Exciting week of regional action.  Next up the new and improved semi-state.  Well somewhat improved.  If only they seeded the brackets appropriately.  

We will see how this week plays out, but I have Union building a slight gap on Ryle and Johnson Central.  But SS1 is a little deeper, so maybe things level out heading into the final weekend.  On the other hand Ryle and JC will be going head to head in SS2 so who knows how this will play out.  We'll all know in a few short days.

Hopefully everyone is able to show respect for their competitors and fans this week.  But I won't hold my breath.

Rankings_21_22_0216.pdf

How is Daviess county and Paducah ranked higher than jermaine Poynter at 157? I mean it’s all good we love being the underdog! 

Jaxson Wallace Henderson county at 175 beat the Calloway county kid twice. But I guess we can over look him as well? Being the underdog is great! 

Thank you again, Ranger for putting this out. I'm looking forward to the Ranger Report, if you have the time. I'll get my popcorn out and wait for the, "Why is so and so ranked above so and so?" comments...wait, it already started.

8 hours ago, HCHS123 said:

Jaxson Wallace Henderson county at 175 beat the Calloway county kid twice. But I guess we can over look him as well? Being the underdog is great! 

Pinned him Saturday. 

I would say the more I look at it neither Wallace or Powers have a lot to be ranked on.  Thanks for pointing that out, I may leave them both off this week.  And since a few of you western ky folks like rankwrestlers, they have Powers ahead of Wallace at this point.  Hmmm.

As for Poynter he has exactly 0 (that's zero) matches listed at 157 on track.  And while he had a great weekend, let's not forget his losses (a couple to unranked guys).  Those matches don't disappear from the record.  I will say he now has a couple wins over those guys mentioned and I should reevaluate that group of guys.

45 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

Pinned him Saturday. 

Yes, Wallace stuck him in the second to become a state qualifier. Where is the Callaway kid at this weekend? He is at the house where Wallace put him.

3 hours ago, Tbagnky said:

Thank you again, Ranger for putting this out. I'm looking forward to the Ranger Report, if you have the time. I'll get my popcorn out and wait for the, "Why is so and so ranked above so and so?" comments...wait, it already started.

Thank you.  Just imagine if some of these folks had real criteria to argue about like making the state finals???

9 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

I would say the more I look at it neither Wallace or Powers have a lot to be ranked on.  Thanks for pointing that out, I may leave them both off this week.  And since a few of you western ky folks like rankwrestlers, they have Powers ahead of Wallace at this point.  Hmmm.

As for Poynter he has exactly 0 (that's zero) matches listed at 157 on track.  And while he had a great weekend, let's not forget his losses (a couple to unranked guys).  Those matches don't disappear from the record.  I will say he now has a couple wins over those guys mentioned and I should reevaluate that group of guys.

You are right. His 157 matches aren’t listed on track, but the regional is on track where Jj just beat Wilson and McNeely. He has also beat them both at 165 and those matches are listed. He does have 1 loss against an unranked kid that he beat later. 

Also lost to Newby

4 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Thank you.  Just imagine if some of these folks had real criteria to argue about like making the state finals???

Imagine if these same folks tasked themselves with ranking 30 kids per weight.

1 minute ago, GentleBeard said:

Imagine if these same folks tasked themselves with ranking 30 kids per weight.

Ha Ha.  Nah, it's easier to just focus on your kid and the 20 matches they won (ignore the 10 they lost).

7 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Also lost to Newby

When he lost to Newby, he was ranked.

11 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Thank you.  Just imagine if some of these folks had real criteria to argue about like making the state finals???

I could say that, but he had a bad Raider Rumble this year. Since then, his only loss is to Chis Duke's kid. I like his chances this weekend and hopefully next weekend. The Mafia will be out in force Saturday!

Newby was ranked when JJ lost to him. 

1 minute ago, DrBaker said:

When he lost to Newby, he was ranked.

That's fine.  But as you evaluate him today, it's a loss to a wrestler that is not ranked.

2 minutes ago, Tbagnky said:

I could say that, but he had a bad Raider Rumble this year. Since then, his only loss is to Chis Duke's kid. I like his chances this weekend and hopefully next weekend. The Mafia will be out in force Saturday!

