Another BS Kentucky tournament.  Get here early, weigh in, eat and wait, wait, and wait. 11 am and still no wrestling. Same old BS. Ky wrestling does not move forwrad it moves high speed reverse. Hand written seedng, no preparation. Pancake breakfast and now pizza lunch still no wrestling. A disgrace, nothing more nothing less. In Ky we are fed garbage and we accept it.          I know running a tourney is hard work, I shouldn't bash underpaid coaches, do it myself. Come people, attack me.

No bashing here, you're exactly right. With the proper planning things can run smoothly. It does take a ton of work to get these tournaments up and running, unfortunately it's usually done by only a few people. My suggestion would be to plan a throughly as possibly and don't miss the details. Like a high speed printer so you're not waiting an hour for bout sheets to print. It is the little details that make things run smoothly.

Tell us how you really feel.Don't hold anything back Idated

Cape Girardeau Missouri tiger classic is the best organized tourny ive ever been to. It goes at a great pace and has some very good schools there. Great programs you can buy, kinda like the State Tourny sells.  Its a 2 day Tourny but you get to weigh in friday night insted of saturday morning.

I talked to someone at TC and they said that a couple of schools brought their JV teams as well, so they had to reseed and had a couple of 32 man brackets. I guess somethings you just can't plan for.

at the bruin duals everyone wrestled 5 matches there was almost no wait and and i got out at 3:15 (we were the last team there not all tournements are bad

Any tournament I have seen in Indiana starts on time...you can set your watch to it.  Every tournament except the state tournament, starts late and is often unorganized.  Perhaps Ky should outsource to some Indiana schools to run their tournaments.  It can be highly frustrating.

Having said that, it is great that there are multiple tournaments every weekend as I have seen Kentucky wrestling continue to improve significantly so better to have a late start than no start at all.

On a positive note, I was at the Fern Creek middle school tournament (Ranger jr stepping up this weekend) today and they did a very good job.  Not sure how many kids were there, but they added 45, 50, 55, 60, and 65 pounds to the middle school weights and most were nearly full 16 man brackets.  We started at 8:45 (scheduled for 9:00) and with a few breaks, face off, helping clean up and roll mats, and awards presentation we were on the bus headed home before 6:00.  It wasn't without issues (officials, a couple of kids with long waits), but for the size of the event it went very well.  Great competition as well.

Any results yet or are they still wrestling :-D

I don't mean to be the heavy, but seriously. There is always an excuse, there is always a reason why the tournament started late in KENTUCKY! This time a team unexpectedly brought their JV team. Tell them TOO BAD! Run the tournament just like they do in Ohio and Indiana. Give the teams rules and guidelines beforehand and if they don't adhere, bye-bye, take your kids home!

If wrestling is supposed to start at 10am, then start it at 10am, not 11:15am. If the finals are supposed to start at 7pm, start them at 7, not 9pm. Weigh-ins at 8 am and wrestling wraps up at 11pm. 15 hours is too long. Injuries occur when kids are fatigued.

I am tired of the bleeding hearts justifying this behavior. I don't know how many times I've heard "ah, just let the kids wrestle, do it for the kids, it's all about letting them learn". Well this is what I suggest we tell the kids. "Kids, if life there are time commitments. If your boss says work starts at 10am, well you better be ready at 10am or you'll be jobless". Teach kids by example!

I would just love to see a Kentucky tournament, besides the KHSAA,  start on time and end on time. Just one!  This kind of stuff weakens Ky wrestling more so than anything else.

How many Kentucky teams go to Indiana and Ohio to wrestle on a weekly basis? Alot! How many Indiana and Ohio teams come into Kentucky and wrestle in our tournaments? I'm not sure, but I would suggest very very very very very very few. I wonder why?

Coaches, please start a tournament on time out of consideration of the fans, families and athletes. What time do you tell your wrestlers practice starts each day? What would you coaches do if your wrestlers always showed to practice one hour late everyday? What do you think fans do when they know wrestling never starts on time? I suspect many just don't come at all.

Oh yea, thanks for offering the tournament, I realize a tremendous amount of time, effort and dedication was required. Once the tournament started it ran very smoothly and nice. It did seem to be structurally organized throughout the day. Maybe next year it can start on time and it would be a perfect tournament. 

Uh, so who won?

Be patient! Wrestling just finished 45 mintues ago. Dang, you are very pushy and demanding.

