So most people agree we are probably not going to see a 32 man state tournament.  That being said, I think it could have a huge impact on who wins the team title at state. Say we go to 16 or God forbid an 8 man bracket, who wins? With region 1 and 6 as deep as they are, I think its a clear disadvantage to teams like Union, Ryle, Christian Co, Paducah Tilghman, and Walton Verona. On the other hand if we see a cut in numbers, I think its going to be  a big advantage to teams like Johnson Central and Trinity.  Region 8 is on the up swing, but Johnson Central is still clearly best. While Trinity is in a tough region, the Jefferson County shut down is going to really hurt the public schools at region. Could be setting up for an interesting race for the title.

Thoughts?

If they go to 16 man by the means of top 2 in a region, it really hurts region 1 and 6? (Northern Ky) and helps 4 and 8. Union, Christian, Tilghman, Caldwell, Campbell, Simon Kenton, Ryle, etc will leave great kids at home and Trinity, St X, and Johnson Central would still bring complete teams. 

Northern ky is 6

Trinity/st x in 4

Johnson  8

Definitely a lot of great kids will be at home

I was just talking about this with my staff. I sure wish they would give us some guidance on how state is gonna work.

There is gonna be a lot of maneuvering going on if they only qualify the top 2 from each Region. I just think of last year in region 2, 1st, 2nd, 4th were all from the same region... One of those kids wasn't gonna qualify to state!!! If we do go to the top 2 qualifying... there needs to be some sort of wrestleback for a true 2nd. 2nd wrestles 3rd to determine who goes to state.

Regions 1 and 6 will sure get the shaft if it comes down to that

Scanning over last years results, if we were to of had 16 man bracket, 10 kids that placed would have been at home. 

6 weights had 3 kids from 1 region place

2 weights had 3 kids from 2 regions place

Another question.  If we go 16 man, top 6 place like back in the day?

8 man place top 4?

I just wish we knew what format we are looking at, instead of not having a answer.

if it's top two, I don't think you have any choice but to wrestle for true 2nd. That how it was done before they changed formats in the 80s. 

I think an option would be to split the state tournament between big school and small school (personally, not a fan). You’d have 16 man brackets that way, as well. Then maybe have a “tournament of champions” (6-8 man bracket) to determine the real state champ. I’m not confident KHSAA has the desire to work out the logistics. 

1 minute ago, GentleBeard said:

I think an option would be to split the state tournament between big school and small school (personally, not a fan). You’d have 16 man brackets that way, as well. Then maybe have a “tournament of champions” (6-8 man bracket) to determine the real state champ. I’m not confident KHSAA has the desire to work out the logistics. 

Agreed, another option would be to split the tourney into two weekends. Weekend 1 half the weight classes, weekend 2 the other half of the weight classes, or a semi state before state. Addition of one weekend would avoid all the issues. 

Ihpo in Indiana had split sessions.  Big brackets staggered start times worked out good.
 In the final session there will be less kids so bring everyone left back together because of wait times between matches.  It can work just takes a little planning.  

9 hours ago, Bearcat said:

Agreed, another option would be to split the tourney into two weekends. Weekend 1 half the weight classes, weekend 2 the other half of the weight classes, or a semi state before state. Addition of one weekend would avoid all the issues. 

That would put a real financial strain on some schools that would have to travel and lodge on two different weekend.

With so many teams barely fielding teams this year, the KHSAA needs to award state spots based on number of teams/participants in the regional tournaments.

In looking at the minutes from BOC meeting from yesterday, https://khsaa.org/01-21-21-board-of-control-reviews-status-of-winter-and-spring-sports/ , I noticed that they limited the number of bowlers from regional competition, but not the State tournament. I realize it's an apples to oranges comparison, but perhaps this bodes well for the 32 man bracket. I guess we'll all find out together on Feb 17. I, for one, am going to stay cautiously optimistic. 

My take from watching and listening to the meeting yesterday was a little different. From what I heard or understood there is no way we will have a 32 man bracket with or without fans. We can either figure a way to do a split of some kind Big School/Small School  so there are two 16 man tourneys or even a East/West split two tourneys they called Covid 1 & 2 or we will be forced to take just top 2 kids from ever region and no alternates. That leaves a lot of kids out. No matter what our personal thoughts are on a Big/Small split. For this year if we want to keep as many kids in the tourney as possible we need to express our thoughts that way because who knows what a east-west or north-south split even would look like. Either way I am glad there was no vote yesterday because I believe if there was it would have been just 2 from each region period. I challenge us all to figure something out that will suit what those guys on the board will approve that we can all live with because at least we are getting a season and would be nice to finish with a great post season. Then next year we can hopefully get back to the norm.