What?  You mean you acknowledge a wrestler actually... LOST.

I absolutely agree.  He shows up on his game he is tough to beat by anyone.

With all due respect. Henderson put up 99 points in region 1, with a champ, 2 fourth place finishers and an alternate. They are not even on the team rankings from what I can see. 

Maybe you have a rationale. I won't pretend to know your formula.

Jj has beaten daviess County 3 times, Paducah twice, lost once to Newbie, (no excuses) newbie was ranked. 

But rankings are silly, they are fun to talk about. Let's let wrestling talk for itself. That's how you build a culture. 

Wrestling is about growing. During the season, if my boys lose to some guys and get better....thats awesome....I care about seedings, placement, and advancement and I'll argue those, if need be. If ranger123 doesn't think any Henderson wrestlers have even a chance at a fraction of a point at the state meet, that's his prerogative, its his page....

The only thing I use this page for is to listen to chatter and see if a kid is decent before a match.

Honestly, I'm ready to wrestle saturday....Saturday.... back to the grind

These rankings mean a lot to these kids, not just the top 2. These small teams are working hard just to make this list. 

3 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

These rankings mean a lot to these kids, not just the top 2. These small teams are working hard just to make this list. 

I agree, for a lot of kids, it can be great motivation.

2 minutes ago, uncleruckus said:

With all due respect. Henderson put up 99 points in region 1, with a champ, 2 fourth place finishers and an alternate. They are not even on the team rankings from what I can see. 

Maybe you have a rationale. I won't pretend to know your formula.

Jj has beaten daviess County 3 times, Paducah twice, lost once to Newbie, (no excuses) newbie was ranked. 

But rankings are silly, they are fun to talk about. Let's let wrestling talk for itself. That's how you build a culture. 

Wrestling is about growing. During the season, if my boys lose to some guys and get better....thats awesome....I care about seedings, placement, and advancement and I'll argue those, if need be. If ranger123 doesn't think any Henderson wrestlers have even a chance at a fraction of a point at the state meet, that's his prerogative, its his page....

The only thing I use this page for is to listen to chatter and see if a kid is decent before a match.

Honestly, I'm ready to wrestle saturday....Saturday.... back to the grind

 

Therein lies the problem.  The results are hit and miss getting posted.  So many never show up or hit the system just before region when they are "required".  For the record based on the results I have looked at today, the Daviess kid is way too high.  But like you said, it is all decided on the mat. 

Team scores are 100% based on individual rankings.  As much as people want to believe I have some extreme bias again teams with the HCHS abbreviation, I don't even touch that.  It is a simple calculation.

2 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Therein lies the problem.  The results are hit and miss getting posted.  So many never show up or hit the system just before region when they are "required".  For the record based on the results I have looked at today, the Daviess kid is way too high.  But like you said, it is all decided on the mat. 

Team scores are 100% based on individual rankings.  As much as people want to believe I have some extreme bias again teams with the HCHS abbreviation, I don't even touch that.  It is a simple calculation.

I better go check on Henry Clay... Or was it your "hatred" of Harrison County? Maybe Henderson County too. 

1 minute ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

I better go check on Henry Clay... Or was it your "hatred" of Harrison County? Maybe Henderson County too. 

So that's why he's complaining about Henderson County, lol.

3 minutes ago, wrestling78 said:

So that's why he's complaining about Henderson County, lol.

Holy Cross, Harlan County.  Heck maybe Hart County too.

2 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Holy Cross, Harlan County.  Heck maybe Hart County too.

Never knew how many HCHS there were in the state.

5 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Holy Cross, Harlan County.  Heck maybe Hart County too.

Yup. None of those kids are ranked either. 

1 minute ago, DrBaker said:

Yup. None of those kids are ranked either. 

I'll try to remember to remove all the Harrison kids this week to fix that situation.  Have to be consistent.

Ranger,

just wanted to say thank you for the rankings this year. My son made semi state but strained a rib muscle doing so and will not being wrestling this weekend. We looked forward to your insight each week and just wish you to know that we greatly appreciate your time and effort to take this on!!!!

