I challenge a school and coach to successfully and competently run an off season tournament in Kentucky. That means kids don't wait for 7 hours in a gym before wrestling their first match and then wrestling 3-5 times in less than 70 minutes, etc, etc, etc, etc!!! Today's tournament was good for Lafayette's concession stand budget, but otherwise a disgrace for Kentucky!

I challenge a school and coach to successfully and competently run an off season tournament in Kentucky. That means kids don't wait for 7 hours in a gym before wrestling their first match and then wrestling 3-5 times in less than 70 minutes, etc, etc, etc, etc!!! Today's tournament was good for Lafayette's concession stand budget, but otherwise a disgrace for Kentucky!

Ha ha.. awesome comment.  Nothing seems to run smooth in this state when it comes to a wrestling tournament.

I think it is a given that when you wrestle in a tourney this big that you are going to have to wait.....that's Kentucky wrestling (atleast in my experience).  I think the younger kids brackets went pretty smoothly.  Congrats to all the winners!!!

No No No! We should not have to wait.

I am curious, do all tennis players show up at 9 am and wait for 7 hours to play their first match.  Of course not!  Tennis has staggered start times.

Today should have been divided into 2 groups; young kids or lighter weights from 9-noon and older or heavier kids from 1-4pm. That way all of us would not have to sit on antiquated wooden bleachers for 8-10 hours to watch our wrestler. Total disrespect to all involved! And yet, the tournament directors, in their convoluted minds, expect us to thank them for them running this tournament. No thanks will come from this ticked off parent.

On a positive note, the concession stand made alot of money.

I have never been one to ask for thanks. I do this job for FREE. In fact, everyone involved is a volunteer except the four referees. This includes myself as the Sports Chair. I apologize that some kids had a wait and others did not. We wrestled oh...372 matches and were finished by 5:45. That is pretty good time for any tournament. Again, I do not want your thanks, gratitude, etc. It kills me how people in KY devote their time, energy, and money out of their pocket to make wrestling better yet get crapped on by its own participants and spectators. That is OK. I will keep working to build wrestling in KY no matter what negativity comes my way.

Chris & staff

I think you guys did an outstanding job today.  The individuals fussing are usually the ones that would be scared to death to take on a task like this.  Thanks for all that you do for the sport and keep up the good work.....can't wait until next year!!!!!

I think the staff at Lafayette did an excellent job. Coach McCoy keep up the good work.

Any results or good matches?

Spare me the sap! 7 hours of waiting is NOT acceptable, period. It is disrespectful. Rather than asking for nose tissue and sympathy from the bleeding heart wrestlingmoms, why don't you answer why you didn't separate wrestlers rather than intentionally making them wait an inordinant amount of time. Answer that first!

I will give thanks when thanks is deserved. Coach, you ran this tournament for one reason only, to get money for your wrestling team. Don't sugar coat it. 

Keeping wrestlers and fans trapped in a gym for 7 hours before wrestling a single match is cruel and inconsiderate. Do you really expect those parents and wrestlers to thank you? Next year separate them by ages or weights. Your concession stand will suffer, but maybe then you will have people say thanks. I have been going to Ohio tournaments for years and never experienced this kind of treatment. Maybe people in Ohio demand and expect more than us Kentucky folks.

The last hour of the tournament was a joke. 

Many matches were forfeited because the wrestlers got tired and went home.

Championship matches were forfeited.

It was a sad bitter finish to what could have been a great tournemant.

If the planners knew they were going to finish all of the younger kids brackets before even starting the older kids, they should have staggered the start times.

For those who remained until the tournament's conclusion, it was not pretty. It was indeed SAD!

Enough whining and crying.  Anyone have any results?

And exactly how many of you complaining actually pre-registered? You expect to have a tournament with 200+ kids of all ages done before 5pm when only 20-30 kids pre-register? You expect brackets to be completed and filled out magically for this many kids when (i'm not sure about this year but in the past you could wrestle more than one weight class)?

And I bet all of you complaining volunteered your own time to help didn't you?

Wow - I feel like some of these comments are so middle school. The concession stand comments are absolutely UNNECESSARY. Do you all even know Coach McCoy & the people at Lafayette? Your opinion is the most skewed I've seen... you have no idea how much work Lafayette wretlers & parents put into their program, fundraising, etc.

If you're going to whine & say something is disrespectful, don't follow it by rude & childish comments. Say something constructive. DO something constructive. Make comments that can help the people running the tournament make it better.

I'm only 23 and I feel a lot older than some of the people making these completely uncalled for remarks. Get used to waiting... that's part of wrestling... and saying all of this negative crap about Kentucky wrestling only hinders the sport even more.

Here's an idea - do something useful.

To the boys that wrestled/won - Good job!!! Can't wait for the season to start and see everyone, I've heard there are a lot of good competitors this year!!!! Enjoy the rest of summer, boys!!!

anyone that has ever been a part of wrestling knows you wait.  I grew up in Ohio and did most of my wrestling there and they have the waits as well.  No matter where you go you will wait.  The amount of volunteer hours that go into this tournament is crazy.  I was one of the referees today and I was willing to volunteer my time.  I did not even know until I got there today I was going to be paid.  These summer tournaments are designed for one reason.....to make Kentucky wrestlers better.  You cannot get better by not wrestling.  I am sorry for those that had to wait.  But like Mathound said...did you preregister?  The more work that can be done 1 week or 2 weeks before makes everything go smoother. 

Congrats to all of the wrestlers that competed and thanks to Coach McCoy for running the tournament.  This man will do anything he can to help grow KY wrestling.  We need more coaches like that out there!!!

If you are fed garbage all your life then you are happy to eat garbage. Yesterdays tournament was garbage and it didn't have to be.

Suggestions

1. Pre-register, give a deadline to register, notice the word DEAD line. No one will be allowed to register beyond the DEAD line. Teachers and coaches, start TEACHING these young students in life there are DEAD lines. Miss the DEAD line, you can't wrestle. Again, teachers and coaches, expect more from your wrestlers and perhaps you will get more. Expect mediocrity and that is what you will receive. 

2. Don't expect grandparents and spectators to sit on a wooden bench for 7 hours before they ever see their child wrestle. It is not fair and will result in them not returning for future matches. That decreases attendance and results in fewer fans, etc. Kentucky wrestling declines.

3. Give staggered times. 2 sessions would have resolved the issue.

Personally, I find it offensive that people like Mathound and Coach McCoy expect accolades for simply running a tournament. Spare me the time and volunteer whining. When you volunteer to run a tournament, which results in several thousand dollars generated for your wrestling team via concessions, you have choices. Run a good tournament or a bad tournament. Yesterday's tournament was bad. Kentucky wrestling was not advanced forward yesterday. Waiting in a gym during July for 7 hours before wrestling your first match was disrespectful.

It remains sad that during all of this bantering the simple solution is 2 sessions, one for youths and one for older wrestlers.  Yet our teachers and coaches can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Year after year this suggestion is made to BGSG yet fans and wrestlers are still subjected to garbage. IF YOU KNOW IT WILL BE 7 HOURS BEFORE  THE OLDER KIDS WILL WRESTLE THEIR FIRST MATCH, DON'T HAVE THEM SHOW UP AT 9 AM, HAVE THEM COME IN AT 2 OR 3 PM. 

Next year, the BGSG will have over 200 wrestlers. Stagger the times and everyone will pat Mathound on the head and tell him what a good job he did. Until then, bad dog for yesterdays tournament. Your face needs to be rubbed in the garbage.

I don't give teachers and coaches free rides for just showing up. Likewise, I don't believe in giving wrestlers free rides for just showing up. If you are going to willingly participate, then give it your best. I fail to accept yesterday's BGSG was Kentucky's best.

The wait times were brutal. The parents of the younger kids probably thought the tournament was great, afterall, it started on time and their brackets were completed in a timely manner. The older kids sat and waited and waited and waited. The end of the tournament was a debacle.

Losers were advanced into the finals and the mistake not uncovered until after the championship match was wrestled. Many wrestlers left and never even wrestled their championship match because they had already wrestled 4 times in just over an hour. At the end of the tournament, kids were standing on the mat waiting for their opponent to show up when in fact they had already left the building. The announcer kept saying over the intercom "the tournament is not over people". The end was a fizzle at best.

During the day one wrestler won a match 8-6, his hand was raised, the wrestler signed the bracket and went into the stands. Both wrestlers left the mat.  5 minutes later both wrestlers were called back to the mat over the intercom. They were told the match was tied. This broke all rules. Now the wrestler who won got to face an opponent mad and determined to win in overtime. The initial winner now lost in overtime. After winning a match there is a psychological deflation. Wrestlers need to prepare for a match both physically and mentally. When both wrestlers left the mat, the bout sheet signed and turned in, the match was over. To pull the winner out of the stands 5 minutes later,  was wrong.

Overall, yesterday was a poor display of what should otherwise be Kentucky's finest. 

    I was not there but I have run numerous tourneys, granted they were mostly high school events.

    Usually events run long because of poor planning.  Sometimes events cause tourneys to run long (power outages, computer malfunctions, late teams, Injuries ect. ect.)

    Here are the two reasons Ky (yes I say Ky) wrestling events take so long.  

    1.  Score or bracket keeper.  Many times these people are not proficient in bracket logy or score keeping.  They depend on the computer to do all the work.  Or they are not familiar with the computer program.  (I still claim that I can run a tournament by hand faster than the computer).  Even if all the contestants are last minute the names and brackets can be put into the computer and printed out in 30-60 minutes.  Color code weight sheets for age groups and separate the weights while they are being sent in.  This way when you are ready to put them into the computer they are already sorted out.  Have a backup manual (paper) bracket (mandatory).  This way if the computer malfunctions the paper copy will still be correct and the tournament can continue.  This requires either 2 extremely qualified scorekeepers or 4 moderately qualified scorekeepers.  A runner for every 2 mats and a system of getting the boutsheets to the mats.  

