I find it appauling that you can not find the results to tournaments. Almost every tournament that you go to today is done on the computer. How difficult is it for the tournament director (coach of the home school) to send this information to the KWCA or to someone who will send the information out?

Many times we have to rely on second hand information who sometimes don't have the information correct or does not have all the information.

How wonderful would it be to be able to download the entire tournament onto your computer. Coaches and fans could then look this over anytime they wanted. It would also make Ranger's and Mr. Coomes (the one who makes the KWCA rankings) life so much easier.

Just me ranting. I would like to see the results of the 5-star, TCI, Big East, WCI, Bourbon Bash, ect. ect. and not just the finals who placed who defeated who in the simi's.

i agree with grappler it would be nice to view entire tournament results with ease.

Grappler,

I agree to a point. We have discussed this on here before about the lack of results published and the lack of coverage by local media.

It seems like its up to the Coaches to get this accomplished. I guess that would be the KWCA? If they want it done they seem like the logical group to make it happen. I guess the other alternative would be for the KWCA to work with a site like this one to help.

With the effort being put forth to develop and grow the sport in the state I think the KWCA would be smart to put more focus on gaining exposure with the public. Publishing results, rankings, schedules and other important information about the sport to all the major newspapers and websites and improving their website to be more user friendly for coaches to publish their results. The ranks in the middle schools continue to grow and I think the High School numbers are growing as a result of the middle school effort.

I live in Louisville so all I really see regarding media coverage is the Courier Journal, They have done a better job this year than in the past but there is still alot being missed. Some of the information they report when writing about upcoming tournaments has been outdated or inaccurate but I think its a result of the information they have been provided, such as the preseason rankings. They published today, the latest rankings from the KWCA, I think these are the 1/10 rankings and I dont think they had published any rankings since the preseason rankings. I thnk thats about 6 weeks of no updated rankings, basically half the season. Theres a lot of opportunities for more rankings to have been published. This would help the public be more aware of high school wrestling. The other side of the lack of information issue is the kids are more difficult to track by fans and college coaches. I know most recruiting is done during the off season, but I also know that college coaches just like fans read everything they see about wrestling. Remember the old saying "Out of sight out of mind"? The more times they see KY wrestling information the better for the kids and the sport.

I know up here in Nky the Ky coverage gets overshadowed by Ohio coverage. I don't even think the Conner tournament was posted in the local papers.

I do however know that almost every dual meet in Ohio is published in the papers. I know that the papers up here will not publish results when its small teams against large teams. Example: Ryle Vs Holmes or Campbell Vs Newport. They do not want to print restults that are mostly forfeits. Both Newport and Holmes only have about 5-7 kids on the varsity teams.

As for getting the results. I was referring to any web site. As you mentionsed the KWCA is the logical answer to this.

My point is that each tournament director could easily send this info to Mr. Coomes at KWCA. Why do the coaches fail to do this?

Our area coverage is poor at best.

The news enterprise started with a great article about the teams preseason report, since then we are lucky to get the team scores.

I don't even think one photo has been in the paper about a wrestler.

I haven't seen any feature's about the top ranked wrestlers or teams.

It is the coaches’ responsibility to submit the data or his representative. Some do, other don't.

The KWCA site is poorly represented.

This is NOT COACH COOMES fault.

NO one is sending him the results to post.

I agree the site would be a great place to publish the results. They could devise the site so all member coaches are assigned a password so they could post the results themselves. Seems like that would take alot of the work off of one man and spread it out among the coaches.

Grappler: You have many good ideas and should voice your opinion to the KWCA or someone like that

I think a big problem is there is no one place to submit results for wrestling. For a tournament, you'd also have to decide what results you want to publish. Finals results? Place winners? All matches? Etc.

It would certainly be nice to be able to get all the tournament mgrs to send their results to one place.

If only we could get results like that posted on the high school results page--------2006 Western Brown - Hammer & Anvil Score---given just about everything but the ref names, go BODYLOCK

If only we could get results like that posted on the high school results page--------2006 Western Brown - Hammer & Anvil Score---given just about everything but the ref names' date=' go [u']BODYLOCK

That's because Ohio media respect and support wrestling.

The courier journal had an article reference trininty winning the dragon.

Nothing from the news enterprize reference the North Hardin Tournament or Middle school regions held in Larue :cry:

DAWG6,

Being a member of the Hardin County Wolverines, I know some of the guys at The News-Enterprise and I appreciate the coverage they give us. Many papers couldn't care less about semi-pro football.

With that said, I think guys like Kendrick Johnson (the Wolverines' president, founder and coach) and assistant coach B.J. Bell (media/public relations) understand what you have to do to get it in the paper.

My question is, did anybody from the North Hardin or LaRue County e-mail the results to the paper? Fax? Call them in? Drop them off on the way home? Did anybody take it upon themselves to let the paper know who was coming to these tournaments or what the schedule of events was? If you don't do any of that, blame yourself, not the paper. They didn't send a writer to ANY of the high school basketball games that appeared on page 4, yet there was like a 750-word writeup on all of those games.

The News-Enterprise does a better job than most papers at getting in ALL sports in there (although I need to convince my niece's swim coach to drop off a copy of their results once in a @#$% while).

