For me to complain about the 32 man bracket!

It was made to promote wrestling in the state?  Well, in my opinion, it is horrible...

Just look at 145 this year.  Wow.  125 is similar.  There is no was #1 and #2 should ever meet in quarters.  Or 1,2 and 3 be on the same side.  It's not fair to the wrestlers.  I wish 119 would of been messed up too just to complain.  This is my new BCS...

Not to mention the state tournament itself is too long with a 32 man bracket.  Go back to 16.

I agree it used to mean something when you made it to state.  I also believe you should seed the top four, worst case senario top 2.  But in the society we live in today we will never see state return to 16 man bracket.  1) we cant hurt little jonnys feelings by not letting him compete in the state tourny  because getting his teeth kicked in by a 1 seed wont embaress him more.  2) Its all money driven, the longer we are in Frankfort the more hotel rooms we rent, more food we consume, ect.

The fact that it is a 32 man bracket doesn't bother me much... it's the fact that we run a 32 man bracket on 4 mats...

For me to complain about the 32 man bracket!

It was made to promote wrestling in the state?  Well, in my opinion, it is horrible...

Just look at 145 this year.  Wow.  125 is similar.  There is no was #1 and #2 should ever meet in quarters.  Or 1,2 and 3 be on the same side.  It's not fair to the wrestlers.  I wish 119 would of been messed up too just to complain.  This is my new BCS...

Not to mention the state tournament itself is too long with a 32 man bracket.  Go back to 16.

your scrren name is just wrestle so you dont worry about it and just wrestle lol :-D

I don't mind the 32 man brackets.  It beats the old days when we only had regionals and the top two from each region went to state.  It wasn't unusual for the second or third best wrestler in the state to miss the state tournament.  The Frankfort venue is a big improvement over a high school gym.  With the format we have now, the best wrestlers usually find a way to end up on top in the end.  My only gripe is not seeding the top four wrestlers.

i think the 32 man bracket is pretty good, if lil jonny gets his teeth kicked in by a 1 seed that'll make him work that much harder for the next year, plus some of the regions have a lot of quality wrestlers at the same weight, region 6 130 for example palmer, cooper, and supe, cut the bracket in half 1 of those kids dont make it to state and all 3 have a good chance of placing

I like the 32 also, but hate the 3 day thing. I also know that its hard for some teams to afford the three day state. Many have tiny budgets and its hard to afford the rooms, travel, and food for three days. I also know many school districts are not happy with students being out of school for two days, from what i understand they are pushing khsaa for some change.

I can handle a 32 man bracket (even though I like 16 man better).

I can handle a 3-day tourny.

But please seed the top 4 wrestlers in each weight.

its hard enough to seed for the regions in many wieght classes, the seed meeting in region seven was over 3 hours long... can you imagine the seed meeting for state, it would be a huge headache to fix a problem that only a few have. its just not worth it. Life is not always fair, and neither is the draws at state.

plus some of the regions have a lot of quality wrestlers at the same weight, region 6 130 for example palmer, cooper, and supe, cut the bracket in half 1 of those kids dont make it to state and all 3 have a good chance of placing

If you return to the format of District (Top 4 qualify) Region (Top 4 qualify) then these three still qualify for the state torney.

Region 5 and region 6 would make the new region.  The new region bracket would look like this.

Cooper

Spangler

Supe

Avera

Palmer

Breneman

Hamilton

Nyitrai

The top 4 go to state.

Qualifying for state means you get to participate.

What you do at state determines if you belong.

It's state, nobody remembers who came in second nor do we care. We are there to find out who is the best in the state. If you are going to seed them then why even wrestle. You already determined the top 8 so just give them their trophies, and if you think you can just seed the top four you are crazy. Everyone would have to be seeded. The only way to seed the wrestlers is to have a District, Region, Semi State & State tournaments. They tried this before and it almost killed wrestling in Kentucky. So we get to argue about the same issue every year just like they did 30 years ago.

I like the three day 32 man bracket but would like five mats so the sessions would be shorter. 

I agree that we come to Frankfort to find out who is the best and not second best.  But allow me to throw out a legitmate reason why we need to seed at state tournament.

We come to NOT ONLY FIND OUT THE INDIVDUAL STATE CHAMPIONS, but we also come to name a TEAM STATE CHAMPION.

Bracketing does indeed determine the team state champion.  Let me give you two examples from just this year and how the blind draw plays a role in determining the team champion.  At 112, you have Ruschell and Fahy, by all rights, meeting in the semis.  Ruschell would be the three seed and should, if seeded get a chance to advance to finals and score points for his team by meeting Paden instead of Fahy in the semis.  Olhman has a brutal draw, meeting Sloane in the quarters and Shotwell in the semis.  While we will determine individual state champions, these two draws will also determine the team state champion.

