I thought it would be a good time to start a discussion around the state about our upcoming Youth State Tournament.  As the host team, we're really interested in everyone's input on how to improve the tournament for everyone (kids, coaches, parents, refs).  We will be implementing a few changes this year to help prevent some of the issues in the past.  Any ideas? 

Where is Youth State this year?

Frankfort Civic center feb. 20

Last year state tournament at Frankfort was worst experience that we have had at any of the Elementary Tournaments.  Below is a few example of the chaos of last year tournament.  Teams was given 4 coaches passes with I believe 16 or 20 different wrestling areas.  These 16 / 20 different wrestling areas was made up of 1/ 4 of a mat.  Having larger & older  wrestlers wrestling on only a forth of a mat just does not work.  In addition, larger kids wrestled beside of much smaller kids.  The concessions offered was poor and costly. 

Positives:  I saw many of the young wrestlers at the high school state tournament.  The large number of wrestlers. 

I had many of my kids wrestle last year without a coach or with a parent coaching.  I understand with a tournament of this size it is hard to keep in going and everyone informed.  Make sure that the refs do not start a match without a coach present.

Last year state tournament at Frankfort was worst experience that we have had at any of the Elementary Tournaments.  Below is a few example of the chaos of last year tournament.  Teams was given 4 coaches passes with I believe 16 or 20 different wrestling areas.  These 16 / 20 different wrestling areas was made up of 1/ 4 of a mat.  Having larger & older  wrestlers wrestling on only a forth of a mat just does not work.  In addition, larger kids wrestled beside of much smaller kids.  The concessions offered was poor and costly. 

Positives:  I saw many of the young wrestlers at the high school state tournament.  The large number of wrestlers.

Unfortunately, you will see the same poor and costly concessions again.  Unless the feedback from last year impacts those that run the facility.  They disctate the concessions.  As far as the 1/4 mats and multiple surfaces that was necessary with the number of kids participating.  There may be a way those running the event this year can arrange for 1/2 mats for the bigger kids.

Adjusting the mat sizes (really the amount of mats) is tricky.  I'd be concerned about hosting a 1 day tournament w/ 1,000 kids (give or take) on only 12 mats or less.  Indeed, the kids have more space to wrestle, and one could argue less out of bounds time could help speed up the matches.  Also, there would be less tables and table workers, which continues to be an issue for the youth tournament.  I'm just not sure we'll have enough time to complete the tourney at a reasonable time.   

We attended a youth tournament this year that used full mats.  The tournament director claimed it would speed up the tournament, however we were there all day and they only had around 350-400 kids.  Granted, they only used 4 full mats and the quality of the wrestling was better for everyone.  Maybe in the future we can use the Regional Tournaments as a qualifier to decrease the number.

We are going to give more passes for the coaches, but will insist they and the wrestlers sit in the designated seating areas assigned to their mat until called.  We're hopeful this will help cut back on the floor chaos. 

The food situation is what it is.  Until it gets changed, like Ranger said, we're at their mercy. 

One suggestion I will make to ALL teams attending the tournament is to sit down with your regional rep and review your rosters before they get turned in to the host team for state.  We had a situation last year where one of our kids wrestled at regionals and was on our roster, but was left off the list submitted by the regional rep and given to the people running the tournament.  Luckily for us there was a kid in the next weight bracket up that could not make the tournament and our boy was given his spot.  However, if that boy would not have been sick our boy would not have wrestled.

KEY POINT:  It is not the host school's responsibility to make sure your list is complete----it is your responsibility.  Do not let your regional rep turn in your roster without your coach or team mom checking it one last time.  Many thanks to the fine folks at Campbell Co. for taking a bad situation and making it work.

Stop calling it a State Tournament when a great majority of the Western part of the state doesn't participate. We would, if you would hold the tournament at a later date, however do to the short sightedness of the organizers, those of us who coach both High School and elementary cannot possibly do both back to back. Add in the fact that those same Western coaches also coach a majority of the Middle School programs wrestling the day after the High School state tournament will never allow for the participation of a majority of the Western Kentucky elementary programs.

Hi all,

I'm new to Kentucky (I'm from NE Ohio), but wrestled from age 10 through Division I college.  My boy is 8 and in his first year of wrestling.  We are excited about the regionals and state tournament.  Please forgive my ignorance, but I have some questions.