Not a fan of the big/small school split but if the choices are this or top 2 from region I will take small/ big school state tourneys. 

Agreed. I think big school/small school by enrollment makes the most sense. Then possibly KY USA Wrestling could do a "Tournament of Champions" in March or April inviting placers from both big and small school to compete. Even if they divide into Covid 1 (R1-R4) and Covid 2 (R5-8), a Tourney after the season allows all the placers to come together. 

I would much rather see a big/small split 

I am against the big/small school split in most regards. Would like to see it happen though if the only other option is 2 per region. 

After speaking with Mike Barren today, a big/small split is pretty much not an option. 

If there is a big school/small school split, will each state tournament have 32 man brackets? The fact they don’t have a plan and won’t have one until February 17th could set up a logistical nightmare. I wish more people involved with wrestling had a bigger say in how to run it. There are people on the BOC that admitted they’re ignorant to wrestling like I am to archery. Nothing wrong with ignorance, but regulating a sport from a state of ignorance doesn’t seem fruitful.

Do we know what the options are?  

They are sending an email out to coaches tomorrow,  it will have an email address to send suggestions to. They ask that all suggestions are sent there. That way they can all see them and have them organized.  From talking to Barren today, a split will not happen. 

They want to keep the 32 coming out of regions and they want spectators.  They are working on figuring out a format that they can do this. Both of these points were very important. But they also have to find a cost effective way that follows covid restrictions and is feasible for teams that travel.

I’m assuming they’re looking to have a venue with at least 10,000 seats to keep the 15% attendance threshold? 
 

448 wrestlers

896 fans (2 per wrestler)

the remaining population would be tournament workers?

I honestly don't know how they will be able to accomplish all this.  

Maybe do first 7 weight classes in the morning and the rest in the afternoon. 

Do 3 rounds of consolation that will reduce number of participants for second day to 12 per weight class. 

Just spitballing here. 

Just now, grappler-of-old said:

I honestly don't know how they will be able to accomplish all this.  

Maybe do first 7 weight classes in the morning and the rest in the afternoon. 

Do 3 rounds of consolation that will reduce number of participants for second day to 12 per weight class. 

Just spitballing here. 

I made that exact post to someone earlier. If you wrestle to the blood/money rounds first day, that leaves you with 12 kids remaining in each weight class on day two. Morning session 106-145, weigh ins at 7 and wrestle at 8. 2 Rounds of championships and 3 rounds of consi's. Afternoon round can be weighed in that morning at a separate gym for 152-285. Wrestling starts at 3 and ends around 9. 6 hours for each session. Next day there are 168 kids, 336 spectators for the kids, and maybe sprinkle in a few more fans. 

10 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I honestly don't know how they will be able to accomplish all this.  

Maybe do first 7 weight classes in the morning and the rest in the afternoon. 

Do 3 rounds of consolation that will reduce number of participants for second day to 12 per weight class. 

Just spitballing here. 

I think this idea would work. Do you think they would isolate the other half of the wrestlers somewhere? 

Email is out now, here are what they are working with. Volleyball had a semi state this year, could we see that added to wrestling? Then you still have 4 move on past region. A semi state weekend could act as first rounds of state, but be held at 4 schools with  8 man bracket 

Some more spitballing.

Have a semistate.  Then you can take either the top 6 for a 24 man bracket or top 5 for a 20 man bracket.  

I think if the coaches can come up with an idea that can be proposed to KHSAA that is supported by the coaches that might help get what we believe is best.  

Maybe come up with plans A, B, and C. 

1 hour ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

I made that exact post to someone earlier. If you wrestle to the blood/money rounds first day, that leaves you with 12 kids remaining in each weight class on day two. Morning session 106-145, weigh ins at 7 and wrestle at 8. 2 Rounds of championships and 3 rounds of consi's. Afternoon round can be weighed in that morning at a separate gym for 152-285. Wrestling starts at 3 and ends around 9. 6 hours for each session. Next day there are 168 kids, 336 spectators for the kids, and maybe sprinkle in a few more fans. 

That’s still over 500 people in a gym. Our school has a decent sized gym and capacity is limited to a little under 200 people including participants. Large regions and state will likely need to be held over several days, maybe even over two weeks if held in a high school gym because of attendance limits. Since it’s inside, the participants have to be included in the total count. Larger venues just aren’t willing to hold any events right now, so it’s almost certainly going to be in a gym.

