Topic ID: 15865 | 32 Posts
Below is the link if you would like to sign or share the petition to ask the KHSAA to allow a true 2nd place match at semi state. If you have questions or suggestion about it let me know. I anticipate leaving it up for a week or 2 and then the proposal and all signatures will get sent to the KHSAA.
Coach Elliott Bauer - Saint Xavier
502-649-7931
Can we please do the same petition for a 16 man bracket at state? That would solve 98% of the frustration on this message board. What was shared from the BoC from Thursday said it was proposed so perhaps there is an opportunity to advocate? I know there are teams willing to run a 16 man so it's not an additional effort on behalf of the Board.
A 16 man bracket would be preferable but in my opinion the KHSAA has already passed judgement on those larger tournament options. I doubt there is anything we can do to make them change something on that scale. The true second petition is a tiny change they can make in their current format.
If someone wants to throw the 16 man bracket on a petition I’d gladly sign and advocate for it, but I think it’s a snowballs chance in hell of actually happening.
UPDATE
I want to thank everyone that’s taken the time to sign and share the petition. In the first 24 hours we’ve got over 1000 signatures! If you haven’t signed and shared it yet please consider doing so.
17 hours ago, CoachBauer said:A 16 man bracket would be preferable but in my opinion the KHSAA has already passed judgement on those larger tournament options. I doubt there is anything we can do to make them change something on that scale. The true second petition is a tiny change they can make in their current format.
If someone wants to throw the 16 man bracket on a petition I’d gladly sign and advocate for it, but I think it’s a snowballs chance in hell of actually happening.
I would agree. In the COVID environment, you just can’t justify a full 16 man tourney. Whether you believe it’s safe, or not, the KHSAA and the BOE will always err on the side of caution. And they are doing these sorts of things across the board. Every sport has had complaints and less than ideal situations imposed on them since the pandemic began. Wrestling is far from being alone, and contrary to what many seem to believe, is not being targeted or singled out.
18 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:I would agree. In the COVID environment, you just can’t justify a full 16 man tourney.
How big do you think some region brackets are going to be?
19 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:How big do you think some region brackets are going to be?
A couple regions will be close to 16.
Region 2 has 21 teams in it. Granted alot of teams aren't full line ups but you are going to see a lot of fuller 16-man brackets with the possibility of 1 or 2 going over.
31 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:How big do you think some region brackets are going to be?
Some will be close, some won’t. I don’t think any region is full 16 across every weight class. Region 6 for examples, is one of the larger regions, and it won’t have more than 12 or 13 in any one bracket. There won’t be spectators at that region, and no team will have to travel and stay overnight. That somewhat mitigates the concerns of gathering a large group together.
7 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:Some will be close, some won’t. I don’t think any region is full 16 across every weight class. Region 6 for examples, is one of the larger regions, and it won’t have more than 12 or 13 in any one bracket. There won’t be spectators at that region, and no team will have to travel and stay overnight. That somewhat mitigates the concerns of gathering a large group together.
I could be wrong, but I don't think the KHSAA's concerns over travel, overnight stays, and cost are regarding the parents, coaches, and athletes. The KHSAA doesn't want to travel. The KHSAA doesn't want to spend money. The KHSAA doesn't want to stay overnight. The coaches, athletes, and parents do all that.
46 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:Some will be close, some won’t. I don’t think any region is full 16 across every weight class. Region 6 for examples, is one of the larger regions, and it won’t have more than 12 or 13 in any one bracket. There won’t be spectators at that region, and no team will have to travel and stay overnight. That somewhat mitigates the concerns of gathering a large group together.
Region 7 is the biggest region by an average of around 30 wrestlers, we typically have 175 entered. We have several 14 and 15 man each year. Hopefully realignment next year will fix some of this
53 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:I could be wrong, but I don't think the KHSAA's concerns over travel, overnight stays, and cost are regarding the parents, coaches, and athletes. The KHSAA doesn't want to travel. The KHSAA doesn't want to spend money. The KHSAA doesn't want to stay overnight. The coaches, athletes, and parents do all that.
I can’t say for sure the KHSAA has made the decision that they don’t want to travel and stay over overnight. My guess is that is the directive they’ve been given by the BOE/state government. I get that all those (or at least many of those directly involved) are willing to take the risk. That doesn’t mean every one is willing to, or that the KHSAA/BOE should ignore the potential liability that is present whenever large groups of people gather during a pandemic. Most governments/areas are asking folks to limit their travel. Because of that most organizations/companies are erring on the side of caution and not doing any unnecessary travel,and frankly that’s to be expected.