    2.  Poor planning.  You should anticipate the same number of kids or 10% more than last year.  If you do this then you can plan the sessions.  If the sessions go faster than anticipated that is usually a good thing and this will give you a chance to give your volunteers a QUICK break.   This allows you to pace yourself.  If you are falling behind you know that you must do something to get back on time.  You can call these goals if you want but try to stick with the goals.  I would also recommend a system of one match wrestling on the mat and two other bout sheets already waiting at the table.  To do this you must also have one competent person at each table to coordinate this.  

    Once again I was not there (but I plan on being there next year with my son), and some of these may have been done.  I know personally if the tournament does not meet my high expectations I am embarrassed.

    When I ran the regional tournament a few years ago I ran it with a team of 4 wrestlers in which only one set of parents helped out.  The person who ran the computer could do the tournament with a blindfold.  I assisted him and found an old assistant coach (because I had no assistant that year) who coached my kids when they were on the mat.  I found 4 competent parents/ex-wrestlers to run each table.  My plan was to have the tournament over at latest 6 (if not 4-5) and home by 8.  We finished an hour late and I didn't get home until 10.  I was mad because I did not reach my goal.  Some of the time problems were unforeseen but we started 10-15 minutes late, we had to hand write the 1st round of bout sheets because of a printer malfunction) (I should have printed them earlier) and I was not very organized on the distribution of awards.  

    This is my constructive criticism and my observation after over 20 years in Ky wrestling.  I know running a summer event is more of a headache than anyone wants.  I commend you on tacking on this task, but it sounds like some improvement is needed.  

   Please continue to run tournaments much like wrestling you only get better if you continue to host events and try to improve yourself.  Chalk this one as a bad outing and come back next time and win everyone

For 3/4 nelson and pinned em all....I am sure coach mccoy would be more than happy to accept your help for  next years tournament and see if you have any positive input to make it run smoother and easier.  He can be contacted directly by you and you can volunteer your time as he and thousands of others have to make tournaments go.  This has to be the hardest tournament in the state to run due to the type it is.  A high school tournament you basically know 99% of the kids that are going to be there and their weight etc.  This tournament is usually a guess until after everyone registers and weighs in....you just don't know.  Kids (and adults, forgot that) can wrestle in two age and weight classes and so that makes it hard to do as well.  Staggering the times for them would make it difficult for them as well because they would have to be there for both and wouldn't leave...there isn't a great solution to this unless you get 100 more participants for it and only let them wrestle in one age and weight group and require everyone to be preregistered or don't wrestle...but that won't happen.  Did both of your kids pre-register prior to the event, if you did good, if not why?  You just added to the hassle of taking care of it.  I think Mccoy does a great job for an off season event and devotes alot of time to it.  As far as the concession stand comments go that's just being a baby.  That's the only way to get money and everyone knows it so quite crying.  Unless you want to come and be a referee and do it for free with 3 of your buddies so the entrant fee doesn't go towards paying them and then the concessions can be dropped down.  Or maybe you can run the tournament and we can hold it at your school and see how well you do..that would be the ultimate option and see how you cope with it.  My thoughts would be you couldn't handle it...I would bet on that. 

The first part of teaching has to come from the home and honestly now a days that isn't happening and so it's falling like you say on the coaches and teachers to do that...when it isn't up to them.  If the dead line was made and there were 30 wrestlers there you would hear so many negative comments on how the tournament was low and no participants and others saying how it was unfair they weren't allowed to register the day of the tournament, etc.  I am sure you would be on here whining about something then too. 

Parents and grandparents sit on bleachers to see kids because they love them and want to support them (for those few that do) and good for them I applaud them too and if that is the worst thing you have to do to support your kids you have a great time and very little to ask. 

Mccoy and mathound don't ask for applaud or expect applaud, they just want kids to come out and wrestle and the parents to support them as well.  I wasn't at this years but for the past 10 or so I have seen I would be willing to bet that more than half of the high school aged kids didn't have any parents in the stands to watch them, which is higher than at high school events as I would say that is more like 75% of parents don't come.  They don't expect praise and don't really care about your bashing them either but they continue to support wrestling year after year and i am sure they will well after you are (thankfully)gone as well as hundreds of others..

1. Pre-register, give a deadline to register, notice the word DEAD line. No one will be allowed to register beyond the DEAD line. Teachers and coaches, start TEACHING these young students in life there are DEAD lines. Miss the DEAD line, you can't wrestle. Again, teachers and coaches, expect more from your wrestlers and perhaps you will get more. Expect mediocrity and that is what you will receive. 

2. Don't expect grandparents and spectators to sit on a wooden bench for 7 hours before they ever see their child wrestle. It is not fair and will result in them not returning for future matches. That decreases attendance and results in fewer fans, etc. Kentucky wrestling declines.

Kalen, and any others who are offended by 3/4 nelson & I-pinned-em-all's comments.  They are right, you are wrong.  You can not expect people to be happy with a 6-7 hour wait time.  To say that "that's Kentucky wrestling" is a cop out.  Yes, it happens a lot here, yes, it happens else where too, but the only way it will get better is for people to speak up.  You and others may not like their tone, but I hope it encourages Coach McCoy and those involved to try to address this issue.  And to wrestlingmom who says you should expect that, sadly you are right.  We do expect it, but not because we should, just because that's the way they all are in this state.  Go to the Ohio Tournament of Champions, a 1 day tournament with 3000+ wrestlers.  It is completely organized, you know when you will be up (bout numbers), I don't have to watch all the older kids wrestle to get to see my young kids wrestle....why?  staggered start times.  It's not a coincidence that tournament is almost flawless every year, it's planning and organization.  There are many others in Ohio I've been to that are just as organized.  There is a trade off for that, it obviously takes more time to plan for the orgnanizers...but the result will be much more happy fans and participants.  That is good for the sport.  Think about the parents who are new to this sport, who aren't die-hards.  Sitting in a gym for 7 hours to watch a first match?  Compare that to baseball, football, soccer, or just about any other sport, and simply put...we are doing something wrong in this sport.  

We CAN do much better than yesterday's tournament in this state.  What we shouldn't be doing here is squashing the people who have the ***** to step up and call people out on this.  They want to see the sport do well just like all the rest of us do (Coach McCoy & Mathound included)  Coach McCoy, don't get defensive about it.  If you don't like the people complaining, then address the issues.  Make a plan to do better next year.  If you need help, find it.

CoachK, with all due respect...do you think waiting 7 hours for a kid's first match is acceptable?  This is simply a yes or no question, no one needs a big lecture on parenting or the love of grandparents.  The point is, and maybe 3/4 nelson & IPEA are coming across as angry, but they are right that this is not acceptable.  The majority of people get on here and bash on anyone complaining as "whinners", that's BS.  They are patriots, and love this sport.  They have legitimate complaints!!!  It can be done better, and the only reason the BGSG crew is getting bashed on is because they fail to even make an effort to make it better - year after year.  I'm not a betting man, but I would place a wager that next year's tournament will be just like this year (and all the other years) - LONG WAITS.  Everyone involved in this sport needs to listen to the people, and correct this.  Dont be defensive, just learn from past mistakes and make it better next year.

CoachK, you are not making sense.

You state if 2 sessions were held then SOME kids would have to sit through both sessions in order to wrestle different weights and ages.

Well, as it is now, EVERYONE has to sit and wait through what is effectively 2 sessions. If a wrestler CHOOSES to wrestle in both sessions, than that is his choice. But, to make everyone sit through both sessions is wrong.

You state that more than half, more like 75%, of the kids don't have parents in the stands. Perhaps parents are tired of sitting in bleachers for hours and NOT seeing their child wrestle. Perhaps they are tired of the bedlam. If I represent any component of the 25% of parents in the stands, then hear what I am saying. Interestingly, in Ohio, where tournaments are usually fast and smooth, the stands are full of spectators.

Coach McCoy posted the wrestling attendance at the BGSG for the last several years prior to this years event. Remember, it was a challenge to set attendance records. Therefore, based on the last several years, it was anticipated the wrestler attendance would exceed > 200. There were no surprises CoachK, just poor planning or absolute refusal to do things differently than the past.

My comment regarding the concession stand is accurate. I realize the economic impact of running a sport. I was a high school wrestling coach for 3 years. Yesterday's tournament forced wrestlers and fans to remain in the gym waiting for their name to be called. There was little organization and the calling of brackets and names was a potpouri. This prevented fans/wrestlers from leaving to eat and forced purchases through the concession stand. I always patronize every concession stand and support high school programs. I simply don't appreciate being forced to sit through 2 sessions when there was never any intention to have the older, heavier kids wrestle until mid- afternoon.

I didn't like sitting around all day waiting to see a defending state champion wrestle a state runner-up, only to have the champ forfeit the final match due to all matches being crammed into a brief time frame.

I too, didn't like seeing wrestlers who lost in the semi's advanced to the finals and having the error discovered after the championship match was finished. Especially, when it was my child who was supposed to be in the finals.

Kentucky wrestling goes through generational phases. By the time parents of younger wrestlers have been around long enough to realize these tournaments are poorly run, their child graduates. The next batch of parents don't realize until years later things can be done better. I am now the parent of an older child and will not commend this kind of poor planning. In fact, I find it offensive.

CoachK, I personally expect more out of Kentucky wrestling. I expect improvements each year, even if minor improvements.  I expect the people who run the tournament to carefully read these comments and understand the reason for the negative feedback.  Respect is a two way street. I guarentee no successful business, school, wrestling tournament, or classroom allows their patrons to sit idle for 7 hours. 

