While most of the commentary leading up to the state was negative (for good reason), I must say I really enjoyed the product we received. The smaller number of wrestlers and mats made it possible to see all the great matches that took place. Alot of those same matches in the horsepark get over looked. 

If the sectional would wrestle back for true second and send top four then I would prefer this format. I think that would help identify the 8 best wrestlers in the state for the most part. 

Biggest problem of course was the amount of potential placers who never had a chance. 

I feel like at this point in KY, this product would draw more casual fans who don't have a kid as opposed to the previous format. Ultimately it would help grow the popularity of wrestling in our state. 

Wonder what everyone else thinks?

I think it depends on what the goals are. Those need to be clearly communicated, first. 
 

Personally, I think a 16 man bracket is optimal. Regionals one week as normal. Semi state  (Region 1-4 and 5-8) the next week. The top 8 from each semi state qualify for the state tournament. It provides some kids an opportunity to upset some higher seeds while maintaining the integrity of high level wrestling. 
 

Are we wanting a 2 day tournament or single day? If it’s a single day, then use Indiana as a template. If it’s a 2 day tournament, I think true second should be strongly encouraged. 
 

I didn’t think the product yesterday was necessarily bad, but it felt more like a strong midsession tournament, not a culminating event. 

Go back to districts, regions, then state. Top four from districts go to regions and top four from regions go to states. Do real seeding by a seeding meeting for the state tournament.

The product we received wasn’t bad if you ignore the fact that several high quality wrestlers were missing. And also the fact that the khsaa boys basketball tournament will be held at Rupp while we were in a high school gymnasium. Change won’t happen for us as a community if we continue to be easily impressed and “thankful” for the scraps we get. These kids work too hard and for what? To not get a chance? Being from region 6 I strongly favor the 32 man bracket because wrestling in our state isn’t in an advanced enough state to cut out opportunities for kids because they are in a tougher region than others.

My guess is that regions 3,4,7,and 8 would be ok with the idea of district, region, state.  But just ask Woodford how they liked only taking 2 instead of the 10 they would have taken if not mixed into region 6. 

Or ask Larue who only took 4 instead of the 10 or Meade who had no qualifiers instead of the 11 they would have had if not mixed into region 1. 

I don't in any way believe that the spectators would rise if less were at the tourney.  I also believe that it would hurt many programs if the number of qualifiers were reduced. 

I have mentioned this numerous times.  I was not a fan of the 32 man bracket when they started it.  I am now convinced that it worked.  We have increased the teams by 20-30.  The only way you get spectators when little Johnny is not there is by families who have had wrestlers for generations, which we don't have much of yet. 

My takeaways:

great quality wrestling

pretty good officiating

sad that the event was in a HS gym with little to no theatrics behind the finals

the hammers who we thought would have tough finals matches, HAMMERED (Moore, Duke, Thomas, TKC, Smith).  

the awards ceremony was a joke

i really hope they don’t keep to an 8-man “final round” - because if they do, it will forever be in a high school

Old district -> regional -> 16 man state seems like the way to go, but we can go back to that until numbers return to pre covid

Excited for next season!

18 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

My guess is that regions 3,4,7,and 8 would be ok with the idea of district, region, state.  But just ask Woodford how they liked only taking 2 instead of the 10 they would have taken if not mixed into region 6. 

Or ask Larue who only took 4 instead of the 10 or Meade who had no qualifiers instead of the 11 they would have had if not mixed into region 1. 

I don't in any way believe that the spectators would rise if less were at the tourney.  I also believe that it would hurt many programs if the number of qualifiers were reduced. 

I have mentioned this numerous times.  I was not a fan of the 32 man bracket when they started it.  I am now convinced that it worked.  We have increased the teams by 20-30.  The only way you get spectators when little Johnny is not there is by families who have had wrestlers for generations, which we don't have much of yet. 

Did they do an MOW award? If so who won it.

24 minutes ago, kentuckywrestling said:

Did they do an MOW award? If so who won it.

No MOW’s and the team championship trophies were in a box and told to grab at the door and head outside. No team pictures allowed on the mat or floor!!

I hope they fix the final results. When you click the "2021 awards and honors". The placements are all messed up Walton Verona, West Carter and other teams are showing up twice on the list of team points. 

If the records were correct.  We had 10 undefeated state champions this year.  That has got to be the most ever. 

1 hour ago, kentuckywrestling said:

Did they do an MOW award? If so who won it.

I heard they sent a link out to coaches to vote.  Then award will be mailed. 

By eliminating the parade of champions takes away the pomp and circumstance of why we were there. It creates atmosphere and not having ceremony is, in part, why it felt like a regular meet vs STATE MEET.

 While I appreciated most of the quality wrestling there was with 8 man brackets , it kept way too many quality wrestlers at home and dooms the State Wrestling Tournament to a HS venue forever. More wrestlers = more $$$       But KHSAA doesn’t want to pay for a venue. 
*Too many potential placers were left at home while other regions had a cake walk to State. 

I don’t know what the issue was, but parents begging at the gate because they didn’t have a ticket should never happen. If state continues at a HS it is bound to happen again. There will always be limited seating. I don’t know the capacity limits but it was pretty full, imo. 

No podium allowed for the finalists, but they could have chairs 6 ft apart for the “awards ceremony”. Did anyone else notice how the finalists had to be 6 ft apart to get a medal but the referees didn’t have masks on and their chairs for finals were right next to each other? I should have taken a picture to show the KHSAA what they thought of that. 

KHSAA better be handing Basketball trophies out in boxes and not letting the team take pictures on the floor if a wrestling team can’t take a picture with their trophy. 

If Basketball gets Rupp arena, wrestling better never have to wrestle in the dirt again at the Horse Park. 