You can click for past wrestling results that have appeared in the News-Enterprise (change the .txt to .prt at the end of the specific links so you don't have to register: http://www.thenewsenterprise.com/shared-content/search/index.php?search=go&o=0&q=prep+wrestling&d1=10-30-2005&d2=01-22-2006&s=recent&r=Subject%2CAuthor%2CContent&l=100

As far as one place to get results, that's a great idea. The track and cross country coaches have figured that out with their web site, www.KTCCCA.org

HCWolverines06,

I totally agree with you.

The results were sent in, to late to get posted today.

The sport's editor knew about the event, so we will see if their any photo's.

Yes, some of the coaches are lagging on submitting results.

The sports editor has all the school schedules, yet how many photo's have you seen with wrestlers :?:

John, North, Central and LaRue have all hosted tournments and NOT ONE photo :!:

Hardin County has some of the top ranked kids in the state and they battle every Wednesday night @ 6:00,

How many features have been in the paper reference wrestling :?:

A couple sentences about John Hardins 125 not being ranked high enough, the North Kid that messed up his knee again.

I have only seen wrestling photo's twice, both in the same paper of a North Dual on the front side and a smaller photo on the inside.

A sports editor says that there is No interested in wrestling so they cover what people want to read :roll:

I have written and called the paper, the sports editors, now have taken it personnal.

The news paper editor says yes, they have room to improve and include all the smaller sports programs, swimming, ect. but I haven't seen a change.

Please tell your friends at the paper, people do care about wrestling and want more than the box score.

Middle school state wrestling championships is at Central Hardin in a week, see what coverage they get?

I'm bitter because I tried to seek change the right way and now we get even less coverage :!:

HCWolverines06,

How is it that the Courier Journal (Louisville has the results) but our local paper doesn't :?:

Yesterday at North Hardin H.S.

Team scores – Seneca 219 ½, North Hardin 191, Anderson County 171 ½, Oldham County 171 ½, John Hardin 125, Central Hardin 118, Fort Knox 79 ½, Fairdale 60 ½, Moore 58, Trinity 56, Nelson County 50, LaRue County 48, Covington Holmes 32, Danville 25, North Hardin 'B' 14, Iroquois 4.

I don't think the Courier-Journal was at the North Hardin Invitational (they were at South Oldham's), so my guess is somebody called/faxed/e-mailed them the results early enough to get them in the paper.

I doubt anybody called or faxed or e-mailed Chuck or Nathaniel or Adam at the paper last night. Whenever we play games on Saturday nights, we have to get the results to them by 11 p.m. to make Sunday's edition.

I guess no one got The News-Enterprise the results in time, but yet they somehow remembered to get them to The Courier-Journal.

The North coach said the results will be in tomorrow's paper.

Seneca is from louisville and won the tournament so who knows :roll:

It would just be nice to see some of the local coverage improve.

DAWG6,

Do "people" really care about wrestling, or is it more the competitors/coaches and immediate family and friends?

When we first started out they covered us to see what it was like, and then we didn't have much fans, they wouldn't show up or do anything more on us until there were bigger crowds.

Thats the thing about wrestling, swimming, tennis, track and cross country. The fan support just isn't there. Girls basketball games in our area draw 1,000-2,000 fans per game (maybe more when Central and E'town play), but I don't think there has EVER been that many paying fans for any wrestling event in this area. Thus, until wrestling's popularity grows (meaning more fans at matches and tournaments to prove this) or teams other than LaRue County get extremely good (North Hardin is doing good work catching up, but Central, John and Knox have a LONG, LONG way to go) the wrestling coverage isn't going to change.

As far as changing the guys' minds at the paper, that will take some work. If I were them, I would be pissed if I saw that someone called the results into my rival 45 miles up the road but didn't call/e-mail/fax them into me). Coaches should always turn in results from tournaments/matches the day of (NOT THE DAY AFTER). You also need to notify them if a match has been scheduled or changed. That's not rocket science, that's common courtesy.

HCWolverinees:

This is a "Chicken or the egg" syndrome. The newspaper won't cover wrestling events until they draw more fans, wrestling events can't get more fans without newspaper coverage.

A basketball game lasts about 2 hours. A wrestling tournament lasts about 12 hours or more. There may not be 1,000 fans in a gym for all 12 hours of the event, but my guess is that at many of these events they come close to this over the day. Coaches have trouble getting those results to papers that night because they usually don't leave the gym until 10-12 that night.

With all this said. I still believe that newspapers can still spare a few lines on Wednesdays and Sundays for wrestling information. I'm not sure about your local paper, but when they can find open lines for local bowling league scores, I’m sure they can find lines for wrestling results.

If the local coaches have not sent their schedules to the paper then they have failed, but if they have then the paper has failed. How can your local teams get a fan base if they are not notified of when the events occur? I'll bet that every football, basketball, and baseball game is advertised in the paper. Why can't the smaller sports get the same courtesy?

grappler-of-old,

Our local paper (The News-Enterprise in Elizabethtown) prints results from Wednesday's matches on page 2 every Thursday. They usually even throw a photo of mat on the front page and let readers know where to find the results (and occasionally list who won on the front). Everyday on page 2, there is a list of that day's events and the next day's events, letting people know when and where the next wrestling matches are. The results also appear online for free the next day (paper copy costs 50 cents). The local public access tv station even broadcast a match LIVE earlier this season (although they did not make enough advertising money to support it).

