Would you rather win your matches by pins or techs?

  When I wrestled I didn't even follow the score while wrestling.  I figured it didn't matter as long as I caught the guy eventually and pinned. 

Some guys wrestle the whole match never attempting to turn a guy but rather looking for cheap tilt points to stay ahead till the end.  Is this the new way of the sport.  When I think of wrestling I think of pinning a guy as the ultimate reward.

Has the pin lost its luster, is it not as important these days?  I know pins are worth more points but the more guys I coach, the more I see them not thinking pin but just trying to get by with a point or two more till the end.  I understand in some cases this is necessary but there are guys out there that wrestle every match this way. 

What are your thoughts on this............?

I would rather win by pin. But either way pin or tech it is a win!! :mrgreen:

i could care less  just wrestle hard all the time!

Most of the time i go for a pec (pin while you tech them) so i guess it seems as though im goin for a tech until i get a twelve point lead then i go for a pin

Another GREAT topic for kyw.com.

It depends. I always want a pin for the points but sometimes it's nice to know that you can just absolutly run a clinic on somebody.  :-D

pin because more team points

Unfortunately archibaldhumperdink wrestling has made the turn to tilts and tech pins. 

Look at the changes in the rules over the last 20 years.  20 years ago (when I wrestled) you could not choose neutral in the second or third period.  There were no optional starts, you had to wrestle on the mat with your opponent.  Or at least start that way.

We also did not have tech pins. 

The way stalling is now called on the top wrestler the bottom wrestler does not need to do much.

Today we call stalling when the top wrestler continues to break down their opponent.  We don't warn the bottom wrestler for not trying to get up or score a reversal. 

I like the pin.  It is the ultimate goal of wrestling.  I know you can't pin everyone but you should be trying to pin them.  Tilts that have no chance of pinning your opponent are starting to dominate the sport and IMO is changing the sport. Is the change for the good or bad, depends on your feelings, as a purest its not a good thing.  But I'm stuck in the Dino age anyway.

I know what you are all saying but i think trends are moving towards setting kids up for college where the the tilt,turns, and riding time are the focus, so i think our kids are trying to improve those areas so they will be looked at for college.

It depends. I always want a pin for the points but sometimes it's nice to know that you can just absolutly run a clinic on somebody.  :-D

it is nice to know that your just that much better then someone, but im just happy with a win, tech or pin

once i get into the 2nd period and the kid is absolutely horrible then i go for the tech. it's more embarrassing. but at the start i look to pin every opponent.

Get rid of the tech and beat them by 100.  A pin proves nothing.  Beat someone by 50 and the kid will walk off the mat and think man... that guy could have no arms and legs and still beat me by 20.  You pin a kid in the 1st period and he'll walk off saying.... I can do better.  Chew em up and spit em out.  You will also get MVW's.  People will come to watch you.  You will get in better shape.  The sport will grow.

Get rid of the tech and beat them by 100.  A pin proves nothing.  Beat someone by 50 and the kid will walk off the mat and think man... that guy could have no arms and legs and still beat me by 20.  You pin a kid in the 1st period and he'll walk off saying.... I can do better.  Chew em up and spit em out.  You will also get MVW's.  People will come to watch you.  You will get in better shape.  The sport will grow.

well said

well said

this would be fine if wrestling was all takedowns if that happened people would forget about backpoints comepletely its not a good idea!.....THE WHOLE IDEA OF TECHING SOMEONE ISNT TAKING THEM DOWN....you have to score form ALL positions and cant do this by teching someone unless you tilt which will help you in college!

Get rid of the tech and beat them by 100.  A pin proves nothing.  Beat someone by 50 and the kid will walk off the mat and think man... that guy could have no arms and legs and still beat me by 20.  You pin a kid in the 1st period and he'll walk off saying.... I can do better.  Chew em up and spit em out.  You will also get MVW's.  People will come to watch you.  You will get in better shape.  The sport will grow.

So you are also in favor of College football teams running up the score on their opponents. 

Pins are what people come to see.  Do you watch boxing for the decision or for a knockout.  Do you watch baseball for the moving of players over or the home run.  Do you watch football for the field goal or the touchdown? 

