Is there to big of a gap between 216 to 275. Should there be another weight class in between? What do you think?

Is there to big of a gap between 216 to 275. Should there be another weight class in between? What do you think?

Is there to big of a gap between 216 to 275. Should there be another weight class in between? What do you think?

yes, because most are maybe just a little over 215, and way to light for 275.. should be like a 245???? :wink:

I agree I think there should be one at 245 or 250. Middle school stops at 230 and for most of them it is hard to make that big of change.

I agree I think there should be one at 245 or 250. Middle school stops at 230 and for most of them it is hard to make that big of change.

true, we go from 140 to 145, to 152 so way not a middle weight for the bigger guys

Yeah because it turns away alot of kids with natural talent because they may weigh 230 and you tell them they might wrestle someone weighing 275 and they are like "forget that" and leave.

Yeah because it turns away alot of kids with natural talent because they may weigh 230 and you tell them they might wrestle someone weighing 275 and they are like "forget that" and leave.

so true who wants to wrestle someone 40 or 45 heavier then them

Does anyone know if this has been brought up before? That is a 59lb. difference. You do lose a lot of kids because of this.

I'm sure it's been brought up many, many times but the fact is it's hard enough to find big guys that size to be comitted to a sport as hard as wrestling, let alone finding another one about the same size..

I would really like to see it so I don't have to wrestle the 250 guy we have anymore.. He's heavy lol.

That is true I am weighing in at 224 and I can't get a varsity match cause I have to wrestle off a 275 pounder. I think there should be some weight classes in between because if you think about it from 112 to 171 is 10 weight classes in between a 59 pound difference and there is no weight classes in between 215 and 275 which is also a 59 pound difference

I agree with you all. Do we have any coaches that would like to tell us why there is such a big difference or anyone that is in charge of these kind of things?

The powers that be have already addressed this. In the 80's the wt. classes were 167, 185, Hwt (250 maximum)

The 90's the classes changed to 171,189,Hwt (275 maximum)

mid 90's they added the 215 wt class.

The problem is that if you add more wt classes at top then smaller teams will have more problems filling a team. Many already believe that 14 wt. classes are too many.

I am one that believes that the classes need to be changes. We don't need 5 wt. classes between 125-145. I would be all for a wt. class at the top something like this. 175, 190, 210, 230, Hwt (Ulimited or 300)

However I think you will find out that the better Hwt's weigh about 230 or less. They also enjoy wrestling those that weigh 275, they are slower and can't move well.

anyone that is in charge of these kind of things?

The National Federation of state High School Associations is in charge of Wt classes. They survey the states and wrestling teams to try and find the best wt. classes that are feesable.

I believe the web site is WWW.nfhs.org

That is true I am weighing in at 224 and I can't get a varsity match cause I have to wrestle off a 275 pounder. I think there should be some weight classes in between because if you think about it from 112 to 171 is 10 weight classes in between a 59 pound difference and there is no weight classes in between 215 and 275 which is also a 59 pound difference

I would suggest losing the 9 pounds to get down to 215. That isn't that much weight. Is there also a 215 pounder that you would have to wrestle off??? I would take my chances in wrestling off the 215, which is closer to your weight anyways, rather than dealing with a guy that potentially weighs 50 pounds more than you.

Grappler of Old, you know our state champ weighs 275? So did the runner up, so actually I think it's the heavier guys normally win if they have a bit of technique and balance.

If school is canceled on Friday, how many team would not be allowed to wrestle on Saturday :?:

It is not about losing the wieght to get to 215 it is that your school needs a HWT, so that is what you are going to wrestle. I believe at 250 to 275 there is not much wrestling. It is to see who can land on top of the other and hold them there. If you are small you can still do the move's and toss. I beleive some Hwt's stay away because of the 59lb. difference. So wouldn't it be better to change some of the small wieght class to get more of the bigger kids interested?

Grappler of Old' date=' you know our state champ weighs 275? So did the runner up, so actually I think it's the heavier guys normally win if they have a bit of technique and balance.[/quote']

I'm not disputing that penguin, I know that the last 5 or so years the state champ has been over 250. What I am saying is that there have been sevearal Hwts in the last few years that have been successful even though they are very light.

They chose Hwt, not because there was a 215 on their team they could not defeat, but because they could handle the 250+ wrestlers easier.

A couple of examples.