And unlike basketball, every wrestler is listed as long as they competed (when was the last time you saw a basketball story/boxscore mention the first and last name of every player?).

Sadly, some coaches do not take advantage of this (turn in the results late or not at all), so its hard to argue that you deserve MORE coverage when you can't/don't accept the coverage they offer to give you.

I know from experience that If I forgot/didn't call after a game, they would be hesitant to ever print us again (bottom line, do not, under any circumstance, blow them off. Especially on Saturdays. Since Sunday is the most-read edition for most newspapers, that's the day you especially want your results in there! So whhy not report them?).

As far as needing the newspaper's coverage to boost fans, that's not entirely true. The newspaper usually previewed my semi-pro football team's games as well as the local minor league basketball team's games, but the fans still didn't show. The UK, Louisville and Western Kentucky women's teams are all very good this season and receive a good amount of newspaper/radio/internet and tv news coverage, but fans aren't exactly jumping out of the woodwork to watch them play (thus they don't receive near the amount of coverage as the men's teams do).

In order to get more coverage, you MUST PROVE you deserve it. Give them reasons why. Give them a story that will win them awards and non-wrestling fans will read if they just take the time to write it.

Just telling them your coverage sucks and you need to do more" is far from a good reason.

Wolverine;

If this is true then I applaude your local paper, this is much more than the local papeer gives Nky wrestling.

Nky on average has many of the top teams in the state and on average have one of the toughest regions in state. However the events and results of thier success are limited to the NKAC tournament, possibly the Regional tourney, and the state tourney.

As for you Hardin Co. people. If this is the type of coverage you are recieving then you are one of the lukcy ones.

DAWG6' date='

Do "people" really care about wrestling, or is it more the competitors/coaches and immediate family and friends?

When we first started out they covered us to see what it was like, and then we didn't have much fans, they wouldn't show up or do anything more on us until there were bigger crowds.

Thats the thing about wrestling, swimming, tennis, track and cross country. The fan support just isn't there. Girls basketball games in our area draw 1,000-2,000 fans per game (maybe more when Central and E'town play), but I don't think there has EVER been that many paying fans for any wrestling event in this area. Thus, until wrestling's popularity grows (meaning more fans at matches and tournaments to prove this) or teams other than LaRue County get extremely good (North Hardin is doing good work catching up, but Central, John and Knox have a LONG, LONG way to go) the wrestling coverage isn't going to change.

As far as changing the guys' minds at the paper, that will take some work. If I were them, I would be pissed if I saw that someone called the results into my rival 45 miles up the road but didn't call/e-mail/fax them into me). Coaches should always turn in results from tournaments/matches the day of (NOT THE DAY AFTER). You also need to notify them if a match has been scheduled or changed. That's not rocket science, that's common courtesy.[/quote']

Wow! I thought part of the job of my newspaper was to report news to its subscribers. I could care less about attending most major league events but I still read about them each morning and expect my newspaper to keep on reporting it. I think the subscribers expect their papers to report on high school competition in their community, regardless of how many people go through the admission gate. Whether they have friends or relation involved there is a level of interest within the community.

Overall I think the CJ does a good job, they send a reporter out to the larger tournaments in the area and interview coaches and wrestlers, thats good coverage. They report the dual scores and the rankings when they receive them. But thats where the problem lies, most times information is not reported. The coaches could stand to improve their communication efforts with the media and on their website.

Wow! I thought part of the job of my newspaper was to report news to its subscribers. I could care less about attending most major league events but I still read about them each morning and expect my newspaper to keep on reporting it. I think the subscribers expect their papers to report on high school competition in their community' date=' regardless of how many people go through the admission gate. Whether they have friends or relation involved there is a level of interest within the community.

Overall I think the CJ does a good job, they send a reporter out to the larger tournaments in the area and interview coaches and wrestlers, thats good coverage. They report the dual scores and the rankings when they receive them. But thats where the problem lies, most times information is not reported. The coaches could stand to improve their communication efforts with the media and on their website.[/quote']

Yes and no. Take Louisville for example. The Courier-Journal covers the University of Louisville very hard (often sending multiple writers, columnists and photographers with the Cardinals whenever, whoeever and where ever they play). Spalding and Bellarmine are also in the Courier-Journal's back yard, but they will never get the amount of coverage that U of L does. Those schools rarely draw more than 2,000 fans, but Louisville can sell like 2,000 $20 tickets in like an hour. Spalding and Bellarmine will still be covered, but not to the extent that Louisville is.

Wrestling in this state is like what Bellarmine and Spalding are to Louisville. Basketball (high school and the nearby college, whether Evansville, Louisville, UK or Cincinnati) will always dominate the coverage. The other winter sports (wrestling, swimming and indoor track) should be mentioned, but NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to the extent that basketball does.

Unfortunately for those who participate in "minor sports" such as wrestling, swimming, track, tennis, cross country, golf and volleyball, newspapers, TV stations, radio stations and web sites, the media doesn't have to adhere to Title IX. They don't have to give all sports or all genders equal coverage.

