So it was announced that the KHSAA was 100% sure the tournament would be held at Frankfort Convention Center again next year. They were accepting bids for 2011 but they mentioned that the Convention Center was looking very likely.

What do you think? Suggestions?

I love the atmosphere, but I really think we need to have more mats (at least 6) and more breaks between rounds! I saw at least 3 or 4 injuries occur simply because there was not enough room around the mat (Harlow ran into the steel bars, Lee slammed onto the hardwood, and a couple other wrestlers landed on the hard wood).

Concessions... don't even get me started, there's already a whole other thread for that!

I think another place would be good and go to two days with 6 mats.  But there aren't many places that would hold the mats and then the rental of it is always a cost problem and very few cities that could hold that many people in hotels.

How about the place at the KY Horse Park?  That was suggested at the coaches meeting.  How big is it?  How much would it cost?  If it could hold six mats then it could be made into a 2 day tournament... I think.

Someone needs to take a look into padding the concrete "curb" that circles the floor. In my opinion, this "curb" has the potential of causing serious injury to wrestlers if they were to fall on it. It does have some padding, but the area padded is very small. So someone is aware that the potential to injury does indeed exist.

How about the place at the KY Horse Park?  That was suggested at the coaches meeting.  How big is it?  How much would it cost?  If it could hold six mats then it could be made into a 2 day tournament... I think.

Yeah the Horse Park was mentioned... I think it'd be an awesome location. It's a $36 million dollar arena and seats 6k people.

Here's some pics

maybe its just me, but i love it being in frankfort. i've been attending the State Tournament since 1999, and i can't imagine it being anywhere else. think about the atmosphere during saturday, the pre-finals hoopla party, and how awesome the arena is during finals. The Civic Center may have it's draw-backs, but when it comes to finals, and the atmosphere period, its the best arena around.

I don't think the tournament should move from Frankfort. The only place I can really think of the US Bank Arena in northern Kentucky, but people from the southern part of the state wouldn't like that long of a trek north.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Frankfort pretty central for everybody?

What about Freedom Hall, they will be looking for business in the very near future. Plenty of hotels and places to eat and a facility that will hold as many mats as you like.

That would be too big in my opinion...a better location in Louisville would be broadbent arena.  It seats like 10-12 thousand I believe but could still hold 6 mats I think. 

What about Freedom Hall, they will be looking for business in the very near future. Plenty of hotels and places to eat and a facility that will hold as many mats as you like.

Freedom Hall is NOT looking for any business.  The reason that U of L wanted their own arena is that Freedom Hall is booked 365 days per year with several events running at one time.  U of L could not get in there for games in November or February because of horse shows and tractor shows.

If you take it back to a 16 man bracket you don't need more mats.  They added 16 more people to pay for the convention center.  Its all to get the dollar bill out of your pocket.  Yes its a great place to host but guess what....  we can't afford it.  So then I guess we do without. 

It wasn't taken to a 32 man bracket to pay for the center.  It was done to try and up the sport(right or wrong is another story).  I don't think they would have a problem with it being 2 day tournament, actually khsaa and the individual school systems want that so one less day of school is missed.  But the facility can't hold more than 4 mats so it has to be 3 days.  If a cheap facility was found that could hold 6 mats I think you would find it going to 2 days real quick.

If you take it back to a 16 man bracket you don't need more mats.  They added 16 more people to pay for the convention center.  Its all to get the dollar bill out of your pocket.  Yes its a great place to host but guess what....  we can't afford it.  So then I guess we do without. 

EKU's Alumni Hall would be a great place. It can hold 6 mats, it has a larger seating capacity, still centrally located, and experienced area for holding tournaments (All-A Classic). The cost may not be too high due to the exposure the University would get. Richmond has tons of restaurants and hotels and is easily accesible right off of I-75. Just a thought.

Not sure leaving Frankfort is the best idea, however:

-- New arena at NKU (the Bank of Kentucky Center). Beautiful. Plenty of hotels and restaurants. And in a wrestling-loving area:

-- New area in Corbin. Area is wrestling crazy, and being in a smaller area, they may go all-out to showcase a big-time event. Drawback is travel for most teams. Not many great hotels and restaurants.

-- Pikeville (East KY Expo Center). Travel would be an issue for a lot of folks, same as hotels and restaurant availability.

-- Broadbent or Kentucky International Convention Center. Going to Louisville would be closer for a lot of teams, and no shortage of hotels and restaurants. Moving back to Louisville would increase media coverage (especially by the four major TV stations in Louisville). Freedom Hall would be way too big (it would feel empty). Broadbent is older (much like Frankfort). And the Louisvillle Gardens is older too, but is plenty big enough and would give the tourney an old-time feel.

