Does anybody here think that we should go back to our old ways of Districts then regionals then state? I personally dont think that we should because some kids have trouble just placing in the top 4 in thier region let alone winning a match at state. a 32 man bracket allows for more competition and gets some wins under the belts of the not as good wrestlers so that they have something to be proud of... getting a win at state that is. Also if we were on a 16 man bracket it would greatly take away the significance of placing in the top 8 because all youwould have to do is get just a single win, then KHSAA might just give out medals to the top 4 which 95% of wrestlers never see.

Since I wrestled in Indiana, I am kind of partial to their tournament set-up (Sectionals, Regionals, Semi-State, State).  The top 4 go on from Sectionals, then the top 3 from Regionals, top 4 from Semi-State, which makes for a 16-man bracket at state.  I think this still gives "lesser talented" kids something to be proud if they can get to Regionals, but it still makes it to where none of the weaker wrestlers make it to state.  A 32-man bracket doesn't necessarily make for more competition, just more wrestlers.  The state of Kentucky does an excellent job of putting on the state meet, but in Indiana, it is a little bit quicker and the finals are phenominal under the lights at Conseco Fieldhouse (it seats 18K).  You have to be at your best for 3 straight weekends to make state in Indiana which pretty much ensures that you deserve to be there.  I would love to see Kentucky go to a format similar to this but for now, since KY is not quite as established in wrestling (IN has over 310 high schools that wrestle), I think the current format suites just fine.  As for placing, Kentucky can still do the top 8 places.  Yes in IN you can place in the top 8 and only have to win 1 match at state, but a top 8 placing in IN says that you are in the best 2.5% of your weight class.  A top 8 placing in KY says that you are at least in the top 10%.  Bottom line, a 16 man bracket makes for better competition at state because the wrestlers are more closely matched in talent.  A 32 man bracket makes for long days and many uneventful matches in the 1st couple of days.

Well said Dragon master.

I also am in favor of returning to a 16 man bracket.  1st and foremost it will return the state tournament back to a two day tourney.

The Thursday round is a waste of time.  Many wrestlers in that round don't belong in the state tourney.  It use to be an accomplishment to make it to the state tourney.  Now almost everyone does. 

The state tourney is suppose to be the best of the best.  Not half the wrestlers in the state.

It's all about money fellas.

Exactly penguinskillkids. It mainly has to do with money. But the sport will only grow with this 32 man bracket. We'll have like 70 - 80 teams next year, the sport IS growing.

I also don't like the fact there there are Byes in the State Tournament.  I had one my senior year because there were only three kids in one region

Exactly penguinskillkids. It mainly has to do with money. But the sport will only grow with this 32 man bracket. We'll have like 70 - 80 teams next year, the sport IS growing.

I'm not exactly sure that the 32 man bracket has caused the increase in teams. I think it is that the state now has more qualified coaches comming to the state to start teams.  There are not many teams any more that have coaches that did not wrestle.  In the past we had several coaches that had never stepped on the mat.  Now most of the coaches have actually spent some time wrestling in collage. 

But I do hope that we get big enough to where we will need to return to District, Region, and State.

do yall think the location of the state tournament will ever change

Why not in the states largest city Louisville.  I think that the turn out would be huge and this would put wrestling in the spotlight for the area. Jefferson county is one of the areas needing to notice and appreciate the sport.  We have lots of schools and talent but most kids in the area are unaware of or never see the high level of competition.  This would help the sport grow in one of the areas that are achieving below their potential.

I think we should go back to the 16 man bracket.

Personally, I'm tired of it being in Frankfort. We need middle grounds. Maybe hold it at WKU one year, Frankfort one year, EKU another, so on so forth. That way there is no biased area also I know that the Franklin County team gets to runs cocessions when state goes on, that must be a field day for them. If we ran it a different place every year it would attract more and more people every year from ALL over the state. Also with the concessions every time its at a certain area like say Elizabethtown North Hardin could run the concessions then the next year it was in Elizabethtown LaRue could run it. If it was at WKU, more of the region 1 teams could run it. When it was at so say Cumberland Wayne, Whitley, and all of those teams could run it. It could be split up into 5 places Northern, Southern, Eastern, Central, and Western Ky.

It would be fun to go to different areas but I cant think of any facility as well suited to the size crowd as the Frankfort Conv Center.

The three days is a grind for all those staying in hotels but that is probably 80% of the participants. The crowd is mostly parents and family of wrestlers so Im not sure how much more attendance they would get if held in Louisville, Lexington or N KY, larger metro areas.