 

8 hours ago, Wrestling123 said:

By eliminating the parade of champions takes away the pomp and circumstance of why we were there. It creates atmosphere and not having ceremony is, in part, why it felt like a regular meet vs STATE MEET.

 While I appreciated most of the quality wrestling there was with 8 man brackets , it kept way too many quality wrestlers at home and dooms the State Wrestling Tournament to a HS venue forever. More wrestlers = more $$$       But KHSAA doesn’t want to pay for a venue. 
*Too many potential placers were left at home while other regions had a cake walk to State. 

I don’t know what the issue was, but parents begging at the gate because they didn’t have a ticket should never happen. If state continues at a HS it is bound to happen again. There will always be limited seating. I don’t know the capacity limits but it was pretty full, imo. 

No podium allowed for the finalists, but they could have chairs 6 ft apart for the “awards ceremony”. Did anyone else notice how the finalists had to be 6 ft apart to get a medal but the referees didn’t have masks on and their chairs for finals were right next to each other? I should have taken a picture to show the KHSAA what they thought of that. 

KHSAA better be handing Basketball trophies out in boxes and not letting the team take pictures on the floor if a wrestling team can’t take a picture with their trophy. 

If Basketball gets Rupp arena, wrestling better never have to wrestle in the dirt again at the Horse Park. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Wrestling123 said:

By eliminating the parade of champions takes away the pomp and circumstance of why we were there. It creates atmosphere and not having ceremony is, in part, why it felt like a regular meet vs STATE MEET.

 While I appreciated most of the quality wrestling there was with 8 man brackets , it kept way too many quality wrestlers at home and dooms the State Wrestling Tournament to a HS venue forever. More wrestlers = more $$$       But KHSAA doesn’t want to pay for a venue. 
*Too many potential placers were left at home while other regions had a cake walk to State. 

I don’t know what the issue was, but parents begging at the gate because they didn’t have a ticket should never happen. If state continues at a HS it is bound to happen again. There will always be limited seating. I don’t know the capacity limits but it was pretty full, imo. 

No podium allowed for the finalists, but they could have chairs 6 ft apart for the “awards ceremony”. Did anyone else notice how the finalists had to be 6 ft apart to get a medal but the referees didn’t have masks on and their chairs for finals were right next to each other? I should have taken a picture to show the KHSAA what they thought of that. 

KHSAA better be handing Basketball trophies out in boxes and not letting the team take pictures on the floor if a wrestling team can’t take a picture with their trophy. 

If Basketball gets Rupp arena, wrestling better never have to wrestle in the dirt again at the Horse Park. 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing about a high school hosting the tournament in future years. If we have little to no Covid restrictions next year we will definitely have a shortage of tickets.

State will not be at a high school next yr. I am VERY confident they are sanctioning girls next yr. 

under the SAME Regions/sub-state/state format 16 man brackets and girls KHSAA will still make $$$. 

I personally think it is silly, but if NFHS does pass the 6th match rule, I wouldn't rule this year's model out but adding top 4 qualify. I personally bought the "oh this is a 1 yr deal" at first. But seeing it done (yes it wasnt a perfect system) I think it may get revisited to go too. 

If this does occur, realignment needs to happen desperately!

14 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

My guess is that regions 3,4,7,and 8 would be ok with the idea of district, region, state.  But just ask Woodford how they liked only taking 2 instead of the 10 they would have taken if not mixed into region 6. 

Or ask Larue who only took 4 instead of the 10 or Meade who had no qualifiers instead of the 11 they would have had if not mixed into region 1. 

I don't in any way believe that the spectators would rise if less were at the tourney.  I also believe that it would hurt many programs if the number of qualifiers were reduced. 

I have mentioned this numerous times.  I was not a fan of the 32 man bracket when they started it.  I am now convinced that it worked.  We have increased the teams by 20-30.  The only way you get spectators when little Johnny is not there is by families who have had wrestlers for generations, which we don't have much of yet. 

Fully agree GOO on all your points.

If you continue to limit the opportunities for newer programs to achieve, how many programs are going to continue? How many new programs will start? How many will go away? Some of the newer programs are struggling with numbers for a multitude of reasons, why on earth would you put a roadblock in their way?  A lot of new programs have increased their numbers because of 1, 2 or 3 kids just advancing to the state tournament. To the legacy programs it doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a new team, 1 kid making it through region to the state tournament can be a huge momentum swing for the future.

If you look at the 36 teams represented at the Final Round, the newest programs there would be Bullitt East, Taylor County or Walton-Verona, all of which have programs that are very stable. The other 33 teams are programs that have been around for quite a while. If you want schools to drop a sport, make it as difficult as possible to win a title and make the title venue a less than desirable place.

Pick a venue that will hold the masses!! Union County, Johnson County, Ryle, Trinity and the other blue blood programs will fill the place up and still have room for the new guys. The venue/destination is part of the appeal to any sport. Talk to the coaches and Ads about a format for the post season, similar to the survey that is being sent out to all the coaches for football. The wrestling community is extremely loyal to the sport and should not be forced to settle for less. Being "happy for scraps" or "it was a really well run" are comments that need to be banned. No matter where a tournament is held, as long as track is running properly, the wrestlers/coaches are informed when and where they wrestle, and the officials are on top of things the wrestling aspect is extremely easy to manage.  

A lot of people know what it was like to wrestle state in a high school gym or the civic center or the dirt floor horse park. The atmosphere is something that cannot and should not be ignored. Our sport has outgrown Atherton High School(or any other high school) and the Civic Center. The Horse Park was large enough, but was not conducive for wrestling, being too cold, dirty, and no way to make the finals an intimate experience. Give the people what they want. The best venue possible and the sport will flourish. Freedom Hall or Rupp Arena. Make it happen! 

1 hour ago, BigBossMan said:

Fully agree GOO on all your points.

