Congratulations to our 3 champions

1A -Union Co

2A - Paducah Tilghman 

3A - Great Crossing 

As the President of the coaches association,  we would like to ask how the coaches and fans felt about the move to 3 divisions. 

I was at 1A and felt like it was a great day. Some young new teams that were ecited to be there. A couple teams that have been around a seldom if ever made it there, they seemed to have great energy from their teams and happy to be there. Also a quick day and Nelson Co was an amazing host. 

From what I heard in the other ones, much of the same. Lots of great duals. Teams excited to get there and place. And great hosts in Taylor Co and Atherton. 

Would love to have feedback to make it the best events we can

2A was loaded with talent and we got to see several great match ups individual and team wise. Taylor County was a great host. 

Seems watered down. There are not that many schools with wrestling to begin with. Splitting three ways doesn’t give you the best duals possible. Call me old school but I liked it better when it was one tournament. You can’t tell me that a tournament with Union, PT, Great crossing, JC, Ryle, Walton V, Trinity wouldn’t have been better. 

31 minutes ago, Alf said:

Seems watered down. There are not that many schools with wrestling to begin with. Splitting three ways doesn’t give you the best duals possible. Call me old school but I liked it better when it was one tournament. You can’t tell me that a tournament with Union, PT, Great crossing, JC, Ryle, Walton V, Trinity wouldn’t have been better. 

Shamrock Slam the last weekend was pretty close.

9 hours ago, Alf said:

Seems watered down. There are not that many schools with wrestling to begin with. Splitting three ways doesn’t give you the best duals possible. Call me old school but I liked it better when it was one tournament. You can’t tell me that a tournament with Union, PT, Great crossing, JC, Ryle, Walton V, Trinity wouldn’t have been better. 

Its no different than football.  Wouldn't it be better to see Trinity, Highland, Beachwood, St X. Mayfield, Boyle Co. and Cov. Cath.  play it out.  

If you return to one tournament then only 12-16 teams participate.  The rest will have to try and find a place to wrestle and have less interest in the event. 

12 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Its no different than football.  Wouldn't it be better to see Trinity, Highland, Beachwood, St X. Mayfield, Boyle Co. and Cov. Cath.  play it out.  

If you return to one tournament then only 12-16 teams participate.  The rest will have to try and find a place to wrestle and have less interest in the event. 

As you, Teater and I discussed over Lunch this exact thing.

I was in the camp of keep it one division and then keep it two divisions.

The 3 divisions give different areas on the state something to fight for. 
 

If it’s the old way, you don’t get the Carter schools, Holmes, potentially bell or Nelson co to qualify.  That’s not knock at those 5 teams it’s just the facts. 
 

It does help with growth. Cannot deny that. I just hope Kywca can keep the duals moving forward.

1 hour ago, halfhalfhalf said:

As you, Teater and I discussed over Lunch this exact thing.

 

I was in the camp of keep it one division and then keep it two divisions.

 

The 3 divisions give different areas on the state something to fight for. 
 

If it’s the old way, you don’t get the Carter schools, Holmes, potentially bell or Nelson co to qualify.  That’s not knock at those 5 teams it’s just the facts. 
 

It does help with growth. Cannot deny that. I just hope Kywca can keep the duals moving forward.

I agree with this but I know that some teams have an open date this week why couldn’t we do a 3 way duel between the 3 winners 

Nothing beat the State Duals hosted by Henry Clay when it was just one division. I think multiple divisions will help the sport grow, but it is definitely watered down. At what point do we stop further dividing into more classes? Not just talking about duals, but individual championships as well. Virginia once had a super competitive 3 class set up. Now there are six classes and there are wrestlers winning state championships that just aren't that good. I really hope we stay with one class for the individual state championships. 

32 minutes ago, Aceboogie006 said:

I agree with this but I know that some teams have an open date this week why couldn’t we do a 3 way duel between the 3 winners 

Those duals took place the previous weekend when PT, Union and GC wrestled each other.

