now that all the Region results are in, what are your picks for state finals

here's some of mine

103: Brock Ervin(UC) dec. Garth Yenter(CC)

112: John Fahy(TRI) Major Nick Paden(LC)

119: Mark Hall(Ryle) dec. Myron Bradbury(TRI)

125: Michael Osborne(Ryle) fall Caleb Canter(LC)

130: Luke Troxell(Wayne) dec. Austin Palmer(Ryle)

140: Caleb Ervin(UC) dec. Zack Roland(Ryle)

145: Korey Shotwell(CC) dec. Terrance Demery(NH)

152: Connor Coyle(Ryle) dec. Josh Johnson(JH)

160: JJ Jude(JC) dec. John Lampe(STX)

171: Brad Hitchings(TRI) dec. Jeremy Gardner(FC)

now that all the Region results are in, what are your picks for state finals

here's some of mine

103: Brock Ervin(UC) dec. Garth Yenter(CC)

112: John Fahy(TRI) Major Nick Paden(LC)

119: Mark Hall(Ryle) dec. Myron Bradbury(TRI)

125: Michael Osborne(Ryle) fall Caleb Canter(LC)

130: Luke Troxell(Wayne) dec. Austin Palmer(Ryle)

140: Caleb Ervin(UC) dec. Zack Roland(Ryle)

145: Korey Shotwell(CC) dec. Terrance Demery(NH)

152: Connor Coyle(Ryle) dec. Josh Johnson(JH)

160: JJ Jude(JC) dec. John Lampe(STX)

171: Brad Hitchings(TRI) dec. Jeremy Gardner(FC)

I predict Demery doesn't make weight again.  I'll say day 2.

103- Ervin over Yenter

112- Fahy over Paden

119- Bradbury over Hall

125- Osbourne over Canter

130- Cooper over ?

135- Shirey over Rusch

140- Ervin over Thomson

145- Shotwell over someone?

152- Johnson over Coyle

160- Jude over Lampe

171- Hitchings over Garnder

189- Souther kid over ?

215- Dont care

285- Harlow over ?

Jude at 160 has a tough draw

103: Yenter over Milford

112: Fahy over Brown

119: Hall over Bradbury

125: Osbourne over Carr

130: Palmer over Troxell

135: Thomas over Murphy

140: Ervin over Roland

145: Shotwell over Demerey

152: Johnson over Coyle

160: Lee over Broussard

171: Hitichings over Gardner

189: Ilg over Barnett

215: Newberry over Crow

285: Pace over Frost

103: Yenter over Milford

112: Fahy over Brown

119: Hall over Bradbury

125: Osbourne over Carr

130: Palmer over Troxell

135: Thomas over Murphy

140: Ervin over Roland

145: Shotwell over Demerey

152: Johnson over Coyle

160: Lee over Broussard

171: Hitichings over Gardner

189: Ilg over Barnett

215: Newberry over Crow

285: Pace over Frost

103 - Yenter and Milford can't be in the finals....they are on the same side of the bracket.

103 - Yenter and Milford can't be in the finals....they are on the same side of the bracket.

Same with Osborne and Carr.....no finals match.....same side of the bracket

103:Brock Ervin over Pat Milford

112:John Fahy over Chase Boone

119:Mark Hall over Myron Bradbury

125:Michael Osborne over Jimmy Lacy

130:Kyle Terry over Austin Palmer

135:Isaac Thomas over Jordan Murphy

140:Caleb Ervin over Dan Thomson

145:Grant Ohlmann over Terrance Demery

152:Josh Johnson over Conner Coyle

160:JJ Jude over Erin McCauly

171:Brad Hitchings over Gavin Agnew

189:Bernard Ray over Brandon Barnett

215:Tyler Crow over Drew Newberry

285:Glenn Frost over Ryan Harlow

I predict Demery doesn't make weight again.  I'll say day 2.

He will be fine this year. He hasn't has to cut weight all year. He was struggling in previous years, but he has grown and matured into his body without having to sacrifice speed or strength. Don't bet against him.