1.  Why is there a regional when everyone wrestles at the State meet?

2.  Why is there such an overlap between elementary and middle school?  Our team has had 4th graders wresting at the middle school district/regionals.  Seems a bit odd to have a 4th grader competing against an 8th grader.  Is this common?

3.  I've lived all over the US and have been very impressed with Ky wrestling.  It's not on par with PA or OH, but pretty close to WV and IN wrestling imo.  Seems to be up and coming also.  Any thoughts?

Thanks for any responses.  As far as the state tourney goes, I'm a newbie and cant wait to see it.

Stop calling it a State Tournament when a great majority of the Western part of the state doesn't participate. We would, if you would hold the tournament at a later date, however do to the short sightedness of the organizers, those of us who coach both High School and elementary cannot possibly do both back to back. Add in the fact that those same Western coaches also coach a majority of the Middle School programs wrestling the day after the High School state tournament will never allow for the participation of a majority of the Western Kentucky elementary programs.

Would having the tourney in Louisville make it better since it's more centrally located?  Seems like an impossible complaint to address.

[Would having the tourney in Louisville make it better since it's more centrally located?  Seems like an impossible complaint to address./b]

No, having it later-sometime in March- would help. Most Western Kentucky teams don't get started until after Middle school ends. I coach all three programs. Imagine my asking my high school wrestlers to sit around all day after 3 days of wrestling to wait for the elementary wrestlers to compete., not a good idea. Holding it later into March means my elementary wrestlers would get a whole month of practice and at least 2 competitions under their belt before they would have to wrestle in the state championships.

Naples, I'm not sure what else to call the tournament.  Also, not sure I understand why these challenges only have an impact on your area.  Please explain.  I know programs in our region (NKY) have aggressively recruited help to have coaches at all levels.  Almost all top programs in any state have multiple coaches at the youth and middle school level.  It is the key ingredient in running an elite High School program.  Besides, youth wrestling around the country starts in November.  Why should we extend or cut our seasons short because a few programs aren't willing/able to keep up with the rest of the country's schedule?  That would be taking a huge step backwards for our state.  My advice is to get more help and start earlier. 

Naples, do you really want the entire youth tournament to be rescheduled because your team doesn't have enough coaches?  Instead of suggesting everyone adjust to your deficiencies and/or minimizing the state tournament, why don't you recruit some more youth and middle school coaches?  The best teams in the country have coaching staffs at every level....that's what you should strive towards. 

MLee these challenges not only impact the West, but South Central and Eastern KY.  The lack of resources(no only coaches, but mats, practice area and finances(unnecessary AAU cost, travel to tournaments,  ) of rural areas  has been discussed from the beginning of the organization of the youth association.    In was made clear the importance of keeping the Elementary State Tournament the first week of March from the beginning of the forming of the association.  However, by  the choices and decision of the association, overtime it has became very clear to the rural areas of Kentucky the association has no interest of growing youth wrestling for Kentucky, but promoting the Urban NKY Youth Wrestling agenda.    This personal agenda clearly been seen in moving the Elementary State Tournament up two weeks and where the revenue of the state tournament has gone.  If my memory is correct the first elementary tournament was held at Lure County (05), McCreary County (06) Corner (07), Johnson County (08), Fern Creek, (09), Campbell County (10) and Corner again (11).  You can see 4 out of the last 5 tournaments have benefited NKY Programs. 

Last, MLee how would extending the youth program till March be a Hugh step backward?  I believe the Ohio TC is held in April.

I think assuming there is an agenda by NKY youth wrestling to keep the rural parts of the state from developing better youth teams is preposterous and borderline paranoid.  I personally know almost everyone involved with NKY wrestling and can tell you that everyone I know shares a vision of promoting the development of wrestling in Kentucky.     

First, I do not feel NKY Youth wrestling agenda is to " keep rural parts of the state from developing better youth teams" (not sure where you got that from) but, the NKY agenda is to push their personal agenda over the development of youth wrestling in Kentucky.  Just follow the money, it takes you to the where the agenda. 

