Ok, I've been thinking about a JV state tourney and someone mentioned why don't you just put one together and call it that. I think a good date may be on the same weekend as state duals. A lot of teams don't do anything that day anyways. That date for this season is Jan. 26th. I can throw it at my place(Moore). I think these younger guys need something to work for other then just being practice dummies. I would just like some input and suggestions on how we can get something like this started for this next season. We could do a blind draw or seed kids based on performances in other JV tourneys throughout the year.

Seneca, Trinity, and Connor had JV tourneys last year. Anyone else? Will you have them this year? What dates?

We would also have to discuss eligibility. We don't want varsity wrestlers in this tournament but then again some of us have guys who wrestle varsity just because they are the only one at that weight class. Do we go win percntage? grade level?

Sounds good, Region 2 usually has a JV Regional tournament Before State. I think a state tournament would be great. They are always asking why there isn't one.

Yea I think that is a great idea.  I would think not allow any Seniors, Juniors can only if they have less than 5 varsity matches that year, so they are mostly backup varsity.  Sophomores I would say if they are less than 75% win percentage and any freshman regardless of number of wins or loses.    I would say that I would send as many kids as I can to it and I think Moore would be a great place to hold it.  Just my .02.

Yea I think that is a great idea.   I would think not allow any Seniors, Juniors can only if they have less than 5 varsity matches that year, so they are mostly backup varsity.  Sophomores I would say if they are less than 75% win percentage and any freshman regardless of number of wins or loses.    I would say that I would send as many kids as I can to it and I think Moore would be a great place to hold it.   Just my .02.

What about those teams that only have a varsity squad.  They will have Juniors on the team that are 1st year wrestlers that wrestle all year varsity and only a few wins (Which usually come from opposing teams that send their JV kid in the varsity spot for a better match up).

This is always a problem with JV.  Probably wouldn't matter because those teams mentioned above probably would not be able to come anyway.

Well I think there is always going to be what if's, but I would think the intent is to keep someone not to participate in it that would obviously run through the brackets.  I would say ultimately it would come down to the decision of whoever is in charge of running it and say at their discretion.  Or how about change Juniors to have 10 or less  varsity wins?  By the same contrast everyone knows that their are jv wrestlers on some teams that are better than the varsity on other teams.

What about those teams that only have a varsity squad.  They will have Juniors on the team that are 1st year wrestlers that wrestle all year varsity and only a few wins (Which usually come from opposing teams that send their JV kid in the varsity spot for a better match up).

This is always a problem with JV.  Probably wouldn't matter because those teams mentioned above probably would not be able to come anyway.

Why not call it the Freshman/Sophomore State Tournament.  State Qualifiers would not be allowed.

Why not call it the Freshman/Sophomore State Tournament. 

would this really be fair to the juniors/seniors who are first year wrestlers or who are wrestling behind someone like Harrison Courtney or Mitch Ervin??

Someone mentioned that the best way to do it would be that the wrestler does not wrestle in regionals. That would be your first team and varsity wrestlers right there.

You then run into the problem of possibly having say a first year freshmen fill a weight class. I had a few of those. Do you not let them wrestle in JV state? If it comes to that situation do you then go by maybe win percentage?

Example:

- Wrestler must not represent your team in regionals

- Exception: wrestler is the only wrestler at that weight class for your team and has a win percentage below 50%.

????

I'm not sure how to punish and unhonest team or coach. Do you just forfeit his place if he did and roll everyone up? Do you penalize the team from participating the following year?

more ideas...

Ohio has one. Maybe you could research how they do it.

Someone mentioned that the best way to do it would be that the wrestler does not wrestle in regionals. That would be your first team and varsity wrestlers right there.

You then run into the problem of possibly having say a first year freshmen fill a weight class. I had a few of those. Do you not let them wrestle in JV state? If it comes to that situation do you then go by maybe win percentage?

Example:

- Wrestler must not represent your team in regionals

- Exception: wrestler is the only wrestler at that weight class for your team and has a win percentage below 50%.

????

I'm not sure how to punish and unhonest team or coach. Do you just forfeit his place if he did and roll everyone up? Do you penalize the team from participating the following year?

more ideas...

It just comes down to honesty.  Each coach must make the decision of who they will send.  Why would a kid who is an accomplished varsity wrestler want to wrestle in a JV state tourney. 

For that matter why would a coach send an accomplished Varsity to a JV Event?  If this is held during the season then there is proabably already a varsity event they are attending.

It just comes down to honesty.  Each coach must make the decision of who they will send.  Why would a kid who is an accomplished varsity wrestler want to wrestle in a JV state tourney. 

For that matter why would a coach send an accomplished Varsity to a JV Event?  If this is held during the season then there is proabably already a varsity event they are attending.

good point grappler-of-old

Someone mentioned that the best way to do it would be that the wrestler does not wrestle in regionals. That would be your first team and varsity wrestlers right there.

You then run into the problem of possibly having say a first year freshmen fill a weight class. I had a few of those. Do you not let them wrestle in JV state? If it comes to that situation do you then go by maybe win percentage?

Example:

- Wrestler must not represent your team in regionals

- Exception: wrestler is the only wrestler at that weight class for your team and has a win percentage below 50%.

????

I'm not sure how to punish and unhonest team or coach. Do you just forfeit his place if he did and roll everyone up? Do you penalize the team from participating the following year?

more ideas...

