won Minnesota open tourney killed a nationally ranked kid in the semis and is repeating the 7th grade
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Mark Hall
Topic ID: 7166 | 53 Posts
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The repeating the grade thing could be highly controversial. Does anyone know the background?
130 Semifinals - Ben Morgan Forest Lake vs Mark Hall Apple Valley
130 Finals Hall vs. Kuehn
part 1
part 2
130 Semifinals - Ben Morgan Forest Lake vs Mark Hall Apple Valley
He mad Ben Morgan look like a scrub, cheap tilted him at will
LMAO on repeating 7th grade. Totally gaming the system, aren't they?
LMAO on repeating 7th grade. Totally gaming the system, aren't they?
Sad if our education system (Kentucky) is thats low.
This kid is a stud. We all know that. Yet if what is being said is true there are some real moral issues with the family for doing this IMO. I say this because he has been held back once already if I am correct. Does anyone know the details to this story. Anyway, it is good to see Mark is doing well and healthy he has such poise for his age.
This kid is going to be winning olympic gold medals in the fuure. Everyone in KY should be praising this kid for including you on his upward move to greatness. Why even try to think what is morally right for this him if you don't walk in his shoes. This is the number one middle school kid in the country and he is knocking off Nationally ranked kids one by one. A kid like this only comes around once in a blue moon. Quit hating on the kid and his dad for wanting more for him. If you had a phenom kid you would do the best you can for him or her. Leave the morals out of it. When was the last time you walked on water. Never.....remember that.
^^Thank you Mr. Holier than thou. What his parents are doing is wrong and in fact I speak for a lot of people when I say watching Myron Bradbury beat him last year was sweet vindication.
HA! Yeah, if I had held my kid back 2 years, he'd be dominating middle school tournaments right now! But that is not what is right, or good for him.
What does the Olympics have to do with holding him back in middle school? There is no money in a future in wrestling. He might make a little money in the UFC one day. It might be different if he had a multi-million dollar contract waiting for him in football or basketball. If he is so great (which he is) why hold him back? The only thing it does is make him 19 years old when he is a senior so he dominates because he will be a man and the other wrestlers are boys.
It appears in his family, the child runs the family. Moving him to other states where the rules are different, holding him back in school for athletic reasons rather than academic reason, etc.? That teaches the kid that he is the most important member of the family. And if he is being held back for academic reasons, maybe he should spend more time studying rather than travelling around and wrestling.
Also, kids that are great at 13 are not necessarily great at 17. I knew kids in middle school that dominated and then were very average once they got to high school. Some kids are more developed than others at an earlier age. I hope he does make the Olympics and wins gold medals. But don't be surprised if other kids catch up. Well, maybe not. He may be 21 in 12th grade, if they can find a state that will let him compete at 21 years of age.
I was not "hating" on Mark Hall nor his father. However simply stating the fact that holding a kid back for athletic reasons is wrong (once again I am not claiming to know the whole story hence my asking of confirmation). Also I would not ever take away any of the accomplishments he has already achieved. The kid is most certainly a prodigy. Yet it is a bit concerning about what is going to happen in this kids life if these "rumors" are in fact correct. Bottom line is it would be wrong on a few levels.This kid is going to be winning olympic gold medals in the fuure. Everyone in KY should be praising this kid for including you on his upward move to greatness. Why even try to think what is morally right for this him if you don't walk in his shoes. This is the number one middle school kid in the country and he is knocking off Nationally ranked kids one by one. A kid like this only comes around once in a blue moon. Quit hating on the kid and his dad for wanting more for him. If you had a phenom kid you would do the best you can for him or her. Leave the morals out of it. When was the last time you walked on water. Never.....remember that.
What was the last middle school tourney that he was in? How about the last high school tournament? Try watching him wrestle and maybe if you could, you might want to do what he is doing. Go after kids who are supposed to be better than you. He is wrestling the best of the best HS kids in the country, not middle school kids. He is the #1 ranked wrestler of middle school age kids that are kicking the snot out of premier/elite HS kids. Myron did beat him last year. He should be commended for a great year. I am not building Mark up to be something that he is not. What he is, is a great kid that has the ability and the drive to be great and to do special things. What I did say is that before you question someone Else's morals and how to do things....make sure yours don't need improving first. Hey, if he doesn't pan out in wrestling that's ok.