I like the fact that it is in the State Capital, lots of kids have never been to Frankfort so it makes for an educational experience as well!

The size bracket just means three days vs 2 days and I think the kids like getting out of school.

Sure making it to state meant more when it was only 16 kids making it to state. But I'm not sure it was any tougher when you compare the 16 man state bracket of then to the round of 16 at state now.

I say leave it as it is and make it better by enhancing the event! Clinics, better lighting, better music, video on screen with live action etccc lots of things that can be done to make a good show better!

It would be fun to go to different areas but I cant think of any facility as well suited to the size crowd as the Frankfort Conv Center.

The three days is a grind for all those staying in hotels but that is probably 80% of the participants. The crowd is mostly parents and family of wrestlers so Im not sure how much more attendance they would get if held in Louisville, Lexington or N KY, larger metro areas.

I like the fact that it is in the State Capital, lots of kids have never been to Frankfort so it makes for an educational experience as well!

The size bracket just means three days vs 2 days and I think the kids like getting out of school.

Sure making it to state meant more when it was only 16 kids making it to state. But I'm not sure it was any tougher when you compare the 16 man state bracket of then to the round of 16 at state now.

I say leave it as it is and make it better by enhancing the event! Clinics, better lighting, better music, video on screen with live action etccc lots of things that can be done to make a good show better!

A giant live action screen would be amazing. I would love that.

Why not in the states largest city Louisville.  I think that the turn out would be huge and this would put wrestling in the spotlight for the area. Jefferson county is one of the areas needing to notice and appreciate the sport.  We have lots of schools and talent but most kids in the area are unaware of or never see the high level of competition.  This would help the sport grow in one of the areas that are achieving below their potential.

The state tournament was held in Louisville for almost 30 years.  The early years it traveled from one school to another.  (I think Seneca held it a few years)  It was then held at Atherton High School for all or most of the 80's until it was finally moved to Frankfort.  When it was held at Atherton all those years Atherton did not have a team many of those years.

Reducing it back to a 16 man bracket will help on school costs.  Have you ever had to ask your AD for money for a hotel room for 3 or 4 nights?  Imagine if you had almost your full team going and needing 4 rooms for coaches and wrestlers. If we can reduce this to 2 or 3 nights that will reduce the cost maybe 25%.

The state tournament was held in Louisville for almost 30 years.  The early years it traveled from one school to another.  (I think Seneca held it a few years)  It was then held at Atherton High School for all or most of the 80's until it was finally moved to Frankfort.  When it was held at Atherton all those years Atherton did not have a team many of those years.

Reducing it back to a 16 man bracket will help on school costs.  Have you ever had to ask your AD for money for a hotel room for 3 or 4 nights?  Imagine if you had almost your full team going and needing 4 rooms for coaches and wrestlers. If we can reduce this to 2 or 3 nights that will reduce the cost maybe 25%.

lol. Yea, right. More like 7 or 8 rooms.

I like the 16-man bracket deal. Its way too easy to get to state. Also there should never be an empty spot in a weight class going into state.. Its like giving a terrible wrestler a goldenticket to get their tail whooped..

One bad thing about having district, regional, state is some kids would still be making it to state that shouldn't be there, but then in other regions some kids would be knocked out by better kids and not be able to make it to state.  Say you have four top ranked kids in the same weight class in state in the same region, they are going to be fighting it out while other regions would have weaker kids making it where the #1 kid isn't as good as the #4 in the first region.  Back when we had the three sections, by far the toughest district/region combination was the east jefferson/northern kentucky combo.  There were many times, myself include, someone would not make state because they were #5 but then would watch 5-6 kids at state that they have beaten through the year.  It was tough every year in that combination while other districts/regions would have cake walks into state.  Under the old system I never made it, but the new system I would have made it 3 years and probably placed senior year but could not get by the top four guys in my region....tough.

Atherton held the state tournament in the 80's and early '90's....they did have a team just never had anyone good enough to make it there.  They also got a free day out of school then and we had less people watching than now, but less competitors too. 

It is about money and they make more now than old.  Plus the frankfort center gives us the facility for a great price, I believe it is free rent....There has been talk of other places having it but they can't match the same setup with number of people that can be held in it as well as enough hotel rooms within a real close distance to handle the people.

    I also grew up during those tough times of the Northern Ky/East Jeff. region.  I'll tell you this when you did make it through to the state tourney from that region you knew you were able to place and place high at the state tourney.  Those kids that did make it were usually placers in their wt. class. 