What would you do though if someone in the varsity line up gets hurt before regionals and the team needs the JV wrestler who participated in the JV state tourney?

I would think in that case it wouldn't be an issue since most people would know that an injury occured or even maybe say the varsity guy can no longer hold the weight down and has to go up a class....i think the point is just that you don't want a varsity guy to go in there and just beat up on a jv guy who may want to do well or hope to do well...there will always be someone though. 

What would you do though if someone in the varsity line up gets hurt before regionals and the team needs the JV wrestler who participated in the JV state tourney?

I think the only way to do this would be to allow the head coaches to make the decision themselves.

Take my situation for example.

I had 5 kids on my team this year.  (I lost one other 1st year at Christmas because of  injury)

3 experienced and 2 1st year wrestlers.

On any other team 3 or 4 of them would be JV (Golsby being the only one for sure not JV, and Wren a maybe)

They wrestled varsity all year because I cannot split my team (1'm the only coach) nor would my school pay for 2 events for 4-5 wrestlers.

4 of these wrestlers wrestled in the Regional Tourney.  (1 Wren was out for injury)  Golsby was the only qualifier and one of my 1st year ended up alternate.

According to the rules stated above my wrestlers would not be able to wrestle in the JV State.

Granted;  I probably would not be able to send anyone to the JV state anyway but some teams in similar situations might be able to but would be denied the opportunity.

Keep in mind if we do a JV state, that not all programs are like Woodford, Campbell, Larue, North Oldham, South Oldham.  These teams send full JV teams to varsity tourneys for competition, and these JV wrestlers usually have more experience than wrestlers on teams like mine.

Also remember that we (the coaches) are responsible people with morals. We would not throw a ringer into the JV state tourney. What would be the purpose?

This is the same argument we had when the Middle school state tourney started, and I was unable to send anyone because they were going to compete in the region/district.

Ok, I've been thinking about a JV state tourney and someone mentioned why don't you just put one together and call it that. I think a good date may be on the same weekend as state duals. A lot of teams don't do anything that day anyways. That date for this season is Jan. 26th. I can throw it at my place(Moore). I think these younger guys need something to work for other then just being practice dummies. I would just like some input and suggestions on how we can get something like this started for this next season. We could do a blind draw or seed kids based on performances in other JV tourneys throughout the year.

Seneca, Trinity, and Connor had JV tourneys last year. Anyone else? Will you have them this year? What dates?

We would also have to discuss eligibility. We don't want varsity wrestlers in this tournament but then again some of us have guys who wrestle varsity just because they are the only one at that weight class. Do we go win percntage? grade level?

I dont believe a JV state is a good idea bc then some wrestlers as sad as it is, might purposely go JV to win JV state, when they would maybe only make it to placing round at varsity

I think its a good and bad idea for a few reasons:

good- gives jv a chance to wrestle

        lets them know what its like to wrestle in state

bad- if they want to compete in a state related tournament they should get better and go to the real one

I think it's a good idea as long as certain guidelines are set and only those eligible ones who meet it are allowed in.  If someone goes to that instead of going to actual state just because he may place higher it doesn't say much about his competitiveness or drive to do better.  Mike, I think you and the other coaches at Moore should go ahead and just do it and do what you can with it...

What may make it easy is by rule no senior can compete in a jv match.  The first year or so would probably be dominated by the teams mentioned in a previous reply but also adding St.X and Trinity to the mix.  The best idea maybe going with the win percentage of those wrestlers that are filling spots on those varsity teams.  The shady area maybe with first year juniors who are just losing because of experience issues but is stronger that every freshman or sophomore they face.  Maybe have a set of coaches sit down and come up with guidelines that can help it run successfuly.  I am willing to help just call.

Mike, not sure if you are planning this...but i think it would be a great idea.  If i were you, i would just rely on the coaches to be honest.  I don't think you really want to track down a bunch of complaints that certain kids have been varsity all year.  I'd just restrict it to 9-11 graders and leave it at that.

There used to be a JV regional in N. Ky, from what i heard it was a lot of bickering about who should be allowed that caused it to go away.  I helped run a JV tourney last season at Conner for 1 major reason...with all the m.s. wrestlers coming up to h.s., these kids are going to get stuck at JV behind Jrs & Srs..and a lot of them will quit.  We had a lot of good m.s. wrestlers that were freshman last year and quit.  Not sure of their reasons, but being stuck at JV was probably not a good experience for them.  The more JV tourneys there are in the state...the more these middle schoolers will stick around until they are Jrs & Srs.  A JV state tournament would be great for these kids.

Why not call it the Freshman/Sophomore State Tournament.  State Qualifiers would not be allowed.

if you did that there would only be 5 people in the 103 bracket

Maybe each region host their own JV tournament and make it easier.

ALL Seniors and anyone wrestling in the regional tournment are in-eligble excluding middle school.

The problem is find the time, most teams are focused on the Region and State Tournament and not thinking of JV.

How about 9-11 grade only and state qualifiers from the previous year may not enter? I think that would be the easiest to control.

And also, JV allowed as in the non starters such as those more advanced schools (i.e. trinity seneca larue woodford union) who have enough for 2 teams (a JV and varsity). The ones who are on the varsity team not allowed because more than likely if held at the same time of the state duals those teams will be representing their region at the state duals and that leaves only their JV's left.