Notfromhere - you sound as though you are ok with it if it was in another sport (football or basketball). Why would a kid have to do what he and his family are doing only to expect a big money deal? Can I say.....double standard. People who wrestle, coach wrestling, officiate wrestling and are fans of wrestling are in it because they enjoy it and it's not just for the money.
You just killed your own point..... :-D
Everyone has there own opinion on what is right for their own kids and can express what you think is right for someone else's kids, but I promise you this........They are going to do what they think is right for that kid no matter what anyone else thinks or says. Right or Wrong, it is just an opinion if it is within the rules.
Leave the morals out of it. When was the last time you walked on water. Never.....remember that.
If you are going to "leave morals out of it", you should entertain the idea of dropping the coach part of your member name. Giving you the benefit of doubt of reading previous post, I think you may have been over zealous in wanting to defend a kid and his father that don't need defending.
If there's an issue here, it is with academics and not wrestling. It would be a shame if he were unable to qualify academically and colleges were throwing scholarships at him. Even more troubling for us is that KY standards for a 7th grader are not equal to Minnesota's.
This is the first year he has been held back. He was 12 at the beginning of wrestling season last year.
I'm not going to pretend to know the full story but Mark Hall is being put through every trick in the book to be a good wrestler. I've heard it straight from a trusted source's mouth that the ONLY reason they moved to Kentucky was so Mark could become the first ever 6 time state champion. Mark is a once in a lifetime kind of talent and I can see him winning multiple national championships. But what bugs me is that fact that if he was held back for atheletic reasons there was no need to, he was already beating nationally ranked seniors, and if the rumors turn out to be true it shows just how greedy that family is for success
Well, I suppode I might as well throw my two cents worth in on this topic. Let me start by saying what my opinion on this whole matter is. Firstly, I don't agree on what his happening here. The fact that the Halls relocated to Ky last year was fine with me. The problem I had with the whole situation was when they move back to Michigan immediately following the State Tournament last year and expected( or so I think anyway) to repeat the whole process again this year. This was my only problem with the whole situation. I don't care that the kid was held back.
Even though I don't happen to agree on the whole thing, I think all of you who have made statements like " this is not whats best for the kid" or" the kid runs that family" and so on have no wright to judge. Probably none of you know these people personally and have spoken to this kid or heard the words out of his mouth that he don't want to move or be held back or any thing of the sort. Don't judge what you don't know all the facts about people! If my son lived and breathed wrestling like this kid obviously does, I would provide every opportunity for him that my means would allow. Until you are in someone Else's shoes don't pass judgement. For those of you who keep commenting about dominating Middle School tournaments, as KYCOACH pointed out, this kid is beating Nationally ranked high school kids. NOTFROMHERE, you said there is no money to be made in wrestling. This is an ignorant statement. I would venture to say that a certain high school coach in OHIO has built a fortune (probably a millionare at this point) doing what he loves. This kid has the potential to be one of the best wrestlers ever in the United States. Maybe to the level of Dan gable or Cale Sanderson. The potential I said, still remains to be seen how it plays out, but you don't think these men have made a very comfortable living off the sport of wrestking?
"you should entertain the idea of dropping the coach part of your member name" Tiltfor3, I should do that because you say so. Let me think about that one. No thanks.
Tiltfor3 - You're right, they don't need defending because the Hall family is going to do what is right for themselves and their child. My opinion, not being over zeaouls. That's why we are on here.
refdad - I would second your motion....If my child lived and breathed wrestling or any other sport, I would do everything in my power and my means to give him or her the best training and opportunity to succeed as possible. That "Ohio Coach" is doing just fine isn't he? He also, brings in the best transfers in the country. Shocking that they will probably be National Champions this year.
It is truly amazing to me how little most people in our state really know about the sport of wrestling. Any time a kid and or family is truly committed to being great others want to complain about them being "obsessed" or " going too far" and so on. Everybody claims the want to be a state champion but VERY VERY few are willing to do what it takes to achieve that goal. I am amazed at Mark Halls ability at this age and can only wish my kids were half that committed.
