Maybe Claywell someone else from that area can help me:
When is the all area team coming out??
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News Enterprise All Area Team
Topic ID: 5280 | 25 Posts
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You missed it. It already ran.
Keep in mind a few things:
1) Voting is NOT - I repeat, NOT - based on how kids finished at State. All News-Enterprise All-Area teams are based on the REGULAR SEASON.
2) It's not based on weight class, meaning one weight class might have two kids make the team and another weight class might not have any representatives. That's no different than any other sport (other than football) that we do.
3) IIRC, we're one of the only papers in the state that does a team like this.
4) Voting is done by coaches and only coaches. Coaches can NOT vote for their own kids.
With that said ...
PREP WRESTLING: Jakes named Wrestler of the Year, Terry named top sophomore (03/20)
By JOSH CLAYWELL
In a year when his team was as young as ever, Gary Canter knew who he could always turn to when he needed an extra coach on the mat.
Dez Jakes may not have been the most vocal leader for the LaRue County Hawks, Canter said, but his actions spoke louder than his words.
So much so that the six area wrestling coaches voted Jakes the Wrestler of the Year on the 2009 installment of The News-Enterprise All-Area Wrestling Team.
How in the world does the area wrestler of the year NOT make all area first team?? Seems like voting is skewed.
How can the Wrestler of the Year (Jakes) not be on the first team, one of only two area wrestlers to even place at state?
If it is called the All Area Team should Nelson CO. be added to the All Area Team selection? Include all area schools Meade, Nelson, LaRue and Hardin County Schools.
Or should it be called the All Hardin CO. Wrestling Team + Mead CO.?
1) Voting is NOT - I repeat, NOT - based on how kids finished at State. All News-Enterprise All-Area teams are based on the REGULAR SEASON.
Kirby Goodwine makes 2nd team but, Terrence Demery has a better record and I believe beat Kirby head 2 head. How does Terrence Demery not make the team?
2nd Region at 125
1st: Kyle Terry, Central Hardin 10 36- 4
2nd: Terrence Demery, North Hardin 11 41- 3
3rd: Kirby Goodwine, John Hardin 11 37- 14
2) It's not based on weight class, meaning one weight class might have two kids make the team and another weight class might not have any representatives. That's no different than any other sport (other than football) that we do.
Maybe it should? If it is a All Area (Wrestling) Team shouldn't there be 14 selected for each weight class, since there are 14 weight classes on a wrestling team? You are trying to pick the best team in the area?
3) IIRC, we're one of the only papers in the state that does a team like this.
The News Enterprise has done a outstanding job covering HS wrestling! Not sure just what Criteria is used for the selection, but based off of this years team it needs to be changed or (see below).
4) Voting is done by coaches and only coaches. Coaches can NOT vote for their own kids.
Based off of the 2009 AA Team, did the not use any criteria.
If the only time that a coach can see some of the other kids wrestle is at State, shouldn't it also be included in the selection criteria? (Have all the teams wrestled Meade CO during the regular season? All the other teams are Region 2 and will have seen each other before State)
This would be my All Area Criteria.
All Coaches would submit a list of names of their wrestling teams 14 wt. classes. It has to include the the criteria below for each wt. class and a team schedule.
1. Place/record at State
2. Place/record at Regions
3. Head to Head record (other All Area Teams)
4. Over all record
5. Number of pins
Quality of competition should be applied to the above.
A copy of this list would be sent to all the voting Coaches, they would pick the top 3 for each wt. class based off the above criteria. Coaches can NOT vote for their own kids. If Coaches need any information about a wrestler it should be requested through the News-Enterprise, who will decide if it is falls into the criteria. If NO- request denied, if YES- all Coaches are made aware of request and that information.
5 points-1, 3-2nd, 1-3rd: most total points = All Area 1st team, 2nd - 2nd team, 3rd honorable mention.
(points scored at State is 1st tie breaker, then points scored at Regions 2nd tie breaker)
Weight: 103
1._____________
2._____________
3._____________
> Weight: 112
1._____________
2._____________
3._____________
" "
" "
That's my 2 cents, any other thoughts (add or take away)
myGSP,
Let me repeat: All-Area is a REGULAR-SEASON award. Region does NOT count. State does NOT count. Thus all of that info ... does not exist.