-- New Horsepark Arena or Memorial Coliseum at UK. Lexington is decent wrestling area. Plenty of hotels, restaurants and media coverage. Fairly centrally located. Rupp would be way too big.

I have seen the venue in Corbin and it is really nice. I do not agree with putting the state in 2 days, but the 6 mats would be the main priority. I came from Tennessee where 6 mats covered the UTC Arena and did great. KY had just over 4K fans watching the tourny. I think Corbin would be the best fit. I know it is all about $$$$.

Consessions............I think I can speak for everyone in the state that it was bad.

the civic center in frankfort is free for the state tournament so if it is moved to another location and the khsaa has to pay then expect ticket prices to increase

what is the scheduled dates for state in 2011?

maybe its just me, but i love it being in frankfort. i've been attending the State Tournament since 1999, and i can't imagine it being anywhere else. think about the atmosphere during saturday, the pre-finals hoopla party, and how awesome the arena is during finals. The Civic Center may have it's draw-backs, but when it comes to finals, and the atmosphere period, its the best arena around.

I agree

the concrete curbs and or the uncovered rails are eventually going to cause a major problem if they are not covered better and  what is the cost of a law suit?

Louisville gardens are set to be demolished. Just for your info

Ive got to call it like it is here boys, it comes down to money. 4 mats at State??? Really. The first day is a joke, its so drawn out and things take forever.

In my opinion what is good for the sport of wrestling in KY is not being done and actions to make it better aren't either. Ive read other post on KY wrestling moving forward in the state. OK a few kids travel and go places and those are the kids that come back and dominate in KY.  There is still a select group of middle schools and high school that excel above others and its pretty much been the same ones and will continue to be.

Third, again in my opinion, taking away district region state weakened our state tournament and lowered the level of competition. Make it like it was earning your way to state instead of just handing out free rides cause there aren't enough kids to fill the bracket. Idk, theres a lot to fix here and I feel nothing is being done to take strides forward, maybe just maybe a snails pace if your lucky. 

I think it's funny how everyone is worried about advancing the sport in KY...it is farther than it was 15 years ago, but is never going to get to the likes of Indiana, Ohio, Florida, etc.  There just are not that many kids in high school for one compared to those states and not as many schools.  The upper level kids are getting better in KY there is no doubt about that and I think that other schools are better than what they used to be too.  If state is 2 days or 3 days it makes no difference to the quality of the wrestlers that win it.  If you go back to district, region, state it wouldn't advance the sport in this state any, it would be a minor decision that noone outside of the state would even care or notice!  If it gets a few more kids to participate because they stand a chance to go to state then good.  What if football went to only 3 divisions for schools, do you think it would affect the quality of the top teams that win state...no.  But it would make a few schools not stand a chance to be able to compete for a state title because they are in a division with some powerhouses.  When it comes down to it, the way to advance the sport in this state is to try and keep all the kids that graduate involved in the sport by either, refereeing, coaching and continue to compete.  It would be good if more youth teams could get started in different parts of the state, that is where you will start to see the advancement of the sport, not with high school.  By then it is too late.  Just my .02

Ive got to call it like it is here boys, it comes down to money. 4 mats at State??? Really. The first day is a joke, its so drawn out and things take forever.

In my opinion what is good for the sport of wrestling in KY is not being done and actions to make it better aren't either. Ive read other post on KY wrestling moving forward in the state. OK a few kids travel and go places and those are the kids that come back and dominate in KY.  There is still a select group of middle schools and high school that excel above others and its pretty much been the same ones and will continue to be.

Third, again in my opinion, taking away district region state weakened our state tournament and lowered the level of competition. Make it like it was earning your way to state instead of just handing out free rides cause there aren't enough kids to fill the bracket. Idk, theres a lot to fix here and I feel nothing is being done to take strides forward, maybe just maybe a snails pace if your lucky. 

EKU's Alumni Hall would be a great place. It can hold 6 mats, it has a larger seating capacity, still centrally located, and experienced area for holding tournaments (All-A Classic). The cost may not be too high due to the exposure the University would get. Richmond has tons of restaurants and hotels and is easily accessible right off of I-75. Just a thought.

It's Alumni Coliseum, but yes Savage it is a far superior venue than Frankfort. The main floor can hold 6 mats and they have an auxiliary gym that is just as big. It would be perfect for warm up. the seating is elevated so there isn't a problem with sight lines to a mat.

