If you think Ky State is great, do not watch Indiana or Iowa. I love this sport and love following it, but I’m not that excited for state. Being packed in a high school gym for 2 days with all the breaks for no reason and people standing in your way at the rail. I really can’t understand why it can’t be changed to somewhere more accommodating. I’m afraid it’s going to be much bigger this year. I was at Atherton and saw standing room only at Ryle. It’s gonna be a mess. Anyone else feel this way? 

It's embarrassing. You wouldn't have to go far to see how a good state tournament is done. Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri put us to shame. I don't know but I think it is part of the reason KY wrestling is so far behind everyone else. 

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

2 hours ago, El cucuy said:

It's embarrassing. You wouldn't have to go far to see how a good state tournament is done. Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri put us to shame. I don't know but I think it is part of the reason KY wrestling is so far behind everyone else. 

You don’t even have to go out of this State to see a better ran State tournament. KY middle School State in an arena, 32 man brackets, face-offs, single Matt finals, podium for placers, proper awards, bracket boards, and done in one day. The problem is the over management of The KHSAA. They need to set the guidelines and rules then get out of the way and the the coaches run the HS State Tournament.  

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

46 minutes ago, plantmanky1 said:

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

There are lots of college arenas. I bet someone could throw together a list of 50 places. 

1 minute ago, DrBaker said:

There are lots of college arenas. I bet someone could throw together a list of 50 places. 

I agree 100%. There are plenty of places to host that are centrally located. At this point I would drive from Pike County to Paducah for a nice venue for the kids. Martin County drove to Union for state duals a few years ago, If you build it they will come. WV hosts a great state tournament in the Big Sandy Superstore Arena in Huntington which is probably less that 10 miles from the KY border. I'm sure the teams that border Pennsylvania and Maryland don't mind since the venue is nice. 

8 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

Absolutely, all of this!!

KHSAA is a joke.. that sums it up.

13 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

It was pretty well the same at Atherton. Small concessions, packed bathrooms, etc. It had the feeling of a regular high school tourney. 

13 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

22 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

I agree 100%. There are plenty of places to host that are centrally located. At this point I would drive from Pike County to Paducah for a nice venue for the kids. Martin County drove to Union for state duals a few years ago, If you build it they will come. WV hosts a great state tournament in the Big Sandy Superstore Arena in Huntington which is probably less that 10 miles from the KY border. I'm sure the teams that border Pennsylvania and Maryland don't mind since the venue is nice. 

You have a lot of faith in school support for wrestling.  I know of several schools that could not go to the state duals when it was at Union because of the travel and cost. 

Just a few places across the state that could hold a 32 man bracket. I understand only 1 of those most would consider "centrally located" but wouldn't we sacrifice location for quality? Some would also depend on basketball not being in town that weekend. 

Freedom Hall--Louisville

SportsCenter-Owensboro

Corbin Arena-Corbin

Diddle Arena-Bowling Green

Appalachian Wireless Arena-Pikeville

McBrayer Arena-Richmond

CFSB Center-Murray

2 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

I would have no issue with spending two days in Winchester if we hadn't just spent last weekend in NKY for a "State Tournament Round 1". 

I've been around KY wrestling as a competitor and coach since 1998 so I remember the past two venues. Never went to a state tournament when it was at Atherton. I remember the 3 day tournament in Frankfort when they used to wrestle a round and half of championship matches on thursday. 

My problem with the two day state tournament is the financial burden we are putting on parents and programs forcing them to travel and get hotel rooms two consecutive weekends at different high school gyms and paying ticket prices you would expect at a large venue to sit in a high school gym. 

A two day state tournament would be great in the right venue. 

25 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

I agree. It needs to go back to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and State (32 man bracket).  

The issues we have with the post season setup are simply due to the KHSAA's lack of care and/or effort.

22 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
 

here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
 

I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

KFC Yum Center

Rupp Arena

E.A. Diddle Arena

All in the center of the state

Corbin Arena is the perfect venue for Kentucky, in my opinion. Middle School doesn’t have a 5 match rule like High School does, and they only require 15 minute breaks between matches, so they are able to be done in one day - unlike high school. They had 20 man brackets, started at 9am and the finals were over by 6pm. The difference (besides match and time rules) is KYUSA/KFWC are willing to turn a penny loose for the kids, regardless of the convenience of those running the tournament. Priorities matter. We complain every year how bad the KHSAA tournament is, but unless they have an open mind to listen without getting offended, nothing will change. On a side note, my experience with refs in the western part of the state this year has been a LOT better than in years past. I’m interested to see if they get their shot to ref at state. But, that’s for another thread… 

10 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Can’t wait for that

One of the problems with all the college arenas is timing. The state tournament would have to shift dates back so as not to conflict with the college basketball season. I doubt any college arena is willing to bounce their mens and women's basketball schedules around to host a high school wrestling tournament. That being said, I don't think most would have an issue with pushing the tournament back a couple of weeks, which would also mean pushing the season start back a little (which I also don't see as an issue). 

Clearly something needs to be done. I wasn't at semi state, but I've talked to a few who were, and at least at Ryle, it seems like it was not a well run event. I was told the tournament was being run remotely from Lexington, which seems like a silly decision and probably contributed to the amount of time it took to run the tournament. I've defended the KHSAA in the past, because I know several BOC members and understand the work they do and some of the issues they face. However, what's happening here is not defendable.

