who will win state duals and state tournament next year

woodford

woodford

I dunno how good woodford will be next year,they lost alot of seniors and that should affect their line-up for next year..but they always have a good team...larue could give woodford a run next year.....

What you're doing is assuming one of those two teams would win it. One could make a strong case for Fern Creek.

What you're doing is assuming one of those two teams would win it. One could make a strong case for Fern Creek.

I agree Fern Creek will be very good. They have a lot of guys that were likely disappointed in their finish and will be working hard to prove themselves next year. BUT Larue and Woodford will both be right there with them. Right now I think it is a dead heat, depending on weight changes and how well Larue and Woodford fill the shoes of their departing seniors.

I wouldn't count Union County and Harrison County out of the mix either. North Hardin is returning most all of their best kids as well. As for LaRue, we should have one of the more experienced teams we've ever had with four returning medalists and probably seven senior starters. Stacey and Ozzie will be sorely missed; however, 125 and 130 are usually easy weight classes for us to fill. We need a heavyweight (which seems like we always do) and we will definitely need some kids to step it up next year that didn't this year. I look for improved parity at the State tournament next year the likes of which we ain't seen in a long time. I don't expect that whoever does win it next year will run away with it like WC has recently and CC in 04.

Your right HP! This season could shape up to be very close race between 5-10 teams. When next years seniors were 8th graders (2003), the middle school tournament was won by an incredibly close margin by Woodford over Fern Creek. I couldnt find the scores on the KYSWA site, (it has a link to the 2003 results but it brings up 2004), but I remember it was very close like the difference of a pin or a decision in one match for Woodford.

Alot has changed in 4 years and alot can happen over the course of a season, but alot is the same too! I think there will be alot more teams in the hunt next season.

What i like about Fern Creek next year as a team, is they'll have 2-3 state champs (Wood, Jackson, Wolsiefer). Jackson is a big maybe, thats why i say 2-3. I think Wood will have something to prove to himself ... most great wrestlers would feel that way even if they finished 8th cause they were hurt. Wolsiefer is Wolsiefer ... and is capable of beating anyone next year ... which makes him one of the guys i'm counting fom them. They need a little more from the rest of the guys, but they were young this year and i expect they'll get it.

Thats roughly what Woodford will have, and will be more than what LaRue will have (Banks maybe).

When it comes to Harrison Co, they're good ... but they finished right about where i called them this year ... around 10th. Ross is gone this year, so even if the other guys step up it comes out about the same.

I agree this will be the closest team race in years. In addition to Woodford and CC running off with it, South Oldham did in 03 if i remember. One could argue South Oldham was more dominant than Woodford that year, i believe they had like 12-13 guys PLACE and scored 257.

I agree this will be the closest team race in years. In addition to Woodford and CC running off with it' date=' South Oldham did in 03 if i remember. One could argue South Oldham was more dominant than Woodford that year, i believe they had like 12-13 guys PLACE and scored 257.[/quote']

Yes, that South Oldham team was bad. 13 placers, #14 went 2-2, and 257 points pretty much speaks for itself. That is by far the best team I have seen in KY.

yea i would have to agree fern creeks team was young this year next year will have a dominant amount of juniors and a couple seniors....

but none the less we still have a long way to go b4 we can say were as good as we could be....woodford, larue,south oldham all will still either beat us or put up 1 hell of a fight it will be close in every case..... the state is still up 4 grabs as always.....

LaRue Co. has 11 juniors stepping up to the plate as seniors next year. lets see a team match that! 8)

Yeah, one might argue South Oldham in 2003 was the best single season team ever from Ky. Campbell Co came out the very next year and dominated state scoring 234 points with nearly the same exact team they got routed by South Oldham with in 2003.

Woodford vs. Larue vs. Fern Creek

Woodford:

9 returning qualifiers

5 returning state placers

3 returning state champs

Larue:

11 returning qualifiers

5 returning state placers

0 returning state champs

Fern Creek:

10 returning qualifiers

4 returning state placers

1 returning state champ

Take your pick (Woodford all the way)

Woodford is replacing their seniors with new people, Fern Creek is actually going to have a full lineup next year and probably a more complete team than Woodford or Larue will be next year.

Monkeyroll,

What you ignore is if Wood had likely not been hurt, you'd possibly have Fern Creek ONE short in the champ and returning placer count. Had Jackson made weight, they'd be tied with Woodford in the placers department probably.

With the Jackson factor, worst case scenario for Fern Creek even had Wood not won is probably as follows ...

Woodford:

9 returning qualifiers

5 returning state placers

3 returning state champs

Larue:

11 returning qualifiers

5 returning state placers

0 returning state champs

Fern Creek:

11 returning qualifiers

5 returning state placers

1 returning state champ

That doesn't really look like a walk by Woodford reconsidered in those terms ... now does it ?

