Now that state is done and people have got to see every wrestler in the state who do you all think are the 5 best.

My top 5 have got to be:

1- John Fahye 96

2- JJ Jude 124

3- Alex Murphy 117

4- Drew Newberry 230

5- Luke Troxell 103

Now that state is done and people have got to see every wrestler in the state who do you all think are the 5 best.

My top 5 have got to be:

1- John Fahye 96

2- JJ Jude 124

3- Alex Murphy 117

4- Drew Newberry 230

5- Luke Troxell 103

JJ Jude is in the 131 class not 124  Omar Jarvin was the 124 champ

John Fahy-96

JJ Jude- 131

Kevin Cooper- 110

Alex Murphy- 117

Luke Troxell- 103

Benard Ray- 165

Logan Wedding- 82

Brock Ervin- 75

Drew Newberry- 230

Sean Fausz- 70

I know you were talking about top 5 but these to me were the top 10 at state

Are those supposed to be in order, if so Jude should definitly be 1st

John Fahey is a 5 timer undefeated in kentucky for 5yrs.Jude is a 15yr old wrestling people 1 and 2yrs younger than him.I know of a few freshmen who are younger than him and if they had repeated 8th grade Jude would not have won .Once again the rules punish academic achievers who move up in grades and reward people putting sports before grades.Make it age limits only regardless of what grade your in and it would change the outcome of this weekends state tournament completely from 105 and up.John Fahey competing on a equal level with his competition has proven 5yrs in a row he is the best.

John Fahey is a 5 timer undefeated in kentucky for 5yrs.Jude is a 15yr old wrestling people 1 and 2yrs younger than him.I know of a few freshmen who are younger than him and if they had repeated 8th grade Jude would not have won .Once again the rules punish academic achievers who move up in grades and reward people putting sports before grades.Make it age limits only regardless of what grade your in and it would change the outcome of this weekends state tournament completely from 105 and up.John Fahey competing on a equal level with his competition has proven 5yrs in a row he is the best.

Second of all the age limit in high school IS 19 years old. So subtract 4 from that and you have 15. Maybe 1 more of school would help you!!!

I guess 1 moreYEARof school wouldn't hurt me either!

First of all I was responding to why I believe John Fahey is a better choice for best at state.Second I am sorry if pointing out that Judes age is older than some very accomplished freshmen came across as bashing.I was really trying to make a position that age and weight makes for a more equal competition.Now for my thinking on age at 8th grade.Children who start school at 5 plus 8 are 13 in the 8th grade,start at 6 and you are 14 in the 8th grade,15 seems an unfair advantage to me that age and weight would take care of.I am sorry if I offended someone .

JJ Jude Is a great guy. He may be a little older but that does not mean anything. He could have Statrted wrestling last year. I think he did wonderful I was in his weight class and although I didnt get to wrestle him I saw that he was good. I came in third in that same weight class. I started wrestling in the fifth grade. I started School when i was 4. He might have just been wrestling longer. I dont think age matters in this case he has just wrestled for a long time.Im only 13. I was really hoping to get to wrestle him. :mrgreen:

Second of all the age limit in high school IS 19 years old. So subtract 4 from that and you have 15. Maybe 1 more of school would help you!!!

This has been discussed on another threat.  The age limit for high school is 18.  You must be 18 years old on (I believe it was) August 15th. 

Therefore the age limit for middle school should be 14 by August 15th. 

Any of those that are 15 wrestling in middle school probably meet this requirement. 

This is the second person who has pointed out what the age rule is .I never said anyone broke a rule.The point I was making is that there are very good wrestlers younger than 14 at aug 1st but they are ineligible because they are in 9th grade.If they had failed or for other reasons repeated 8th grade they would have been eligible.Changing the eligibility to age and weight regardless of grade would give them the opportunity to wrestle.Many of these older 8th graders wrestle high school why not let the guys who are in many cases younger than them but in 9th grade compete.Personally I think changing the eligibility rule would take away some of reasons people choose to repeat 8th grade.

I am going to stick my two cents in on this. My son is a 6th grader who lost this year to the (OLDER) 8th grade kids. Where his birthday falls he could be held back and repeat the 6th grade. He is an honor roll student and himself does not want to be held back only for sports so he will move up to the 7th next year. Listen, despite what your opinion may or may not be the fact is that as long as this complies with the KHSAA rules and guidelines like it or not it is acceptable and everyone has that same opportunity.

Listen, despite what your opinion may or may not be the fact is that as long as this complies with the KHSAA rules and guidelines like it or not it is acceptable and everyone has that same opportunity.