As far as Wrestler of the Year and the All-Area Team itself, it is two separate voting categories. It is simply not the top All-Area vote getter. You have to be nominated by your coach for Wrestler of the Year or Sophomore of the Year.
As far as coaches NOT corresponding votes, that's their right. If you vote for Wrestler A over Wrestler B in Wrestler of the Year, then you should put Wrestler A over Wrestler B for All-Area. But the coach is NOT forced to.
As far as adding Nelson ... NO. No way. No how. No sir. This isn't an All-Region Team (or else we'd add Danville and Anderson). Or else we'd add Nelson, Adair, Campbellsville, Washington, Hart, Green, etc. in baseball, softball, volleyball, basketball. Or we'd add the Bullitt schools in cross country and track. All-Area is Hardin-LaRue-Meade KHSAA schools. That's it. No exceptions. This is non-negotiable.
As far as one wrestler per weight class, Nope. It's the 14 best wrestlers REGARDLESS of weight class, just like soccer is the 11 best regardless of position and basketball is the five best regardless of guard/forward/center and track is the XX best regardless of sprint/distance/relay/throws/jumps. And using your only one kid per weight class rule, you could include a potential region champ who does nothing at state and ignore a region runner-up who does well at State (Perez from LaRue County a few years back who didn't win region but won State). Granted Region and State results are NOT supposed to play a factor, but you get the idea.
Let me make something entirely clear: In my almost a decade of working here, there has NEVER, EVER been an All-Area team in ANY sport that I've agreed with 100 percent. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.
Every year some kid gets left off and someone goes on some long-winded rant about how it needs to be changed. Get over it. EVERY YEAR, SOMEONE WILL FEEL THEY GOT SCREWED. I get used to those phone calls and e-mails. I expect my inbox to have more mail than usual on days following the release of an All-Area team.
There is another option (which many papers have gone to) ... just quit doing them all together so we don't have to put up with it.
Your first post said:
Keep in mind a few things:
1) Voting is NOT - I repeat, NOT - based on how kids finished at State. All News-Enterprise All-Area teams are based on the REGULAR SEASON.
2nd post said
Let me repeat: All-Area is a REGULAR-SEASON award. Region does NOT count. State does NOT count. Thus all of that info ... does not exist.
I suggest that the release of the All News-Enterprise All-Area team happens after REGULAR SEASON, before REGIONS = Regions and State can't play a factor in voting
I understand NO Nelson
How can Coaches vote for someone if they could never see them in REGULAR SEASON ie.(Meade CO not being in Region 2 is at a big disadvantage on getting their kids in and their Coach has to vote to put kids on the team that he may have never seen wrestle)
As far as one wrestler per weight class, Nope. It's the 14 best wrestlers REGARDLESS of weight class,
Why where 15 selected then?
ALL-AREA TEAM.
1. 215 Tyler Crow, Meade Co
2. 135 Josh Johnson, John Hardin
3. 171 Marcell Haynes, North Hardin
4. 171 Sean Garcia-Chavez, Ft. Knox
5. 125 Kyle Terry, Central Hardin
6. 130 Jordan Murphy, John Hardin
7. 103 Nick Paden, Larue
Making the eight-member second team were
8. 160 Bernard Ray, Larue
9. 152 Robert Robey, Central Hardin
10. 285 Glenn Frost, John Hardin
11. 152 Dez Jakes, Larue
12. 125 Kirby Goodwine, John Hardin
13. 152 Tanner Cole, Meade Co
14. 130 Shaquille Cox, Larue
15. 112 Justin Thompson, Larue
Rename from ALL-AREA TEAM to ALL-AREA WRESTLERS.
ALL-AREA TEAM to me is a wrestling team put together of the best 14 wrestlers at each weight class from the area. ALL-AREA WRESTLERS would be the best wrestlers regardless of weight class.
And using your only one kid per weight class rule, you could include a potential region champ who does nothing at state and ignore a region runner-up who does well at State (Perez from LaRue County a few years back who didn't win region but won State). Granted Region and State results are NOT supposed to play a factor, but you get the idea.
RELEASE ALL-AREA... before Regions and they wont play a factor.
