What major Kentucky university ( UK , UL, WKU, EKU, Morehead, Murray, etc) athletic program will be smart enough to first start an official team and attract high school graduates from about 80 high schools in KY to their university? 

None.

Are you trying to say they are not very smart because they are managed and run by basketball and football people?

it's not profitable for them and there is only one other school in the big east with wrestling i believe and not sure of the other conferences, but I just don't see it ever happening.

it's not profitable for them and there is only one other school in the big east with wrestling i believe and not sure of the other conferences, but I just don't see it ever happening.

Isn't the big ten profittable :?

Isn't the big ten profittable :?

i'm sure the big ten is proffitable

but none of those teams are in that conference

the conferences that UK and the other schools are in are not big wrestling conferences

the SEC isn't known for its wrestling

for college wrestling, the big ten is where its at IMO

There are no Kentucky schools in the big ten conference and those schools in teh big ten conference have several hundreds of in state high schools with wrestling at them, not 75-80.  and those hundreds of high schools many times have 3-4 deep rosters instead of the 25 or so in kentucky that have about 9-10 kids on them.  In my first year of college i went to several practices at a high school in Chicago and there were about 100 kids on the team and they were all real good.  

1st let me say that none of those schools have the balls to challenge title ix, which is what put most of those programs down in the beginning.  2nd There aren't too many programs that make money, on the other hand they don't cost much to operate either.  Do you know how much it cost to run a DI A football program?  Remain DI A status?  It's ridiculous.  Back to my point if there is one,  using rough numbers, you have 100k in operating budget.  25 kids on the team at 10k tuition=250k.  less 50k in 5 scholarships.  Leaves you 100k in university profits, not to mention the the ripple of alumni. 

On a side note, the Big Ten wrestling championships are profitable, as a matter of fact so is NCAA wrestling championships.  Probably one of the most profitable among the NCAA sports. 

It will come back to Title IX regardless. 

It can't be Title IX because wrestling is considered a "co-ed sport" on a national basis.  It is not for just  males only anymore.  USA Wrestling's national website has information to debunk that myth and their leaders have been working to convince college athletic departments that they should put this co-ed sport in their programs. Since women are wrestling now, the fact that athletic departments won't initiate wrestling makes them appear to be anti-women.  Title IX is actually on our side if you approach the arguement in this way.

It can't be Title IX because wrestling is considered a "co-ed sport" on a national basis.  It is not for just  males only anymore.  USA Wrestling's national website has information to debunk that myth and their leaders have been working to convince college athletic departments that they should put this co-ed sport in their programs. Since women are wrestling now, the fact that athletic departments won't initiate wrestling makes them appear to be anti-women.  Title IX is actually on our side if you approach the arguement in this way.

Yea but when the SEC was pretty well known for wrestling, and the whole title 9 thing started it was an all male sport.  And the SEC didn't produce enough revenue to keep their program alive, and start up a new program for women. Now they figure that most universities in the SEC couldn't afford it.

But it would be nice, Kentucky D1 wrestling schools would definitely make High school wrestlers in our state work harder in my opinion.

I've got my AARP card and I don't ever remember the SEC being "known for wrestling". They have comparable budgets as the Big 12 and 10 conferences but pale in comparision as to the number of sports they support.

I have been writing letters annually to the A.D.'s at our State Universities asking them to consider adding Wrestling.

The only good enough to send a reply were from NKU and WKU.

NKU cited Title IX and the expense involved in extensive traveling to compete because there weren't enough schools close by to maintain a schedule. I fully appreciated her reply and understand her concerns but also explained that wrestling is now a coed sport and the sport competes between NCAA classes. DI-DII-DIII-NAIA all compete against one another making it easier to minimize the travel for competition. She is aware of the popularity of the sport in N. KY and the surrounding areas.

WKU simply stated they couldn't afford it considering their move in football which includes more scholarships.

I have never heard back from UL or EKU, both good candidates.

I think the addition of wrestling at a State University is very important to the sports growth!

NKU cited Title IX and the expense involved in extensive traveling to compete because there weren't enough schools close by to maintain a schedule. I fully appreciated her reply and understand her concerns but also explained that wrestling is now a coed sport and the sport competes between NCAA classes. DI-DII-DIII-NAIA all compete against one another making it easier to minimize the travel for competition. She is aware of the popularity of the sport in N. KY and the surrounding areas.

