This is just last years regional results with the seniors removed. No predictions on who will move up weights or change teams. Its just a look at who is possibly returning. 

Looks good

Frazier missed weight at 106 last year at States...  I was looking foward to watching him.. He would have been a tough out...He's a good wrestler.. So he definitely will be up a weight class or 2 .. I would guess.

On 7/15/2019 at 1:47 PM, Kentucky Grappling said:

Frazier missed weight at 106 last year at States...  I was looking foward to watching him.. He would have been a tough out...He's a good wrestler.. So he definitely will be up a weight class or 2 .. I would guess.

Not sure what team hes on just yet. 

I made a couple small changes. Still unsure of where a few are going to school and what weights people will be at. You coaches can send your lineups if its not top secret and I'll make changes. I'll make the big changes after the Iowa Preseason nationals. Region 1 is gonna be tough again this year. Possibly the top 3 teams in the state. 

I realized that Nickal left McCracken to be AD at Tilghman and his assistant is now the head PT coach. Knew that. But how are some of these McCracken kids moving to PT? And retaining eligibility? Did I miss something? Sorry for being out of the loop, I'm down here in Tennessee and can't keep up.

From what I'm hearing and looking at the football roster, all but the Vlach brothers have left McCracken. I have no clue how they can all get eligible. We will see how it all unfolds. 

Just a heads up to those relatively new to this forum. Please refrain from discussing eligibility issues. I don’t recall all of the specifics, but this is a policy that has been used historically on this site. That is a subject left to the KHSAA and schools to determine. 

I know that is the juicy gossip that a lot of people want to chat about, but remember we are talking about kids here and dragging them through the mud doesn’t make anyone look good. 

No bad words at all from me. I want the kids to be able to wrestle. It's still the same team in a different singlet. 

1 minute ago, DrBaker said:

No bad words at all from me. I want the lids to be able to wrestle. It's still the same team in a different singlet. 

Agree. I didn’t intend to accuse anyone of anything, but as soon as we open up the discussion someone will go down that path of claiming improprieties. So it is best to avoid discussions about the eligibility of any kids. 

You simply stated he fact some kids are at different schools. That is totally appropriate. 

This whole story is intriguing. When in the history of amateur sports has almost a complete team hopped up and moved? It's just wild. Even wilder is that they could be a top 5 team. 

Sorry, wasn’t aware that was a forum rule. Didn’t mean to insinuate anything by it, just was genuinely curious and intrigued, as Dr. Baker said. I have no dog in the fight, just a unique situation that is interesting to a fan of the sport. Apologies for touching on eligibility. 

No problem at all guys. I just wanted to touch on that before things spiraled out of control. I agree it is an interesting situation   But I would say the most of the history of McCracken county wrestling has been quite interesting. Could make a movie with all the story lines. 

I honestly hope all can compete this season. These boys deserve to be on the mat.

Best thing is the first match is fast approaching.

15 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Agree. I didn’t intend to accuse anyone of anything, but as soon as we open up the discussion someone will go down that path of claiming improprieties. So it is best to avoid discussions about the eligibility of any kids. 

You simply stated he fact some kids are at different schools. That is totally appropriate. 

That will be a couple chapters in Nickal's book. I'd buy it. 

I'll update with any input I get. Some teams have a good idea what weight everyone should be at. 

On 10/2/2019 at 5:02 PM, DrBaker said:

I'll update with any input I get. Some teams have a good idea what weight everyone should be at. 

Season is around the corner. There is going to be some top notch matches within this region.

Could be the 3 best teams in the state all trying to take 14 kids to state. 

Keaton Elliot and Ethan Futrell are on Calloway County's roster. Great additions to that team. Austin Grant-Hall (state placer in 7th grade) is added to Christian Co.  I'm sure they all will enter the rankings. 

Just my 2 cents, if its worth that much.  

This situation is why I advocate that the state duels be the official state title team, and have the individual bracket tourney be just that.  No team scores kept. 

On 11/6/2019 at 2:25 PM, grappler-of-old said:

Just my 2 cents, if its worth that much.  

This situation is why I advocate that the state duels be the official state title team, and have the individual bracket tourney be just that.  No team scores kept. 

