Another year another tournament

- compared to last 2 or 3 years, I felt like attendance was up, at least for the finals, just me? Are there any numbers on this?

- union county has to be getting bored..... seriously though when is their ESPN 30 for 30 coming out.

- I really feel like the higher ups are slowly starting to make the tournament a little better, still steps do be taken particularly in the aspect of presentation but I do realize the horse park has limitations..... operantly putting a mat in the middle of the floor is one of them. 

- also, year in and year out I notice the same few teams display absolutely terrible sportsmanship, kids running of the mat knocking things over, mouthing to opponents of they loose, putting opponents in very dangerous locks when they are down late etc. part of the sport? I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.... if you feel like I’m talking about your team then I probably am.

with all that being said, absolutely great wrestling like always, already excited for next year.

Your thoughts?
 

20 minutes ago, Wkywrestler said:

Another year another tournament

- compared to last 2 or 3 years, I felt like attendance was up, at least for the finals, just me? Are there any numbers on this?

- union county has to be getting bored..... seriously though when is their ESPN 30 for 30 coming out.

- I really feel like the higher ups are slowly starting to make the tournament a little better, still steps do be taken particularly in the aspect of presentation but I do realize the horse park has limitations..... operantly putting a mat in the middle of the floor is one of them. 

- also, year in and year out I notice the same few teams display absolutely terrible sportsmanship, kids running of the mat knocking things over, mouthing to opponents of they loose, putting opponents in very dangerous locks when they are down late etc. part of the sport? I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.... if you feel like I’m talking about your team then I probably am.

with all that being said, absolutely great wrestling like always, already excited for next year.

Your thoughts?
 

I’m going to make my post into 2 parts.

first off, My kid made the comment the attendance was higher Friday than last yr in the finals. The finals atmosphere was not what it’s been but still good!! 
 

the mat not in the middle is questionable IF and ONLY if it effected the computers for track.

Sportsmanship was better this yr than years past.

I normally am one who doesn’t say this because I know their job can be difficult but kudos to the officials this year. I overheard of coaches saying how the officiating was much better this year than years past. I found myself thanking a few for letting matches play out I was in. They normally get the crap end but the majority id say was better.

I have been in attendance for some historic team wins what union county did was awesome to see. I do not think we will see a challenger in a long time or if ever. 
 

I don’t recall much if at all very dirty or unsportsmanlike going on at state this year. If you’re going to come on here and make aloof accusations at least be man enough to speak to specifics. Say what team you’re alluding to.

I’m just a dummy from Louisville but I feel like everyone forgets that woodford co. won 5 state championships in a row in all of our life times. Union County is certainly in the Ky Wrestling history books but a lot of people who are older than me act as if what they’re doing has never been done. 

In all seriousness my 2 ultimate takeaways from this years tournament were 1. the state of wrestling in Kentucky is in a good place. And 2. I really worry about what will happen once Spencer Moore graduates... 

This was a trial run for using the cameras and computers at the tables for the mats. That is the reason the mat wasnt moved, the wires were taped down and apparently not long enough to go to center. It will try to be corrected for next year.

I wish they would have just made an announcement to let people know why. 

4 hours ago, 385 said:

I don’t recall much if at all very dirty or unsportsmanlike going on at state this year. If you’re going to come on here and make aloof accusations at least be man enough to speak to specifics. Say what team you’re alluding to.

 

I’m just a dummy from Louisville but I feel like everyone forgets that woodford co. won 5 state championships in a row in all of our life times. Union County is certainly in the Ky Wrestling history books but a lot of people who are older than me act as if what they’re doing has never been done. 

In all seriousness my 2 ultimate takeaways from this years tournament were 1. the state of wrestling in Kentucky is in a good place. And 2. I really worry about what will happen once Spencer Moore graduates... 

Agreed! Woodford had a run. I was alluding to the points scored.

I was sitting with Rusty Sr all day yesterday. He told me Woodford never put more than 2 together at a time. Quite a few of those. Need a fact checker! Curious to know

Page 50 of the program has the answer. Longest Woodford streak seems to be 3.

https://khsaa.org/Publications/Programs/20192020/Wrestling/wrestlingprogram2020.pdf

1 hour ago, coachteater said:

This was a trial run for using the cameras and computers at the tables for the mats. That is the reason the mat wasnt moved, the wires were taped down and apparently not long enough to go to center. It will try to be corrected for next year.