And yes, as far as the "The" Ohio coach goes, he has built an empire out of plain ole hard nose drilling and out working everybody else and I think is the best wrestling coach in our country
I bet if Mark Hall sucked nobody would care if he got held back 10 times. Misery loves company an all you all hating on him need to quit trying to bring down a KID. I mean hes 13 years old and you got "adults" on her trying to judge his morals an tell him whats right an wrong an I bet none of you have ever even meet him to try to judge his morals. Stop hating an enjoy what the kid is doing because somebody like this only comes around once in awhile an it would be a shame to miss it cause your bashing him.
I don't see why they would sacrifice academics for wrestling when Mark Hall has already proven he is far beyond most nationally ranked wrestlers. He wrestled one of the best at his weight and made him look like a JV kid, I was in awe. If he was to wrestle that state finals match again he would destroy Bradbury. Again my issue with Mark Hall is that his dad is doing these things that some may consider cheating not to improve Mark, but just to get even more achievements. This is the opinon i've drawn and I hope im wrong
So FCHS your saying that moving to kentucky, traving around the United States, entering him in the best possible competition year in and year out, enrolling him in what most believe is the best high school wrestling program in the country, and wrestling him aginst HS national ranked oppents is done so he can get achievments an not improve his son? In my opinon if I wanted my kid to get achievments I would have keep him in kentucky where he would most likely have been a 6 time state champion instead of moving him to one of the best wrestling states out there.
We can judge the ethics of the Hall family all we want, but if they are playing within the rules, then the rules need to be reevaluated and not the family playing within them.
Mark Hall is one of the best wrestlers (for his age) that I have ever seen. His takedowns are amazing, and when he is riding on top, the hip pressure he keeps at all times makes him an amazing wrestler. He is definitely more naturally gifted than most, and should take advantage of as much training and instruction he can get - and if his family has the means to do that, more power to them. I don't really like how they used our state as a stepping stone, but when I watch the summer olympics years from now, I can tell everyone how I saw Mark Hall wrestle in the KY state tournament as a 7th grader.
When it comes to grades and academics I think they're kinda stretching it there... Gray Middle School (Ryle's feeder) isn't too terrible of a school, and if his grades were that bad, shouldn't he have been ruled academically ineligible?
We have to remember we're talking about a kid here. The cries of "it's not fair" only come because he has probably made a kid or two we know and cheer for look like a fool... I remember seeing Hall playing on the mat in between matches rolling around with the rest of the kids during a break. He's just a kid, and we need to not rip him and his family apart for pursing a sport we all love to it's greatest potential.
I don't think anyone is hating on him for doing well, it's the side stuff that is bad. Why can't he just stay on grade level and keep competing just as well? Maybe he really can't handle the school stuff if he spends too much time doing other stuff. I dont feel good that he came to KY for one year (actually a few months) to wrestle and then leave and go somewhere else. It did nothing for our sport in our state and it is a shame. Leave the morals out of it? That's sad if you truly are a coach here and you say that..the morals should be first and wrestling next. I am glad you weren't my coach or at my school, I would be transferring somewhere else for sure.
This kid is going to be winning olympic gold medals in the fuure. Everyone in KY should be praising this kid for including you on his upward move to greatness. Why even try to think what is morally right for this him if you don't walk in his shoes. This is the number one middle school kid in the country and he is knocking off Nationally ranked kids one by one. A kid like this only comes around once in a blue moon. Quit hating on the kid and his dad for wanting more for him. If you had a phenom kid you would do the best you can for him or her. Leave the morals out of it. When was the last time you walked on water. Never.....remember that.
ok well since everybody seems to not like mark hall for some reason i have to put my 2 cents into it. mark hall is one of the best wrestlers in the country. point blank. don't hate on him because he has more ability then anybody else. his dad knows he can be the best and he can get into any college RIGHT NOW. that's why he gives him the best comp in the country because he can beat almost everybody in his weight class and other weight classes. why do grown adults try to bring him down? because he can prolly beat them also? come on now stop bagging on the kid and let him do him.
Seems to me many on here are not getting the message.
For you kids. No one is bashing Mark Hall directly. I have not seen one negative comment on the kid. On the other hand many have questioned his dad's Morals.
Using the word morals is probably to strong of a word here. What they are questioning is why is he holding him back. If it is so he can still be a 6 time state champion then it is probably not very honest.