Create a semi state.   Top 4 from two regions wrestle for 4 spots.   Match regions up by # of entrants.   Region with the most wrestlers pairs up with the region that has the least competitors.  Host is whatever school has the largest facility.  So if region 1 has the most wrestlers and region 3 has the least (just as an example) then they create one semi state.   Then the 2nd biggest region and the second smallest region wrestle.   So on and so forth.   8 man brackets for semi state to get to a 16 man bracket at state.   The kids still get to be “state qualifiers”.  They still get the opportunity to advance.   Pairing the regions like that isn’t perfect but it seems like a good way of leveling the playing field.   Some kids would have an easier region but then a tougher semi state.    Others would be harder at regions but then face a thinner region at semi state.   
 

just a thought.   I

Just now, LCalum said:

Create a semi state.   Top 4 from two regions wrestle for 4 spots.   Match regions up by # of entrants.   Region with the most wrestlers pairs up with the region that has the least competitors.  Host is whatever school has the largest facility.  So if region 1 has the most wrestlers and region 3 has the least (just as an example) then they create one semi state.   Then the 2nd biggest region and the second smallest region wrestle.   So on and so forth.   8 man brackets for semi state to get to a 16 man bracket at state.   The kids still get to be “state qualifiers”.  They still get the opportunity to advance.   Pairing the regions like that isn’t perfect but it seems like a good way of leveling the playing field.   Some kids would have an easier region but then a tougher semi state.    Others would be harder at regions but then face a thinner region at semi state.   
 

just a thought.   I

 

Semi state would be a 1 day tourney between region and state.   Best kids still make it to state.  You could wrestle a true 4th if you want.   

If this is really only a 1 year thing to get to a stop gap,

couldn’t we use roster size and geographical location to “re-district” (only for the purpose of post season) so that each “district” has 8 man brackets, top 4 go to 1 of 4 regionals (also 8 man bracket) then the top 2 (or 4) go onto state?

4 hours ago, LCalum said:

Create a semi state.   Top 4 from two regions wrestle for 4 spots.   Match regions up by # of entrants.   Region with the most wrestlers pairs up with the region that has the least competitors.  Host is whatever school has the largest facility.  So if region 1 has the most wrestlers and region 3 has the least (just as an example) then they create one semi state.   Then the 2nd biggest region and the second smallest region wrestle.   So on and so forth.   8 man brackets for semi state to get to a 16 man bracket at state.   The kids still get to be “state qualifiers”.  They still get the opportunity to advance.   Pairing the regions like that isn’t perfect but it seems like a good way of leveling the playing field.   Some kids would have an easier region but then a tougher semi state.    Others would be harder at regions but then face a thinner region at semi state.   
 

just a thought.   I

 

Think this could be the route they go, but region 1 would go against 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8 in semi state. 

Top from region go to semi state, top 4 semi state go to state. 

I believe in khsaa eyes, "semi" state is still considered state. 

Volleyball did this as well this year I believe.  In place of normal 16 team state,  the had a 16 team semi state played at high schools. The 8 team state played at high school as well. 

This still qualifies 32 kids to state, which they want. And it will allow for spectators.  

1 hour ago, coachteater said:

Think this could be the route they go, but region 1 would go against 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8 in semi state. 

Top from region go to semi state, top 4 semi state go to state. 

I believe in khsaa eyes, "semi" state is still considered state. 

Volleyball did this as well this year I believe.  In place of normal 16 team state,  the had a 16 team semi state played at high schools. The 8 team state played at high school as well. 

This still qualifies 32 kids to state, which they want. And it will allow for spectators.  

Makes sense. May need to relax 5 match rule to 6 matches allowing for full placement without forfeiting for 16 man in one day. Could still place 8 at state finals. 

I think a lot could be solved if we just found the right venue. Is it absolutely necessary that only 15% capacity is the limit? What’s the rationale between 15% and 25%? If they bumped the attendance allowances it would open the door for more venue options that would be more accommodative at a fraction of the horse park.

I believe the goal is to have a competitive state tournament with the right kids involved. Some regions could have 4 of the top 8 kids in the state, so eliminating half of them from the jump waters it down, in my opinion.

I’m definitely in favor of an additional pound allowance if state is going to be 5 weeks, or later, than normal.
 

If we want to limit participants in the state tournament, maybe Regions 1-4 and 5-8 wrestle with the top 8 qualifying for state. State would be a 16 man bracket. 

I hope we don’t create an unnecessary mess, especially waiting this far in the season.

11 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

I think a lot could be solved if we just found the right venue. Is it absolutely necessary that only 15% capacity is the limit? What’s the rationale between 15% and 25%? If they bumped the attendance allowances it would open the door for more venue options that would be more accommodative at a fraction of the horse park.