I wish they would have just made an announcement to let people know why. 

Kudos to KY USA wrestling for making this happen!!! I think it was awesome to have it and I overheard a few parents say grandparents got to see their kid wrestle for the first time ever. Thank you Jon Carr 

Just spoke with Rusty Senior, 72,73 and 74 was the three peat for a Woodford! It’s so cool to hang out with a man with such unbelievable knowledge and love for KY Wrestling and more than that Jesus!!!

2 hours ago, coachteater said:

This was a trial run for using the cameras and computers at the tables for the mats. That is the reason the mat wasnt moved, the wires were taped down and apparently not long enough to go to center. It will try to be corrected for next year.

I wish they would have just made an announcement to let people know why. 

Next year, maybe they can put the dashboard up on the Jumbotron instead of a team score list. 

I went Friday and thought attendance was better than in the past. Had to do trackwrestling yesterday. Someone needs to remind the table workers that the mike is hot. A lady overheard in the finals sounded like a blithering idiot. I'll admit that having it on track was really nice plus it is cheaper than a single session pass.

Would be nice to have some small monitors set up around the top for fans. Us old people can’t see the matches on the other side of the arena 

The tournament ran so much smoother with John and Jase Carr and Jason Hale with the track wrestling. I know Ryle high school purchased it and had it on at school Friday at lunch for all the students to cheer on their friends. Also so many friends reached out about watching it on Friday while at work. TRACK was a huge hit this year. Again, thank you to Jon Carr for all he does for this sport. Secondly, I want to say thank you to the Officials this weekend. From the matches I watched and coached, they  allowed the wrestlers to wrestle and continued to keep up a good pace. I don’t remember seeing or hearing of a match decided by a call the official made, instead of what the wrestler did. Competition looked awesome and the finals had some incredible matches. Look forward to the KHSAA preplanning for next years roll up of the mats and moving the main mat to the middle. Hopefully they will embrace the fact that all the coaches wrestlers and fans want to always do what showcases these great athletes and continue to put the student athlete first ahead of what’s easier and quicker. Thank you Kentucky Wrestling for another great year!!

My biggest takeaway is this:

Congrats to Union on breaking the scoring record and setting the # to where IMO I do not think it will ever be broken. 

The state of wrestling in KY is much better than it's been in a while. Competitive matches all the way around and a TON of upsets. Finals had some excitement. Semifinals were awesome.

Stands had more people in it. Jon Carr and company made it happen to where schools were able to watch matches. Came to school today and get told by quite a few people they watched wrestling for the first time because teachers had it pulled up. 

We as a state are improving the quality of wrestling overall. Let's continue to build off of this!

$20 a ticket for entrance fee is too stiff. Families want to bring brother, sister, and maybe grandma and are spending over $100 just to get in and sit around for 8 hours. Some schools let their students attend in support of their wrestling classmate without burning an unexcused day on Friday, but teenagers are loathe to have to spend on gas, $5 parking, $20 ticket and another $20-$25 for food just to support a classmate. Want to increase attendance? Lower entry fees. Prohibiting coolers and charging $7 for a chicken sandwich and $4 for a water is highway robbery too. I can pay it, but many can't. I too though the event was better with the tech this year compared to the previous two, but this feels a lot more like a Cincinatti Reds game than a KHSAA school event.  Just my .02.

just want to apologize to anyone watching on mat 7 Friday, and mat 5 Saturday, I didn’t realize how much you could hear on those mics until i watched one of the matches. so if you heard any choice words i apologize lol 

5 minutes ago, Blockay said:

just want to apologize to anyone watching on mat 7 Friday, and mat 5 Saturday, I didn’t realize how much you could hear on those mics until i watched one of the matches. so if you heard any choice words i apologize lol 

Lol. I had an F bomb go across one match. My kids watching it back at home blew my phone up with "push ups coach" I am pretty sure you're good.