It has been mentioned before to go there.  The problems that were previous stated were the cost to rent it, current rent is free, and some stated there weren't enough hotels in the area that would be able to support it.  Another was that the high school that does all the running for the tickets, is franklin county? not sure.  They wouldn't be there to do it since it wasn't their city so who would take that over?  Is there a high school near EKU that has wrestling?

It's Alumni Coliseum, but yes Savage it is a far superior venue than Frankfort. The main floor can hold 6 mats and they have an auxiliary gym that is just as big. It would be perfect for warm up. the seating is elevated so there isn't a problem with sight lines to a mat.

It has been mentioned before to go there.  The problems that were previous stated were the cost to rent it, current rent is free, and some stated there weren't enough hotels in the area that would be able to support it.  Another was that the high school that does all the running for the tickets, is franklin county? not sure.  They wouldn't be there to do it since it wasn't their city so who would take that over?  Is there a high school near EKU that has wrestling?

Madison Central has wrestling. I'm not sure but Wes (old PLD coach) was down there as the head coach.

Frankfort is a great place.  I think the concessions really turned a lot of people off this year. The boys love Frankfort and no one has an extremely long trip. I think it should stay but GET A BETTER FOOD VENDOR.

It has been mentioned before to go there.  The problems that were previous stated were the cost to rent it, current rent is free, and some stated there weren't enough hotels in the area that would be able to support it.  Another was that the high school that does all the running for the tickets, is franklin county? not sure.  They wouldn't be there to do it since it wasn't their city so who would take that over?  Is there a high school near EKU that has wrestling?

Richmond has grown substantially in the last several years for anyone that hasn't been here in a while. If there was an issue with hotels and restaurants in the past, it most certainly wouldn't be an issue any longer.

Madison Central has wrestling. I'm not sure but Wes (old PLD coach) was down there as the head coach.

And yes Madison Central has a team, we also have a middle school team that is getting larger each season and about to split into two separate teams, our youth team had close to 50 kids this year, and Madison Southern is supposed to be starting a high school team next year as well.

Wes Watts(former Dunbar coach) IS the coach for Central and Gene Wolf (former Franklin coach in the early 90s) is our Wrestling Director so to speak. So there would definitely be enough people in Richmond to support the event.

Once again..just a though.

After being transferred from Ohio to Kentucky, I was appalled that the state tournament was held in a high school gym. I have come to believe that the Frankfort site is perfect. I agree the food was awful this year but, the only reason it should be moved is when we sell it out. Watching the finals again last night was an affirmation of this thought.

The annoucers on the webcast were lacking in their nowledge of the sport as well as being familiar with the competitors. But, they knew they were in for a show. The venue's size has a lot to do with that.

where can you rewatch it?

you can watch it again on ihigh.com

Freedom Hall will be empty next year, University of Louisville Basketball is moving to the new arena. and Freedom hall could definitely hold the mats.

Freedom Hall will be empty next year, University of Louisville Basketball is moving to the new arena. and Freedom hall could definitely hold the mats.

Holding state wrestling in Freedom Hall would be like holding girls' hoops or girls' volleyball in Rupp or high school football at Commonwealth: Can't afford it. Can't fill it.

Bigger (in these cases the biggest or next-to-biggest in the state) does not mean better in certain cases.

I like Freedom Hall. Go there 10+ times a year for UofL basketball.

Not sure KHSAA wrestling would fill it or could afford the rent.

Would be a LOT closer for me, though.

Holding state wrestling in Freedom Hall would be like holding girls' hoops or girls' volleyball in Rupp or high school football at Commonwealth: Can't afford it. Can't fill it.

Bigger (in these cases the biggest or next-to-biggest in the state) does not mean better in certain cases.

I like Freedom Hall. Go there 10+ times a year for UofL basketball.

Not sure KHSAA wrestling would fill it or could afford the rent.

Would be a LOT closer for me, though.

High school football at commonewealth?  Stx/ Trinity would fill it just fine.

Olympic_wish,

WKU has a nice football stadium and it's not that far from Louisville (straight down I-65). X and T didn't come remotely close to filling WKU in 2009.

http://www.khsaa.org/football/2009/6afinal.htm

Attendance: 9962

Just because ONE specific football game might fill half of Commonwealth doesn't mean the other classes should be held there. Plus, if folks are NOT willing to make the easy drive down 65 to BG, you really think 30,000+ will drive 80 miles to Commonwealth?

I have my doubts.

Olympic_wish,

WKU has a nice football stadium and it's not that far from Louisville (straight down I-65). X and T didn't come remotely close to filling WKU in 2009.

http://www.khsaa.org/football/2009/6afinal.htm

Attendance: 9962

Just because ONE specific football game might fill half of Commonwealth doesn't mean the other classes should be held there. Plus, if folks are NOT willing to make the easy drive down 65 to BG, you really think 30,000+ will drive 80 miles to Commonwealth?