I agree with your statement in part, except for the bold part above.  I'm not sure if a school district can legally say "no, you can not hold your child back".  I never was involved with a case that got to that point.  But some school districts will definitely frown on this, and try to resist as much as possible allowing a kid to be held back after the 3rd grade.  They will go as far as to say "no".  If a parent wanted to pursue it legally, I would think the district would back down, but I'm not sure.  From what I have learned this is a site based decision, and not all sites are as lenient on this as others.

I'm pretty sure that the KHSAA rules state that if you repeat a grade year you can't participate in athletics that year.  A lot of middle schools have that policy.  Holding your child back solely for athletics is ridiculous

back to the question asked originally ... Best in State.  I think you could make a case for either Fahy or Jude regardless of age.  Both were clearly dominant and very impressive wrestlers.  5 years undefeated and 5 MS state titles for fahy could be a record that stands for a long time and might never be broken.  Just below those 2 I would put Troxell, Cooper, Ray.  That would be my top 5.

seems to me the only eligibility rules were to be a Ky. resident and not 15 yrs. old before Aug. 1. No grades mentioned in eligibility that I see.

Sting if you are correct on that rule then I apologize for saying anything.I have 3 sons wrestling and have been to middle school state 4 times.I have heard of wrestlers holding back too wrestle in state but I have never heard of a 14 yr old freshman wrestling in it,so I assumed it could not be done.I would be interested in seeing these rules if you would post where to find them.

UBTAPPIN: you say" to hold a child back solely for athletics is ridiculous!" let me ask this.. What about some of theses kids that are 8th graders and are wrestling 75 or 82 lbs weight classes. What type of a high school experience are theses kids going to have based on the fact that they are so under sized in comparison to everyone else? its obvious that they most certainly will never step foot on the football field in high school until possibly their junior or senior year. not to mention wrestling 103 as a freshman only weighing maybe 90lbs or so. With boys sports do play a part in their self esteem and self confidence not to mention the fact of gym class getting dressed and undressed among your peers that are 30, 50 or maybe 70 to 80 lbs heavier due to this particular child not hitting puberty as early as most.. I respect your opinion but to make a statement like holding a child back solely for athletics is ridiculous, is a bit unfair. But once again, just my opinion

This thread has become ridiculous.  We saw some very good wrestling this weekend from some very talented young wrestlers, and all anyone can find to talk about is someone's age.  This group of state placers along with last years are going to produce many state champions in the next 4-8 years at the middle and high school level.  They're all the best in the state in my opinion.  The talent level across the state continues to rise, and the future of Kentucky wrestling look bright.

Jude, Ray, Cooper and Troxell have all had their share of varsity experience and they are certainly more mature young men than say John Fahey.  Cooper is only a 7th grader and is winning over half of his varsity matches.  Luke Troxell is also a force.  Jude and Ray are both very mature young men and its hard to distinguish their youth compared to some of the upper classmen.  However, I have seen John Fahey wrestle for the past 6 years drilling mostly with his younger brother and I am absolutely amazed at his wrestling skills.  Pound for pound when he starts wrestling at the high school level, he will be tough to beat.  At the middle school level he is obviously, unbeatable in Kentucky.  My vote goes to John Fahey.  Congratulations John on an outstanding middle school career.  He is the best of the best in middle school wrestling.  Congratulations to all the young men who won state titles this year. 

Well said RYLEDAD and I agree totally that John Fahy is a notch above anyone else in Middle School  wrestling in KY, as well as a very likeable young man. Congratulations John and good luck in High School as well as in National tournaments

UBTAPPIN: you say" to hold a child back solely for athletics is ridiculous!" let me ask this.. What about some of theses kids that are 8th graders and are wrestling 75 or 82 lbs weight classes. What type of a high school experience are theses kids going to have based on the fact that they are so under sized in comparison to everyone else? its obvious that they most certainly will never step foot on the football field in high school until possibly their junior or senior year. not to mention wrestling 103 as a freshman only weighing maybe 90lbs or so. With boys sports do play a part in their self esteem and self confidence not to mention the fact of gym class getting dressed and undressed among your peers that are 30, 50 or maybe 70 to 80 lbs heavier due to this particular child not hitting puberty as early as most.. I respect your opinion but to make a statement like holding a child back solely for athletics is ridiculous, is a bit unfair. But once again, just my opinion

What's unfair is all the middle school kids that don't repeat grade years, wrestle the weight class that they fall in to and then get beat at regions or state by kids that have been purposely held back, wrestling high school varsity all year and cutting 15 or 20 lbs.  I understand your point but I think that your example is a rare occurence.  We couldn't find 6th graders that weighed less than 82.  The more you try to accomodate legitimate concerns such as yours, the more others will just take advantage of the situation just to win at any cost.

and I agree, John Fahy, pound for pound is the man.