Fan support is the No. 1 judge of talent of where a newspaper should invest its time. Football and basketball have tons of fan support, thus those two sports get a ton of coverage.

I know its different in states like Iowa and Ohio, but not only is the wrestling in those states far better than Kentucky, the level of interest is far greater than it is in Kentucky.

Wrestling programs in Kentucky should take what their local paper gives them. If you can't even call/fax/e-mail/drop off the results of a match/tournament on the same day it happened, what reason could the newspaper possibly have for adding to their coverage ... if you do not cooperate with them, they WILL NOT cooperate with you.

DAWG6,

1) There was a photo of a LaRue wrestler a few weeks back. It was called "Carmen Chameleon" and it ran on the back page in color.

2) Photographers usually take Wednesdays off, since they usually shoot Friday nights for basketball, Saturday, Sunday and Monday for news and basketball on Tuesday and Thursday. You gotta remember that they only have two photographers for the WHOLE newspaper, yet they have three sports writers, five news writers and two features writers. Photographers are usually overworked and need some time off. Wednesday night is usually it.

3) Just because you are interviewed doesn't mean a story will come from it or ANY of your quotes will even be used.

4) You might want more coverage, but you are not going to get it unless coaches cooperate. None of the five schools the News-Enterprise covers decided to call/e-mail/fax/drop-off their results in a timely fashion on Saturday, but yet the results somehow were given to its RIVAL? I don't get it. How does that happen? Like I said earlier, if you don't at least give them the minimum (NO EXCUSE for not getting them results, they SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GIVE YOU MORE (photo, column, feature on wrestler/coach/team).

DAWG6,

My guess is you are a bit miffed that they didn't cover the North Hardin Invitational.

Let's see:

- Chuck got an award in Lexington Friday night and covered the UK game there Saturday afternoon, so he wasn't available.

- Adam covered the Fort Knox-Central Hardin basketball doubleheader on Friday, so in addition to those two stories, he also had the COnnecticut-Louisville basketball game on Saturday night. So he wasn't available.

- That leaves Nate, who stayed behind in the office to produce pages, read stories, crop/edit photos and get the results of events they didn't cover (although none of the wrestling folks took advantage of that, UNLIKE their basketball counterparts).

The photographer (usually only one works on a Saturday) was at the funeral of the JH kid that died of cancer, I believe.

So what do you expect them to do?

The paper didn't cover the Wolverines' early afternoon signing meeting, or the Central Hardin girls' basketball game against top-10 Christian Academy-Louisville.

Wrestling coaches should realize that if you schedule a match/tournament on the same day that BOTH Louisville and Kentucky play at home, it is going to be real difficult for you to get any type of coverage. Louisville and Kentucky are their cash cows, thus that's where they'll be.

My only guess to how your rival got the info was that they except results later then you guys do. 11:00 P.M. is early for many of the larger tournaments to get their info in by. Like I said it is not unusual for tournaments to finish close to that time. I know in Nky they will except scores at any time, you may have to leave it on a recorder but they will except them, and many times you can still get a person at 2 A.M.

Not a rip on your paper just an observation. Like I siad if you are posting all the results given to you, I think you are doing a decent job.

DAWG6' date='

My guess is you are a bit miffed that they didn't cover the North Hardin Invitational.

Let's see:

- Chuck got an award in Lexington Friday night and covered the UK game there Saturday afternoon, so he wasn't available.

- Adam covered the Fort Knox-Central Hardin basketball doubleheader on Friday, so in addition to those two stories, he also had the COnnecticut-Louisville basketball game on Saturday night. So he wasn't available.

- That leaves Nate, who stayed behind in the office to produce pages, read stories, crop/edit photos and get the results of events they didn't cover (although none of the wrestling folks took advantage of that, UNLIKE their basketball counterparts).

The photographer (usually only one works on a Saturday) was at the funeral of the JH kid that died of cancer, I believe.

So what do you expect them to do?

The paper didn't cover the Wolverines' early afternoon signing meeting, or the Central Hardin girls' basketball game against top-10 Christian Academy-Louisville.

Wrestling coaches should realize that if you schedule a match/tournament on the same day that BOTH Louisville and Kentucky play at home, it is going to be real difficult for you to get any type of coverage. Louisville and Kentucky are their cash cows, thus that's where they'll be.[/quote']

I totally understand everything written above, I understand they can't cover everthing equally and basketball is the cash cow.

But what about: the Central Hardin Duals :?:

The LaRue Duals :?:

John Hardin "Turkey Classic" :?:

Each school host one major event and none of them were covered. The sports editor could have sellect one event to cover.

We have the Middle School State Championships in a week and Regional Championships @ John Hardin the 11 Feb.

Either this traffic will generate some coverage or none at all.

Highly doubtful you'll get anything in about the middle school state tournament. They don't cover the middle school cross country or golf state tournaments, so I wouldn't assume wrestling would be different. Middle schools are less of a priority than high schools are. And if the middle school coaches haven't turned in ANY results this year, they shouldn't get any coverage NOW. To get some, you've got to give some. Since the middle school coaches haven't given them any results or information, they' ain't getting any coverage. That's a rule of thumb for most people in the media.