2005

Keith Lageman Con 3rd (I believe he was around 240)

Andrew Domico Sk (I believe was around 220)

2004

Nathan Pulliam SO 5th (I don't remember him being all that big)

2003

Nathan Pulliam SO 4th (same as above maybe even lighter)

Daniel Blevins Hol 6th (I beilieve was about 215-220)

2002

Wes Duke Trin 3rd (I don't remember him being very big)

Andre Bradford East. 6th (I'm pretty sure he wasn't much over 230)

Craig Carter Fair 7th (I don't remember him being much over 230 either)

2001

Dan Olberding Dix 3rd (Around 230)

2000

Dan Olberding Dix 2nd (Even smaller than 2001)

I'm sure I missed a few or some of these were heavier than I remember, but the point is that 40-50 lbs at hwt is not like 40-50 lbs at 140.

I do however think there should be a remodeling of the classes and have a couple more heavier classes.

grappler-of-old, I disagree that most of these boy's "chose" to be HWT's. Some are doing it because there team need's a HWT. I know my son would rather be doing 215, but he is a team player and will wreste what his coach wants him too. Out of all the names you posted not on of them got State Champ, is that not what these boy's are wrestling for. Is to have that title? Not to come in 3rd or 6th place.

I know for a fact that 3 of them could have wrestled 215 on their teams but choose HWt because they could win more matches. All three of them made it to the semi-finals, one of them made it to the finals.

Many, many wresters undetstand that they will not become a state champ. Many have more realistic goals of being a state placer. Most good coaches goal is to make each wrestler the best they can be. Sometimes that just means being a 500 wrestler.

this is an old topic but i was looking at it and i say leave it how it is because you know how much longer a tournament would be if there was a 15th weight class

i dont really mind wrestling the big guys very much it doesnt bother me. I like the fact that there are not that many HWT's who are fast so the ones that are slow i know i can get. Just have to stay off my back cause at that point there is no hope for you if one of those guys gets on you.

I chose to wrestle heavyweight because i felt i could do better there, despite weighing in at 212 on the final day of state.  i would wrestle 215 at dual meets if it meant our team had a chance to win the dual, but knew when it came state time i wanted to be heavyweight.  It was always the smaller heavyweights i had trouble with, and usually could beat the big ones

i think there should be 15 classes with

103

112

119

125

130

135

140

145

152

160

171

184

198

230

285

However I think you will find out that the better Hwt's weigh about 230 or less.  They also enjoy wrestling those that weigh 275, they are slower and can't move well.

I am one of those heavy weights i am only about 225 and i have to use my lightness to an advantage and i feel confident with it

i think there should be 15 classes with

103

112

119

125

130

135

140

145

152

160

171

184

198

230

285

i think that these should be the weight classes not because it will take away some of the HWTs but becuase each weigh ins im never under 280 and i would feel really bad if i hurt a kid that weighed 220 like last year i weighed 284 and josh young weighed 202 and thats 82LBS extra that feel on him and that couldnt have felt good

15 weight classes are way to many.  For many schools 14 wt. classes are to many.

I have wanted to add a heavier wt. class for years.  My idea is this.

103

112

119

126

132

138

145

152

160

171

189

210

230

285

Still 14 wt classes just more spread out.

It is a combination of the older wt. classes from the 70's and 80's with todays wt. classes.

15 weight classes are way to many.  For many schools 14 wt. classes are to many.

I have wanted to add a heavier wt. class for years.  My idea is this.

103

112

119

126

132

138

145

152

160

171

189

210

230

285

Still 14 wt classes just more spread out.

It is a combination of the older wt. classes from the 70's and 80's with todays wt. classes.

I'm not big on HWT but I have seen some of those kids that are really big wrestle someone that is only like 215 or something, it just seems crazy to me. But whatever.

i agree they should make a 250 but the reason they dont is because look at how many schools already dont have heavyweights. if u make another weight class up there its gonna be even harder to feel all the weightclasses

are there more heavy weights around the state that weigh over 250 or under i am pretty sure the answer is over

15 weight classes are way to many.  For many schools 14 wt. classes are to many.

I have wanted to add a heavier wt. class for years.  My idea is this.

103

112

119

126

132

138

145

152

160

171

189

210

230

285

Still 14 wt classes just more spread out.

if they make these weight classes i think it would be easy to fill because alot of kids that weigh around 230 dont wrestle becuase they dont want to drop to 215 or wrestle some one that weighs 285

It is a combination of the older wt. classes from the 70's and 80's with todays wt. classes.

still though thats 210 to 230. why should someone who weighs 231 have to wrestle someone who weighs 285?