If that was the case GOO, shouldn't it be mandatory that the winners of the large and small school divisions wrestle for the overall title instead of run from a challenge?

You would either have one tourney for the overall title with no division.

Or 

Keep the divisions and have multiple champions and no overall like Ohio. 

Personally I don't like the overall if you have divisions, nor the expectation that there should be.  It takes away the reason for the division separation. 

If you want to combine the divisions for an overall while keeping the divisions then set the tournament up as a single elimination tourney.

The winners of the small bracket wrestle the winner of the big bracket for the title. 

The semifinalist losers wrestle for 3rd and 4th. (The small school runners up and large school runners up)

You won't be able to complete the tourney in one day. 

On 11/7/2019 at 2:33 PM, ukpridewrestler11 said:

If that was the case GOO, shouldn't it be mandatory that the winners of the large and small school divisions wrestle for the overall title instead of run from a challenge?

I thought the same thing when he said that, lol. I do think Union should be entered into the big school side this year. 

4 hours ago, DrBaker said:

 I do think Union should be entered on the big school side this year. 

Why? 

They are a small school.  Small school and large school are determined by number of students at your school, not how good of a team you are. 

you don't see Graham in Ohio going from Division II to Division I. 

So NO I don't think it should be mandatory that the large and small school winners wrestle for the overall title. 

I don't really follow the state duals so who supposedly ran from Who? I don't know who won small and large school. 

If you say Union, then that is a laugh.  They have nothing to prove at state duals it ultimately means nothing since it is not the official state title. 

2 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Why? 

They are a small school.  Small school and large school are determined by number of students at your school, not how good of a team you are. 

you don't see Graham in Ohio going from Division II to Division I. 

So NO I don't think it should be mandatory that the large and small school winners wrestle for the overall title. 

Why- because they they dominated the small schools last year and they would want the challenge. I do understand why they have divisions. In the case of how small KY is, it's kind of useless. And, I do think it should be mandatory. Fans pay money to watch the best teams wrestle and didn't get to see it. 

1 hour ago, DrBaker said:

Why- because they they dominated the small schools last year and they would want the challenge. I do understand why they have divisions. In the case of how small KY is, it's kind of useless. And, I do think it should be mandatory. Fans pay money to watch the best teams wrestle and didn't get to see it. 

Easy for you to have that perspective when your a Union Co fan. Imagine being a Johnson Central fan watching that team winning their first State Duals with kids and parents excited to turn around and possibly lose to Union in a dual where there is nothing to gain. There isn’t an “overall State Duals Championship” so there is no reason for the dual. Coach Matney made a great decision for his program. On a side note, Union could have their hands full with Paducah Tillman on the small school side this year. 

3 minutes ago, JB said:

Easy for you to have that perspective when your a Union Co fan. Imagine being a Johnson Central fan watching that team winning their first State Duals with kids and parents excited to turn around and possibly lose to Union in a dual where there is nothing to gain. There isn’t an “overall State Duals Championship” so there is no reason for the dual. Coach Matney made a great decision for his program. On a side note, Union could have their hands full with Paducah Tillman on the small school side this year. 

I don't disagree with that point of view at all. I'm looking forward to a dual against Tilghman on Jan 17th. 

On 11/8/2019 at 4:29 PM, DrBaker said:

Fans pay money to watch the best teams wrestle and didn't get to see it. 

Most fans pay to see their kids and their team wrestle there are very few there to just see wrestling with no dog in the fight.  

Remember this is not a KHSAA sanctioned event.  This is a coaches association event.  If the coaches want to make the tournament to where the two champions wrestle all they have to do is change the rules.  Remember when this was 1st developed Union was not the top dog it was Woodford/Campbell/Trinity,Ryle,and St. X..  The small schools wanted their own division because they were tired of being beat up by the large school.  

The coaches wanted separate titles, if they want a single title then they need to change the rule. 

This is kind of like saying Brock Ervin should have wrestled the champion of an upper wt. class because there was no competition at his weight. 

I disagree with you GOO. Region 1 teams weren’t complaining.... not too long ago it was two small schools going to state duals from region 1 when it was 1 division. We got our butts handed to us by JC and other large schools. Not one complaint about it from coaches or kids.

the small school split actually was when union won the duals and larue won it the year prior.