1 hour ago, BE BRAVE said:

You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
 

here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
 

I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

 

I was beat to the punch on some of this.

32 man bracket-- If you lose in the 1st round and come back to place 3rd you will wrestle 8 matches. Only allowed 6 in post season in one day. 

Middle school only has 20 participants in a 32 man bracket. 

Middle school wrestles shorter periods. 

45 minute break between matches in high school.

Not sure how middle school seeds, if you only seed the champions I would be OK with it. I do not like seeding all the wrestlers.  I don't like kids from the same region wrestling each other in the 1st or 2nd round in a 32 man bracket. 

The biggest complaint is venue. Every year, without fail, the problem is the venue. Problems have solutions. As a BOC comprised of educators and administrators, THEY should be really good at it. Granted THEY have been able to complete the season by hosting a state tournament, which is all that is required. But THEY have fallen woefully short of putting together a low level event, not even close to a top notch event. They have taken money(gate/concessions/vendor) and given very little or poor quality in return. Even when given help reserving suitable venues, by those who are willing to help, THEY refuse or seem unwilling or bothered. 

George Rogers Clark has a beautiful gym. Their coaches and staff should be applauded for their efforts. Which in my opinion every school would if put in the same situation. The people that care the most about wrestling are those that have wrestled, have been a coach, have been a ref, and are parents or grandparents.

Why not host the Sweet 16 (Boys or Girls) at George Rogers Clark? Those games are only 2 teams playing at a time. It seems a quite a bit more logical compared to 65 teams wrestling at the same time. Rhetorical question: Would there be any backlash if the Sweet 16 was moved from Rupp Arena to Lexington Sayre? 

My point is let's work together to solve the problem. Coaches, ADs, BOC and administrators get together and provide a suitable solution, a desirable location for the State Wrestling Tournament.  

28 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I was beat to the punch on some of this.

32 man bracket-- If you lose in the 1st round and come back to place 3rd you will wrestle 8 matches. Only allowed 6 in post season in one day. 

Middle school only has 20 participants in a 32 man bracket. 

Middle school wrestles shorter periods. 

45 minute break between matches in high school.

Not sure how middle school seeds, if you only seed the champions I would be OK with it. I do not like seeding all the wrestlers.  I don't like kids from the same region wrestling each other in the 1st or 2nd round in a 32 man bracket. 

GOO you are correct. No way to wrestle a 32 man bracket in 1 day. 

Middle school only seeds the region champions. 

The format high school used at the horse park is the best way, as far as rounds and timelines go. 2 days of wrestling, not 3. I do think the region champions(only) should be seeded in the high school state tournament. 

34 minutes ago, BigBossMan said:

The biggest complaint is venue. Every year, without fail, the problem is the venue. Problems have solutions. As a BOC comprised of educators and administrators, THEY should be really good at it. Granted THEY have been able to complete the season by hosting a state tournament, which is all that is required. But THEY have fallen woefully short of putting together a low level event, not even close to a top notch event. They have taken money(gate/concessions/vendor) and given very little or poor quality in return. Even when given help reserving suitable venues, by those who are willing to help, THEY refuse or seem unwilling or bothered. 

George Rogers Clark has a beautiful gym. Their coaches and staff should be applauded for their efforts. Which in my opinion every school would if put in the same situation. The people that care the most about wrestling are those that have wrestled, have been a coach, have been a ref, and are parents or grandparents.

Why not host the Sweet 16 (Boys or Girls) at George Rogers Clark? Those games are only 2 teams playing at a time. It seems a quite a bit more logical compared to 65 teams wrestling at the same time. Rhetorical question: Would there be any backlash if the Sweet 16 was moved from Rupp Arena to Lexington Sayre? 

My point is let's work together to solve the problem. Coaches, ADs, BOC and administrators get together and provide a suitable solution, a desirable location for the State Wrestling Tournament.  

Feels like you nailed it.  They are focused on holding a "final" event and or state championship.  What they are doing checks the box.

While I don't think that overall revenue collected from the event is anywhere near Basketball or other sports, the margins on it have to be thru the roof.  I imagine that they are paying GRCHS little to no money and raking in a lot.

Vice Versa, I bet they are paying Rupp Arena a mint and actually pocketing very little.  That's where wrestling and other sports help out!

So it seems that the only problem is venue.  The format at the Horse Park worked.

Now for the venue.  Will there be complaints when it coast $75-$80 for an all tournament pass?  Will there be parking costs? Food costs at the venue.  All major venues have a premium cost on food, and parking. 

There will always be some kind of complaint, the main concern is what is best for the wrestler. IMO. 

20 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

So it seems that the only problem is venue.  The format at the Horse Park worked.

Now for the venue.  Will there be complaints when it coast $75-$80 for an all tournament pass?  Will there be parking costs? Food costs at the venue.  All major venues have a premium cost on food, and parking. 

There will always be some kind of complaint, the main concern is what is best for the wrestler. IMO. 

The main concern should always be the wrestler and how can the state tournament be a memorable experience and a desirable place to get to!

A true wrestler will wrestle anybody, anywhere, anytime. But the pinnacle of tournaments should be the pinnacle experience as well. 

Cost is always a factor. To the point the question was asked directly, "How much money does the KHSAA have to profit from the wrestling state tournament to be satisfied?" No answer was given. It would be nice to see a budget report. 