One more thought for the cameras next year, can we set up a "Mat" to be a camera on the medal presentation? Seems like there would be enough time/spare equipment on the second day when going from 8 to 6 mats. Whether Track or a YouTube live stream is used for that part, it would be great. Please don't make it FaceBook as there are some who don't use it, like me

37 minutes ago, Mr. Perfect said:

$20 a ticket for entrance fee is too stiff. Families want to bring brother, sister, and maybe grandma and are spending over $100 just to get in and sit around for 8 hours. Some schools let their students attend in support of their wrestling classmate without burning an unexcused day on Friday, but teenagers are loathe to have to spend on gas, $5 parking, $20 ticket and another $20-$25 for food just to support a classmate. Want to increase attendance? Lower entry fees. Prohibiting coolers and charging $7 for a chicken sandwich and $4 for a water is highway robbery too. I can pay it, but many can't. I too though the event was better with the tech this year compared to the previous two, but this feels a lot more like a Cincinatti Reds game than a KHSAA school event.  Just my .02.

Ticket price is a bit high. I am about to spend 20 dollars total to go to the TN state tournament Saturday after I get a water and food.  

No one says you have to buy food in the arena, give your friends the food to bring in...... I know that happens quite often. But coolers being prohibited... You cannot take a cooler to a reds game can you? I am ok with all of how it's run. Most of it is contracted so no reason to complain about something that cannot be changed. 

This was the first year we didn't wrestle the matches in order by the bout numbers. If we are going to continue to do it this way might want to put mat assignments on the big screen for all to see and tell people. I personally liked the old way of next available but I get it this is the way all trackwrestling is done now.

Just now, panthers said:

This was the first year we didn't wrestle the matches in order by the bout numbers. If we are going to continue to do it this way might want to put mat assignments on the big screen for all to see and tell people. I personally liked the old way of next available but I get it this is the way all trackwrestling is done now.

I thought at first it was a bit confusing but once we got rolling I honestly liked it. I agree the big screen needs to be used. Good to see you as well!! 

1 hour ago, Mr. Perfect said:

$20 a ticket for entrance fee is too stiff. Families want to bring brother, sister, and maybe grandma and are spending over $100 just to get in and sit around for 8 hours. Some schools let their students attend in support of their wrestling classmate without burning an unexcused day on Friday, but teenagers are loathe to have to spend on gas, $5 parking, $20 ticket and another $20-$25 for food just to support a classmate. Want to increase attendance? Lower entry fees. Prohibiting coolers and charging $7 for a chicken sandwich and $4 for a water is highway robbery too. I can pay it, but many can't. I too though the event was better with the tech this year compared to the previous two, but this feels a lot more like a Cincinatti Reds game than a KHSAA school event.  Just my .02.

Agree 110%

Indiana's this Friday and Saturday: "Admission: $10 per session or $20 both days. Children 24 months old and younger admitted free of charge." and its at Bankers Life Fieldhouse.

Turn the Awards Podium Around!!!!

46 minutes ago, Rtrburn76 said:

Agree 110%

Indiana's this Friday and Saturday: "Admission: $10 per session or $20 both days. Children 24 months old and younger admitted free of charge." and its at Bankers Life Fieldhouse.

 

And there will be 40,000 plus in attendance

1 hour ago, panthers said:

This was the first year we didn't wrestle the matches in order by the bout numbers. If we are going to continue to do it this way might want to put mat assignments on the big screen for all to see and tell people. I personally liked the old way of next available but I get it this is the way all trackwrestling is done now.

Trust me, Jon Carr tried to make that happen and some of the KHSAA members were not too happy with that idea. I bet that'll be done next year. 

Just to clarify, when you refer to doing something different next year, do you mean reverting back to the "the next available mat" preference or the posting of mat assignments on the jumbo-tron?  Personally, I'd vote for the Track mat assignments (this year's format) w/ the addition of their projection on the jumbo-tron.  The reason why is some of us liked to move from one side of the arena to the next in order to get a better view of the match.  "Assigning" the mats allowed folks plenty of time to move over to that area.  Additionally, I noticed that the front rows were generally open for the fans of whichever teams might be up on that near mat.  Everyone seems pretty respectful of that courtesy too. 

       The problem with statistics from past events is that KHSAA does not have them.  They only have complete records from 1970 to the present.  I have been trying to tally all the information for over 20 years now.  I have gotten records from coach Sellers (Danville) and Coach Wells (Caldwell County), and some individual teams from several other coaches.  But I am nowhere near complete for the 60's.  I have all of the state champions but not all the placers and almost none of the state qualifiers that did not place in the 1960s. 