Personally, I am for whatever grows wrestling KY. So the split made sense to grow the sport, but I was against it because I personally liked wrestling the larger schools. But I can set aside personal opinions for growing the sport in KY.

I do think large/small winners should wrestle. You’re there and why not test yourselves against the best. 

I had no issue with JC not wrestling Union last yr as it was my understanding they were banged up pretty good. Gotta do what’s best for your team, but if health isn’t an issue, then wrestle. 
 

just my opinion which isn’t worth much. 
 

I personally don't understand the competition angle in dual tourneys.  Wrestling is not like team sports where you compete your team against another.  Wresting is an individual sport where your individuals gather points for the team.  There is a possibility to not see one good match between two teams because they either don't match up or they bump them around. 

But I am also not a fan of dual tourneys.  I want to see the individuals not the team with bumping and not trying to get pinned and the such. And if you wrestled Larue in the past then you would get forfeits at when the dual winner was determined.  I watched Larue forfeit the last 3 wt. classes 3 matches in a row because they had already won the dual.  Where is the competition in that? 

I for one love the team aspect. I was never good enough to beat Joe Carr, but I could do my part to beat someone in my weight class for a team win. I really do like the split. It gives teams a chance to compete. Its rare that a small school can hang with St X, Trinity, and Ryle, but Union is that exception. I think exemptions to the rules can happen. Why not bump Union up and let Tilghman, Walton Verona, and Larue battle it out for a small school title?

This would just muddy the water.  Lets go the other directions. Why not allow weaker large schools go down to the small school division so they can compete?

People just want to see the anomaly of a small school being the top dog.  If the roles were reversed and Johnson Central had been the dominant team for several years no one would be complaining about the champions not wrestling. 

Small schools have always wrestled the big schools as far as I know none have backed down from a challenge. This year Union, Tilghman and Walton Verona should compete with the best big schools. 

I really wish I could understand your thought process on this.  Allowing those teams to compete might take out some of the big schools which would have qualified anyway.  Therefore negating the whole reason for the division split in the 1st place. 

If you want to get rid of the split I am OK with that.

You do realize that the large school is in a "no win" situation.  If they win then they just beat up a small school, if they loose then they just lost to a small school.  A large school can gain nothing from it except the possible let down of not winning against the small school.  Then they lose the celebration of winning there division.  If the small school loses then nothing lost because they were not suppose to win.

Rules are rules you can't just change them because you want to.

And just to make things clear I am now associated with a small school. 

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

I really wish I could understand your thought process on this.  Allowing those teams to compete might take out some of the big schools which would have qualified anyway.  Therefore negating the whole reason for the division split in the 1st place. 

If you want to get rid of the split I am OK with that.

You do realize that the large school is in a "no win" situation.  If they win then they just beat up a small school, if they loose then they just lost to a small school.  A large school can gain nothing from it except the possible let down of not winning against the small school.  Then they lose the celebration of winning there division.  If the small school loses then nothing lost because they were not suppose to win.

Rules are rules you can't just change them because you want to.

And just to make things clear I am now associated with a small school. 

Completely agree with your take on the situation, would much rather get rid of the split to create a more competitive tournament than just letting small schools float from small school to big school on a year to year basis

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

I really wish I could understand your thought process on this.  Allowing those teams to compete might take out some of the big schools which would have qualified anyway.  Therefore negating the whole reason for the division split in the 1st place. 

If you want to get rid of the split I am OK with that.

You do realize that the large school is in a "no win" situation.  If they win then they just beat up a small school, if they loose then they just lost to a small school.  A large school can gain nothing from it except the possible let down of not winning against the small school.  Then they lose the celebration of winning there division.  If the small school loses then nothing lost because they were not suppose to win.

Rules are rules you can't just change them because you want to.

And just to make things clear I am now associated with a small school. 

My thought process is that Union dominated the small schools last year. They wanted some tough matches to gear up for state and didn't really get it. If Boise State dominates all the teams they play, shouldn't they get a shot at the big schools?

Union can and does, they can and do schedule tougher school or tourneys throughout the year. 

Union can choose to not attend the state duals if they want.  Same as that they can't move to another region if they were in a weak region. 