As far as regionals, you'll probably get it. Much more tempting to drive to John or Central Hardin then spend all day at Danville or Anderson County. They did a good job last time regionals were at Central and the year Knox had it.

When you say the middle school state tourney will not get anything in, are you saying the results won't be printed? Or are you just referring to an article of some type?

Results on all events should be essential for all newspapers in my opinion. It should not be difficult to find a few lines to print the results in the local paper. I'm not talking about a huge article with pictures and such. Just a spot on the sports page listing the results and the team finishes.

If we could just get this it would be a start. We can move up from there. Anything more than that I believe must be earned. Anything less than this is poor local coverage.

Wolverine,

I am starting to sense you have a role in the newspaper. If so you could be the ice breaker!

Whether you are or not, we are asking for coverage. If your not the man please pass it on to your contacts. The middle school state tournament is being held in your own back yard, great opportunity to take the lead and give your customers what they are asking for from its newspaper. Middle School wrestling would make a great story, from the sports angle or as a human interest piece. Wrestling is a growing trend, as a sport in KY it is a great story to tell how it is expanding with new programs and an increasing number of kids. How many middle schools have added wrestling in the last few years? How many high school programs have been added? Have you heard of the wrestling clubs being established around the state? Just call K. Smith, of N Hardin about the growing interest in the USAW ranks? How the state now has two collegiate programs with the recent addition of Campbellsville. Is the public aware of the recent success of both programs at the National Duals? How many KY colleges have wrestling as a club sport? Which college will be the next to add wrestling as a competitive sport. Are KY kids wrestling in college? Are they getting scholarships? Yes and Yes. Parents (readers/subscribers) like to hear about these things.

Wrestling relates to other sports!

Have you noticed the popularity of UFC and the relationship it has to wrestling? What about Real Pro Wrestling? What about the alternative as a sport to basketball that wrestling offers to kids not gifted enough to have the size to play basketball. What about the advantage that wrestlers have when they play football. The NFL is full of players who wrestled in high school and/or college. The leverage that is learned and the speed and strength that is developed on the mat translates well on the football field. Alot of football coaches in KY discourage their football players from wrestling, but check the trends in other football dominant states, alot more football players are wrestling in OH, CAL, TX, IL. KY is behind the times in this area, its time to bring this state up to speed.

Wrestling is the oldest Olympic sport. Its a natural for kids to wrestle.

The benefits of kids learning to compete one on one, with no excuses. There's not many sports teaching the discipline that comes with wrestling. With all the distractions kids deal with today, I think parents would love to find out about this sport.

There are alot of things to report on wrestling. Its a great sport that your public is missing out on!

grappler-of-old,

The results will certainly be printed, if someone does indeed turn them in. As far as a story or photo, probably not.

And I agree with you on your thoughts. Results are a must, but coaches/statkeepers/parents must be willing to turn them in. It's ridiculous when a girls' basketball team can fax stats from California or Meade County (which isn't really in The News-Enterprise's coverage area) can call in stats from Florida, but wrestling coaches forget/refuse to turn in results just once or twice a week. And I agree it must be earned, but wrestling teams won't earn it if they keep badmouthing them or ignoring them. The paper will just ignore them back and give them little coverage, if any at all.

-----

eville dad,

I have a role in the paper ... in a way. I am an immediate family member of someone who has a HUGE role, and I know a few other folks that have major roles, too. So I know how they think. I've been in that office many a time.

With that said, the paper won't do anything about the middle schools NOW if the middle schools have ignored them ALL SEASON LONG. Middle school basketball, junior pro/youth/little league basketball and indoor golf and indoor tennis people turn in results all the time, but I guess it hasn't crossed any of the middle school coaches minds that they should too. So now when you want and think you deserve the most coverage (since this is the highlight of the season), you are not going to get it. Like I said earlier, if you don't cooperate with them, they will never cooperate with you in the future.

In order to get more coverage, you have to prove you are worthy of the coverage you are already getting. It's like a ladder: You want to get to the top, but you have to use the lower rungs to get there first. Some (not all) of the coaches in our area don't want to use the lower rungs when they are easily available, so they'll never get to the top no matter how much they complain, how much they call or how many e-mails or letters they fire off.

Ignoring the paper when they invite you to turn in the results (with no charge, no less) is like a slap in the face. Slap them one too many times and they may never deal with you again.

Some wrestling people feel they deserve more coverage, and I can agree with that. However, the wrestling folks are sitting at the bargaining table with no leverage to use.

Getting match/tournament results in the paper is not difficult at all: All you have to do is be willing to turn them in.

Thanks,

eville dad & grappler-of-old and your not from Hardin County :wink:

eville dad you said a ton. I hope HCWolverines06 can assist us or maybe get our point of view across to the local news media.

It appears HCWolverines06 knows the right people, maybe with his concern he can generate some attention.

I hear your argument and I agree the coaches can do a better job of communicating to the media. But I dont understand the resentment of the paper against a group made up mostly of volunteers trying to help kids within your community.