Tates Creek 1st

Campbell Co. 2nd

McCreary Central 3rd

The reason the tournament started late was only 9 of the 20 teams sent out seeding information and those who didn't got upset about their kids seed so all 14 weight classes were redrawn. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way the tournament was run, it is up to the coaches to get their information in, in a timely manner or just let the kids get drawn in. In fact our team loves the TCI because everyone gets to wrestle. Yes, tournaments should start on time, but blaming the tournament organizer in this case is wrong. The livelihood of tournaments depend on getting teams in year after year and sometimes you have to acquiese to the demands of some coaches so that they return year after year.

NO! Acquiese no one if it means every single participate in the tournament has to suffer.

Johnny wrestles everyday and he loves the sport. Unfortunately, everytime Johnny wrestles he looks into a half nelson and gets pinned. But, don't tell Johnny to look the other way because you might upset him and he may not come out the next day. Afterall, we love seeing Johnny wrestle.

HEY JOHNNY, LOOK THE OTHER WAY KID! OH NO, JOHNNY IS CRYING. JOHNNY, SUCK IT UP KID, YOU'LL LIKE THE SPORT BETTER WHEN YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.  HOPE TO SEE YOU TOMORROW.

NO! Acquiese no one if it means every single participate in the tournament has to suffer.

Johnny wrestles everyday and he loves the sport. Unfortunately, everytime Johnny wrestles he looks into a half nelson and gets pinned. But, don't tell Johnny to look the other way because you might upset him and he may not come out the next day. Afterall, we love seeing Johnny wrestle.

HEY JOHNNY, LOOK THE OTHER WAY KID! OH NO, JOHNNY IS CRYING. JOHNNY, SUCK IT UP KID, YOU'LL LIKE THE SPORT BETTER WHEN YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.  HOPE TO SEE YOU TOMORROW.

i dont know who you are but you arent making any sense at all. and as far as the tournament goes. last year the tci was over and i cleaned up and was home for supper at 7. thats what happens when teams actually send in records, and attend to the coaches meetings. there are night before seeding meetings for exactly this reason.

Too many wrestlers per weight class for a 1 day tournament (16 max) . 215 had a 28 man bracket.

On a positive note, I was at the Fern Creek middle school tournament (Ranger jr stepping up this weekend) today and they did a very good job.  Not sure how many kids were there, but they added 45, 50, 55, 60, and 65 pounds to the middle school weights and most were nearly full 16 man brackets.  We started at 8:45 (scheduled for 9:00) and with a few breaks, face off, helping clean up and roll mats, and awards presentation we were on the bus headed home before 6:00.  It wasn't without issues (officials, a couple of kids with long waits), but for the size of the event it went very well.  Great competition as well.

Did ranger jr. get first then?

i dont know who you are but you arent making any sense at all. and as far as the tournament goes. last year the tci was over and i cleaned up and was home for supper at 7. thats what happens when teams actually send in records, and attend to the coaches meetings. there are night before seeding meetings for exactly this reason.

Hey tc125 I'm glad you got out last year at 7, this year you got out after midnight, no doubt. It amazes me that people actually try to defend yesterday's tournament. Wrestling is all about discipline. Kids have to train hard, diet, and make very PRECISE criteria. Weight descent plans are precise to the 100th of a pound, weighs in are to the 10th of a pound. The injury time is precise, 90 seconds. Most aspects about this sport are exact and precise. In Ohio and Indiana, the start times are exact and precise. In Ky, the start time variance is measured in "hours". There is always a reason, always an excuse. I'm just tired of all the excuses. I realize alot of time and effort are put into tournaments, blah, blah, blah. I go to tournaments in Ohio every week and I know if I arrive at 9:01am I just missed 1 minute of wrestling.

WHY WHY WHY can't Ky at least start on time. Ky is known for it's great basketball. I wonder if a high school basketball team starts ALL of their games 1-2 hours late everytime they play. I wonder what their attendance would be week after week?

People talk that we need to acquiesce the coaches, WHAT ABOUT THE FANS? Acquiese me, acquiesce the people who pay to attend, who pay to eat concessions, who cheer loudly and make for a spirited environment.