Ultimately the state duals tournament is just another tournament, it has no bearing on the actual state title. 

I know early on when Conner had a good team they choose not to attend the state duals because they did not want to miss another tournament they were in. 

It's the same reason some teams do not attend the region qualifier for state duals. 

I would be in favor of a kind of compromise.  Allow the small school champion to compete in large school the next year if they want.  I know that would only allow a team like Union to compete in the large school every other year but I would be a fan of that. 

Rules would have to change however, for that to happen. 

2 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Union can and does, they can and do schedule tougher school or tourneys throughout the year. 

Union can choose to not attend the state duals if they want.  Same as that they can't move to another region if they were in a weak region. 

Ultimately the state duals tournament is just another tournament, it has no bearing on the actual state title. 

I’ll tell you now others don’t see it that way.... if that’s what determines the state dual champions it’s it. they are the state duals champion.

Khsaa would benefit from adding duals but they choose not too. I know I’ve asked on multiple accounts. 
 

7 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Small schools have always wrestled the big schools as far as I know none have backed down from a challenge. This year Union, Tilghman and Walton Verona should compete with the best big schools. 

IMO it wouldn't do Walton any good to wrestle big school this year.  They wouldn't get out of the region.  They don't have enough fire power.

1.  Campbell Co

     Ryle

3.  Simon Kenton, Walton

3 hours ago, Chris Duke said:

IMO it wouldn't do Walton any good to wrestle big school this year.  They wouldn't get out of the region.  They don't have enough fire power.

1.  Campbell Co

     Ryle

3.  Simon Kenton, Walton

I mean they should (if healthy) be able to  compete with the big schools, not that they should compete in the division. 

5 hours ago, halfhalfhalf said:

I’ll tell you now others don’t see it that way.... if that’s what determines the state dual champions it’s it. they are the state duals champion.

 

Khsaa would benefit from adding duals but they choose not too. I know I’ve asked on multiple accounts. 
 

 

How would KHSAA benefit?  Unless they have it at the end of the year like they do the individual state (like Ohio) then all that does is take away a weekend or two from all the schools except the 16 who are in the state duals.  Plus I personally think the coaches association does an excellent job hosting the event. 

Maybe it is just me, but i find the team championship both at the state duals and the individual tournament to not be a big deal.  I was part of a state team title (ind. and dual) and found it anticlimactic.  I was much more excited about the individuals who placed and won titles more so than the team title.  Maybe its because there was no dual state tourney when I wrestled in the stone age.  It seems to me over the years that I have been in wrestling that the small schools find the state dual title more important than the big schools. 

I want to make sure my point isn’t being lost GOO. I think what the Ky coaches association does is WONDERFUL. I think my point maybe lost there. It’s what has been done before my time and I have zero problems with it. I’m thankful for it as we have been fortunate enough to qualify for it 4 times and attending 3 (missed once due to snow). 
 

I mean they could benefit from positive pub as they have dropped the ball numerous times in recent memory. Brocks 5 titles, Meyers 4 yr run without a lose in KY and Fahy’s run. But basically be a preview for the state tourney of what could be there. That’s all I’m saying. 

I wouldn’t change anything that’s being done now and honestly I hope Lindsey is able to host duals for the long term future. LWC does a wonderful job and the atmosphere is electric and full of drama you would want. It also helps when you have fans lining the mats where it’s standing room only.  The big gym being under the lights is exactly what is needed for this event.

its been a great debate with you on this topic for sure.  
 

I'm just giving my unwanted opinion.  

It’s just a different point of view. We aren’t that far off. 

Some of us love the team aspect, some don’t. 

Some want the toughest matches right before state, some want to rest. 

In the big scheme of things, it doesn’t matter much. 

6 hours ago, DrBaker said:

 

Some want the toughest matches right before state, some want to rest. 

 

This must be where we differ.  I believe in resting and getting healthy right before state. 

As I look at fat tests and rosters, I see that lots of spots are wide open for state. As always, any input is welcomed. 

I'm confused by this big school, small school thing. We line up shoulder to shoulder and weigh in. You step on the mat with a guy that weighs the same as you do.

You wrestle whomever is put in front of you.  You're in a tournament mid season!! Oh he's from a big school lets forfeit? 

