With Ballard not having a team this year, leaving region 5 with only 7 teams, how fair is that for other regions that have as many as 12 teams?  Should a team be moved from another region into region 5? or should we just leave it alone?  What are your thoughts?

i think other teams should be added into the region. if only 7 teams then most of the wrestlers can just slip into state without having to do much. 

regions are separated by geographical alignment. 

In Region 6 Nky we have had 7 teams for years  with the addition of Newport and Boone in the last 5 years we have moved to 9 teams.

What would you do?  Make a team travel over an hour to even out a region or have them travel 20-30 minutes to a closer region?

Region 5 is partly in Jefferson Co so on of the other Jefferson Co schools could easily be added to Region 5. IMHO

regions are separated by geographical alignment. 

In Region 6 Nky we have had 7 teams for years  with the addition of Newport and Boone in the last 5 years we have moved to 9 teams.

What would you do?  Make a team travel over an hour to even out a region or have them travel 20-30 minutes to a closer region?

Region 8 teams travel over 3 hours each year to region....  Eastern half travel to western part of region 1 year. (ex. Sheldon Clark, Johnson Central, Letcher Central, Lawrence, Prestonsburg, and Ashland traveled to Wayne County last year)

This year the western teams in region ( ex. Wayne McCleary, and Whitley will travel to Johnson Central.

Geographical for whom? 

The problem I see with Kentucky is that there just aren't enough programs to have a good 32 man bracket at state.  It would be nice if each region had 16 or so teams but I think thats a ways off.  With that said I do think we should at least look at the possibility of moving teams around to make it fair for everybody.  If region realignment is possible here is a one idea.  Yes some schools would have more travel but on the other hand some other schools would have less.  As was already pointed out Region 8 has a lot more travel than anybody else so I don't think too many people have a right to complain but I know there will be lots of groaning.

Most of the picture (see attached file) is probably self explanatory but here are the changes:

Region 1:  sends 3 schools move to region 2

Region 2:  gains 3 schools from region 1 and 1 school from region 3, sends 1 school to region 4 and 1 school to region 7

Region 3:  sends 1 school to region 2

Region 4:  sends 3 schools to region 5, gains 1 school from region 2 and 4 from region 7

Region 5:  gains 3 schools from region 4

Region 6:  gains 2 schools from region 7

Region 7:  Sends 4 schools to region 4 and 2 to region 6, gains 1 school from region 2 and 3 from region 8

Region 8:  Sends 3 schools to region 7

With the exception of the three schools from region 4 to 5 it is easy to tell which schools would be moving.  Within Louisville I would move the three schools that make the most sense (sorry I didn't map in greater detail).  Depending on which schools would move in this plan I think it does keep any one region from having too many power programs but please correct me if I am wrong.

I hope things brings some debate rather than just criticism.  Either way I just wanted to throw this out there and see what comments it fetched.

First off, I'm glad to see it on a map.  I have thought about doing that with my realignment idea, but haven't been able to man up to it. HA!HA!HA!  Now the criticisms.  You have to balance travel time with competition.  Region 3 is making progress; can't move any teams out yet.  Region 6 has been one of the toughest over the years; it doesn't make a lot of sense to add Harrison and Bourbon.  I'm not sure moving those schools from Region 8 to Region 7 saves much travel time in the long run does it?

But as I always say, don't criticize unless you can offer some better ideas.

I like the idea and I love the map.

However I don't think that you have all the teams represented.  I know that region 6 has 9 teams already in it and you only have 8 represented.  (Probably Boone Co. left off)

Are there any other teams not represented?

Yeah I didn't have Boone County because it wasn't on the region breakdown listed on this site.  My intent was to get all regions to 9 or 10 teams (which is why the three schools from region 8 went to region 7).  I am sure it can be done better but it takes one suggestion to get the ball rolling.

Ranger would you like the PPT file so that you can edit it to your realignment idea?

can you make the file available to all? 

I would like to take a shot at realignment also.  :-D

Ok attached below.  I also added a location for boone county.

can you make the file available to all? 