I will ask again, knowing there will be over 200 wrestlers next year, will there be two sessions or one smashed together session? 

Wow.  First of all I want to thank Coach McCoy for all of his hard work and effort.  While I have never put on a wrestling tournament of any kind myself my dad did run the WCI for a number of years so I am familiar with some of the struggles of running one.  That being said the BGSGs has to be much more difficult because, as previously stated, you have no idea of how many, what age groups, weight classes, etc. until that morning.

I will agree that yesterday's tournament, when compared to states and others, was poorly run.  However, that does not give anyone the right to come on here and ostracize the tournament directors.  If you want to criticize then give suggestions (see bulldog-leader's post) on how to make it better instead of blindly rambling on and on about the concessions, wait times, and everything else.  For those of you who are comparing us to Ohio I say go on and move there, we don't want you here.  Those of us who are doing everything we can to help the sport grow do not appreciate your comparing KY, which I will admit is not the best wrestling state, to arguably the best state in the country.  I have been to the Ohio TOC and I can tell you that those directors are paid for running that tournament.  Coach McCoy, in addition to his personal life, and his career is doing this and not asking for anything in return.  Did they make money off concessions?  Of course they did.  But they probably had to rent the gym, pay the janitors to clean up after you, pay the officials (who did a pretty good job) and a whole host of other hidden costs.

I, like Coach McCoy am trying to help the sport grow in Kentucky.  But honestly, if it really bothers you that much how the tournament was run then don't come back next year because we don't need your negativity.  That's the beauty of it, all you lost was a Saturday and 25 bucks so loosen up a little.

I do not disagree with constructive criticism, and knowing Coach McCoy well, I know he is taking legitimate comments to heart.

The problem is - when you come here & you make disrespectful remarks & extremely rude assumptions - your concerns start lacking validity. For example - which one seems more constructive/likely to be listened to:

------

Coach McCoy - next year could we think about doing the tournament differently? The wait times were awful, many wrestlers had to forfeit, and I feel like a KY Wrestling tournament could go a lot smoother. I'd be willing to volunteer my time & experience to make this tournament a better one. I'm disappointed and I hope we can work on this.

------

VS

Coach McCoy - you & Mathound deserve no respect or acknowledgment, all you want is concession money, you never listen to us, and your tournament was horrible.  My expectations are WAY higher than this. You deserve no rewards and I know that's what you want! Now fix it!

------

Oh and how could I forget this quote:

Your face needs to be rubbed in the garbage.

For the person who said that, I really pray you are not an adult. That is the saddest, most disrespectful comment I've ever seen and I am ashamed of you. Your input is disqualified after you say harsh & cocky statements like that. Learn to have some tact, please.

For people complaining with respect - I encourage you to call / email Coach McCoy. He is very easy to work with (if you haven't worked with him). He loves this sport & I know that if given constructively, your criticism will not be ignored.

That being said the BGSGs has to be much more difficult because, as previously stated, you have no idea of how many, what age groups, weight classes, etc. until that morning.

Why?  Weren't all remote weigh ins completed and turned in by the night before? 

I will agree that yesterday's tournament, when compared to states and others, was poorly run.  However, that does not give anyone the right to come on here and ostracize the tournament directors.  If you want to criticize then give suggestions (see bulldog-leader's post) on how to make it better instead of blindly rambling on and on about the concessions, wait times, and everything else.  For those of you who are comparing us to Ohio I say go on and move there, we don't want you here.  Those of us who are doing everything we can to help the sport grow do not appreciate your comparing KY, which I will admit is not the best wrestling state, to arguably the best state in the country.  I have been to the Ohio TOC and I can tell you that those directors are paid for running that tournament.  Coach McCoy, in addition to his personal life, and his career is doing this and not asking for anything in return.  Did they make money off concessions?  Of course they did.  But they probably had to rent the gym, pay the janitors to clean up after you, pay the officials (who did a pretty good job) and a whole host of other hidden costs.

I can't speak for everyone complaining, but I don't expect Kentucky to be as good as Ohio.  But if a tournament can be ran in that state in sessions, where an individual kid competing in 1 bracket can be in and out of that gym in 2-4 hours, it can be done in this state as well.  Don't sell our people short and act like it can't be done here, it can, and that's what we should be shooting for.  That's all I'm saying, 7 hours in a gym, before a first match is straight up ridiculous.  No if's, and's but's about it.  Ok, it happened, that's a shame....can't do anything about the past, but learn from mistakes and fix it next year.  If it can't be improved, then at least communicate up front "Hey, at this tournament some kids may have to wait for 7 hours for their first match.  Just be patient, it happens, afterall this is Kentucky, not Ohio".  :evil:  Can you imagine if a parent going to a baseball game had to wait 7 hours before their kid took the field?  It's not acceptable in that sport, and we should accept it in this sport. 

I, like Coach McCoy am trying to help the sport grow in Kentucky.  But honestly, if it really bothers you that much how the tournament was run then don't come back next year because we don't need your negativity.  That's the beauty of it, all you lost was a Saturday and 25 bucks so loosen up a little.

If that's the only option people have to sitting in the stands for 7 hours before a first match, then that's what a lot of the older kids will do.  I didn't have to do this for my little one, but I had a friend with an older kid there, so we stayed to watch him.  I couldn't believe how long he had to wait without a match. 

I, like Coach McCoy am trying to help the sport grow in Kentucky.

By the way, we all are.  It will help the sport grow if we can figure out how to get kids and their family in and out of a gym in a reasonable amount of time.  Most people involved in this sport are some of the most helpful people you will ever meet.  Maybe ask some people who have ran some of the more well ran tournaments how they do things so smoothly.  Sessions would be a big plus for this tournament in the future.  And I think that's about all i have to say on the matter.  Good luck next year.

So, no results.  Just bi***ing and moaning.

I am not 23 years old like Kalen. I am 41 and frankly tired of people asking for accolades after giving us garbage. Kalen, feel embarrassed for me if you like, go to church and pray for me. Frankly, I don't need your soul cleansing. What I need is people to allow theirs minds to grow. Last years BGSG was the same, the year before was the same. Maybe when you are 41 you may be tired of being fed garbage by people trying to make you believe you are eating filet mignon.

This is my offer Coach McCoy, your service is appreciated by some, but bottom line, not up to par. Next year, I will run the entire tournament at Campbell County High School. I personally guarentee no wrestler will be in the gymnasium for > 3 hours, that includes handing out medals. There will be 2, possibly 3 sessions, depending on the number of attendees. I will personally refund each wrestler the $25 tournament fee if they are there beyond 3 hours. I will organize the officials, the wrestling insurance, attend all BGSG meetings and meet all requirements mandated by the state. My service will be FREE as will my volunteers. I will do this to advance the quality of wrestling in Ky. I will raise the bar to a level which will provide an atmosphere where 400-500 kids will want to wrestle in future BGSG tournaments. I will not ask people to thank me for my time.

pay the officials (who did a pretty good job)

srry but the officials were terrible i know that it didn't really matter and it wasnt the state tournament or anything..but very very incosistant

o and about hosting it at CC thats far i say just run it at the same place except if you wanna run it you run and make all the money and pay for the expenses but i like your idea

How about some results...who beat who..who won what

I-pinned-em-all,

Instead of trying to take things over, why not a helping hand?  I too have hosted a tourney in the summer and registration is nuts.  You can either cut things early and not have that many wrestlers or do as much as possible to get more wrestlers.  If wrestling is to grow we have to promote participation not create division among Kentucky wrestling.

How about some results...who beat who..who won what

I watched Matt Green pin Nathan Gray in the 2nd period.

Wow it sounds like I-pinned-em-all has been scarred by poorly run tournaments in the past.  Let's hope he can work through his unresolved issues.  I don't know any shrinks in Campbell County but do know a couple in Lexington.  Let me know if you want a name.  I surely hope you didn't treat your wrestlers this way when they were doing the best they could (in this case with their very limited resources).  Maybe that's why you only lasted three years as a coach.

I do however agree that some changes can be made to run the tournament more smoothly.  While I have no experience I will offer my help to Coach McCoy in future years.  Maybe if we could get rid of some of the negative posts on this thread we can actually discuss some ideas in a civil manner and therefore make progress.  I agree with Kalen completely about how to suggest ideas.  I do like some of the ideas that have been proposed.  In my opinion the tournament should stay in Lexington though.

srry but the officials were terrible i know that it didn't really matter and it wasnt the state tournament or anything..but very very incosistant

I realize the officials were not the best but you have to remember that only one, maybe two, are licensed officials.  In a perfect world they should be licensed but this is an example of the limited resources I mentioned above.  This is the summer and many refs probably are vacationing or working another job in which case McCoy (or whoever chooses) is forced to use a high school coach and two college students.  Officiating in the regular season isn't much better anyway.

I would like to again state that you never have or will hear coach mccoy mathound, or anyone else involved in the running of the BGSG ask or expect thanks or accolades for the running of this event.  Those involved do it for the kids.  For the long wait times I know everyone involved is sorry.  I do agree with Kalen...lets talk about real solutions rather than coming in here and making comments that dont need to be made.  As for the people that feel the waiting was disrespectful thats a stretch was it an inconvience sure but they were not doing it to disresepct any parent coach wrestler etc in this state. 

I agree with Kalen, Coach McCoy is one of the easiest people to work with and is very receptive to SUGGESTIONS not insults.  We do need to promote participation as stated above if you dont let people in because they didnt register soon enough that will keep numbers down. 

I think we need to stop the criticism and take it as a lesson learned. 