12 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

I'll try to remember to remove all the Harrison kids this week to fix that situation.  Have to be consistent.

Coach Ashbrook will be hurt, but it’s for the best. 

7 minutes ago, digitalagedad said:

Ranger,

just wanted to say thank you for the rankings this year. My son made semi state but strained a rib muscle doing so and will not being wrestling this weekend. We looked forward to your insight each week and just wish you to know that we greatly appreciate your time and effort to take this on!!!!

Hate to hear that.  A lot of time and effort goes into achieving those goals. Hopefully he wasn't a senior and will get another shot to make a run at state next season.

43 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

These rankings mean a lot to these kids, not just the top 2. These small teams are working hard just to make this list. 

I agree with you Baker. It's nice to get recognition..it helps the sport..I was just saying, I don't like my kids getting hung up on this guy is ranked this or why am I not ranked. This is one guy's, /committee's/formula's, opinion. I honestly have no idea who ranger 123 is and I know rankings have to take up a lot of time, so I am grateful for the sport and his effort. I just don't want my people to hang all their stock in it....

When a wrestler grows from defeats, gets stronger, and is an unknown in the grand scheme of spectators....I think it's kind of awesome...thats why we wrestle the matches....thats why it's exciting...thats why you have to be ready for each match...

I personally like a wrestler with a chip on his shoulder....

It's all a process of turning boys into men...

Yaull have a good day....I'll leave the rest of the discussions to yaull

11 hours ago, HCHS123 said:

Jaxson Wallace Henderson county at 175 beat the Calloway county kid twice. But I guess we can over look him as well? Being the underdog is great! 

Sounds like you really don't like being the underdog.... 

1 hour ago, uncleruckus said:

With all due respect. Henderson put up 99 points in region 1, with a champ, 2 fourth place finishers and an alternate. They are not even on the team rankings from what I can see. 

Maybe you have a rationale. I won't pretend to know your formula.

Jj has beaten daviess County 3 times, Paducah twice, lost once to Newbie, (no excuses) newbie was ranked. 

But rankings are silly, they are fun to talk about. Let's let wrestling talk for itself. That's how you build a culture. 

Wrestling is about growing. During the season, if my boys lose to some guys and get better....thats awesome....I care about seedings, placement, and advancement and I'll argue those, if need be. If ranger123 doesn't think any Henderson wrestlers have even a chance at a fraction of a point at the state meet, that's his prerogative, its his page....

The only thing I use this page for is to listen to chatter and see if a kid is decent before a match.

Honestly, I'm ready to wrestle saturday....Saturday.... back to the grind

 

Rankings are fantastic for the sport; it creates buzz and gets people talking about, what you seem to refer to it as, "nothing". Rankings create underdogs, upsets, feature matches and much more. Ranger does a great job about keeping up with the sport and does more than anyone else on these forums. Right or wrong, wrestling is still done and kids aren't put on the podium by these rankings. 

Wait until the Ranger Report comes out, he has historical data in it that will give you an idea on how close he has been in the past. Upsets happen every year, and no one has ever been perfect on these predictions. March Madness hasn't had a perfect bracket predicted ever out of millions. 

1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

Hate to hear that.  A lot of time and effort goes into achieving those goals. Hopefully he wasn't a senior and will get another shot to make a run at state next season.

no lucky for him he is just 13 he has 5 more years... keep up the good work

In my opinion the best way for your wrestlers to climb the ranks is to go against the best teams in the state ,sometimes you have go looking for trouble ! 

go across the state,or go out of state and find the top guys.if you start winning some of those big matches then trust me Ranger will notice.

Parents tell your coaches and coaches tell your AD that you want to see the top kids.

the only way to rank up is by head to head matchups .you can’t hide behind local wins and forfeits .we had a 33-1 kid  in our region who barely got 4th ,my point is records mean nothing you have to seek out the best competition.

39 minutes ago, Checkmate said:

In my opinion the best way for your wrestlers to climb the ranks is to go against the best teams in the state ,sometimes you have go looking for trouble ! 

go across the state,or go out of state and find the top guys.if you start winning some of those big matches then trust me Ranger will notice.