As far as money concerns, those are real. I’m involved in 3 different sports, and I know what lack of attendance and fundraising have done to those budgets. They are running on fumes. Think about it....the KHSAA that lost the basketball Sweet 16, all the spring sports, and had limited attendance for the fall sports, and will be limited for all the winter sports. They’ve literally lost millions of dollars of revenue over the last year. Their budgets have to stretched very thin, and it’s not crazy to think that overnight stays aren’t in the budget this year.
19 minutes ago, coachteater said:Region 7 is the biggest region by an average of around 30 wrestlers, we typically have 175 entered. We have several 14 and 15 man each year. Hopefully realignment next year will fix some of this
It’s also the biggest in terms of area as well, correct. And in turn, some teams may do overnight stays.
1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:It’s also the biggest in terms of area as well, correct. And in turn, some teams may do overnight stays.
Not sure area, only because with Harrison co in region 8, they could potentially travel 3 hours to a region school, but yes, very big. During our 2 day regions many teams have to stay overnight each year.
West Virginia got permission from NFHS to allow a wrestler to wrestle 6 matches in a day to allow for 16 man brackets. Did the KHSAA request that? If not they should. Only takes a small amount of effort to make things right by the athletes that are competing. This would also allow for states to be 16 man brackets accomished in one day.
16 x 14 = 224 split session is 112 per session.
2 tickets each wrestler is 224 plus 112 for athletes. 336.
6 mats , 2 referees each mat is 12. 348 people.
If ran on track you only need 1 person at each mat for the computer and one tapper. That is another 12.
I am at 360 people in the venue at one time. Table workers can come from parents, the would volunteer which reduces number further.
Or do it all at one session and you are only at 720 people. Surely a venue can handle 720 people with fans sitting in pods. And teams limited to team areas. The head table only needs one person to run the tournament. Medical staff of 6 at 1 per mat. KHSAA rep, we only need 1 there not the entire staff.
Finals can be live streamed and I would volunteer to do that for free to make this happen.
I don't understand why this could not have been an option.
Is there really no venue available that can hold 730 people and do the 16 man brackets? One day with a 6 match rule. Finals live streamed.
2 minutes ago, J.W. said:West Virginia got permission from NFHS to allow a wrestler to wrestle 6 matches in a day to allow for 16 man brackets. Did the KHSAA request that? If not they should. Only takes a small amount of effort to make things right by the athletes that are competing. This would also allow for states to be 16 man brackets accomished in one day.
16 x 14 = 224 split session is 112 per session.
2 tickets each wrestler is 224 plus 112 for athletes. 336.
6 mats , 2 referees each mat is 12. 348 people.
If ran on track you only need 1 person at each mat for the computer and one tapper. That is another 12.
I am at 360 people in the venue at one time. Table workers can come from parents, the would volunteer which reduces number further.
Or do it all at one session and you are only at 720 people. Surely a venue can handle 720 people with fans sitting in pods. And teams limited to team areas. The head table only needs one person to run the tournament. Medical staff of 6 at 1 per mat. KHSAA rep, we only need 1 there not the entire staff.
Finals can be live streamed and I would volunteer to do that for free to make this happen.
I don't understand why this could not have been an option.
Is there really no venue available that can hold 730 people and do the 16 man brackets? One day with a 6 match rule. Finals live streamed.
With current Covid attendance limits, there are likely less than a handful of gyms (if any)that will accommodate 700+ people. larger venues will be cost prohibitive, or unwilling to host an largish event. The attendance requirements that are being mandated are very restrictive. To answer your question, the few venues that may work, aren’t currently hosting any large events. It’s not really as simple as one would think. My company hosts events much smaller than any wrestling tournament. We can’t find any venue that’s willing to even host an event with more than a couple hundred people.
Is Montgomery County high school not in play? Seating capacity of 6200 x .15 is 930 just in the main gym. Not counting their press box, for KHSAA personnel. Not counting concession personnel as they would not be utilizing seating capacity. Really at anyone time you would not necessarily county this on the floor and coaching as they are spread not against the seating capacity. And if two sessions this becomes really doable. If that were an option it becomes alot simpler. If any high schools that have a big gym and a small gym it could be possible.
Just saying other sports last year should not be a justified excuse. Always improve your position. Last year sucked, this year stinks but can be better. Saying something is better than nothing is kind of a cop out, should be saying what is the best we CAN do, not what is the minimum we are willing to do.
How bout it Montgomery County? Be the hero's.
