is it just me, or does it seem like the dragon year after year has some of the worst officiating there is? this is wierd to me, since it seem like most of the refs at this tournament, normally officiate state. most of the refs seemer...bored to say the least. a lot of them werent dropping to their stomaches to look for pins, a lot of them missed many takedown calls as well. they seemed rather biased towards the louisville teams as well. anyone have anything to support me or disprove me?

i with u on this one. some wouldnt even count back points. not only was the officiating bad in my eyes the attitudes were just as worse. some of the refs acted like they just wanted to get out of there as soon as possible

yeah thats another subject i didnt even touch on were the attitudes of many of the refs...

The biggest issue we noticed was the taller ref.  He was inconsistant, tentative and unsure of his calls.  We found out later that this is his first year and were shocked to find out he was a first year official.  What's the story on him?

im not sure exactly which one you are talking about. but i watched many refs give points, and then take them away due to confusion or some other unknown factor. i saw more points taken away from wrestlers for takedowns, than i have ever seen. are refs even aloud to give points, and then take them away like that? seems unfair if that is the case.

Well, I actually commented to a couple of people that I thought the officiating was better than I had seen the rest of this year. Stalling was called pretty consistently, which is something that is often never called or called too much. And Cattan, who in the past would never award a point for potentially dangerous moves, did call that a time or two. They sometimes called out of bounds really quickly, but the rings were practically on top of each other, so I don't think they had much choice.

The time-keeping and scoring was terrible at times, but that wasn't the refs' fault. I've never seen so many instances of forgetting to start the clock, letting the clock run when it should have been stopped, or not even notifying the ref that time was out. One time Cattan slapped the mat and then continued the match because he found out time had run out 10 seconds before.

yes stalling was called much more than usual, which is good, but other than that, i feel the rest of the officiating was lacking. many of the refs seemed very inconsistant with calls against the louisville teams. i saw many positions where takedowns or escapes were awarded to wrestlers from the louisville area, and then even huge teams like woodford county being in the same position, but not getting the points. i also saw many quick pins and not so quick pins if it happened to be a louisville kid on their back.

Well, I actually commented to a couple of people that I thought the officiating was better than I had seen the rest of this year. Stalling was called pretty consistently, which is something that is often never called or called too much. And Cattan, who in the past would never award a point for potentially dangerous moves, did call that a time or two. They sometimes called out of bounds really quickly, but the rings were practically on top of each other, so I don't think they had much choice.

The time-keeping and scoring was terrible at times, but that wasn't the refs' fault. I've never seen so many instances of forgetting to start the clock, letting the clock run when it should have been stopped, or not even notifying the ref that time was out. One time Cattan slapped the mat and then continued the match because he found out time had run out 10 seconds before.

I don't know about the reffing as I was not there.  However, no points are to be awarded for a potientially dangerous move unless the count on nearfall has already called for points and the move changed so that it became potentially dangerous.  One point is awarded for illegal holds, and I have watched Cattan award 1 point for an illegal scissors on the head twice in the same match when in fact the wrestler actually had a leg cradle on his opponent (actually Cattan stopped that match 3 times for the same thing awarding 2 points and then realized after stopping it the third time that the coach in the corner was correct in saying it was a leg cradle, not a scissor). 

I don't know about the reffing as I was not there.  However, no points are to be awarded for a potientially dangerous move unless the count on nearfall has already called for points and the move changed so that it became potentially dangerous.  One point is awarded for illegal holds, and I have watched Cattan award 1 point for an illegal scissors on the head twice in the same match when in fact the wrestler actually had a leg cradle on his opponent (actually Cattan stopped that match 3 times for the same thing awarding 2 points and then realized after stopping it the third time that the coach in the corner was correct in saying it was a leg cradle, not a scissor). 

I may have misspoken, Dinubus, as you certainly know more than I do. When boys have been slammed to the point that they were injured, even received a concussion, some refs at least award a point, if not end the match. In the past Cattan wouldn't do that, but I've noticed he is doing it now. That's not to say he makes good calls in general. I happen to think he's one of the worst, not just because of his lack of knowledge, as you point out here, but also because he has this snide attitude and is inconsistent, sometimes awarding a takedown when the wrestlers are almost entirely out of the ring, other times refusing to award the takedown when they're barely out. As I understand the rules, if the legs of the wrestler performing the takedown are in the ring, it's a takedown, even if the opponent is out of the ring.

you are absolutely right i wrestled there and saw many stupid calls made including one ref awarding points for "forcing opponent out of the ring" isnt it the other guys job to circle? I also saw many times where wrestlers got takedowns standups reversals etc.. but didn't get any points for them whats up with that??

Hey Whiners, take the test and get your stripes.  Earn your keep while the rest of us ride you for 12 straight hours.  They were slipping toward the end of the day but that should be expected after that long.  They are tired and yes they made some bad calls but they made plenty of correct calls as well. If you are expecting 100% accuracy your nuts.

I have no idea what tc125 is crying about, Lexington officials are some of the worst, actually they are.  Sometime you either grit your teeth and bare it, become an official or make sure you keep the official from deciding a match.