Perhaps I do need a shrink. I need someone to shrink my expectations from our paid coaches. I need to accept mediocrity. I need to accept coaches with many years of experience have never in their entire career seen or been part of a well run tournament. I need to accept 7 hour waits before even wrestling one match. I need to accept no posted results from tournaments. I need to accept the championship match will not always have the wrestlers who won their side of the bracket. I need to accept many wrestlers will never complete a tournament and simply leave out of disgust for the tournament. I need to accept year after year whining coaches crying stating the best they can do is subsist in the world of wrestling. I need to accept next year the same thing will happen just like the several years in the past. I need to accept many Ky fans feel 7 hours of wait is fun and part of the sport. I need to accept so many people who never want to demand improvements of their colleagues. I need to accept average people are willing to come on this site and be perfectly happy with average results, from average people in an average state. I need to realize my desire to improve and exceed expectations is just a mental flaw I possess and others simply don't have the drive within them to prevail. I need to accept we will never have 2 sessions for wrestling at the BGSG because it may actually make things easier and bring out larger crowds. 

Perhaps I do need a shrink. I need someone to shrink my expectations from our paid coaches.

By the way that was a pretty lousy response.  Like I said before if it bothers you that bad then simply don't come back next year.  The majority of the state will not miss you I'm sure.

I would like to address a few things:

I have said it before and I will say it again...I do not want or need your gratitude or thanks. I do not do the tournament for that reason. Nor do I do it for the concession stand money. I was asked to take this over 6 years ago and was warned about the negativity that comes with it every year. Yet I still do it and have never asked for anything in return and will never expect anything.

Mathound was not a tournament director so leave him out of the negativity when discussing this "disgrace".

I apologize that there was a wait. I seperated the 4 mats into two age groups each to try to avoid this. It did not work so I will go back to the drawing board.

I also apologize that you feel disrespected. To those that know me well, I would never disrepect the wrestling community. Including those who continue to bash me on this site.

The garbage comment is out of line and very unnecessary.

Finally, if you would like to make comments or suggestions about the tournament please contact me:

Phone: 859-509-6379

Email: [email protected]

Yes we should compare ourselves to Ohio as someone mentioned they may be the best in the country.  Shouldn't we always strive to be the best?  Does not every wrestling team compare themselves to the Woodford Co. dynasty?, or the dynasty in your region?  You all strive to be as good as they are. It just so happens that we are close to one of the best wrestling states in the nation.  We can learn from them.

One of the reasons I never had many wrestlers at Holmes was because many of the wrestlers complained about the long Saturdays.  Leaving at 6 am and returning home at midnight.  I tried to move as many of my weekends to Ohio because they were able to complete a tournament by 6:00 pm. and that was with a 1 hour break for dinner before the finals.  I am hoping that they continue next year and can keep more kids wrestling.

At least IPEA brought the subject to the forefront.  It has people talking about it, and hopefully more will be willing to help out next year to make it an even better event.

As for bringing it up here to Nky.  I would love that because then I wouldn't have to travel to Lex. for my son to participate next year, and it would only take me about 10 minutes to get there.

BUT (and that's a big but)

I'm certain that we would loose many more competitors/wrestlers if we did this.  This is not our goal.  Forcing a pre-registration deadline would also lower participation.  Even though I understand your thoughts behind deadlines and the real world IEPA.  I think it is still possible to organize it without the deadline. 

IPEA.  I'm sure you haven't talked to the actual people who would run the tourney at Campbell Co. And I'm certain they would appreciate the burden and expectation that you would put on their backs.

I don't think that there is a shrink in Ky that could help IPEA at this point. 

Maybe we need to get in touch with the Dali llama or something?  :-D

Oh no maybe not.  We don't want to corrupt the Dali llama with IPEA.  :-D :-o

Mathound didn't care that he unfairly got thrown in the mix, Coach McCoy... if you go down, he goes down with you.  :-p

RE: IPEA's last post...

1) With the kind of immature, sad comments you've interlaced with all of your posts, I would not admit that I was over the age of 11 if I were you.

2) As for me praying for you - no thanks, I have a few people ahead of you on my list.

3) Oh.. and the Academy Award for Most Dramatic Post Ever goes to...

PS) I'd still like to see some results, too since we didn't get to make it this year... were there a lot of older wrestlers (ones that graduated already) at the tourney or no?

anyone who has been to a wrestling tounement knows that they will have to wait. Nobody that wrestled there was forced to stay, they could leave if they didn't want to wait

Mathound didn't care that he unfairly got thrown in the mix, Coach McCoy... if you go down, he goes down with you.  :-p

RE: IPEA's last post...

1) With the kind of immature, sad comments you've interlaced with all of your posts, I would not admit that I was over the age of 11 if I were you.

2) As for me praying for you - no thanks, I have a few people ahead of you on my list.

3) Oh.. and the Academy Award for Most Dramatic Post Ever goes to...

PS) I'd still like to see some results, too since we didn't get to make it this year... were there a lot of older wrestlers (ones that graduated already) at the tourney or no?

Listen honey, we didn't ask for the cheerleaders opinion, especially when you didn't even go to the tournament. Obviously you didn't waste you Saturday in a gym watching wrestling.  Aren't there pom poms to fluff somewhere? Who are you the "keeper of peace and morality?"

I think I can speak on behalf of many viewers of this site by saying the comments are getting out of control by the negativity.  Of course there are going to be those people (I pinned-em-all

I think I can speak on behalf of many viewers of this site by saying the comments are getting out of control by the negativity.  Of course there are going to be those people (I pinned-em-all

I think I can speak on behalf of many viewers of this site by saying the comments are getting out of control by the negativity.  Of course there are going to be those people (I pinned-em-all

I think the point is wrstle84 is that the kids did not have fun, this was proven by the many wrestlers that left before they were eliminated.  I believe one post even said a state champ left because it took so long.  I personally have left tournaments that have taken to long.

Waiting is never ever a good thing in a wrestling tournament.  The waiting game is the number one detractor for would be wrestlers and spectators.  As for waiting for 3 hours at the WCI.  This is why I never took my team to this tourney.  I could get as good if not better competition across the river without the wait time. 

I think most of us in the wrestling community understand this, and no one is OK with wait time.  If it can be improved please do so. 

I will be making the transition from a coach 20+ years to a parent of a wrestler.  Believe me, if a tournament starts to get out of hand and running much to long.  The administrator at the tournament will get an earful from me.  As is what I expected when I ran a tournament and delays occurred or it ran waaaaayyyy off schedule.

Sometimes you do the best you can and it is still not good enough.  Just ask the hundreds of non-state champions last year, or the hundred or so who did not make it to the state tournament.  Even though they may have done the best they could, they are probably not patting themselves on the back and saying I'm going to do the same thing next year.  When you don't meet expectations you pull up the boot straps and tighten the belt and get your hands dirty improving for next year.

Sure hope I put the commas in the correct spots.  English was not my strongest subject.  :-D

Thank goodness spell check can correct my atrocious spelling. (I hope that word gets me out of the intellectual midget category and into the mental midget category) :evil:

If you are fed garbage all your life then you are happy to eat garbage. Yesterdays tournament was garbage and it didn't have to be.

Suggestions

1. Pre-register, give a deadline to register, notice the word DEAD line. No one will be allowed to register beyond the DEAD line. Teachers and coaches, start TEACHING these young students in life there are DEAD lines. Miss the DEAD line, you can't wrestle. Again, teachers and coaches, expect more from your wrestlers and perhaps you will get more. Expect mediocrity and that is what you will receive. 

2. Don't expect grandparents and spectators to sit on a wooden bench for 7 hours before they ever see their child wrestle. It is not fair and will result in them not returning for future matches. That decreases attendance and results in fewer fans, etc. Kentucky wrestling declines.

3. Give staggered times. 2 sessions would have resolved the issue.

Personally, I find it offensive that people like Mathound and Coach McCoy expect accolades for simply running a tournament. Spare me the time and volunteer whining. When you volunteer to run a tournament, which results in several thousand dollars generated for your wrestling team via concessions, you have choices. Run a good tournament or a bad tournament. Yesterday's tournament was bad. Kentucky wrestling was not advanced forward yesterday. Waiting in a gym during July for 7 hours before wrestling your first match was disrespectful.

It remains sad that during all of this bantering the simple solution is 2 sessions, one for youths and one for older wrestlers.  Yet our teachers and coaches can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Year after year this suggestion is made to BGSG yet fans and wrestlers are still subjected to garbage. IF YOU KNOW IT WILL BE 7 HOURS BEFORE  THE OLDER KIDS WILL WRESTLE THEIR FIRST MATCH, DON'T HAVE THEM SHOW UP AT 9 AM, HAVE THEM COME IN AT 2 OR 3 PM. 

Next year, the BGSG will have over 200 wrestlers. Stagger the times and everyone will pat Mathound on the head and tell him what a good job he did. Until then, bad dog for yesterdays tournament. Your face needs to be rubbed in the garbage.

I don't give teachers and coaches free rides for just showing up. Likewise, I don't believe in giving wrestlers free rides for just showing up. If you are going to willingly participate, then give it your best. I fail to accept yesterday's BGSG was Kentucky's best.

Why do you not talk about our state tournament like this. If you are a heavyweight in our state, you weight in at what 8am and then you dont wrestle till around 2 or so. If you do not pre-register for these tournaments you can never expect them to start on time.

Awwww, 3/4nelson - do you have a negative stigma of cheerleaders cause they always turned you down in school ??? Maybe you can see the same shrink as IPEA & you'll both get over your little man syndrome & learn how to speak to women with some intelligent remarks.

That being said - I'm a little old to be a cheerleader. And I love spending my Saturdays watching wrestling - I love this sport. I don't mind waiting... I just paint my toenails pink, curl my hair, and read a Cosmo while I wait... you know, being a cheerleader & all... sadly my cousin got married this particular Saturday & it was slightly more important....

And with that being said, I'm out - this thread is ridiculous... I hope everyone does find the valid points here & there throughout and learns from their mistakes, though. (Applause to those honest enough to leave constructive criticism - let's hope your concerns get acknowledged & fixed).