I have my doubts.

Yeah, I have to agree with Nathaniel on this one.  St. X vs. Trinity didn't come close to filling Papa John's in 2007 for the Class 6A final and that obviously was in Louisville.  I like the atmosphere in Frankfurt, but just hate some of the amenities there.  As I said, the atmosphere is a plus, so to is the free parking.  But wrestling on 4 mats, the seating and the food are all terrible.

The parking issue was one of the primary problems, in my opinion.  I didn't like the concession food, so I didn't eat it...not so lucky about the parking.  It doesn't seem wise to seek a larger host simply because it is larger.  We did not quite fill-up the Frankfort arena.  The six mat issue would be a good reason to change the venue.  I would love to see the state tournament return to Louisville, but I think the new Valley High School gymnasium would be the right move.  From what I understand, the Valley gym will hold around 5,200, and it will be property easily accessed by JCPS / KHSAA.  Not sure when it is scheduled for completion, but the talk is that ground-breaking is right around the corner.  Anyone have better details about the new mega-gym? 

I will say that I enjoy reading about the various middle and elementary programs around the state.  That is awesome, and I hope my school can eventually make a place for youth wrestling. 

Please do not mention sending it back to a high school again. I don't care if it is a "mega" whatever. It is a step backwards. There are no hotels within winter walking distance on Dixie HWY.

I agree That going back to a hihg school lessens the tournament.  The next thing you know, we'll be calling ot off for snow problems

I agree tilt and oldwrestler, but I also cannot be naive about the decision to build such a huge facility.  I imagine both JCPS and KHSAA see some benefit in building this gym, (i.e. high school events, etc), otherwise it wouldn't be built.  If I had my way, we would stay at Frankfort, but see that some of these other issues get dealt with (parking, concessions, etc.).  What I don't want is for the event to go to a new venue and it look pitiful because KY wrestling can't adequately fill it up.  Venue should be 5k - 6k for now, and hopefully in the next five to ten years we are forced to move for more space again. 

Olympic_wish,

WKU has a nice football stadium and it's not that far from Louisville (straight down I-65). X and T didn't come remotely close to filling WKU in 2009.

http://www.khsaa.org/football/2009/6afinal.htm

Attendance: 9962

Just because ONE specific football game might fill half of Commonwealth doesn't mean the other classes should be held there. Plus, if folks are NOT willing to make the easy drive down 65 to BG, you really think 30,000+ will drive 80 miles to Commonwealth?

I have my doubts.

Hey i'm not proppoing i tup as the venue, and you seem to forget the state champ game isnt the one i'm talking about, i'm talking about the annual Stx Trinity game reg season.  Ask a X./ Tri grad, thats the one they goto

Hey i'm not proppoing i tup as the venue, and you seem to forget the state champ game isnt the one i'm talking about, i'm talking about the annual Stx Trinity game reg season.  Ask a X./ Tri grad, thats the one they goto

Fan base 

The 59 St. Xavier-Trinity football games have drawn nearly 1.3 million fans. Top drawing games:

Attendance 

2004 37,500

1998 37,252

2001 36,500

2003 35,800

Olympic_wish,

Sure the X-T regular season game would do well in Commonwealth ... but it would still roughly be half empty.

PJCS was just remodeled/expanded and there will be tons of empty seats next time the X-T face off is held there.

Plus, why would X-T move all the way to Lexington? The further away from the Ville, the less fans in attendance.

Moving it to another high school would be horrible.  The last time we had it at a High school the school did not even have wrestling.  No disrespect to Valley but the wrestling team at Valley is not top notch.  It has improved over the years but as a whole they are not a top notch program.  Do they even fill a full team?  And if so how many times in the last 10 years have they had a full team? 

With that said I still would not want the tournament at a high school even if it was a team the caliber of Woodford Co. or Trinity.  A high school venue is a HUGE step backwards.

Yeah, I have to agree with Nathaniel on this one.  St. X vs. Trinity didn't come close to filling Papa John's in 2007 for the Class 6A final and that obviously was in Louisville.  I like the atmosphere in Frankfurt, but just hate some of the amenities there.  As I said, the atmosphere is a plus, so to is the free parking.  But wrestling on 4 mats, the seating and the food are all terrible.

Me thinks one may be neglecting the temperature that day. And, speculate what the attendance would have been if say Henderson County and Paul Dunbar would've been the 6A title game.