    I personally am happy that I was part of that tough region and worked my tail off to make it 3 times. I was greatly disappointed my freshman year when I did not make it and saw many wrestlers that I had defeated in other regions at the state tourney.  It made my drive more determined to make it the next year. 

    I also enjoyed seeing the #4 from most regions giving the #1 a run for their money in the 1st round.  All the rounds were exciting back then.

    What is it going to take to return to the 16 man tourney and District/region.  MORE AND MORE AND MORE TEAMS.  When todays districts get so large that there are 11-15 wrestlers competing in every wt. class we will need to return to this structure.  This would mean about 110 schools with teams in KY.

    I hope to see that day, and hope that I am somehow still involved with the sport.

I think it should go back to a 16 man bracket also.  Making it to state does need to mean more and everyone is right the first day of state in a 32 man bracket is a horrible waste of time for the most time.

"I also enjoyed seeing the #4 from most regions giving the #1 a run for their money in the 1st round.  All the rounds were exciting back then."

YES. And almost ever yr a one seed went down on Friday morning.  Bring back the true state tourney...16 men per bracket.  A state qualifier used to be a big deal, especially in the good regions like NKY/Jeff and the bluegrass region.

Personally I think it would take more than 110 schools for t hat to happen.  Because even if you added 22 more schools spread out over 8 regions that's less than 3 more per region.  And you know most of those schools wouldn't have full rosters.  I would say more like 128 schools.  there are some regions that have 12 and 13 schools in them now but not full teams.  I hope it does happen but I don't believe it will, it's just not popular enough of a sport in Kentucky and not enough population. 

Have 4 Regions like we use to?

I definately think that we should go back to a 16 man bracket at the state tournament.  8 districts with top four placers going to regionals, 4 regions with top four placers going to state.  I graduated in 2001 which was the last year we had districts.  Since then I have seen teams that have qualified there whole team to go to state which was unheard of in my day.  It used to mean something to be a state qualifier and now it is just expected of everyone.  I wrestled in the old region 4 which was regions 7 & 8 combined.  That was a tough region with teams like Woodford Co, Wayne Co, Sheldon Clark, Paul Dunbar, and Henry Clay.  I know that year out of the top four wrestlers in each weight class we produced

1- 103 Doug Upchurch State Champ (Billy Clark ranked first all year and couldn't compete due to illness)

2- 112 (both finalist) Tyler Baldwin State Champ defeated Nick Chaffin

1- 119 Luke Metzker 3rd

1- 125 Nathan Moore 3rd

1- 130 Kyle Leugers 3rd

2- 145 Derrick Mollette State Champ, Kevin Rodriguez 3rd

1- 152 Buddy Dodd 4th

1- 160 Josh Wilkinson 3rd

1- 171 Eric Slugantz State Champ

1- 189 Josh Muncy State Champ

3- 215 John Dials State Champ, T.J Guffey 3rd, Jarvis Livingston 4th

4 Top Ten Teams

Woodford Co. 3rd

Wayne Co. 5th

Sheldon Clark 6th

Henry Clay 10th

i like this setup i think that we should go back to 16 man brackets instead of draggin state out three days . Plus it would mean more to make it to state if you  went through districts then regionals, then state  just my 2 cents.

What about the two years in the 80's where they had district, regionals, semistate and state?  I believe they only placed the top four in each class those years....that's like many other states around us, but we don't have enough schools.  Obviously it didn't last.

What about the two years in the 80's where they had district, regionals, semistate and state?  I believe they only placed the top four in each class those years....that's like many other states around us, but we don't have enough schools.  Obviously it didn't last.

When they did this they made the state tourney an 8-man bracket.  It was a 1 day tourney much like the regions are today.  I'm not sure why they did not place top 6.

I have been a former head coach in KY and now a coach in IN.  I think the first thing you need to fight is

    #1 Coaches in the off season should be able to coach their wrestlers in the FS and GR styles of wrestling.  Great wrestlers aren't made in the 3-5 month period you get to coach them in folkstyle.  The time wrestlers make their biggest strides in this sport is in the FS & GR season.  Being able to take your wrestlers to FILA Cadet or JR nationals, NHSCA HS nationals, FARGO nationals is the best preparation for any wrestlers in the off season. When the state starts letting coaches run USA wrestling clubs for the kids, the state will produce better quality wrestlers.