I would like to take a shot at realignment also.  :-D

Not to change the subject, but I would be curious to see a map like that one for the Indiana schools that have a wrestling program.  How many more Indiana counties have wrestling programs at their schools compared to Kentucky.  Just curious...don't anybody waste any time coming up with a map.

Indiana has a little over 300 schools with wrestling programs, give or take a few.  It is a little easier geographically aligning 300+ schools to be within a reasonable distance for sectionals than aligning 79 or 80 schools spread all over the state of Kentucky.  Until the sport of wrestling grows a little bigger in Kentucky and gets up to 120+ high schools with wrestling programs (hopefully that will happen at some point in the future), we are almost destined to have this problem.

http://www.ihsaa.org/b-wrestling_frame.htm

Here is the link to the breakdown of all Indiana schools with wrestling programs and their respective sectionals (comparable to our districts).

Thanks Dragon Master...But don't change the subject...lol :-D

Just to give an example because I know the sectional well (it's the sectional in which I wrestled in Indiana), the Southridge sectional has 9 schools and the farthest a school in that sectional has to travel is 1 hour.  That is about the biggest distance any school has to travel in Indiana.  Most schools are within about 30 minutes of their sectional host.

Just to give an example because I know the sectional well (it's the sectional in which I wrestled in Indiana), the Southridge sectional has 9 schools and the farthest a school in that sectional has to travel is 1 hour.  That is about the biggest distance any school has to travel in Indiana.  Most schools are within about 30 minutes of their sectional host.

Wow that really illustrates how far Kentucky wrestling has to go.  Don't get me wrong, there has been a lot progress made in the past few years.

The main problem I see is the lack of coaches.  Until we find a solution to that problem we will never be in the situation that Indiana is in.

I agree the lack of coaches seem to hinder the progress wrestling is making in Kentucky.  However, most of you wrestling coaches are ex-wrestlers so with only 79 or 80 schools wrestling in Kentucky, your pool seems to be a little more limited from which to choose.  I would almost say that every coach in the state of Kentucky is an ex-wrestler themselves.  I'm sure there are a few who aren't, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.  Indiana does an excellent job of promoting high school wrestling and that is partly why they succeed.  The other reasons the sport is much bigger in Indiana than Kentucky are the middle school programs and youth leagues Indiana has compared to Kentucky and the tremendous offseason program and opportunities Indiana has.  I think something else that hinders Kentucky & maybe this is stretching it a little, but there are no DI, DII or DIII college wrestling programs in Kentucky, just 2 NAIA programs that I know of.  If you look at all the states where high school wrestling is big, they have a lot of college programs at all levels (DI, DII, DIII, NAIA & NJCAA).  Once again, Indiana has 2 DI programs, 2 DII programs & 4 DIII programs (that is also off the top of my head, they may have more).  Believe me, I know we often complain that football and basketball take priority over wrestling in Kentucky, but if wrestling can grow in Indiana when the season is the same time as basketball, then Kentucky can succeed in building the sport of wrestling.  Sorry for getting off subject a little.

Yeah we're a little off subject.  maybe we should move this to a new topic.  I do think you have a good point about the lack of college programs in Kentucky effecting the level of high school programs.  You can just look at the number of kids that LaRue has on their teams (I think they are the closest to Campbellsville?).  I saw a roster for them one time, they were 4 deep in every weight class. 

So are you telling me that a lot of the coaches in Indiana did not even wrestle in school?  That amazes me. 

No, not that a lot of coaches from Indiana did not wrestle, although there are a few.  The point I was trying to make was for example if you have 300+ high school programs like Indiana does, they will naturally produce more "ex-wrestlers" than say the state of Kentucky will with their 79 or 80 programs.  That would naturally mean a larger pool of people with at least a base knowledge of wrestling who are qualified to become coaches.

Just because a geographical location does not have many teams, does not mean that they should get a free ride to state. The only fair thing to do is to get them as even as possible without being impracticle on the length of travel.

I liked the district region and state format. It seemed that there were alot more quality first round state matches.