3 hours ago, JKennedy said:

KFC Yum Center

Rupp Arena

E.A. Diddle Arena

All in the center of the state

Yum Center  $35K a day to rent

Rupp Arena $30K a day to rent

Diddle $20K a day to rent

All three have basketball conflicts as well so It would be a juggling act. but trust me, cant happen at these three, cost way to much. 

3 hours ago, Ucbcoach said:

Just a few places across the state that could hold a 32 man bracket. I understand only 1 of those most would consider "centrally located" but wouldn't we sacrifice location for quality? Some would also depend on basketball not being in town that weekend. 

Freedom Hall--Louisville

SportsCenter-Owensboro

Corbin Arena-Corbin

Diddle Arena-Bowling Green

Appalachian Wireless Arena-Pikeville

McBrayer Arena-Richmond

CFSB Center-Murray

 

Freedom hall is out its already contracted out for the days of state tournament.

Diddle is out as well due to WKU Basketball still playing. 

EKU and Memorial are about to be remodeled and are out for the the the next few years, but even though you would have basketball issues there.  

The rest I cant answer for but someone call the AD's office and ask what it cost to rent the place.  Id say its minimum $10k to 15K a day. 

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

8 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

Concessions are contracted out and ran by an outside source for just about every arena. Thus the arenas aren't making a ton off of concessions...just whatever the negotiated split with the service provider is, so "keeping concessions" as a payment isn't really a moneymaking proposition. It's also why it's unfair to hold the KHSAA accountable for food prices....they (and the arenas) literally have no say in the matter.

The smaller schools you mention like Lindsey and Bellarmine don't have big enough arena's to host the state tourney. Morehead, Northern and Murray are locked into their own basketball seasons. I have no idea about Wesleyan or Midway, but I suspect size is a problem in those two places as well. 

I think to entertain holding state in a larger arena, if you can get costs into an acceptable range, the season would have to change to hold state at a later date. Which then starts conflicting with the KhSAA basketball tournament, which is their cash cow.

14 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

Pikeville is very nice. Can walk from the hotels to the arena. Lots of restaurants. Far from the western end of the state, but If you’re coming to GRC what is another 2 hours for a better experience. I was at Ryle, the tournament was a mess. Weights were out of order, kids were confused on when to warm up. Stands were packed,  you had to literally climb over gear and each other to get to your seats.  I have been to  many a tournament at Ryle and they always run a quick top notch tournament, so I assumed the KHSAA was involved in running.

$80 for a 2-day pass is a lot cheaper than travel, hotels, gate, and concession eating for 2 weekends in a row with semi-state.

1 hour ago, Alf said:

Pikeville is very nice. Can walk from the hotels to the arena. Lots of restaurants. Far from the western end of the state, but If you’re coming to GRC what is another 2 hours for a better experience. I was at Ryle, the tournament was a mess. Weights were out of order, kids were confused on when to warm up. Stands were packed,  you had to literally climb over gear and each other to get to your seats.  I have been to  many a tournament at Ryle and they always run a quick top notch tournament, so I assumed the KHSAA was involved in running.

The KHSAA ran it remotely from Lexington. Which was a bad decision. 

27 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

The KHSAA ran it remotely from Lexington. Which was a bad decision. 

Hopefully not training the person for this weekend.

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

Yum Center  $35K a day to rent

Rupp Arena $30K a day to rent

Diddle $20K a day to rent

 

All three have basketball conflicts as well so It would be a juggling act. but trust me, cant happen at these three, cost way to much. 

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

31 minutes ago, BigBossMan said:

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

4 days Boys,  4 days Girls. —- ?

38 minutes ago, BigBossMan said:

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

14 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

I would say most of that rental fee comes from the $30 they charge per wrestler. That would be almost $50k in entry fees between MS and Youth.

1 hour ago, BigBossMan said:

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

I know exactly what they pay, but they also have a sponsor that offsets those cost of the arena. 

4 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

For paid attendance events most do not / can not due to risk management policies.  Now can they discount yes they can charge whatever they want, but most have a minimum. 

3 hours ago, gator1 said:

$80 for a 2-day pass is a lot cheaper than travel, hotels, gate, and concession eating for 2 weekends in a row with semi-state.

If you were to host at YUM or Rupp 80 to 100 a day would be probably what the pass would have to be.    Remember 15K plus wont be there to pack the place that can help keep the cost down.    Reminder the horse park at max capacity was under 6000 people. 

34 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

Just one thing to keep in mine is that they did youth in 3 sessions I believe.  Everyone wasn't there all at the same time.    Comparing 448 HS Wrestlers to 1300 youth isnt the same comparison.    Now operations wise the way things were done maybe there is some comparison.  

18 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I would say most of that rental fee comes from the $30 they charge per wrestler. That would be almost $50k in entry fees between MS and Youth.

I would bet for the weekend rental was $20K ish, maybe a tad less with it being back to back days. 

1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

Sometimes I know what I am talking about, sometimes. 

I have been to the state tournament every year since 1982.  Last year was the worst venue of all those years . This year will be the same as last year. I’m seriously contemplating not going this year because the venue is that awful for a spectator.

Question is… what does it take to get back to an arena type setting?    It can’t be all about cost because the Horse Park wasn’t free yet somehow they still made enough to keep it there for years.
 