Parents tell your coaches and coaches tell your AD that you want to see the top kids.

the only way to rank up is by head to head matchups .you can’t hide behind local wins and forfeits .we had a 33-1 kid  in our region who barely got 4th ,my point is records mean nothing you have to seek out the best competition.

Exactly. Henderson should schedule Union in a dual. They are rivals at all of the other sports and compete (except football). Right next door to Evansville, go see some of the tougher teams in Indiana. 3+ duals against the same teams every other weekend won't cut it. 

I agree! that is why we wrestled the majority our matches this year with Indiana schools! seeking out tougher matches for my wrestlers so they would be better prepared for when they wrestle the teams in Region 1 like Union!

I had to come back and read my posts. I still stand by much of it, but I think my tone was wrong in some parts. I try hard to not let the actions of others dictate my actions....I apologize for anything that may have came off in poor representation of myself and Henderson County Wrestling Family.

Yeah, you have to at least look at someone's schedule before making a useful recommendation ukpridewrestler. I know you want to see us succeed (Carson) and I appreciate that. 

I know you want to see a Union county Henderson County matchup. I get it. I do too...

I may be wrong ranger, but why does it have to be that your evaluation of a wrestler drops after Henderson County beats them? It may be an algorithm thing. You were high on Josiah from DC you were high on Paducah at 157 and they are both well trained wrestlers. You even thought Powers was a rankable wrestler, until you found out Henderson beat him and moved on to state. That kid is a decent wrestler. He beat jaxson once and I think Jaxson beat him twice this year..I think that is the argument people were trying to make. I don't have time to look at every ranked team in the state and see if they all have top 8 or top 16 ranked wrestlers on their roster, but I find it hard to believe that Henderson County can't even be on the list if this is done to promote wrestling, make things interesting, and to encourage wrestlers to strive to do better. That was the argument. All due respect. I appreciate what you do and hope to encourage positive discussion going forward.

We are raising our game, and look forward to dual meets in the future with Union county, maybe even next year, if both teams agree and the date makes sense.

We needed mat time this year, because were a young team, and we wrestled decent-good teams in Indiana all year. We even got some exciting individual wins, but that's neither here nor there....

I'm optimistic and realistic. This was not the right year for Union and Henderson. Henderson would not have been ready mid year for the top team in kentucky. We have respect for Union County. At mid year, Union County would not have gained alot from wrestling us....so with all due respect, what would have been the point, of a dual, carson? Were not running from Union if they come up in a tournament, but I just don't think it made sense for either team this year...Does that make sense?

However, I do see a dual in the near future, a good hearted rivalry.....we have history together...made many friends over the years.

Just thought we would get a little  acknowledgement on rankings, especially after region. We did wrestle the toughest region in the state...we weren't even listed on the team state rankings and we placed 6th out of 15 teams. That's legitimate progress, and the highest point total we've ever put together at regional. 

Are we as good as Union county. Caldwell county, Paducah, Christian county today as a team.....no....but for this young of a team to go from finishing next to last in last year's region to 6th out of 15 in region 1....no one can argue that we did experience growth....

I'm not saying we have the best team in the state, but we have a program headed in the right direction. We're going to stay classy, but we're going to get excited and enjoy wins on the big stage, because we don't have the extensive history of a Union County, or Woodford County. We will show respect to every opponent as it is something we are really trying to build on in this family.

Everybody have a blessed day and a good competitive semi state tourney.

While I appreciate the work and effort required to get a program up and headed in the right direction (especially in region 1 or 5), I have to clear up a misconception.  My primary "job" with this is not to promote.  First and foremost my goal is to be as accurate as possible.  Rankings are just that, rankings on paper (or a forum).  Doesn't mean much once the kids step on the mat.  Promotion has to come from the programs and coaches and fans.  As soon as I rank a particular kid or team just to help promote them then it absolutely means nothing.  And trust me, I've had plenty of coaches and fans over the years ask to put a kid or team in a spot to help them make a case with an AD or admin for their program.  With that said, I am not leaving Henderson County off the list, it is simply that based on state scoring by the individual kids at this point they are lower than the teams listed.  Could it work out differently?  Absolutely.  I wouldn't at all bet against Henderson County punching a kid or two through this week and making it to the final round state event.  And that's how you build up that ranking criteria. 