I compliment anyone who has ever taken the time to run a tournament. I know the effort and stress thats involved and while its a thankless position everyone in the state needs you and your efforts or none of us would be able to enjoy the sport. So thanks to all the tournament directors around the state.

I know most people running tournaments are trying to come up with ideas on how to improve their event.

Here are a few ideas from different tournaments that we tried to use in the past, some worked well and some didnt. Hope it spurs some ideas and helps someone down the line:

*Pre register when ever possible

*Weigh-In day or night prior to event.

*Keep weight classes on the same mats all day, dont hesitate to move bouts to other mats as needed.

*Include bout numbers on brackets and display current bouts for each mat, various ways to do this but can be very helpful to the fans, coaches and wrestlers to be able to know how long before their next bout.

*Maintain paper brackets at every table to backup the computer.

*Publish a schedule for the tournament, rounds  planned - breaks planned- finals planned, you may have to adjust during the day (announce changes to the fans), but at least it gives a game plan.

Some of these ideas are from the Tourn. of Champions, someone mentioned it earlier and I agree it is well organized event by professionals, lots of paid workers making it flow smoothly. Its hard to compare tournaments run by volunteers to TofC but they still have some ideas that can be applied in some situation.

Another group that does a good job is Indiana's USAW. Most tournaments are ran well, the USAW has a bracketing system that seems to enable them to run 100's of kids thru in a reasonable amont of time.

I suggest a suggestion box on the site for how to improve aspects of the sport. A place where people could post ideas on how to help others run tournaments, run clubs, fundraise, coach, ect.... Might be a good way to share ideas that could help someone else.

Nice post e-ville.I hope some of you parents and coaches don't take your wrestlers out of state and tell them since they are from Kentucky their not as good as other kids.The tournament was way to slow for the older wrestlers(I missed alot of my sons older teamates because my back hurt from the bleachers) but learn and improve.There is no reason we can't run tournaments as good as Ohio.Also,if some of you don't think the wait hurts wrestling then you have not been around very long.Its just bad when you have an 85 year old mother(and 7 sisters and 2 brothers)that can't sit all day not knowing about what time her grandson will wrestle.I could fill a gym with my family,but I would not ask them to sit that amount of time.We need all the fan support this sport can get so Live and Learn.

Waiting is never ever a good thing

and quitting is?

Why do you not talk about our state tournament like this. If you are a heavyweight in our state, you weight in at what 8am and then you dont wrestle till around 2 or so. If you do not pre-register for these tournaments you can never expect them to start on time.

I am not sure how this example applies to the BGSB. Although the heavy weights weigh-in in the morning, they know they will not wrestle until the afterfoon. Likewise, everyone knows when they will wrestle in the state tournament. They go by bouts and a schedulle is posted well in advance.

The BGSG did not have bouts, they were not told when they would wrestle, they had no idea when they would wrestle. All fans and wrestlers had to wait in the gym for a 5 possibly 10 minute warning. After 6-7 hours of waiting it became painful for all.

Let me give you a different perspective. I am not some angry bitter person who enjoys beating up on others. However, I do get tired of what I perceive to be failures of action. Running a wrestling tournament is not rocket science. No doubt, work and preparation is involved, but come on, people in Ohio do it everyday. I have been taking my son to Sunday tournaments in Ohio ever since he was 5. Amazingly, they will have 300-500 kids in one school and be finished with an entire tournament by noon. It happens every weekend. I fail to believe the same kind of tournament can't be accomplished in Ky.

Which of the following excuses would you like me to accept?

1. We are not smart enough in Ky to run a smooth tournament

2. We are too proud to ask for help in Ky on how to run a smooth tournament.

3. In Ky, we don't mind if the BGSG championship match is wrestled.

4. Wait times are fun in Ky, it helps get us out of our hollows and into society.

5. Our coaches simply don't know how to run a tournament, give them a break

6. Our IQ is not high enough to figure out a bout system.

7. We don't have computers and phones throughout the state therefore we can not expect anyone to pre-register.

8. If you don't like Ky wrestling, just move away, you are too good for us simple folks.

9. Year after year we like complaining about the same thing.

10. For those who compare us to Ohio we just want you to move, we like things simple and slow.

11. Why won't any of the elite Ohio teams come visit their Kentucky neighbors and wrestle in our state.

12. I don't know why people want our state to progress. I enjoy antiquity.

13. No matter what you pay for, you should always thank the person for the product you just purchased.

14. Complaining is useless in Ky, we don't care, we will do it the same way next year.

15. If you complain, we will make personal attacks on you, lose site of the real issue, and defend our people to the bitter end. Remember, we are all confederates at heart.

16. What were the results of the BGSG, who cares, let's just fight. Results don't matter anyway.

17. Why do many of the elite Ky wrestling teams always wrestle out of state.

18. Never ask anyone to improve, all Kentuckians function at 100% all of the time. We can never improve.

Which one of the above do you want me to accept?

#7 IPEA. 

It may seem silly but it is probably true, especially the computer part.  You would not believe how many students I have that do not have computers.  At least half. 

You can then put the pressure on the coaches, but with the amount of coaching changes that occur in KY the have not

3. In Ky, we don't mind if the BGSG championship match is wrestled.

Aren't you the one that criticized someone else for their grammar and english skills?  Because of your earlier posts I was able to figure out what you were talking about here.  A piece of advice though, until you can learn to type without any mistakes at all lay off other people, especially a high school student.  You did say you were what, 41 years old?  Thank god my parents had the sense to raise me to be more mature than you are even though I am almost twenty years younger.  :wink:  Have a nice day!

Aren't you the one that criticized someone else for their grammar and english skills?  Because of your earlier posts I was able to figure out what you were talking about here.  A piece of advice though, until you can learn to type without any mistakes at all lay off other people, especially a high school student.  You did say you were what, 41 years old?  Thank god my parents had the sense to raise me to be more mature than you are even though I am almost twenty years younger.  :wink:  Have a nice day!

I was raised by a pack of wolves. Does that help explain by temperment?

Fairfield H.S. in Ohio has always ran what I consider one of the best youth tournaments in the area.  They do no pre-registration, you register, pay, and weigh in the day of the tournament.  I think this is way better than pre-registrations because you don't have a kid sitting around all day to find out that a kid that pre-registered didn't bother to show up, and you get a forfeit in your 2 man bracket.

They have a system down, and if anyone is interested in solving this issue, their coaches are very approachable and are willing to share their system.  I have not been to their tournament in a few years, but as of probably 2-3 years ago, they broke the tournament into 4 sessions.  You would show up with your kid (register, pay, weigh in).  1-2 hours later you started wrestling.  I can't remember if it was 1 or 2, but even if it was 2....that's not that bad because you were done with wrestling after approximately 4 hours after entering the school.  That was for all sessions.  Oh yea, they had about 800-1000 kids enter that tournament each year.  There are some logistics of this tournament that are different than the bgsg, they ran it on 1/4 mats....volunteer h.s. refs, etc...

I spoke to their tournament director a few years ago about how they did this, and here are some of the tips I can remember off the top of my head:

* run the kids through basically an assembly line.

  - table 1, pick up a registration form, fill it out..after its filled out, proceed to table 2

  - table 2, pay and to get a weigh slip (color coded for your age division). 

  - weigh ins, small line there.  Do skin checks in the line if required, have kids strip to their singlets or boxers, whatever here.  They used 2, maybe 3 scales

  - have a runner take weigh slips to a bracketing room

Their bracketing room is where their magic occurred.  I asked him how they did this, and he said he just had a very experienced crew of people, that were all experts on writing up brackets.  He also wrote up detailed instructions on how to draw up the brackets.  With the help of a few of the more experienced coaches throughout the state, I fully believe the BGSG could be ran in multiple sessions and people could be in and out of that gym pretty quickly.  Probably within 4 hours.  For kids entering multiple brackets, obviously they would have to wait a lot longer, but that would be their choice. 

Oh yea, if you need volunteers to help with an assembly line type setup, just ask.  People would come out of the wood work if it was organized and Coach McCoy said he needed "10 people to help run registration & weigh ins". 

WOW...  I'm new to this site and to Ky wrestling but I must say it's nice to see so many people with a passion for the sport.  

Pioneer Pride - Everything is done on Friday night. We did it all with only two people this year and it was fine. We started on time and got out at a decent time considering the number of matches.

pre-registration is great, except for sometimes it causes issues with kids not showing up.  But that's a minor point...but i have had a kid sit in the stands all day waiting for his 1 match at a youth tournament before, only to find out that his kid didn't show....so he got a medal and left.  This was a very gifted athlete i had at Conner, and he HATED, absolutely HATED to sit in the stands.  He sat out for 2 years, and came back his 8th grade year. 

If you could break it up into sessions, i think that would be a great benefit to this tournament.  It takes more to organize, but the benefit is that kids entering in only 1 age division (probably the majority of your kids) wouldn't have to sit there the whole day.  I'm not bashing, I'm just offering one more opinion on how to help solve this problem.  Someone brought up the Ohio T of C, I've been there a couple of times, and you always know about when you're up...and they have like 64 man brackets at that thing. It's hard, but not impossible.

Coach McCoy, we are not talking about the 5 star classic, we are not talking about region 7, I am not talking about anything you did in the past. The only topic is this years BGSG. You can try to throw out your credentials, but, frankly, it does not and never will justify this years BGSG. 6-7 hours of waiting is unacceptable. Remember coach, in wrestling, no one cares what you did in the past, we only care about what is current.

Will you acknowledge for the record the following:

1. Kids waited > 6 hours before wrestling their first match

2. Many finals, both consolation and championship matches, were never wrestled

3. Kids left the tournament and never notified anyone thereby making their opponent stand there on the mat for 2 minutes before the match was forfeited.