I am just trying to point out various levels of interest that could be reported on that might appeal to your readers. I think overall readers appreciate good reporting and enjoy reading more stories about people they know from their own areas versus stories about people from far away that they cant relate to and could ultimately result in more newspapers being sold.

My point is wrestling is a very interesting story that I think your readers would enjoy learning about. With all the various ways of obtaining news today, TV, radio, internet, wire services. email services, newspapers are no longer the sole source for the news nor even the most up to date source, but they are still a relied upon and heavily utilized source for news and relaxation.

I appreciate your comments and whatever support you can provide to the subscribers in your community.

It's not a resentment, per se. The paper doesn't cover all 17 area varsity basketball teams, but it usually able to get results for all (or most) 17 teams when they play (Because hoops coaches understand that if you want something in the paper, you might want to turn it in). Basketball coaches are volunteers (or do it for little pay) just like wrestling coaches.

But the resentment is there when there are four ways to turn in results (phone call, e-mail, fax or drop off a hard copy of the results) and coaches choose to do NONE of the four. Coaches act like turning in results is not a big deal, but then they turn around and act like the small coverage they are given is a big deal. You can't have it both ways.

This past weekend, four area teams competed to my knowledge. NONE turned in results.

Last weekend, four teams competed. Only one turned them in in a timely fashion.

One out of eight is hardly justifiable for deserving more coverage. Unless they start accepting what's right in front of them, they'll never get more. Bottom line. Plain and simple. No arguing.

The paper takes results up until 11 p.m. on Saturdays and midnight every other day. Not that hard to make.

The News-Enterprise has won awards for its wrestling coverage in the past. A few years back, a pair of brothers wrestled each other in the regional tournament and that story was named the top sports story of the year for any daily paper in Kentucky. Also about 3-4 years ago, a story about North Hardin's female coach was picked up and ran by The Associated Press (part of the story even got a brief mention in the USA Today and New York Times).

The writers will put in the time and effort if it is warranted, but by the coaches choosing to ignore them, they are saying it is definitely not warranted.

There are three ways to improve the situation:

1) Turn in all results from now on (no excuses whatsoever) as soon as possible

2) Apologize or give reasons about why previous results were not reported.

3) Stop badmouthing them in e-mails, letters, phone calls or message boards/forums. Being hurtful is not the way to get what you want. It is perfectly acceptable to complain, but do it an adult-like fashion and without insulting them. Back your beliefs with facts and not by telling them "you suck" or "you don't care" or "you won't change". If you keep acting like that, you're right, they won't change.

Maybe the coaches need to take it upon themselves to change first before the paper does.

Sounds to me like wrestling stories make good print and win awards!

Why would a paper want to run those kinds of stories?

What ever happened to reporting?

LaRue County had FULL gym on Saturday for Middle School Regions. All day.

The crowd at a wrestling match will always be equal to or bigger than a basketball,softball or baseball game.

Maybe the reason behind no stories in The News Enterprise is nobody there likes this sport.

The Hearld News in Hodgenville runs at least 1/2 page each week.

Are these two papers not owned by the same people.

Stories can not be shared across these papers?

Do not put all the blame on Coaches, Let somebody at News Enterprise do their job.

HCWolverines06,

I guess you have facts from the paper to say the coaches haven't turned in results:

This past weekend, four area teams competed to my knowledge. NONE turned in results.

Last weekend, four teams competed. Only one turned them in a timely fashion.

Then we are being miss lead, the coaches indicated they have turned in results.

The News-Enterprise has won awards for its wrestling coverage in the past. A few years back, a pair of brothers wrestled each other in the regional tournament and that story was named the top sports story of the year for any daily paper in Kentucky. Also about 3-4 years ago, a story about North Hardin's female coach was picked up and ran by The Associated Press (part of the story even got a brief mention in the USA Today and New York Times).

Those articles are great, but as you indicated they are 3 or 4 years old. What coverage did the two state runner-ups get last year :?: If you don't win it all you just get a line that you were the first loser :?: :twisted:

Stop badmouthing them in e-mails, letters, phone calls or message boards/forums. Being hurtful is not the way to get what you want. It is perfectly acceptable to complain, but do it an adult-like fashion and without insulting them. Back your beliefs with facts and not by telling them "you suck" or "you don't care" or "you won't change". If you keep acting like that, you're right, they won't change.

I thought this was a positive discussion; and no one has said they suck, the lack of coverage could indicates they don't care: idea:

Bottom-line: you are right, the coaches have to do there part in a timely manner.

DAWG6,

Ozzie Parker and Patrick Banks had a combined front page feature on them two seasons ago (much like John Hardin's Cassidy Veach and Justin Pitcher did when they were in middle school). Parker and Miller had a separate write up on themselves when they finished second last year, so please don't act like they didn't get any coverage.

I know for a fact (talked to one of the three sports writers) that NO middle coach has turned in any results this year. Only one weekend tournament was called (faxed, e-mailed, etc.) in in the last two weeks. If the coaches are saying that, maybe they have e-mails or faxes or phone bills to prove it. What good would it do for the paper to take the result, not put it in the paper and make the situation worse? Why would the paper withhold the information on page 2?