I believe the goal is to have a competitive state tournament with the right kids involved. Some regions could have 4 of the top 8 kids in the state, so eliminating half of them from the jump waters it down, in my opinion.

I’m definitely in favor of an additional pound allowance if state is going to be 5 weeks, or later, than normal.
 

If we want to limit participants in the state tournament, maybe Regions 1-4 and 5-8 wrestle with the top 8 qualifying for state. State would be a 16 man bracket. 

I hope we don’t create an unnecessary mess, especially waiting this far in the season.

That would make the regional tournament way to big.  

Have regions normally. semi state can be regions 1-4 and 5-8. 16 man brackets at semi state (4 from each region). Top 8 go to state. 

My comments to this idea is 

1. Can we find 2 venues for 2 days to hold the semi-states?

2. If we are going to use 2 weekends why not just have state on 2 consecutive weekends at one venue with light weights on day 1 heavy weights on day 2. 2nd weekend can run as normal in one day. 

That leads to another idea. State would could be 3 days.  Day 1 light weight (3 rounds of Championship) (4 rounds of Conso) Day 2 heavy weights (Same as day 1)

That leaves 8 wrestlers in each wt. class for the last day. (If you make it to day 3 you are a placer.) Only 4 rounds on the last day. 

Rd 1 Champ. Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 2 Consolation quarters (28 matches)

Rd 3 Consolation Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 4-A  Consolation placement round (42 matches)

Rd 4-B Finals. (14 matches)

25 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

My comments to this idea is 

1. Can we find 2 venues for 2 days to hold the semi-states?

2. If we are going to use 2 weekends why not just have state on 2 consecutive weekends at one venue with light weights on day 1 heavy weights on day 2. 2nd weekend can run as normal in one day. 

That leads to another idea. State would could be 3 days.  Day 1 light weight (3 rounds of Championship) (4 rounds of Conso) Day 2 heavy weights (Same as day 1)

That leaves 8 wrestlers in each wt. class for the last day. (If you make it to day 3 you are a placer.) Only 4 rounds on the last day. 

Rd 1 Champ. Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 2 Consolation quarters (28 matches)

Rd 3 Consolation Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 4-A  Consolation placement round (42 matches)

Rd 4-B Finals. (14 matches)

That’s a great idea. I could go for three days of awesome wrestling. 

I don’t see them letting it be 3 days but I like that thought. If not though the one before that with regions 1-4 and 5-8 (4 from each region) I like also but I would take top 16 not top 8 to make a 16 man at one day tourneys. 

22 hours ago, Bearcat said:

Makes sense. May need to relax 5 match rule to 6 matches allowing for full placement without forfeiting for 16 man in one day. Could still place 8 at state finals. 

Suspending the 5 match rule would certainly help with the regional tournaments as well.  They could all be one day tournaments.  The KHSAA has dropped the ball with our post season.  I know we aren't a revenue sport for them, but they could at least pretend like they are putting some effort and forethought into it.  I know the regions are going to be realigned next year, but they should have realigned them this year and split them into districts.  20 teams at a regional tournament in a high school gym for two days during a pandemic is not a good idea.

1 hour ago, Coach Burton said:

Suspending the 5 match rule would certainly help with the regional tournaments as well.  They could all be one day tournaments.  The KHSAA has dropped the ball with our post season.  I know we aren't a revenue sport for them, but they could at least pretend like they are putting some effort and forethought into it.  I know the regions are going to be realigned next year, but they should have realigned them this year and split them into districts.  20 teams at a regional tournament in a high school gym for two days during a pandemic is not a good idea.

Actually we are a HUGE revenue generator for them. Behind basketball tournaments,  we are probably the biggest money maker. Wrestling state is a great money maker and they definitely are trying to figure a way to get as many people there as possible,  cause makes them money

I got a message from a wrestling parent who’s kid is very very highly ranked. “Make the semi states with two regions. Only 8 man brackets then the top 4 advance to state for 16 man brackets. Even region 7/8 combined would only have 8 man brackets so the large regional numbers wouldn’t matter when it came to semi state. Bring the best of the best to state.”

I agree with this sentiment. Since we are taking steps for special changes to make state happen during this pandemic. I see this as a logical step to take that can easily be made. Now finding a venue for state, I don’t have even the slightest clue. 

4 hours ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

I got a message from a wrestling parent who’s kid is very very highly ranked. “Make the semi states with two regions. Only 8 man brackets then the top 4 advance to state for 16 man brackets. Even region 7/8 combined would only have 8 man brackets so the large regional numbers wouldn’t matter when it came to semi state. Bring the best of the best to state.”