11 hours ago, Alf said:

Seems watered down. There are not that many schools with wrestling to begin with. 

Wrestling 135 teams 3 divisions.  Abut 45 per division.

Football 211 teams (unless I missed one or two) 6 divisions about 35 per division. 

How is this any different? Yet no-one seems to complain about football. 

The entire football world complains about a 6-class football alignment. Go to Bluegrass Preps around playoff time and it’s all anyone talks about. 
 

I liked the 3-class thing this year for growth but once we get things off the ground I would prefer going back to 2-classes. Some great individual matches at 1A where I was this year and some “newer” teams there who were a surprise. We’ve grown girls’ wrestling, more boys’ teams are adding, now we have to ensure we grow our officiating pool next year and beyond! Good things happening here in KY…we just have to keep going upwards and not back track. 

23 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Those duals took place the previous weekend when PT, Union and GC wrestled each other.

Great Crossing 42 Paducah Tilghman 24

Union County 41  Paducah Tilghman 35

Union County 55  Great Crossing 18

6 minutes ago, ClamChowder said:

Great Crossing 42 Paducah Tilghman 24

Union County 41  Paducah Tilghman 35

Union County 55  Great Crossing 18

Wrestled under different circumstances/importance than the dual state championship. I am sure lineups, wrestlers, and coaching strategies would have been changed some.

3 classes is a good thing. Getting more involved is always a good thing. Different competition is a good thing. It's only watered down if you see it as watered down. 

21 minutes ago, technicalfall15 said:

Wrestled under different circumstances/importance than the dual state championship. I am sure lineups, wrestlers, and coaching strategies would have been changed some.

The posted results were just in the interest of this chain. You could be right, but when 6 top 10 teams face off, I would think they would bring it. It should be a good tournament.

2 minutes ago, ClamChowder said:

The posted results were just in the interest of this chain. You could be right, but when 6 top 10 teams face off, I would think they would bring it. It should be a good tournament.

I don't disagree with your statement and not saying any scores would change. I think the importance of the state duals is a motivator though. 

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

Wrestling 135 teams 3 divisions.  Abut 45 per division.

Football 211 teams (unless I missed one or two) 6 divisions about 35 per division. 

How is this any different? Yet no-one seems to complain about football. 

People complain about 6 classes in football ALOT. Just visit any message board around playoff time, and you'll see plenty of calls to return to 4 divisions, or that things are "too watered down". Just like how so many constantly harp on the fact that Ky basketball is the best thing going because there is only one state champ.

5 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

People complain about 6 classes in football ALOT. Just visit any message board around playoff time, and you'll see plenty of calls to return to 4 divisions, or that things are "too watered down". Just like how so many constantly harp on the fact that Ky basketball is the best thing going because there is only one state champ.

I stand corrected (I don't really follow football).  If it was 4 divisions then that's about 53 teams a division.  Close to what wrestling has with 3. 

I think long term 3 divisions (for duals only) gives the sport something to grow in to. Right now I think we’re a big 2 division state. 
 

But as we speak a couple dozen announcements are running through schools around the state hyping up the success of their program. 
 

last week a few dozen schools wished their athletes good luck in the event.
 

That kind of hype is what grows the population of the sport. Maybe it doesn’t add any new teams, but there’s 36 schools right now that likely are going to have a handful more sign ups next year due to their schools success. 

18 hours ago, Alf said:

Seems watered down. There are not that many schools with wrestling to begin with. Splitting three ways doesn’t give you the best duals possible. Call me old school but I liked it better when it was one tournament. You can’t tell me that a tournament with Union, PT, Great crossing, JC, Ryle, Walton V, Trinity wouldn’t have been better. 

Let’s just cut the middle man and hand Union County 3 trophies while we are at it

4 minutes ago, 385 said:

Let’s just cut the middle man and hand Union County 3 trophies while we are at it

If they are the best team year after year then I’d give fine with that. Let’s be honest, they are the best team so isn’t every thing else just participation trophies? I get that it helps grow the sport and that’s awesome, but if a 1A school routinely beats everyone in the state doesn’t that show that there isn’t a reason to have 3 divisions?