If anyone out there has that information or just partial information, I would be grateful to get it.  When (if) I complete the history I will give it to KHSAA.(I gave what I had to Julian Tackett about 10 years ago)

Any coach who would like their individual school state qualifier history I will gladly send it to you.  I think it is important for teams to have this info to promote wrestling at their respective school. 

32 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

       The problem with statistics from past events is that KHSAA does not have them.  They only have complete records from 1970 to the present.  I have been trying to tally all the information for over 20 years now.  I have gotten records from coach Sellers (Danville) and Coach Wells (Caldwell County), and some individual teams from several other coaches.  But I am nowhere near complete for the 60's.  I have all of the state champions but not all the placers and almost none of the state qualifiers that did not place in the 1960s. 

If anyone out there has that information or just partial information, I would be grateful to get it.  When (if) I complete the history I will give it to KHSAA.(I gave what I had to Julian Tackett about 10 years ago)

Any coach who would like their individual school state qualifier history I will gladly send it to you.  I think it is important for teams to have this info to promote wrestling at their respective school. 

 

what years in the 60s do you have? I have I think 67-69. I will have to go through some boxes.

I only have partials of 1964(1st year)-1970

I would be grateful for anything you have during this time. A lot of the time I only have the last name of some of the participants during this time. 

On 2/18/2020 at 1:35 PM, take em to the mat said:

And there will be 40,000 plus in attendance

And if you have never been you are missing out. Your hairs stand on end.

6 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

       The problem with statistics from past events is that KHSAA does not have them.  They only have complete records from 1970 to the present.  I have been trying to tally all the information for over 20 years now.  I have gotten records from coach Sellers (Danville) and Coach Wells (Caldwell County), and some individual teams from several other coaches.  But I am nowhere near complete for the 60's.  I have all of the state champions but not all the placers and almost none of the state qualifiers that did not place in the 1960s. 

If anyone out there has that information or just partial information, I would be grateful to get it.  When (if) I complete the history I will give it to KHSAA.(I gave what I had to Julian Tackett about 10 years ago)

Any coach who would like their individual school state qualifier history I will gladly send it to you.  I think it is important for teams to have this info to promote wrestling at their respective school. 

 

I have started working on compiling that information as well. In addition I have been trying to collect photographs of past champions. I would love to see what you have and know what you are missing so I could better focus my research.  I would also like to find pre 1964 information.  There was wrestling and state tournaments in Kentucky before the KHSAA got involved.

It amazes me just how little the khsaa does for wrestling. They basically let ranger and a few others run the entire sport for them. When ranger steps down, there will be no rankings.

Just now, 385 said:

It amazes me just how little the khsaa does for wrestling. They basically let ranger and a few others run the entire sport for them. When ranger steps down, there will be no rankings.

Rankings will be easier if everyone posted their results each week to Trackwrestling. Rankwrestlers.com does a good job of compiling rankings based on head to head, win percentages, previous years state results, etc. only if each team updates their results. The problem is, you have old outdated tournament formats not ran on track and other teams who choose to "hide" their results until regionals.

17 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I only have partials of 1964(1st year)-1970

I would be grateful for anything you have during this time. A lot of the time I only have the last name of some of the participants during this time. 

Let me see what I have and get with you

10 minutes ago, 385 said:

It amazes me just how little the khsaa does for wrestling. They basically let ranger and a few others run the entire sport for them. When ranger steps down, there will be no rankings.

Outside of the big sports, what the KHSAA does for wrestling is pretty on par with every other non major sport, and in some cases is even more.  Could they do more?  Absolutely.  But the KHSAA is not singling out wrestling as being not important, or treating it like a stepchild.  The KHSAA doesn't do rankings for any sport (outside of football where they do an RPI for playoff purposes).  The rankings you see are all done by outside sources.

38 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Outside of the big sports, what the KHSAA does for wrestling is pretty on par with every other non major sport, and in some cases is even more.  Could they do more?  Absolutely.  But the KHSAA is not singling out wrestling as being not important, or treating it like a stepchild.  The KHSAA doesn't do rankings for any sport (outside of football where they do an RPI for playoff purposes).  The rankings you see are all done by outside sources.