By the way, being able to sensibly give Fern Creek a chance at winning it all based on the stat sheet has me excited as a fan. I like seeing new blood in this hunt.

I'm no Psychic nor am i flawless. But i'm not scared to go ahead and say that malcom jackson is no maybe at all. I see him winning state next year at whatever weight he goes. I'm about 95% sure he'll go undefeated as well. Not making excuses by any means, but after seeing him wrestle peace he left no doubt in my mind he'd have probably won it this year, he was my pic atleast. ( But still props to ozzy, winning state is an accomplishment thats not contradictable). Top 3 teams are all really close i would say. Woodford is a very tough team year in and year out, but Larue returns very many wrestlers as well as fern creek does. Possible state champs/ finalists for Fern Creek next year : Wolsiefer** Wood* Jackson** Stewart and and possibly Burkett.

Throw Chaney in there also

I'm no Psychic nor am i flawless. But i'm not scared to go ahead and say that malcom jackson is no maybe at all. I see him winning state next year at whatever weight he goes. I'm about 95% sure he'll go undefeated as well. Not making excuses by any means' date=' but after seeing him wrestle peace he left no doubt in my mind he'd have probably won it this year, he was my pic atleast. ( But still props to ozzy, winning state is an accomplishment thats not contradictable). Top 3 teams are all really close i would say. Woodford is a very tough team year in and year out, but Larue returns very many wrestlers as well as fern creek does. Possible state champs/ finalists for Fern Creek next year : Wolsiefer** Wood* Jackson** Stewart and and possibly Burkett.[/quote']

As i mentioned before, Jackson was lucky to beat Bowlds that same day he beat Peace .. Bowlds was beating him and Jackson rolled him to his back and pinned him. And THAT SAME DAY, Peace thrashed Bowlds .. and i mean bad. At state Peace comfortably beat Butler, and Jackson lost to Butler at WCI. I think he also lost to Bowlds earlier in the year. Rust also took Jackson to the limit (4-3 Jackson) at the duels and Peace beat Rust 3 times .. granted all 3 were close matches. The same day Peace lost to Jackson Peace beat Howard ... who took Parker to the limit that same day ... would Jackson mangle both of them too considering all this went down on the same day ?

Here's my two cents based on all that data. It was a good win for Jackson over Peace, but everything BUT that match points at Peace being better ... in as many matches as one wrestles in a season you're gonna have a clunker somewhere. Maybe Peace chose his against a great wrestler and paid for it ... or maybe Jackson wrestled the best of his life ... either is plausible. By the end of the match, Peace was scoring at will on Jackson ... but maybe he was sitting on his lead. Regardless, Jackson would have to beat Peace with authority again in my mind to garner the predictions you make with the certainty you've made them. And i don't see him handling Peace, Jackson will have done well to just win the match.

I will count Jackson as top 5 though next year, and a top 8 definitely. He's a contender, and a very good wrester who will be amongst the top 5 vying for the title in his class. However, based on results quoted above there's no way i think one can say Jackson will certainly win it wherever he goes though.

And if Jackson reads this, the length and detail is because i'm intrigued by that match with Peace in light of all the results throughout that day since he beat another stud in Howard and got smoked by jackson. I'm not trying to bring you down in the least, and best of luck to you next year. After all ... i'm excited about Fern Creek being a contender as i previously stated !!

Jackson only lost to Butler because of an injury. They just didn't have any other opportunities to wrestle him again to show that he could beat him.

Ok ... fair enough.

I agree 100% with invincy it wouldnt surprise me one bit if Malcolm won state next year as well as going undefeated. He is probally the hardest worker i have ever known and he is my pick to win at what ever weight he goes.

Yea i would have 2 agree with no doubt in my mind out of all the sports ive ever seen malcolm is the hardest worker ive ever met. He's a good friend of mine yes and we talk everyday but that has nothing 2 do with my opinion on malcolm he works harder than any1 i know....i cant say he could win at whatever weight class he goes but i can say that he will put up one hell of a fight for the title.....

Yea i would have 2 agree with no doubt in my mind out of all the sports ive ever seen malcolm is the hardest worker ive ever met. He's a good friend of mine yes and we talk everyday but that has nothing 2 do with my opinion on malcolm he works harder than any1 i know....i cant say he could win at whatever weight class he goes but i can say that he will put up one hell of a fight for the title.....

Great post !

thanks alot just my opion

I only have one comment on all of this talk about Jackson. STATE CHAMPS DON"T MISS WEIGHT!! I am not doubting that he is a hard worker, but it to me it makes it hard to believe this when he does not make weight, for a regional tournament.