As I said before the News Enterprise has done a great job covering wrestling, most likely the best in the STATE. This is not a ding at Josh or you.
I will say that some /or all the Coaches messed this one UP, Since they are the only ones to vote.
There is a flaw in the system somewhere.
There is another option (which many papers have gone to) ... just quit doing them all together so we don't have to put up with it.
Yes this is a option, I would say the easy out though. Something just didn't add up with TEAM, and I would rather see the HARD RIGHT than the EASY WRONG.
That would be a good lesson for the kids, when things get hard, too much BS, the boss yelled at me, people don't agree with me, the homework is to hard, SO LETS JUST QUIT!!!
myGSP,
Let me repeat: All-Area is a REGULAR-SEASON award. Region does NOT count. State does NOT count. Thus all of that info ... does not exist.
As far as Wrestler of the Year and the All-Area Team itself, it is two separate voting categories. It is simply not the top All-Area vote getter. You have to be nominated by your coach for Wrestler of the Year or Sophomore of the Year.
As far as coaches NOT corresponding votes, that's their right. If you vote for Wrestler A over Wrestler B in Wrestler of the Year, then you should put Wrestler A over Wrestler B for All-Area. But the coach is NOT forced to.
As far as adding Nelson ... NO. No way. No how. No sir. This isn't an All-Region Team (or else we'd add Danville and Anderson). Or else we'd add Nelson, Adair, Campbellsville, Washington, Hart, Green, etc. in baseball, softball, volleyball, basketball. Or we'd add the Bullitt schools in cross country and track. All-Area is Hardin-LaRue-Meade KHSAA schools. That's it. No exceptions. This is non-negotiable.
As far as one wrestler per weight class, Nope. It's the 14 best wrestlers REGARDLESS of weight class, just like soccer is the 11 best regardless of position and basketball is the five best regardless of guard/forward/center and track is the XX best regardless of sprint/distance/relay/throws/jumps. And using your only one kid per weight class rule, you could include a potential region champ who does nothing at state and ignore a region runner-up who does well at State (Perez from LaRue County a few years back who didn't win region but won State). Granted Region and State results are NOT supposed to play a factor, but you get the idea.
Let me make something entirely clear: In my almost a decade of working here, there has NEVER, EVER been an All-Area team in ANY sport that I've agreed with 100 percent. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.
Every year some kid gets left off and someone goes on some long-winded rant about how it needs to be changed. Get over it. EVERY YEAR, SOMEONE WILL FEEL THEY GOT SCREWED. I get used to those phone calls and e-mails. I expect my inbox to have more mail than usual on days following the release of an All-Area team.
There is another option (which many papers have gone to) ... just quit doing them all together so we don't have to put up with it.
If I recall wasn't it Matt Eck and Darwin Perez in both finals Regions and State and Perez won both matches :?
News Enterprize (Josh Claywell) does a great job promoting wrestling in the area. For that thank you to both.
The system has it's flaw's, I agree with myGPS make the coaches send in the names before Regions and State and that will solve the post season issue. :roll: When you see the post season results and then scratch your head.
I still scratch my head with a kid that wins the Region, All State and not make the All Hardin County Area Team/group.
Nate/Josh don't take this as a personal hit on you or the paper, just discussion on the process. :-D
Releasing the All-Area team before region and state would be a good idea, but if a coach doesn't submit A-Nominees or B-Final Voting in time, there's not much you can do. Plus, coaches and parents have asked in the past NOT to release it before Region and State because it puts more pressure on the kids to perform.
Other than football - which ALWAYS gets released on Thanksgiving Day and many times, after almost every single area team has been eliminated in the postseason (but voting is done in OCTOBER) - no area All-Area team is released before the postseason starts. None.
As far as not seeing Meade, that's not my concern.
-- How many area coaches didn't see Meade in the regular season, either in a midweek dual or a weekend tourney (dual or individual)?
-- How many aren't paying attention to their results in the paper?
-- How many didn't pay attention to their rankings?
Considering Meade had the No. 1 and No. 13 votegetters, I'd say coaches knew of their kids. We're NOT kicking Meade out because they're in a separate region. Forget about it. Not an option.