If you continue to limit the opportunities for newer programs to achieve, how many programs are going to continue? How many new programs will start? How many will go away? Some of the newer programs are struggling with numbers for a multitude of reasons, why on earth would you put a roadblock in their way?  A lot of new programs have increased their numbers because of 1, 2 or 3 kids just advancing to the state tournament. To the legacy programs it doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a new team, 1 kid making it through region to the state tournament can be a huge momentum swing for the future.

If you look at the 36 teams represented at the Final Round, the newest programs there would be Bullitt East, Taylor County or Walton-Verona, all of which have programs that are very stable. The other 33 teams are programs that have been around for quite a while. If you want schools to drop a sport, make it as difficult as possible to win a title and make the title venue a less than desirable place.

Pick a venue that will hold the masses!! Union County, Johnson County, Ryle, Trinity and the other blue blood programs will fill the place up and still have room for the new guys. The venue/destination is part of the appeal to any sport. Talk to the coaches and Ads about a format for the post season, similar to the survey that is being sent out to all the coaches for football. The wrestling community is extremely loyal to the sport and should not be forced to settle for less. Being "happy for scraps" or "it was a really well run" are comments that need to be banned. No matter where a tournament is held, as long as track is running properly, the wrestlers/coaches are informed when and where they wrestle, and the officials are on top of things the wrestling aspect is extremely easy to manage.  

A lot of people know what it was like to wrestle state in a high school gym or the civic center or the dirt floor horse park. The atmosphere is something that cannot and should not be ignored. Our sport has outgrown Atherton High School(or any other high school) and the Civic Center. The Horse Park was large enough, but was not conducive for wrestling, being too cold, dirty, and no way to make the finals an intimate experience. Give the people what they want. The best venue possible and the sport will flourish. Freedom Hall or Rupp Arena. Make it happen! 

Unless you change the timing of the State Tournament, it will never be held in Rupp or any other basketball arena . Mid February is the home stretch of the college basketball season, and no way will UK or UL give up their digs for a few days for wrestling or any other high school sport. And Freedom is out also, because Bellarmine plays their home basketball games there. It works for the Sweet 16 since college basketball is well into the NCAA tourney by the time HS basketball is running their event. I'm also not sure wrestling could fill a big arena. The horsepark holds about 5500, and I'm not sure that it's ever sold out. Rupp is 4x larger, and even if we doubled attendance, it still might not be half full, which I think would hurt the atmosphere more than holding it in Rupp (or any other large arena) would help it, especially if you think Alltech wasn't "intimate" enough.

Broadbent might be a possibility, as it is about 20% larger than Alltech in terms of capacity, even though it feels smaller. I seem to remember though, they always host something during the time period the KHSAA traditionally holds the state wrestling tourney. If that's the case, it's back to schedule. Perhaps pushing the season back a little woud help in not only securing a different venue, but also in attracting more football players since there's less of an overlap.

2 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Unless you change the timing of the State Tournament, it will never be held in Rupp or any other basketball arena . Mid February is the home stretch of the college basketball season, and no way will UK or UL give up their digs for a few days for wrestling or any other high school sport. And Freedom is out also, because Bellarmine plays their home basketball games there. It works for the Sweet 16 since college basketball is well into the NCAA tourney by the time HS basketball is running their event. I'm also not sure wrestling could fill a big arena. The horsepark holds about 5500, and I'm not sure that it's ever sold out. Rupp is 4x larger, and even if we doubled attendance, it still might not be half full, which I think would hurt the atmosphere more than holding it in Rupp (or any other large arena) would help it, especially if you think Alltech wasn't "intimate" enough.

Broadbent might be a possibility, as it is about 20% larger than Alltech in terms of capacity, even though it feels smaller. I seem to remember though, they always host something during the time period the KHSAA traditionally holds the state wrestling tourney. If that's the case, it's back to schedule. Perhaps pushing the season back a little woud help in not only securing a different venue, but also in attracting more football players since there's less of an overlap.

broadbent isnt going to happen with them charging you each time you are in and out.

1 minute ago, halfhalfhalf said:

broadbent isnt going to happen with them charging you each time you are in and out.

I don't know all the particulars related to each venue. If Broadbent is not an option, what other centrally located, non college basketball arenas are there? I know Pikeville has been floated, and capacity wise it works. It's just so far away from much of the state. Unfortunately, it's not just as simple as saying "let's hold it here". 

14 hours ago, Wrestling123 said:

By eliminating the parade of champions takes away the pomp and circumstance of why we were there. It creates atmosphere and not having ceremony is, in part, why it felt like a regular meet vs STATE MEET.

 While I appreciated most of the quality wrestling there was with 8 man brackets , it kept way too many quality wrestlers at home and dooms the State Wrestling Tournament to a HS venue forever. More wrestlers = more $$$       But KHSAA doesn’t want to pay for a venue. 
*Too many potential placers were left at home while other regions had a cake walk to State. 

I don’t know what the issue was, but parents begging at the gate because they didn’t have a ticket should never happen. If state continues at a HS it is bound to happen again. There will always be limited seating. I don’t know the capacity limits but it was pretty full, imo. 

No podium allowed for the finalists, but they could have chairs 6 ft apart for the “awards ceremony”. Did anyone else notice how the finalists had to be 6 ft apart to get a medal but the referees didn’t have masks on and their chairs for finals were right next to each other? I should have taken a picture to show the KHSAA what they thought of that. 

KHSAA better be handing Basketball trophies out in boxes and not letting the team take pictures on the floor if a wrestling team can’t take a picture with their trophy. 

If Basketball gets Rupp arena, wrestling better never have to wrestle in the dirt again at the Horse Park. 

 

 

To be fair 90% of people in the building were not wearing their masks correctly. 

58 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I don't know all the particulars related to each venue. If Broadbent is not an option, what other centrally located, non college basketball arenas are there? I know Pikeville has been floated, and capacity wise it works. It's just so far away from much of the state. Unfortunately, it's not just as simple as saying "let's hold it here". 