You should not be trying to get MVW's.  The wrestlers that are feared are those that destroy you by pinning you and you can't do anything about it.  Finish the match and leave no doubt in your opponents mind.  The let em up take em down has hurt wrestling.  I hear so many people complain about this.  This is what the Tech pin and tilts have given us.

The one aspect in wrestling that makes this sport great is the sportsmanship of it.  embarrassing your opponent is unsportsmanlike, if you are trying to pin someone you won't score 20-30 points.

Yes.  Run the score up.  I would want your best.  Not your pity.  If your 50 points better than I am then it's unsportsmanlike for you not to beat me that bad.  I did wrestle for the MVW.  Wasn;t enough to win my weight class.  I wanted to be the best.  Aim high.  Takedown's are the only way to wrestle in my book.  However my book is not well read.   

  Takedown's are the only way to wrestle in my book.  

How ironic that you name in 3/4 nelson.  Which is neither a takedown or a tilt. 

Shouldn't you be called "sweep single" or "firemancarry" or "lateraldrop".  :?

HA!  You never did a standing 3/4 for a takedown?

It does make me sad you said people complain about takedowns.  I am lost where this sport is headed.

I guess it's good conner is in the state that is then. 

    I've never done a 3/4 for a takedown.  (I can't imagine how you would)

    I have done a front quarter headlock for a takedown.  Maybe this is the same thing just different name. 

    They were not complaining about the takedowns, just the idea of letting them up then taking them down again, over and over again.  Like I said people want to see a pin.

     I've never done a 3/4 for a takedown.  (I can't imagine how you would)

     I have done a front quarter headlock for a takedown.  Maybe this is the same thing just different name. 

     They were not complaining about the takedowns, just the idea of letting them up then taking them down again, over and over again.  Like I said people want to see a pin.

Grappler of old what is your back ground in wrestling what high school you wrestle for?

Grappler of old what is your back ground in wrestling what high school you wrestle for?

My background is and was (a wrestler and coach), and papa of a wrestler now. 

As to where.  Sorry Mr. Fuller but that is information best kept a secret.

I did however wrestle in Nky in the 1980's

And just to make things interesting we (you and I) have talked before.

well you hate my wrestling and i think i know who you are but i thought you only ran cross country

like it or not high school wrestling is moving closer and closer to freestyle wrestling.  

Before we know it we will spend 90% of our time on our feet.  Pins will be a thing of the past and wrestlers will be trying to get those 15 points as fast as they can.  

I like a good takedown person, but you have to admit nothing gets you more hyped, than hearing the ref smack the mat for a pin.   Kinda gets your blood flowing being able to look down into the face of your opponent when the ref smacks the mat for the pin.

I've always found it uneventful when recieving a tech pin.  I think that tech pinning an opponent is probably easier than pinning my opponent.  

A one dimensional wrestler can tech pin his opponent, as long as he can wrestle on his feet.  Just look at the kid from Eastern, (Davis I think) A first year wrestler that was good at 1 or 2 moves on his feet.  Not very exciting.

well you hate my wrestling and i think i know who you are but i thought you only ran cross country

Cross country are you kidding me.  I absolutely hate running.  Did enough of that just trying to make weight.  I can't believe people actually run for fun.  :-o

well you hate my wrestling

      I think those are Strong words.  I don't hate your wrestling I do however think your style can be greatly improved.  I keep watching and waiting for you to pull off the great move.  It never seems to happen. 

    You could be one of the great ones if you only took a chance.  Take Byrd for example.  He goes for it, ya gotta go for the legs.  drop step, drop step, drop step. 

    contrary to popular believe HWT's can shoot and be successful at it.  Your big and strong and quick enough to do it.  Mix in a fireman and a throw every once in awhile and your more than dangerous, and you will be standing on top of the podium at the end of the season.

Pin is the ultimate win.  Plus if you are trying to tech you waste time and have the possibility of slipping up and getting stuck, and it can and does happen.  Also I agree with grappler of old, fuller you could be nearly unstoppable if you would just be willing to lay it out on the line

I think you should always go out for the pin and end it quick that way you wont get caught and pinned yourself

The better the wrestler's are the less turns and pins you will see.  At any level.  The only thing that remains in every level is takedowns.  The wrestler that can take down the other should win.  Olympic's are usally won with one takedown.  Freestyle teaches a cheap roll.  High school has moved and will continue to move closer to freestyle.  If you are a wrestler or have kids that wrestle, they NEED to understand this.  Takedowns WIN.  Troy Cole.