But wrestling is growing popularity this way. Even the regions out even if you have to change a few. That is the only sensible thing to do. We already took away the district tournament. Might as well make things balanced across the state as well. Just my opinion :-D

No, not that a lot of coaches from Indiana did not wrestle, although there are a few.  The point I was trying to make was for example if you have 300+ high school programs like Indiana does, they will naturally produce more "ex-wrestlers" than say the state of Kentucky will with their 79 or 80 programs.  That would naturally mean a larger pool of people with at least a base knowledge of wrestling who are qualified to become coaches.

the statistics do seem to be stacked against us...huh  :|

the statistics do seem to be stacked against us...huh  :|

The sport is growing in the state, the wrestling community just needs to continue to be involved in growing the sport.

It is headed in the right direction we just need to keep it going.

Of the 279 schools listed as members of the KHSAA, approx 80 have wrestling only, less than 30%.

The map is a really good visual of how much area there is for growth!

Wow, look at all the open area in the south central part of the state, lots of room for growth.

Kentucky's biggest problem is the size of many of their schools.

Kentucky has to many small town schools for the population of the state.  Small town schools have a huge problem fielding a wrestling team and a basketball team. 

Just take Nky for example.  Silver Grove, Dayton, Bellevue, Newport Catholic, Lloyd, Ludlow, Beechwood, Bishop Brossart, Holy Cross (Cov)  Covington Latin,  Villa Madona, Watlton Verona.  I'm sure there are a few I missed.

Many of these schools only have a handfull of sports. Usually basketball, football and track.

There are some larger schools that still do not have wrestling.  Highlands, Covington Catholic, Pedleton Co.

When you are listing 279 schools as member shools I would say close to 100 will never be able to field a team.  It still is a low percentage. 

OK from what I can figure, according to the IHSAA web site, IHSAA has about 400 members.  Around 300 of them have wrestling programs.  That means 75% of the high schools in IN have wrestling programs.  If we are at 28% now, what would be a realistic goal for KHSAA member schools that have a wrestling program? 

If you take out the 100 smaller schools that, according to grappler-of-old, will probably never be able to field a team, that leaves 179 member schools in KY.  If you consider that the pool of schools we have to start with, right now we have about 44% of those schools with programs.  We would need about 55 more teams in KY to get to 75% of the reduced number of member schools.  That is still only 48% of the total member schools.  Is that the realistic goal? 48%?  That's kind of sad if you ask me. 

I think there has to be some kind of goal for us to reach.  Because if you strive for nothing, you will hit it every time.

Where I grew up it was quite common for two schools to co-op on a program for most sports.  We had a school that traveled to us to be a part of our football team and we joined with a different school that was 15 miles away to combine for a wrestling program.  Would that not be a possibility here?

Oh Yeah, Our rules would not allow that....lol

Kentucky's biggest problem is the size of many of their schools.

Kentucky has to many small town schools for the population of the state.  Small town schools have a huge problem fielding a wrestling team and a basketball team. 

Just take Nky for example.  Silver Grove, Dayton, Bellevue, Newport Catholic, Lloyd, Ludlow, Beechwood, Bishop Brossart, Holy Cross (Cov)  Covington Latin,  Villa Madona, Watlton Verona.  I'm sure there are a few I missed.

Many of these schools only have a handfull of sports. Usually basketball, football and track.

There are some larger schools that still do not have wrestling.  Highlands, Covington Catholic, Pedleton Co.

When you are listing 279 schools as member shools I would say close to 100 will never be able to field a team.  It still is a low percentage. 

Im not arguing with what you say about small schools but how can a school short on students field football teams and not wrestling? Wrestling should be a perfect alternative for the kids not tall enough or big enough to play football?

I think its more about not having coaching or a catalyst for the sport in these schools that keep them from having teams.

Evilledad

    I believe that coaches are one of the biggest problems.  Or more specifically teachers that are willing to coach.  Most schools would be more than happy to start a team if they have a teacher/coach in their building, and it is someone they believe will remain in their school. 

    I do know firsthand that some of the smaller schools are unable to field both a basketball team and a wrestling team.  While I was a trainer at Bellevue High School they had an assistant football coach that was the head coach at Ross High school in Ohio.  We both talked to the kids and the athletic director about bellevue starting a team.  He said there is no way they could have both basketball and wrestling.  When the football team makes it deep in the playoffs they have to cancel basketball games because they do not have enough players to play the games.