JCB,

I'm not sure where to begin.  I post a topic hoping to get ideas on how to improve our state tournament, and it seems all some want to talk about is the excuses on why their program cannot keep up w/ others.

Regardless of what you may believe, these elite programs have developed by the result of hard work, not by resource advantages.  We've paid for our mats, singlets, and supplies by running a tournament every year, not by a trust fund or hefty donation by an alum.  Our team and parents spent countless hours planning and hosting our Rumble tournament this season, which has helped us purchase everything we have and need.   

However let's just pretend what you're saying is correct.  There is an agenda/conspiracy against rural KY (which I find comical).  Isn't hard work and overcoming the odds core values taught in our sport? 

And to answer your question.  I would have more concerns w/ shortening the season than extending it, although I have issues w/ both.  Baseball season starts in March.  I think having less or no overlap w/ other sports is a good idea.  Also, by year end, our program will have wrestled in 13 tournaments.  That is a lot for youth.  I'd be afraid of burnout if we had 3 more weeks. Finally, having the tournament at the Convention Center is a blessing.  I'd hate to go back to a high school gym after having there for the last few years.  That would be like going back to Atherton High School.

And by the way, Johnson County and Fern Creek are not NKY programs.  Not sure how you came up w/ 4 of 5.  It is 3 of 7 (according to your history).

JCB,

I just reviewed some of your past posts and it is clear you are hell bent on trying to convice people on this site that Louisville and NKY intentionally try to push their "agenda" over the needs of rural KY teams.  I don't know you personally, but you should take a glance at your past posts to see how hung up on this topic you have been.  Ultimately, it is the "agenda" of every team to develop their team to the best of their ability within the framework of the state association.  Obviously, some teams have found a way to be successful while others have not...such is life.  All of the people I have met within the state association have the best intentions and you are implying otherwise with no evidence, but to say follow the money.  As Coach Lee stated, I can't speak for every Louisville and NKY team, but Raider Youth is well supported by the hard work of the entire Raider community.

MLee if you review my original post I listed below you will see several of the concerns and positives I personally had and feel many others had with the elementary state tournament last year.  In addition, I listed a few positives about last years tournament. 

My Post "Last year state tournament at Frankfort was worst experience that we have had at any of the Elementary Tournaments.  Below is a few example of the chaos of last year tournament.  Teams was given 4 coaches passes with I believe 16 or 20 different wrestling areas.  These 16 / 20 different wrestling areas was made up of 1/ 4 of a mat.  Having larger & older  wrestlers wrestling on only a forth of a mat just does not work.  In addition, larger kids wrestled beside of much smaller kids.  The concessions offered was poor and costly. 

Positives:  I saw many of the young wrestlers at the high school state tournament.  The large number of wrestlers. " 

Then you replied "Adjusting the mat sizes (really the amount of mats) is tricky.  I'd be concerned about hosting a 1 day tournament w/ 1,000 kids (give or take) on only 12 mats or less.  Indeed, the kids have more space to wrestle, and one could argue less out of bounds time could help speed up the matches.  Also, there would be less tables and table workers, which continues to be an issue for the youth tournament.  I'm just not sure we'll have enough time to complete the tourney at a reasonable time.   

We are going to give more passes for the coaches, but will insist they and the wrestlers sit in the designated seating areas assigned to their mat until called.  We're hopeful this will help cut back on the floor chaos. 

The food situation is what it is.  Until it gets changed, like Ranger said, we're at their mercy. "

In your reply above I felt like you had identified many of my concerns and was working to improve on them.