  #2  Get rid of the 32 man bracket, there is about a total of 70-100 schools with wrestling in the state (estimation).  20-30 can schools field a full team (varsity, JV, and freshman).  Many schools cant field a full varsity team.  I felt the state tournament (which was well run) is way to easy of a tournament.  There are times you will have wrestlers that don't even belong there but when you have 4 guys in a weight class at regions they will be at state.  I had a wrestler with a 1-??? record that made it to state because there were only 4 guys in the region.  If you want to get respect for our sport, build a stronger coaches association and bring up these concerns with the KHSAA.  Good luck with this battle, I hope for the best! 

I like the idea of the 16 man bracket because if you make it to state then you know that you earned the right to be there.  In some cases you dont even have to win a single match at regionals to make it to state.  If we revert to the 16 man bracket you will see alot more competitive matches at state rather than just pin after pin in the first round of state.

the 16 man bracket is def. better than 32 man bracket. The only bad thing about the 16 man is that u only had to weigh in once which gave some kids that didnt cut much a disadvantage. Some of the other kids in the same weight would be cuttin the night before and then blimp up to about 15 lbs. over the 2nd day of state.

so we're not doing the district, regionals, state or are we

the 16 man bracket is def. better than 32 man bracket. The only bad thing about the 16 man is that u only had to weigh in once which gave some kids that didnt cut much a disadvantage. Some of the other kids in the same weight would be cuttin the night before and then blimp up to about 15 lbs. over the 2nd day of state.

There were still 2 weigh ins when State was a 16 man bracket, at least when I was in high school.  The whole point of a State tournament is to prove that you've accomplished something; earned your way into something.  As a 32 man bracket, not many people are earning their way in.  In many "Regions" (basically the old Districts) there are byes, and people are getting into the State tournament because they show up.  I understand it's about money, and I don't think anyone should lie to themselves and say that it's to help the sport grow.  Maybe if the sport grows as a bi-product people can look at the results and say, "See, I told you the system would work," but I'll stand by myself if I have to and say that's just lip service.

Out of a 16 man bracket, place the top 6 after they've qualified through District and Region, and feel good about yourself for accomplishing something.  The whole 32 man bracket is a joke.  Yeah, it may be nice for a kid who's a sophomore or freshman to have "State Tournament experience" under his belt, but it completely detracts from the guy who's busted his butt all year and truly deserves to be there.  Someone posted earlier about the upsets that happened the first day of the tournament when it was a 16 man bracket.  That was expected, you watched for it, and it was exciting.  How many times are there first round upsets these days?  Probably here and there, but I doubt very many; it's not something you can really even hope for when you've got someone who is a "Regional" champ wrestling a kid that only got his hand raised in victory when he made weight.

I'll admit that I've become pretty distanced from KY high school wrestling over the past 7 or 8 years, but after the State tournament became something less than an accomplishment I really lost interest.  It would be nice to see the elimination scheme become tougher.  There are more high schools with wrestling in KY now than when I was in high school, and we still managed to have a competetive tournament.  If some districts/regions are tougher than others and a kid gets left out that may have placed at State, well, welcome to life.  It's not always fair, sometimes you get bad breaks, and sometimes you realize that the only chances you have are those that you make for yourself.

If people really want to make KY wrestling more competitive, worry about quality and not quantity.  As it is, all that the first about day and half of wrestling of the State tournament is are kids getting eliminated that shouldn't have been there anyway.  If you just want to add numbers, make it an open State tournament and let anyone who wants to wrestle show up.  The level of wrestling may never represent anything, but at least the entry fees would amount to something.

There were still 2 weigh ins when State was a 16 man bracket, at least when I was high school.  The whole point of a State tournament is to prove that you've accomplished something; earned your way into something.  As a 32 man bracket, not many people are earning their way in.  In many "Regions" (basically the old Districts) there are byes, and people are getting into the State tournament because they show up.  I understand it's about money, and I don't think anyone should lie to themselves and say that it's to help the sport grow.  Maybe if the sport grows as a bi-product people can look at the results and say, "See, I told you the system would work," but I'll stand by myself if I have to and say that's just lip service.

Out of a 16 man bracket, place the top 6 after they've qualified through District and Region, and feel good about yourself for accomplishing something.  The whole 32 man bracket is a joke.  Yeah, it may be nice for a kid who's a sophomore or freshman to have "State Tournament experience" under his belt, but it completely detracts from the guy who's busted his butt all year and truly deserves to be there.  Someone posted earlier about the upsets that happened the first day of the tournament when it was a 16 man bracket.  That was expected, you watched for it, and it was exciting.  How many times are there first round upsets these days?  Probably here and there, but I doubt very many; it's not something you can really even hope for when you've got someone who is a "Regional" champ wrestling a kid that only got his hand raised in victory when he made weight.