 

Agreed. I think they do a little more for wrestling IMO..... They purchased with KWOA and KYWCA  finals mat which was something we have asked for for how long instead of the one mat which was always a crap shoot which color. Now we have a black mat with the 3 logos. 

KHSAA could do more, but they would have to do more across the board. It takes $$ to do that. 

1 hour ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

The problem is, you have old outdated tournament formats not ran on track and other teams who choose to "hide" their results until regionals.

Why do you find this to be such a travesty?  I personally don't care one way or another. There are several reasons for the 1st. (1) Some schools have shoddy wifi in their gyms (2) extra cost of track (3) Able to run a smooth tourney without track and have to learn a new system. 

As for "hiding their results" Why does it concern anyone? If you do post great if you don't Oh well.  I personally would/will post my results just for that reason "who cares". Coaches have much more important things to think about rather than worry if "Joe Shmoo" knows the results of the Kangaroo Tournament in Mudlick KY. 

1 hour ago, halfhalfhalf said:

Agreed. I think they do a little more for wrestling IMO..... They purchased with KWOA and KYWCA  finals mat which was something we have asked for for how long instead of the one mat which was always a crap shoot which color. Now we have a black mat with the 3 logos. 

 

KHSAA could do more, but they would have to do more across the board. It takes $$ to do that. 

I think many look at what the KHSAA does in comparison to what other states do, which really isn't fair.  Wrestling is far bigger in other states, and it's logical to think that their tournaments are bigger deals, held in bigger, nicer venues.  But if you think it's a "The Khsaa doesn't care about wrestling issue", I encourage you to check out other sports in the state.  The state softball tourney was for years held in a beer league softball complex with temporary fences on fields that didn't fit the sport. Tennis doesn't even have officials at matches....calls are made by players on the honor system.  Any idea where the state golf tournament is held and how to buy tickets?  I agree, the state tourney needs some work.  But it's gotten better every year over the last 7 or so that I've been around.  We would be taken more seriously if we lost the "no one cares about wrestling", "woe is us" attitude that is often displayed.  You cannot compare wrestling with what is done for Basketball or Football.  It's not an apples to apples comparision.

 I think it all depends on how you are looking at things. Personally.....

As a wrestler I didn't care about the pomp and celebration.  Just give me my medal in a back room as long as I know where I placed is all that mattered.  Heck the medals we got back in the stone age were a little bigger than a half dollar.  Not even sure where my state medals are, last time I found them they were in my fish tank. 

As a coach I want to see the kids get a little credit for what they accomplishe. A little fan fair helps the sport get bigger when younger kids see what is in store for them when they reach the higher levels. 

As a parent.  Shoot I wanted the whole dog and pony show I want GOO Jrs to get all the fan fair and notoriety.  Give them medals as big as their head and celebrate with a ticker tape parade. 

Can it get better? YES, but lets not get to greedy to soon.  I still remember my days at Atherton high school wrestling on Friday when school was still in session and Atherton not having a wrestling team.  We moved up when we went to the Dungeon, and probably took a small step back going to Alltech, but we are still going in the right direction again.  Keep the good ideas coming but don't expect huge changes overnight. 

26 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

 I think it all depends on how you are looking at things. Personally.....

As a wrestler I didn't care about the pomp and celebration.  Just give me my medal in a back room as long as I know where I placed is all that mattered.  Heck the medals we got back in the stone age were a little bigger than a half dollar.  Not even sure where my state medals are, last time I found them they were in my fish tank. 

As a coach I want to see the kids get a little credit for what they accomplishe. A little fan fair helps the sport get bigger when younger kids see what is in store for them when they reach the higher levels. 

As a parent.  Shoot I wanted the whole dog and pony show I want GOO Jrs to get all the fan fair and notoriety.  Give them medals as big as their head and celebrate with a ticker tape parade. 

Can it get better? YES, but lets not get to greedy to soon.  I still remember my days at Atherton high school wrestling on Friday when school was still in session and Atherton not having a wrestling team.  We moved up when we went to the Dungeon, and probably took a small step back going to Alltech, but we are still going in the right direction again.  Keep the good ideas coming but don't expect huge changes overnight. 