However, in your reply to naplesme (Naples, I'm not sure what else to call the tournament.  Also, not sure I understand why these challenges only have an impact on your area.  Please explain.  I know programs in our region (NKY) have aggressively recruited help to have coaches at all levels.  Almost all top programs in any state have multiple coaches at the youth and middle school level.  It is the key ingredient in running an elite High School program.  Besides, youth wrestling around the country starts in November.  Why should we extend or cut our seasons short because a few programs aren't willing/able to keep up with the rest of the country's schedule?  That would be taking a huge step backwards for our state.  My advice is to get more help and start earlier.) I felt like you attacked naplesme with your elitist, arrogant, ideology with little understanding of the situation.  In my post I attempted to show that many parts of Kentucky have issues with moving the state tournament date up 3 weeks.  Due to more reasons other then just coaching issues.  The raidercaoch posted ( I think assuming there is an agenda by NKY youth wrestling to keep the rural parts of the state from developing better youth teams is preposterous and borderline paranoid.  I personally know almost everyone involved with NKY wrestling and can tell you that everyone I know shares a vision of promoting the development of wrestling in Kentucky. ) This was a poor attempt of raidercoach to refram my post into something it was not.  I replied to raidercoach post with, (First, I do not feel NKY Youth wrestling agenda is to " keep rural parts of the state from developing better youth teams" (not sure where you got that from) but, the NKY agenda is to push their personal agenda over the development of youth wrestling in Kentucky.  Just follow the money, it takes you to where the agenda ends.  ) which I though was simple and clear.  Then you replied with (However let's just pretend what you're saying is correct.  There is an agenda/conspiracy against rural KY (which I find comical).  Isn't hard work and overcoming the odds core values taught in our sport?  ) I also find it comical and another poor attempt to attack me and re-frame what I said into something you can belittle.  For the second time NKY teams controlling the association  does not care one way or another about any other wrestling program be it rural or Urban period.  NKY teams controlling the association only care about self promotion. 

Last, if the association has not been taken over by the NKY and the association is working in the growth and development of Kentucky Wrestling why is back to back elementary state money going to NKY teams?  That had not happened before in the history.  That was the point of my post regarding previous tournament.  The money had in the past been spread around the state. 

raidercoach

Raidercoach in on why have I attempted to belittle all the hard work which goes into developing a successful wrestling program.  I personally believe Campbell, Corner, River City, Union and many other have become successful due to the hard work of coaches, kids and parents and are bench marks programs to model.  In addition, I respect you and MLee for many reason one being your user name allows people to know who you are thus not hiding behind screen names.  However, the fact are what the are and that is the association had not work to develop wrestling through out Kentucky.  In my opinion the association had work more for self development and created hoops to limited participation.  The best example of that is requiring all AAU Cards in by 1-1-11 our program can not wrestle in the tournaments.  Many of the rural teams have not stated by the 1st of January.  That 7 weeks before the state tournament. 

JCB,

In addition, I listed a few positives about last years tournament. 

My Post "Last year state tournament at Frankfort was worst experience that we have had at any of the Elementary Tournaments.  Below is a few example of the chaos of last year tournament.  If that is your definition of positive, I'd hate to see your list of negatives.  Sorry, I don't mean to be rude.  I just found that funny.

I have no idea what your definition of NKY is and what association you're referring to and how NKY is controlling it.  The President, who does an outstanding job in my opinion, is from North Oldham...not NKY.  I believe the next President (who was ELECTED) is from Trinity, once again not NKY.     

As far as 3 NKY programs hosting the state tournament in 7 years, I'm not sure that is a bad ratio.  All 3 programs (Conner, Campbell County, and Raiders) are larger programs that have the muscle to handle such a large task.  I believe you are too caught up on where the programs are from versus the size of each.  I will be honest with you.  I was 50/50 whether I wanted our program to even take it on.  It is a huge responsibility w/ hours and hours of effort from dozens of workers.  The host team deserves every penny they earn running it.  We've been working on it since November.  If you'd like to handle it, come to the meetings and volunteer your team. 

If anyone else has any other suggestions on improving the Youth State Tournament this year, please post.  It is not too late to implement changes.  I have a meeting w/ the Director of the Convention Center this week to discuss a few topics and create a diagram of the floor. 

I applaud Mlee for asking for suggestions on how to improve the state tournament.  The WKY situation has been discussed at length.  There is in fact several WKY teams that attend the state tournament in Frankfort, kick butt, take names and go home. 

I have personally attended every youth meeting, but one due to a death in my family, and never has a WKY team shown up to discuss the date and time of the tournament.  Union Co. reps have shown up for several meetings but their argument was for a bracketed tournament with a state champ per weight class.  We accomplished this by going to the 10% rule thereby crowning a state champ per weight.

There is not one current board member from NKY.