We're NOT renaming the team. Check out girls' basketball. Two point guards. Two NCAA Division-I centers. One forward. That's not a lineup you could throw on the floor, but it represents the top five girls players in the area. Baseball, Softball, Soccer and Volleyball are the same way. It's the best XX kids regardless of position. Football is different because A-All area schools have a program and B-There are SO many kids competing in that sport that it should be different from the others.
We're not going to some sort of points system to rank the kids based on wins, losses, pins, etc. You're given a list and you rank your choices. That's the way it's done for every sport. Let's not make this harder than what it should be.
As far as there being more kids on the second team than first team, have you explored the idea of a TIE for the last two spots for the second team? In girls' hoops, there was 5 first-teamers and 6 second-teamers. There was a tie (North Hardin's Bevars and Mark Wells from John Hardin) for boys' basketball coach of the year. We honor ties.
If there were any changes, it would be this:
1) Make all votes public.
2) Have a dinner (Mr. Gattis, or deliver pizza to the N-E meeting room) with all coaches present. Then, with a N-E writer serving as moderator, they hammer out the All-Area Team. Soccer coaches used to do this all the time (but even then, EVERY school was represented, no matter how bad Fort Knox was).
You're overthinking this Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.
The system is NOT flawed.
The voters are.
A few points from me:
1. I have tried sending out e-mails and calling coaches to get nominations before the region tourney before, and it didn't work very well. I did that last year, and only two coaches sent me anything. And as Nate said, doing it before the region and state tourneys is out of the question. None of our other teams are released before the regular season is over; why should wrestling?
2. For whatever reason, the coaches voted the way they did. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's how it is. You can argue for or against every single wrestler on the team, no matter how their season went. There were some wrestlers who weren't nominated by their coaches, thus they were not on the team. They can't make the team if they're not nominated. That's not up to us.
3. Ties happen. Both wrestlers in question appeared on the same number of ballots and finished with the same amount of points. That's why there is an extra wrestler on the second team.
4. We are not getting rid of Meade County, simply because they've been part of our coverage area for as long as I can remember. And we're not adding teams like Danville and Anderson County just because they happen to be in the region with five of our teams. Not. Gonna. Happen.
5. GSP, you mentioned Perez from a few years ago. Had Eck beaten him at State or had they not have met in finals, no way would he have won Wrestler of the Year that season. But Perez beat Eck in finals and the coaches rewarded him accordingly.
6. For the most part, every area team wrestles each other at least once during the regular season. It's either that, or like some coaches will call/e-mail and ask my opinion on certain wrestlers, or they will read our paper for results and such. It's that simple.
7. I do not know what caused the voting to be skewed the way it was this year. Jakes and Murphy were, IMO, two of the best our area had to offer this season. I thought Murphy would get more votes for Wrestler of the Year, but he didn't. I also thought voting would be close between Jakes and Terry, which it was.
8. Making votes public probably will not happen, unless something even "worse" than this year happens. Not saying this year was a bad year for voting at all.
9. I enjoy covering wrestling, especially considering where I come from. Love working with the kids, coaches and parents, who are always kind and helpful.
Nate,
I can understand why you don't post prior to the post season. :-)
Understand, and agree with most all points you have addressed and they all make sense. :-D
Now everyone will understand the process. :wink:
Who do you think will win the World Classic Baseball Game South Korea or Japan :?
Oops USA is OUT, I guess all star well I'm not starting this post. :evil: :mrgreen:
Nate,
I can understand why you don't post prior to the post season. :-)
Understand, and agree with most all points you have addressed and they all make sense. :-D
Now everyone will understand the process. :wink:
Who do you think will win the World Classic Baseball Game South Korea or Japan :?
Oops USA is OUT, I guess all star well I'm not starting this post. :evil: :mrgreen:
Has Been,
If you ever venture over to Kentucky Preps, you'd have seen my posts on our All-Area Soccer teams and All-Area volleyball team.
I didn't agree with those three (boys' soccer, girls' soccer, volleyball) of those teams either, but you can NOT control how someone votes, no matter how many rules you set in place. And the more things you have set in place, the easier it is to forget a rule or get confused.