    Since this is post 666 I need to make this as devilish as possible.

    Troy now I understand where you are comming from. You were one of the originators of let em up take em down.  I hated it then and hate it now.  I just wanted one time for someone to not stand up when you let them up and make you wrestle them on the mat.  (even though I know you still would have whooped them)

    As for Olympic style and high school.  There should be a difference.  Much like collage basketball and NBA.  Watching the NBA is terrible, its a one dimensional game.  Collage basketball is multidimensional.

    Freestyle and Olympic style wrestling is one dimensional, where high school is multidimensional.  And I personally prefer to watch the multidimensional wrestler.  Cooper would never have defeated Metzker in the finals if Metzker was not one dimensional.

    When I watch a match I want to see blood, sweat and tears.  I want to see someone in pain, being forced to move in a direction he does not want to be in.  Not someone sweeping the leg time after time, getting the takedown and then letting him up without getting in the opponents face.

There is pretty much a counter to any move or style in wrestling.  Almost anyway.  If you are a strong neutral wrestler and I am effective from top, well then when its my turn to chose a starting position then of course I will chose top and turn for the pin(Ideally anyway).  So then take downs mean nothing if you can't get up to take me down.  Eventually you are going to have to work a pin.  I could be terrible at take downs and still survive a match due to the fact we chose starting positions and eventually I get my chance at my strength. You can't stink at top and bottom and survive 2 periods.  

The idea is to be a well rounded wrestler and work on all three parts of the sport..top bottom and neutral.  There will always be someone out there who's style will counter yours.  Thats why you need to not focus on JUST take downs.  You can not short change the sport.  It will always catch up to you.  Work to develop into the total wrestler not the total take down machine. Just one opinion.  We all have em.

If the goal here is to determine what is better to watch then I agree.  Neutral, top, and bottom is much more pleasing for the fan in the stands.

It's great to watch the bottom man lay around on the mat.  No hand control.  Lazy.  Then get roller over and get pinned.  A pin has more to do with the bottom wrestler not moving than the top working his stuff.

If the goal is to make better KY wrestlers then go takedowns.

You can compete with any state's wrestlers.

If I do not have enough heart, speed, determination to earn an escape when you are on top the 2nd or 3rd period then I do not deserve to win.  Explode.  Get out.  Go takedowns.  If you can't get the takedown then you will not win with a good smart wrestler.  As far a the fan in the stands.  At least you get a good hard 6 mins of action.  No better conditioned wrestler than a takedown king.  If a fan of wrestling does not enjoy that then something is wrong with that fan.  Block a shot with your face.  You'll see blood.  Wrestle all out for 6 min your see sweat.  5:50 left in the match you'll see one kid dead on feet get taken down to his back and get pinned.  But the match was over 15 seconds into the match when the takedown king scored his 1st takendown.

ps.  if they don't get up they still get the escape.  Then walk around him and score your two. 

Other sports watch tapes.  The goal there is pick out the other teams weaknesses.  They then set a game plan to exploit the weaknesses.  If you can take a kid down you found his weakness.  Exploit it for 6 min.

To top it all off, your set for the more one dimentional wrestling venues.

3/4

Did you happen to watch the best wrestle 2x NCAA champion going for his third straight get turned and tilted for 2 pt. nearfall and lose?  Johnny Hendricks OSU.  I was very successful at takedowns in hs and college and I would have done much better at the collegiate level if I were better at pinning. 

A dual meet is exciting because of pins not because Conner whipped Holmes in each match 45-20, people would walk away. 

No I did not get to see that.  However, it sounds like he did not build up a 6 point lead.

Did you see the 141 lb final? Lang got the first takedown and then the slaughter began, on the mat not on the feet.

That IS my point.  If you get a takedown don't wrestle on the mat.  Nothing good happens to you when you on the mat.  If you keep working and moving you will get out.  Get hand control.  You can't stop when your on the bottom.  Escapes and reversals.  Heart, speed, desire.  Get out.  Two examples of not wrestling smart.  I do not want to change anyones mind.  I would like to see KY wrestlers do better.  Do you think Lang is not saying man I should have just gone takedowns.  All the time Davis spent drill pins could have been wasted had he had a better game plan.  How many pins in the finals?  How many tilts?  How many takedowns?