I don't care if you did the tournament by yourself or with a million people. This tournament was terrible. If you are proud of it's outcome, then our comparitive expectations are so far off we will never come to any conclusion. I personally don't believe the 2008 BGSG was a proud moment for Ky wrestling. But hey, I suppose I simply expect more from others as I expect more from myself. You can try to justify things with useless statistics such as what time you were finished, but I was there until the end, it was sad and an absolute debacle.

Next year, separate the tournament into sessions thereby eliminating kids and parents from 6-7 hour waits before wrestling their first match.

Yes I will respond for the "record"

1. Yes kids did wait. Not sure of the time.

2. Yes, there were some, not many, finals that were not wrestled. The resaon was that many of the wrestlers wrestled in more than one weight class. I am sure some did leave due to waiting but most was due to the number of times they wrestled.

3. What am I supposed to do about kids leaving and not telling me. We gave them the time they get when tye do not show than forfeited them.

I only threw out those examples because you continue to say that I cannot run a tournament. I can run a tournament and do it well. Are there mistakes at times? Sure. I wish there weren't but there are. I am working as we speak to look into ideas on next years event. I am not going to commit to your idea until I research it and get it approved by the BGSG board. Please quit asking if it is going to happen. You made your point.

Look this is my last response. I will read your comments and take them into consideration.

Cliff Notes?  I dont feel like reading all these long posts that seem to be saying the same thing over and over so I skipped to the end.

  I will try to share my likes and dislikes.I have three sons wrestling so we get a lot of trying situations.They wrestled novice 85and 90,schoolboy and cadet 91 cadetand junior 145. The youngest wrestled two matches the first 30 minutes and was finished,the middle son had two other boys in each bracket but only wrestled two matches all day, the 145lb wrestled two matches in each bracket even though he won one and lost one in each bracket. The junior bracket had 9 boys but there was no 3rd or 4th place wrestling. We came to wrestle, we want matches, waiting long periods and getting only two matches is reason for me to consider not coming back. We sign up in multiple brackets too get matches. The contrast my 90lb son was at Central for the Ky State Freestyle and folkstyle he entered both styles and had one other boy do the same they wrestled 5 matches the same boy was at BSGS in the same two divisions plus another boy and he got two matches.This is one example of many and I accept there is waiting in wrestling and human error and all uncontrollable circumstances but I also accept if we go to other tourneys and they go faster and get more matches then BGSG can attempt to do the same.My suggestions would be more of the same,multiple sessions or split mats for 82lbs and under round robins for divisions with 5 or fewer wrestlers,are a few and all of eviile dads.We support wrestling in our area as often as we can and will continue do so and hope to see it become as well organized as any other state is.but that will take willingness too change for some and patience for others.One other thing specific to BGSG 25 dollars is a expensive entry fee compared to other off season tourneys so it should strive too get people as many matches as possible in the shortest time. Trying to be objective I think we all want the same thing but become too personal when we relay our disappointments .

I can bet right now there will be one session...without knowing what people are going to be there and at what weight class and age group until that morning how are you going to have two sessions.  Unless everyone comes to register and weigh in then come back 7 hours later...that's not practical either for people to drive there and back.  I don't like waiting for hours to have a first match and have done it before and will probably again.  It would be nice if it was quicker or done differently but to just get on here and whine like the two had makes no sense or is not costructive in any way.  If you haven't ever run a tournament or helped run a tournament then it's easy to sit off to the side and on your soap box and banter.   I never saw now nor in the past either coach mccoy or mathound get on here and  make a post for people to praise and applaud them for their efforts.

CoachK, you are not making sense.

You state if 2 sessions were held then SOME kids would have to sit through both sessions in order to wrestle different weights and ages.

Well, as it is now, EVERYONE has to sit and wait through what is effectively 2 sessions. If a wrestler CHOOSES to wrestle in both sessions, than that is his choice. But, to make everyone sit through both sessions is wrong.

You state that more than half, more like 75%, of the kids don't have parents in the stands. Perhaps parents are tired of sitting in bleachers for hours and NOT seeing their child wrestle. Perhaps they are tired of the bedlam. If I represent any component of the 25% of parents in the stands, then hear what I am saying. Interestingly, in Ohio, where tournaments are usually fast and smooth, the stands are full of spectators.

Coach McCoy posted the wrestling attendance at the BGSG for the last several years prior to this years event. Remember, it was a challenge to set attendance records. Therefore, based on the last several years, it was anticipated the wrestler attendance would exceed > 200. There were no surprises CoachK, just poor planning or absolute refusal to do things differently than the past.

My comment regarding the concession stand is accurate. I realize the economic impact of running a sport. I was a high school wrestling coach for 3 years. Yesterday's tournament forced wrestlers and fans to remain in the gym waiting for their name to be called. There was little organization and the calling of brackets and names was a potpouri. This prevented fans/wrestlers from leaving to eat and forced purchases through the concession stand. I always patronize every concession stand and support high school programs. I simply don't appreciate being forced to sit through 2 sessions when there was never any intention to have the older, heavier kids wrestle until mid- afternoon.

I didn't like sitting around all day waiting to see a defending state champion wrestle a state runner-up, only to have the champ forfeit the final match due to all matches being crammed into a brief time frame.

I too, didn't like seeing wrestlers who lost in the semi's advanced to the finals and having the error discovered after the championship match was finished. Especially, when it was my child who was supposed to be in the finals.

Kentucky wrestling goes through generational phases. By the time parents of younger wrestlers have been around long enough to realize these tournaments are poorly run, their child graduates. The next batch of parents don't realize until years later things can be done better. I am now the parent of an older child and will not commend this kind of poor planning. In fact, I find it offensive.

CoachK, I personally expect more out of Kentucky wrestling. I expect improvements each year, even if minor improvements.  I expect the people who run the tournament to carefully read these comments and understand the reason for the negative feedback.  Respect is a two way street. I guarentee no successful business, school, wrestling tournament, or classroom allows their patrons to sit idle for 7 hours. 

I will ask again, knowing there will be over 200 wrestlers next year, will there be two sessions or one smashed together session?   

CoachK, there are 15 years of data from the BGSG. Posted on a previous thread was data dating back to 2000. It would not require much effort to look at the ages and wts and divide into 2 sessions.

For example:

Ages 5-12 from 9 am to noon

Ages 13 and above 1-4 pm

At an absolute minimum, this would prevent kids 13 and above from sitting around while the little kids wrestle.

Look at some of my previous posts on how complimentary I was to coaches for their smoothly run tournament. It just so happens, the BGSG seems to be the same year after year. Perhaps I should post nothing and then you would never know about the man who can't sit in the bleachers because of a bad back and all of the family members who could but won't attend sessions because of excessive waits.  What is better for the overall health of our sport, apathy and denial or the bold truth and action.

Obviously the bold truth with some sort of constructive criticism and not "garbage"talking or such.  I too have a bad back and it kills me every Saturday when I sit there for 12 hours on Saturday on bleachers waiting for my kids to wrestle for the 5 mintues then go sit back down again, but I continue to do it.  Maybe that is a possibility to have young kids come in early and register and wrestle and then have the older kids come back in the afternoon and register then and wrestle.  I wrestled some BGSG back in the late 80's and early 90's and I believe we did that one year and I was in two weight classes and wrestled 3 back to back matches because of it, so that might happen again if it gets split up.  Maybe its a possibility but instead of putting down people and comparing everything to OHIO and saying everyone in Ky is terrible and doesn't know how to run a tournament maybe those comments right there should have been the first post.  This last post I think was the most effective and straight to the point without any negativity directed towards anyone.  If I didn't know any better I would think that you are one of my bosses, being negative and dirogatory towards others  :-).

CoachK, there are 15 years of data from the BGSG. Posted on a previous thread was data dating back to 2000. It would not require much effort to look at the ages and wts and divide into 2 sessions.

For example:

Ages 5-12 from 9 am to noon

Ages 13 and above 1-4 pm

At an absolute minimum, this would prevent kids 13 and above from sitting around while the little kids wrestle.

Look at some of my previous posts on how complimentary I was to coaches for their smoothly run tournament. It just so happens, the BGSG seems to be the same year after year. Perhaps I should post nothing and then you would never know about the man who can't sit in the bleachers because of a bad back and all of the family members who could but won't attend sessions because of excessive waits.  What is better for the overall health of our sport, apathy and denial or the bold truth and action.

so...the BGSG didn't go so well?.... :?

Perhaps I should post nothing

I think that is an great idea!!

IPEA is right, and everyone else is wrong

:-D

WOOOOOO HOOOOOOO  :-D :-D :-D

ALL RIIIIGGHTT!!!!!

Now were getting back in it.  We haven't had a spunky thread like this in a long time.  I was getting bored reading the posts on here.  

Heck I don't think I have said much in the last couple of months.  Can you believe that????

Way to go IPEA way to stir the pot.  Wish I would have gone to the tourney so I could complain too.  

After reading these posts however its time to to take ye ole muzzle off.  (I can't believe I am going to say this but) I think I agree with the great and powerful oz on this one.  IPEA has been pretty critical on the people running the BGSG, but not without a reason.  

I'm quite certain that this tread would not have lasted as long without him.  The posts have been both intelectual (sp) and Bart Simpson-ish or (Barney Five-ish depending on your age) at the same time.  I didn't think that was possible.  

However you are sounding like a broken record (2 sessions, 2 sessions, 2 sessions) C'mon this is not the silver bullet.  

Coach K you should know the squeeky wheel gets the most oil.  That's all IPEA is doing and hopefully it works.  Critisizm weather totally constructive or not is good.  I think he did give some contructive critisizm he just back handed it.  

PP (oh I just love saying that) are you alright?? Your posts were so nice.  Has someone else taken over your name??