This is the same lady who made the comment.  "As long as I am AD at NKU they will never bring back wrestling."

While I was attinding NKU (in the 80's) with several other friends who wrestled this is the comment told to us.  We were offered to start a club using NKU's name but nothing more. Some of these friends are still on this web site.

This is the same lady who made the comment.  "As long as I am AD at NKU they will never bring back wrestling."

While I was attending NKU (in the 80's) with several other friends who wrestled this is the comment told to us.  We were offered to start a club using NKU's name but nothing more. Some of these friends are still on this web site.

I have also been contacting the universities and addressing the same issues from the USA wrestling side of the house. I have sent info to debunk title IX excuses the benefits of a program at there university, and also a resolution that was passed by one of our State Representatives (Steven Riggs) that is an avid wrestling fan in our house of representative to consider a wrestling program in our state universities. At least you received the courtesy of an answer. If you have not seen this resolution, i have attached the hyperlink.

http://eteamz.active.com/kyusawrestling/files/HJR_203Wrestling.pdf

KD,

In what ways are they encouraging the sport of wrestling to be added to the public universities? 

I have also heard the same about NKU's AD saying that she would never start another male program. Bluegrassriver, I understand your point about coed, but that is easier said than done.  As long as their numbers are in proportion, they will not go out of their way, not to mention, these guys don't want to come under fire from alum, activists etc. The damage has been done and it is very hard to reverse most of these situations. 

Keep pounding the letters, I will do the same. 

Is there a generic one that can be copied and flooded to the PU's of KY? 

How about an organized effort from the Kentucky Wrestling Coaches Association, supported by parents, relatives and fans which by the way includes current and future in-state tuition paying citizens of the same state which supports these schools?

let it rip eville, I nominate you to lead the charge.

Im not a coach, just a dad wishing my kid could consider a state school to attend and have the option to wrestle. I wouldn't mind leading a charge if the coaches were to be involved, I think it will take a state organization's endorsement to really get any attention to the matter along with support from the community, politicians, businesses and alumni. It's just a shame our state doesnt have this to offer to the kids.

Unfortunately, I think it will take a leader from within the ranks to get any kind of support. Grapple are you a coach, you seem to know alot about this subject? Any ideas!

I wish I had more time to put forth into it.  I have had some experience in the past w/ Title 9 at the collegiate level.  I could also get in touch with someone on the national level who has taken the reigns in the Title 9 battle.  He would know what state reps, congress etc to contact and possibly a game plan.  As far as me coaching, yes unofficially, I help a few programs out.  I may get back into the coaching ranks someday or maybe an official.  Right now, time comittment prohibits me from coaching a program to the level that I would want to take it to. 

I would think getting a program started at U of L, UK, or even NKU is probably several years out at best.  The club teams that are at a couple of the universities sound like the best way to start the seeds of a true program.  How are these club teams doing?  If they do really well (numbers wise) it seems like that would be useful to show the school president or AD that there is enough interest in the sport at their school. 

morehead state should start one they have the talent there...i was attending school there and i was a 2 time national qualififer and two time district wualifier from ohio...i know the two albaneese brothers that are their from fairbanks ohio are both state qualifiers and national qualifiers...there are twoo cheerleaders there who are california state qualifiers and they wanted to get a team started..theres a couple guys i met there from georgia and i wrestled them at nationals...a couple kentucky state qualifers...a good looking line up especially with the ohio boys and the california boys (california one division for all team so state qualifier is pretty big) and the georgia kids are studs..the best thing any of the kentucky schools can do is start a club team, which can be done through the ncwa without approval of any higher ups, and get intrest in the program and see what they can do from there

I have heard that Union may be starting a team, and for these schools that say that there is no money, make it a club sport. I mean the students have to do most of the work, but the NCWA is the governing body and their national championship is huge. I belive their website is www.ncwa.net