9 minutes ago, Alf said:

If they are the best team year after year then I’d give fine with that. Let’s be honest, they are the best team so isn’t every thing else just participation trophies? I get that it helps grow the sport and that’s awesome, but if a 1A school routinely beats everyone in the state doesn’t that show that there isn’t a reason to have 3 divisions?

Ohio state championships are 3 divisions…

Kentucky is one of very few states in the entire country with a single division state tournament. I’ve seen a state that actually did dilute its competition to the point that the coaches became upset (Virginia) but Kentucky is not at that point at all

Ohio has 600 high schools that field wrestling teams. Kentucky has 130ish. Big difference in numbers there.

4 hours ago, 119Rider said:

Ohio has 600 high schools that field wrestling teams. Kentucky has 130ish. Big difference in numbers there.

Exactly

On 1/30/2023 at 6:11 PM, Alf said:

If they are the best team year after year then I’d give fine with that. Let’s be honest, they are the best team so isn’t every thing else just participation trophies? I get that it helps grow the sport and that’s awesome, but if a 1A school routinely beats everyone in the state doesn’t that show that there isn’t a reason to have 3 divisions?

You could argue St Paris Graham in Ohio (A division 2 school) would compete for the big school title every year. 

On 1/29/2023 at 8:04 PM, coachteater said:

Congratulations to our 3 champions

1A -Union Co

2A - Paducah Tilghman 

3A - Great Crossing 

 

As the President of the coaches association,  we would like to ask how the coaches and fans felt about the move to 3 divisions. 

I was at 1A and felt like it was a great day. Some young new teams that were ecited to be there. A couple teams that have been around a seldom if ever made it there, they seemed to have great energy from their teams and happy to be there. Also a quick day and Nelson Co was an amazing host. 

From what I heard in the other ones, much of the same. Lots of great duals. Teams excited to get there and place. And great hosts in Taylor Co and Atherton. 

Would love to have feedback to make it the best events we can

Obviously thought provoking arguments for 3,2, or even 1 championship have been made, but I’d suggest going to Paducah Tilghman wrestling Facebook page to see the last few seconds of the match, along with their celebration, to see what it means to be a champion. 

I’ll just add in that State duals feels like it’s in a solid spot — our 9 top 3 finishing teams we’re all inside the top 12 in the last rankings. That sure feels competitive and respectable.

1A top 3 we’re -

Union (1)

Walton (10)

Larue (12)

2A was -

PT (5)

JC (2)

Boyle (6)

3A was -

GC (3)

Trinity (7)

Oldham (4)

I am happy with the individual tournaments remaining all one class — if they want to break out the team points into separate classes then go for it. But I’ll always side with everyone getting to wrestle everyone when it comes to individual tournaments. 

5 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Exactly

If you guys here want to take away from smaller schools for the sake of viewing pleasure then by all means go ahead. The people on this forum certainly have the power to do so. Not sure what stands to be gained from it though.

13 hours ago, 385 said:

If you guys here want to take away from smaller schools for the sake of viewing pleasure then by all means go ahead. The people on this forum certainly have the power to do so. Not sure what stands to be gained from it though.

I am at one of the smaller schools that sponsor wrestling in the state.  And while I agree there are things to be gained by having divisions, everyone has to agree there is a line.  To say Ohio has 3 divisions as an discussion point for why we should have 3 begs the response for total number of schools participating at which point there is no comparison.  Being at one of the smallest schools, I am not in favor of creating more divisions just so I can qualify and bring a trophy back to the school.  I thought the 1A state duals were great.  Mostly because we got the opportunity to face off with Union.  If Union decided to "move up" to 2A or 3A it would have been a different story.

Its a shame there is not another week in the schedule you could make this a 2 weekend event.   Weekend 1 wrestle for division championships.  Weekend 2, top 4 in each division wrestle in an overall championship. 

