I spoke with a few of my colleagues and was informed that due to the state elem. tourney being held at Fern this year that Johnson Central would not be going this year. Then I was told that they were going to bring 50 some wrestlers to Perry for regions but only a solid 10 would make the trip to sates this year. I questioned then why so many at region, I was answered with this disturbing tid bit...... That they just wanted a team region title to take home. Which they did but in the wrong way! Instead of each team choosing a single scorer for each age and weight.But the impossible host of the tourney did not follow this format they scored each kid. But on the up side my son who wrestles this region had 4 matches all with JC wrestle and came out victorious with his hand being raised each time. I may speak for my self but I hope some JC persons read and comment on this post and that with this being brought out that the JC personnel make sure that the kids they used to win the region tittle get to make the awesome trip to state. Please don't take offence to this post , its just that eachkid deserves there chance in the spot light. Not used as a crutch!!!!!!
Winning
Topic ID: 5141 | 56 Posts
Interesting....Last Year they wanted a state title and created a "County Team" to win state.
"nteresting....Last Year they wanted a state title and created a "County Team" to win state."
You need to check you facts about JC Elementary Wrestling Program. The JC Elementary Wrestling Program
has been a "County Team" every year since we started it back in 04 with about 5 kids.
Winning the "Elementary State Wrestling tournament" has been a simple formula for all the champions,have the most kids in the tournament and be the host.
yea the had as much kids as Ryle and Conner put together. Almost looks like Ryle, twenfhel, and Cooper combined teams. Any info on this.
Interesting..........A Boone County Team???
Sorry to offend JCB usually when you see a team wearing singlets from different schools...it means they combined with other teams....
Winning the "Elementary State Wrestling tournament" has been a simple formula for all the champions,have the most kids in the tournament and be the host.
yea the had as much kids as Ryle and Conner put together. Almost looks like Ryle, twenfhel, and Cooper combined teams. Any info on this.
That has not happened-ever. I am not saying that it hasn't happened in other regions, but not in Boone County or Kenton County.
Actually do not say never........A Kenton County team combined with another a few yrs back.
....there are clubs in Region 3 that have kids on one team that compete at least for 3 different middle schools .........not much different.
Actually do not say never........A Kenton County team combined with another a few yrs back.
....there are clubs in Region 3 that have kids on one team that compete at least for 3 different middle schools .........not much different.
Question. Were they on a legitimate youth team that competes in Cincinnati on a weekly basis? Raiders youth has had kids on their team for several years, but the kids may go to different middle schools. They have been on that team for years and continue to train and compete with Raiders youth. Lets give fair balance.
I spoke with a few of my colleagues and was informed that due to the state elem. tourney being held at Fern this year that Johnson Central would not be going this year. Then I was told that they were going to bring 50 some wrestlers to Perry for regions but only a solid 10 would make the trip to sates this year. I questioned then why so many at region, I was answered with this disturbing tid bit...... That they just wanted a team region title to take home. Which they did but in the wrong way! Instead of each team choosing a single scorer for each age and weight.But the impossible host of the tourney did not follow this format they scored each kid. But on the up side my son who wrestles this region had 4 matches all with JC wrestle and came out victorious with his hand being raised each time. I may speak for my self but I hope some JC persons read and comment on this post and that with this being brought out that the JC personnel make sure that the kids they used to win the region tittle get to make the awesome trip to state. Please don't take offence to this post , its just that eachkid deserves there chance in the spot light. Not used as a crutch!!!!!!
I certainly hope this isn't the case. We want kids wrestling in Regions and State. We setup the region format to give the kids more matches, NOT for bragging rights.
Keeping team scores on the Region level is the host teams option. Some did, some didn't.
.......yes they both compete at CYW...
I understand the fair balance.....if they wrestle with that club all year I have no issues with it.
If they combine at state time then NO I can not understand.