1st for grapplehead, it does cost a lot of money to run a D1 football program, but they also bring in a ton of money as well.  For example, they usually have at least 6 home games a year that attract at least 40,000 people to each.  240,000 people who pay at least $15 a ticket (most ticket prices are anywhere from $20 to $200).  You do the math.  That is not including the rich alumni who make generous contributions to the program & university just to have the right to buy season tickets.  Imagine programs like Michigan who attract over 100,000 each game.  That is not to mention the revenue that they receive from lucrative bowl games, t.v. deals, athletic apparel sales & the money they bring in when 1 or more teams from their conference play in a BCS bowl game.  I have seen many people wear Andre Woodson or Brian Brohm jerseys, but have yet to see anyone wear a Cael Sanderson singlet.  Alumni are also more inclined to donate to a mainstream sport like football or basketball especially when they can take pride in the fact their teams play on national t.v. at least 2 or 3 times a year or more.  As far as wrestling is concerned, no it doesn't bring in much revenue, but it takes a little more to run a program than one might think.  You do have travel expenses (transportation, lodging & meals), coaching salaries, singlets, equipment likes mats & throw dummies, the cost to keep up the facilities, conference fees & not mention if you have home meets, referee fees & the cost to run the venue for the evening.  I understand most wrestlers will pay tuition out of their pocket & many won't have scholarships, but the scholarships they do have aren't free & the tuition most would pay goes towards paying profeesor salaries, room & board & university facility upkeep, in addition to grants funded by the university's annual endowment, research projects & academic department fees other than salaries.  A program at Kentucky or Louisville would generate a negative cash flow.  Programs in the Big 10 succeed because of the interest, national exposure (those programs do have some meets on t.v.) & attendance at given meets.  The Big 10 championships are a big money maker for them.  What conference championships would Kentucky or Louisville attend?

Second for BluegrassRiver, wrestling is not considered a co-ed sport on the collegiate level unless scholarships are offered & given to female athletes & that won't happen.  Yes, females can compete, but they must be afforded the same scholarship opportunities as the males.  Besides, Title IX is more than just participation or offering an equal amount of sport participation or programs.  It also encompasses the amount of money budgeted to each sex.  Universities are not going to spend extra money on wrestling & take away from sports like football, basketball & baseball in order to even the amount of finances distributed to each gender's program.  For example, if you have to budget $100,000 to a wrestling program (& it would take that much contrary to popular belief), a university would either have to take that money away from the mainstream programs or increase the budget to female programs to match.  Let's face it, neither will happen.

I would love nothing more than to see wrestling offered as an intercollegiate sport on the DI level in Kentucky, but it is not going to happen any time soon if at all.  There is not enough interest statewide.  It is kind of a Catch-22.  Major college wrestling programs would help to generate more interest in wrestling at the high school, but universities will not start college programs unless there is more interest generated.  Plan & simple, it sucks!

Dragon Master, I understand the details, thats why I gave rough numbers.  Most of the football teams you are referring to are in football are playing in a bowl game as well.  40,000 is a bunch of people for a smaller IA school like Northern Illinois or Buffalo in the MAC.  How much money does the Northern Illinois Football team bring in?  A team that will never, make a bowl, much less maintain a IA status.  85 scholarships plus their baggage.  Years ago, it used to be 27,000 in attendance for x amount of games to remain IA football.  I remember one school, were counting people in attendence from 1,000 yards away from the stadium so they could keep their status or they had to build a 30,000 seat stadium.  They built 5,000 more seats the following year.  It was so bad, admission to athletic events was rolled into your tuition, just show your ID. They were losing money as does several other schools outside the major DI conferences. 

It doesn't take that much to run a program, been there done that.  Let me rephrase that, I agree it takes more than one might think, but it really doesn't take that much.  What about the other non revenue sports, swimming, tennis, baseball? 

A team like Louisville or UK, if in fact DI, would probably fall into the Southern Conference with UTC, UNCG App St. etc.

I don't think it would happen soon either or it would have happened already.  Who wants to go wrestle for a club in college in hopes there will be a program someday?  Field of Dreams "If you build it, they will come".  But it the real world, "Prove it will work, and we will support you"  Catch 22.

The sport needs an alumnus with deep pockets to get behind this and it could happen very quickly!

Who in the sport's history has been very successful financially, enough so to seed the funding for a program?

What if an organizing group had funding to donate to a school for starting a program, would that make a difference.

Any efforts to pursue private or corporate funding for such an undertaking?

Any corporations who could get behind this kind of effort, any who support amatuer sports and a well rounded sports offering at the state universities? Ford, UPS, Humana, Toyota ??

Should the effort go toward the University boosters looking for someone to support the cause and let them take push it thru the school.

Could the USAW help with such a task?  I'm sure they could see the benefit to their efforts by expanding not only with a collegiate program but also by expanding a whole sates effort for their sport.

