l do it all the time, not to mention  whatever happened to the Treadmill or pushups and situps. Bottom line is we all TALK about growing and being more competitive with OH and PA , but there are not enough people out there that want to hold to there standards. 

2 hours ago, sigearhead said:

There is no need for any additional allowances. Don't tell me that because there was a snow day that these kids grew by 2 lbs. They already got 2 pounds before Christmas and now you want to give them another 2? The 70 lb weight class might as well be 75 lbs and so forth. If you can't make weight because of a school snow day and you need 2 more lbs than what you have already been given then you are in the wrong weight class or you are cutting heavily to get there.

Being withing a couple of pounds of your wrestling weight class (ie 70 lbs and walking around 72) is weight management, if you need an additional 2 lbs because you're walking around at 74+ plus then your are simply cutting weight.

Does "no school" mean that a kid can't dress in his sweats at home and do push ups and sit ups? Practice is not the only way for athletes to get a workout.

If cutting weight is what your kid feels he needs to do in order to be more competitive, then be prepared to make sacrifices that other kids aren't or don't have to.

BTW, not all NKY schools were off today. Boone County did not close.

Preach!!!!! 

1 hour ago, Gabe.Applegate said:

I agree. In practice, a growth allowance rarely accommodates for growth of podium-level wrestlers throughout the wrestling season. Instead, the top kids often wrestle at higher weight classes throughout the season and then drop to lower weight classes (plus the growth allowance) for regionals; the end result is the exact opposite of what the growth rule is meant to encourage (e.g., healthy growing kids).

Since the wrestlers are only required to maintain a given weight class for two weeks after regionals, I personally see no need for the "growth" allowance and would happily hold the wrestlers to scratch weight. An additional snow-day allowance only works to further the advantage of heavier kids that already cut weight for regionals.

 

Lol agreed! 

#44 Everyone is on fire today! Well said!

Guess I have that rare kid that went from wrestling 105 in 5th grade to 182 as a freshman.  The 2 pounds is there for kids who need it.  Some will abuse it, that is the part that we have to live with. We can’t punish the ones who need growth for the ones who abuse it.

 Good luck this weekend to all the young wrestlers competing. 

Kentucky needs to give growth allowance like Oh. you do not get it until you have made scratch weight.  Back when I wrestled once you made scratch weight you got 1lb in Jan. then another in Feb.

Not that l’m much for either one but, Growth Allowance is different then snow days allowance... 

16 minutes ago, heavy83 said:

Kentucky needs to give growth allowance like Oh. you do not get it until you have made scratch weight.  Back when I wrestled once you made scratch weight you got 1lb in Jan. then another in Feb.

Back when you wrestled you had to walk 5 miles up hill both ways to and from school.  See ya tonight.

1 hour ago, Chris Duke said:

Guess I have that rare kid that went from wrestling 105 in 5th grade to 182 as a freshman.  The 2 pounds is there for kids who need it.  Some will abuse it, that is the part that we have to live with. We can’t punish the ones who need growth for the ones who abuse it.

 Good luck this weekend to all the young wrestlers competing. 

I fully understand your point, but there is no weight management program for KY MS wrestlers, i.e., it doesn't matter what a KY MS wrestler weighs at the beginning of the season versus the end. Why not just have the middle schoolers wrestle the weight they weigh when they weigh it, i.e., scratch weight?

On a somewhat related note, I will never understand why KY youth wrestling is separated based on birth year instead of current age. For example, separating by birth year severely penalizes kids with late birthdays (e.g., November or December), whereas separating by current age (on the day of competition) puts everyone in the same boat (e.g., 9-10 year olds wrestling 9-10 yr olds). I get that some kids might have birthdays right before a big tournament, but separating by age means that (1) all the kids wrestling each other are the same age, and (2) everyone gets to experience being the oldest or the youngest in their age group at some point in time.

9 hours ago, 44 dad said:

You are absolutley right Goo l am that all in Dad who is there for both of my boys extra curricular activities.... (especially Wrestling) But, even more so then that l am that Dad that makes them stand by the  choices they make,  if my son says he’s going 75lb then he’s going to make 75 before he gets the 2lb allowance, that way if he hits a growth spert he’s covered its a simple commitment thats why they say Wrestling is the toughest sport, not just physically but mentally as well. So what about the pour kid who is wrestling up 2-3lbs already because all in Dad doesn’t want him cutting at a young age,  you give 2lbs for growth and 2lb more cause of snow days now pour Jonny is down 6-7lb for a State Tournament would you call that a disadvantage ? I sure would... Lets face the kids who are going to be on the Podium are not going to miss weight over being off school acouple of days. You are just making it easier for THEM.  Ky is growing there are all kinds of places to take your kids outside of school practice and if they don’t have all in Dads l bet there is a bunch of them ( All in Dads)  on there team that will pick them up and take them, if they want to go... l do it all the time, not to mention  whatever happened to the Treadmill or pushups and situps. Bottom line is we all TALK about growing and being more competitive with OH and PA , but there are not enough people out there that want to hold to there standards. 