It's a pretty simple process. 1) Nominate. 2) List goes out. 3) Rank your top 14. We really, really, realllllllly can't make it much simpler than that unless we vote for you (and no, that's not going to happen because none of us are in the mood to listen to a wrestle mom tell me how her darling little Junior tries so hard and deserve to be on the team and it will be the world's greatest travesty if Junior isn't on the team).
It's like that in EVERY sport (one girls' soccer coach two years ago gave EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HER VOTES to one school. All 20. In A-B-C order no less; In basketball, one coach gave their Player of the Year vote to a former player when that particular player didn't appear on any other of the nine ballots; We've had Mr. Basketball, Miss Golf and Miss Soccer award winners get left of ballots entirely, meaning they were the best in the state but not in the top 10 or so in the area according to the coach).
The process is NOT flawed.
The voters are.
Not to mention, HasBeen, not every writer covers wrestling.
I cover the vast majority of matches and Nate pitches in with results when he isn't busy with other things. That's it. And I don't want everything to come back on me when Mom gets upset that Little Johnny gets left off the team.
Josh, Nate,
I understand and see your points of view and it passes the common sense rule, readers don't know what we don't know. FYI, people do care about what you write no matter what sport as you can see with the participation of individuals voicing there view.
BLUFF: It's up to the coaches and this year it appears they (coaches) missed the mark for whatever reason.
I don't think anyone is blaming you two for the process or the way it worked out; viewers just expressed their disapointment in the outcome and it was submitted thru you guys.
NOT at you :-D
:roll:
Could this work?
Coaches must submit a name for Wrestler of the Year and SOPHOMORE OF THE YEAR by the 9:00pm Sunday of the weekend of the Regions seeding meeting (I know that five of the six Coaches have the meeting that weekend before Regions, I assume that Meades is that weekend also).
You send the nominations to the six Coaches on Monday.
The Coaches make their vote for Wrestler of the Year and SOPHOMORE OF THE YEAR. Make their picks for the top 14 wrestlers in the area. Their votes and top 14 list must be back to you by 9:00pm Friday the day before Regions. (The REGULAR-SEASON is over at this time)
The results can be released the Sunday following State.
Coaches that miss deadline to nominate for Wrestler of the Year and SOPHOMORE OF THE YEAR, lose out on process.
Coaches that miss deadline to cast their vote for Wrestler of the Year and SOPHOMORE OF THE YEAR, making their picks for the top 14 wrestlers in the area. They lose out on the process.
(IF you want, even include their names as not voting in the article.)
Results are 100% Coaches input, unless they chose not to.
Let me make it clear I have nothing but the 100% respect for Meade CO Wrestlers and Coaching Staff, as I do with the News Enterprise Staff
The process is NOT flawed.
The voters are.
I CONCUR :-D
GSP,
1) The voting form was sent out BEFORE state. Problem was, no one turned it in until after State.
2) You can't just leave out the coaches' votes. Here's why. Say Central (the first Area school in A-B-C order, I pulled it out of my imaginary hat) doesn't vote. The other five programs can only receive four possible votes, while CH wrestlers can still receive five. While the coach misses out, that's one less ballot for an opposing wrestler to appear on. It actually puts a school at an ADVANTAGE for their coach NOT to vote.
Your suggestion changed the timing of the voting, but I don't think the timing mattered much. See Dez Jakes. Does well all regular season, in region and definitely at State, yet doesn't get on first team. If State helped anyone's cause, it helped Jordan Murphy, Jakes and Robey. Yet Jakes was helped (Wrestler of the Year) and hurt (only second team) at the same time.
Again, it's not the process. It's coaches who contradict themselves.
GSP:
I emailed asking for nominations the week after the region tourney (Tuesday of that week, so a few days after and a day or two before most left for State); one coach did not get his nominations back to me until after a week or so after State.
Once nominations were in, a voting list was sent out on March 2. I gave the coaches 10 days to get votes back to me, and all coaches did so. It took me from March 12 until the 19th to get everyone's phone numbers and get interviews done.
Getting this out before the region tournament isn't as easy as you think, GSP, simply because we have other things going on (basketball/spring sports preview stuff coming up) and I man the phones at the office every night to take scores.
There simply is no time during the week to track every wrestler and coach down, plus take all the call-ins we had from week-to-week. That's another reason we wait until after the state tourney to release the team.