Question. Were they on a legitimate youth team that competes in Cincinnati on a weekly basis? Raiders youth has had kids on their team for several years, but the kids may go to different middle schools. They have been on that team for years and continue to train and compete with Raiders youth. Lets give fair balance.
grapplearms is correct. New kids coming to our team, with programs in their district, are instructed to join those teams but are not required to do so. I know Conner has the same policy of asking kids to join where they will attend middle school. Our veteran kids are allowed to stay on our team regardless if a new team starts up in their district.
Raiders Youth is a CLUB team. Campbell County is the only NKY team I'm aware of that is a true school team. All the Louisville teams are club teams. That's why you see kids jumping teams.
Actually do not say never........A Kenton County team combined with another a few yrs back.
....there are clubs in Region 3 that have kids on one team that compete at least for 3 different middle schools .........not much different.
Paris,
A few years back would make it the 2nd year of having that tournament. The rules or association were not even in place. There was no conspiracy or malice intended, It was a last minute decision before the tournament. We never hid the fact that we did it. I will apologize for the last time for hurting anyones feelings. Our team combined with another team at the state tournament because we each had about 5 or 6 kids. We did it to bring the kids together as a larger team. We did not bring home a team trophy. Please do not try to tarnish our integrity or purpose. I find that personally offensive. Facts are very important to have before smearing programs or people with good intentions. If our state is going to chose to go in this direction maybe we should vote on teams worthy of joining the association. With all of this brotherly love going on we may have 2 or three teams holy enough to be worthy.
.......yes they both compete at CYW...
I understand the fair balance.....if they wrestle with that club all year I have no issues with it.
If they combine at state time then NO I can not understand.
CYW and Kentucky are two completely different entities. There is nothing in the Kentucky Bylaws about CYW season. Kentucky season for us, starts at the Kentucky Regional Tournament. There is no real season for us in Kentucky.
I did not imply any type of"tarnishing" I simple corrected a post.
I did state a fact.
Justify it anyway you like.... I do not agree with it ...rules or no rules intergity is the bottom line issue of what we are debating here now.
paris
"Sorry to offend JCB usually when you see a team wearing singlets from different schools...it means they combined with other teams...."
That may be true in Louisville or Norhtern Kentucky however, in regards to Johnson Centeral Elementary Program, it means we have not had the resousrces to order team singlets. The kids you saw with singlets at state in 07. 08 or in 09, were purchased individually by thier parents probably from e-bay or Eastbay. Thus, you get many different styles and corlors.
grapplearms
"That is not true. Ryle has won twice and been the runner up twice. They have NEVER hosted the tournament."
I am not sure but I think if you check Ryle was to be the host of th 07 Elementary State Tournment but something happen that they could not get the gym and the physical location had to be moved to Conner but the tournment was ran by Ryle.
I could be wrong but I believe :
Larue was host and won in 05( Numbers were less of a factor in this elementary state due to there were only 3 different divisions which were broken down by grades.)McCreary was host and won in 06
Ryle was host / directed and won in 07
JC was host and won in 08
matmonster
"I spoke with a few of my colleagues and was informed that due to the state elem. tourney being held at Fern this year that Johnson Central would not be going this year. Then I was told that they were going to bring 50 some wrestlers to Perry for regions but only a solid 10 would make the trip to sate this year. I questioned then why so many at region, I was answered with this disturbing tid bit...... That they just wanted a team region title to take home. Which they did but in the wrong way! Instead of each team choosing a single scorer for each age and weight.But the impossible host of the tourney did not follow this format they scored each kid. But on the up side my son who wrestles this region had 4 matches all with JC wrestle and came out victorious with his hand being raised each time. I may speak for my self but I hope some JC persons read and comment on this post and that with this being brought out that the JC personnel make sure that the kids they used to win the region tittle get to make the awesome trip to state. Please don't take offence to this post , its just that eachkid deserves there chance in the spot light. Not used as a crutch!!!!!! "
matmonster
"Please don't take offense to this post , its just that each kid deserves their chance in the spot light. Not used as a crutch!!!!!! "
Not sure what else you could have meant by implying using kids as a "crutch" could be taken other than jealousy or resentment.