Good points. I've always felt these things matter way more to the parents than to the participants.  They want all of these things done for the people that care about them the least.  Of course these are the same parents who complain about participation trophies, so who knows.

56 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I think many look at what the KHSAA does in comparison to what other states do, which really isn't fair.  Wrestling is far bigger in other states, and it's logical to think that their tournaments are bigger deals, held in bigger, nicer venues.  But if you think it's a "The Khsaa doesn't care about wrestling issue", I encourage you to check out other sports in the state.  The state softball tourney was for years held in a beer league softball complex with temporary fences on fields that didn't fit the sport. Tennis doesn't even have officials at matches....calls are made by players on the honor system.  Any idea where the state golf tournament is held and how to buy tickets?  I agree, the state tourney needs some work.  But it's gotten better every year over the last 7 or so that I've been around.  We would be taken more seriously if we lost the "no one cares about wrestling", "woe is us" attitude that is often displayed.  You cannot compare wrestling with what is done for Basketball or Football.  It's not an apples to apples comparision.

I am very in tune with what other states do for their state tournaments. I am actually going to another states tournament this weekend. I have seen some of the BS they have done with other sports. Contracts are in play unfortunately regardless if they are good or crap. But it is also not fair to compare what smaller sports do to wrestling either.  

Personally, I don't think the no one cares about wrestling thing comes into play. Yes, we all say it... but at the end of the day KHSAA does this for all sports. I.e. Medals being different from Regions and State. Ribbons and etc.

3 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

Good points. I've always felt these things matter way more to the parents than to the participants.  They want all of these things done for the people that care about them the least.  Of course these are the same parents who complain about participation trophies, so who knows.

I agree with your point in regards to participation awards. However, the parents are the ones that need sold on this sport.  Marketing if you will??? Marketing that will reach others. Just good enough or thats the way we've always done it. Simply isn't good enough.

19 minutes ago, take em to the mat said:

I agree with your point in regards to participation awards. However, the parents are the ones that need sold on this sport.  Marketing if you will??? Marketing that will reach others. Just good enough or thats the way we've always done it. Simply isn't good enough.

I would agree that you need to constantly evolve to keep growing. The “selling” however, needs to happen at the lower levels.  I’d guess most in attendance at State are families and parents that are already sold on wrestling as a sport.  Keeping the old blood is important.  To grow, we need new blood.  And the “khsaa hates wrestling talk” isn’t exactly a great selling point.

58 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I would agree that you need to constantly evolve to keep growing. The “selling” however, needs to happen at the lower levels.  I’d guess most in attendance at State are families and parents that are already sold on wrestling as a sport.  Keeping the old blood is important.  To grow, we need new blood.  And the “khsaa hates wrestling talk” isn’t exactly a great selling point.

That's a valid point. And you are 100% correct. However, I do believe it's a trickle down. Positive experience at all levels. Hard to get a family unfamiliar with wrestling to try it. Word of mouth is a powerful tool. You'd think the KHSAA would love for the sport to increase. They should see those $$$ flashing at any growth potential. 

11 hours ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

Rankings will be easier if everyone posted their results each week to Trackwrestling. Rankwrestlers.com does a good job of compiling rankings based on head to head, win percentages, previous years state results, etc. only if each team updates their results. The problem is, you have old outdated tournament formats not ran on track and other teams who choose to "hide" their results until regionals.

KHSAA needs to make posting results mandatory like they have in football.  It would make preseeding tournaments much easier.

8 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Can it get better? YES, but lets not get to greedy to soon.  I still remember my days at Atherton high school wrestling on Friday when school was still in session and Atherton not having a wrestling team.  We moved up when we went to the Dungeon, and probably took a small step back going to Alltech, but we are still going in the right direction again.  Keep the good ideas coming but don't expect huge changes overnight. 

Alltech was a step forward in terms of growth, but a step back in terms of atmosphere.  Atherton was small potatoes but man was it electric.  Standing room only, packed in like sardines, super loud with the crowd banging and stomping on those wood bleachers.  The civic center took that a step further...it was basically a bowl and it felt like the crowd was right on top of the mats...it was dark and loud...noise makers and glow sticks everywhere...the fan bases were super close to each other and it got rowdy in there...it was dark for the finals with a spotlight on the mat...i saw orange for a week from that old Frankfort High mat...what we've gained in size we've lost in atmosphere

I went to the TN state tournament this weekend and a few takeaways from what they are doing that need to be looked at.

