Not to many people on this site would of thoght this would of happend....  Corey Spencer of Johnson Central defeated both the the 3A and the 2A State Champion of WV. Spencer beat the State 3A state champion by a major decision 15-5 , and pinnrd the 1A/2A State Champion.  He also beat the 2nd, 3rd and 5th place finishers in this years state tournament.  IMO, Spencer, should of been MOW. 

Let me put things in a different perspective. There were 5 seniors ranked in the top 20 at 112 throughout the entire state. So, tell me again why this fellow should have been MOW.

First off, I won't get in to a shouting match over who should of have won MOW.  Courtney is derserving of the MOW, as is a few others. 

The finals match is what sticks out in most peoples mind the most.  And in most peoples mind Spencer did not defeat Sullivan.  Sullivan defeated Sullivan. 

What he accomplished throughout the season does not matter to most. 

Once again (we have had this discussion before) it depends on what you believe the MOW is.  I personally believe it is the best wrestler in the state tourney.  Can you honestly say that he is pound for pound on the same level as Courtney, Ervin, Reid or Peace.  Who I believe are the top 4 (in that order) in our state.

Spencer, undoubtedly, had the most difficult road to the state finals.  In the second round he defeated the 3rd placer, in the quarters he defeated the 6 placer, and in the semis defeated the 5th placer.  Most importantly, in the finals, he beat the 3 time undefeated state champ.  If the MOW goes to the wrestler with the most impressive tournament, then Spencer gets my vote. If it goes to the wrestler with the greatest career or season, then give it to somebody else. His state tournament run was tougher than anyone else's, and he faced an opponent who nobody could beat up until that point.  Courtney, Reid, Peace and Ervin are all incredible talents, and are very deserving of the award.  I too do not believe that  Spencer belongs on the same list as them.  But, at the 2008 Kentucky State Wrestling Tournament, he deserved the OW for capping off an impressive tournament run by doing the impossible in the finals.

Spencer, undoubtedly, had the most difficult road to the state finals.  In the second round he defeated the 3rd placer, in the quarters he defeated the 6 placer, and in the semis defeated the 5th placer.  Most importantly, in the finals, he beat the 3 time undefeated state champ.  If the MOW goes to the wrestler with the most impressive tournament, then Spencer gets my vote. If it goes to the wrestler with the greatest career or season, then give it to somebody else. His state tournament run was tougher than anyone else's, and he faced an opponent who nobody could beat up until that point.  Courtney, Reid, Peace and Ervin are all incredible talents, and are very deserving of the award.  I too do not believe that  Spencer belongs on the same list as them.  But, at the 2008 Kentucky State Wrestling Tournament, he deserved the OW for capping off an impressive tournament run by doing the impossible in the finals.

Bluegrass, I think you make a compelling case.

    I believe you must look at his overall wrestling, not who he defeated.  The award is called the "Most Outstanding Wrestler".  Not "Best in Tournament" award.

    If you believe this then all we have to do is look at the toughest weight class prior to wrestling, the winner of that wt. class will be named most outstanding wrestler.  Truth is most of the time there are between 2-5 wrestlers that coaches already know they are going to watch for this award. 

    I'm not in favor of the wrestler who gets the upset winning the award.  The state must be proud of their most outstand wrestler.  If you were to go to a wrestling meet with teh MOW you should be able to proudly say that is KY's best wrestler.  Not taking anything from Spencer I would want him on my team, but if we were picking the state champions to be on my team, he would not be my number 1 pick. 

it is my understanding that the award is also based on not who you beat but how bad you beat them. a kid who won by 1 point althe way to the finals then won by 2 or something versus a kid who pinned every kid then teched the kid in the finals. which one gets it? the kid that pinned. courtney dominated his kids all through the tourney then pinned sanders in the finals. spencer i didn't watch to much but i saw (what i think) was his match with dan smith, it was a very close match as was the rest of his. so that is why he didn't get it. all his matches were very close and had the potential for him to loose . none of courtney's matches even had the thought the he was going to loose. air-go MOW.

It is not who has the best year it is who wrestled the best at the state tournament that should get MOW.

If you want to give out an award for who had the best year then give out a Mr. Wrestler. Basketball does it so why not wrestling. They also give out a MVP at the state tounament to the player that has the tournament. This would give the wrestlers something else to work for. Just a thought!!!!

Let's look at Harrison's trip. Pin, Pin, 15-0,16-0,Pin. Did he even have a point scored against him? That is OUTSTANDING in my book and the coaches agreed.

Justin Davis beat the number 1 & 2 to win state.

Congrats to Spencer, he is tough, his glory will live forever as he toppled the great Travis Sullivan. Just like DC Evans blew the chance to topple the King.