---

BIGFAN,

Did anybody from LaRue tell the News-Enterprise that the middle school regionals were this weekend? That would have been a big help. Don't let them know FAR AFTER the event has already happened if you want coverage.

As far as the LaRue Herald's wrestling coverage, that's a different breed altogether. Linda Parker's son wrestled, so when she was the editor, did it really surprise you that the wrestling team got tons of coverage? No, but she had a bit of bias since she had a family member wrestle and she was a wrestling booster. Now, LaRue COunty only has three sports to cover with in its weekly paper (boys' basketball, girls' basketball and wrestling), while the News-Enterprise has tons more to deal with (nine local high schools plus UK and U of L), so its not fair to compare the two. Now if Hopkinsville or Owensboro or Frankfort or the Danville papers (all daily papers about the same size as the News Enterprise) had way more wrestling coverage than the News-Enterprise, you might have a complaint. But I doubt they do much more than the News-Enterprise does.

"The crowd at a wrestling match will always be equal to or bigger than a basketball,softball or baseball game." - Maybe at a wrestling TOURNAMENT with 7-plus teams, but not for just a match. There's is no way a wrestling match in this area will outdraw a Central Hardin-E'town or E'town-John Hardin or JOhn Hardin-North Hardin or North Hardin-Etown or North Hardin-Central Hardin basketball game.

"Do not put all the blame on Coaches, Let somebody at News Enterprise do their job." - The News-Enterprise shouldn't have to do its job (writing features, previews and recaps of tournaments, sending out a photographer) until the coaches start doing theirs (once again, turning in results on a timely and consistent basis).

HCWolverines06,

Per Coach Smith, the North Hardin Inv. results were sent in Sunday @12:00.

Per Coach Paden, the Middle School regions were sent in on Monday.

Ozzie Parker and Patrick Banks had a combined front page feature on them two seasons ago (much like John Hardin's Cassidy Veach and Justin Pitcher did when they were in middle school).

These were great articles TWO seasons ago.

But what about this season :idea:

The preseason article was very good, but since then I haven't seen much at all.

grappler-of-old' date='

The results will certainly be printed, if someone does indeed turn them in. As far as a story or photo, probably not.

And I agree with you on your thoughts. Results are a must, but coaches/statkeepers/parents must be willing to turn them in. It's ridiculous when a girls' basketball team can fax stats from California or Meade County (which isn't really in The News-Enterprise's coverage area) can call in stats from Florida, but wrestling coaches forget/refuse to turn in results just once or twice a week. And I agree it must be earned, but wrestling teams won't earn it if they keep badmouthing them or ignoring them. The paper will just ignore them back and give them little coverage, if any at all.

-----

eville dad,

I have a role in the paper ... in a way. I am an immediate family member of someone who has a HUGE role, and I know a few other folks that have major roles, too. So I know how they think. I've been in that office many a time.

With that said, the paper won't do anything about the middle schools NOW if the middle schools have ignored them ALL SEASON LONG. Middle school basketball, junior pro/youth/little league basketball and indoor golf and indoor tennis people turn in results all the time, but I guess it hasn't crossed any of the middle school coaches minds that they should too. So now when you want and think you deserve the most coverage (since this is the highlight of the season), you are not going to get it. Like I said earlier, if you don't cooperate with them, they will never cooperate with you in the future.

In order to get more coverage, you have to prove you are worthy of the coverage you are already getting. It's like a ladder: You want to get to the top, but you have to use the lower rungs to get there first. Some (not all) of the coaches in our area don't want to use the lower rungs when they are easily available, so they'll never get to the top no matter how much they complain, how much they call or how many e-mails or letters they fire off.

Ignoring the paper when they invite you to turn in the results (with no charge, no less) is like a slap in the face. Slap them one too many times and they may never deal with you again.

Some wrestling people feel they deserve more coverage, and I can agree with that. However, the wrestling folks are sitting at the bargaining table with no leverage to use.

Getting match/tournament results in the paper is not difficult at all: All you have to do is be willing to turn them in.[/quote']

HCWolverines06,

I've been watching you babble on about the position of the paper, and I also have a interest with the paper as I am a spouse of someone at the paper. For the last two years Chuck has been blowing smoke up my @#$. about the coverage for wrestling. Quite making excuses for the bad coverage of our sport. because it is of no interest to them, they will not cover it. As for turning in our dual and tournament info. It is always sent in by me. Don't think I don't know what goes on at the NE. Stick to Football.

It's not a resentment' date=' per se. The paper doesn't cover all 17 area varsity basketball teams, but it usually able to get results for all (or most) 17 teams when they play (Because hoops coaches understand that if you want something in the paper, you might want to turn it in). Basketball coaches are volunteers (or do it for little pay) just like wrestling coaches.

But the resentment is there when there are four ways to turn in results (phone call, e-mail, fax or drop off a hard copy of the results) and coaches choose to do NONE of the four. Coaches act like turning in results is not a big deal, but then they turn around and act like the small coverage they are given is a big deal. You can't have it both ways.

This past weekend, four area teams competed to my knowledge. NONE turned in results.

Last weekend, four teams competed. Only one turned them in in a timely fashion.

One out of eight is hardly justifiable for deserving more coverage. Unless they start accepting what's right in front of them, they'll never get more. Bottom line. Plain and simple. No arguing.