I'll admit that I've become pretty distanced from KY high school wrestling over the past 7 or 8 years, but after the State tournament became something less than an accomplishment I really lost interest.  It would be nice to see the elimination scheme become tougher.  There are more high schools with wrestling in KY now than when I was in high school, and we still managed to have a competetive tournament.  If some districts/regions are tougher than others and a kid gets left out that may have placed at State, well, welcome to life.  It's not always fair, sometimes you get bad breaks, and sometimes you realize that the only chances you have are those that you make for yourself.

If people really want to make KY wrestling more competitive, worry about quality and not quantity.  As it is, all that the first about day and half of wrestling of the State tournament is are kids getting eliminated that shouldn't have been there anyway.  If you just want to add numbers, make it an open State tournament and let anyone who wants to wrestle show up.  The level of wrestling may never represent anything, but at least the entry fees would amount to something.

Their is two things impressive about what was just said here

A. That it obviously is not a kid who has wrote this reply because of the correct grammar and the fact that it actually makes alot of sense

B.  The more impressive fact about this quote is that this was wrote at 3:30 A.M.  Somebody is a night owl or just really had to get something off the chest.

I wont argue that qualifying for a 16 man state tougher. But I still say; "it's not about how you get to state, it's what you do when you get there".

Set your ego's aside and consider:

1) 16 man state eliminates 1/2 the kids, these kids will probably never get to see a state tournament, not good for a sport desperately needing to grow.

2) The High School State Tournament is the pinnacle for High School Wrestling, the more participants the more supporters for life. Most high school wrestling is judged through the years on the wrestlers performance at state, not how you got to state.

3) The location is awesome, its a special venue used only one time a year. The Convention Center helps make it a special event. I wouldn't mind if they changed it to a similar facility. Something unique and used only once a year for state, but not just another high school gymnasium.

I wont argue that qualifying for a 16 man state tougher. But I still say; "it's not about how you get to state, it's what you do when you get there".

Set your ego's aside and consider:

1) 16 man state eliminates 1/2 the kids, these kids will probably never get to see a state tournament, not good for a sport desperately needing to grow.

2) The High School State Tournament is the pinnacle for High School Wrestling, the more participants the more supporters for life. Most high school wrestling is judged through the years on the wrestlers performance at state, not how you got to state.

3) The location is awesome, its a special venue used only one time a year. The Convention Center helps make it a special event. I wouldn't mind if they changed it to a similar facility. Something unique and used only once a year for state, but not just another high school gymnasium.

Totally agree with all three point.

you know this also brings up the idea of seeding at state. if we cut to a 16 man bracket we could match wrestlers better for better competition by seeds. i know last year brought up that whole conversation about real good wrestlers in a weight class, wrestling each other. ex .johnny wolseifer vs. scott wheeler. in the second round.

16-man bracket would be a good idea.

Yes you will be loosing half the kids if you return to a 16 man bracket, and yes some may never get to see the state tournament, but most of those kids either: 1 don't stick around and go home after they are eliminated; or: 2 never watch the wrestling after they are eliminated.

You are correct it is the pinnacle of high school wrestling, so lets make the wrestling show that high quality throughout the tournament. 

More participants does not equal more supporters.  I believe it causes you to loose supporters. The state tournament becomes another of those long drawn out boring tourneys that last not just one day but 3 long days.  How many actually stay and watch all of Thursday's matches? Most do not pay attention until the quarters or the semifinals.

I have no problem with the location of the state tournament.  Just keep it out of a high school and make the venue special and unique.

I believe we have done this backwards.  The 32 man bracket was not needed.  We did not have enough teams in the state to warrent expanding the brackets.  If we are able to increase the number of teams in each district/now region we could expand the state tournament to those quality wrestlers.

I would like to see a district/region tournament that must take two days to complete because of the number of teams in the district/region 12-18 teams in each region. (96-120 teams in the state)

Then take the top for in each district/region to state.  Finding the top 4 wrestlers in each of these tournaments would most likely be top notch wrestlers.

I yearn for the days when you came to the state tournament and watched every match because the number 1's were not safe from the number 4's.  There were several upsets every year of a 4 defeating a 1. Now it is a rarity.