Mark Hall would be a great wrestler no matter if he repeated the 7th grade or not.
KYcoach-- Saying you can't make a judgment unless you walk in their shoes is not very well thought out. If this were true then none of us should vote for the president of the United States or any other government office because we have not worked for the government.
If it looks like a horse, sounds like a horse and smells like a horse, it must be a horse. (Or something like that)
As always.
This is the opinion of GOO
Nothing more Nothing less.
Take it or leave it, it really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things.
GOO OUT
Seems to me many on here are not getting the message.
For you kids. No one is bashing Mark Hall directly. I have not seen one negative comment on the kid. On the other hand many have questioned his dad's Morals.
Using the word morals is probably to strong of a word here. What they are questioning is why is he holding him back. If it is so he can still be a 6 time state champion then it is probably not very honest.
Mark Hall would be a great wrestler no matter if he repeated the 7th grade or not.
KYcoach-- Saying you can't make a judgment unless you walk in their shoes is not very well thought out. If this were true then none of us should vote for the president of the United States or any other government office because we have not worked for the government.
If it looks like a horse, sounds like a horse and smells like a horse, it must be a horse. (Or something like that)
As always.
This is the opinion of GOO
Nothing more Nothing less.
Take it or leave it, it really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things.
GOO OUT
I wish we still had those thumbs up buttons haha
Mark Hall is an unbelievably talented wrestler. I'm glad I got to see him in action at State last year, just so I can say "I saw this kid wrestle in the Kentucky state tournament as a seventh-grader" when he goes on to bigger and better things in the future.
As is not usually the case I agree with refdad Mark Hall is a unique talent which we are unlikely to see in the state of Kentucky (or anywhere else soon) again. He is not the one making the decisions in his career. Quite simply I believe his dad's goal is too make him the "best wrestler at every level for all time" and is prepared to do anything to achieve just that. I agree he is bending the spirit if not the letter of the law.
But before we get too critical lets look the most sacred cow in this state Kentucky Basketball. They hire a coach who is known to break the rules but wins. They recruit "student athletes" knowing that this is just a one or two year stop before the NBA. The powers in high school basketball recruit the best kids. Where's all the uproar about this?
We all know that any high school program in the state would love to have Mark Hall in their room this January he made the other kids in the room better by wrestling them and he demonstrated to everyone else what you can do in this sport with hard work and dedication. This sport more than any other rewards the kid who sacrifices the most and works the hardest (and smartest). Mark Hall will probably devote his entire life to wrestling. Maybe he will make a ton of money with it (Chertow or Jordan). The history of this sport is filled with stories of fanatic dedication leading to success (Gable, Mills, etc.) I think the worst thing about mark Hall is it forced us to realize our wrestling is not as good as we thought it was here. That's why some posters felt such "sweet vindication" when a high school senior who was cutting a ton of weight to get to 119 was able to beat a 12 year old in the finals.
In basketball and football (and sometimes baseball), children sometimes have the opportunity to sign multi-million dollar contracts that can ensure financial security for their families for generations to come. I could understand if a family needed that. Maybe. Still you are relying on your child to take care of thefamily. To me, there is a pimping feel to that. But in wrestling, this is not available. Just ask Brock Lesnar. He had to go to pro wrestling just to make a living, until MMA matured. To say that there is one coach somewhere in Ohio that somehow got rich off amateur wrestling does not make your point. Dan Gable is probably comfortable from video sales. Cael Sanderson has a shoe contract. Rulon Gardner gets paid to speak. That's about it. Brock Lesnar and a few others jacked up on steroids and embarassed themselves in pro wrestling. Randy Couture and a handful of others made money in the UFC. It is not like basketball andfootball where they throw out multi-million dollar signing bonuses.
If the kid can already beat HS seniors, why hold him back? To stroke your own ego, I suspect.
I would like to think that being honest is one of the greatest attributes a wrestler gains by participating in the sport. We are a different breed flat out. Wrestling is more rewarding than any million dollar contract to me. The things I have overcome because of what wrestling has taught me to do is overwhelming. I believe that this thread is starting to get a little out of perspective at the moment. Comparing this to D1 Basketball recruiting is not a good point. It really is not needed. The fact remains if all the things involving Mark Hall and his wrestling career are within the rules there is not much we can say about it whether it be wrong or not. Nobody is bashing Mark, in fact this thread started out by a video of the kid doing what he does best. Wrestling.