Owensboro convention center, WKU, E-town I think has a place that can hold a tourney that size.

I dont think you will see it leave horse palace. KHSAA doesnt want to pay for the state championships anyways. Sooooo..... we aren't leaving anytime soon.

15 hours ago, Wrestling123 said:

By eliminating the parade of champions takes away the pomp and circumstance of why we were there. It creates atmosphere and not having ceremony is, in part, why it felt like a regular meet vs STATE MEET.

 While I appreciated most of the quality wrestling there was with 8 man brackets , it kept way too many quality wrestlers at home and dooms the State Wrestling Tournament to a HS venue forever. More wrestlers = more $$$       But KHSAA doesn’t want to pay for a venue. 
*Too many potential placers were left at home while other regions had a cake walk to State. 

I don’t know what the issue was, but parents begging at the gate because they didn’t have a ticket should never happen. If state continues at a HS it is bound to happen again. There will always be limited seating. I don’t know the capacity limits but it was pretty full, imo. 

No podium allowed for the finalists, but they could have chairs 6 ft apart for the “awards ceremony”. Did anyone else notice how the finalists had to be 6 ft apart to get a medal but the referees didn’t have masks on and their chairs for finals were right next to each other? I should have taken a picture to show the KHSAA what they thought of that. 

KHSAA better be handing Basketball trophies out in boxes and not letting the team take pictures on the floor if a wrestling team can’t take a picture with their trophy. 

If Basketball gets Rupp arena, wrestling better never have to wrestle in the dirt again at the Horse Park. 

 

 

i agree on the podium, you’re 100 percent right on every one of us officials having their mask down. ( my mask was on in that picture ) but i can assure you that our A** were ripped for not having our mask pulled up throughout the tournament. but having said that i looked in the crowd countless of many times and seen if not more that half the people in there without a mask on.  if you’re going to attack at the officials for not being 6ft apart in the chairs were y’all 6ft apart in the stands? the KHSAA overlooked a lot of things for this state tournament. be happy everyone was their and the kids were allowed to wrestle that’s the best thing! remember at the beginning of the season we were all happy to be there. 

25 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Unless you change the timing of the State Tournament, it will never be held in Rupp or any other basketball arena . Mid February is the home stretch of the college basketball season, and no way will UK or UL give up their digs for a few days for wrestling or any other high school sport. And Freedom is out also, because Bellarmine plays their home basketball games there. It works for the Sweet 16 since college basketball is well into the NCAA tourney by the time HS basketball is running their event. I'm also not sure wrestling could fill a big arena. The horsepark holds about 5500, and I'm not sure that it's ever sold out. Rupp is 4x larger, and even if we doubled attendance, it still might not be half full, which I think would hurt the atmosphere more than holding it in Rupp (or any other large arena) would help it, especially if you think Alltech wasn't "intimate" enough.

Broadbent might be a possibility, as it is about 20% larger than Alltech in terms of capacity, even though it feels smaller. I seem to remember though, they always host something during the time period the KHSAA traditionally holds the state wrestling tourney. If that's the case, it's back to schedule. Perhaps pushing the season back a little woud help in not only securing a different venue, but also in attracting more football players since there's less of an overlap.

This is perfect discussion. An option is given. Pros and cons are presented. Let's work through them to get to the desired outcome.

Wrestling, is at the mercy of high school basketball?? Sounds discriminatory if you ask me. Let's work on a timeline. Find the venue and the dates. Previously, Freedom Hall and Broadbent were out because of the Farm Machinery show. Rupp is only used for games and other non state events. Other dates are available, I'm sure we can find one. Basketball made sure to find one for both the boys and girls well in advance this year. January 19th to be exact. There is almost 11 months between now and next post season. If this season has shown us anything, fluidity in scheduling is key.  

Filling a big arena. I don't believe any sport has an increased expense per person, only per rental. So, if we have 50 or 5000 the rent is the same. Make it affordable and enjoyable, not cold and dirty and more people will be there in my opinion. Give it the gallantry and showmanship it deserves and people will be there. Does Rupp sell out for every high school basketball game??

Intimate finals atmosphere. Freedom Hall and Rupp have floor seating that in minutes can be made available to give a much more intimate feel along with lighting capabilities that can match or out do what the Civic Center had.

Wrestling does have a tremendous overlap in athletes with cross country and football. Pushing the start of the season back is not the worst option. I don't know that limiting the season is the best idea, but if that gets the post season venue of choice, so be it.

The next thing to figure out is the budget. How much money does the KHSAA need to profit? Wrestling revenue in 2018-2019 was in the $30-$35K range. I would suspect that number was the same this year unless the semi state and final round sites took a significant chunk of the gate. So next year we need to be in the $35K range or more, I would think. So not counting sponsors, the gate for 3000 spectators at an average of $25(based on 1 day or 2 day passes). $75,000. If that's not enough gate money to offset expenses adjustments will need to be made, obviously. This year there were roughly 448 spectators allowed per venue for the semi state round plus 448 for the final round. That's 2240 spectators at $20 per person = $44,800.

Let's work together to make it happen.       

I could care less if a referee even brought a mask to the venue.  Was not a cut on the officials.  And I agree people in the stands were not able to distant.  You stated KHSAA looked the other way or overlooked alot of things, but for what reason.

Bottom line is no decision made by the KHSAA was for health reasons, only for reducing day, time, and labor.  

There was more room last year for distancing with 32 man brackets at a larger venue, with unlimited ticket sales than there was Saturday.  

The decisions made were under the name of covid, but not for safety reasons.

Here is a picture of Saturday Morning last year, no restrictions, full brackets, unlimited ticket sales.  Look at all the empty seats and ability to social distance.  There was no ability at the high school gym.