He will be fine this year. He hasn't has to cut weight all year. He was struggling in previous years, but he has grown and matured into his body without having to sacrifice speed or strength. Don't bet against him.

thats right he has only had to cut weight once when he dropped to 140 once and that was it he has always been where he needs to be 

103- Ervin dec Milford

112- Fahy maj Paden

119- Hall dec Bradbury

125- Osbourne dec Canter

130- Troxell maj Palmer

135- Thomas dec Murphy

140- Ervin maj Salyers

145- Demery dec Slone

152- Johnson dec Back

160- Jude dec Lee

171- Hitchings Pin Gardner

189- Stafford dec Barnett

215- Newberry maj Crow

285- Frost dec Harlow

He will be fine this year. He hasn't has to cut weight all year. He was struggling in previous years, but he has grown and matured into his body without having to sacrifice speed or strength. Don't bet against him.

Iotaman, I know that you want him to win. Quit being a "bone head" ** You want tickets for what???**

103-milford over ervin

112-fahy over brown

119-bradbury over hall

125-carr over osbourne

130-cooper over palmer

135-murphy over thomas

140-roland over ervin

145-shotwell over demery

152-johnson over back

160-jude over lee

171-hitchings over gardner

189-barnett over ray

215-newberry over crow

hvy-frost over harlow

103-Ervin over Milford maj dec 14-6

112-Fahy over Paden T fall 18-2

119-Hall over Bradbury dec 6-5

125-Carr over Lacy dec 10-5

130-Palmer over Terry dec 6-5

135-Thomas over Murphy dec 7-4

140-Ervin over Thompson pin 2nd period

145-Demery over Shotwell dec 6-4

152-Johnson over Coyle dec 8-6

160-Lampe over Jude dec 12-7

171-Hitchings over Gardner maj dec 13-2

189-Stafford over Barnett dec 8-3

215-Crow over Newberry dec 3-2

285-Frost over Harlow dec 4-1

With Logsdon, Osbourne and Carr all on the same side that means one of these kids will be a finalist:

Caleb Canter Larue County 9 LARU 

Brock Moore Dupont Manual  MANU 

Tyler Martin Hopkinsville  HOP 

Corbin Woods Campbell County 9 CACO 

Brad Williams Perry County Central 10 PECC 

Trent Cox Fern Creek 9 FERN 

James Childress Meade County  MEAD 

Brandon Birk Trinity (Louisville)  TRIN 

Josh Powell Doss  DOSS 

Drew Miller Scott 11 SCOT 

Jeff Couch Whitley County 11 WHCO 

Jimmy Lacy Lafayette 11 LAFA 

Cameron Montgomery University Heights  UHA 

Kortland Maguire North Hardin 10 NHAR 

Jo Rupp Eastern 9 EAST

...and then will get pinned in the 1st period. 

THEY NEED TO START SEEDING TOP 4 at state to prevent this from happening....and this isn't the only weight like this.  The real 125 state title will take place in the semis.

With Logsdon, Osbourne and Carr all on the same side that means one of these kids will be a finalist:

Caleb Canter Larue County 9 LARU 

Brock Moore Dupont Manual  MANU 

Tyler Martin Hopkinsville  HOP 

Corbin Woods Campbell County 9 CACO 

Brad Williams Perry County Central 10 PECC 

Trent Cox Fern Creek 9 FERN 

James Childress Meade County  MEAD 

Brandon Birk Trinity (Louisville)  TRIN 

Josh Powell Doss  DOSS 

Drew Miller Scott 11 SCOT 

Jeff Couch Whitley County 11 WHCO 

Jimmy Lacy Lafayette 11 LAFA 

Cameron Montgomery University Heights  UHA 

Kortland Maguire North Hardin 10 NHAR 

Jo Rupp Eastern 9 EAST

...and then will get pinned in the 1st period. 

THEY NEED TO START SEEDING TOP 4 at state to prevent this from happening....and this isn't the only weight like this.  The real 125 state title will take place in the semis.

Lacy would be a deserving finalist

Lacy would be a deserving finalist

Osbourne & Carr have both beaten Lacy rather handily!

For the price of admission, THE FANS & PARENTS DESERVE THIS!! Not to mention the wrestlers!!