But to answer your question as to why JC had 50 go to region and probably will only have between 5 to 15 go to state, are wrestling experiences and economic's. Most of the kids which went to region were kids under the age of 10 with less then a month of experience in wrestling. Due to the weather this year, I believe we have only had 6 elementary pactrices before region. Second, the cost going to Perry County was minimal. The trip to state is much more expensive. It will require staying overnigt and is about 200 miles away.
You can go back and check but I have been involved from the begining with Johnson County Wrestling and believe the most we have ever had go to the elementary state wrestling tournament(other than 08 when we were the host) has been less then 10 with and average of more like 5.
Matmonster's post makes absolutely no sense. If Johnson Central had not brought their elementary team, the region would have been a joke. The total number combined in the region would have been less than 25. Instead of other teams being jealous, they need to get to work. J.C. and coach Matney have no secret formula. It's simply hard work. Did you see the dozen or so volunteer coaches who give up their time and money for the Central program? This is what makes J. C. successful. As for loading up a team, Johnson Central does exactly what everyone else does. They use only the feeder schools that go into their high school; which by the way is fairly small (about 1000 students at the h.s.). As for going to state, I do not know how many will go because of a couple of reasons. #1 We missed 20 days of school and since our youth league does not start till January most of our kids have only practiced 4 or 5 days. Our youth league has already paid big dividends and we do not plan on changing our format. #2 financially a trip to Louisville for some of our kids may not be possible.
Matmonster's post makes absolutely no sense. If Johnson Central had not brought their elementary team, the region would have been a joke. The total number combined in the region would have been less than 25. Instead of other teams being jealous, they need to get to work. J.C. and coach Matney have no secret formula. It's simply hard work. Did you see the dozen or so volunteer coaches who give up their time and money for the Central program? This is what makes J. C. successful. As for loading up a team, Johnson Central does exactly what everyone else does. They use only the feeder schools that go into their high school; which by the way is fairly small (about 1000 students at the h.s.). As for going to state, I do not know how many will go because of a couple of reasons. #1 We missed 20 days of school and since our youth league does not start till January most of our kids have only practiced 4 or 5 days. Our youth league has already paid big dividends and we do not plan on changing our format. #2 financially a trip to Louisville for some of our kids may not be possible
Just to let you know...I agree w/ matmonster!! Regionals were nothing if not a crock! Trust me our team definitely need not take lessons from JC! Nothing against the kids...just the ethics of the officials..or should I say lack there of? Our little Martin Co. team managed to hold their own just fine...As a matter of fact...my son wrestled ALL his matches against JC and WON them all! I'm sure there's not any jealousy toward JC...it's only distaste for the way in which they handle theirselves. I am at every single practice and I can state for a fact there's no amount of hardwork that JC or anyone else for that matter that we don't match if not beat...Who's problem is it that wrestling didn't start in time for JC to be ready? Sounds like an excuse to me..hmm? The only people it hurts are the kids that give their all but yet can't get anyone dedicated enough to help them practice and prepare in ample time to accomplish what needs to be done.
I don't want to seem like I have a problem w/ the kids...it's not that at all. But I will not sit with my mouth shut...when I too have a son and nephews that wrestle and deserve to be treated with dignity. Yeah it's fun to win a team trophy but what for? B/c you out number everyone? What's that about? Go by a trophy and tell the kids you're sorry but regionals is REQUIRED for the ones going to state!Better yet send em our way and we'll make sure that if they go through the trouble of practice and regionals we'll make sure they get to wrestle in a much deserved spot for state.
paris
grapplearms
"That is not true. Ryle has won twice and been the runner up twice. They have NEVER hosted the tournament."
I am not sure but I think if you check Ryle was to be the host of th 07 Elementary State Tournment but something happen that they could not get the gym and the physical location had to be moved to Conner but the tournment was ran by Ryle.