Consistency or lack there of could be the only arguement.  

you are absolutely right i wrestled there and saw many stupid calls made including one ref awarding points for "forcing opponent out of the ring" isnt it the other guys job to circle? I also saw many times where wrestlers got takedowns standups reversals etc.. but didn't get any points for them whats up with that??

That's a legit call. It's both wrestlers job to circle. If it's obvious that Wrestler A is forcing Wrestler B out of the ring to avoid Wrestler B scoring points, then Wrestler B is awarded a point for the push out.

Hey Whiners, take the test and get your stripes.  Earn your keep while the rest of us ride you for 12 straight hours.  They were slipping toward the end of the day but that should be expected after that long.  They are tired and yes they made some bad calls but they made plenty of correct calls as well. If you are expecting 100% accuracy your nuts.

I have no idea what tc125 is crying about, Lexington officials are some of the worst, actually they are.  Sometime you either grit your teeth and bare it, become an official or make sure you keep the official from deciding a match.

Consistency or lack there of could be the only arguement.  

Grapple- you make a good point, and I will say again -- the tables had some issues. Once there were four people sitting at a table, so they were having a party while they forgot to run the clock, or ran it when play was stopped. One match was held up for a good 3 minutes while the refs, coaches, and scorers' table tried to figure out what the score was supposed to be. And, as I said, a pin was called and then retracted because it turned out the clock had run out 10 seconds before. Another time, the ref just said, look, I don't know what the time was supposed to be, but the period is over.

That's a legit call. It's both wrestlers job to circle. If it's obvious that Wrestler A is forcing Wrestler B out of the ring to avoid Wrestler B scoring points, then Wrestler B is awarded a point for the push out.

but is it "pushing" if you are going for a takedown?

You know, we ask officials to go out and make judegement calls.  There are guidelines and rules to follow but they have to use their judgement.  Some calls could go either way-and there will always be folks that disagree.  Personally, I wasn't too disappointed in the officiating.  And as far as the table workers go........it is a long day for them.  They volunteer their time.  My hats off to them for their efforts. 

ill say it didnt seem too bad there were very few bad calls that i saw but it just so happened that they were all in one or two matches which ultimately decided those matches.

forcing out of bounds is a good call if a kid is trying to stand up and you push him out that entitles him to a point so dont push em out. now if you shoot them out or run them out it is their fault and if it continues to happen then that person that is fleeing the mat should either be hit with fleeing the mat or stalling

the refs knew they were gonna be there all day the dragon takes forever they rushed finals this year they didn't start till almost close to 9 it was the longest tournament i've sat at in a day besides state honestly some of them got kind of lazy but you can't expect them to be perfect all the time you'd rather them be inconsistent there than at state but i agree officiating could have been a lot better kasey i saw your match against the southern kid the first time

The refs were bad I mean got some horrible calls. they must have just hated tc haha

the refs knew they were gonna be there all day the dragon takes forever they rushed finals this year they didn't start till almost close to 9 it was the longest tournament i've sat at in a day besides state honestly some of them got kind of lazy but you can't expect them to be perfect all the time you'd rather them be inconsistent there than at state but i agree officiating could have been a lot better kasey i saw your match against the southern kid the first time

please dont even get me started on that match, or the second match i had with him...it makes me sick to say the least...

2 losses to the same kid in the same tournament, one by fall.  Doesn't sound like officiating problems to me. Think long and hard before the finger points.

Hedges only lost once to the Southern kid.

But officitiating was not that bad. Several mishaps with the scorekeepers and clock workers occured but I didn't see any majorly blown calls. I liked that they rushed the finals right on thru. Face-offs and one mat is overdone. Just do that for regions and state only.

Unless they are wrong in the bracket, he was stuck in the quarters, and lost by Dec for 5th and 6th. Or maybe I misread the quote below.

please dont even get me started on that match, or the second match i had with him...it makes me sick to say the least...

Damn, I saw hedges pinning the Southern kid in the consos and assumed he won. Perhaps he did lose twice to a kid he had no business losing to once.

It must have been a close contest for the worst referees on Saturday.  I won't say all the ref's at the Trojan were bad but one was awful.  The Asian Ref actually called a pin in the 130 finals after the clock had run out.  The Harrison Co. kid was being pinned and he was out of bounds to boot!

It must have been a close contest for the worst referees on Saturday.  I won't say all the ref's at the Trojan were bad but one was awful.  The Asian Ref actually called a pin in the 130 finals after the clock had run out.  The Harrison Co. kid was being pinned and he was out of bounds to boot!

Let me re-phrase something - the Harrison Co. kid wasn't being pinned he was being tilted and the pin was called all while he was out of bounds.

Damn, I saw hedges pinning the Southern kid in the consos and assumed he won. Perhaps he did lose twice to a kid he had no business losing to once.

yeah, i was pinning him, and that was the second time he was on his back. the first time i didnt get a takedoen, or back points for it. but then i went into the third up two, instead of up by 7 like i should have been. got a cradle slapped on rolled back for momentum to get out, then got called for a quick pin. went on to beat the kid for fifth and sixth, but wrestled terrible, and had to fight the refs once again for the win. oh well, state is where it matters, and at state, i wont be going to my back. that way i wont have to worry about a quick pin.