For those teams who didn't follow the rules, say GOOD BYE. Very simple. If they complain about getting kicked out then send them to an Ohio tournament, where they will get kicked out there as well. Quit allowing a few coaches to bring down the host of a tournament. It is Tates Creeks fault only because they tolerated insubordination from other coaches. Quit tolerating a few loser coaches who screw up what could have been an awesome tournament.

What has happened to Ryle over the years? I believe the only tournament Ryle attends in Kentucky in their very own tournament. They didn't even attend the NKAC! Why, because it's in Kentucky. They choose to go to an Ohio tournament rather than attend a mandatory Ky tournament. Coach Ruschell is a no BS coach. He doesn't put up with BS from his kids or Ky coaches who don't start on time.

People can attack me if they want and say I pick on Ky teams who are trying to make things better. But before you attack me, ask why are the elite Ky teams always leaving our state week after week? Where is Ryle week after week. They are in Ohio wrestling 5 matches and home by dinner. Coach Ruschell doesn't like to miss dinner, lol.

idatedurmom you are a complete whiner.  my son wrestled in a ryle summer tournament a few years back that didn't start on time.  it was 1 or 2 hours late.  so they are not perfect either.  the elite teams go out of state for better competition.  whether or not those tournaments are ran better is beside the point.  you are trying to use that to boost your argument against tournaments being ran poorly in this state and you sound ignorant.  i'm sure you already have a comeback for this because you sure do like to talk, but if you are so perfect could you please give us all detailed "precise & perfect" instructions on how to run a perfect tournament???  we all want to know.  if wrestling in this state is so beneath you and your perfect standards please do us all a favor and move to a more perfect state where you wont be bothered with the imperfections of this state.  we are all trying.  and you are just whinning and trying to tear people down.

we are all eagerly awaiting your perfect reply.

This has always been a problem at the TCI.  To many teams, allowing JV wrestlers in the tourney and making brackets larger than needed.  Seeding meeting on Thursday/Friday.  Then re-seeding on Saturday morning.

These are simple things to solve.  

1.  Seeding meeting before day of tourney and stick with it.  If a coach does not send in his seeds then they don't get seeded.  Even if a coach does not send in his wrestlers many times other coaches know the kid.  Example: if Woodford does not send in seed info.  Every coach knows that Courtney should be seeded 1st. Not rocket science.

2.  Limit the number of teams, 10-12 teams should be plenty. This allows for some overflow.  Teams without a full lineup.  Yes there may be a 16 man bracket or two but a whole lot less matches.

3.  Only allow JV wrestlers in the tourney if there is not a full 8 man bracket.  No exceptions.

4.  The one thing I like about the weigh ins in Ohio.  They set a time 8-9.  As soon as your team shows up you weigh in. No weight loss at the school.  If your team shows up at 8:59 you weigh in at that time. Weigh ins close at 9:00.  This allows teams to get there and plan for delays.  

5.  If you show up late your bus better have broken down or your team is out.

I ran Region 6 tourney 2 years ago by myself.  No assistant coach and only 2 sets of parents to help.  I hired a competent score keeper.  Held a seeding meeting day before.  all was set.  I was sitting in AppleBee's at by 9:00. After cleaning up and returning mats.  All this with only 6 wrestlers.

It can be done with little effort and a whole lot of planning.  The TCI has been held for over 10 years they should have it right by now.

Holmes was one of the teams that failed to send in any information and then wanted their kids seeded.

bulldog-leader it has not always been a problem.  maybe you weren't there or haven't read all the posts but it was done very early last year.  i agree with your recommendations and thank you for providing constructive criticism.  but lets get the facts straight.  

Holmes was one of the teams that failed to send in any information and then wanted their kids seeded.

and isn't bulldog-leader from holmes?  isn't that always the case that the ones who complain the most are the ones who either won't help fix things or CAUSE the problem themselves!!!

Holmes was one of the teams that failed to send in any information and then wanted their kids seeded.

the biggest team that messed things up the most was cambell county. their coach didnt even send a lineup. we didnt know if it was jv or varisity wrestling. and then they got their and wanted ALL their kids seeded.

well in that case i think idatedurmom should be bashing on their coaches as much as he is this tournament.  let's all get ready for a nice 2 page post from idatedurmom about how imperfect holmes and campbell county are.

Kick out Campbell county! Don't invite them back. I realize some people have the intellectual capacity to solve problems, some don't. I'm sorry beatintodeath, I now realize you are one those kind of people my parents told me never to make fun of because you can't help it. So, I'm sorry. You ran a great tournament yesterday. 