No matter how good an individual is, not making wt. for the regional tournament tells me that there is something wrong here. Fear, lack or confidence, lack of dicipline, or lack of dedication. All of this is needed to be a state champion, let alone an undefeated state champion.

Once again I am not doubting that he is a good wrestler, I just have some doubt about his dedication.

I agree with that last comment. You have to be disciplined to be a Champ. I dont think Jackson could keep it within a major decision against Peace (if they wrestled again), Howard, and Ozzy. I think Ozzy would smash him, and im not saying that just cuz im from LaRue. I just think the way that Ozzy's wrestles is to funky for Jackson to overcome. I don't think Jackson is fundamentally sound either, but if he can sharpen up his technique then i do think he will be a pretty darn good wrestler.

I don't know his weight situation, but he looked to be a big 130 pounder. Perhaps he was cutting more weight than he should have been cause he didn't want to bump the 135 pounder and it caught up with him. Just trying to think up a good reason.

If i was on the guy's team, and he missed his weight for a reason that wasn't good ESPECIALLY at regions i would be really mad at him. And these two guys obviously from Fern Creek don't seem angry with him in the least. Thus, i'm guessing maybe there's something goofy about what happened that we don't know about and shouldn't pass judgement on (though i'm curious).

So i wouldn't make my own conjecture on that. I think he wouldn't get majored by Peace, Peace is somewhat a control wrestler with a 4 point loss to him equating to losing by 8 to some guys. But i won't dispute what you're saying about Parker or Howard with respect to the major (next year who knows). They're both pretty unorthodox and at least Parker is pretty agressive.

I don't know his weight situation' date=' but he looked to be a big 130 pounder. Perhaps he was cutting more weight than he should have been cause he didn't want to bump the 135 pounder and it caught up with him. Just trying to think up a good reason.

If i was on the guy's team, and he missed his weight for a reason that wasn't good ESPECIALLY at regions i would be really mad at him. And these two guys obviously from Fern Creek don't seem angry with him in the least. Thus, i'm guessing maybe there's something goofy about what happened that we don't know about and shouldn't pass judgement on (though i'm curious).

So i wouldn't make my own conjecture on that. I think he wouldn't get majored by Peace, Peace is somewhat a control wrestler with a 4 point loss to him equating to losing by 8 to some guys. But i won't dispute what you're saying about Parker or Howard with respect to the major (next year who knows). They're both pretty unorthodox and at least Parker is pretty agressive.[/quote']

Good points and if it was anybody but Malcolm I think folks would have been more upset, Malcolm was the most upset of anyone. But you gotta know we love Malcolm, not just because hes a great kid, but a great teammate too! Hes the guy that always is looking out for everyone else, your talking bout a kid who wrestled 119 the year before by running at 6:00 AM most mornings and then again after practice to make weight. Malcolm does everything he is asked to do and then some, hes one of the best leaders on the team, sometimes 16yr olds kids make mistakes, he will come back next year working harder than ever, and will hopefully get another shot!

I think people were disappointed instead of mad, but not because the team would miss his points but because he was going to miss his chance at state. He had positioned himself for a top 5 finish and thats being humble. I wont go thru the "who beat who" argument again, anyone who followed his weight class knew he would have to be reckoned with to get to the finals. He may not have won or he might have but he had wrestled well enough this season to have earned his ranking.

One interesting thing about Malcolm is that last year he struggled all season to keep his weight at 119 and at times looked like his conditioning suffered due to trying to maintain his weight. So during the off season he wrestled his normal weight about 135lbs and smoked everyone and looked alot better with his conditioning. This year while he moved up to a more natural weight of 130lbs, he wrestled great but probably would have been more comfortable at 135 or even 140, it will be interesting to see where he goes next year he may bump up a few wt classes.

No offense to any one at all... But pull out your pens and Mark my words "Malcom Jackson will win state next year". This is the last thing i'll say because i dont want to drag this out.

In response to previous posts... Ozzy parker is quick, strong and has a good shot, however he doesn't set his shot up well enough, he just jumped right in. Malcom sets his shots much better. Also, i would have to think that ozzy and malcolm are quite exactly the same type of wrestlers. Not much of difference in style. Honestly though, i don't think the talk here should be ozzy parker, it should be Howard vs. Jackson. Thats the real matchup next year if they meet.

IN response to the weight issue: Malcolm was cutting 25 pounds to get to 30 and we all know he has no body fat. Problem was he was too modest to tell the coaches he was having difficulty, no excuses for the situation, But Malcolm is a wonderfull kid and the BEST reason i claim so boldly that he will win state next year is because he works EXTREMELY HARD. I don't mean to offend anyone by anymeans, but you can tell which kids will win state by thier work ethic ( derek scott- obviously a very hard working state champ) ( also I knew Murner was going to beat voth just by the way he worked his but off in every shot attemp at state). I see clearly the same work ethic in jackson.