103  Pat Milford v. Brock Ervin

112  John Fahy v. Nick Paden

119  Mark Hall v.  Myron Bradbury

125  Brandon Birk v. Jayce Carr

130  Brent Hitchings v. Kevin Cooper

135  Isaac Thomas v. Jordan Murphy

140  Caleb Ervin v. Dan Thompson

145  Terrence Demery v. Grant Olhman

152  Josh Johnson v. Connor Coyle

160  Erin Mccauley v. Jake Lee

171  Brad Hitchings v. Jeremy Gardner

189  Billy Floyd v. Nate Ilg

215  Tyler Crow v. Drew Newberry

285  Tyler Pace v. Ryan Harlow

To be a state champion you have to beat them all so it does not matter. 

I don't like the seed idea because we will still have this same argument.  Not everyone agrees who should be 1, 2, 3, or 4.

If there is seeding then it is another excuse for not being in the finals.  Such as "I got the shaft, because the coaches didn't think I was 2nd best" or something like this.  At least now they can only say "I got unlucky in the draw".

I know this feeling I lost twice in the semi's to the state champ and thought that I was 2nd best both years.

And Logsdon dominated Lacy at Regions (I know the score was kinda close, but the match wasn't). Logsdon had Lacy pinned, like really really pinned and couldn't get the call (the refs were bad about this the whole finals...if a kid is stuck, CALL IT!).  And Logsdon was up 11-4 after giving Lacy an escape pt at the end of the 2nd period.  He stalled the rest of the way but the match was never truly in contention.

GOO: you of all people should agree that seeding the top 4 makes sense considering how your career ended.

I agree that in order to win you have to beat the best...but can't we make it under the lights on Saturday night instead of in the quarters or semis when there are 4 other matches taking place? The state tourney is one of the best HS sporting events I've ever witnessed, don't we owe it to the participants and spectators to make it the best we can by seperating the top 4 wrestlers?

I'm sure there would be some arguing over seeds, but I've seen it done in under an hour for a 26 team tourney in the past.....we have all week to get it right for state. Its time for a change, KHSAA.

thats funny cause the final score was 9-7. if mack had not caught lacy with the roll it would have not have been the same. Both are tough and will place, but looks like the lose was the best thing for lacy by looking at the brackets.

With Logsdon, Osbourne and Carr all on the same side that means one of these kids will be a finalist:

THEY NEED TO START SEEDING TOP 4 at state to prevent this from happening....and this isn't the only weight like this.  The real 125 state title will take place in the semis.

but the person who wrestles the best at the tournment will win anyway so i dont see why it matters

"but looks like the lose was the best thing for lacy by looking at the brackets."

Exactly why seeding should be implemented. Thanks for supporting my argument.

AARON BACK 152 I coached him in INDIANA hated to loose him

he will be your champ :mrgreen:

AARON BACK 152 I coached him in INDIANA hated to loose him

he will be your champ :mrgreen:

he wont beat josh johnson  :wink:

he wont beat josh johnson  :wink:

I wouldn't bet the whole purse on that. :wink:

I wouldn't bet the whole purse on that. :wink:

id put the bank on it  8-)

AARON BACK 152 I coached him in INDIANA hated to loose him

he will be your champ :mrgreen:

Back is very tough...  I look for him to be in the finals.

AARON BACK 152 I coached him in INDIANA hated to loose him

he will be your champ :mrgreen:

Are you talking about Mark Back. I don't see any Aaron Back at 152.

If you were seeding what would you do with the 130's in Region 6?

Palmer lost to Cooper in Regional

Cooper lost to Palmer earlier in the year

Supe lost to both but could easily be top 4. 

If you only seed regional champs then you don't seed Palmer or Supe. 

An impossible task.  Regional seeding meetings take up to 3 hours to complete and have seen them go as long as 4 hours.  Could you imagine the state seed meeting.  (Better gets some cots and lots of food for this three day event)

If you were seeding what would you do with the 130's in Region 6?

Osborne lost to Cooper in Regional

Cooper lost to Osborne earlier in the year

Supe lost to both but could easily be top 4. 

If you only seed regional champs then you don't seed Osborne or Supe. 