I agree with this sentiment. Since we are taking steps for special changes to make state happen during this pandemic. I see this as a logical step to take that can easily be made. Now finding a venue for state, I don’t have even the slightest clue. 

This is fairly simple. Regional events held as normal. Top 4 from each region move to a district tournament. 2 regions per district 1vs.2 and so on. This makes an 8 man bracket per weight class per district, with 4 districts advancing top 4 to state for a 16 man bracket at State tournament. This doesn't get 32 wrestlers per weight class to the state tournament.  But it does come very close to getting the correct 16 to the State tournament. With restrictions being what they are, 32 is not a realistic accomplishment. This adds 1 weekend to post season that is much more manageable. Just my 2 cents.

20 minutes ago, CoachC said:

This is fairly simple. Regional events held as normal. Top 4 from each region move to a district tournament. 2 regions per district 1vs.2 and so on. This makes an 8 man bracket per weight class per district, with 4 districts advancing top 4 to state for a 16 man bracket at State tournament. This doesn't get 32 wrestlers per weight class to the state tournament.  But it does come very close to getting the correct 16 to the State tournament. With restrictions being what they are, 32 is not a realistic accomplishment. This adds 1 weekend to post season that is much more manageable. Just my 2 cents.

Think this is what may happen, but it will be called semi state.  "Semi state" to khsaa is considered "state" , so 32 qualify 

My take...

All the posts so far are about format which is definitely good.  Ultimately the biggest discussion on here should be venue, since Horse Park is out.  That will drive everything else (number of wrestlers, spectators, travel, etc).

Also, the KHSAA will likely not want to add any more weeks to the season, especially for wrestling post season, since there is overlap for winter sports to the spring sports.  The focus will be about the basketball post season. 

Since the next BOD meeting in mid-February will set the wrestling post season format, they will want to keep the format as normal as possible but with reduced numbers of participants so it can be completed.  Unfortunately, that will mean some stud wrestlers around the state miss out on an opportunity to earn/become State champ, but then the regional and semi-state rounds become more exciting.

Again this is one person's opinion.

47 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

My take...

All the posts so far are about format which is definitely good.  Ultimately the biggest discussion on here should be venue, since Horse Park is out.  That will drive everything else (number of wrestlers, spectators, travel, etc).

Also, the KHSAA will likely not want to add any more weeks to the season, especially for wrestling post season, since there is overlap for winter sports to the spring sports.  The focus will be about the basketball post season. 

Since the next BOD meeting in mid-February will set the wrestling post season format, they will want to keep the format as normal as possible but with reduced numbers of participants so it can be completed.  Unfortunately, that will mean some stud wrestlers around the state miss out on an opportunity to earn/become State champ, but then the regional and semi-state rounds become more exciting.

Again this is one person's opinion.

Host regionals a week earlier then or even during the week and then semi state on the original weekend of regionals. Most regionals are a one day affair (not all).

What about Corbin Civic Center? Or the arena the middle school state tournament used last year? I bet they could get good deals on those venues without really changing the format of qualifying for state. 
 

I realize it’s not ideal, but nothing is this year.

1 hour ago, GentleBeard said:

What about Corbin Civic Center? Or the arena the middle school state tournament used last year? I bet they could get good deals on those venues without really changing the format of qualifying for state. 
 

I realize it’s not ideal, but nothing is this year.

Its my understanding that no big arena like that will work because of what they charge and only being able to have 15% attendance.  The math just doesnt work, they will lose money 

37 minutes ago, coachteater said:

Its my understanding that no big arena like that will work because of what they charge and only being able to have 15% attendance.  The math just doesnt work, they will lose money 

They’re probably going to lose money anyway if they can only fill an arena to 15% capacity. It’s either 10,000 seat arena for 32 man bracket or a 5,000 seat arena for 16 man bracket. Have they tried to negotiate, or increase the fan capacity? What places are they looking at?

It was my understanding that the Appalachian wireless arena was donated to Middle School State last year is this a possibility for high school. I thought it was a pretty nice venue with nice hotels with in walking distance

1 hour ago, GentleBeard said:

They’re probably going to lose money anyway if they can only fill an arena to 15% capacity. It’s either 10,000 seat arena for 32 man bracket or a 5,000 seat arena for 16 man bracket. Have they tried to negotiate, or increase the fan capacity? What places are they looking at?

Say you have 16 man in a gym, 224 kids . You can do 2 fans per kid, 448. 448 x $30 (ticket) is $13,000. Plus money on concession im sure they will make and apparel.  That will definitely make enough money to cover gym rental at a high school,  refs, trainers, and still make money. 