Which leads to the specific rankings in question.  Yes, McNeeley and Wilson had some wins that shot them up the rankings.  But they have been up and down as well.  So when an unranked kid beats them it often reflects more negatively on the highly ranked kid than it reflects positively on the unranked kid.  UNTIL that kid adds more ranked wins to his resume to validate those wins.  If some random kid comes out and headlocks Stephen Little and pins him, in no way does that mean that kid should be ranked over him.  Little is probably pound for pound the best kid in the state and the rankings are about a lot more than that 1 match.  An important thing that UKpride references is that it is very hard to gauge some of the kids on the extreme ends of the state who have minimal matches against wrestlers from across the state.  Most of the in state matches are against a few teams.  Getting that semi-state (and state) exposure will help a ton in future ranking situations.

For reference, if I spend exactly 1 minute (only 60 seconds) looking at track results for each of the 30 kids at 14 weight classes, that is 7 hrs each week.  That doesn't include the time to navigate between wrestlers and actually update my spreadsheet to reflect the results.  Nor does it include time spent to evaluate the 5-10 kids beyond the top 30 who I keep on the radar.  Not to mention trying to figure out how to handle the numerous kids in that 15-25 range who have conflicting results.  Just saying, these names and the order are not flying by the seat of my pants or just for the fun of it.

15 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

While I appreciate the work and effort required to get a program up and headed in the right direction (especially in region 1 or 5), I have to clear up a misconception.  My primary "job" with this is not to promote.  First and foremost my goal is to be as accurate as possible.  Rankings are just that, rankings on paper (or a forum).  Doesn't mean much once the kids step on the mat.  Promotion has to come from the programs and coaches and fans.  As soon as I rank a particular kid or team just to help promote them then it absolutely means nothing.  And trust me, I've had plenty of coaches and fans over the years ask to put a kid or team in a spot to help them make a case with an AD or admin for their program.  With that said, I am not leaving Henderson County off the list, it is simply that based on state scoring by the individual kids at this point they are lower than the teams listed.  Could it work out differently?  Absolutely.  I wouldn't at all bet against Henderson County punching a kid or two through this week and making it to the final round state event.  And that's how you build up that ranking criteria. 

Which leads to the specific rankings in question.  Yes, McNeeley and Wilson had some wins that shot them up the rankings.  But they have been up and down as well.  So when an unranked kid beats them it often reflects more negatively on the highly ranked kid than it reflects positively on the unranked kid.  UNTIL that kid adds more ranked wins to his resume to validate those wins.  If some random kid comes out and headlocks Stephen Little and pins him, in no way does that mean that kid should be ranked over him.  Little is probably pound for pound the best kid in the state and the rankings are about a lot more than that 1 match.  An important thing that UKpride references is that it is very hard to gauge some of the kids on the extreme ends of the state who have minimal matches against wrestlers from across the state.  Most of the in state matches are against a few teams.  Getting that semi-state (and state) exposure will help a ton in future ranking situations.

For reference, if I spend exactly 1 minute (only 60 seconds) looking at track results for each of the 30 kids at 14 weight classes, that is 7 hrs each week.  That doesn't include the time to navigate between wrestlers and actually update my spreadsheet to reflect the results.  Nor does it include time spent to evaluate the 5-10 kids beyond the top 30 who I keep on the radar.  Not to mention trying to figure out how to handle the numerous kids in that 15-25 range who have conflicting results.  Just saying, these names and the order are not flying by the seat of my pants or just for the fun of it.

And here I thought you were just pulling names out of a hat. You mean that you actually do research?! Not to mention, you support your 2 sons, collegiate wrestlers at different schools, plus help coach numerous kids from all over the state at the barn. I really don’t know where you find the time, but I appreciate the semi-weekly rankings and what you do for this sport in this state.

Start a go fund me to pay ranger for his time. That’s it. That’s my post. 

Ranger would you ever consider doing a top 10 pound for pound ranking? Regardless of weightclass

18 hours ago, WhiteTiger95 said:

Ranger would you ever consider doing a top 10 pound for pound ranking? Regardless of weightclass

It exists, but only for a select special audience.