Now tell me how this past weekend prevented anything except less kids getting an opportunity, and a shorter weekend for the governing body.

Basketball kept Rupp Arena under the name of tradition.  That is fine but wrestling deserves the tradition of 32 man brackets, top 4 from each region competing for a shot at a state medal.  Not reduced down to limit work.  

If it is too much work for the governing body, then allow the coach's association to run the tournament and give the money to the khsaa.

To say people in the stands, they were not wearing KHSAA logos on their chest or being paid by the KHSAA that day.  They were just stuffed into a high school gym because they were told this would be safer than last year.

Hopefully next year is a better year for Kentucky Wrestling!

Nice picture !

23 hours ago, Wrestling123 said:

KHSAA better be handing Basketball trophies out in boxes and not letting the team take pictures on the floor if a wrestling team can’t take a picture with their trophy. 

Oops

After seeing photos from the first round of the Boys Sweet Sixteen, I am quickly reminded of how different things are in Rupp Arena compared to a high school gym. What it's like having a student section to cheer on your class mates.

We have to figure out a way to do better for our Wrestlers 

7 hours ago, Wrestling123 said:

 

Wow that looks awesome.   Meanwhile moving the mats for finals is an act of God.  
 

Also saw they handed the trophy out on the court, let players cut down the nets, let parents celebrate with their kids, and rushed the court.   
 

Where was Tackett and Barren regulating?

Conveniently timed bathroom break. Or maybe chik-fila delivered to hospitality room at just the right moment. 
 

Nothing at all against the basketball folks for doing things the right way. More of a black eye on us for not finding a way to give our kids what they deserved. Shame on us and our lack of leadership. 

Exactly. I’m happy the kids that play basketball get this kind of celebration and reward. I just can not comprehend why wrestlers don’t get this kind of treatment too. Is is that hard to move a mat to the center? To turn down the lights and shine a spotlight on our kids accomplishments? To put them on a podium? 

There was also team trophy presentations for semi-final losers.  

Results for the Ky State Wrestling Championship were published in the Lexington Herald Leader today on the back page of the paper.  In all honesty I didn’t think they were going to be published this year.  Who is responsible for getting the results out to the public?  

13 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Conveniently timed bathroom break. Or maybe chik-fila delivered to hospitality room at just the right moment. 
 

Nothing at all against the basketball folks for doing things the right way. More of a black eye on us for not finding a way to give our kids what they deserved. Shame on us and our lack of leadership. 

KY Wrestling Leadership should send those videos and pictures to Tackett, Barren, and the entire BOC on repeat until next February.  
 

Get AD’s on board and send emails to the entire BOC and KBE on copy.  Make someone be accountable.   

5 hours ago, bestmistake33 said:

KY Wrestling Leadership should send those videos and pictures to Tackett, Barren, and the entire BOC on repeat until next February.  
 

Get AD’s on board and send emails to the entire BOC and KBE on copy.  Make someone be accountable.   

After seeing this video, I for one am very disappointed in KHSAA and Mr. Barren and Mr. Tackett. BUT 

Lets make sure we are not trying to punish Basketball, just show that we were not treated equally. I don't want to take away from any high school athlete.  It is not the kids fault. 

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

After seeing this video, I for one am very disappointed in KHSAA and Mr. Barren and Mr. Tackett. BUT 

Lets make sure we are not trying to punish Basketball, just show that we were not treated equally. I don't want to take away from any high school athlete.  It is not the kids fault. 

I don’t think anyone is criticizing basketball at all. It’s 100% on the Westling folks who told us this absolutely could not happen. 

19 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

I don’t think anyone is criticizing basketball at all. It’s 100% on the Westling folks who told us this absolutely could not happen. 

It’s very disappointing though that the wrestling community dutifully followed the rules despite strongly disagreeing, while the same guidelines were likely in place in place for basketball and were just simply ignored by both the teams and the KHSAA. I’ve tried my best to be supportive and understand the decision making process of why the KHSAA does what it does. And I get that basketball is likely the number one sport in terms of participation (at least in number of schools playing), and that the Sweet 16 is the premier event in the state. But every other sport has had to make pretty serious concessions, while outside of some attendance limitations, the Basketball post season was business as usual. I’m very involved in the Football community, and they are having similar conversations as to why the basketball post season seemingly had no real limitation, and got such a big production.

I don’t begrudge the basketball players, coaches or teams. This is all on the KHSAA.

I will tell you that I know the dad of the winning teams head coach.  He tried to get onto the floor to congratulate his son. He was stopped by a security guard and told they could not go down this year.  The security officer told him that KHSAA got on the security officers for the lack of security the night before.  The winning teams players were given their medals by their coach after they left the building and not by KHSAA officials as usual.  There was a little change in the event but by no way the change that the wresting state tournament had to endure. 

Good grief. Never seen so many grown men whine. We got to wrestle. Other states weren’t as fortunate. If we’re expecting to have the same treatment as basketball, then we better bring in the same community interest (this is in reference to the venue/excitement, not covid protocols). Seems like this board has been non stop complaining for the past couple of months (semi state format, venue, podium, etc). If you picked wrestling for the recognition, you picked the wrong sport. I don’t believe one kid tried any less to win a title this year because it was in a hs gym, and if they did than that says more about their competitive spirit then it does about the KHSAA. We’re a niche sport. Not sure when we forgot that (actually, that felt like one of the endearing qualities when I was growing up, blue collar mentality). I fully expect to get flamed for this response, but I think the Kentucky wresting community needs a dose of reality, not picking unnecessary fights with the KHSAA. 