And like Nate said, parents and coaches alike have asked us not to release the team before region/state. And we'll continue to do it this way. Other than football, all of our all-area teams come out after the season is over.
Nate, Josh: Like most others have said, this is in no way meant to knock the NE. You all have done an INCREDIBLE job covering wrestling for our area. What most of us have a problem with is hanging one or two particular wrestlers out to dry just because of the school they attend. After looking at both area teams (1st and second) you can't deny one school got HOSED with their awards. The coaches just need to place all personal feelings aside when they vote and vote for the BEST 14 wrestlers. (If this really is an all-area TEAM, all 14 weights need to be represented).
Nate, Josh: Like most others have said, this is in no way meant to knock the NE. You all have done an INCREDIBLE job covering wrestling for our area. What most of us have a problem with is hanging one or two particular wrestlers out to dry just because of the school they attend. After looking at both area teams (1st and second) you can't deny one school got HOSED with their awards. The coaches just need to place all personal feelings aside when they vote and vote for the BEST 14 wrestlers. (If this really is an all-area TEAM, all 14 weights need to be represented).
We're not doing weight classes, unless we somehow do 1 per weight class and like six at large for a total of 20 (10 first team, 10 second team). If you go by weight class, you get into the whole Perez-Eck argument. You think it's bad now? Wait until we have another Perez-Eck state final or have two kids from one weight class make it to the state semis. You rather honor the best in the region (in probably a not-so-good weight that particular year) as opposed to someone ranked in the top 10 and final four worthy? I sure don't.
The reason we do NOT do it by weight class is this - there are NOT enough quality wrestlers in a six-team area (most of those six don't even field full lineups). Say all six do fill all 14 weights classes (never happened since I've been here, but for the sake of argument OK). No matter how good - or how bad - that kid is, the kid already has a 16.6 percent chance of making the team. Take away your own coach, who can't vote for you, and you're up to 20 percent. Those odds are so high to make the team, it's not even remotely comparable to any other sport.
And if you do it the GSP way and vote for 3 kids per weight class, almost every single kid nominated will receive a vote, thus guaranteeing them honorable mention status. I'm sorry, but a 9-30 kid does NOT deserve that. No way. No how.
And we're not going to change that rule just for wrestling. All sports have same type of voting set-up (receive at least one vote, make honorable mention).
We're not coming up with a points system.
Again, the system is not flawed. The voters are. If the coaches want to make it as honest as can be - and want to find out how other coaches feel - then I suggest they take my suggestion and set up an All-Area coaches dinner at Gattis or Stone Hearth (may be able to get the school or boosters to comp them) and vote together.
From what I gather it's the Coaches/Coach that are messing this up. A All-Area coaches dinner might be the best solution.
i still think that deadlines for the Coaches would be the easiest for all and this is how I would do it.
1. All-Area coaches get to together, email, tele-conference and set a dead line on when the names for Wrestler of the Year and Sophomore of the Year must be submitted. (Must allow time to get the ballots out and returned to the NE before Regions. Coaches that miss deadline, miss the opportunity to nominate a wrestler)
EXAMPLE:
Coaches please nominate a Wrestler for;
Name and School
1. Wrestler of the Year ______________________________________________.
2. Sophomore of the Year _____________________________________________.
The NE gets six nominations for each (could be six names or less for each), these names are added to the All-Area Team ballots. The ballots are resent out to the Coaches for voting.
EXAMPLE:
Wrestler of the Year Sophomore of the Year
1. Jimmy John ________ 1. Big Bill_________
2. Betty Sue ________ 2. Sammy Small__________
3. Bob Blow ________ 3. Becky Blue ___________
4. Timmy Well ________ 4. Dave Ducken _________
5. Kevin Crackle _________
6. Kenny Vetter _________
The Coaches vote using the NE voting system.
Coaches please list the best wrestlers for the All-Area Team from the following schools, Mead, NH, JH, CH, FT Knox, LaRue. (#1 being the best, #2 the second best, and so on.)
Name and School
1.________________________________________________.
2.________________________________________________.
3.________________________________________________.
"" ""
12.________________________________________________.
13.________________________________________________.
14.________________________________________________.