This thread needs to be locked or removed
Notfromhere; I won't waste any more of my time responding to your comments. It's obvious your very informed. Oldwrestler81' I didn't know you usually disagree with me, so thanks for the vote of confidence.
Excuse me, that was supposed to be your NOT very informed!
No problem for the voe of confidence. How do you think this thread might evolve if a certain wrestler named Steffan (and his dad) had moved down here instead of Mark Hall?
The kids sounds like a great kid caught up in a very unusual situation.
Another argument for middle schoolers to stay in Middle School. If they arent completing high school academic curriculum they shouldnt be participating in high school sports.
I have heard of families relocating to KY for their basketball playing kids, but they are moving the family or the kids are moving in with family, Aunts or Uncles. This seems excessive but more reasonable. But to move just for the season and to live in a mobile home is a bit of a stretch regardless the reason. Where was the KHSAA on this?
Refdad, I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps there is some professional wrestling league that I am not informed about. I thought wrestling was an amateur sport. Are you saying that there is a way that a wrestler out of high school or college can get paid miilions of dollars to wrestle? I did not know that. I have friends fighting MMA matches for $500 or less.
If you are making millions as a wrestling coach, you must be a businessman running camps or something. The wrestling coaches I know are school teachers making $40,000 and a couple of extra bucks per month to coach.
I do know that the NBA pays million dollar signing bonuses to players that end up in Europe, the D league or out of basketball completely. THAT might be worth the risk of transferring, holding the kid back, etc.
My kid wants to go to medical school. If I hold him back for athletics, that COSTS him $250,000 possibly in lost wages earning potential. Let's just ALL hold our kids back so they can have an advantage in athletics. That's what is important in amateur scholastic athletics!
Interesting that eville dad jumped into this discussion. His son was one of the best KY MS wrestlers I have ever seen. In fact, I tried to convince him to have him compete at the high school level. He eventually became one of my favorite wrestlers to watch of all time.
Regarding Mark Hall, I'm with refdad as well. It is safe to assume no one on this site knows all that is going on in Mark's life or his family. Everything I have heard is that Mark is a great kid and deserves all of the success he achieves. He is a true phenom. And like a few others have said, I look forward to the day when I will be sitting on the couch watching the NCAA championships or Olympics with my boys and say "remember when we saw him wrestle for Ryle?"
I admit I was very much against the idea of a short stay in KY to win a state championship and immediately moving back to Michigan. I would support a real move-in 100%. I also do not like the idea of holding back for athletic purposes. Again, we don't know all of the details of Mark's situation. But for discussion purposes, let's assume it is purely athletics driven. What type of lesson is this teaching Mark? To me it is saying, "you couldn't win 6 championships, so let's find a way to get around it?" To me, when/if Mark pulls of the 6 titles so many people around the country will say, BUT IT TOOK HIM 7 TRIES. And in my mind, I'm not sure what Mark gains as a wrestler by repeating. He is already beating, not just competing with, but beating nationally ranked high school kids. What happens in 4 years?
I will finish by saying Mark has worked his tail off for years to become potentially one of the greatest wrestlers to compete in KY. He has set an example for all of us in KY to step up our game. I think we have seen our kids move in that direction with increased participation in events like Nationals and Fargo and The Beast of the East. We can question the right and wrong of the decisions of his family (moving and holding back), but in the end, those are family decisions and really none of our business. Hopefully, everything is within the rules and guidelines, but that is up to the state to decide. We just need to sit back and enjoy the wrestling and push our kids to reach their potential.
Notfromhere:
Do you know how many of these kids in basketball, football and baseball actually make it to the real money? Can you name 10 kids in the last 20 years from Kentucky who made it to the pros and really cashed in. The idea of making it as a pro athelte is about as smart as funding your retirement plan by buing lottery tickets
We all know that any high school program in the state would love to have Mark Hall in their room this January he made the other kids in the room better by wrestling them and he demonstrated to everyone else what you can do in this sport with hard work and dedication.
I would say this is true only if he is there to practice with them. Not participate and leave after 5 months. I don't believe any coach wants a kid who they will not be able to coach. He brings his own coaches.