It's simple.  If the tournament is on Saturday then mandate that all teams wishing to wrestle must fax or e-mail rosters with seeding information no later than 6pm on Wednesday.  Tournament director enters and seeds all rosters into the wrestling program on Wednesday night.  Tournament director e-mails and faxes seeded brackets out on Thursday, coaches with seeding complaints can then e-mail or fax their arguments back on Thursday or Friday.  Tournament director can adjust the seeding as he sees fit Friday night and the brackets are then final.  The brackets are ready to go on Saturday morning.  The only changes in the brackets are scratches and forfeits(not making weight).  These are small changes and would not take much time to adjust.  If there are any coaches that don't follow the procedure then their team doesn't wrestle, no need to even show up.  It's not rocket science.  All it takes is a little discipline and organization.

It's simple.  If the tournament is on Saturday then mandate that all teams wishing to wrestle must fax or e-mail rosters with seeding information no later than 6pm on Wednesday.  Tournament director enters and seeds all rosters into the wrestling program on Wednesday night.  Tournament director e-mails and faxes seeded brackets out on Thursday, coaches with seeding complaints can then e-mail or fax their arguments back on Thursday or Friday.  Tournament director can adjust the seeding as he sees fit Friday night and the brackets are then final.  The brackets are ready to go on Saturday morning.  The only changes in the brackets are scratches and forfeits(not making weight).  These are small changes and would not take much time to adjust.  If there are any coaches that don't follow the procedure then their team doesn't wrestle, no need to even show up.  It's not rocket science.  All it takes is a little discipline and organization.

this procedure works when just a few teams dont follow the rules, but when more than half of the teams dont follow the rules, you cant just kick them all out, you would not have a tournament.

i think i remember having this exact same discussion last year... yep i found it, general wrestling page 7 4th from the bottom

this procedure works when just a few teams dont follow the rules, but when more than half of the teams dont follow the rules, you cant just kick them all out, you would not have a tournament.

I remember in high school there were some teachers you could get away with murder and they would say nothing. Others had zero tolerance. We never missed around with the zero tolerance teachers. Coaches and tournament directors need to adopt zero tolerance. Campbell county doesn't pull that garbage in Ohio. If they pull it in Ky it's because they are being lazy and making others suffer for their lack of preparation - they know they can get away with it. The coaches need to kick them out and any other school that doesn't follow the rules. I guarentee the coaches follow the rules when it comes to the KHSAA tournament.

When a school accepts the responsibility to offer a tournament they should know what they are getting themselves into. I never want to sit in a gym for 13 hours watching kids wrestle. 11 pm and kids still wrestling. Come on, who can possibly justify that. ( I'm not directing these negative comments to you "beatintodeath", you are great and wonderful, you ran a great tournament, please remain happy and positive)

Yeah and going back to the Coach's meeting only 5 or 6 of the coach's showed up the night before for the seeding meeting and not all teams sent rosters in which were due at noon the day before. And the coach's that showed were mostly the in city team's. So u can't blame the TC team for the inconvenience of the delayed tournament.

nor can you kick out 13 of the 20 teams competeing. might as well turn it into a dual.

Computers are internets were wonderful discoveries in the 90's. I suggest you give them a try.

I guarentee the coaches follow the rules when it comes to the KHSAA tournament.

i wouldn't be so sure of your self there smart guy.  i heard a story once of a coach not turning in his certification papers for his high school team at regionals.  this should have disqualified their kids from competing at regionals but they were the host school and got away with it.  when other coaches complained to the khsaa nothing was done.  the khsaa let it go.  i'm not saying that was right but they are not perfect like you either.

i don't disagree with you that the tournament could have been ran better.  but you came on here to smear this team, their coaches, their parents and you offered absolutely nothing constructive.  you just came on to whine.

idatedurmom you are a complete whiner.  my son wrestled in a ryle summer tournament a few years back that didn't start on time.  it was 1 or 2 hours late.  so they are not perfect either.  the elite teams go out of state for better competition.  whether or not those tournaments are ran better is beside the point.  you are trying to use that to boost your argument against tournaments being ran poorly in this state and you sound ignorant.  i'm sure you already have a comeback for this because you sure do like to talk, but if you are so perfect could you please give us all detailed "precise & perfect" instructions on how to run a perfect tournament???  we all want to know.  if wrestling in this state is so beneath you and your perfect standards please do us all a favor and move to a more perfect state where you wont be bothered with the imperfections of this state.  we are all trying.  and you are just whinning and trying to tear people down.

we are all eagerly awaiting your perfect reply.