Hosting the state tournament is simple.  Show up at meetings, host tournaments to prove you have the manpower to host the state tournament, and put your name on the list to host.  Then take the heat for everything you did wrong you thought you were doing right.  The past host teams can tell you it's no picnic.  You need well over 100 volunteers, a tournament director willing to put in at least 100 hours of personal time, and extremely hard working parents that don't even get to see their kids wrestle in the State Tournament because they are more concerned that the rest of the state is able to enjoy themselves.

You say "follow the money", I say follow the people actively involved in youth wrestling who show up for meetings, vote on these issues, and then dig in to get it done.

We all welcome your involvement.  See you at the Spring meeting.

Stan I have went through the process of holding a elementary state tournament and you are correct that it's very hard work and a reward-less task. 

However, you say "Hosting the state tournament is simple" reviewing the requirements you listed below with the location being Frankfort how many elementary program would you say would be able to handle hosting.  I would guess less then 10.  To me that is just another example of the rich getting richer.    Not sure how that promotes wrestling through out Kentucky.

"Hosting the state tournament is simple.  Show up at meetings, host tournaments to prove you have the manpower to host the state tournament, and put your name on the list to host.  Then take the heat for everything you did wrong you thought you were doing right.  The past host teams can tell you it's no picnic.  You need well over 100 volunteers, a tournament director willing to put in at least 100 hours of personal time, and extremely hard working parents that don't even get to see their kids wrestle in the State Tournament because they are more concerned that the rest of the state is able to enjoy themselves."

Hello all.  This is my son's 3rd year with youth state wrestling and it will be our 3rd year wrestling the state tourney.  We wrestle with Bluegrass.  I personally appreciate MLee taking the time to ask for opinions on the state format, and I appreciate them hosting.  We're what I would categorize as a moderate size club, and we have participants that regularly travel out of state to wrestle.  That being said, we have nowhere near the resource or parental involvement necessary to take on a tourney that size, and I applaud them for being able to pull it off.

Here are my thoughts on what I've experienced at state and view as weak points vs. tournaments in other locations:

1.  Start time - events that we regularly attend in KY, including past state tournaments but also numerous other tournaments/events, tend to start well behind schedule, which frustrates parents and causes long days and lack of focus for the kids.  The start delay is usually significant, often at least an hour.  Having never constructed or run a tourney, I don't know what it would take to be more rigid with start times in general, whether it's more tourney manpower, info on wrestlers turned in sooner, examining the way scratches get treated, brackets get built, etc.  But when I compare it to tournaments my son participates in in Ohio, the way the way event start times and no-shows are handled are very different here in KY.

2.  Given that the event often runs behind, the "faceoff" before the finals usually puts it even further off schedule.  I know it's fun, it's "for the kids", and I'm sure most of the kids like their 10 seconds in the spotlight.  But at a 1000 kid tourney I think it's impractical, too long, and probably a luxury best reserved for smaller tournaments with smoother scheduling.  It's the only tourney we have ever participated in that does it.

3.  Usually the tourneys we've attended in Ohio have a morning and an afternoon session.  However, several we've attended this year have broken into 3 sessions, morning, mid day, and a bit later afternoon, and I think those tourneys have all run very smoothly.  Has an extra session split been given any consideration?

Mat surfaces - 16-20 surfaces is a must for a tourney the size of State.  1/2 mats are great for 11-12 year old brackets if you can get it, but not at a cost of reduction of surfaces to 12 or fewer.

Designated staging area for wrestlers -  good idea.  You get called, you're not in the staging area, you get bumped for the next pairing.  You get back in the queue and get called again in time to finish the bracket round, and you're still not there, you scratch and the mat moves on.  You could apply some judgement and patience to this for the younger kids, but there's no reason 9-12 year old kids couldn't understand and meet this rule.

CBender, thanks for your support and I love your ideas.  I'll try to address all changes made to fix some of the issues you referenced.

1) Start time:  In my opinion, this is the most important component to running a smooth tournament.  We are going to do everything in our power to make sure the whistles are blowing at 9:00.  Brackets and mat assignments will be posted the night before.  Also, I am going to email mat assignments to coaches prior to the tournament.  This will allow them to prepare the parents before arriving to state.  However, we'll deliver another copy of the mat assignments to the head coach/team mom once they check in.  I'm hopeful this extra work will make it easier for parents and kids to find their mats and get ready to wrestle. 