I could be wrong but I believe :
Larue was host and won in 05( Numbers were less of a factor in this elementary state due to there were only 3 different divisions which were broken down by grades.)McCreary was host and won in 06
Ryle was host / directed and won in 07
JC was host and won in 08
Ryle won it in 2005, was runner up in 2006, won in 2007 and was runner-up last year.
These are elementary age kids, right?
Did they have fun? Did they learn anything?
Then, it is all good.
I may have read to much in between the lines, but was jcb hinting the host teams fix things so they can win. If so they should never be allowed to host another event period. This is for kids and the kids only grown ups egos should checked at the door.
heavy83
Junior Varsity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may have read to much in between the lines, but was jcb hinting the host teams fix things so they can win. If so they should never be allowed to host another event period. This is for kids and the kids only grown ups egos should checked at the door.
I'm not sure if you are using marijuana for medicinal proposes or not however, yes you do have a very creative imagination heavy83. There was nothing being said between the line. Just that at this time the team with the most wrestlers are in the strongest position to win the state. It a numbers game nothing more nothing less. A team has a chance to score in about 48 weight class. In addition several weight class will have less then 4 wrestlers which means a team can score without winning a match. Also, if you are the host you a increase number of kids wrestling in the tournament.
heavy83
Junior Varsity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may have read to much in between the lines, but was jcb hinting the host teams fix things so they can win. If so they should never be allowed to host another event period. This is for kids and the kids only grown ups egos should checked at the door.
I'm not sure if you are using marijuana for medicinal proposes or not however, yes you do have a very creative imagination heavy83. There was nothing being said between the line. Just that at this time the team with the most wrestlers are in the strongest position to win the state. It a numbers game nothing more nothing less. A team has a chance to score in about 48 weight class. In addition several weight class will have less then 4 wrestlers which means a team can score without winning a match. Also, if you are the host you a increase number of kids wrestling in the tournament.
Your post is very disrespectful. You could have attempted to portray your opinion more accurately without being rude. Quite frankly, I read your post the same way the heavy83 did. And for the record I don't smoke marijuana for medicinal or recreational purposes. I have seen teams win by wrestling hard....yes, the numbers help but if they show up in mass and lose on the mat it doesn't help. You still need to win the matches. Why can't we just congratulate the kids that wrestle hard and move on?
Again, matmonster I have no clue what so ever about why you are mad at Johnson Central. I happen to know you have had even less practice time than we have had. If you feel you should take any or all of your kids to state then please do so, but please do not be upset at any decision our parents make. Our parents may not feel it is the best course of action for their child to wrestle against kids from other parts of Ky.who have had many more matches.Coach Matney told each one of us the youth league should be less about competition and more about fun and an introduction to wrestling. We had absolutely zero to do with running the region but we strongly support the Corey family who did. Other than the lack of teams we found no fault from the tournament . First years are always tough for tournaments.
wrestlewatcher
All-State
Your post is very disrespectful. You could have attempted to portray your opinion more accurately without being rude. Quite frankly, I read your post the same way the heavy83 did. And for the record I don't smoke marijuana for medicinal or recreational purposes. I have seen teams win by wrestling hard....yes, the numbers help but if they show up in mass and lose on the mat it doesn't help. You still need to win the matches. Why can't we just congratulate the kids that wrestle hard and move on?
You talk of respect / disrespect, however, you and heavy83 have no problem creating a conspiracy theory which makes the host teams "cheat" from a simple true fact that numbers make the difference at this time in the elementary tournament ( by hosting the tournament you will increase your number of participants thus, increasing your chances of winning). The numbers issue is a well known problem and has been discussed at several of the elementary meetings.
NO you do not have to win matches to score points in the elementary tournament at this time. If you look back you will see several of the weight classes only had 1,2 or 3 wrestlers in their bracket thus each wrestler would score no matter if he /she won or not.