1.  Becuase there are not that many high school kids that weigh over 230. 

2.  We cannot have 20-25 wt. classes. 

3.  When you are that big the weight difference is not all that much.

I don't believe that the weight difference is that big of a deal because if you are a light heavy weight you can use your quickness as an advantage.

15 weight classes are way to many.  For many schools 14 wt. classes are to many.

I have wanted to add a heavier wt. class for years.  My idea is this.

103

112

119

126

132

138

145

152

160

171

189

210

230

285

Still 14 wt classes just more spread out.

It is a combination of the older wt. classes from the 70's and 80's with todays wt. classes.

I like those weight classes.  That's a good idea.  I would maybe take it 1 step further and consider getting rid of 103....before i get slammed by all the 103 lbers & their parents, I got nothing against the little fellas...but a lot of them are younger than 9th grade and the vast majority of them are 10th grade and below.  This is h.s. wrestling, to me if we are filling this weight class with a substantial amount of middle school aged kids, it's not a legitimate h.s. weight class and should be dropped.

     We already dropped the 98 pound wt. class.  The weights use to be 98 then 105.

     As you said there are many 9th and 10th graders at this wt. class.  The reason KY has so many middle schoolers in that wt. class is because of the number of wrestlers in KY.  I'm not sure that other states have the same problem, especially the bigger states, OH, PA, CA. 

     I think we would loose a lot of kids if we got rid of this wt. class.  (You are also assuming all programs have middle school programs) I'm sure that there is still more than 30% of the high school teams that do not have middle school programs.

         As you said there are many 9th and 10th graders at this wt. class.  The reason KY has so many middle schoolers in that wt. class is because of the number of wrestlers in KY.  I'm not sure that other states have the same problem, especially the bigger states, OH, PE, CA. 

What state is PE. lol  :-D  Pennsylvania is PA.  Is there another "P" state

     We already dropped the 98 pound wt. class.  The weights use to be 98 then 105.

     As you said there are many 9th and 10th graders at this wt. class.  The reason KY has so many middle schoolers in that wt. class is because of the number of wrestlers in KY.  I'm not sure that other states have the same problem, especially the bigger states, OH, PE, CA. 

     I think we would loose a lot of kids if we got rid of this wt. class.  (You are also assuming all programs have middle school programs) I'm sure that there is still more than 30% of the high school teams that do not have middle school programs.

They dropped 98 & 105 & added 103.  Not sure about PA or CA, but in Oh you aren't allowed to compete in varsity sports until you are in H.S....if they allowed it, I'm sure some schools would have 8th grade 103 lbers.  The only thing i base this on is that it seems like there are a lot of pre-h.s. kids in the 103 lbs weight class.  If that is the case, it does not seem like a legitimate h.s. weight class to me.  If that is not the case, then I take it back.  Looking at the khsaa website, for the past 3 years, here's the breakdown of grades:

Grade    Count

7 10

8 7

9 36

10 33

11 8

12 2

To me, this just indicates that it's barely a h.s. weight class.  Over 1/2 your kids are 9th grade and below.  

I agree with the removal but it was funny how you say it like 9th graders aren't in highschool.  :-P

Thanks CC I missed that one  :-D but I fixed it.  I'm not that smart and spell check did not catch it.

PP:  Even if only 1/2 the kids are in high school, what happens to those kids? They probably end up quiting wrestling and we loose potential future wrestlers. 

    Also in some of those cases where an 8th or a 7th made it to the state tourney, there may have been a 9th or 10th grader behind them.  You are also not taking into consideration those who did not make it to state. 

    I have not looked at the data, but I'll bet that most of these non highschoolers came from big programs that have feeder programs.  They probably beat out 9 and 10th graders at some of the other schools with smaller programs. 

PP:  Even if only 1/2 the kids are in high school, what happens to those kids? They probably end up quiting wrestling and we loose potential future wrestlers. 

How about JV?  The vast majority of varsity athletes in other sports are not 9th grade and below.  The 103 lbs class has a majority of kids in grades 7-9.  I would guess the majority of h.s. aged kids are somewhere between 120-160.  This is where you spread the weight classes out, and took a spot out of that area.  (today there is 7 weight classes between 125-160..in your weight classes, you have 6) Yet you left in the 103 lbs class where there are a majority of 7-9th kids.  That doesn't seem right to me. 