1. When announcing each finals match give them a highlight. I.e. region champ, placed 4th at 120 last year and 2nd in 2018. 

2. Use the video board to highlight the medalist. I have attached an example. 

On 2/20/2020 at 8:23 PM, KWR said:

KHSAA needs to make posting results mandatory like they have in football.  It would make preseeding tournaments much easier.

I'm not 100% up on track but how would this make it easier to pre-seed?  Do you expect the person running the tourney to look up all the criteria? 

I have run several tourneys in my day.  Its easy to pre-seed.  Coaches send roster with records. Pre-seed according to record then go. Get changes when coaches show up adjust, take 20 minutes for coaches meeting then go. 

3 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not 100% up on track but how would this make it easier to pre-seed?  Do you expect the person running the tourney to look up all the criteria? 

spread former medalists out IF they win the region seed. If not randomly drawn in. 

Are you talking region or regular season tourney.  I'm talking about regular season tourney. Hopefully at regular season tourney you have several different regions and a few out of state teams. 

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not 100% up on track but how would this make it easier to pre-seed?  Do you expect the person running the tourney to look up all the criteria? 

I have run several tourneys in my day.  Its easy to pre-seed.  Coaches send roster with records. Pre-seed according to record then go. Get changes when coaches show up adjust, take 20 minutes for coaches meeting then go. 

You have kids that wrestle terrible competition with 35-0, 40-1 records and kids from these other teams that actually challenge themselves out of state against top ranked competition with 4-5+ losses and will get seeded worse than those kids with nearly unblemished records. Darius Moore for example only had two in state losses, both to the state champ. He had several losses out of state and barely cracked the top 15 in rankings, whereas on rankwrestlers.com which uses trackwrestling to create their rankings, he was top 5 almost all season. He was a no-brainer for darkhorse. 

Tournaments ran on track like Mater Dei and Father Ryan's use track information for seeding. The seeds are automatically generated based on criteria points (record, at least so many matches recorded on track, previous years tournament results, previous state results, head to head). There is usually not much to change when the automatic seeds are released.

36 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

You have kids that wrestle terrible competition with 35-0, 40-1 records and kids from these other teams that actually challenge themselves out of state against top ranked competition with 4-5+ losses and will get seeded worse than those kids with nearly unblemished records. Darius Moore for example only had two in state losses, both to the state champ. He had several losses out of state and barely cracked the top 15 in rankings, whereas on rankwrestlers.com which uses trackwrestling to create their rankings, he was top 5 almost all season. He was a no-brainer for darkhorse. 

Tournaments ran on track like Mater Dei and Father Ryan's use track information for seeding. The seeds are automatically generated based on criteria points (record, at least so many matches recorded on track, previous years tournament results, previous state results, head to head). There is usually not much to change when the automatic seeds are released.

Ryan's seeding takes the Trackwrestling % and sometimes it is not accurate. 

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not 100% up on track but how would this make it easier to pre-seed?  Do you expect the person running the tourney to look up all the criteria? 

I have run several tourneys in my day.  Its easy to pre-seed.  Coaches send roster with records. Pre-seed according to record then go.

i've run several tournaments as well, and I have come to realize that coaches are unreliable when It comes to sending seeding information.  Also I hate seeding on record alone, especially when you have kids with seven victories over the same opponent eight weeks into the season.  If results had to be entered into a database then it would be available without relying on coaches....wins, losses, common opponents etc.  You could preseed very quickly and would only have to make adjustments if kids were dropped or added to weight classes.

Just seems to me way to much is put on seeding during the regular season.  The whole season is just a warm up for the post season.  I'm not a big fan of complaining when my kid is not seeded higher than someone that maybe he should be.  Just go out there and beat whoever they put in front of you. Outdo your seed in the tourney and be done with it.  Its just a regular season tourney, the only tourneys that matter are region and state. 

I'm not sure I would be opposed to running regular season tourneys like freestyle tourneys, random draw and go. 

17 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not sure I would be opposed to running regular season tourneys like freestyle tourneys, random draw and go. 