And yes, they are negotiating to have wrestlers not counted towards the limit. That would give 600 fans and even more revenue.  A lot of this was talked about in the board meeting.  Its on YouTube if you couldnt watch that day. I think they are looking at it being at a high school. Clark co is a new nice gym and i believe they can get it free. That is where they held volleyball state

37 minutes ago, coachteater said:

. I think they are looking at it being at a high school. Clark co is a new nice gym and i believe they can get it free. That is where they held volleyball state

How wonderful just like the good ole days when it was held at Atherton High school when Atherton did not have a wrestling team either. 

11 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

How wonderful just like the good ole days when it was held at Atherton High school when Atherton did not have a wrestling team either. 

Yes, and kids in school while the event is going on. Although I guess there is a good chance that would be an NTI day at this point. 

If the Appalachian Wireless Arena is donated like last year, by example,  regional tournaments could be hosted on March 13th and state could be on March 27th.  This gives 2 weeks between state duals (if we have them) and the region tournament; and 2 weeks between the region tournaments and state.  My family in Oklahoma said the OSSAA did something similar to help those kids who qualified for state be able to compete in the state tournament while mitigating risks. This would be simple enough to do if you just preponed regionals to March 13th. If we do semi-state, of which I'm not opposed, what dates are being proposed and how will risk be mitigated to ensure those that qualify for state will be able to compete?  If you have a semi-state tournament and a team catches the sickness, how many people would be affected?  

If we had a semi-state, I would assume the schedule would be:

February 27th - State Duals

March 6th - Girls State and Middle School State

March 13th - Regionals

March 20th - Semi-State

March 27th - State

From the KHSAA perspective (not mine), it seems like they would not want to do this as it would add risks, not mitigate them.

Without a semi-state, I would assume the schedule would be:

February 27th - State Duals

March 6th - Girls State and Middle School State

March 13th - Regionals

March 27th - State

448 athletes = 32 man bracket

2 spectators per wrestler

The numbers would work for an arena rather than a high school, especially if wrestlers will not be counted towards the 15% capacity. I'm not opposed to having a semi-state, but I think it could add more risks rather than mitigate them this year only because we are waiting so long into the season to figure it out.  We really should review the qualification process in the future.  It definitely needs an overhaul.

2 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Yes, and kids in school while the event is going on. Although I guess there is a good chance that would be an NTI day at this point. 

Yes. Nothing says "state champ" like a 4th period bell ringing in the middle of the match.

What are the limiting factors? Is it people, a percentage, time? Seems like a regular old 2 day tourney with fewer fans could easily happen. Maybe even run 2 gyms like state duals at Lindsey Wilson. 

36 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

If the Appalachian Wireless Arena is donated like last year,

 

 

The big problem here would be the 6-7 hour drive that Western Ky would have going to the arena. 

24 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

The big problem here would be the 6-7 hour drive that Western Ky would have going to the arena. 

If it is for one year and if it helps accommodate all 4 regional qualifiers, I don’t think think region 1 would care much with the region being that tough. 

12 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

If it is for one year and if it helps accommodate all 4 regional qualifiers, I don’t think think region 1 would care much with the region being that tough. 

We'd drive 15 hours if it meant we could compete...

2 hours ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

If it is for one year and if it helps accommodate all 4 regional qualifiers, I don’t think think region 1 would care much with the region being that tough. 

I was pointing this out because this may cause KHSAA to balk at this idea. I think that region 1 would have to be ok with it for KHSAA to consider this option. 

I think if KHSAA is willing to not have the state tournament centrally located that WK and NK may have some options also. 

2 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I was pointing this out because this may cause KHSAA to balk at this idea. I think that region 1 would have to be ok with it for KHSAA to consider this option. 

I think if KHSAA is willing to not have the state tournament centrally located that WK and NK may have some options also. 

We complained when middle school was there. It was a haul, but not really a big deal. The place is very nice and the hotels are right there. We parked the van and walked all weekend. 

Even if it was free, I dont think khsaa would go because they want to be within driving distance of Lexington.  In the meeting they said they would not being staying overnite and that the khsaa members need to plan to commute. 

48 minutes ago, coachteater said:

Even if it was free, I dont think khsaa would go because they want to be within driving distance of Lexington.  In the meeting they said they would not being staying overnite and that the khsaa members need to plan to commute. 

If region 1 and 2 teams are willing to make that drive, maybe KHSAA could make a sacrifice for a night. It might not be a bad thing to be open minded. There’s a lot of good input on this thread. I’m afraid this post season is setting up to be a logistical nightmare when in reality the only issue that’s needed is an appropriate venue that some have already suggested. 