UBTAPPIN.  I can give you two kids that I know of just off the top of my head. Grant Palmer and Garth Yenter, both whom are very good wrestlers and good students but look at their weight. Both wrestled 82lbs as a 8th grader. If it falls in line with the KHSAA, and for the record my son is NOT a holdback kid, But if it is in line with the KHSAA guidelines, then apparently it is fair

What's unfair is all the middle school kids that don't repeat grade years, wrestle the weight class that they fall in to and then get beat at regions or state by kids that have been purposely held back, wrestling high school varsity all year and cutting 15 or 20 lbs.  I understand your point but I think that your example is a rare occurence.  We couldn't find 6th graders that weighed less than 82.  The more you try to accomodate legitimate concerns such as yours, the more others will just take advantage of the situation just to win at any cost.

and I agree, John Fahy, pound for pound is the man.

ubtappin,

Evidently you don't know the bylaws of the KHSAA.

If an athlete is HELD BACK, he is not able to compete at the high school level that year or he will lose a year of eligibility.  So therefore, these westlers you say are being held back in middle school would use up their eligibility before there senior year.  I don't know who you are referring to when you say wrestlers are being held back and wrestling high school all year.  That would be crazy.

ubtappin,

Evidently you don't know the bylaws of the KHSAA.

If an athlete is HELD BACK, he is not able to compete at the high school level that year or he will lose a year of eligibility.  So therefore, these westlers you say are being held back in middle school would use up their eligibility before there senior year.  I don't know who you are referring to when you say wrestlers are being held back and wrestling high school all year.  That would be crazy.

Well, it's not to hard to see.  Just look at last years state brackets and you'll see several kids that were listed as 8th graders last year.  They are wrestling high school this year and then came back down to middle school and wrestled regions and state.  ?????

UBTappin I started my comment because my oldest son wrestled middle school state last year at 124lbs ,he was 3rd ,and I saw two guys he wrestled last year as 8th graders wrestling this weekend and one of them won his weight class.We all have different perspectives let me share ours.My son John was 13 when he got 3rd and he hasn't had a grade point average under 92% in any class in 3 yrs ,he is a studious athlete.He has attended the same private school since 1rst grade and his brothers and sisters go there as well.The school doesn't have sports and that wasn't a problem in club level wrestling but now we had a highschooler and didn't want to change schools for sports.We checked for ways to have our school and wrestling too but in the end we lost. So my 14 year old freshman didn't compete this year because of the rules and our choice to not be impulsive and leave a school which has been excellent so far.We bought a large mat and invite any possible workout partner to train,we have a gym quality weight room,  went to 6 camps, and every possible open mat available.John has wrestled open mat with Dan Smith,Elliot Martin,Caleb Ervin and many other well known Kentucky wrestlers,and handled himself well with them.My point is he is a good wrestler who watched guys older than him wrestle state this weekend but he couldn't.Any parent who is on this site should know how difficult that was for John and me . On a better note Justin my 6th grader got 2nd this weekend 82lb and we were very pleased with his effort.We are seeking remedies for John and hope to see Kentucky's best on the mat this summer and get John on a team next year.

UBTappin I started my comment because my oldest son wrestled middle school state last year at 124lbs ,he was 3rd ,and I saw two guys he wrestled last year as 8th graders wrestling this weekend and one of them won his weight class.We all have different perspectives let me share ours.My son John was 13 when he got 3rd and he hasn't had a grade point average under 92% in any class in 3 yrs ,he is a studious athlete.He has attended the same private school since 1rst grade and his brothers and sisters go there as well.The school doesn't have sports and that wasn't a problem in club level wrestling but now we had a highschooler and didn't want to change schools for sports.We checked for ways to have our school and wrestling too but in the end we lost. So my 14 year old freshman didn't compete this year because of the rules and our choice to not be impulsive and leave a school which has been excellent so far.We bought a large mat and invite any possible workout partner to train,we have a gym quality weight room,  went to 6 camps, and every possible open mat available.John has wrestled open mat with Dan Smith,Elliot Martin,Caleb Ervin and many other well known Kentucky wrestlers,and handled himself well with them.My point is he is a good wrestler who watched guys older than him wrestle state this weekend but he couldn't.Any parent who is on this site should know how difficult that was for John and me . On a better note Justin my 6th grader got 2nd this weekend 82lb and we were very pleased with his effort.We are seeking remedies for John and hope to see Kentucky's best on the mat this summer and get John on a team next year.

I'm familiar with your son, he's a great wrestler, I hope you can find a way to get him back on the mat.