However, you are correct I should not have made the marijuana comment to heavy83. I was only being sarcastic in response to being called a cheat and should have not went to that level.
wrestlewatcher
All-State
You talk of respect / disrespect, however, you and heavy83 have no problem creating a conspiracy theory which makes the host teams "cheat" from a simple true fact that numbers make the difference at this time in the elementary tournament ( by hosting the tournament you will increase your number of participants thus, increasing your chances of winning). The numbers issue is a well known problem and has been discussed at several of the elementary meetings.
I created nothing. I simply stated how I understood your post and gave you the opportunity to correct the misunderstanding. I have been to the meetings (every single one of them) and the answer to the problem is to get more kids to go to the tournament....right??? The hosting team has not always won the tournament. It helps, but it ain't the silver bullet.
I created nothing. I simply stated how I understood your post and gave you the opportunity to correct the misunderstanding. I have been to the meetings (every single one of them) and the answer to the problem is to get more kids to go to the tournament....right??? The hosting team has not always won the tournament. It helps, but it ain't the silver bullet.
Currently you can not with the elementary state tournament without numbers. It was pointed out that Ryle won it in 2005, was runner up in 2006, won in 2007 and was runner-up last year by grapplearms. Even though Ryle was not a host team. However, Ryle did have the numbers. If you look back I believe you will see Ryle's numbers was toward the top in each tournament. This is a compliment to the strength of the Ryle program.
You say the answer is to have more kids in the tournament. I do not agree. I would not have a team winner. Currently they are no fair way to score the team part due to the large number of brackets.
My first post was extremely simple. Numbers make a difference.
BTW, jcb for the record I do not smoke anything nice joke though. I was only pointing that your formula that you need to host to win. In statement numbers mean everything is only partially true, the kids have to wrestle to get points. In state tournament there will alot less 4or less brackets. In regionals there are quite a bit more, less number of teams. If I understand how the scoring should be if a wrestler does not have anybody in his class he gets the medal team does not get points. Meaning he has to wrestle to score points for team. The only part of your formula that is mostly true is numbers.
i have a question. Why not just divide a teams points by the number of elligible wrestlers. In my small brain it seems like this would elliminate the advantages the larger teams have.
It won't work. If you send two wrestlers and they both win first then they win? Uh no.
I wrestled in the early 90's for a really good Harrison County team and we didn't even have an elementary program...I am very fortunate now to have 2 boys of my own who love to wrestle...they are 5 and 10 and do it because they love to wrestle...but the more I read on here the more I want to stay home Saturday because its not about the kids anymore...that was one of the great things about wrestling...it was about the individual, how hard they worked and what they put into...unfortunately it sounds like wrestling is turning in to all the other sports...THE PARENTS TRYING TO TAKE OVER...maybe it should just be about the kids again!!!
I wrestled in the early 90's for a really good Harrison County team and we didn't even have an elementary program...I am very fortunate now to have 2 boys of my own who love to wrestle...they are 5 and 10 and do it because they love to wrestle...but the more I read on here the more I want to stay home Saturday because its not about the kids anymore...that was one of the great things about wrestling...it was about the individual, how hard they worked and what they put into...unfortunately it sounds like wrestling is turning in to all the other sports...THE PARENTS TRYING TO TAKE OVER...maybe it should just be about the kids again!!!
In my opinion, it is always about the kids. I could care less about the team trophy, but believe it or not, my son not only cares about his performance but he also cares about his teammates too. He is lucky to be on a team that has a chance each and every year. Since wrestling has always been more about the individual, having a chance to be part of a
I just don't understand the big deal about this team or that or whatever...not every kid has the opportunity to wrestle for an elementary team that has a shot at a "team title"...the way I see it, get them in the best program possible within your district or region and teach them to be good sports and have fun and the winning will come with the territory...I heard parents at our region griping about this kid shouldn't be in this bracket or this kid should be in another age group because they had more experience and they had never seen the kid wrestle...let the kids settle it on the mat...rankings and predictions mean nothing when your 7, 8, 9, 10 years old...See ya at state
Just to set the record straight, winning the Elementary Championship is not about the numbers.