2) I'm w/ you 100% on the faceoff.  I am pushing for a "Walk of Champions" type of ceremony that allows all participants to walk a path w/ their team and meet in the middle.  An announcer would simply call off each team in alphabetical order, w/ the spot light and music going.  The team would be lead by their coaches.  I'm sure this would have some issues, but it would certainly save time and allow all wrestlers to participate, not just finalists. 

3) I consulted w/ the tournament director for the City Wide tournament held in Cincy, which usually has 1200+ kids.  He recommended 3 sessions too.  I see the benefit in doing it, my only concern would be w/ table workers.  As the sessions end, the parents and help tend to leave.  We should certainly consider this for future tournaments.

You are doing a fine job Matt.  Just because other areas can't keep up with the times, does not mean we stop and wait.  Kentucky wrestling has come a long way, and it is still shooting upwards.  We are competing with Ohio, and Indiana.  Raider wrestling speaks for itself.  Keep up, or stay behind.

CBender, thanks for your support and I love your ideas.  I'll try to address all changes made to fix some of the issues you referenced.

1) Start time:  In my opinion, this is the most important component to running a smooth tournament.  We are going to do everything in our power to make sure the whistles are blowing at 9:00.  Brackets and mat assignments will be posted the night before.  Also, I am going to email mat assignments to coaches prior to the tournament.  This will allow them to prepare the parents before arriving to state.  However, we'll deliver another copy of the mat assignments to the head coach/team mom once they check in.  I'm hopeful this extra work will make it easier for parents and kids to find their mats and get ready to wrestle. 

2) I'm w/ you 100% on the faceoff.  I am pushing for a "Walk of Champions" type of ceremony that allows all participants to walk a path w/ their team and meet in the middle.  An announcer would simply call off each team in alphabetical order, w/ the spot light and music going.  The team would be lead by their coaches.  I'm sure this would have some issues, but it would certainly save time and allow all wrestlers to participate, not just finalists. 

3) I consulted w/ the tournament director for the City Wide tournament held in Cincy, which usually has 1200+ kids.  He recommended 3 sessions too.  I see the benefit in doing it, my only concern would be w/ table workers.  As the sessions end, the parents and help tend to leave.  We should certainly consider this for future tournaments.

Damon,

We'll have brackets and mat assignments posted on a wall at the Convention Center.  This will allow coaches/parents/kids find their team's mat assignment quickly as they enter the tournament.  The mat assignment will also include their bracket number.  With so many brackets, it can be hard to locate w/out the number. 

Just a quick update.  After visiting w/ the Convention Center (along w/ Kyle) we have made some final decisions and changes on a few things.  Here is a list of changes made (most of which have been discussed):

1) All spectators (w/ the exception of the handicapped) will enter the Convention Center through the 2nd floor (travel up the ramps) versus the main floor like the High School Tournament.  They'll be asked to exit the same way.  This will help reduce the floor traffic. 

2) As mentioned before, nobody will be permitted on the floor w/out bands.  This will be strictly enforced by 6-8 police officers and security guards. 

3) The first 5 rows of seats will be blocked off for wrestlers and coaches only.  There will be designated staging areas for all participants located close to their mat assignment.  The kids will be asked to sit in this area until called.  Coaches will be encouraged to sit in these areas as much as possible too. 

4) The medal ceremony will start as soon as the bracket is complete.  A staging area will be set up for kids to sit while pictures are taking.  Although we are using the same area, we've made a few adjustments to help cut back the crowd.  Unfortunately, there really isn't a perfect place to hand out the medals.

5) 2 sets of brackets and mat assignments will be posted (one on each wall heading up the ramp).  This should make it easy for kids and parents to locate where they need to be as they enter.

6) Hospitality room will be for all table workers, refs, AND COACHES.

7) Head table will be located in the area w/ the sound equipment.  This will give us a little more room on the floor.