If the KHSAA is going to name a team champion, there needs to be a seeding set up for individuals.  Or, just use state duals as the team state championship and state tournament ONLY for indivuals.

Qualifying for state means you get to participate.

What you do at state determines if you belong.

I agree with that.

I can handle a 32 man bracket (even though I like 16 man better).

I can handle a 3-day tourny.

But please seed the top 4 wrestlers in each weight.

I agree with this, seeding the top 8 is just pointless. There's only one weight class out of 14 that deserves to seed the top 8 and that's 119.

Another note... In the 16 man bracket the majority of the best matches were in the finals but now with the 32 man bracket all the best match-ups are in the semifinals.  Whoever's the best will find his way to the top of the podium regardless of where the best matches are in the bracket. I would rather see the best matches under the lights like they're supposed to be.

Finals are supposed to be the best of the best, not one of the best.

Great point by BigCoach.  It does matter to teams going for the team title.  And it does make a difference to a wrestler if the #2 wrestles the #1 in quarters or the finals.  Big  difference.

I could live with a 32 man bracket but would rather go back to 16.  But its not fair to not seed.  And don't give me the life isn't fair line.

And, by just the luck of the draw, Bradbury and Hall are not meeting in the quarterfinals.  We might have been cheated out of one heck of a final, and a highly anticipated match.

So why is seeding such a dreaded and hated word?  We seed the Regionals.  The only real issue is usually separating the top four guys so they don't hit until the semis and finals. 

Here we go again...Tennessee does it quite nicely.

If seeding is that bad, why do it for the Regionals?

Seriously, remember this, it is only the luck of the draw that we will see Hall and Bradbury in the finals.  I hate leaving things like this to pure chance, when year after year we could assure these matches happen in the finals  Instead, we watch great quarters and semis, then quick pins or major decisions right after the pagentry and build up of the finals ceremony.

I agree that we come to Frankfort to find out who is the best and not second best.  But allow me to throw out a legitmate reason why we need to seed at state tournament.

We come to NOT ONLY FIND OUT THE INDIVDUAL STATE CHAMPIONS, but we also come to name a TEAM STATE CHAMPION.

Bracketing does indeed determine the team state champion.  Let me give you two examples from just this year and how the blind draw plays a role in determining the team champion.  At 112, you have Ruschell and Fahy, by all rights, meeting in the semis.  Ruschell would be the three seed and should, if seeded get a chance to advance to finals and score points for his team by meeting Paden instead of Fahy in the semis.  Olhman has a brutal draw, meeting Sloane in the quarters and Shotwell in the semis.  While we will determine individual state champions, these two draws will also determine the team state champion.

If the KHSAA is going to name a team champion, there needs to be a seeding set up for individuals.  Or, just use state duals as the team state championship and state tournament ONLY for indivuals.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying but doesn't this begin even on a local level.  Lets face it some teams are bringing 10 or more wrestlers out of somewhat weak regions that already gives them a leg up on those teams who are only able to bring 7 or 8 wrestlers out of a tougher region.  Campbell County, Simon Kenton, Ryle, Scott, Conner and now Cooper beat each other up in Region 6 where most of those teams might win a regional in a different part of the state.  So from a team standpoint getting out of your regions with your team intact is not so easy.  Don't get me wrong a team title would be fantastic but my kid won't have nearly as big a smile as he would with gold hanging around his neck.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying but doesn't this begin even on a local level.  Lets face it some teams are bringing 10 or more wrestlers out of somewhat weak regions that already gives them a leg up on those teams who are only able to bring 7 or 8 wrestlers out of a tougher region.  Campbell County, Simon Kenton, Ryle, Scott, Conner and now Cooper beat each other up in Region 6 where most of those teams might win a regional in a different part of the state.  So from a team standpoint getting out of your regions with your team intact is not so easy.  Don't get me wrong a team title would be fantastic but my kid won't have nearly as big a smile as he would with gold hanging around his neck.

I wouldn't put cooper in that mix yet.  And sorry, Conner sucks now, they wouldn't even place top 2 in region 3.  Simon Kenton has a few good individuals but not on the level as Ryle and CC. 

Funny but look at the other regions, for the most part they have 2 real quality top 2 teams, and then it gets murky from there.

I would argue that Cooper and Simon Kenton would compete for the title in both region 3 and 8 this year.  They would at least place 2nd in both of those regions.

I also don't like the team championship argument.  I agree with ryledad. I would have much more preferred a gold or even a silver medal around my neck than the runner up team trophy our team won when I wrestled.