19 minutes ago, Old wrestler said:

Good grief. Never seen so many grown men whine. We got to wrestle. Other states weren’t as fortunate. If we’re expecting to have the same treatment as basketball, then we better bring in the same community interest (this is in reference to the venue/excitement, not covid protocols). Seems like this board has been non stop complaining for the past couple of months (semi state format, venue, podium, etc). If you picked wrestling for the recognition, you picked the wrong sport. I don’t believe one kid tried any less to win a title this year because it was in a hs gym, and if they did than that says more about their competitive spirit then it does about the KHSAA. We’re a niche sport. Not sure when we forgot that (actually, that felt like one of the endearing qualities when I was growing up, blue collar mentality). I fully expect to get flamed for this response, but I think the Kentucky wresting community needs a dose of reality, not picking unnecessary fights with the KHSAA. 

Great perspective. But there a lot of people across the state and on this forum who have gone to great lengths to grow the sport in KY so that it is no longer a niche sport. The talent and level of competition has increased due more to what has taken place at the youth and middle school levels than anything the KHSAA has provided. Imagine if the carryover from youth and middle school was met with the same amount of support? Coaches and board members going out of there way to provide a top notch experience year after year only to be shut out by the powers that be at the high school level. The KHSAA and their pompous and arrogant attitude which has been repeatedly displayed prior to this year was only personified more this year. And who are the ones that were impacted the most? The wrestlers. The KHSAA failed them only to fill their coffers $$$. I personally hope it was worth it. 

I somewhat disagree with great perspective. The whining has nothing to do with being treated the same as basketball. No one expects that. But you can’t crap on our event in the name of safety and use a different standard for basketball. How was it unsafe for Union county to huddle with the team trophy at George Rogers Clark HS, but Highlands is able to cut down the nets and celebrate on the court their great accomplishment at Rupp Arena?

I’ve never said we should be in Rupp. Never claimed we should get any special consideration. Wrestling is not basketball and doesn’t have the following.  But a lot of good people have put in a lot of hard work for years to get us where we are today and we don’t deserve to be treated as an afterthought on someone’s to-do list. 

2 hours ago, Old wrestler said:

. Other states weren’t as fortunate. 

I keep hearing this statement. What other states were not as fortunate?  Ohio, Indiana, Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri all had their tourney. 

And if they did not was it all winter sports or just wrestling? 

With minimal research (could be more, but found this relatively easy) Vermont. 
 

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2020/November/03/Vermont-cancels-high-school-wrestling

Based off the article it appears wrestling and indoor track did not take place. 
 

*updated New York, too. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/highschoolsports/2021/02/a-nys-high-school-wrestling-championship-yes-but-its-held-in-pa-see-cny-roster.html%3foutputType=amp

**updated Connecticut 

https://ctwrestling.com/2021/01/before-it-even-began-the-wrestling-season-is-over/3742/

***updated Maine

https://www.pressherald.com/2021/02/26/maines-high-school-wrestling-season-officially-canceled/#

**** updated Nevada 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rgj.com/amp/6680211002

***** updated Rhode Island (still in limbo, but this late in to the school year it doesn’t look good). 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.providencejournal.com/amp/6817510002

https://www.win-magazine.com/2020/12/18/update-on-2020-21-us-high-school-seasons/

Good resource to educate some people on this board. We weren’t perfect, but A. we got to wrestle and B. we didn’t have to deal with some of the restrictions other states had to deal with this season. 

Long story short, we all want more for our kids, myself included. But complaining about every aspect of this season has not been constructive. 

3 hours ago, Old wrestler said:

Good grief. Never seen so many grown men whine. We got to wrestle. Other states weren’t as fortunate. If we’re expecting to have the same treatment as basketball, then we better bring in the same community interest (this is in reference to the venue/excitement, not covid protocols). Seems like this board has been non stop complaining for the past couple of months (semi state format, venue, podium, etc). If you picked wrestling for the recognition, you picked the wrong sport. I don’t believe one kid tried any less to win a title this year because it was in a hs gym, and if they did than that says more about their competitive spirit then it does about the KHSAA. We’re a niche sport. Not sure when we forgot that (actually, that felt like one of the endearing qualities when I was growing up, blue collar mentality). I fully expect to get flamed for this response, but I think the Kentucky wresting community needs a dose of reality, not picking unnecessary fights with the KHSAA. 

Looking beyond Covid restrictions this year, we should just be happy with what the KHSAA says we get? I think wrestlers already understand they don’t get the crowds basketball does. Sure basketball has a bigger following, but why does that equal our wrestlers get a sub par experience. Did you ever watch the State Wrestling Tournament when it was in Frankfort?The atmosphere there was electric. Even though this was supposed to be an exception year, I think it was also a pilot experiment. I can understand Region, Semi-State and State. I can understand how it saves the KHSAA money to move wrestling to a HS gym. But atmosphere CAN be made in a HS gym. It took coaches moving mats at the Horse Park. The KHSAA just hasn’t or won’t let the people who know wrestling do wrestling. KHSAA just keeps taking things away from wrestling instead of building it up. We don’t have to be in Rupp Arena to give the wrestlers a great State experience. 

Now that is a great perspective 

I don’t care what’s happening in Vermont. Who cares about Rhode Island or anywhere else a thousand miles away. Our border states went on with the show. And most importantly other sports in our own state during this season DID NOT follow the same protocols we were forced to follow that were supposedly for the safety of the participants and fans. It’s pretty simple. Those in charge chose to pick and choose the rules based on their convenience and not what is perceived to be best for everyone. 

12 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I keep hearing this statement. What other states were not as fortunate?  Ohio, Indiana, Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri all had their tourney. 

And if they did not was it all winter sports or just wrestling? 

Maine, Vermont and Hawaii. However ingnorance abounds in those 3 states. IMHO

I know that in Maine every other winter sport had their season.

Every state that boarders KY had seasons.

Hey son here's an old pair of shoes with the sides blown out.  But dad these shoes are torn and dirty.  Hey son be happy you got these shoes the kids in Africa don't have shoes at all. 

Meanwhile with the other son.  Here ya go son sorry I could only get you these $250 pair of Jordan's, money was kind of tight this year. 