If this Ballot is not returned by 9:00 to the NE your VOTES will not COUNT and ANY WRESTLERS from YOUR SCHOOL on other Ballots will be Scratched / Taken off other Coaches Ballots.
( This will have to be agreed to by all voting Coaches when they set the deadlines. The All-Area Team might not have 14 names but, at least those kids will known that their Coaches GAVE A CRAP ABOUT THEM. If kids don't make the Team because of the Coach, at least the kids and parents will know why. )
NE gets the Ballots by that Friday before Regions, REGULAR SEASON is OVER. The NE has over two weeks to put the Team on paper, and some time the week following State do the Interviews for the story. Release of team isn't made until after State and only includes what the wrestlers did in the REGULAR SEASON.
We're not doing weight classes, unless we somehow do 1 per weight class and like six at large for a total of 20 (10 first team, 10 second team). If you go by weight class, you get into the whole Perez-Eck argument. You think it's bad now? Wait until we have another Perez-Eck state final or have two kids from one weight class make it to the state semis. You rather honor the best in the region (in probably a not-so-good weight that particular year) as opposed to someone ranked in the top 10 and final four worthy? I sure don't.
When the News-Enterprise All-Area Team is released, you make a note that all voting was based on the REGULAR SEASON and conducted before Regions and State. What ever happens at Regions and State is what it is.
When the News-Enterprise All-Area Team is released, you make a note that all voting was based on the REGULAR SEASON and conducted before Regions and State. What ever happens at Regions and State is what it is.
That's what I've been saying all along: It really does NOT matter what the kid does at region and state. I don't care. It plays no factor. But we are not going to release it before region or state, either.
As far as your idea of taking kids off because their coach won't vote ... no. Not fair to the kids (who this team is No. 1 for). Don't penalize the kids because a coach can't/won't follow simple directions. That's not an option.
You've got to come up with something else.
And we give the coaches deadlines. Like I said, I gave them 10 days to get votes back to me. I gave them from the Monday after region to that next weekend (following State) to get me nominations.
The deadlines are not the problem.
Is nobody reading between the lines of Josh and Nathan's comments?
The problem is NOT the process, nor the newspaper, nor anything else other than
THE COACHES/VOTERS!!!!
No matter what anyone does, what system anyone comes up with, no matter how many weight classes are voted on, nothing is going to change until the problem does.
Thanks guys for such a great job with covering wrestling!!!!
Is nobody reading between the lines of Josh and Nathan's comments?
The problem is NOT the process, nor the newspaper, nor anything else other than
THE COACHES/VOTERS!!!!
No matter what anyone does, what system anyone comes up with, no matter how many weight classes are voted on, nothing is going to change until the problem does.
Thanks guys for such a great job with covering wrestling!!!!
Thank you!
Unless you come up with sort of computer-esque ranking system - which we have not, are not and will not do - voting will always have the potential for human error.
It's like that in EVERY sport we do. All of them. None are spared. I've been through more than 100 total all-area teams in my time with the paper (including all fall, winter and spring sports) and I have NEVER 100 percent agreed with any of them. Hasn't happened. Probably can't happen (unless all of the voters find a way to read my mind).
The point some are missing on this thread is this: No matter how many tweaks to the system, some deserving kid will be left off (by accident, by coach's hatred, by coach's cluelessness, by not being nominated, whatever).
I know it's a cliche: You can't please all the people all the time.
Thing is, it's true, too.
Josh, Nate,
I understand and see your points of view and it passes the common sense rule, readers don't know what we don't know. FYI, people do care about what you write no matter what sport as you can see with the participation of individuals voicing there view.
BLUFF: It's up to the coaches and this year it appears they (coaches) missed the mark for whatever reason.
I don't think anyone is blaming you two for the process or the way it worked out; viewers just expressed their disapointment in the outcome and it was submitted thru you guys.
NOT at you :-D
:roll:
Big Coach,
In the beginning, I thought the system could be adjusted to allow or prevent the coaches from screwing it up. And I think that's what others though as well. Coach proof the format.
As I said, people do care about what NE writes as you can see with the participation of individuals voicing there view.
BLUFF: The coaches missed the mark.
Again NO one is blaming NE. Viewers are just expressing their disapointment in the outcome. Maybe, Someone should take all the coaches out to the wood shed for some counseling.