As for Rebel_wrestler_171.  What are you tryng to do.  have you got a problem?  One sentance responses that make little sense at all.  Are you trying to race me to the most negative Karma?  Or are you just trying to become the KW.com jester?

Keep up the good work fella's Ill be watching and laughing it up.   :-D

Oh and please don't remind me of my grammer everyone already knows I'm a blow hard that has no grammer.

Okay, I'm finally going to chime in here with a voice of reason.  I sat through almost the entire painful (for reasons other than wait times) day.  I have been going to the BGSG for the last 12 years (missing only 1 or 2).  I will start by saying the event has improved dramatically from the early days.  Improved attendance, competition, venue, and organization.  That is not to say we can't continue to improve.  And if we want to keep the competition level high we have to make this an event that state champions and placers want to attend.  I do think 2 sessions is a silver bullet for this event.  Bout numbers would help as well.  As Coach McCoy has pointed out, pre-registration will not help as he already has all of the weigh-in info by Friday night and you don't know weights until the weighin session.  And based on the relatively steady participation figures, I think a session system could be set up pretty easily and work well.  I would still be there all day, but that would be my choice and I would know when to prepare for what events.  I think Coach McCoy will take the constructive criticisms and make improvements to what has turned into competitively the highlight summer tournament in KY.

    If 2 sessions is the silver bullet then BGSG will have egg on their face.  This is an extremely simple solution.  Summer tourneys have been doing this for years, even when I wrestled they had the youngens go first then the older latter. 

    Oh well problem solved, no more fun.  :x

     If 2 sessions is the silver bullet then BGSG will have egg on their face.  This is an extremely simple solution.  Summer tourneys have been doing this for years, even when I wrestled they had the youngens go first then the older latter. 

     Oh well problem solved, no more fun.  :x

you should run for president...  our economy would be back in shape in no time at all. 

WOOOOOO HOOOOOOO  :-D :-D :-D

ALL RIIIIGGHTT!!!!!

Now were getting back in it.  We haven't had a spunky thread like this in a long time.  I was getting bored reading the posts on here. 

Heck I don't think I have said much in the last couple of months.  Can you believe that????

Way to go IPEA way to stir the pot.  Wish I would have gone to the tourney so I could complain too. 

After reading these posts however its time to to take ye ole muzzle off.  (I can't believe I am going to say this but) I think I agree with the great and powerful oz on this one.  IPEA has been pretty critical on the people running the BGSG, but not without a reason. 

I'm quite certain that this tread would not have lasted as long without him.  The posts have been both intelectual (sp) and Bart Simpson-ish or (Barney Five-ish depending on your age) at the same time.  I didn't think that was possible. 

However you are sounding like a broken record (2 sessions, 2 sessions, 2 sessions) C'mon this is not the silver bullet. 

Coach K you should know the squeeky wheel gets the most oil.  That's all IPEA is doing and hopefully it works.  Critisizm weather totally constructive or not is good.  I think he did give some contructive critisizm he just back handed it. 

PP (oh I just love saying that) are you alright?? Your posts were so nice.  Has someone else taken over your name??

GRAP- I still win for most negative karma.

As for Rebel_wrestler_171.  What are you tryng to do.  have you got a problem?  One sentance responses that make little sense at all.  Are you trying to race me to the most negative Karma?  Or are you just trying to become the KW.com jester?

Keep up the good work fella's Ill be watching and laughing it up.  :-D

Oh and please don't remind me of my grammer everyone already knows I'm a blow hard that has no grammer.

Grap- I still win for most negative karma.

Yea OW,  I was wondering when you would pop up.  but you are trying to get that award.

I'll bet however I have the most combined Negative and possitive. 

That's what happens when you just speak what you feel.

That's what happens when you just speak what you feel.

....and you're a dork. 

Aww c'mon PP at least I'm a lovable dork.  :-D

Aww c'mon PP at least I'm a lovable dork.  :-D

Only to your wife.  Had to take a swing since you called me nice yesterday. 

I wrestled in the turney and i thought it went fine  :-D

I wrestled in the turney and i thought it went fine  :-D

Here we go again, thank you for bringing us back to full circle.  Were you there for over 6 hours before your first match?  I suspect you weren't...otherwise, you'd probably be ticked like some are.  If you didn't have to wait over 6 hours for your first match, then consider yourself lucky and you can join the group of people singing the praise. 

Bottom line, long waits are bad for the sport and should be addressed in the future by responsible tournament directors.  I think Coach McCoy will do the right thing next year and try to fix this.  If not, heaven help him if IPEA finds him!  :-D :-D  That was just a joke people, lighten up.  The tournament can't just improve in numbers, it has to improve in quality organization. 

There has been a lot of great tips already brought up on this thread for improvements already, and maybe this has already been stated, but just being able to estimate when you would be up would be great.  So bout numbers would help a lot of people and cut down on some complaints.  Just like IPEA said, you felt trapped because you really didn't know when your next bout was.  You couldn't plan for a break.  So here's my constructive criticism...next year use sessions and use bouts.

ok it's time to shut all of you up. the main reason you all had to wait is because you all signed up for 2 weight classes. that doubled the matches and doubled the time. I-PINNED-EM-ALL if you r who i think you r you have NOOOOOOOOOOO room to talk about disrespect. i believe i recall you starting an argument with the head table after he changed your sons mistake on the bracket with out even looking at the bout sheets. he took your word for it and respected your word as a man and believed you had been wronged. then you had the nerve to make a comment about the way the tournement was run. did u happen to notice the whole tournement was run by TWO PEOPLE. mr. mccoy and his father. and you have no clue the time and effort it takes until you have done it your self. the 352 matches and the 80 brackets were done by mr.mccoy and myself the night before. we were there till almost 12. then came in at 7 am just to be confronted by you and the other crazy friggin parents who argue about anything and everything. i also reffed the tournement and had to listen to all the complaints about the continuous clock. until you run a tournement do not complain. you have absolutly no clue what it is like and if i recall mr.mccoy still runs the fastest tournement ive seen in kentucky so far. i've been to almost every tournement kentucky has and BY FAR he is the most efficient. i know you your self have been to tournement where you don't leave the gym till almost 11pm sometimes more. shut up and be happy your son even got to wrestle. and be glad he is healthy enough to wrestle. take what you have and be happy with it instead of complaining about what goes wrong.

as for the rest of you take what ive said and go with it. volunteer and help at these events to help this go smoother. as you said all you did was sit and wait. do something and help the staff at any tournement. we actually had a few people volunteer and it helped tremenously. if you dont like the way something is run do it your self or shut up. plain and simple. now let all the smart a$$ remarks come.

Grap- I still win for most negative karma.

not for long, because of people like Bernard my Karma is already really low and i have only had this account for 3 or 4 months

Armbar - I don't know what tournaments you go to in Kentucky, but I've been taking my son to tournaments for 12 years and this was the absolute LONGEST we've ever waited.  We paid for this event (alot for a tournament).  I find it extremely presumptuous that you would tell someone to shut up and be glad their kid could wrestle.  The realities are:

1.  It was a bad tournament - plain and simple. 

2.  People were aggravated - including Mr. McCoy.

3.  My son's bracket was wrong and was not fixed.  He should have been in the    finals and as we were leaving he was being called for 3rd and 4th.  What a shame that kids turned out to wrestle and left without their matches.

4.  Those of us who have elite wrestlers and have been around a long time know how to run tournaments.  Most of the people on this site have run tournaments, coached and reffed.  Also we are spectators, fanatics and parents who know the sport inside and out.  Don't be delusional and think you and Mr. McCoy are the only people in Kentucky who can run a tournament. 

5.  Stand back and look at the criticism.  Is it true?  And how can it be fixed?  Don't be so emotional.  Just fix it.  Otherwise, this tournament will go down the tubes. 

the tournament was run exactly the same as it has been for as long as i remember the only difference was all the kids who wrestled in 2 weight classes. and yes ive been to quite a few that we have left at 11 o clock id love to go to the tournaments you go to if you get out as early as you say. since you run such a good tournament why don't you call BGSG comission and host it at campbell county next year. and i agree mr.mccoy was very aggitated it was a stressful day. but i am absolutly not sayin he is the only one who runs a good tournament. just let it die. your kid got matches, he beat everyone i'm guessing and got recognized probably there were a few college coaches there so you got nothing to argue about. and the truth is if you want it to go faster tell everyone not to sign up for 2 weight classes. simple as that.

ok it's time to shut all of you up. the main reason you all had to wait is because you all signed up for 2 weight classes. that doubled the matches and doubled the time. I-PINNED-EM-ALL if you r who i think you r you have NOOOOOOOOOOO room to talk about disrespect. i believe i recall you starting an argument with the head table after he changed your sons mistake on the bracket with out even looking at the bout sheets. he took your word for it and respected your word as a man and believed you had been wronged. then you had the nerve to make a comment about the way the tournement was run. did u happen to notice the whole tournement was run by TWO PEOPLE. mr. mccoy and his father. and you have no clue the time and effort it takes until you have done it your self. the 352 matches and the 80 brackets were done by mr.mccoy and myself the night before. we were there till almost 12. then came in at 7 am just to be confronted by you and the other crazy friggin parents who argue about anything and everything. i also reffed the tournement and had to listen to all the complaints about the continuous clock. until you run a tournement do not complain. you have absolutly no clue what it is like and if i recall mr.mccoy still runs the fastest tournement ive seen in kentucky so far. i've been to almost every tournement kentucky has and BY FAR he is the most efficient. i know you your self have been to tournement where you don't leave the gym till almost 11pm sometimes more. shut up and be happy your son even got to wrestle. and be glad he is healthy enough to wrestle. take what you have and be happy with it instead of complaining about what goes wrong.

as for the rest of you take what ive said and go with it. volunteer and help at these events to help this go smoother. as you said all you did was sit and wait. do something and help the staff at any tournement. we actually had a few people volunteer and it helped tremenously. if you dont like the way something is run do it your self or shut up. plain and simple. now let all the smart a$$ remarks come.