ALSO, think about this, why should the KHSAA even need to profit from the state tournament.

It’s really a shame for the kids as much as anything else. It’s the wrong way to grow the sport.

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

Just one thing to keep in mine is that they did youth in 3 sessions I believe.  Everyone wasn't there all at the same time.    Comparing 448 HS Wrestlers to 1300 youth isnt the same comparison.    Now operations wise the way things were done maybe there is some comparison.  

They did do it in 3 sessions. 448 is pretty close to 1/3 of 1300.

2 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

KHSAA also owns the trademark for "Sweet 16". Which is licensed to the NCAA. That is more income they receive for basketball.  

4 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

Having wrestled in Corbin Arena before, the Patriot Open (college) has been held there for the past few years and it’s been pretty smooth with 10 mats, plenty of warm up space, and enough seating to handle state. Although the drive is a bit extensive, the only thing that I’m not sure about is hotels. Seems like the best option to go towards, but anything is better than GRC or Ryle or Atherton or any high school at this point.
 

So Apparently I’m signed under my kids name, however he’s not as smart as me so don’t be mistaken . I’m the level 10 crazy mom who started the petition and has been pretty vocal on social media in this matter so I felt I had to respond. I have also emailed and discussed matters with Mr Joe Angolia with KHSAA as well. Despite popular belief I generally do try to do my research and think thru other perspectives before I run my mouth (unless it’s in the heat of my kid wrestling). With that being said, I have looked at the expense reports from May 2022 and I’m interested in seeing what these numbers will be come May 2023 now that even more Covid restrictions are THANKFULLY not in our way. Below you will find the amount on the right is the profit obtained from wrestling; The amount on the left is the expenses. It seems KHSAA paid GRC just a pinch over $2500 for their facilities. In summary… it appears that KHSAA profited just shy of $35,000 from wrestling. Is that basketball and football numbers? No… of course not. We are not ignorant in that (even if we do all agree that wrestling is better than basketball). I also understand that they have to profit something. I don’t expect KHSAA to take a loss. And to answer someone’s statement above, I would absolutely spend more money on tickets in exchange for actual seats because 1 weekend is essentially cheaper than 2. On families personally and programs primarily. We must be realistic in what we ask for. And Rupp and Yum, is honestly not realistic. But I do think there could be a happy median away from GRC and Corbin doesn’t seem like too bad of a choice in that. Being it is right off the interstate, there are hotels within Corbin and neighboring London, along with ample food choices. Looking at the expense report for the price of awards, I find that to be a little disheartening myself. In past, our program didn’t spend much less then that in medals and awards for our own tournaments, and here this is the “Big Show”?? 

KHSAA has a board of control meeting on Wednesday night… and I would love to be there! But I’m assuming they don’t allow “outsiders” nor have an open forum. If I find out otherwise, I WILL be there. Until then… please keep sharing the petition until they feel they MUST make changes. Ask my husband, I’m obnoxiously tenacious and I’m not stopping. 

23 hours ago, BE BRAVE said:

You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
 

here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
 

I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

 

I disagree with this statement. Middle school doesnt follow same rules as High School. There is a strict 45 min between match rule that the high school has to go by that middle school uses none. My kid wrestled a match and by the time he got back to his sit he was already back on the board. His wait between matches wasnt even 25 mins. I do like the 32 but you will need the second day.

Freedom Hall in Louisville is the answer if it can hold 8 mats, which I think it can.  It has enough seating/parking/hotels, has no horse park dust, is a legit arena, and is east/west centrally located.  This didn't occur before due to conflict with the National Farm Machinery Show.  However, semi-state pushed the final state tournament back a week and the show's dates have stayed the same.  The KHSAA should simply return to the previous format (32-man bracket, 2-day tournament, regions the week before), and just end the season on the 4th weekend of February like it does now.

These are the other events happening at the Expo Center this weekend.  The USA Gymnastics Winter Cup changes places every year.  The only issue I can see is maybe the gun show, but it's in one/some of those rooms while the tournament would obviously be in the arena; the Expo Center is a huge complex.

Just an idea that would minimize logistics and, I think, would check all the boxes.  I imagine it is much cheaper than the Yum Center or Rupp Arena also.

1 hour ago, panthers said:

I disagree with this statement. Middle school doesnt follow same rules as High School. There is a strict 45 min between match rule that the high school has to go by that middle school uses none. My kid wrestled a match and by the time he got back to his sit he was already back on the board. His wait between matches wasnt even 25 mins. I do like the 32 but you will need the second day.

Track wrestling keeps a time of when the last match ended.  It will not allow the next match to start until the 45 minutes has elapsed.  When the whistle blew on his last match the time begins, it may not have seemed like 45 minutes but I would almost guarantee it was. The 45 minutes is from end of last match to beginning of next match. 

14 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Freedom Hall in Louisville is the answer if it can hold 8 mats, which I think it can.  It has enough seating/parking/hotels, has no horse park dust, is a legit arena, and is east/west centrally located.  This didn't occur before due to conflict with the National Farm Machinery Show.  However, semi-state pushed the final state tournament back a week and the show's dates have stayed the same.  The KHSAA should simply return to the previous format (32-man bracket, 2-day tournament, regions the week before), and just end the season on the 4th weekend of February like it does now.