An impossible task.  Regional seeding meetings take up to 3 hours to complete and have seen them go as long as 4 hours.  Could you imagine the state seed meeting.  (Better gets some cots and lots of food for this three day event)

did you mean palmer?

did you mean palmer?

Yes I did.  :-D

I fixed it.  :-P

Are you talking about Mark Back. I don't see any Aaron Back at 152.

mark is his daddy

I'd seed 130 as such:

1. Troxell (no question here)

2. Cooper (split w/ Palmer but his win was most recent, and in the region finals)

3. Palmer

4. Kyle Terry

McCall and Supe just miss out on being seeded.

It would be a rule that #1 seed HAS to be a region champ. So if you ran the table all yr, but lost in the region finals then the best you could get is a 2 seed.

You're making this harder than it really is, GOO.  Establishing a few tie-breakers (record against common opponents, record against wrestlers in your region) would help the process along.  I have faith in KY coaches to do this effectively and efficiently, don't you? OR just establish a "seeding committee" made up of former coaches, refs and former wrestlers that could do it without taking away time from practice and hopefully w/o too much bias.

My point exactly.

I would say top 4.

Cooper

Palmer

Troxell

Hitchings.

And that would be because I have not seen many of the others wrestle.

there is always bias towards the wrestlers you have seen more often. 

I just don't understand the need for seeding.  If the best two wrestle in the quarters then you still get to see them wrestle.  It's a bonus finals match.  Who cares where it happens.  The Quarters and Semi's are almost always more exciting than the finals anyway.

I have faith in KY coaches to do this effectively and efficiently, don't you?

Are you serious? Have you ever been to a regional seeding meeting? This year at region 7 they spent more than 45 minutes on the 3 vs 4 seed at 119 between Bracco and Soriano. Can you image the state tournament?

I saiod the same thing in another post, it would be crazy to try to have a seed meeting, just too hard a thing to fix something that affects so little

a state seed meeting would be an impossiblity.

1.  Impossible to get  up to 100 coaches together

2. Time needed for 100 coaches to discuss 14 weight classes

3.  Lack of agreement on what the criteria wuold be

4.  Lack of common opponants, head to head ect

5.  Lack of medical insurance to pay the bills after the fights, asaults, thrown chairs, ect. 

Every state has this problem.

The bottem line is the best kid should win. The worst case scenario is the second best kid ends up 3rd or occasionally a kid "sneaks" into 2nd on the weak side of the bracket.  We have a pretty good tournament let's not try to screw it up

The only way I would seed it is if you only took into consideration regional champions AND if you placed top 3 last year, you would seed them according to the order in which they placed at state last year.

If you have two state champions, place them on opposite sides (or 3, random draw). Simple, and there is no bias possible.

No way would I ever want to see a room full of coaches trying to plead why their kid is better than someone else at the state tournament.

I also wouldn't trust a *committee* to make those decisions either

We're only talking about top 4 here, and with the requirement that only region champs can receive #1 seeds and implementing the tie-breakers I previously mentioned it wouldn't be near as hard as you all are making it out to be.

And yes, I do enjoy watching great matchups in the quarters and semis...but not 4 matches at once!  My only goal is to make the state finals the best they can possibly be.  You would still have some great semis matches if the top 4 were seeded...no one can deny that.

Bob Preusse seed's the Ironman

Adrian Stewart seed's Beast

They use a simple formula that could be implemented here!

Should at least be looked at since the tournament is so saturated with 32 man bracket!

does anyone know when ranger will put out the predictions for the state tournament?

alright, i wasn't gonna say anything here, but i think something needs to be pointed out: WE AREN'T THERE TO SEE WHO IS 2-8!!! We go to Frankfort to crown 14 STATE CHAMPIONS!!! Forget seeding, we aren't there to see who is the 2nd best, we're there to see who is the BEST. End of discussion.

and i'm sure ranger is working tirelessly to finish up his pre-state buildup!! :-D

Bob Preusse seed's the Ironman

Adrian Stewart seed's Beast

They use a simple formula that could be implemented here!

Should at least be looked at since the tournament is so saturated with 32 man bracket!