OHHH but be happy you got to wrestle this year. GEEZZ. 

4 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

I don’t care what’s happening in Vermont. Who cares about Rhode Island or anywhere else a thousand miles away. Our border states went on with the show. And most importantly other sports in our own state during this season DID NOT follow the same protocols we were forced to follow that were supposedly for the safety of the participants and fans. It’s pretty simple. Those in charge chose to pick and choose the rules based on their convenience and not what is perceived to be best for everyone. 

Literally responding to a question that was asked. Relax

34 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Hey son here's an old pair of shoes with the sides blown out.  But dad these shoes are torn and dirty.  Hey son be happy you got these shoes the kids in Africa don't have shoes at all. 

Meanwhile with the other son.  Here ya go son sorry I could only get you these $250 pair of Jordan's, money was kind of tight this year. 

 

OHHH but be happy you got to wrestle this year. GEEZZ. 

By all means. Continue to cry on a message board. I can see some really impressive progress being made. 

36 minutes ago, Old wrestler said:

By all means. Continue to cry on a message board. I can see some really impressive progress being made. 

Then you have not looked very hard.  Many things have been accomplished by banding together in this site.  Middle school and Youth have made extreme strides by posting on here and getting input from others.  A few years back after gathering the troops (some of which were gathered on here) KHSAA put the finals on one mat instead of all the medals matches at one time. 

I'm sure there are other examples but those come to mind immediately. 

Plus venting is good for the soul. 

Some of this is not just venting but bringing awareness to the broader community. And as goo mentions there have been times where ideas were spawned from these discussions. 

In theory it doesn’t take coaches revolting to make mats being moved a standard practice. We would hope those with a voice and ability to affect change will make a real effort to bring about that change. This year we had way too much just be happy with what you got. That is not the wrestling mentality that I have learned and teach my kids. In fact quite the opposite. 

6 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Then you have not looked very hard.  Many things have been accomplished by banding together in this site.  Middle school and Youth have made extreme strides by posting on here and getting input from others.  A few years back after gathering the troops (some of which were gathered on here) KHSAA put the finals on one mat instead of all the medals matches at one time. 

I'm sure there are other examples but those come to mind immediately. 

Plus venting is good for the soul. 

This is the only site/opportunity that all who love Kentucky wresting can come together and work towards common goals for our sport. As Ranger and Goo has said, we came together to move mats, have youth and MS face offs, better awards, national level training with each other across the state and we can go on from there. Bottom line is that all our border states had their championships. We were told that this was for Covid protocol and safety then turn around the following week and do the complete opposite. Until we have leadership from the Coaches association and community leaders get through to the KHSAA regional Board members , we will never see change for the best. 

11 hours ago, gameface said:

This is the only site/opportunity that all who love Kentucky wresting can come together and work towards common goals for our sport. As Ranger and Goo has said, we came together to move mats, have youth and MS face offs, better awards, national level training with each other across the state and we can go on from there. Bottom line is that all our border states had their championships. We were told that this was for Covid protocol and safety then turn around the following week and do the complete opposite. Until we have leadership from the Coaches association and community leaders get through to the KHSAA regional Board members , we will never see change for the best. 

On behalf of the coaches association and a number of coaches on it, we spent countless hours trying to do everything we could to help make this year the best we could. I dont know what power you think the association has, but when dealing with khsaa it is minimal.  Sure youth and ms can be done however,  its not ran by the khsaa. If state was ran by the coaches association,  it would be much different.  So dont go throwing myself and our association members under the bus. You guys have no idea the time, effort, and battles we went through this year. I personally have done everything I can to help communication and to go to khsaa on behave wrestling. Coach Founder, Ashbrook, Dettwiller,  Ervin....they all were involved deeply and will tell you the same thing. If its a personal thing and you dont like me or the job I do, feel free to call me or talk to me in person. Not one person has come to me personally, only comments about "leadership " on here. As far as the kywca, everyone on there has worked their butt off to make wrestling better and did EVERYTHING they could this year, if you doubt that, you are simple misinformed or making assumptions. It was a frustrating year for everyone, but blaming the people who worked the hardest is disheartening.  

Scotty Teater 

859-797-2105 

[email protected] 

8 hours ago, coachteater said:

On behalf of the coaches association and a number of coaches on it, we spent countless hours trying to do everything we could to help make this year the best we could. I dont know what power you think the association has, but when dealing with khsaa it is minimal.  Sure youth and ms can be done however,  its not ran by the khsaa. If state was ran by the coaches association,  it would be much different.  So dont go throwing myself and our association members under the bus. You guys have no idea the time, effort, and battles we went through this year. I personally have done everything I can to help communication and to go to khsaa on behave wrestling. Coach Founder, Ashbrook, Dettwiller,  Ervin....they all were involved deeply and will tell you the same thing. If its a personal thing and you dont like me or the job I do, feel free to call me or talk to me in person. Not one person has come to me personally, only comments about "leadership " on here. As far as the kywca, everyone on there has worked their butt off to make wrestling better and did EVERYTHING they could this year, if you doubt that, you are simple misinformed or making assumptions. It was a frustrating year for everyone, but blaming the people who worked the hardest is disheartening.  

Scotty Teater 

859-797-2105 

[email protected] 

Scotty you need to read this in the context that it was written, from a friend and coach. Simply put, regardless of what efforts everyone in the wrestling community has put in the past or present  towards making Kentucky wrestling better, we will never get it accomplished until we get through to the members on the Board of Control and they make the changes for us. They don’t see it from the wrestling communities perspective. That’s all I meant from that statement. PS- I have your number on speed dial from the years past coaching together at FCA. 

17 hours ago, gameface said:

 Until we have leadership from the Coaches association and community leaders get through to the KHSAA regional Board members , we will never see change for the best. 