I think it could happen, its not that hard to believe. But it would really benefit from an organized effort from the hometown boys involved with the sport already. Perhaps the KHSAA, KWCA, USAW, AAU, all of the above!

http://www.themat.com/forms/Georgia%20and%20Intercollegiate%20Wrestling%20-%20-%20A%20Good%20_Match_%20_August%202006_.pdf

My friend Leo send this to me after our last coversation Evilledad!  I have not had time to siff through it but what I have read, seems like we could follow a similar pattern, maybe chat with them and see what they would do differently if they were in our shoes. 

Grapplehed, that is a very valid point.  But, what helps those lesser teams in conferences like the MAC, is the fact that they have some TV deals (they have teams play on ESPN from time to time especially on Thursday & Friday nights) & any time a team from their conference makes a bowl game, they share in the revenue as a conference.  Those profits not only go to the teams competing, but also to other teams in the conference.  There are no bowl games in wrestling to help generate revenue & really no T.V. deals outside of the few times you may see a few of the major programs wrestle on ESPNU or the NCAA championships.  That is the major reason the D1 programs will not get rid of the bowl games is because they are a major money maker for the universities due to the corporate sponsorships.  A playoff will eliminate revenue generated for the lesser conferences because they would not compete in bowl games.  If they went to an 8 or 16 team playoff, conferences like the MAC, Mountain West, Conference USA etc. would never be extended an invitation.  However, 30 bowl games or whatever number they are up to right now will give those teams chances to play in the postseason, regardless if it is the Maxipad Who Gives a Damn bowl or not.  I also doubt I will ever see UTC or App. St. wrestle on ESPN anytime soon, but I do see Toledo, Miami, Ohio, etc. play on ESPN, ESPN2 & ESPNU.  Also, let's face it, 5 or 6 home games with 10,000 to 15,000 in attendance will generate a little more money than 1 or 2 home wrestling meets with 2,000 to 3,000 in attendance.  Throw in the fact that football is a mainstream sport that alumni will tend to support a little more & they get the benefit of the doubt.  Also to the point I made earlier and the point you supported, there is a major interest in wrestling in the states of Ohio & Illinois so universities like Ohio & Northern Illinois have wrestling teams & Kentucky & Louisville don't.  I would love to see nothing more than kids like Harrison Courtney, Brian Peace & Mason Reid wrestle at home in state at the U of K, but we just will never get to see that.  Those kids deserve the chance to stay in state & compete at the D1 level.  As to the point of other non revenue sports, that is also very valid.  However, the sports you named have a counter sport for females (back to the Title IX thing).  Also, sports like swimming & tennis have facilities that are open to the student body as a whole.  They are just reserved for team sports during practices & meets.  I highly doubt the student body has a need to use a wrestling room or throw dummies.

Once again, I think we agree on the fact that wrestling programs at Kentucky, Louisville, etc. you have already been established, but we just disagree on why it has not happened.  You made very valid points & provided a different way to view this issue, which often times does not happen on this site.  I appreciate that.

Somehow we have veered, Football and bowl games and wrestling, or any other minor sport, comparing  apples to oranges.

Nonrevenue sports, most of the schools that I know of do not open there facilities to the public, some swimimng programs do, tennis yes, baseball no, volleyball no. A wrestling room w/ high ceilings could be used for multi purpose or intramurals. 

If there is so much support in OH and IL, why do they keep dropping programs.  It has little to do with numbers.  Eastern IL 07just dropped.  Illinois state-94, Miami OH-99 gone, Capitol, Bowling green, Toledo, wright state, dayton, UC, Xavier all gone.  western Michigan, ferris state, Lake superior, grand valley state, all gone. All of these had programs when I wrestled in college, except UC and Xavier. The schools are listed below.

What is the counter sport to football? It's not supposed to be about the money, remember.  Instead of increasing the funds and opportunities for womens sports, they have made wrestling the sacraficial lamb.

Whats my point! I have no idea, but we agree that we need a program at a major school.  Evilledad hit it with the point that we need to find someone with the deep pockets and or someone in a hard hitting position, like AD, congressman, alumni etc. 

If you look at some of the DIII or DII schools in KY and their conferences, most of the those schools have more female programs than mens, the numbers may not be the same though.