Just a thought

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

Its a shame there is not another week in the schedule you could make this a 2 weekend event.   Weekend 1 wrestle for division championships.  Weekend 2, top 4 in each division wrestle in an overall championship. 

 

Just a thought

Most teams don’t care that much about it. Their focus is regionals in 2 weeks. 

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

Its a shame there is not another week in the schedule you could make this a 2 weekend event.   Weekend 1 wrestle for division championships.  Weekend 2, top 4 in each division wrestle in an overall championship. 

 

Just a thought

I could get on board with that.  Then 3 divisions top 4 from each creates a second 12 team event.  That could be a fire event where every round has excitement.  3rd and 4th weekends of January.

On 1/31/2023 at 8:23 PM, grappler-of-old said:

You could argue St Paris Graham in Ohio (A division 2 school) would compete for the big school title every year. 

 

We lost to them by a decision back in December and we were missing 2 starters and they were missing one. I think its all about how you match up and your ability to shift around. Except for Union, no matter what they just smoke everyone.

8 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

I could get on board with that.  Then 3 divisions top 4 from each creates a second 12 team event.  That could be a fire event where every round has excitement.  3rd and 4th weekends of January.

Yep, like I said, be great if there was an extra week in the schedule to do it.  I get why it would be hard in current schedule format.  

8 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Most teams don’t care that much about it. Their focus is regionals in 2 weeks. 

There are always teams out there that want to dodge competition, teams could always choose not to participate, next team up.   

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

There are always teams out there that want to dodge competition, teams could always choose not to participate, next team up.   

I don't think it is dodging competition.  I believe it is just the opposite.  Giving up two weekends in a row and giving up your spot in two established tournaments you are involved in is a tough decision.  Some of those teams may be in highly competitive competition out of state.  Would Union give up their spot in Mater Dae (sp) or Father Ryan tournament?  It's mostly hard on those boarder line teams.  Those teams that may or may not make it year in and year out.  It's hard enough to have one question mark on your schedule let alone two. 

Just to be fair and to put my cards on the table.  I am not a dual fan. Even when I was with a good dual team.  I much prefer an individual tournament to a dual tournament.  I will however fight to support the state duals, I believe it is a good venture. 

Good points GOO.  Maybe let's go with 2nd week of Jan and 4th week.  Most teams already have a placeholder for state duals for the last week of the month.  The Dragon is a firmly established great in state event.  Let's not mess with that.  So 2nd week becomes Divisional state duals weekend.  Trinity already held a tough dual event that appeared to be open for a number of the top teams.

20 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Good points GOO.  Maybe let's go with 2nd week of Jan and 4th week.  Most teams already have a placeholder for state duals for the last week of the month.  The Dragon is a firmly established great in state event.  Let's not mess with that.  So 2nd week becomes Divisional state duals weekend.  Trinity already held a tough dual event that appeared to be open for a number of the top teams.

Would that give us enough time to get the qualifier in? 

Just being devil's advocate here.  2nd weekend in Jan, that is the Bryce Sheffler duals at Union and the Warhawk classic along with the Hammer and Anvil in Ohio. 

11 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

I could get on board with that.  Then 3 divisions top 4 from each creates a second 12 team event.  That could be a fire event where every round has excitement.  3rd and 4th weekends of January.

Super State Duals sounds pretty cool

3 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Would that give us enough time to get the qualifier in? 

2 things.  As I was posting rankings I realized I think I had the date wrong on the Trinity dual event.  It may have been Jan 21 as well.  Either way I think it could work.

But yes.  Using a Saturday for the qualifier is nonsense.  We could easily use weeknights in December and beginning of January to knock out those matchups.

Something we can look into for the future would be something that Ohio does.  

In the month of January (or al least a window, not sure of the exact dates) a weekday dual cannot occur unless in includes a dual against someone in their sectional.  By the end of the month each team will have wrestled everyone in their sectional revealing who the qualifier is for the state duals. This eliminates the need for a weekend sectional tournament.