7) Face off will remain as is. 

raidercoach

Raidercoach in on why have I attempted to belittle all the hard work which goes into developing a successful wrestling program.  I personally believe Campbell, Corner, River City, Union and many other have become successful due to the hard work of coaches, kids and parents and are bench marks programs to model.  In addition, I respect you and MLee for many reason one being your user name allows people to know who you are thus not hiding behind screen names.  However, the fact are what the are and that is the association had not work to develop wrestling through out Kentucky.  In my opinion the association had work more for self development and created hoops to limited participation.  The best example of that is requiring all AAU Cards in by 1-1-11 our program can not wrestle in the tournaments.  Many of the rural teams have not stated by the 1st of January.  That 7 weeks before the state tournament.

Just following the Remarks, But to correct one thing. They are USA cards, not AAU cards. Also as most coaches know, 1-1-11 was a guideline to get team info in. I have not refused any coach turning in team info after that date. The early dedline was to help me register and input every team before the big day. I can tell you that i am still updating teams. This did not effect any team in the association.

First, I do not feel NKY Youth wrestling agenda is to " keep rural parts of the state from developing better youth teams" (not sure where you got that from) but, the NKY agenda is to push their personal agenda over the development of youth wrestling in Kentucky.  Just follow the money, it takes you to the where the agenda.

JCB, I have been to every association meeting and discuss all these issues. The problem is, not many coaches show up at no fault of the associations. The coaches that attend are the ones that step up and host events and make decisions. The assoc. or even the coaches cannot read the minds of coaches that do not attend. If everyone would attend the associations meetings then everyone would be on the same playing field.It's Hard for coaches to complain when they don't show up to express there issues. Start attending the meetings.

kdsmith27

I believe if you review the meeting notes you will see that we have had a coach at most if not all the meeting.  However, getting the "alliance"  to make difficult choices to promote wrestling through out Kentucky not their program personal interest seems to have not happen. 

JCB,

The increase in participation should verify the sport is being promoted throughout KY.  I've heard the first state tournaments were in the 200-300 range.  Last year we had over 800 kids.  This year we're expecting 900+. 

Also, I'm aware of 3 first year youth programs this season and I'm sure there is more.  I've recently seen a list that had the names of all the youth programs.  I was amazed how many teams have developed over recent years.  Isn't this another indicator youth wrestling in KY is growing and being promoted?

It seems to me the association has done a fine job at making those difficult choices, the results prove that. 

The growth of youth wrestling in Kentucky has been outstanding over the past few years.  This is demonstrated by the increased number of attendees at the state tournament and the increased amount of teams across the state.   

JCB, it is obvious that you are not satisfied with the growth in the areas where YOU want to see growth.  You have made many unfounded claims that there is an agenda by NKY and Louisville to support their growth, but not the growth of rural parts of the state.  I agree with the notion that rural parts lack some of the resources to keep up with other parts of the state.  But make no mistake, the biggest resource behind the growth of these teams is people...not money generated by hosting the state tournament.  Hence, because there is a greater resource of people in NKY and Louisville, there will naturally be more growth in these areas.  This is true with any state and/or sport in the country. 

Being so close to Ohio, we get to see many successful wrestling programs.  Almost all of them come from the big cities like Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland and Toledo.  Their success has nothing to do with money, but is the result of many people volunteering their time and energy into building their teams from the ground up.  We go head-to-head with youth teams that have had many years of a head start over Raider Youth and for the most part, we get our butts kicked.  Most of these teams have 5-10 experienced coaches and a ton of parents helping coordinate fund raising events.  These teams aren't good because of one or two coaches, but are the result of an entire community's efforts. 

Your feelings about Raider Youth and other NKY and Louisville programs are obvious.  You have claimed that we have an "elitist attitude", but I claim that you have an inferiority complex.  I can relate, because that is how NKY has felt to Cincinnati for years.  My only advice would be to do something about it instead of complaining about "the man" holding you down.     

For what it's worth, I disagree with the assertion that rural areas are disadvantaged in wrestling.  St Paris Graham, Claymont, Monroeville and a host of other Ohio schools are in rural areas and have done very well.  Granted St Paris Graham has virtual recruits, but the program was built with local kids and is not exactly in an urban area.

nkawtg135 - rural areas are at a disadvantage because they lack the main resource to develop elite programs: people.  I don't think it is impossible for a rural school to build an elite program, it is just much more unlikely and difficult.  All three of the Ohio programs you listed are virtually suburbs of considerable sized cities.  St. Paris Graham pulls kids from both Dayton and Columbus, Claymont is relatively close to Columbus and Monroeville is near Sandusky. 