I was just thinking ... maybe this thread should have been renamed ? 8)

yea i know the way this post is writing its self out it shoud had ferncreek somewere in the title or Malcolm Jackson would have became a suitable title dont you think?

I apologise for the topic change. And I in no way wanted to offend Jacksons wrestling ability. I was just giving my opinion on what makes a state champion. (Hard work, dedication, discipline, and a no-fear attitude)

I hope next year Jackson doesn't cut that much wt. (Which I'm guessing he weighs around 160 now, and would put him at 145, 152 next year) and wrestles tough.

He'll be in the range of 140-152.

Don't worry about it, i think i'm the one responsible for the topic change ... i was the first to bring up fern creek !

I think people are taking too much away from Woodford based on what they lost.

Richard Starks is a big loss. Chad Fyffe is also a tough loss, but was only here for a year. Rusty would have been one, but he didn't wrestle that much his senior year and WC still dominated. John Smith is another, but he was unable to place even in his senior year. Goodrich is also a state champ, but bumping Byrd to heavyweight (or perhaps putting Neal at heavyweight and keeping Byrd 215) should keep WC strong up top.

There is no other major loss on Woodford's team aside from that. What do they return?

Shane Parks - third place at 103; great shot at state title if he bumps up or can defeat Sullivan.

Coty Lewis - three-time state finalist will definitely be there again.

Harrison Courtney - I don't think much needs to be said here. Courtney was a big fave in '04 and took third, then came back this year and won state. It's not the last you'll hear of him.

Will Starks - I expect to see him continue to follow in Richard's footsteps: undefeated in Kentucky junior year and state champ, followed by undefeated senior season and state champ.

Matt Byrd - a car accident in the fall really hurt Byrd's chances this year; I expect to see him come back even tougher next year.

Then you look at guys like Steven Butler and Blake Sheehan, who were one match away from placing this year and should be even stronger with another year of training under the Carrs, or a guy like Justin Mays, who's got a great amount of potential. Factor in the tremendous coaching and I just don't see WC not being the favorite heading into next year.

i hate to say it, but i agree with you...barring major injuries or other issues, woodford looks like they will repeat. everyone else is just chasing them.

I think people are taking too much away from Woodford based on what they lost.

Richard Starks is a big loss. Chad Fyffe is also a tough loss' date=' but was only here for a year. Rusty would have been one, but he didn't wrestle that much his senior year and WC still dominated. John Smith is another, but he was unable to place even in his senior year. Goodrich is also a state champ, but bumping Byrd to heavyweight (or perhaps putting Neal at heavyweight and keeping Byrd 215) should keep WC strong up top.

There is no other major loss on Woodford's team aside from that. What do they return?

Shane Parks - third place at 103; great shot at state title if he bumps up or can defeat Sullivan.

Coty Lewis - three-time state finalist will definitely be there again.

Harrison Courtney - I don't think much needs to be said here. Courtney was a big fave in '04 and took third, then came back this year and won state. It's not the last you'll hear of him.

Will Starks - I expect to see him continue to follow in Richard's footsteps: undefeated in Kentucky junior year and state champ, followed by undefeated senior season and state champ.

Matt Byrd - a car accident in the fall really hurt Byrd's chances this year; I expect to see him come back even tougher next year.

Then you look at guys like Steven Butler and Blake Sheehan, who were one match away from placing this year and should be even stronger with another year of training under the Carrs, or a guy like Justin Mays, who's got a great amount of potential. Factor in the tremendous coaching and I just don't see WC not being the favorite heading into next year.[/quote']

I have thought about it a little more and somewhat agree. Here's how I see it right now, 11 months away: Woodford, Fern Creek, Larue

And here is my reasoning. I have 4 categories of wrestlers (having little idea how the weights/brackets might fall).

A - Great chance at the title

B - Small shot at the title, finals contender, definite placer

C - Should place

D - may contribute to the cause

Woodford - 4 A (Lewis, Courtney, Starks, Byrd), 1 B (Parks), 4 C (Butler, Scott, Sheehan, Mays), 1 D (Neal - don't know much about him)

Fern Creek - 2 A (Wood, Wolsiefer), 2 B (Jackson, Chaney - 215 will be very deep), 4 C (Burkett, Branch, Stewart, Barger), 3 D (Warren - needs to make 103, Mann, Hardin)

Larue - 1 A (Banks), 3 B (Miller, Wheeler, Embree - stretch), 5 C (Carmen, Perez, Smith, Barnhill, Shipp), 3 D (Hines, Henderson - needs to make 103, Daniels)

The big key will be which new guys step in and contribute. I still say it is very, very close. BUT, given their history, Woodford seems to find a way to step it up big when it comes state tournament time. Based on that, I give them the tie-breaker edge.