Again luck of the draw is much better than someone compaining about the seeding criteria, or the seeding comettee, screwing them out of the state finals.

I can't remember having these arguments about seeding when it was a 16 man bracket with a District---Region---State post season set up.

I would argue that Cooper and Simon Kenton would compete for the title in both region 3 and 8 this year.  They would at least place 2nd in both of those regions.

I also don't like the team championship argument.  I agree with ryledad. I would have much more preferred a gold or even a silver medal around my neck than the runner up team trophy our team won when I wrestled.

Again luck of the draw is much better than someone compaining about the seeding criteria, or the seeding comettee, screwing them out of the state finals.

I can't remember having these arguments about seeding when it was a 16 man bracket with a District---Region---State post season set up.

Maybe region 3 no chance region 8.  SK and Cooper would not place higher than Wayne./ Johnson Central/ Sheldon Clark.

Not to mention Whitley County.

Maybe Region 3.

I would argue that Cooper and Simon Kenton would compete for the title in both region 3 and 8 this year.  They would at least place 2nd in both of those regions.

I also don't like the team championship argument.  I agree with ryledad. I would have much more preferred a gold or even a silver medal around my neck than the runner up team trophy our team won when I wrestled.

Again luck of the draw is much better than someone compaining about the seeding criteria, or the seeding comettee, screwing them out of the state finals.

I can't remember having these arguments about seeding when it was a 16 man bracket with a District---Region---State post season set up.

OOPS!  GOO you say you would like to have that silver around your neck?  If your bracket was seeded that may have happened.

always said I would hold up two fingers if i lost in the finals. 

Oh well doesn't really matter.  Had fun competing.  The competition is much more important than the medals.  When GOO Jr. wanted to see my state medals i couldn't find one.  I found it at the bottom of my fish tank.  (Sunken treasure)  :-D

There's no perfect answer that everyone will like.  If we go back to 16 half of the potential qualifiers will not be happy they didn't make it.  I agree with seeding... but it should be based on a list of ranked criteria and run through a computer program.  I would recommend a committee look at how other states do it and propose some options to the KHSAA and Coaches to review.  You could take this year's backets and data and test it out to see how differently the bradkets/pairing would have come out.  Or it could be run parallel next year to see how it would compare to the draw as is currently done.    It would be interesting... but not sure the arguements would be any less... just different ones.

Otherwise... I think we need official recognized rankings (no offense Ranger).  Since the KHSAA doesn't recognize the rankings it makes it difficult to consence on seeding without a lot of discussion.

I thought they did use Ranger's rankings last yr?  Didn't the announcer say the kids ranking when he announced a match was close?

You are correct... they do announce them but they also qualify it by saying they are not recognized by the KHSAA.

If the KHSAA is going to name a team champion, there needs to be a seeding set up for individuals.  Or, just use state duals as the team state championship and state tournament ONLY for indivuals.

We'd have to hold a state duals first.

Great point by BigCoach.  It does matter to teams going for the team title.  And it does make a difference to a wrestler if the #2 wrestles the #1 in quarters or the finals.  Big  difference.

I could live with a 32 man bracket but would rather go back to 16.  But its not fair to not seed.  And don't give me the life isn't fair line.

As my high school coach told me,"#%|\^!, you need to do all of these better than anyone else. And, you need luck." ~ Andy Powell

I agree that we come to Frankfort to find out who is the best and not second best.  But allow me to throw out a legitmate reason why we need to seed at state tournament.

We come to NOT ONLY FIND OUT THE INDIVDUAL STATE CHAMPIONS, but we also come to name a TEAM STATE CHAMPION.

Bracketing does indeed determine the team state champion.  Let me give you two examples from just this year and how the blind draw plays a role in determining the team champion.  At 112, you have Ruschell and Fahy, by all rights, meeting in the semis.  Ruschell would be the three seed and should, if seeded get a chance to advance to finals and score points for his team by meeting Paden instead of Fahy in the semis.  Olhman has a brutal draw, meeting Sloane in the quarters and Shotwell in the semis.  While we will determine individual state champions, these two draws will also determine the team state champion.

If the KHSAA is going to name a team champion, there needs to be a seeding set up for individuals.  Or, just use state duals as the team state championship and state tournament ONLY for indivuals.

So what you are saying is we need to seed the tournament to have a true Team Champion, and like i said before the only way to do this is to seed all 32 wrestlers. Every point counts and to make it fare for all teams to place as high as they can we need to seed everyone, not just the top 4 or 8. Also it wouldn't matter where you place at regions, you could end up with all four placers in the same side of the bracket at state if that is the way the seeding fell. Then if someone droped out then you would have to change the whole bracket.