I could not agree more

Computers are internets were wonderful discoveries in the 90's. I suggest you give them a try.

i suggest you just quit whining and quit attending tournaments you think are not going to run smoothly. if you love ohio so much then move there. at least tatest creek was gracious enough to invite 20 teams and let all their jvs wrestle. even if it did take 12 hours.

and isn't bulldog-leader from holmes?  isn't that always the case that the ones who complain the most are the ones who either won't help fix things or CAUSE the problem themselves!!!

Was from Holmes I repeat WAS.  I no longer coach at Holmes nor would I ever demand my kids get seeded.  I am one of those coaches that don't like my kids seeded until regions.  (One year I showed up Golsby was a 4th seed, had defeated the #2 seed. I sent my info in via e-mail with all his records attached. I told them to keep the seeds as is, Golsby went on to win the tourney) I did not want to delay the tourey because of a seed error.

So no I was not the problem.  Holmes now has a rookie coach, whom I have been trying to help out whenever I can.  My recomendation to you would have been to tell him his kids could not be seeded.  He only has one that maybe needed to be seeded anyway.

And by the way yes you are correct it has not always been a problem.  I may have slightly over-exagerated that.  Last year we got out early, but I beeive it was one of the few times in the 9 years that I attended that it did get over early. 

NO! Acquiese no one if it means every single participate in the tournament has to suffer.

Johnny wrestles everyday and he loves the sport. Unfortunately, everytime Johnny wrestles he looks into a half nelson and gets pinned. But, don't tell Johnny to look the other way because you might upset him and he may not come out the next day. Afterall, we love seeing Johnny wrestle.

HEY JOHNNY, LOOK THE OTHER WAY KID! OH NO, JOHNNY IS CRYING. JOHNNY, SUCK IT UP KID, YOU'LL LIKE THE SPORT BETTER WHEN YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.  HOPE TO SEE YOU TOMORROW.

Was from Holmes I repeat WAS.  I no longer coach at Holmes nor would I ever demand my kids get seeded.  I am one of those coaches that don't like my kids seeded until regions.  (One year I showed up Golsby was a 4th seed, had defeated the #2 seed. I sent my info in via e-mail with all his records attached. I told them to keep the seeds as is, Golsby went on to win the tourney) I did not want to delay the tourey because of a seed error.

So no I was not the problem.  Holmes now has a rookie coach, whom I have been trying to help out whenever I can.  My recomendation to you would have been to tell him his kids could not be seeded.  He only has one that maybe needed to be seeded anyway.

And by the way yes you are correct it has not always been a problem.  I may have slightly over-exagerated that.  Last year we got out early, but I beeive it was one of the few times in the 9 years that I attended that it did get over early. 

I am glad to get all the suggestions for improvement for the TCI. We at Tates Creek understand the problems with bracket tournaments.  For this reason we compete mainly in duals for the first part of the year.  In December we had a 10 team dual at Tates Creek.  We started wrestling at 9 and finished at about 3.  We believe that it is important to compete in bracket tournaments to prepare for the tournaments at the end of the year.  For our bracket tournament it would seem common sense that 20 teams competing would take longer than 10 (especially when they bring many JV's to wrestle. The year before we only had 13 teams and many of them did not have full lineups.  We are sorry if we ran a little longer than the year before.

Some of the facts are wrong.  We started wrestling at 11 (an hour late).  Once we started, we took only 2 breaks.  At 2 we took a 20 minute break, and at 7:30 we took a 15 minute break before the finals.  The rest of the time we ran 5 mats continually.  Most of the weight classes had a 32 man bracket.  We did in one day what the state tournament takes 3 days to do.  We finished at about 9:30 (3 hours later than the previous year).  For the finals we ran 4 mats.

Some of the things that we will try and improve on next season:

1. Be proactive in trying to get coaches to send their lineups in the day before.  We are not going to kick anyone out of the tournament for not doing this however.

2.  We will continue to do the tournament by hand.  We believe that computors slow up, rather than speed up tournaments.  One of the biggest problems is having to wait between rounds for bout sheets to be printed off.  We went from one round to another without waiting for bout sheets.