1 minute ago, J.W. said:Is Montgomery County high school not in play? Seating capacity of 6200 x .15 is 930 just in the main gym. Not counting their press box, for KHSAA personnel. Not counting concession personnel as they would not be utilizing seating capacity. Really at anyone time you would not necessarily county this on the floor and coaching as they are spread not against the seating capacity. And if two sessions this becomes really doable. If that were an option it becomes alot simpler. If any high schools that have a big gym and a small gym it could be possible.
Just saying other sports last year should not be a justified excuse. Always improve your position. Last year sucked, this year stinks but can be better. Saying something is better than nothing is kind of a cop out, should be saying what is the best we CAN do, not what is the minimum we are willing to do.
How bout it Montgomery County? Be the hero's.
Montgomery co is 5200 according to khsaa website. And I could be wrong, but i think schools are doing the 15% based on the seats available. If any bleachers are put up, it will cut it further
Freedom Hall is open and were willing to host. They have capacity of 18,000 x .15 which is 2700. Charge each kid wrestling in the state tournament 20.00 and 20.00 per spectator and you now have over 15,000 dollars to rent the venue. They may even do it for 10,000 because they have not had many events and now you have a great place In The middle of the state with 5,000 for the KHSAA to recoup some lost money on the year. 16 man brackets, 1 day, socially distanced. Plus the venue gets us for another 10 each for parking. Win - win for everyone.
Google montgomery county high school gymnasium
KHSAA site may be wrong but the school lists it at 6200 comfortably
Great solutions! Too bad they never asked anyone before doing it their way. In these times of covid, they can shorten matches, but lengthen rest time. They can completely change state and add another tourney, they can move the season around and eliminate tourneys, BUT they can't change the 5 match rule. SMH
3 hours ago, J.W. said:Is Montgomery County high school not in play? Seating capacity of 6200 x .15 is 930 just in the main gym. Not counting their press box, for KHSAA personnel. Not counting concession personnel as they would not be utilizing seating capacity. Really at anyone time you would not necessarily county this on the floor and coaching as they are spread not against the seating capacity. And if two sessions this becomes really doable. If that were an option it becomes alot simpler. If any high schools that have a big gym and a small gym it could be possible.
Just saying other sports last year should not be a justified excuse. Always improve your position. Last year sucked, this year stinks but can be better. Saying something is better than nothing is kind of a cop out, should be saying what is the best we CAN do, not what is the minimum we are willing to do.
How bout it Montgomery County? Be the hero's.
Makes too much sense. I know for a fact there were at LEAST 3 proposals sent to the KHSAA that mitigated risk of COVID, had 16 man brackets, and stayed within the capacity guidelines. The KHSAA shot it all down. What’s hilarious to me is our region has 20 teams and that’s ok. But, heaven forbid we have more than an 8 man bracket at state. None of it makes ANY sense unless you realize the KHSAA personnel doesn’t want to stay overnight, spend money, or travel. This is also the same organization that ran straight through the finals one year so they could get the tournament done faster. The state finals were on mat 7. I remember, because I was sitting behind mat 8 and was having to lean to my left and right just to watch the finals.
1 hour ago, Mc85 said:Freedom hall IS NOT in the middle of the state
Correct. Just north of Lebanon, which is in Marion County is the geographic center of the state. But there is not a hotel, high school that wrestles or arena there. Lebanon is 63 miles from Lexington and 68 miles from Louisville. Both have hotels and a large arena ideal for hosting.
Thanks to everyone who signed the petition, we have over 1500 signatures from 28 states in just under 3 days. I just sent a letter along with the petition and the 33 pages of signatures to the KHSAA. Hopefully they will be open minded about it, but no matter what the outcome is your support is appreciated.
Not really sure what I expected their response would be, but I was hoping for more than 7 words. Well good luck in your seeding meetings!
44 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:Actually surprised there was any response at all
Kind of a (un)fitting quote to use in a signature for Mr. Tackett.
30 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:Kind of a (un)fitting quote to use in a signature for Mr. Tackett.
My way or the highway would be a more fitting response coming from the state.
2 hours ago, CoachBauer said:Not really sure what I expected their response would be, but I was hoping for more than 7 words. Well good luck in your seeding meetings!
Is he seriously comparing/equating himself to Abraham Lincoln?! I'm sorry to the "catch more flies with honey" crowd. That is incredibly pompous and egotistical. In order to change the culture around the KHSAA towards our sport, we need to advocate for a well-respected member of our community to get on the BOC. Someone who can present our collective voice.
Delete my response, but what a fucking douchebag! It’s all so pompous. I’ll just stop at that.