I heard that they will have tm duals for big and liltte schools of the teams that went last season who is which and what new tm will get a break :?:

Bold tm's I believe are Big school.

Woodford Co TeamChampions

Scott

North Hardin 6th place

Union Co

St X 8th place

Eastern

McCreary

Wayne 4th place

Campbell Co

Henry Clay

Trinity 5th place

Ryle 2nd place

South Oldham 7th place

Sheldon Clark

Dunbar

Larue 3rd place

Am I the only one sick of this big school, small school stuff? Is it really that big of a deal? I think someone said it awhile ago on one of these threads, KY is not there yet... What's the point?

Does it help a program if they are the small school state dual champs? I think it is a joke. Talking about bad wrestling? We are trying to get competiton better in KY, how's this helping?

If schools want their "small schools" to get better, do things like starting youth programs. Look at Larue. They have built a good program from nothing and will win a real state title some day.

Well, having the small school thing is a good way of getting more schools to wrestle. The boosters at any school, and the kids and parents for that matter, want something tangible to show any incremental success. The boosters at most schools are not going to like sitting around and getting the living snot beat out of them because everyone is wrestling the same division. It would take on the perception of being a money pit to them, and they'd be likely to cancel the program to funnel the money into a sport thats classified (A, AA, AAA ... not CIA stuff) where they actually have a chance at winning. Is that good for Ky wrestling too ? I see doing away with it detrimental.

The small school large school divisions should continue for that reason alone. I do like the format of everyone wrestling together and then separating them out. You get the best of both world's, LaRue and other small schools compete with Woodford, Ryle, and Campbell Co. You can't say they're dodging everyone. Then, the best of these schools gets a trophy to appease and reward incremental successes. Whether or not their trophy means a whole lot is another question. People like winning even if it doesn't mean as much, for whatever reason, and it can't be persuaded away with reason.

I will say though, if a small school places overall i find it hokey they get two tropies. Maybe that process should be revisited.

Not to compare apples to oranges here, but it is a proven fact that every state that has divided up into divisions has had an increase in the number of schools to field wrestling teams. If dividing means we will have more teams, then I am all for it.

I would have to agree Happy Pappy and grapplinfan.

Currently it's my understanding this is ONLYfor Team Duals :?:

Their will still be only one state tournament with one bracket per weight class and everyone will via for the team championship.

Is this not true :?:

I just want to know which school will be in the small category for the Tm Duals.

Sorry if I upset you Just Wrestle, or is there more to this :?:

Everyone wrestles together at the state tourney, but they do have large and small school champions. Essentially the small school with the most points wins the small school title, even if they place 7th overall for example.

Ok, I understand that, but back to my question, I know the difference between big and small school, its based off of student population.

But which schools are considered small :?:

I believe Laure and Wayne are, so for team duals they are the only ones that will wrestle:?:

There has to be more small schools than two or three.

Let me see if I can help. U R right, LaRue and Wayne are small schools along with (for example) Union, Hoptown, Ft. Campbell, Caldwell Co. from Region !, Ft. Knox, Danville and maybe Anderson Co. along with LaRue from Region 2, etc..etc... I have been told that there will be two different individual state titles wrestled for if and when this ever comes aboutprobably using sixteen man brackets. Both tournaments will take place at the same place and time and both will be KHSAA sanctioned whereas now, the small school state title is just a KWCA award. The size of the school obviously determines what division they are in and I think for the most part that if you are a 4A football school then you will be a large school and everyone else will be considered small. I have been told that Woodford is barely a 4A football school for instance. Also, there will be two different state duals. If you think they are not seriously considering this then just go to the Kentucky Wrestling Coaches Association web site and see if that survey is still there that directly relates to this subject.

jus dont worry about small school large schools im in small school. but if you train hard and go hard everyday and push people one ur team you can compete with the best.

jus dont worry about small school large schools im in small school. but if you train hard and go hard everyday and push people one ur team you can compete with the best.

Point well taken.

I don't see a problem with big or small schools, or even two individual state champions in each weight class.

They do it everwhere else.