19 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

If region 1 and 2 teams are willing to make that drive, maybe KHSAA could make a sacrifice for a night. It might not be a bad thing to be open minded. There’s a lot of good input on this thread. I’m afraid this post season is setting up to be a logistical nightmare when in reality the only issue that’s needed is an appropriate venue that some have already suggested. 

Suggesting the venue is the easy part. Getting the venue is what is going to possibly be difficult. I don’t know what the status of that particular venue is, but many large venues simply aren’t hosting any events. Some of it is by choice, some is because local regulations aren’t allowing them to host large events. We are in an unprecedented time, and solutions simply won’t come quickly or easily, and what seems like it will work one day, might not be a solution down the road as things change.

4 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Suggesting the venue is the easy part. Getting the venue is what is going to possibly be difficult. I don’t know what the status of that particular venue is, but many large venues simply aren’t hosting any events. Some of it is by choice, some is because local regulations aren’t allowing them to host large events. We are in an unprecedented time, and solutions simply won’t come quickly or easily, and what seems like it will work one day, might not be a solution down the road as things change.

That’s why I suggested a location that has a history of working with wrestlers in an area where local restrictions might not be as stringent as other places. I honestly don’t care where it’s held - far east, far west, or Butte, Montana - we will travel. Any and all options should be on the table at this point, IMO. What other locations are there? Has anyone reached out?

Appalachian wireless arena l Believe is already hosting middle school state march 6, so they are an open venue.  l honestly have no idea if they have March 27 open or not. I will say its a much better venue then the horse park as long as you don’t mind the drive, which l’m pretty sure the way region 1 is used to competing they won’t. If you can get it Donated or discounted you can probably take some of that money saved and set the KHSAAA members  up in the hotels. (They even have a Hilton) Just trying to throw some ideas out to make it a great tournament 

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IMO KHSAA will want the venue for State to be centrally located regardless of availability of Appalachian Wireless or anywhere in Northern KY or even in Louisville.  Biggest reason = money, of which they don't have as much nor want to spend as much to rent for a weekend.   Since the Horse Park is out, and with the likely restrictions on attendance from covid, any chance a college in the Lexington or nearby area (Transy, Georgetown, etc) would allow KHSAA to host the State tourney??

18 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

IMO KHSAA will want the venue for State to be centrally located regardless of availability of Appalachian Wireless or anywhere in Northern KY or even in Louisville.  Biggest reason = money, of which they don't have as much nor want to spend as much to rent for a weekend.   Since the Horse Park is out, and with the likely restrictions on attendance from covid, any chance a college in the Lexington or nearby area (Transy, Georgetown, etc) would allow KHSAA to host the State tourney??

Another reason for a location to be centrally located is that many school districts have restrictions on travel distance and/or aren't allowing overnight stays for athletic teams,

Just for thought, capacity is based on local county health department recommendations. The Appalachian Wireless center was essentially donated for the middle school and youth tournaments last season as well as this current season. The capacity for the arena during covid has been set at just over 7000.  

1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

Another reason for a location to be centrally located is that many school districts have restrictions on travel distance and/or aren't allowing overnight stays for athletic teams,

Regardless of a 16 or 32 man bracket the state tourney will be 2 nights.  Teams will have to travel regardless and most will have to spend the night.  I would believe that there would be an exception for a state tourney, otherwise some teams will still not be able to participate. 

The other issue is finding/getting a hotel. KHSAA is going to wait until the last minute to make a decision and every team that has to travel is going to fill up hotels, if they can even get one or even have enough hotels in those areas depending on where these sites will be.

I think as coaches we need figure a good plan together and everyone send in the same email. If not the KHSAA will be over loaded with to much data to go through and just figure out what they want to do. And I believe that would leave us with a 16 man tourney ran in a high school in Lexington like a Frederick Douglass or something. Nothing against that school or any school but it’s not an arena nor a 32 man tourney. Regardless of where it’s at if there is an arena that a can host what we want. Then if someone near there or who has contact with these locations needs to do just that see if available to host. So we have all the correct info and then as many that will send a uniform message out to KHSAA. Just my thoughts on this.   

Some information to be aware of, for some of the thoughts shared here   (ie:   just a heads up in case it 'goes this way' )

1. Regarding the Appalachian Wireless Center (?)  (where the Middle School State was held):  They allowed ZERO outside food or drink, nadda .. and were very, very ,very firm regarding that situation. 