2008 State at JC, Ryle only brought 27 kids. JC brought a reported 105. JC beat Ryle by about 20 points.
Ryle has a QUALITY program that competes with the best from Ohio every weekend. JCB is wrong, it is not about numbers. It's about the number of kids that can beat the rest, not just fill weight classes.
I don't understand why everyone wants to argue on this site. Isn't this all about the wrestlers? Not the opinions of the parents. I have a son who wrestles, and to be honest yes I love to see him win, but if he doesn't win I don't go off bad mouthing other wrestlers or parents. Any wrestler can have a bad day. I have seen my son pin boys in the heavy weight group and the 185 group but I have also seen him get pinned by wrestlers who were smaller and less experienced than him. Shouldn't we be on here to support our wrestlers and encourage them? I would love to see my son win his division in state, but if he doesn't then we just encourage him to work harder and be a good sport no matter where he places. Remember we are the adults here our children learn by our example. If we argue and belittle other wrestlers, teams and parents then our boys and girls learn that is proper behavior if they don't win. Lets set a good example for the wrestlers by keeping our comments positive and supportive and I think that will benefit them far more than the bickering and judging. And I wish every wrestler the best of luck on Saturday. As long as you do your best then you have nothing to be ashamed of and everything to be proud of.
It won't work. If you send two wrestlers and they both win first then they win? Uh no.
i ve thought of that too. what if there is a minimum amount of wrestlers to be considered. (Just like for jodie meeks to be considered tops in free throw percentages he has to take a minimum number of shots.) so say a team has to have atleast 13 wrestlers then divide
I have no dog in this fight, I am not in any way involved with youth wrestling in Kentucky. But why do you guys even bother keeping team scores? Do other states do this? Since it's an open tournament why not just throw out the team scores? It sounds like JCB has some what of a point that having the numbers helps a team win the title. Yet, Ryle sounds like to be the best elementary team as far as quality goes. Therefore the numbers appeared to help JC out at least last year. I would guess the coaches and parents care more about the team titles than the parents do. Do kids in grades 1-6 really care about winning an elementary team title? I doubt it. It seems like every year there's some sort of debate or controversey on this site regarding the team scoring for youth or middle school. What's the point?
I am with the Guru. No dog in this yet. But team scores are a bit overkill for this event.
Team scores do matter. You should have seen the excitment of the kids on the teams who were in the running last night. It mattered to them. Team scores matter at the Middle School level and the High School level so why not at the Elementary level. If you don't like the same teams winning it every year then do a better job at bringing kids into your program and keeping them interested in the sport. Isn't that what it's about? Bringing kids in and growing the sport. I always hear about growing the sport in Kentucky.
By the way. No disrespect but seriously can anyone tell me what's up with JC? They could have had a good showing this year with the number of kids you had last year. Ryle and Conner travel all over. The way I look at it is there is no excuse.
Let's recognize these programs. WAY TO GO Ryle, Conner and Fern Creek! Congratualations.
For not for JC not being there and showing up with tons of kids.
Precisely my point. Do you think it was a coincidence that they had the numbers they had last year?
Would the numbers you are referring to be any different than the number discrepancy between this years Fern Creek team and last years Fern Creek team?
Team scores do matter. You should have seen the excitment of the kids on the teams who were in the running last night. It mattered to them. Team scores matter at the Middle School level and the High School level so why not at the Elementary level. If you don't like the same teams winning it every year then do a better job at bringing kids into your program and keeping them interested in the sport. Isn't that what it's about? Bringing kids in and growing the sport. I always hear about growing the sport in Kentucky.
By the way. No disrespect but seriously can anyone tell me what's up with JC? They could have had a good showing this year with the number of kids you had last year. Ryle and Conner travel all over. The way I look at it is there is no excuse.