I looked. 2 pins.  20%.  125 5-2   

                                133 1-0   

                                141 7-0 (zero... no takedown for the loser)

                                149 3-2

                                157 2-1     

                                165 pin!!!!!  semi he won 6-4 quarters 4-2

                                174 13-1     

                                184  9-1   

                                197  12-0 

                                285  pin!!!  semi 13-3 

Now how many of these were won with a takedown(s)?     

3/4,  the king of takedowns was shut out.  3 min 1st period, over 5 minutes of a 7 minute match was on the feet.  He lost because he couldn't get off the bottom and was tilted. Many of these matches are won on the mat, not the feet.  Take riding time into account.  I agree that wrestling on the feet is much more exciting, however, two equally talented wrestlers on their feet, the winner will come from the best mat wrestler.  As far as the Lang match in the NCAA's, He is very dominate on top, he again lost the takedown battle, mentally broken and was turned like a door knob.

Pinning is much more exciting by far. 

in my opinion you cant say which is better for who you are wrestling until you are wrestling that person. if that person can't stand up, then run top work. if he has no balance, run takedowns. its not about what you are better at, you shouldn't have a weakness. wreslting is a well rounded sport, you cant win with just a double leg and no stand up. or just a stand up and no double leg. or just leg rides, spiral rides, claw rides, whatever you run from top, if you cant survive on your feet or the bottem. it's that simple. its as people have been saying, one deminsional wrestlers only get so far. ther are three demensions to wrestling, learn them all, pratice them all, use them all. thats how champions win championships.

This is a very interesting descusion. Looks like i'll put a few cents in...

Pin, or tech.... humm...

Thoughs who know me, know that i only pin to win. That is the goal. Through out my last season i felt a lil bored when i go into a match trying to pin, and i get it done in the first round all da time. But the basis of wrestling is to pin. That is the bottem line. I can see how others say they would rather prove that they are better by teching people... (earlier i heard something like "run a clinic on a kid" or something of the sort)

But! the first thing that you do after the takedown, or during the takedown should always be a pinning combination. Yeah, so i understand that a tech fall can make a big statement, but tilts, and turns are not the answer. These are stratigic wrestling moves first designed as desperation to win the match win there is nothing eles you can do. Now kids use them over and over and over to run the score up easy. I see some guys hold one basic, simple, no-brainer tilt... and not let it go untill they advance themselves with it for at least 9 points. This mean nothing. It just like staling while scoring. In my opinion, useing cheap turns and tilts means one thing... YA CANT PIN YOUR OPPONENT! and for many wrestlers this is true.

If your gonna tech... there is one way to do it that realy means something. Thats takedowns! takedowns make the match an even fight, and people line up to watch the match that takes place on the feet.

While takedowns usualy prove the better wrestler, the pin requires the whole package. To me the best bragging rights come of the pin. When your opponent is absolutly helpless, and it is made appearent that he is unable to continue wrestling because he is STUCK ON HIS BACK.... he becomes the B!%#&...

Pining combinations are beautiful. Give your ref a break and pin for god sake.

I think it really depends on how the situation on the mat is. The Travis Sullivan pin in the finals was EXCITING. But watching kids you already know will win, tech someone, is pretty boring. But then again that is a double edged sword. A lot of people think that if you are a good wrestler and people come to see you and you pin someone in like 10 seconds, its a waste of a trip because they didnt even really get to see you wrestle. A tech or a pin are really only exciting if they are unexpected.

Look i love the sport of wrestling, and i now coach it, and never once as a wrestler did i want to on the mat longer than i could! First thing on my mind was get the first takedown then pin. Honestly how many of us can say know that is done and over with that we loved being on that mat wrestling in singlets with other guys??? I cant say i enjoyed it. People dont come to watch spectacular performances they come to watch spectacular matches. I dont think i ever tech a single person in my life, well maybe one but i dont remember it. On the other hand i could tell you all of my pins(not like i had too many of those either). Pins are like homeruns in this sport, which is why they give MOST pins least time awards and not Most points scored in tournament awards. And as they opposing wrestler i would much rather get pinned than tech. Lucky i never was tech but i cant imagining that sitting well in my stomach.