I thought maybe Coach Teater may have read this wrong way. Maybe should have read.  "until the leaders of the Coaches association and the community are able to get through to the KHSAA regional board members............"

Just one of the problems with reading instead of being able to actually hear the response. 

12 minutes ago, gameface said:

Scotty you need to read this in the context that it was written, from a friend and coach. Simply put, regardless of what efforts everyone in the wrestling community has put in the past or present  towards making Kentucky wrestling better, we will never get it accomplished until we get through to the members on the Board of Control and they make the changes for us. They don’t see it from the wrestling communities perspective. That’s all I meant from that statement. PS- I have your number on speed dial from the years past coaching together at FCA. 

Thank you for responding,  i Apologize for missing your point which i totally agree the boc needs to listen to the association.  I should have not quoted your statement, it was just last one before i replied, i should have made mine on its own. I will say there are ones out there that seem to have the feeling myself or the association is not trying, this is totally untrue. Thanks for your support and I have nothing but respect for you and your team. 

1 minute ago, grappler-of-old said:

I thought maybe Coach Teater may have read this wrong way. Maybe should have read.  "until the leaders of the Coaches association and the community are able to get through to the KHSAA regional board members............"

Just one of the problems with reading instead of being able to actually hear the response. 

Correct, I will totally own I misread that comment. My apologies 

I know that I appreciate all that you have tried to accomplish this year Coach T.  It is a thankless job and glad I am not doing it. 

1 hour ago, coachteater said:

Thank you for responding,  i Apologize for missing your point which i totally agree the boc needs to listen to the association.  I should have not quoted your statement, it was just last one before i replied, i should have made mine on its own. I will say there are ones out there that seem to have the feeling myself or the association is not trying, this is totally untrue. Thanks for your support and I have nothing but respect for you and your team. 

It’s all good Scotty. Just wanted to make sure you knew that it was nothing about you or any coaches. Literally a deaf ear is just that. Unless they have a personal attachment to this sport (which none of their kids wrestle) they will never know who their poor decisions negatively affect. I will leave you with this, I LOVED the safety minds in charge of controlling the grouping together at the Day 2 Semi-State/Medal rounds.  (like the “podium chairs”) atleast 6 feet apart to help control Covid  after they forced all the wrestlers (minus the 106 lbs) into the small gym to warm up on one mat. 8 wrestlers on the  4 mats in the main gym and 108 wrestlers on the one mat in the small gym!! LMAO!!!

Throw some dirt on the floor and that looks like the horse barn. I’ll never forget the year Mike Barren made made my good friend from St X clear the mats on main floor at Horse Park. From that year on , we were force to a one mat warmup. 
  So many examples!!! 

12 hours ago, coachteater said:

On behalf of the coaches association and a number of coaches on it, we spent countless hours trying to do everything we could to help make this year the best we could. I dont know what power you think the association has, but when dealing with khsaa it is minimal.  Sure youth and ms can be done however,  its not ran by the khsaa. If state was ran by the coaches association,  it would be much different.  So dont go throwing myself and our association members under the bus. You guys have no idea the time, effort, and battles we went through this year. I personally have done everything I can to help communication and to go to khsaa on behave wrestling. Coach Founder, Ashbrook, Dettwiller,  Ervin....they all were involved deeply and will tell you the same thing. If its a personal thing and you dont like me or the job I do, feel free to call me or talk to me in person. Not one person has come to me personally, only comments about "leadership " on here. As far as the kywca, everyone on there has worked their butt off to make wrestling better and did EVERYTHING they could this year, if you doubt that, you are simple misinformed or making assumptions. It was a frustrating year for everyone, but blaming the people who worked the hardest is disheartening.  

Scotty Teater 

859-797-2105 

[email protected] 

Now that is a great perspective. 

Maybe not my place anymore but as someone who struggles to deal with the KHSAA in another sport let me say the following.  The BOC doesn't care about wrestling as a group.  There are two BOC members who may care a little, but it is just 2 and they will even admit any attempt by them to "make wrestling better" will just get shot down quickly. (sadly one of those members is on their last year on the BOC)   Wrestling is not a primary sport to the KHSAA or the BOC, and therefore in their minds, it should not be a focus or anything to put time into.  

My point in all this is efforts to change that perspective are just wasteful IMO.  The old "beating a dead horse" comes to mind.  What needs to happen is efforts from a different angle, like those I mentioned in another thread about having a separate state tournament that was 32 man and ran like it should have been in the post season.  

19 hours ago, plantmanky1 said:

Maybe not my place anymore but as someone who struggles to deal with the KHSAA in another sport let me say the following.  The BOC doesn't care about wrestling as a group.  There are two BOC members who may care a little, but it is just 2 and they will even admit any attempt by them to "make wrestling better" will just get shot down quickly. (sadly one of those members is on their last year on the BOC)   Wrestling is not a primary sport to the KHSAA or the BOC, and therefore in their minds, it should not be a focus or anything to put time into.  

My point in all this is efforts to change that perspective are just wasteful IMO.  The old "beating a dead horse" comes to mind.  What needs to happen is efforts from a different angle, like those I mentioned in another thread about having a separate state tournament that was 32 man and ran like it should have been in the post season.  

 

Glad I’m not completely in left field on this one. If we think bombarding the KHSAA will get us traction, we are reacting off emotion. I think we need to identify 1-2 really big pain points and create alignment within the wrestling community. Right now we have so many grievances that we’ll get automatically shut down (it’s well known amongst most of us that the KHSAA couldn’t care less about appeasing the wresting community). The KHSAA are the gatekeepers. Pissing them off isn’t a sound strategy. 

Now to plantmanky1 point, creating an off season tournament designed to meet all of our asks may be more realistic. Our Freestyle/Greco ‘State’ tournament is laughable. Using our resources to make that more meaningful would go a long way, including better results at Fargo.