These are the other events happening at the Expo Center this weekend.  The USA Gymnastics Winter Cup changes places every year.  The only issue I can see is maybe the gun show, but it's in one/some of those rooms while the tournament would obviously be in the arena; the Expo Center is a huge complex.

Just an idea that would minimize logistics and, I think, would check all the boxes.  I imagine it is much cheaper than the Yum Center or Rupp Arena also.

expo center will not happen. If you people complained about horse park with parking at least you got to come and go. Expo center and Freedom hall you're stuck. If you leave you're paying for parking each time. This is to include busses. This is non-negotiable or when I called to ask about it. 

Been around the sport in KY a while…long enough to remember the Horse Park venue. When my kid qualified for state and I walked into that building I was legit overwhelmed. It was like nothing I had ever seen before and the experience of the whole thing from the tournament of champions to the simultaneous matches, the fan all cheering on their wrestlers, the face off/podium at the end…it was amazing. It was what the cream of the crop should have when then achieve that level of competition. Anything else is quite frankly a disservice to the participants, the high school programs and KHSAA, because in the end  anything less makes KHSAA look bad whether they want to believe that or not.

Every year we have this discussion and there seems to be an impenetrable gap between KY Wrestling and KHSAA and what ever conversations have taken place between the two have yielded little progress on a solution.  
Just a question: is media attention to this issue an option or would it make things worse?

2 minutes ago, halfhalfhalf said:

expo center will not happen. If you people complained about horse park with parking at least you got to come and go. Expo center and Freedom hall you're stuck. If you leave you're paying for parking each time. This is to include busses. This is non-negotiable or when I called to ask about it. 

Parking is negotiated in the contract. Busses, team vans and coaches can be taken care of. 

10 hours ago, jackburg17 said:

So Apparently I’m signed under my kids name, however he’s not as smart as me so don’t be mistaken . I’m the level 10 crazy mom who started the petition and has been pretty vocal on social media in this matter so I felt I had to respond. I have also emailed and discussed matters with Mr Joe Angolia with KHSAA as well. Despite popular belief I generally do try to do my research and think thru other perspectives before I run my mouth (unless it’s in the heat of my kid wrestling). With that being said, I have looked at the expense reports from May 2022 and I’m interested in seeing what these numbers will be come May 2023 now that even more Covid restrictions are THANKFULLY not in our way. Below you will find the amount on the right is the profit obtained from wrestling; The amount on the left is the expenses. It seems KHSAA paid GRC just a pinch over $2500 for their facilities. In summary… it appears that KHSAA profited just shy of $35,000 from wrestling. Is that basketball and football numbers? No… of course not. We are not ignorant in that (even if we do all agree that wrestling is better than basketball). I also understand that they have to profit something. I don’t expect KHSAA to take a loss. And to answer someone’s statement above, I would absolutely spend more money on tickets in exchange for actual seats because 1 weekend is essentially cheaper than 2. On families personally and programs primarily. We must be realistic in what we ask for. And Rupp and Yum, is honestly not realistic. But I do think there could be a happy median away from GRC and Corbin doesn’t seem like too bad of a choice in that. Being it is right off the interstate, there are hotels within Corbin and neighboring London, along with ample food choices. Looking at the expense report for the price of awards, I find that to be a little disheartening myself. In past, our program didn’t spend much less then that in medals and awards for our own tournaments, and here this is the “Big Show”?? 

KHSAA has a board of control meeting on Wednesday night… and I would love to be there! But I’m assuming they don’t allow “outsiders” nor have an open forum. If I find out otherwise, I WILL be there. Until then… please keep sharing the petition until they feel they MUST make changes. Ask my husband, I’m obnoxiously tenacious and I’m not stopping. 

Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

35 minutes ago, matreturn said:

Been around the sport in KY a while…long enough to remember the Horse Park venue. When my kid qualified for state and I walked into that building I was legit overwhelmed. It was like nothing I had ever seen before and the experience of the whole thing from the tournament of champions to the simultaneous matches, the fan all cheering on their wrestlers, the face off/podium at the end…it was amazing. It was what the cream of the crop should have when then achieve that level of competition. Anything else is quite frankly a disservice to the participants, the high school programs and KHSAA, because in the end  anything less makes KHSAA look bad whether they want to believe that or not.

Every year we have this discussion and there seems to be an impenetrable gap between KY Wrestling and KHSAA and what ever conversations have taken place between the two have yielded little progress on a solution.  
Just a question: is media attention to this issue an option or would it make things worse?

If you thought the Horse Park was awesome, I wish you could have seen then tournament in Frankfort.

Reading through this I feel truly blessed that my era wrestled the 16 man, 2 day bracket at Frankfort Civic Center. It was the climax of state championship tourneys for our state.  That building was electric for semis and finals.

That should be the goal for event planning the tournament.  How can we recreate that enviro and location?

1 hour ago, BigBossMan said:

Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

 

KHSAA buys the 112 medals (1st thru 8th in each wt. class), team trophies (1 thru 4 I believe), most outstanding wrestler and most pins award.  

KWCA (Ky Wrestling Coaches Association) buys the small school team trophies (1st and 2nd), coach of the year and Official of the year, and Coaches Hall of Fame

KWOA (Ky Wrestling Officials Association) gives coach of the year and Officials Hall of Fame.