Check out this... these are schools in OH, KY, IN, IL since 1972.  I am not sure when Xavier dropped. 

Akron

Bluffton College

Bowling Green

Cedarville

Central State

Cincinnati

U. Of Dayton

Defiance College

Denison

Hiram College

Kenyon College

Malone College

Marietta College

Miami of Ohio

Oberlin College

Ohio Wesleyan

Otterbein College

Toledo

Urbana College

Wittenburg

Wooster

Wright State

Youngstown State

Eastern Kentucky

Kentucky

Belleville Area College

Chicago St.

Concordia Univ.

Depaul

Illinois Inst. of Tech

Illinois State

Lake Forest College

Monmouth College

Southern Ill.-Carbondale

Western IllinoisAnderson

Ball State

Earlham College

Evansville

Hanover College

Indiana State

Notre Dame

St. Joseph College

Taylor

Valparaiso

Once again, I give you credit for the research.  By the way, volleyball is the counter sport to football at most universities. 

It would be nice to have a D1 school in Ky but i think we all need to get behind Cambellsville and Cumberland.  Campellsville is having a great season and Cumberland is rebuilding and will be great again soon.  Naia might not be as glorified as NCAA, but NAIAs not a joke

Dragonmaster, I am sure women wrestlers are getting scholarships at any school that has a wrestling program.  You can't give scholarships to only one sex.  Cumberland's program has many young women who get scholarships.

Yes we need to support Cumberland and Campbellsville programs.  My point was not that we need D1 wrestling but we need one PUBLIC university with the lower state supported tuition in order to advance the sport in this state. Northern Ky U. would be a great start!  That's good the state legislature has passed a resolution in favor.  Take that to each AD and their staff.

Individual letters to AD's from people who are strangers to them will do little good.  This really must be a priority effort by the coaches association or a booster with money who has access.  Comb your lists of athletic donors to public universities to find someone who once wrestled or has a kid who does now. They can get an appointment and make the case. 

It seems like just one university should realize the potential in having students from 75-80 high schools to now be considering them for application!

I agree and do support Campbellsville and Cumberlands both great schools and teams.

I just want the State to have a State school offer the sport regardless of the class.

1st, let me say this is a great topic, and it shouldn't go away.  I will continue to support both Campellsville and Cumberland but it would be great to get another one started. 

Bluegrass River, not sure about Cumberland, but I remember when they started.  I believe that both men's and women's programs are maxed at 10 scholarships each.  Don't hold me to that.  I also have a hunch that USAW may have had some type of Grant of sorts to get the womens program going. 

I believe Cumberland was struggling financially at one time, gambled and added sports, therefore increasing male enrollment.  The college of Mt. St. Joe did the same thing about 15 years ago, when they allowed males to enroll, then added football, wrestling, baseball etc.  Not bad for a DIII Private school, non scholarship college. 

Name me one wrestling program who has a female on their wrestling team who is on scholarship.  Better yet, name me one female who has been offered a scholarship to wrestle in college!  I am not talking about females getting scholarships in all sports.  Of course they are offered scholarships in softball, women's basketball, volleyball, etc.  That wasn't the point I was trying to make.  At the high school level, women compete on men's wrestling teams.  That is a given.  However, I have yet to see a female compete on a college wrestling team, much less be on scholarship for wrestling.  In order for wrestling to be considered a coed sport in college, women must compete & have the opportunity to obtain athletic scholarships for that given sport.  That is a fact.  Wrestling is a male sport on the college level not coed.  I would like nothing more than to see wrestling offered as a varsity sport at a public university just the same as anyone else on here does, but it won't happen any time soon, if at all.  Think about it, how many club teams have been started at public universities in Kentucky?  Have they succeeded?  Do you think public universities are willing to put up the money to finance a wrestling team as a varsity sport if they don't even succeed as a club sport?  They simply see it as wasted money.  If we can get behind a club team, like the one at UK & help them to succeed, then maybe the administration would see the potential the sport has & begin to seriously think about offering it as a varsity or scholarship sport.  Maybe that is what we need to do!  Just a suggestion.

Cumberland actually has a whole team of girls with alot of them on scholarship

Dragon,

College Wrestling Scholarships for women?