Please forgive me Armbar, for I have sinned.

You are 100% correct. Never have I been put in my place by such a well thought out, highly articulate master of clarity and common sense. Never will I post on this site again. My shame has reduced me to a hapless soul with no purpose to exist in the squalid world of failure and defeat I have created. The fact you dignified my response with your precious time and wisdom forces a tremor of sorrow and humility throughout my body.

After reading your remarks, I am now happy I have the health to even type a response. I now see the world through different eyes. Suddenly, the 7 hour wait is trivial and meaningless. Thank you, you have enlightened and freed my soul.

well its always good to change some ones life like that. i can sleep a lil better now

Please forgive me Armbar, for I have sinned.

Never will I post on this site again.

it's too good to be true

Armbar if my sons had not wrestled two classes two of them would have gotten one match each and the third son two matches which I would have paid 75 dollars for.We would not be back for that kind of equity.You ask for help to run things the same and you probably wont get many offers.Ask for help to make some of the suggested changes .Your attitude that people should shut up and feel blessed that they were able too wait excessively long waits and have their brackets messed up or leave because they dont know they have a match coming up is ridiculous,acknowledging there are problems is the first step to fixing them. We experienced all of these things at BGSG this year .I have been to this tourney three years in a row and if some changes are not made wont be back.

Never will I post on this site again.

I'm not religious but God please let this be true.  If it does I just might attend church on Sunday.

My shame has reduced me to a hapless soul with no purpose to exist in the squalid world of failure and defeat I have created.

I make a motion for you to act on your feelings here and cease to exist.  Can I get a second?

I'm not religious but God please let this be true.  If it does I just might attend church on Sunday.

I make a motion for you to act on your feelings here and cease to exist.  Can I get a second?

Huntertown Church of the Nazarene, Huntertown Rd., Versailles,KY Service starts at 11:00am on Sundays.

Armbar if my sons had not wrestled two classes two of them would have gotten one match each and the third son two matches which I would have paid 75 dollars for.We would not be back for that kind of equity.You ask for help to run things the same and you probably wont get many offers.Ask for help to make some of the suggested changes .Your attitude that people should shut up and feel blessed that they were able too wait excessively long waits and have their brackets messed up or leave because they dont know they have a match coming up is ridiculous,acknowledging there are problems is the first step to fixing them. We experienced all of these things at BGSG this year .I have been to this tourney three years in a row and if some changes are not made wont be back.

workhard - well said, and great points.  i think the message is loud and clear.  hopefully this issue is well addressed next year with SESSIONS.  i'm sure it will be.  it's funny armbar thinks that wrestling in multiple brackets automatically means you should wait longer.  NO!! it should only mean you get more matches.  i've taken my son to tournaments in indiana quite a bit (as i think you do as well) and always enter multiple brackets in those USAW tournaments.  it is not frowned upon there.  we end up waiting in a gym less because...and i'll repeat this for the reading impaired....they run the tournaments in SESSIONS....and the bout numbers are posted.  please everyone try to conceptualize this with me - an organized tournament where you walk in and register, and you can easily estimate within 30-60 minutes of when your first match will be.  you can wait in the gym if you want to watch more wrestling, or you can leave and grab a bite to eat, maybe take a stroll in a park.  after your kid wrestles, you know how many more bouts there will be before you are up again.  

i just want to thank IPEA from the bottom of my heart for having the guts to speak out about this issue.  you are a revolutionary and we should make a holiday after you.

people don't ever forget this is truly a family sport.  you have to consider the moms, dads, grandparents, and younger siblings in the stands as well as the wrestlers.  long waits should be avoided if possible, there is absolutely no debating that.

"...the tournament was run exactly the same as it has been for as long as i remember..."

I know some will say "if it isn't broke, don't fix it". But I also learned a long time ago that if the answer to any question of why something is done the way it is is "we've always done it that way" is an immediate red flag that it probably needs changing. (This is the root of outdated meaningless traditions. Always know why and have a good reason to do what you're doing!!!) I don't say this to be critical but to highlight that for anything to get better, you always need to evaluate and reflect back on results. Be willing to change process. Be willing to try new things. If they don't work, fine, at least you tried in an effort to make it better.

Couple suggestions:

I agree you shouldn't set a deadline for registration but I still feel "promoting" early registration will only help matters; certainly can't hurt. To help promote early registration, do like most other sporting events in that you have a discounted registration fee for early registration. (Also discount registration fee for parents who have multiple kids participating? If the kids wrestling two divisions causes such a headache, charge them for each division they participate in? Don't shoot me; I'm just thinking out loud!)

Establish remote weighin sites a lot sooner. Would be great if could get some of these sights to agree to be permanent so kids know where they can go each year instead of scrambling around at last minute. They just end up waiting to morning of.

Publish a list of jobs (and # of people needed) you need volunteer help for and let folks sign up. I think a lot more people would volunteer if they knew what volunteering for. For us parents who get antsy sitting around all day waiting for our kids to wrestle, volunteering gives us something to do to pass the time and less time to complain.  :wink:

Wow?!?!

OK my comments broken down.

the main reason you all had to wait is because you all signed up for 2 weight classes. that doubled the matches and doubled the time.

This should not have caused longer waits.  In fact I can remember wrestling 2 wt. classes and not haveing enough time to rest between them.  Wrestling 2 wt. classes should cause wait time to decrease between matches.

I-PINNED-EM-ALL if you r who i think you r you have NOOOOOOOOOOO room to talk about disrespect. i believe i recall you starting an argument with the head table after he changed your sons mistake on the bracket with out even looking at the bout sheets. he took your word for it and respected your word as a man and believed you had been wronged. then you had the nerve to make a comment about the way the tournement was run.

Was he correct?  Was the bracket incorrect?  If so, where is the problem here?  He came down and offered some help in fixing the problem.

did u happen to notice the whole tournement was run by TWO PEOPLE. mr. mccoy and his father. and you have no clue the time and effort it takes until you have done it your self.

Here lies the problem.  As you stated there needs to be more experienced people running this tourney. 

the 352 matches and the 80 brackets were done by mr.mccoy and myself the night before. we were there till almost 12. then came in at 7 am just to be confronted by you and the other crazy friggin parents who argue about anything and everything.

Getting ready the night before is what is suppose to happen.  I hope you had 2 computers with the same program.  Therefore 40 brackets on each would have been much easier and faster to complete.  Since there is no team score this is possible.

i also reffed the tournement and had to listen to all the complaints about the continuous clock. until you run a tournement do not complain.

Must have been your 1st referee gig.  Get use to it.  Complaints happen to reffs all the time, i'm sure you have had a moan or groan at an official before.

you have absolutly no clue what it is like and if i recall mr.mccoy still runs the fastest tournement ive seen in kentucky so far. i've been to almost every tournement kentucky has and BY FAR he is the most efficient. i know you your self have been to tournement where you don't leave the gym till almost 11pm sometimes more.

Ahh yes here lies the problem again.  No one is doubting the other tourneys in which Mr. McCoy has run, only this one.  As for the rest of KY.  The long waits and long tourneys is an epidemic in KY, and needs to be solved.  When you compair yourself to the bottom you always look better.

shut up and be happy your son even got to wrestle. and be glad he is healthy enough to wrestle. take what you have and be happy with it instead of complaining about what goes wrong.

Sure glad you were not around in 1770's.  We may still be part of England if this was a popular belief.

as for the rest of you take what ive said and go with it. volunteer and help at these events to help this go smoother. as you said all you did was sit and wait. do something and help the staff at any tournement. we actually had a few people volunteer and it helped tremenously. if you dont like the way something is run do it your self or shut up. plain and simple.

Volunteering is great, but not if you don't agree with what you must do.  Volunteering so to help change the format may help, but volunteering to help something that is not working won't help.  The Titanic could have had thousands of volunteers but the ship would have still sank.

Bottom line

Because eveyone knows that Coach McCoy can run a great tourney is why there are so many compaints.  All that is asked is that this tourney is run as well as he runs his other tourneys.  If you believe that it was then you need to take a better look.  I'm sure Coach McCoy already knows this and is trying to improve it for next year.  Maybe the problem is qualified volunteers.  If this is the real problem then he needs to state this and let people know months in advance. 

Big mouth out.

Grappler of Old what a great last post. How can you remain so diplomatic when dealing with some of these numbsculls who don't understand the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, the people who think we should "shut up" and "be thankful are kids are healthy enough to wrestle" also believe the earth is flat. I am happy my son is healthy to wrestle, but, I still want him to achieve his best, win or lose.

Grap of Old, you are now my hero. Coach McCoy's 5 star classic is an awesome tournament, I know he can also make BGSG similiarly great. That is, if Armbar will allow him to change the process. Remember, Armbar's butt has now conformed to the shape of the wooden bleachers from sitting on them year after year for hours on end. Personally, I want to avoid this if possible.

I agree that change is good. I am looking into making change for next year. The problem is people began making personal attacks (not all) through email and on here rather than just saying what can we do to fix it. I ma not looking for sympathy of gratitude but this how people (referees, coaches, etc) throw in the towel after trying some. I have been around for a while and expect this out of people. Some of us (and I won't say any names) need to learn that we can be constructive in our comments without belittling and attacking the person and situation. This is the only way we will get more referees and others to want to help wrestling to grow.

Grappler of Old what a great last post. How can you remain so diplomatic when dealing with some of these numbsculls who don't understand the real issue at hand.

I do have an epiphany (College word) every once in a while. 

Just don