3. We will continue to allow JV's to wrestle.  This is one of the things that many of the coaches like about the TCI.  All of their wrestlers can wrestle.

4.  If people want to know when we will be done, we can tell them sometime between 6:30 and 9:30.  We hope that it is closer to 6:30 than 9:30.

If anyone cannot accept these conditions, they should not attend the TCI.  Go somewhere else, and we wish you good luck.

  We finished at about 9:30 (3 hours later than the previous year).  For the finals we ran 4 mats.

lol not putting you down or trying to correct u or anything but my last match was over at 10:40 then all the awards took place so it was a lil later then 9:30. lol but its all good i felt like it acctually went by smooth.

Did ranger jr. get first then?

No, not even close.  I was happy overall with the way he wrestled though.  2-2 for his first live action on the mat this year.  Pretty good competition there.

Who are u talking about?

2.  We will continue to do the tournament by hand.  We believe that computors slow up, rather than speed up tournaments.  One of the biggest problems is having to wait between rounds for bout sheets to be printed off.  We went from one round to another without waiting for bout sheets.

You don't actually have to wait between rounds for bout sheets to be printed.  As matches are completed at the lower weight classes, results can be entered in and you can start printing bout sheets for the lower weights in the next round while the current round is still wrestling.  I've done this and it's no problem at all.  Then, to speed things up more, use a bout board instead of someone announcing each match to each mat 3 times over. (In the hole, On deck, Now wrestling)

If you are using The Wrestling Tourney software, hand write the bout sheets. It is faster than a printer. I am writing bout sheets for the lower weights while still seeding the upper weights. As soon as you have a bracket filled, you can start writing the bout sheets. As soon as you know you have pigtail, wite the bout sheet and let them wrestle first. The problem I have the most is with the 45 minute rule. The computer will annotates it in red until the 45 minute rule is up. Of course, it only knows 45 minutes from the time you entered the result. People are tolerate waiting for the 45 minute rule. However, it is important to start on time. Weighing in by teams and using their weigh-in sheets also speeds the data entry unless you have someone documenting on a separate clipboard as they weigh-in by class. Again, this allows you to be setting up the tournament while weigh-ins are still in progress.

you can also pre-print blank bout sheets and configure this software to use the pre-printed bout sheets. 

i dont know who you are but you arent making any sense at all. and as far as the tournament goes. last year the tci was over and i cleaned up and was home for supper at 7. thats what happens when teams actually send in records, and attend to the coaches meetings. there are night before seeding meetings for exactly this reason.

your right kasey it would have been alot sooner if some coaches actually showed up to the seeding meeting the night before, dont blame our tournament all the in city school coaches were there, and had rosters ready, this tournament werent unprofessional but some coaches needed to be there on time. end of story.

you probably should have quit while you were ahead on this thread.  do you honestly expect teams from out of the area (let's say 1 hour +) to show up to a seeding meeting the night before?  if that's what ruined your event, then it's your fault for poor planning.  do the math on this one.  all the "in city school" coaches were there....but no one else.  that's pretty much what i would expect.  and i'd expect it next year if you do the same thing.  your coaches should have asked for seeding info through email or called the out of area coaches.

you probably should have quit while you were ahead on this thread.  do you honestly expect teams from out of the area (let's say 1 hour +) to show up to a seeding meeting the night before?  if that's what ruined your event, then it's your fault for poor planning.  do the math on this one.  all the "in city school" coaches were there....but no one else.  that's pretty much what i would expect.  and i'd expect it next year if you do the same thing.  your coaches should have asked for seeding info through email or called the out of area coaches.

but all the out of city teams were supposed to send rosters a couple days before, that would had helped seeding too.

Using an online service helps... you send in your seed nominations listing key criteria.  The program uses that criteria to determine seeds.  The coaches could review remotely a day or two prior to the tourney and make their case for changes all prior to the tourney... final adjustments made at the coaches meeting after weigh ins... but ony in the cases of wrestlers that don't show or don't make weight, etc.  This, ofcourse, still relies on the coaches sending in their roster and seed info but I would suggest you make it clear that if they don't follow the guidelines their wrestlers may not be seeded... and stick to it.  Let's face it... we can always make improvements... but running any tournament is stressful, difficult, and very time consuming.  If you haven't done it it is easy to arm chair quarterback...