CC - i realize 9th graders are in h.s., but to have such a large portion of a weight class represented at the state level by 9th grade and below seems weak. 

     Also in some of those cases where an 8th or a 7th made it to the state tourney, there may have been a 9th or 10th grader behind them.  You are also not taking into consideration those who did not make it to state. 

Actually i did consider that, and I figure it's a wash.  There are probably plenty of 7th & 8th graders that are wrestling varsity that don't make it to state because they lost to a 9th or 10th grader.  In fact, that scenario seems way more likely than a h.s. kid losing a spot to a m.s. kid.

     I have not looked at the data, but I'll bet that most of these non highschoolers came from big programs that have feeder programs.  They probably beat out 9 and 10th graders at some of the other schools with smaller programs. 

You may be right there, I don't know.  If that is the case, and since you ALWAYS make a point to bring up "the big programs" then you should support what I'm saying.  Here is 1 of the 14 weight classes, and you at a smaller school have your h.s. kid getting beat out by a m.s. aged kid at one of the bigger programs.  If you think that is ok, then maybe it's all in my head.  I just feel this is a h.s. varsity sport, and the weight classes should be chosen to benefit the majority of h.s. kids.  Keeping a 103 lbs class and cutting out a class between 125-160 (avg h.s. kid) doesn't seem right.

They dropped 98 & 105 & added 103.  Not sure about PA or CA, but in Oh you aren't allowed to compete in varsity sports until you are in H.S....if they allowed it, I'm sure some schools would have 8th grade 103 lbers.  The only thing i base this on is that it seems like there are a lot of pre-h.s. kids in the 103 lbs weight class.  If that is the case, it does not seem like a legitimate h.s. weight class to me.  If that is not the case, then I take it back.  Looking at the khsaa website, for the past 3 years, here's the breakdown of grades:

Grade    Count

7 10

8 7

9 36

10 33

11 8

12 2

To me, this just indicates that it's barely a h.s. weight class.  Over 1/2 your kids are 9th grade and below.  

theres 3 seniors jarvis, badgett, taylor south

How every they decide to change the weight class's if they do. There needs to be a middle HWT class. The gap from 216-285 is to large. I understand it's hard for a small school to fill all the weight class's, but the national high school wrestling association needs to figure it out. With coach's input it can be solved. There can be a different scoring system in place too deal with these smaller schools. I do not know all the dynamics involved, but issue can be resolved.

You guys are talking about how there should be a middle HWT class then saying to do away with 103, there were far more highschool 103s then middle school on the chart someone. Whys it fair someone weighing 100 pounds has to wrestle someone 112. In heavyweight it doesn't really matter. How many heavyweights throw, I'm not talking about head locking and falling I'm talking about actually chuckin someone where they'll get hurt.  There are no heavyweights that are like 230 pounds of pure muscle if you're under 230 you could cut to 215.  If you're doing it for the team, don't complain there are plenty of kids that could wrestle 140 easy having to wrestle 171 for the team.

I imagine that the logic for the weight categories is based on the statistics of the number of kids at that age in those weight ranges.  Based on the distributions today, they are saying that 71% (10 of 14 weight classes) of boys weigh 160 pounds or less and 29% weigh more than that.  If, based on the fact that Americans are generally getting bigger and bigger each year, this distribution is not representative of the population of students, it should be changed.  Perhaps the entire range should be shifted upwards by 5 or 10 pounds.  That may be why you see so many of the lighter weight wrestlers wrestling at the high school level while they are still in middle school.

i think the weight classes should be:

107

115

122

130

135

140

145

155

165

175

190

210

235

285

PP-

Are you serious?  JV?  How many programs actually have a JV program (more than just 7 wt. classes)?  About the same that have a Middle school program.  And if you put these 90 something kids in JV 112 that makes it a huge wt. class. This is another example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Getting rid of the 103 wt. class will cause many wrestlers to quit wrestling because there is not a spot for them.  You must have never been a light weight.  I was until my Jr. year.  about 90 lbs Fr. about 100 Soph. and finally 115 my Jr. and Sr. year. According to you I should not have wrestled until my Jr. year. (Not that I worked hard at it when I was in high school) I actually regret not working hard to get better.