I know the argument will be lots of small schools can't fill out the weight classes. Lot's of big School can't either. 

No matter your school size youre most likely not gonna win state in any division. If you don't have a full line up.

It basically comes down to the idea that some are trying to make wrestling a team sport instead of an individual sport.  It's been my point for years the team really doesn't matter its the individuals you focus on.  I have always been a fan of "this is my lineup, lets wrestle", the bumping and forfeiting drive me nuts.  In a dual I have rarely looked at the team score or moved kids around unless to get rid of two forfeits and give two kids a match who would otherwise get a forfeit, regardless of if I think my kid can win or not. I also only pull a kid if the opponent is greatly superior AND I think my kid may get physically hurt. (which I rarely do)

At best wrestling is a group sport, the individuals give points the the group.  If you coach the individuals up then the group/team will follow. 

This is just my philosophy of wrestling not saying its right or wrong. 

On 11/16/2019 at 10:32 AM, grappler-of-old said:

It basically comes down to the idea that some are trying to make wrestling a team sport instead of an individual sport.  It's been my point for years the team really doesn't matter its the individuals you focus on.  I have always been a fan of "this is my lineup, lets wrestle", the bumping and forfeiting drive me nuts.  In a dual I have rarely looked at the team score or moved kids around unless to get rid of two forfeits and give two kids a match who would otherwise get a forfeit, regardless of if I think my kid can win or not. I also only pull a kid if the opponent is greatly superior AND I think my kid may get physically hurt. (which I rarely do)

At best wrestling is a group sport, the individuals give points the the group.  If you coach the individuals up then the group/team will follow. 

This is just my philosophy of wrestling not saying its right or wrong. 

I completely agree with your philosophy. I would bump or ask the other coach to bump his kid up. Just to get 2 quality kids on the mat together. It's all practice until the state tournament series starts.

I'm updating as fat tests are posted and as results are posted. 

I moved the Tilghman kids around where Ranger has them ranked. I'm sure a lot will change after this weekend. 

Looks like McCracken will have a pretty full team. Tilghman’s fat tests are rolling in. It’s about to be on in Region 1! 

Updated with the results I can see. Current pin leader is Klemmer Nicodemmus with 10. Gonna be an exciting season. 

I keep getting reports of guys being ineligible and some that are hurt. I’ll update rankings after this weekend again and take out the people that haven’t wrestled and add them in as they do. If you think I’m missing people, let me know. 

Looks like you have Jayden Frazier at 120 and 126

1 hour ago, BobcatWrestling said:

Looks like you have Jayden Frazier at 120 and 126

Thanks. Fixed it. 

Who is going to be at Armstrong classic 

2 hours ago, Pusher said:

Who is going to be at Armstrong classic 

Caldwell, Calloway, Christian, Hopkinsville, John Hardin, McCracken, Owensboro, Ohio, Paducah, Trigg, Trinity Whitesville.

What's your opinion on how the Armstrong Classic turned out 

I think it shows how tough our region is. McCracken put together a good team. Ohio County is getting better. Caldwell has some great young wrestlers. 

Well the Christian County tournament is Saturday, any opinions on good matchups?

All of region 1 will be there besides Union. Should be lots of great matchups. Lots of jockeying for regional seedings. Lots of kids dropping weight classes. Be exciting to see where all the kids fall. I’d like to see Rider vs Grant-Hall part 2. Walls vs Wells. See who wants 106. 

152 is shaping up to be tough. Carr and Conner have had some battles. 3-6 can be anyone's. They all keep beating each other. Gonna be a fun regional tourney. 

It's been a couple of weeks since any talk, updates. So does anyone have anything they want to say about good matchups, surprised about outcome???

7 hours ago, Pusher said:

It's been a couple of weeks since any talk, updates. So does anyone have anything they want to say about good matchups, surprised about outcome???

He updates them weekly. Not always a comment, but he does change it up. 

I update 3 or 5 times a week. I think I'll start a new tab for the next one. 

Calloway County Tourney will finalize some regional seeds. Hope to see some head to head matches. 

120 and 113 are gonna be tough this year. We have kids with winning records all the way back to 7th and 8th place. It's gonna be a crazy regional.