Let's recognize these programs. WAY TO GO Ryle, Conner and Fern Creek! Congratualations.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. At the high school level, there are 14 weight classes. Teams can only bring 1 kid per weight class to state. It's a level playing field. Middle school allows I think 2 kids per weight class, but 1 is a non scorer, and the weights are set. Elementary has multiple brackets per weight class, you can bring as many kids as you like in each weight class. It would make more sense in my opinion to just have it like an open tournament and throw out the team scores. Until it gets to a point where there are set weight classes, just have it as a true open. Another option maybe the youth association could consider is to have a state duals type tournament AFTER the individual state tournament to crown the elementary state team champs. Other states do this at the h.s. level, and that is a TRUE team champion.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. At the high school level, there are 14 weight classes. Teams can only bring 1 kid per weight class to state. It's a level playing field. Middle school allows I think 2 kids per weight class, but 1 is a non scorer, and the weights are set. Elementary has multiple brackets per weight class, you can bring as many kids as you like in each weight class. Any way you slice it, team scores are a mess at the elementary level. It would make more sense to just have it like an open tournament and throw out the team scores. Until it gets to a point where there are set weight classes, just have it as a true open. Another option maybe the youth association could consider is to have a state duals type tournament AFTER the individual state tournament to crown the elementary state team champs. Other states do this at the h.s. level, and that is a TRUE team champion.
I understand what you're saying Guru and your ideas are good ones. I'm not comparing apples to oranges though. I'm just saying that even with the current system, at least the top 2 out of 3 teams every year are truely being reflected as the best teams. Yes numbers definately do play a part. Which is exactly my point about JC. It's not intended to be a slam, but If they would have traveled with a fraction of the kids they had when they hosted last year, they may have finished in the top 3 or 4. It's not solely about the number of kids though. I believe Ryle had like 19 first place finishers, and alot of placers and same with Conner. That parts coaching and the quality of the kids. That is a tribute to 2 outstanding programs and their passion for the sport. I'd like to see more programs show up for the State Tournament in numbers. It just makes the tournament that much more competive and that much better.
The tournaments getting more competive every year. I still think the eight man brackets stink. Make them 16 and let's get these kids some matches. They show up and some of them only get to wrestle twice. That's a whole other topic though...
I personally like the 8 man brackets because I believe it keeps more in the sport. At this young age a lot of these kids need a little confidence boost to get them back the next year. And a 8 man bracket means more kids will get more matches. In 16 man more kids will only get to wrestle 2 matches and go home. I don't know for sure but I believe at least 90% of weight brackets couldn't fill a 16 man so why change formats for a very small percentage. IMO if 1 kid gets a medal that normally wouldn't get and keeps him wrestling instead of quitting the tournament is a success. Again for the "true champion" people host a ky tourn. of chmpions. notb Elem. state is to promote the sport for the next levels not single out just the best.
I've talked to many people about the topic of multiple brackets and most don't agree with the way it is currently. Just a handful like it the way it is. I know one new coach in Kentucky who wrestled in Ohio and was very successful. He didn't know how the tournament was set up and he thinks it absolutely absurd. I know some coaches who kind of look at Cincinnati as the model on how to run tournaments. I believe they have one elemetary state champ.
Until more people come to these meetings and let their voices be heard, it is what it is. At any rate, it's still a fun tournament.
I see what you are saying Pinandwin. And i agree with you also that the tournament is getting more competitive from what I've heard it is getting very tough. I'm not trying to take away from the teams or the kids that are doing well. They've worked hard and deserve the recognition. I'm pretty sure you are right about the way Ohio does their elementary state. They have true regionals that are qualifiers and they have 16 man brackets at state. Maybe this is where Kentucky elementary wrestling is heading. So I'm not criticizing, just saying team scores don't seem to make much sense when they split the brackets and run it basically like an open tournament.