I think it's funny how everyone is worried about advancing the sport in KY...it is farther than it was 15 years ago, but is never going to get to the likes of Indiana, Ohio, Florida, etc.  There just are not that many kids in high school for one compared to those states and not as many schools.  The upper level kids are getting better in KY there is no doubt about that and I think that other schools are better than what they used to be too.  If state is 2 days or 3 days it makes no difference to the quality of the wrestlers that win it.  If you go back to district, region, state it wouldn't advance the sport in this state any, it would be a minor decision that noone outside of the state would even care or notice!  If it gets a few more kids to participate because they stand a chance to go to state then good.  What if football went to only 3 divisions for schools, do you think it would affect the quality of the top teams that win state...no.  But it would make a few schools not stand a chance to be able to compete for a state title because they are in a division with some powerhouses.  When it comes down to it, the way to advance the sport in this state is to try and keep all the kids that graduate involved in the sport by either, refereeing, coaching and continue to compete.  It would be good if more youth teams could get started in different parts of the state, that is where you will start to see the advancement of the sport, not with high school.  By then it is too late.  Just my .02

I agree growth starts at the Youth level.  You want growth, look at the history of wrestling in the big wrestling states.  Youth programs have and continue to create legions of new fans as well as many generations of wrestling families.  Youth wrestling has experienced phenomenal growth in Ky with teams from all over the state becoming dramatically more competitive.  Just 4 years ago Conner held a state tournament with barely over 200 kids, JC was next at about 450, Fern Creek-600, and this year's tournament had 800.  Any High School coach that isn't promoting Youth programs is missing the boat and will be left behind. 

Me thinks one may be neglecting the temperature that day. And, speculate what the attendance would have been if say Henderson County and Paul Dunbar would've been the 6A title game.

    Me thinks, me wasn't or whatever the hell you're saying.  Anyway, the bottom line is that St. X / Trinity couldn't fill Papa John's on one of the two biggest days of the high school football season (regardless of the temperature) and the venue was less than 15 minutes away from both schools.  I'm not trying to insult either school b/c 15K fans at a football game is fairly impressive so don't take it the wrong way.  I have much respect for both schools especially they're wrestling coaches.  Both are quality coaches and individuals.  Anyway, yes Dunbar vs. Henderson Co would have far less fans, but what does that have to do with what I was saying?

    Point being what both myself and Nathaniel (I believe) are saying is that bigger isn't necessarily better.  Frankfurt is a good place atmosphere-wise to host the tournament.  Move it to a venue twice the size or even bigger such as Freedom Hall and you lose that component which IMO is one of the best things about the tournament.  If the tournament was moved anywhere in Louisville, I would suggest Broadbent Arena right next to Freedom Hall.  It has a seating capacity of around 7K (a little bigger than Frankfurt) and logistically should be able to hold 6 mats.  I guarantee the concessions would be better as well.  But on the other hand, you run into parking issues, etc.  There would be plenty parking, but you pay $6 for each car each day which always sucks.  Who knows, maybe the Fairground Board would be willing to cut the KHSAA a break on cost since the Cards are leaving Freedom Hall and Six Flags is jumping ship as well.  They might need the business.

      Who knows, maybe the Fairground Board would be willing to cut the KHSAA a break on cost since the Cards are leaving Freedom Hall and Six Flags is jumping ship as well.  They might need the business.

They definitely do not need the business.  Freedom hall is GLAD the Cards are leaving because they can schedule events that THEY can make more money from (Don't have to give U of L any of it.)

probably already been saaid, but Louisville is like four hours from eastern kentucky without traffic

Wow, 4hours?  I don't know how you drive, but it's 2 1/2 hours max on a good traffic day.  I can get down to Harlan KY in 4hours.  I used to go to Livingston in 2 1/2-3 hours and that is 25 miles past Richmond.  My sister used to commute to EKU from Louisville for 2 semesters and she would do it in just over 2 from where my parents lived so it wouldn't be that bad of a drive for any team here.  But it is far for the Western teams. 

probably already been saaid, but Louisville is like four hours from eastern kentucky without traffic

belfry to louisville

Trip distance: 231.85373.1 mi Time: 3 hrs 52 mins

letcher county central to Louisville

Trip distance: 218.46351.6 mi Time: 3 hrs 46 mins

Sheldon Clark to Louisville

Trip distance: 211.39340.2 mi Time: 3 hrs 35 mins

according to yahoo maps

sorry it messed up for some reason

belfry to louisville

Trip distance: 231.85 mi Time: 3 hrs 52 mins

letcher county central to Louisville

Trip distance: 218.46 mi Time: 3 hrs 46 mins

Sheldon Clark to Louisville

Trip distance: 211.39 mi Time: 3 hrs 35 mins

according to yahoo maps