July 6, 2007 at 8:54 pm

I understand and knew there were a few wrestling programs in college for only women just like they have female hockey teams in the NCAA now.  Once again, my point has been misunderstood.  I was talking about on a men's team!  If a school has a men's wrestling team, in order for the university to consider it coed, they have to offer & give scholarships to women to compete on THAT team.  If they can't do that, then Title IX can & more than likely will come into play with participation numbers, sports offered, financing, etc.If you are saying that as long as a sport has women who participate whether it is at the collegiate level or not, then all sports would be considered coed.  Second, I am not saying that kids will go to a university to wrestle for a club.  However, you can't tell me there aren't some very good wrestlers who are already attending UK who wouldn't be interested in wrestling for the club team that is supposedly already there.  Hell, people wrestle freestyle tournaments all summer long for fun.  If some data was produced that would point to a high chance of success rate for a wrestling program at Kentucky & the adminstration might be more inclined to start a program.  If the club team were to succeed with participation numbers, the university might take notice.  That's all I am saying.  Look, we can sit here & argue about why there is not a wrestling program in Kentucky at a public university.  I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.  The bottom line is regardless of whether I think there hasn't been a wrestling program started for this reason & you for a different reason, there still isn't a wrestling program.  Suggestions as to what could expedite this process are what are needed here.  Mine, support a club team like the one that has supposedly already been started at UK.  Help them get the word out across campus that there is a team, help them build a fan base, etc.  Yours appears to be build it and they will come.  Others have the find deep pockets to help fund it approach.  Anyone else with a different suggestion please, because I am through arguing, I'm just interested in suggestions.

I am not trying to point and counterpoint, well maybe, just for arguement sake.  I think we need to consider all aspects.  I think you have backed my position already, there are plenty of great wrestlers at UK that don't wrestle for the club if in fact they have one.  Not sure if we really found out if they actually have a club.  I agree that there should be a club in place to solidfy things, but it is really hard without the funds and support to push for a varsity program. 

I think I understand where you are coming from on Men's team with women on it.  They are not entitled to give them money, they would be considered a walk on.  If a female wanted to wrestle on a collegiate program, why wouldn't she go to a program with women's wrestling?  2nd, I definitely don't know of any women earning scholarships over a male on that program.  Sounds like recruiting problems. 

Dragon it's been good, I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just know from personal experience from both wrestling and coaching at the collegiate level it will take more than just the club. 

Ideally, if there could be a club with financial and political support to push for a varsity sport.  If I had it myself, I would have already done it. 

I am not trying to point and counterpoint, well maybe, just for arguement sake.  I think we need to consider all aspects.  I think you have backed my position already, there are plenty of great wrestlers at UK that don't wrestle for the club if in fact they have one.  Not sure if we really found out if they actually have a club.  I agree that there should be a club in place to solidfy things, but it is really hard without the funds and support to push for a varsity program. 

I think I understand where you are coming from on Men's team with women on it.  They are not entitled to give them money, they would be considered a walk on.  If a female wanted to wrestle on a collegiate program, why wouldn't she go to a program with women's wrestling?  2nd, I definitely don't know of any women earning scholarships over a male on that program.  Sounds like recruiting problems. 

Dragon it's been good, I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just know from personal experience from both wrestling and coaching at the collegiate level it will take more than just the club. 

Ideally, if there could be a club with financial and political support to push for a varsity sport.  If I had it myself, I would have already done it. 

Won't happen at our public universities.  Remember, we like football and basketball, and sometimes baseball.  We have track and soccer to appease the non big 3 fans.  Wrestling won't find a place.

It sounds like the biggest problem now in trying to get a club team is money. I would be willing to give to a fund at UK or other university if it would help.  Those of you working on this, let us know if there is truly a club program and how we can help. Talking about it on the internet will not get it done. If you build it, they will come.

I doubt that U.k would start include a wrestling program (not a club) because of the limitations the S E C puts on them.  The S.E.C used to have some powerhouse wrestling teams.  Woodford Joe Carr and two of his brothers wrestled there and i think his brother Jimi (who is the youngest person to medal in Olympic wrestling) was at U.K.  Joe even coached at U.K until the S.E.C. destroyed the program.  So i believe that any effort should include Joe Sr atleast as an advisor.  Let me put this thought out, find out what collegiate clubs are existing now, then allow every H.S program in the state to take up either donations/or pledge 100 dollars to a year. Since there are over 100 wrestling programs in the state this little fund can generate over 10 grand which is a lot considering they are getting little to nothing presently.