Just talked to Coach Walls. He does have all the state details from 1964 and beyond. Also has some of 63 and 62 seasons. Reach out to him at Dennis Walls on Facebook. 

On 2/24/2020 at 4:44 PM, grappler-of-old said:

Just seems to me way to much is put on seeding during the regular season.  The whole season is just a warm up for the post season.  I'm not a big fan of complaining when my kid is not seeded higher than someone that maybe he should be.  Just go out there and beat whoever they put in front of you. Outdo your seed in the tourney and be done with it.  Its just a regular season tourney, the only tourneys that matter are region and state. 

Well seeded tournaments usually have their best matches in the later rounds.  That's what you want to have exciting tournaments.  Exciting tournaments bring in good teams, lots of fans, and make lots of money.  That's how you build programs and grow the sport.  

I'm all for separating the better wrestlers.  That way the best matches are in the semi and final rounds.  I just don't like trying to get pinpoint accuracy in the seeds.  Argueing about a 2nd or 3rd seed or 3rd of 4th seed is usually random anyway.  No one really knows who is the better wrestler that day.  

You usually just need last years post season placement and if an early tourney (1st 3 weeks) last years record, otherwise this years record, do the best you can and get the thing started.  What is worse is having a coaches meeting that takes 1 hour and delays the tournament.  I know coaches can be unreliable with getting in their records and such but that is usually not that common anymore.  

Getting a track account (an extra cost) for the day making sure wifi is accessible and hoping it doesn't crash is many times to much hassle. I do however like the boutboard if its in a couple of places out of the way of the fans view and big enough to see from far away so wrestlers don't crowd the area. 

But I'm still old school I like a bracket in my hand. I can't see the brackets on a phone, to small and have to move the frame around to see the whole bracket.  (I don't have a smart phone anyway).  

State tourney should 100% be seeded. How is this even an argument? Best 2 kids meeting in the quarters? Adams vs Deck not under the lights in the finals? It needs to be seeded. 

2 hours ago, DrBaker said:

State tourney should 100% be seeded. How is this even an argument? Best 2 kids meeting in the quarters? Adams vs Deck not under the lights in the finals? It needs to be seeded. 

Stuff like that happens EVERY year! 

4 hours ago, pin2win said:

Stuff like that happens EVERY year! 

saying "it's always been that way" is a really poor excuse to not progress.  we can do better.  the sport deserves it, imo.

12 minutes ago, CradleKY said:

 

 

saying "it's always been that way" is a really poor excuse to not progress.  we can do better.  the sport deserves it, imo.

 

 

Yes!!!! The 2nd best guy NOT making the finals happens way too much. 

3 hours ago, CradleKY said:

 

 

saying "it's always been that way" is a really poor excuse to not progress.  we can do better.  the sport deserves it, imo.

 

 

My response wasn’t to justify the random draw, but to give more reasons to why we need to move away from it.

Deck was a #2 from his region.  He would not have been seeded.  Bad argument. Your not going to seed a #2. 

I can't see how you could seed state. You could end up with 1 and 2 from same region wrestling early rounds. They could be the top 2 in state. With true wrestle backs to 3rd I don't think it's bad as is.

13 hours ago, pin2win said:

My response wasn’t to justify the random draw, but to give more reasons to why we need to move away from it.

Sorry man I misunderstood your point.

18 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Deck was a #2 from his region.  He would not have been seeded.  Bad argument. Your not going to seed a #2. 

I wonder if Deck would have wrestled his regional finals match if the state tournament was seeded?

1 hour ago, Zeus said:

I wonder if Deck would have wrestled his regional finals match if the state tournament was seeded?

Not a chance. Deck’s health was the most important thing. Making sure he was rested and ready for the State Tournament. We knew the possibility of catching Adams before finals. We also knew whether we saw Adams early or saw him in the finals, we were going to see him and have to beat him. Adams is one tough customer and definitely brought the fight to Deck. Much respect to him. 

On 2/26/2020 at 9:28 PM, grappler-of-old said:

Deck was a #2 from his region.  He would not have been seeded.  Bad argument. Your not going to seed a #2. 

Deck was #2 from his region because he forfeited the finals.  If you're not seeding on region placement alone he still gets seeded.