2. Regarding the reference to State Volleyball this season:  There was zero 're-admission'  in the same session allowed.  (by this i mean you could not go in, then out to the car, then back in)  Each session was required to be purchased electronically, through a 3rd party service (ie: there was no 'ticket booth' manned at the location)  , each volleyball match was a separate admission, with a separate cost, and that cost this year was considerably higher than in past years.  Not that it will reflect for wrestling, but even the State Tournament volleyball players and their coaches had to pay the cost of admission for the matches for which that were not a participant.

Is there any chance the KHSAA could get Memorial Coliseum?  It would work for a 16 man tournament of four mats.  They could bump the 5 match rule to 6 matches for one tournament and have it on one day.   I think they should extend the season by 2 weeks, add a district tournament and a semi-state tournament to make all the post season tournaments smaller one day events.  They should also suspend the 5 match rule for the post season so there are no 2 day post season tournaments.

20 hours ago, grimmnar said:

Some information to be aware of, for some of the thoughts shared here   (ie:   just a heads up in case it 'goes this way' )

1. Regarding the Appalachian Wireless Center (?)  (where the Middle School State was held):  They allowed ZERO outside food or drink, nadda .. and were very, very ,very firm regarding that situation. 

2. Regarding the reference to State Volleyball this season:  There was zero 're-admission'  in the same session allowed.  (by this i mean you could not go in, then out to the car, then back in)  Each session was required to be purchased electronically, through a 3rd party service (ie: there was no 'ticket booth' manned at the location)  , each volleyball match was a separate admission, with a separate cost, and that cost this year was considerably higher than in past years.  Not that it will reflect for wrestling, but even the State Tournament volleyball players and their coaches had to pay the cost of admission for the matches for which that were not a participant.

 

This is going to be the policy for any larger arena. Large arenas subcontract the food service through outside organizations. Outside food hasn't ever been allowed in the Horsepark that I'm aware of, so this really isn't a big issue.

In the last meeting Tackett suggested pushing our post-season in hopes that restrictions would not be so harsh.  Other states are doing this(OK & MO off the top of my head) and he seemed to be on board with the idea.  The following plan mirrors what MO is doing. If we keep our Region Tournament on March 20th, add a Semi-State on April 3rd, and have our State Tournament on April 17th venues will likely be at higher capacity, which would solve many of the problems we are facing. Again, Tackett suggested this, so I think getting a plan together that is similar will only benefit us when they make a decision. 

1 hour ago, GooglyMoogly said:

In the last meeting Tackett suggested pushing our post-season in hopes that restrictions would not be so harsh.  Other states are doing this(OK & MO off the top of my head) and he seemed to be on board with the idea.  The following plan mirrors what MO is doing. If we keep our Region Tournament on March 20th, add a Semi-State on April 3rd, and have our State Tournament on April 17th venues will likely be at higher capacity, which would solve many of the problems we are facing. Again, Tackett suggested this, so I think getting a plan together that is similar will only benefit us when they make a decision. 

That would suck for those trying to hold their weight that long. Semi state would be held on Easter weekend, and state after spring break? You could keep things normal this year, move regionals to March 13th, and state on March 27th. If wrestlers aren’t part of the 15% capacity limit, you can find an accommodating venue(s).

7 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

That would suck for those trying to hold their weight that long. Semi state would be held on Easter weekend, and state after spring break? You could keep things normal this year, move regionals to March 13th, and state on March 27th. If wrestlers aren’t part of the 15% capacity limit, you can find an accommodating venue(s).

You mean wrestlers would have to stay disciplined with their diet for a few more weeks? I don't see an issue.  And we don't wrestle on Sunday so I'm not sure why Easter is a conflict...

just allow 3 more pounds

IMO the wrestling post season will not get pushed out further.  As I posted earlier, the wrestling post season is all predicated on securing a venue, very likely centrally located in the Lexington area.  Also, KHSAA will want non-basketball winter sports completed so there is as little overlap as possible with spring sports.  The first weekend of baseball games is 3/26-3/28 so I suspect wrestling will be done by then.  KHSAA will also not want any attention taken away from basketball postseason either.  There's a reason they kicked that discussion to the mid February meeting.

4 hours ago, GooglyMoogly said:

You mean wrestlers would have to stay disciplined with their diet for a few more weeks? I don't see an issue.  And we don't wrestle on Sunday so I'm not sure why Easter is a conflict...

Kids grow regardless of how disciplined they are. After all, they’re kids, not adults.

So as the date for the suggestions to KHSAA nears I haven’t seen any kind of agreement on what message the coaches will send. I think that’s a huge mistake on our part. Not sure how or what type of agreement should be made but without one voice it could be something nobody wants. That’s just my two since.

18 hours ago, CradleKY said:

just allow 3 more pounds

It was suggested in the meeting by Tackett that there would be an additional weight allowance if the post season was pushed.