Furthermore, these are rare cases. Ohio has a plethora of elite wrestlers who wrestled at the highest levels.  Hence, it is more likely for rural teams to find success in states with an abundance of elite wrestlers to coach and build programs, such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey.  I think it is a safe assumption that if you venture into the rural parts of these elite states, you will find many more people who had successful wrestling careers who are coaching and supporting local programs compared to Kentucky. 

Correction....Claymont is not near Columbus, my mistake. 

For what it's worth, I disagree with the assertion that rural areas are disadvantaged in wrestling.  St Paris Graham, Claymont, Monroeville and a host of other Ohio schools are in rural areas and have done very well.  Granted St Paris Graham has virtual recruits, but the program was built with local kids and is not exactly in an urban area.

It can be done with hard work.

Correction....Claymont is not near Columbus, my mistake.

My point being that the opportunity to succeed is not dictated by geography.  Some of the worst programs in Ohio are in Cleveland, Akron etc, while some of the best are in rural areas.  Granted Ryle casts a large net and has great coaching and has done and will do well, but that doesn't mean rural kids cant compete.

I just wanted to state that I truly enjoyed the State Tournament last year and thought everyone did a wonderful job putting it together.  I thought it was a very positive environment...busy (what tournament wouldn't be with that many wrestlers involved), but very enjoyable.  I loved the music and watching the dancing Refs...they were great and kept the kids entertained the whole day.  We have to remember that this is a Youth Tournament and shouldn't be taken so seriously that you lose sight of that fact...it's about letting the kids have fun and learn to love this sport.  If you make it too serious it turns into a bootcamp environment and the kids will get burned out too quickly and never truly have a chance to enjoy and love it.

My only suggestion for this year would be to continue to keep it upbeat for the kids and the spectators.  We know it will run long...there really isn't a way to keep that from happening.  Therefore make it fun while it lasts.  :-D

We at SKY appreciate everything everyone is doing and has done to make the State Tourament for Youth happen.  I couldn't even imagine the headache it is to put on a Tourament of that magnitude. 

Good Luck to all wrestlers...see you on the 20th (or 19th if you'll also we watching HS)!

nkawtg135- I certainly have never stated that rural kids can't compete.  There are countless examples where teams from rural areas have been able to develop successful programs in all sports.  My main point is that all it takes to make a successful program is the right people (coaches, athletic directors, parents, kids) rural or urban.  It is my opinion, that urban areas have an advantage when it comes to getting the right people for obvious reasons, there are more people to choose from.  By no means is it a guarantee that a team will be successful because they are from a larger city. 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that some of the worst teams in Ohio are from Cleveland and Akron.  There are countless statistics out there to support that historically the overwhelming majority of Ohio's best wrestlers and teams have come from Northeast Ohio.  Almost every team champion in Ohio for all 3 divisions has always come from an urban area.  Some people consider St. Paris rural, but it is essentially a suburb of Dayton.  The same way Woodford County is a suburb of Lexington.

These posts have gotten a little sidetracked.  I just wanted to defend the efforts of some of the people involved with youth wrestling in Kentucky.  I wish everyone luck and hope every team meets their goals. 

I guess I dont understand the whole arguement going on here at all. It is a STATE tournament. Frankfort is central to the state and everyone is invited. It sounds like someone wants the store to stay open an hour later just cause they dont get off work till then. Seems more like someone needs to talk to the people in their local area to see if they can get the support instead of attacking others who have made the effort to do what it takes.Obviously the greater the population of an area the more resources available, that should not be an area of blame. I dont understand why WKY cant start their season earlier. We have high school wrestling coaches who assist our youth after finishing up with the high schoolers. Stop blaming others and take it upon yourselves. Not many companies cater to the needs of an individual, but more so to the needs of a goup as a whole and no companies build stores where there is no demand or customer base. So what are you expecting from youth wrestling?

Just want to thank all the parents, coaches, refs and others involved for helping to make these things possible, and for the continued support towards the growth of wrestling in Kentucky. I know I promote locally. What about you? (sorry but only locally because the only time I travel is to these other KY county tourneys)