Yes, you will have state champions that have been beaten by others either big or small schools possible, but hopefully they will have meet in the season and that will be that.

You can bragg and say you beat a state champion, if they ever devide it.

The more positive things that happen to make wrestling better I'm for it.

Win lose or draw.

Is anyone planning a small school state duels this year.If they are let everyone else in on it.Where will it be held. :?:

Is anyone planning a small school state duels this year.If they are let everyone else in on it.Where will it be held. :?:

Rumor has it that Larue is hosting small school state duals :?:

I don't know whick schools can attend.

This is just my two cents worth on the small school big school thing. Having moved here from Ohio , I have been to our state tournament as well as theirs three times. If the number I was told last year was accurate(if), we only have 73 schools total in this state that have wrestling. Ohio has three divisions with about 70 some schools in each divisions. They have 16 man brackets for each divisions and crown three state champs in each weight class. This format makes for a great tournament. If I understand this whole thing right, the point behind creating two divisions here is in the hopes of more schools starting wrestling programs. That is certainly a step in the right direction. Small schools will still compete against big schools throught the year . The only seperation should we decide to follow in Ohio format would be that team duals are seperate, and tehre would be two state champions in each weight class.

Well then, refdad, Ky is not all that far off of Ohio on the number of teams competing. You say Ky has 73 teams, in one division. Ohio has 3 divisions of 73 teams approximately. I looked at the state population stats, the internet is awesome, they have 3 times the population of Ky. Therefore, it stands to reason Ky should have approximately 1/3 as many teams ... or roughly the 73 teams it currently has.

Based on that fact, perhaps the one division format isn't discouraging that many teams from getting into the sport at the present. If you tripled Ky's population you'd have roughly the same number of teams as you've quoted from Ohio.

But, if you could get more in, it would still be a plus and i'd support classification if it did do that.

I don't like having wrestling split into big school-little school classifications. Whether it is Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, or wherever, there are a number of "small" schools that can wrestle some the "big" schools out of the gym. I like to see smaller schools have their shot against bigger schools. Sometimes, the bigger school is the powerhouse. Sometimes, the smaller school is the powerhouse. Sometimes, both the small & big schools are powerhouses & put on one whale of a meet the fans would enjoy watching.

Worthmatt: you are right about the fact , some small schools can wrestle the big schools out of the gym. A few...Most cant.There is a plus and a negative to almost everything. The posative thing about this is (supposed) to be that smaller schools that dont currently have a wrestling program will be more encouraged to start a program with hopes od being able to compete in the small school division fairly soon after starting their program. If it bring more schools and more kids into the sport then it has been a positive thing. Coaches can allways set up a tournament for the best six or eight schools,(both big and small division school) in the state and call it king of the bluegrass or something like that so that woodford and LaRue can compete against Ryle and Campbell co and a few others.

I heard that they will have tm duals for big and liltte schools of the teams that went last season who is which and what new tm will get a break :?:

Bold tm's I believe are Big school.

Woodford Co TeamChampions

Scott

North Hardin 6th place

Union Co

St X 8th place

Eastern

McCreary

Wayne 4th place

Campbell Co

Henry Clay

Trinity 5th place

Ryle 2nd place

South Oldham 7th place

Sheldon Clark

Dunbar

Larue 3rd place

It will be intresting to see how Woodford does at this Western Brown Hammer and Anvil tourney in January.

We'll probably get hammered. On the anvil, again lol.

Woodford and anyone who knows anything about OH HS wrestling knows theres no shame in losing to Eastwood. The Cubberly boys are some tough kids and that team is one of the best in the midwest.

Ryan Cubberly is a machine, he was nationally ranked in the top 30 overall 125 pound rankings last year. Thats freshmans to seniors, not just his grade. He lost to the number 4 ranked guy in the country (overall) in the Ohio state finals, by 5. The kid is an outrage, he teched Parks i heard. I think Pemberville also had a guy pin Starks.

Its a really good thing to do going to meets like that if you're a good team. Losing to someone like that is a good way to refocus your team and let them know that even though they're awesome there's teams that can still smoke you. Motivates more discipline and a results in a higher level of achievement than if they had maintained the status quo of beating the same people.