The paper takes results up until 11 p.m. on Saturdays and midnight every other day. Not that hard to make.

The News-Enterprise has won awards for its wrestling coverage in the past. A few years back, a pair of brothers wrestled each other in the regional tournament and that story was named the top sports story of the year for any daily paper in Kentucky. Also about 3-4 years ago, a story about North Hardin's female coach was picked up and ran by The Associated Press (part of the story even got a brief mention in the USA Today and New York Times).

The writers will put in the time and effort if it is warranted, but by the coaches choosing to ignore them, they are saying it is definitely not warranted.

There are three ways to improve the situation:

1) Turn in all results from now on (no excuses whatsoever) as soon as possible

2) Apologize or give reasons about why previous results were not reported.

3) Stop badmouthing them in e-mails, letters, phone calls or message boards/forums. Being hurtful is not the way to get what you want. It is perfectly acceptable to complain, but do it an adult-like fashion and without insulting them. Back your beliefs with facts and not by telling them "you suck" or "you don't care" or "you won't change". If you keep acting like that, you're right, they won't change.

Maybe the coaches need to take it upon themselves to change first before the paper does.[/quote']

Don't mean to bust your bubble about the paper getting awards, but those article were written when Jeff was sports editor. That is when all sports had equal coverage, and wrestling had its best year of coverage. So is it the coaches or is it the lack of leadership in the sports department? When the sports department realizes that they are suppose to serve their community and not the community serving them, then we will recieve equal coverage. I think that they forget who their customer is. I never knew that one sport was better than another for coverage. You are definately misreading the public.

I originally started this forum in the hope to get more tournament information to a central web site. Ie. KWCA.

I find it interesting that a battle has ensued with newspaper coverage. We in Nky have pretty much given up on trying to get the Ky boys in the Enquirer or Post. (They seem only to want to post the OH boys).

Don't get me wrong, we get a decent pre-season article, and good coverage for the post season. The regular season however is another story. We rarely even get any box scores.

I'd say the biggest blame would have to go to the coaches in Nky. Many have given up sending in their info, because they often don't get printed.

You Hardin Co. boys seem to fighting over how much coverage you receive. It's interesting that both sides seem to blame the other side. It sounds like two elementary school kids fighting over who will apologize first. I'm not going to do anything until they do something.

Hardin Co. coaches: Get a system with your local paper. Ask them for an e-mail address where you can send in your results and schedules. If everyone is sending their information to the same place then maybe more will get accomplished.

Local Paper: Set up an e-mail where they can send their results at any time. Realize that sometimes results won’t get in until the next day. (Tournaments run past 12:00 AM many times).

Hardin Coaches and Local Paper: Get over whose fault it is. It is obvious that there is enough interest to warrant an article or two throughout the season. With an e-mail set up coaches could send in possible article topics.

Bottom line: stop arguing and get something done. You already seem to have a line of communication set up (even though its negative right now). Turn it into something positive and settle this.

grappler-of-old,

I'm not a coach, just a parent that loves sports.

I check with our wrestling coach all the time to make sure he called in results and he has personally used my phone three times the pass two weeks. I know we turn in the results.

I wish it could be simple, without all the finger pointing.

We have great students, athlete’s and parents that support them. I'd just like to see all the kids that work so hard in all small programs get the respect and alittle bite more coverage.

I know that Football, Basketball and Baseball always get the big coverage, we don't need to play who gets more. We know that won't change. But it would be to easy to promote and cover the other programs.

WHAT HAPPENED? Today's News Enterprise with front page color photos of the Banks/Felli and Wheeler/Simmons match from last nights dual between John Hardin and LaRue County (did you all convince Nat to have a change of heart?...just kidding). The dual was also broadcast live on HCETV and will be replayed a few times over the next couple of weeks. The coverage here is not really that bad and should be even better since Kentucky and Louisville basketball stink this year. Any stories about those two programs this year is a waste of perfectly good ink.

WHAT HAPPENED? Today's News Enterprise with front page color photos of the Banks/Felli and Wheeler/Simmons match from last nights dual between John Hardin and LaRue County (did you all convince Nat to have a change of heart?...just kidding). The dual was also broadcast live on HCETV and will be replayed a few times over the next couple of weeks. The coverage here is not really that bad and should be even better since Kentucky and Louisville basketball stink this year. Any stories about those two programs this year is a waste of perfectly good ink.

Concur,

They even had the results of the middle school regional.

It's a start.

Do you folks use computer programs for your tournaments? Most good programs make submitting results really easy and FAST. We do, and at the end of the tournament, we save 2 files that can be emailed to newspapers, web sites or emailed to participating teams and coaches. If you have an internet connection, you can get the results out before you leave the gym. We use Tournament Plus software. As an example, the results files for our last youth tournament are here:

Final Brackets: www.marshwoodwrestling.com/results/06_pwbrackets.pdf

Final Results: www.marshwoodwrestling.com/results/06_pwresults.pdf

We get pretty good news coverage here in Oldham County by the Oldham Era, with all of our wrestling always covered. It's not a lack of coverage; its a lack of coverage by the major newspapers in the state.