Here's a link:http://www.walshironman.com/seedcriteria.html

alright, i wasn't gonna say anything here, but i think something needs to be pointed out: WE AREN'T THERE TO SEE WHO IS 2-8!!! We go to Frankfort to crown 14 STATE CHAMPIONS!!! Forget seeding, we aren't there to see who is the 2nd best, we're there to see who is the BEST. End of discussion.

and i'm sure ranger is working tirelessly to finish up his pre-state buildup!! :-D

If that is the only reason than why all the extra bagage a 16 man bracket is more than adiquite to decide that outcome!!

alright, i wasn't gonna say anything here, but i think something needs to be pointed out: WE AREN'T THERE TO SEE WHO IS 2-8!!! We go to Frankfort to crown 14 STATE CHAMPIONS!!! Forget seeding, we aren't there to see who is the 2nd best, we're there to see who is the BEST. End of discussion.

and i'm sure ranger is working tirelessly to finish up his pre-state buildup!! :-D

ok thanks

Seedings have been and always will be hard at any tourny, but if some teams would stop dodging each other for the sake of not meeting until region and state then there would be a more stable outline on who has beaten who or placed higher in this or that tourny. In- state records would come into play alot easier and seedings would be simplier. I have always believed that those wrestlers who earned the right to be top seeds should get them and the average wrestler should battle amongst themselves for the right to meet them. Put in-place a minimum no# of in-state or regional competitions that have to be complete before the season's end and this will not effect teams obligations to outside tournys and give the coaches/ committee a guideline inwhich to seat wrestlers.

Ron

most teams that wrestle out of state do it to seek better competition, not to dodge anyone

Thebigger problem is the same teams wrestling each other to often.  Furrther the whole point of a state tournament is ot match up and see whos better.  I feveryone has wrestled everyone already, whats the point

Not only do they go out of state for the competition but they also do so because of cost.

In Nky we can make a trip to Cincinnati Ohio and have 20+ teams to choose from to compete against.  Not to mention the Superior wrestling.  This is a 20 minute drive.

Otherwise we have to travel to either Lex. or Lou. which would take approximately 2 hours to drive to.

a state seed meeting would be an impossiblity.

1.  Impossible to get  up to 100 coaches together

2. Time needed for 100 coaches to discuss 14 weight classes

3.  Lack of agreement on what the criteria wuold be

4.  Lack of common opponants, head to head ect

5.  Lack of medical insurance to pay the bills after the fights, asaults, thrown chairs, ect. 

Every state has this problem.

The bottem line is the best kid should win. The worst case scenario is the second best kid ends up 3rd or occasionally a kid "sneaks" into 2nd on the weak side of the bracket.  We have a pretty good tournament let's not try to screw it up

1. There would be nowhere near 100 coaches involved.  I would guess there would be maybe 30 to 40 coaches involved in the discussion.

2. Again, most coaches around the state would not even need to be involved.

3. The coaches association and KHSAA set the criteria and we use it.  No questions asked.

4. I'm sure we can come up with enough criteria points to handle such situations, like previous state placement(s).

5. I would suggest a conference call rather than the time and expense of traveling to a meeting.

Ranger can you  imagine 30 coaches on a conferance call.  we can't seem to even level out the regions. But just for fun let's  seed say the top  4 (or 8) wrestlers.  How to we fit the rest in? Blind draw?  How would that go over?

Ranger can you  imagine 30 coaches on a conferance call.  we can't seem to even level out the regions. But just for fun let's  seed say the top  4 (or 8) wrestlers.  How to we fit the rest in? Blind draw?  How would that go over?

I've always said only seed the region champs, top 4, 6, or 8.  I don't care.  Then the #2, #3, and #4 fall into place based on the current bracket layout (#1 vs #4, #2 vs #3).  The seeding separate the top guys and determine the region vs region draws based on how the seeds fall out.

There would only be a few coaches "discussing" each weight class. 