Harrison Courtney is the greatest and most outstanding Ky wrestler I have ever seen.

Let's look at Harrison's trip. Pin, Pin, 15-0,16-0,Pin. Did he even have a point scored against him? That is OUTSTANDING in my book and the coaches agreed.

Justin Davis beat the number 1 & 2 to win state.

Congrats to Spencer, he is tough, his glory will live forever as he toppled the great Travis Sullivan. Just like DC Evans blew the chance to topple the King.

Harrison Courtney is the greatest and most outstanding Ky wrestler I have ever seen.

I tend to agree with you, Reb. The only wrestler IMHO who came close was Wolsifer. Did those two ever wrestle? I think Johnny was always in a heavier class.

I saw very little "wrestling" between Sullivan and Spencer. Stalling, fleeing, poor starts, bad form, and a generalized boring match. It reminded me of a basketball game between University of Cincinnati and UK many years ago. UC were the gross underdogs so their strategy was to stand at the half court line and pass the ball and stall. For 38 minutes  we saw UC do nothing but stall therefore very few points were scored by either team. UC kept the score close but were in no way as good as UK. Their strategy, keep it close then try to beat UK in the last 2-3 minutes of the game. UC lost. After that game, NCAA changed the rules limiting the offensive team to 45 seconds to score. This was done in order to make the game offensive and more exciting.

Spencer's strategy was very similiar. He kept it close by stalling and won it at the end. Great strategy, yes, great wrestling, absolutely not.

Lets help this blog out.

When the coaches are given the MVP ballot, it states that the only consideration for MVP is what is done in the State Tournament. No past accomplishments are to be considered. So all this he did this and he did that is not a factor in the decision.

     I believe you must look at his overall wrestling, not who he defeated.  The award is called the "Most Outstanding Wrestler".  Not "Best in Tournament" award.

     If you believe this then all we have to do is look at the toughest weight class prior to wrestling, the winner of that wt. class will be named most outstanding wrestler.  Truth is most of the time there are between 2-5 wrestlers that coaches already know they are going to watch for this award. 

     I'm not in favor of the wrestler who gets the upset winning the award.  The state must be proud of their most outstand wrestler.  If you were to go to a wrestling meet with teh MOW you should be able to proudly say that is KY's best wrestler.  Not taking anything from Spencer I would want him on my team, but if we were picking the state champions to be on my team, he would not be my number 1 pick. 

I can agree with you about not giving the award to the underdog who gets the upset.  But, an upset of this magnitude should be considered.  Scott Cooper won the OW after upsetting Luke Metzger in the finals.  I am pretty sure that upset factored into it.  As stated previously, I do not believe that Spencer is one of the best in the state, but he put together a gutsy state tournament run that involved overtimes, comeback victories, and upending the defending 3 time state champ.  There will never be a consensus on the criteria used to determine the MOW, however, maybe two awards should be given as somebody mentioned earlier:  a Mr. Wrestling for the best season, and then a tournament OW.  In the end, everyone is going to have a bias towards a particular wrestler. No point in trying to persuade others to vote one way or another.  Courtney is very deserving, and the best out state has to offer.  But for this tournament I would have voted for Spencer still.

I can agree with you about not giving the award to the underdog who gets the upset.  But, an upset of this magnitude should be considered.  Scott Cooper won the OW after upsetting Luke Metzger in the finals.  I am pretty sure that upset factored into it.  As stated previously, I do not believe that Spencer is one of the best in the state, but he put together a gutsy state tournament run that involved overtimes, comeback victories, and upending the defending 3 time state champ.  There will never be a consensus on the criteria used to determine the MOW, however, maybe two awards should be given as somebody mentioned earlier:  a Mr. Wrestling for the best season, and then a tournament OW.  In the end, everyone is going to have a bias towards a particular wrestler. No point in trying to persuade others to vote one way or another.  Courtney is very deserving, and the best out state has to offer.  But for this tournament I would have voted for Spencer still.

The big difference is that Scott Cooper was defending state champ who had already proven himself.  "Upsetting" Metzger probably didn't surprise everybody.

The big difference is that Scott Cooper was defending state champ who had already proven himself.  "Upsetting" Metzger probably didn't surprise everybody.

Sure surpised me after Metzger beat him 10-0 at state duals that year  :roll:

Sure surpised me after Metzger beat him 10-0 at state duals that year   :roll:

Roll your eyes all you want, but I'm just saying I bet there were a number of people who would have taken Cooper in that one.  By the way, one of the greatest finals matches in Ky wrestling history.

Roll your eyes all you want, but I'm just saying I bet there were a number of people who would have taken Cooper in that one.  By the way, one of the greatest finals matches in Ky wrestling history.

Oh, I will agree with you on that.  It was one of the best finals matches I have ever witnessed...