How many state champs this year were really highschool varsity wrestlers who just drop to wrestle regions and win state????

I noticed a few but I just wondered if anyone had a count on something like that.  Granted they have the right but it dosen't seem right. 

i do not see how you think it is unfair to wrestle varsity and wrestle middle school state! if your varsity squad is short wrestlers and a good middle schooler can fill the spot, why not let him or her.

How many state champs this year were really highschool varsity wrestlers who just drop to wrestle regions and win state????

I noticed a few but I just wondered if anyone had a count on something like that.  Granted they have the right but it doesn't seem right. 

Can you please explain why you think this is unfair?

I had a wrestler on my team do just that.  He did not qualify for state but he has wrestled varsity for us all year at 103lbs.  He weighs only about 95 but if he does not wrestle varsity matches then he will not wrestle at all.

It actually gave him a disadvantage.  We could not seed him at the regional tourney because he had not wrestled one middle school match. 

Two years ago we did the same thing with another wrestler.  He also was not seeded but he placed 4th and qualified for the state tourney. 

What I think is truly unfair are the club teams.  This year there were two club teams in our region. The only reason they were there was so that a few school teams could get their number 3 and 4 wrestlers into the regional tournaments. 

Any KYSWA information related to Age, Repeating grades, Clubs, etc is clearly listed in the Middle School By-Laws.  We meet twice annually in May and September.  Any proposed changes to the by-laws should be presented at the May meeting.  The coaches have agreed to participate in the Middle School organization guided by these By-laws.  The best method to voice your concerns about any issue related to middle school wrestling, is to contact your Regional Rep, and officer, or attend the meetings yourself if you are a Coach.

This was another outstanding State Tournament, and we should be proud of all the athletes that competed all year.

I think it all depends on how sucessful you are at the high school level.  I don't claim to be an expert on this but common sense sense tells me that if you are a very succesful wrestler in high school(state qualifier) then what is the point of taking state in middle school?  If the kid is in a situation where he is a fill in for his high school but is not the most sucessful then it is understandable.  I just personally know a couple oif kids who are eighth graders who would win state if they chose to compete but they don't because they would rather be challenged at the highschool level.  I guess it just depends.  Not every case can be viewed the same and I understand that.  I was never saying that is was unfair,  just that it didn't seem right.  I was thinking of High school varsity state qualifiers(who are in eighth) when I wrote it.  Didn't mean to offend anyone.  I didn't originally think about it from the other perspective.  Sorry about that.

The best method to voice your concerns about any issue related to middle school wrestling, is to contact your Regional Rep, and officer, or attend the meetings yourself if you are a Coach.

This was another outstanding State Tournament, and we should be proud of all the athletes that competed all year.

     Much like the rest of the political world the best way to get your concerns looked at is to allow the public know about them, and get their support for your cause.  This is why I mention this on this forum.

     I have not attended a meeting because I don't have the time since I both coach the high school team, any middle school kids I have, and have a son wrestle for another middle school team.  In many years we don't attend the middle school region because I either don't have a middle school kid or I don't have anyone who can take them to the event.  Therefore I don't believe that I have much of a voice in the association. 

     That does not mean that my concerns are not important.  I believe they are and I think they should be addressed.  Middle school wrestling has made great strides and we don't need to stop pushing forward, with new ideas and fixing problems when they arise.

I think it all depends on how sucessful you are at the high school level.  I don't claim to be an expert on this but common sense sense tells me that if you are a very succesful wrestler in high school(state qualifier) then what is the point of taking state in middle school?  If the kid is in a situation where he is a fill in for his high school but is not the most sucessful then it is understandable.  I just personally know a couple oif kids who are eighth graders who would win state if they chose to compete but they don't because they would rather be challenged at the highschool level.  I guess it just depends.  Not every case can be viewed the same and I understand that.  I was never saying that is was unfair,  just that it didn't seem right.  I was thinking of High school varsity state qualifiers(who are in eighth) when I wrote it.  Didn't mean to offend anyone.  I didn't originally think about it from the other perspective.  Sorry about that.

Please consider this from mine and my sons perspective. My son finished  4th in last years state tournament as a first year wrestler.  This only made him determined  to win middle school state.  So he went out and worked his tail off to get better.  The by-product of this  is he got good enough to wrestle varisty this year and he has had some level of succes at this level.  What I am I suppose to tell him sorry son you have got to good from hard work and you cannot wrestle at middle school now.  Tell me where this not right.

by far best ive seen is sean faluse hes a beat of a kid not even in middle school and was behind garth yenter last year he already won state and got like 3ed last year i cant wait to see this kid in high school  will be a monster i would hate to be in his weight