You have to remember it's not what you receive at the end of the year. (Such as a team state title.), but rather how you get it.
If you are part of a team that wins a state title because of kids who transfer in for one or two years then those kids did not grow up in your system. There are to many kids today try to ride on the back of their best wrestler and try to live through them. Instead of trying to be great themselves.
Mark Hall himself has a good work ethic and drive, however renting him for a year or two is not what a high school coach would want in his wrestling room.
Once again
This is the opinion of GOO
Nothing more nothing less
GOO OUT
Uummm, isn't it more likely that he is repeating 7th grade because he transferred schools 2 or 3 times in the last year. Going from Michigan to Kentucky, back to Michigan, then to a new school this year, some of the classes may not have transferred. Before I will blast his Dad for holding him back for athletics (which happens in KY as well), we might find a less ominous explanation.
Who was checking his grades while he wrestled HS and attended MS?
How does that all work for MS kids wrestling HS, do the MS teachers validate he's passing classes with the appropriate grade point average?
Who was checking his grades while he wrestled HS and attended MS?
How does that all work for MS kids wrestling HS, do the MS teachers validate he's passing classes with the appropriate grade point average?
It may not be a matter of grade point average, just a matter of what core classes are required in Michigan verses Kentucky, and what classes transfer. Could also be a matter of missing a certain number of classes. The point is that this thread assumed it was being done for sports, and no one here has any information to support that. (ok, if I was betting, I would go thatway as well :evil:).
I wasn't going to speak on this topic as it has been beat to death. Mark Hall was going to repeat a grade either 7th or 8th when he came to Kentucky from the start. BTW. The Ryle school district is one of the best academically in the state. Gray Middle School is a great place to get an education. Mark Hall the son is no dumby very smart. He made good grades and worked on them accordingly. He spent many nights at my house on the weekends. He is a great kid. Kids get held back in school to enhance their chances all the time. There was a thread a few years ago about kids in Kentucky staying back to become middle school state champs. Whoopee! There is a kid in northern kentucky that is as big as a house who plays football and his dad played in the NFL for years. He got held back in middle school. So what. It is his kid and he is doing what he thinks is best. Some people don't like Mark Hall the dad but I will tell you he drove several of Marks varsity team mates up to Michigan last year on his own dime gave them room and board and some tough workouts with Michigan boys. He didn't have to do it but he did. They didn't come down to wrestle middle schoolers they came to wrestle varsity and most of those matches were in Ohio. He lost three matches this past year. One was a kid from Graham and the other two were Bradbury who is on tough wrestler. He wanted Mark to have some good wrestling partners and be able to wrestle varsity and that mission was accomplished. Good luck to them in the future.
Thanks Ryledad, this topic has been beat to death. Whether you agree or disagree it is what is best for that particular family, the kid obviously in in a unique situation and they are obviously trying to do what's best for the Hall Family. I thought I would log on yesterday and read post about how well the kids from KY did at the beast and this subject has definitely taken on a life of it's own.
I shouldnt have referenced Hall in my earlier comments. I dont know his situation other than hes an awesome wrestler. My comments were meant more towards the issue of grades in general. I meant to really just question the validation of grades for any middle school athlete competing in a high school sport, any sport, anywhere. How are their grades validated to declare academic eligibility to be able to compete in any school sport..
My quess is that they are not in many cases.
I shouldnt have referenced Hall in my earlier comments. I dont know his situation other than hes an awesome wrestler. My comments were meant more towards the issue of grades in general. I meant to really just question the validation of grades for any middle school athlete competing in a high school sport, any sport, anywhere. How are their grades validated to declare academic eligibility to be able to compete in any school sport..
My quess is that they are not in many cases.
I know in our program, the middle school eligibility criteria is more strict than the high school. Typically the kid is assumed by the school to be on the middle school team and has their grades checked likewise.
BTW. The Ryle school district is one of the best academically in the state.
I was going to mention that Ryle is very good academically. You have Brian Peace going to Princeton, this years QB at Ryle has committed to Harvard. You don't see that in any Jefferson County School.
I don't doubt Ryle is a great school but I have to call out Dupont Manuals Academics Has lead the state for a long time. Male is very good too!
It's simply amazing how much discussion is being generated about one who does not wrestle anymore in this fine state. Incredible.