A team like Woodford, Campbell Co, or Ryle that wrestles in Ohio tourneys applies what they've learned over there in the Ky meets too. Its also good for Ky wrestling in that then the other teams pick up what these teams have learned venturing out other places like that when they face them. In a sense, it raises everyone's game.

don't make the mistake of thinking splitting the big and small schools will help to get more wrestling teams started for 2 simple reasons. first off, you are all going to have to face the fact that we live in a state that despite what the gov't in frankfort is telling you, is at the bottom end of just about every category when it comes to money filtered into the education system. do not believe the lies they tell you, ky flat out SUCKS at funding education. very few school districts nowadays are interested in looking for money to fund the start up costs of any new sport for their curriculums, much less wrestling which includes purchasing a mat to get a team started. education comes first and superintendents across the state are constantly fighting to get the money for that, adding new sports teams is low priority for them. also we have a khsaa title which calls for equality in oppurtunities for sports participation for both sexes. any sport started for boys means a sport must be started for the girls. now your talking about a school having to start 2 new programs and wondering what sport to start for the girls to maintain the balance. not many superintendents and school adminastrators out there who wish to deal with this. i hate to break your hearts but the cry for the schools to be split according to size is nothing more than a case of some bruised egos amongst certain small school coaches searching for some more recognition for their wrestlers and themselves. and this may be a good thing, it all depends upon each ones own view. but do not believe all these masked excuses you are being given about loads of wrestling teams springing up or our competition level beginning to climb towards that of other states, it's hogwash. you want more teams in this state so we can grow and increase our competitivness? tell everyone you can to start voting and clean house in frankfort as well as start writing to our state congressmen and tell them WE WANT MORE DONE IN THE AREA OF EDUCATIONAL FUNDING AND WE WANT IT NOW!!! until that changes, nothing much else will. and all you wrestlers about to reach voting age, now you have some insight as to how taking part in the political process can help the sport you all so dearly love. so go out and VOTE!!!!

Rocky: What you say I am sure is true, but I refuse to take the satndpoint of this is useless , we cant make a difference untill things change in our state govt..I had posted a reply on this topic before and didnt get a reply from anyone on the question I had asked. There is going to be a new highschool built and will open at the begining of 2008 year. It will split Ryle and Conner , getting students from each. Lets say a couple more schools start a wrestling program and a couple more schools are built that also start up programs. At what number do we say.....wait a minute we cant continue with just one divisinon. 80? 90? Having one division is fine at 70 or 73, but if the sport does in fact see some growth ,what is the number at which we say , maybe we need to look at changing this??

I don't like splitting anything up. But there should be a small school state duals. If the small school beleives it can contend with the big schools, let them wrestle the big schools. Small schools have just as good of individuals as large schools, just not as many, because of the smaller population within the school. It is hard to fill 14 spots with 14 state placers when you are a small school.

For example:

Wayne County(small school) = 2 state champions

Woodford County(large school) = 1 state champion

Lawrence County (small school)= 2 state champions (ohio products)

Dunbar (large school) = 0 state champs

Harrison County (large school) = 0 state champs

And.. Woodford County annihilated Wayne in a dual

You are exactly right. You can have good individual kids just not as many. What I am wondering though, is no matter what the number of schools all of you all think it should only be one division? Even if it ever got to 90 schools, only one division? Am I understanding this correct?

refdad - i'd say 70 is probably a good number for 1 division to shoot for....just based on our current setup....state seems to be just about right. now if our teams grew up to say 100, i'd say split it to 50 each.

i don't understand why people get upset about this issue. it's not cowardly or anything, but larger schools do have a competitive advantage over smaller schools. it's a fact, think about a school with a graduating class of 50, compared to trinity with probably 400+ in a grade.....how can they compete? Good coaching will only take you so far.... btw - for those who act like the small schools are running scared, I'd say larue will wrestle woodford, ryle or anyone...they've never ran from competition...and talking to their coaches, they don't complain 1 bit about wrestling a state tourney with all in 1 division.

pioneer pride. i agree and thanks for a good reply