Leaving the state in search of better competition doesn't speak well of the wrestlers in ky, but I understand that, as well as I understand financial difficulties of some programs. This has been a growing problem for some of the southwestern ky programs for many years. They are finding it more and more difficult to go the tournaments in northern and eastern parts of ky in persuit of better competition, but are hampered by finances as well. This forces them to seek competition in tenn or missouri.  It's not a perfect world as we all know, but if what everyone claims that they're in it for the kids, then some changes and compromises need to be made across the board for all programs not just some. I need to get back to the seeding question,sry i'm rambling, the kids who prove themselves above the rest during the season deserve that perk at state and will provide more evenly matched finals as well as more exciting championship matches....it's done in other sports and with much success I might add, why not at state?

Other sports do it?

Football? Basketball? Baseball? Track? Who seeds the state tourney?  They all may seed their district/regional tourneys but thats all. 

Sry wasn't talkin bout hs, but it would seem that seedings is a really touchie issue...i'm just a fan of if u earn it u should get it. Being one of or the top wrestler in your weight class in the state during the year as well as in your regional tourny, it should be an added perk you can earn at the state tournament. Just something else to shoot for.

The fact is 90% of these kids are not wrestling for a state title. They are wrestling for the best placement they can get. And for the 10% wrestling for a state title, 75% of those kids meet in the quarters or semis. This also means the kid that forfeited in the finals at regional tournament got the best DRAW at state tournament.

Which goes back to regional seeding. This is garbage, this should be straight up criteria.

Your records should be available with means to verify. No arguing over records. No verification no seed!!

Ryle, Campbell co., Simon Kenton etc. that wrestle in Ohio more than easily have verification of there criteria. Takes the argument out of the scenario!

Another good point.  Mandatory reporting of results.  If the "committee" had all of the results throughout the season and we established a criteria, the seeding would be done.  Then a conference call would be held simply to go over the results and discuss and crazy situations that were especially complicated.

Another good point.  Mandatory reporting of results.  If the "committee" had all of the results throughout the season and we established a criteria, the seeding would be done.  Then a conference call would be held simply to go over the results and discuss and crazy situations that were especially complicated.

Would you change the date for a wrestler to change weight classes. If a wrestler competes at 145 and then at state duals drops to 140 or goes up to 150. Then you wouldn't have much info on these wrestlers for there weight classes. This would through the criteria out the window. They may be the best but don't have many matches and could throw the top two wrestlers on the same side again.

I agree with Ranger, seed the top 8 kids. All the region placements would fall in after that. If you have the number one kid in the state in your region and you place second. Then you would be away from him in state. Gets you away and the possibility to show your worth against other seeded wrestlers first. I also like the mandatory reporting. If coaches have to send info on kids in to a state director then we have seeding criteria. You would see some of those head to head matches. And even if they weren't head to head maybe level of opponents would give you a basis as well.

Move the mandatory date up to first weekend of January.

I agree with Ranger, seed the top 8 kids. All the region placements would fall in after that. If you have the number one kid in the state in your region and you place second. Then you would be away from him in state. Gets you away and the possibility to show your worth against other seeded wrestlers first. I also like the mandatory reporting. If coaches have to send info on kids in to a state director then we have seeding criteria. You would see some of those head to head matches. And even if they weren't head to head maybe level of opponents would give you a basis as well.

What if the #1 kid gets 2nd then he could wrestle the #2 kid in the state in the second round. Why can't we just seed all 32 wrestlers. That would be fair for all wrestlers and those teams that are vying for a state title.

If he is the #1 kid and gets second then maybe he is not the #1 kid. He lost his opportunity just as any other kid would if he was in his situation. Just because we assume someone is going to win doesn't necessarily mean they will win. He had the ranking and lost it just as any other kid would in his shoes. That seem fair?

That is why they have a blind draw. There is know way to seed state so its fair for all. Someone will get seeded in the top four or eight that shouldn't be there and you will have even more complaints then you do now!!!!!!!!

Ky is not that deep.  The coaches don't need to be a part of it.  Seed the regional winners.  1-8.  If the deal is a question of 1 or 2.... they still are the furthest they can be apart.  It should be very rare 1 2 3 and 4 all have claims to be a 1 or 2 seed.... at least they have only 1 of the top 4 in their half of the bracket.  The less people involved in seeding the better.  Just a little effort to keep the top 4 apart.   

3/4 nelson nailed it.  it wouldn't be that hard to do