Ranger you took the words right out of my mouth.

I will bet that many coaches had already decided that the winner of that match had a huge advantage of being MOW.  I for one was one that believed Cooper could/would win that match.

I saw very little "wrestling" between Sullivan and Spencer. Stalling, fleeing, poor starts, bad form, and a generalized boring match. It reminded me of a basketball game between University of Cincinnati and UK many years ago. UC were the gross underdogs so their strategy was to stand at the half court line and pass the ball and stall. For 38 minutes  we saw UC do nothing but stall therefore very few points were scored by either team. UC kept the score close but were in no way as good as UK. Their strategy, keep it close then try to beat UK in the last 2-3 minutes of the game. UC lost. After that game, NCAA changed the rules limiting the offensive team to 45 seconds to score. This was done in order to make the game offensive and more exciting.

Spencer's strategy was very similiar. He kept it close by stalling and won it at the end. Great strategy, yes, great wrestling, absolutely not.

how does one win the state championship without great wrestling? yes the match was boring and uneventful, but does that give the right to say that it wasnt good wrestling?

how does one win the state championship without great wrestling? yes the match was boring and uneventful, but does that give the right to say that it wasnt good wrestling?

If you were at the state tournement then you saw it twice.  In the 112 finals and in the 152 finals.

If you were at the state tournement then you saw it twice.  In the 112 finals and in the 152 finals.

All hard feelings aside I have to agree with you on this one, especially 152.  Thank god I was getting Ethan and Blake ready to wrestle and did not have to watch these matches in their entirety.

If you were at the state tournement then you saw it twice.  In the 112 finals and in the 152 finals.

yes they were boring match but still its the fact they made it to the finals of the state tournament and either did what choate or spencer did and win, while during other rounds of the state tourney beating some very good wrestler such as choate beating ashbrook and spencer beating carpenter so yes they had boring matches but they are the best wrestlers in the state

All hard feelings aside I have to agree with you on this one, especially 152.  Thank god I was getting Ethan and Blake ready to wrestle and did not have to watch these matches in their entirety.

All hard feelings aside, Ethan and Blake didn't look that ready on the mat.

All hard feelings aside, Ethan and Blake didn't look that ready on the mat.

Oh snap :-o

All hard feelings aside, Ethan and Blake didn't look that ready on the mat.

All hard feelings aside, Ethan and Blake didn't look that ready on the mat.

Lol that was a good one, I guess I set myself up for it though.  Although I thought Ethan wrestled a pretty tough match against a two-time state champ.  One who he has wrestled many times and they know each other fairly well.  Also I don't think Blake did that badly considering who he was wrestling.  Many people on here have claimed Ervin to be the best wrestler in the state pound for pound and Blake kept it to a regular decision.

I was just joking.  Ethan really suprised me this year, I never thought he would of been in the run for the championship at the beginning of the season.  I always knew Blake was good enough to be top 3, he just had to get healthy.  Them two kids have no reason to hang their heads. 

How 'bout if we applaud the fact that Spensor represented his state with class and victory by beating some quality oppenents from WV. Debating MOW once again is a waste of time since it will not be changed. At this point you're just splitting hairs to find a reason why someone should have or shouldn't have been MOW along with upsetting a few folks for no real reason.

as i recall MOW goes to the kid who did the best at one tournament not how he did over the whole season. not only that but courtney who pinned and teched his whole way through did a lot better than just winning by a few every time. i mean sure spencer "beat" sullivan but if you were there and you watched the match sullivan beat sullivan. how could you consider spencer over courtney who just won state 3 times and other contenders like reid and m. ervin and peace who all won it for the second time. one win does not make and MOW however someone needs to tell beau sanders to shave his unibro it doesnt seem to work  :mrgreen:

as i recall MOW goes to the kid who did the best at one tournament not how he did over the whole season. not only that but courtney who pinned and teched his whole way through did a lot better than just winning by a few every time. i mean sure spencer "beat" sullivan but if you were there and you watched the match sullivan beat sullivan. how could you consider spencer over courtney who just won state 3 times and other contenders like reid and m. ervin and peace who all won it for the second time. one win does not make and MOW however someone needs to tell beau sanders to shave his unibro it doesnt seem to work  :mrgreen:

What does Courtney, Reid, Ervin, or Peace winning multiple state titles have to do with this year's MOW?    I thought it just has to do with who does the best at one tourney.  But I agree, Courtney deserved it.

Spencer had the hardest road to go, just realize that. He knows, I respect that, he doesn't have the hardware to say it. Colleges will look at ability and stability, not MOW. There were so many kids that were not in first and shocked people that were my MOW just because they beat people they were not supposed too. It is all good!

Good luck guys in 2008' 09'. I want to see some good matches

Can't wait!