Missouri has had a set date with the University forever. Even with Mizzou moving to the SEC they were able to work out a schedule that did not conflict with their college events. They simply schedule away events the week of the tourney. They have nothing in the Arena after tonight I believe. Set up starts tonight after the game and wrestling begins tomorrow and goes all the way to Feb. 25th. They run four classes of boys and 2 classes for ladies. If it is feasible for them to be able to do this, I would think a college in Kentucky could do the same with less sports than a major D1 school. To look at their schedule just go to mshsaa.org and go to wrestling. There has to be a better solution than a high school for Kentucky.

If semi-state is permanent, then EKU could hold it with six mats (I've long heard the problem here was fitting 8).  Plenty of logistics and centrally located.

Personally, I think the KHSAA is going to sanction girls wrestling, get some data on its state championships, then make a decision, possibly holding both at the same time, or back to back.

I can’t understand how basketball has them all tied up. It’s 2 days. Just play an away game that weekend or play Sunday. 

Y’all are looking at this geographically wrong.  It’s what best suits the KHSAA.  See below:
 

Football State Championship - Kroger Field (5 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Baseball State Championship - Legends Field (4 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Basketball State Championship - Rupp Arena (5 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Cross Country State Championship - Bourbon County HS (18 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Volleyball State Championship - George Rogers Clark (16 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Previous wrestling venues:

Frankfort Civic Center - 31 miles  to KHSAA HQ

Alltech Arena (Horsepark) - 13 miles to KHSAA HQ

I think Corbin would be an awesome venue.  It’s 84 miles from KHSAA HQ.  NEVER GONNA HAPPEN

Right wrong or indifferent it’s gotta be a venue within ~30 miles of KHSAA HQ to qualify.  

1 hour ago, DrBaker said:

I can’t understand how basketball has them all tied up. It’s 2 days. Just play an away game that weekend or play Sunday. 

The schools have to be willing to work their basketball schedule around to accommodate wrestling. I have no idea if they are willing to do so or not. They also hold concerts and other events that could possibly be more lucrative than hosting a wrestling tournament, so it's not just basketball. It doesn't help that schools like UK, or any one else with a big arena don't have wrestling programs. So it's not just as simple as asking them to host....they also have to either want to host, or be willing to work schedules around to host. Doesn't mean someone shouldn't ask, but without even thinking about the cost (which is likely prohibitive based on the revenue generated), all these locations have to WANT to host the tournament enough to be willing to work their events around it.

2 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

The schools have to be willing to work their basketball schedule around to accommodate wrestling. I have no idea if they are willing to do so or not. They also hold concerts and other events that could possibly be more lucrative than hosting a wrestling tournament, so it's not just basketball. It doesn't help that schools like UK, or any one else with a big arena don't have wrestling programs. So it's not just as simple as asking them to host....they also have to either want to host, or be willing to work schedules around to host. Doesn't mean someone shouldn't ask, but without even thinking about the cost (which is likely prohibitive based on the revenue generated), all these locations have to WANT to host the tournament enough to be willing to work their events 

The KHSAA needs to ask the questions to the schools and arenas. There are venues that are willing to work with the KHSAA on price( the Expo center was offered for free). 
Is the KHSAA a money making business or are they a governing body for student athletes that offers those athletes the chance at an experience of a lifetime. That of a high school state championship. 

11 hours ago, BigBossMan said:

Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

 

It’s a cumulative amount of all KHSAA hosted events in the season so I believe that would be from Regions and on. I tried to obtain the report from the Horse Park era but I can’t find it online anywhere. I’m guessing it would have to be requested from the KHSAA office. I too pondered on the “Sponsor & Misc” section. I can’t imagine wrestling would provide a sponsor to anything so I would guess it would be “misc” items. As for medals, it’s disappointing really… because that tells me the quality of awards these athletes are getting. 

4 hours ago, tcats said:

7 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

The schools have to be willing to work their basketball schedule around to accommodate wrestling. I have no idea if they are willing to do so or not. They also hold concerts and other events that could possibly be more lucrative than hosting a wrestling tournament, so it's not just basketball. It doesn't help that schools like UK, or any one else with a big arena don't have wrestling programs. So it's not just as simple as asking them to host....they also have to either want to host, or be willing to work schedules around to host. Doesn't mean someone shouldn't ask, but without even thinking about the cost (which is likely prohibitive based on the revenue generated), all these locations have to WANT to host the tournament enough to be willing to work their events 

The KHSAA needs to ask the questions to the schools and arenas. There are venues that are willing to work with the KHSAA on price( the Expo center was offered for free). 
Is the KHSAA a money making business or are they a governing body for student athletes that offers those athletes the chance at an experience of a lifetime. That of a high school state championship. 

Obviously, the KHSAA is a governing body. But they also have to be prudent, and run like a business. They can’t ignore budgets, and have to make smart business decisions. They also have to answer to the BOE, and ultimately the state government. Thare not an independent organization with complete autonomy and free will.

I would agree they need to at least ask the arena’s if they are interested in hosting. But being interested is only the first part. 

6 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

Obviously, the KHSAA is a governing body. But they also have to be prudent, and run like a business. They can’t ignore budgets, and have to make smart business decisions. They also have to answer to the BOE, and ultimately the state government. Thare not an independent organization with complete autonomy and free will.

I would agree they need to at least ask the arena’s if they are interested in hosting. But being interested is only the first part. 

Is it possible to get the BOE and/or the State government involved in the conversation at least? We need an alliance..KHSAA may not be autonomous but it feels like the sport of wrestling is consistently getting the short end of the stick by them. 

On 2/20/2023 at 8:08 AM, plantmanky1 said:

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

Freedom Hall at Bellarmine would be a neat idea. They’re looking to build interest in their wrestling program already. Would be mutually beneficial.

On 2/21/2023 at 10:06 AM, grappler-of-old said:

Track wrestling keeps a time of when the last match ended.  It will not allow the next match to start until the 45 minutes has elapsed.  When the whistle blew on his last match the time begins, it may not have seemed like 45 minutes but I would almost guarantee it was. The 45 minutes is from end of last match to beginning of next match. 

It was not 45 mins because it was middle school. That is the point it is said middle school can do this why cant high school. Because there is a clock on high school not on middle. It is USA Wrestling only a 15 minute break. Thats what I was talking about guess I didnt explain it good enough sorry.

3 minutes ago, panthers said:

It was not 45 mins because it was middle school. That is the point it is said middle school can do this why cant high school. Because there is a clock on high school not on middle. It is USA Wrestling only a 15 minute break. Thats what I was talking about guess I didnt explain it good enough sorry.

 

High school follows National Federation Rules. The rules for high school is a 45 minute wait between matches with a maximum of 5 matches during the season and 6 matches in the post season (forfeits do not count as a match)

Middle School is not under KHSAA rules.  They follow USA wrestling rules. 

The KHSAA is NOT a business!!

They are a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!

WITH A $3.2m BUDGET…..

2 hours ago, Tapout said:

The KHSAA is NOT a business!!

They are a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!

WITH A $3.2m BUDGET…..

go look at the blog post from the BoC meeting today. Are they going to have girls and guys at the same venue? Yes. 
 

y’all quit complaining a little bit and realize we have change coming.

I’ll go on record and say:

my 5 venues we could see state at next yr:

no particular order: 

1. Rupp

2. Corbin 

3. dibble 

4. Convention Center

5. ky horse park ;)

And just how far do you think that 3.2 million gets them? 

5 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

And just how far do you think that 3.2 billion gets them? 

Million. But in 2015. I could google this but I am too lazy. Was that before or after their lawsuit with basketball and the transfers? 

Oops sorry I was typing in a parking lot. LOL

I just looked it up OHSAA (Ohio) projected spending 20 million this year. 

2 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

And just how far do you think that 3.2 million gets them? 

Again it’s a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION!

$3.2m should squeeze out an arena for wrestling not a High School.

From the news released yesterday expect to see the state tournament back at the Horse Park next winter. I would assume girls' one day and boys' the next two days; likely a Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Let's hope we are back to a 32-man bracket. I'm sure that proposal is going to go out to the voting delegates. The best thing wrestling coaches can do is if they want to return to a 32-man bracket without a semi-state would be talk to your designated representative. In most cases that is the AD, but in some schools it is the principal. You can find that information below by clicking on your school name. 

https://khsaa.org/general/resources/member-school-directory/

Quote from Linknky:

Connor Link, KHSAA Media Relations and Public Relations Director, released a statement Tuesday on behalf of KHSAA Commissioner Julian Tackett.

“Many municipal facilities were shut down during the pandemic and not booking outside groups,” Tackett wrote. “Because of that, combined with some past problems on how our team representatives treated facilities that we were using, there were minimal options when setting up for post-pandemic events. We are extremely grateful that GRC made its multi-million dollar facility, likely one of the nicest facilities in the state, available for our regular use. The facilities are set for 2023 and we look forward to an outstanding event.”

Tackett also wrote that many facilities, particularly those on college campuses, were not built for the KHSAA’s use, but for their students. “Each facility we have used has had pros and cons, and we continue to be very appreciative of those willing to host. Given the way many of our hosts are treated by some of those attending, we are fortunate to have options.”

Wrestling is one of five sports contested at high school venues. The others: Volleyball at GRC; field hockey at Christian Academy-Louisville and boys and girls soccer at Frederick Douglass.

What this tells me is that they can't find an arena to host this sport because we're disrespectful of the venue and dirty. My suggestion, everyone clean GRC so that it is spotless this weekend. Grab a mop, broom, window cleaner...whatever it takes to show Mr Tackett and crew that is just not true.

I wonder if there would be a Title IX issue with having girls as 16 bracket and boys at 32 bracket now that both are sanctioned.  Probably could for the first few years use the participation level % to get around it but it could be an issue. 

Im also wondering what the Horse Park charge is now to put down that floor, I know what it was the last year there.      

On 2/21/2023 at 1:17 AM, jackburg17 said:

So Apparently I’m signed under my kids name, however he’s not as smart as me so don’t be mistaken . I’m the level 10 crazy mom who started the petition and has been pretty vocal on social media in this matter so I felt I had to respond. I have also emailed and discussed matters with Mr Joe Angolia with KHSAA as well. Despite popular belief I generally do try to do my research and think thru other perspectives before I run my mouth (unless it’s in the heat of my kid wrestling). With that being said, I have looked at the expense reports from May 2022 and I’m interested in seeing what these numbers will be come May 2023 now that even more Covid restrictions are THANKFULLY not in our way. Below you will find the amount on the right is the profit obtained from wrestling; The amount on the left is the expenses. It seems KHSAA paid GRC just a pinch over $2500 for their facilities. In summary… it appears that KHSAA profited just shy of $35,000 from wrestling. Is that basketball and football numbers? No… of course not. We are not ignorant in that (even if we do all agree that wrestling is better than basketball). I also understand that they have to profit something. I don’t expect KHSAA to take a loss. And to answer someone’s statement above, I would absolutely spend more money on tickets in exchange for actual seats because 1 weekend is essentially cheaper than 2. On families personally and programs primarily. We must be realistic in what we ask for. And Rupp and Yum, is honestly not realistic. But I do think there could be a happy median away from GRC and Corbin doesn’t seem like too bad of a choice in that. Being it is right off the interstate, there are hotels within Corbin and neighboring London, along with ample food choices. Looking at the expense report for the price of awards, I find that to be a little disheartening myself. In past, our program didn’t spend much less then that in medals and awards for our own tournaments, and here this is the “Big Show”?? 

KHSAA has a board of control meeting on Wednesday night… and I would love to be there! But I’m assuming they don’t allow “outsiders” nor have an open forum. If I find out otherwise, I WILL be there. Until then… please keep sharing the petition until they feel they MUST make changes. Ask my husband, I’m obnoxiously tenacious and I’m not stopping. 

You mam are the true hero here for these kids. I signed and continue to share. Thank you!!!

Need to have state tournament in west Ky so UC don’t have to travel as far to win it. 

I posted this a few years back in a forum and found the picture again (albeit a small picture LOL.) 

For the old timers that remember Frankfort and the Dungeon. 

Not a "get off my lawn" post at all, but this was by far the best setup for state...........loved every minute of it. 

6 hours ago, Granby said:

I posted this a few years back in a forum and found the picture again (albeit a small picture LOL.) 

For the old timers that remember Frankfort and the Dungeon. 

Not a "get off my lawn" post at all, but this was by far the best setup for state...........loved every minute of it. 

I agree the best atmosphere ever. 

However I take offense to the old timer statement.  I remember both wrestling and coaching at Atherton High school before The Dungeon 

6 hours ago, Granby said:

I posted this a few years back in a forum and found the picture again (albeit a small picture LOL.) 

For the old timers that remember Frankfort and the Dungeon. 

Not a "get off my lawn" post at all, but this was by far the best setup for state...........loved every minute of it. 

Absolutely awesome experience at the Dungeon.

Gotta love 244 wrestlers warming up on 2 mats. Another feather to put in KHSAA’s cap along with kicking out the only D1 coach in the state. I can’t imagine them doing that to Calipari at the sweet 16. 

6 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

Gotta love 244 wrestlers warming up on 2 mats. Another feather to put in KHSAA’s cap along with kicking out the only D1 coach in the state. I can’t imagine them doing that to Calipari at the sweet 16. 

Who did they kick out and why?

On 2/20/2023 at 1:23 PM, plantmanky1 said:

Yum Center  $35K a day to rent

Rupp Arena $30K a day to rent

Diddle $20K a day to rent

 

All three have basketball conflicts as well so It would be a juggling act. but trust me, cant happen at these three, cost way to much. 

The cost of any of these arenas should be drastically reduced for KHSAA as they are all part of State Funded Educational Institutions.  To be even more pointed, KHSAA has Rupp Arena for the KY High School Basketball championship Sweet 16 scheduled for 4 days. Wrestling doesn't require 4 consecutive days, so cost shouldn't be legitimate reason to deny the venue.

1 hour ago, JKennedy said:

The cost of any of these arenas should be drastically reduced for KHSAA as they are all part of State Funded Educational Institutions.  To be even more pointed, KHSAA has Rupp Arena for the KY High School Basketball championship Sweet 16 scheduled for 4 days. Wrestling doesn't require 4 consecutive days, so cost shouldn't be legitimate reason to deny the venue.

Remember, the Sweet 16 generates over $1 million in ticket sales. UK Healthcare is also a sponsor which probably offsets a significant chunk of the total price.you really can’t compare the sweet 16 to any other state championship in KY….it is the cash cow and supports many of the other sports.

9 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

Remember, the Sweet 16 generates over $1 million in ticket sales. UK Healthcare is also a sponsor which probably offsets a significant chunk of the total price.you really can’t compare the sweet 16 to any other state championship in KY….it is the cash cow and supports many of the other sports.

It seems the sponsorships have gone down in Wrestling. I remember years ago they would sell sponsorships on top of each scoreboard. At $200 a side that would have been an easy extra $2400. I am sure they could sell them for even more. Seems like there could be more sponsorship opportunities it an arena to help offset those costs. I know we are in a digital age but do they even sell programs any more? That was a huge money grab. Every parent would buy one because their kids names were in it

22 hours ago, JKennedy said:

The cost of any of these arenas should be drastically reduced for KHSAA as they are all part of State Funded Educational Institutions.  To be even more pointed, KHSAA has Rupp Arena for the KY High School Basketball championship Sweet 16 scheduled for 4 days. Wrestling doesn't require 4 consecutive days, so cost shouldn't be legitimate reason to deny the venue.

Yum center and Rupp arena are not part of the Universities. They are private enterprise.    Diddle is part of WKU.