     I also was one of those dads.  I also would not allow GOO jr. to lose any wt. whatsoever.  He wanted to drop 3 lbs to get to the lower wt class and I told him no.  I told him you will lose weight when in High school no need to do so as a middle school wrestler.  Since then I have some close ties with kids on a team that has almost no parental support.  These coaches pick up kids and take almost all of them home after practice.  Those parents that are involved can't or won't take them to out of season events and the such.  These are the kids I am talking about.  Many of which get themselves up on saturday morning and their parents don't even know where they are wrestling at that day.  Heck they had no practice yesterday because 20% of the parents said no its to cold, even after the coaches offered to pick them up. Now granted none of these kids are cutting hard and need the pound allowance but someone else in a similar situation may. 

    As mentioned middle school wrestling is about getting them ready for and interested in High School Wrestling.  Even the High school KHSAA allows for a 1 lb allowance for missed school.  I have been a huge proponent of following high school rules and middle school kids should follow the high school wt. loss procedures in decent plans.  They are younger and growing faster than most high school kids

8 hours ago, heavy83 said:

Kentucky needs to give growth allowance like Oh. you do not get it until you have made scratch weight.  Back when I wrestled once you made scratch weight you got 1lb in Jan. then another in Feb.

I wrestled under the same rules.  Man we are old. LOL> 

I feel like the whole "growth allowance" and "snow allowance" is getting away from the reason we have the wrestlers weigh-in before they wrestle: on a given day, wrestlers should be wrestling other wrestlers of comparable weight. Not to be harsh, but if a kid weighs more on a given day because he/she comes from a bad home, then he/she should wrestle other kids of comparable weight on that same day (i.e., there should be no "handicaps" in wrestling).

For example, if a first kid weighs 77.9 lbs on a given day, then he/she should wrestle other kids that weigh > 75 lbs & <= 80 lbs (i.e., 80 lb bracket). If a second kid weighs 73.1 lbs on that day, then he/she should wrestle kids that weigh > 70 lbs & <= 75 lbs (75 lb bracket). If the kids weigh out differently on a different day, then they should be placed in appropriate brackets for their respective weights on that different day. How is it fair to make the second kid that weighs 73.1 lbs (i.e., belongs in the 75 lb bracket) wrestle the first kid that weighs 77.9 lbs (belongs in the 80 lb bracket)? I am sure that in at least one bracket, with the growth and snow allowances, this exact situation will come up this weekend.

No one is having this weight allowance discussion about the youth state tournament - the youth kids will wrestle their scratch weight. Of course the difference isn't that youth kids aren't growing, or aren't affected by snow days. Rather, the difference between youth and HS is that youth does not have weight management requirements. MS also does not have weight management requirements and, just like youth, MS should be scratch weight for regionals and state (e.g., look which forum we are posting in).

At the end of the day, weight allowances open the door for MS kids to walk on the mat with documented weight advantages over their competition.

In theory Gabe this is great but in practice almost impossible to accomplish.  The reason the Youth tourney is a managed chaos is because of this exact reason.  

Because youth has no wt classes is why a weight management procedure is not needed.  But at the middle school level it is a must.  Getting teams to a tournament with no wt. classes is chaotic at best.  There would be no set schedule no set medals and awards.  

What you are suggesting is like telling a football team you can't play your 200lb lineman because the other team does not have anyone that size.  Rules are set up to help manage and control the running of teams and tournaments. Rule changes occur to help improve these situations that pop up and there is some uniformity.  In the end whatever the rules are is what will be abide by.  

Middle school wrestling is just that the middle.  Youth is totally about getting kids interested in wrestling where middle school is getting them ready for high school.  My discussion may seem like I am in favor of wt allowance for snow, where in actuality I am not.  I am just explaining why it is there and understand why it is there.  

Just for perspective.....my nephew has been wrestling at a weight class in MS all season and giving up 10-12lbs instead of cutting the 2lbs to make the weight class closer to his actual weight. He’s been beating the tar out of bigger kids because his technique is superior. Although there are some advantages to cutting fat from your frame to wrestle at a weight class with maximum muscle mass and minimum fat content, technique trumps brute strength every time. 

When I wrestled in OH(24 yrs ago lol) if I remember correctly; we would have to certify our weight around December, wrestle at least 1 match at the actual weight class, and send a certified form to the OHSAA. So I was wrestling at 152 and I had to make that actual weight and wrestle a 152 match to certify, then in January we’d get 1lb growth weight  and February we’d get 1lb. Seems like a sensible way to go about it.

Thank you grappler-of-old and Uncle Spam for providing some perspective. I really do understand the reasoning for the current rules (e.g., defined weight classes, growth allowance, and snow allowance) and could argue either side. By the way, from the perspective of the smaller guys, giving up 10-12 lbs in the finals is very significant.

I very personally know one little guy who did not cut at all (i.e., ate/drank normally, stepped on the scale at regionals/state, and wrestled his scratch weight) and lost his state finals match two years in a row to wrestlers who dropped two weight classes for regionals/state. I'm glad he got good matches out of both of those MS state tournaments, and I wouldn't bat an eye about taking him back to the same matches again. Neither of those final matches would have ever happened if we had been at a national tournament wrestling scratch weight (e.g., he had never wrestled either kid before regionals/state and never wrestled either of them again).

I am not a huge fan of losing wt. at the middle school level. As mentioned earlier by not allowing GOO jr. to drop weight.  The main reason I think the (Fat test) should be done at the middle school level is that it will help the coaches of these teams.  Liability will be almost nil if you have a body fat test that is sanctioned by the national federation used to determine minimal wt. class.  Puts the responsibility on the parents/wrestler along with the coach.