At for getting rid of the middle wt. classes.  I think that many of the kids are looking at how close they are to the next wt. class and dropping down again.  By making the wt. classes so close together has not hindered wt. loss but has encouraged it.  This is why I want to get rid of a middle wt. class. 

PP-

Are you serious?  JV?  How many programs actually have a JV program (more than just 7 wt. classes)?  About the same that have a Middle school program.  And if you put these 90 something kids in JV 112 that makes it a huge wt. class. This is another example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Yes I'm serious.  You were the one who made a big deal about "what about these guys"  I suggested JV.  You are always complaining about the rich getting richer etc.  There are schools all around this state that struggle for support for wrestling.  Those coaches somehow make it work.  How do any of them make it work?  How about asking them sometime.  Ask Mike Thomas at Moore how he's turned that program around...has a solid m.s. program going, probably a decent JV. 

Getting rid of the 103 wt. class will cause many wrestlers to quit wrestling because there is not a spot for them.  You must have never been a light weight.  I was until my Jr. year.  about 90 lbs Fr. about 100 Soph. and finally 115 my Jr. and Sr. year. According to you I should not have wrestled until my Jr. year. (Not that I worked hard at it when I was in high school) I actually regret not working hard to get better.

Guess what ancient one....kids are getting bigger.  You're putting words in my mouth "according to you"  No, i never said that back in the 1970's there should not have been a 98 lbs weight class.  I'm saying that today....with the majority of kids in the 103 lbs weight class being 9th grade and below, it is barely a h.s. weight class.  In my opinion, you should have the majority of weight classes suitable for the majority of h.s. kids.  Just like there should not be a 350 lbs weight class.  Why?  Because there aren't a lot of h.s. aged kids rolling around weighing 350 lbs.  I don't get why you are struggling with this concept here.

At for getting rid of the middle wt. classes.  I think that many of the kids are looking at how close they are to the next wt. class and dropping down again.  By making the wt. classes so close together has not hindered wt. loss but has encouraged it.  This is why I want to get rid of a middle wt. class. 

The middle weights are close together because that is where the majority of h.s. aged kids are.  Kids cutting weight or too much weight is a seperate issue altogether and should not be addressed by taking away weight classes from where the majority of h.s. aged kids are at - the middle weights.  Getting rid of a weight class there makes absolutely no sense.  Kids are going to cut from 140 to 135....just like kids are going to cut from 112 to 103.  Kids will cut weight....it's a fact.  Make the weight classes based on the average weights of h.s. aged kids.

    Truth be told I could care less how many wt. classes there are.  Many people however do not want many more than we already have.  I was trying to get the best of both the worlds.

    My goal would be two things. 

1.  Have as many kids compete as possible (If that means a wt. class every 5 pounds so be it.  start with 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 150, 155, 160, 165, 170, 175, 180, 185, 190, 200, 205, 210, 215, 220, ect. ect. But you can see the problem here.  It would take to long to run a tourney and some people will complain that schools cannot fill the wt. classes.  Keeping kids from competing (removing the lowest or hightest wt class) is different than teams placement in a tournament.  The individual at a small program can still win the tourney, and I believe it is an individual sport anyway and you get more pride out of the individual win than the team win.

2.  Keep kids safe and healthy.  Kids today are not bigger they are just more obese on the average.  Isn't that what the nation is trying to fight today?  Child obesity. 

Kids trying to lose wt. like we did (in ancient times) is unhealthy and unsafe.  I know if the wt. classes were closer together back in my day some of my wrestling friends would have lost a couple more lbs to make the lower wt. 

KHSAA/NWFA have made great strides in improving this.  I believe that the NWFA should increase the lowest % of body fat to 8%.  I may be wrong but I thought that an average athlete had a body fat around 10% boys and 15% girls.  (Where is IPEA? he seems to have all the statistics on this stuff)

     KHSAA/NWFA have made great strides in improving this.  I believe that the NWFA should increase the lowest % of body fat to 8%.  I may be wrong but I thought that an average athlete had a body fat around 10% boys and 15% girls.  (Where is IPEA? he seems to have all the statistics on this stuff)

The average may have 10%, but making the limit too close to that really limits the athlete who is truly in shape.  Now you may argue that this kid shouldn't be cutting weight, but we shouldn't arbitrarily raise the %.  I would be more pleased to see the test administered more consistently and accurately.  I've looked at the alpha tests for some kids.  And I have a hard time believing some of the body fat measurements.