I'll admit it. I like to tech people. But we're starting to sound like MMA fighters. We keep talking about how "exciting" a tech or a pin is for the audience but we forgot one thing...THAT DOESN'T MATTER! Neither one of the two is any better. You might preffer to do one or the other. Maybe you even HAVE TO DO one or the other in a points race against another team. But the bottom line is a win is a win. A tech fall is no better than a pin is no better than a major decision is no better than a decision. One might give you more bragging rights or may make you appear very dominate. However you look at it, a win is a win.

I'll admit it. I like to tech people. But we're starting to sound like MMA fighters. We keep talking about how "exciting" a tech or a pin is for the audience but we forgot one thing...THAT DOESN'T MATTER! Neither one of the two is any better. You might preffer to do one or the other. Maybe you even HAVE TO DO one or the other in a points race against another team. But the bottom line is a win is a win. A tech fall is no better than a pin is no better than a major decision is no better than a decision. One might give you more bragging rights or may make you appear very dominate. However you look at it, a win is a win.

I couldnt have said this better mahself. (because i didnt say it at all)

This deffinately deserves an applaud karma! show mah boi some love!

I'll admit it. I like to tech people. But we're starting to sound like MMA fighters. We keep talking about how "exciting" a tech or a pin is for the audience but we forgot one thing...THAT DOESN'T MATTER! Neither one of the two is any better. You might preffer to do one or the other. Maybe you even HAVE TO DO one or the other in a points race against another team. But the bottom line is a win is a win. A tech fall is no better than a pin is no better than a major decision is no better than a decision. One might give you more bragging rights or may make you appear very dominate. However you look at it, a win is a win.

Atually a pin is better because you are awarded more points.  That is just one way it is better.  Someone earlier in this discussion mentioned how they would rather be pinned than teched.  Well if I am teched by a take down machine then I would think...Well if I could have got a hold of him maybe I'd have a chance.  If I get stuck there is no doubt that I just had it handed to me and there's nothing I could do about it.  I am sure someone will counter the arguement but that is the bottom line.  If you are a better wrestler then you need not rely on one aspect of the game.  If you think college coaches like to see techs and take downs, try dominating  your opponent in every aspect of the sport and see how they like that.  I am sure college football coaches don't look at a guy and say wow that guy can really run fast but he can't really catch Oh well...He is so fast I will make him my starting Wide receiver.  NO you must display all that a Wide reciever needs to succeed at the next level before they will take a chance on you.  You would need to be able to catch run fast , run correct routes etc.. Point is you should not be one demensional.  Take downs, pins, you should be able to work them both.  You are setting your self up to eventually fail if you do otherwise.   

Archibaldpumperdink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...........bruh,  ...  ...... ........ .. ......... .... .................. ur not cool.

lol

Yea I know. I think i'm gonna punch Archibauld in the chest next time I see him.  :-D

Well said archie.  I've got your back.  :evil:

I think I would rather be spanked!

WTF?!?!?!?! haha. I don't even want to know.

Yea I know. I think i'm gonna punch Archibauld in the chest next time I see him.  :-D

Archibaldpumperdink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...........bruh,  ...  ...... ........ .. ......... .... .................. ur not cool.

lol

Danger....you could break your hand hitting on rocks(my chest)...carefull you have had enough hand injuries for one year.  And hect....i mean titan 140  you are the coolest guy I know.  What happened to the hair cut though.  That was extra cool.LOL

Danger....you could break your hand hitting on rocks(my chest)...carefull you have had enough hand injuries for one year.  And hect....i mean titan 140  you are the coolest guy I know.  What happened to the hair cut though.  That was extra cool.LOL

You just made Hect...I mean...Titan140 mad. lol.

That wasn't my intention.  I really liked the dew.  I wonder if he even knows that he knows me.  Any way, I think we both agreed that the pin was the way to go anyhow, which was the topic. :wink:

You liked da dew huh? Yeah i actually paid for dat cut! its all good. Yep im still da badest around. lol

And naw i aint mad atcha. Oh yeah, Pin is da way to go! :wink: