I love the dungeon. But I want to revisit this issue. Where would be the likely landing of the state tournament next season? I suggested early the YUM Center. But what about Freedom Hall? I love Frankfort/Lexington area, but I personally feel it is time to make the tournament centrally located for everyone.

Opinions?

Horsepark, done deal

I suggested early the YUM Center. But what about Freedom Hall

I will say it again.....Louisville isn't centrally located!

I think the dungeon is a great place.  If it is going to move, I like the idea of it moving around the state.  Every region could have a chance at a little home field advantage.

I think the dungeon is a great place.  If it is going to move, I like the idea of it moving around the state.  Every region could have a chance at a little home field advantage.

3 year contracts for Western, Northern, Middle and Eastern parts of the state would make the most sense. 

The Horse Park would be a great place to change it to.  Lexington is located right in the middle of the state and has many great options for dinning and hotels.  I think Frankfort was a huge step up from Atherton, but it is still subpar.

with the change in start time on thursday, I think a venue like the horsepark with the ability to put more mats down is important.  And yes that option is real as Frankfort is becoming less willing to work with wrestling

I done told you all, it is already moving to the horse park. Supposed to start there next year I heard

I done told you all, it is already moving to the horse park. Supposed to start there next year I heard

2 days, 6 mats?

Don't know specifics but apparently wrestling was a big reason along with the biggest reason being the equestrian games that the new building at the horse park was built. It was extremely close to moving to owensboro (the center being the venue, and most people staying at this one big hotel until that main hotel closed) and switching back and forth with frankfort before this new building was built.

with them squeezing it into 2 and a half days this year on 4 mats.  They could do it in 2 days on 6 if the main floor is bigger than the dudgeon.

The Frankfort Convention Center was the worst venue I've ever seen for a state finals. 

Louisville is centrally located.  More schools are closer to the Ville than any other city in the state.  Population centers are what matters, not geography.

with them squeezing it into 2 and a half days this year on 4 mats.  They could do it in 2 days on 6 if the main floor is bigger than the dudgeon.

I keep hearing people talking about using a bigger location and finishing the tournament in two days.  People, the KHSAA doesn't want to make it any faster.  The setup for the tournament is about maximizing revenue, not finishing quickly.  Also, with an attendance of 4,300 or so, Freedom Hall or any larger facility would look empty.  We don't have the attendance to move anywhere larger.

IMO if you want wrestling to be treated as a 1st class sport, the state championships need to be held in a 1st class venue.  The convention center is NOT a 1st class venue. 

As far as the crowds....."if you build it, they will come"

Pridewrestler, it's not a done deal. I've talked with members from the KHSAA, and they are looking into 2 possibilities for next year: Horse Park in Lexington, and i think they said one of the arenas in NKU (can't remember the name). 2 members of the Coach's Association are going with them to look at the logistics. Also, the tournament will remain 3 days. that has never been up for discussion.

Pridewrestler, it's not a done deal. I've talked with members from the KHSAA, and they are looking into 2 possibilities for next year: Horse Park in Lexington, and i think they said one of the arenas in NKU (can't remember the name). 2 members of the Coach's Association are going with them to look at the logistics. Also, the tournament will remain 3 days. that has never been up for discussion.

So Frankfort is not even an option for next year?

I just heard what I put on here this weekend at the state tournament. Knew they were wanting to change the venue and forgot about them doing it until someone mentioned it again this weekend. He is right about NKU, but pretty sure the horse park is the destination they will most likely switch to.

There are issues with the venue.  Floor is too small for even 4 mats now that they have put in the rails, fans should not have to walk on competition floor to get their seats, no adequate warm up area for competitors, logistically not a suitable location, etc., etc., etc.    I have no issue with the 3 days and think the closeness of the fans make it a great atmosphere (but there is a difference between close to the competition and too close).  Saturday night is better every year.  I have been to a couple other state tournaments and nothing compares.  That is something we have to make sure is perserved and continues!  The Horse Park does sound like an interesting idea and it is centrally located...

I just love the way everyone from the Louisville area seems to think it is "centrally located"!  It is centrally located for the Louisville for the Louisville schools!  I wouldn't be against it being in northern KY.  That would be a change! (BTW I don't live in NKY!)

Apparently Louisville is considered central because they discount the presence of Region 8 in the east.

I understand the reasons to change the location. I just hope the people that make the decision think it all the way through. The atmosphere at the tournament has helped get a lot of young kids interested in the sport. I remember when my son was one of those goofy kids running around painted up in his school colors and saturday night he was wrestling in the finals. Change is good lets just make sure we are heading in the right direction.

When and if the tournament changes venue, the atmosphere will change as well. If the tournament is moved, I can guarantee you the pre final free for all will not be tolerated. Upon leaving the civic center i noticed paint all over the floor and walls and trash was ever where. I am also surprised no one was injured. Kids running around unsupervised pushing shoving and taunting other schools just waiting for a confrontation. I am shocked that the civic center has put up with this type of behavior for as long as they have.

Here's what I've been hearing over the last couple of weeks:

-- The contract with the Convention Center is apparently up after this year. Frankfort, more or less, might be out of the running.

-- They are looking at two venues: The Horse Park's new indoor arena in Lexington, and Northern Kentucky University's new basketball arena. Each building has floor space to hold six or more mats, which would shorten the time you guys are competing and having to watch your weight.

-- Switching from three days to two has been discussed. I've talked with Coach Canter, who's one of the coaches' association reps checking out the new venues, and he said it's probably a good possibility state will go to two days. The only drawback that I can think of is your hotel/restaurants aren't going to be right next door to the place.

Louisville IS NOT centrally located to everyone, no matter the population. The Frankfort/Lexington/Richmond area is more centrally located than anywhere else in the state. The Yum Center would be way too expensive, and Freedom Hall is too big -- even if they put curtains in area where fans won't be allowed to sit.

The atmosphere at Frankfort is what a lot of people love most. You most likely won't get that anywhere else.

I would love to see the tournament at NKU Bank of Kentucky Arena. It is a great facility.  However,  with school in session parking absolutely sucks, and there aren't enough places nearby to stay so everyone has to travel. Finally, I have a feeling that it would be too expensive to hold there.

I do understand the concerns for travel for some of the teams and families coming from the far reaches of the state  but from Frankfort to Lousiville it's only about an extra hour of commute time, and from frankfort to NKY it's about an hour and a half, which isn't that much more of a time/cost commitment.

I am from NKY, and it would be nice to sleep in my own bed during the tournament, so this may be biased, but to make an argument for NKU's arena there is plenty of hotels in the area.  While it doesn't have the connivence that the dungeon does with a short walk across the plaza, there are many hotels within a ten minute drive (many teams while in Frankfort are already opting to stay a few miles down the road).

There are also numerous restaurants near NKU's campus.  None of them compare to the breakfast buffet in the hotel restaurant in Frankfort, but there are options there.  I think since switching to the 32 man bracket and 3 days, more space for mats is needed.  They can keep the tournament at 3 days but it would significantly cut down on the round times if 6 or 8 mats could be rolled out. 

I think NKU is too far for the southern teams and doesn't feel "fair" to make them travel 3 to 4 hours to get to the venue.  Lexington... the Horse Park... in my opinion would be the best location.  I'd like to see it stay at 3 days... start with 6 mats and drop to 4 after the first 2 to 3 rounds... if you continue to run 6 mats you will have a real issue with several wrestlers from 1 school on multiple mats at the same time.  I know with 4 there were several times I saw Union County, Trinity, Ryle, and other schools with 2 to 3 wrestlers wrestling at the same time. 

On another note... the cost of the venue will likely determine the ultimate location.  I have heard... and it is definately 3rd or 4th hand... that the current location is provided at no charge to the KHSAA... hard to compete with that!

Louisville IS NOT centrally located to everyone, no matter the population. The Frankfort/Lexington/Richmond area is more centrally located than anywhere else in the state. The Yum Center would be way too expensive, and Freedom Hall is too big -- even if they put curtains in area where fans won't be allowed to sit.

I'm not for sure how you define "centrally located" in terms of population. But in any normal definition Louisville is MUCH more centrally located population wise than Frankfort/Lexington/Richmond area. The state of Kentucky has 4,339,367 people according to the 2010 census. Out of those 4.3 million people, 1,266,454 live in the Louisville Metropolitan Statistical Area. In the Louisville Metropolitan Statistical Area 269,096 people actually live in Indiana so if those people are removed then 997,358 people are KY residents in the Louisville Metropolitan Statistical Area. That comes out to 23.0% of the population who live in the Louisville MSA alone.

Since you use the term "Frankfort/Lexington/Richmond area" in your post I will use the Lexington-Fayette-Frankfort-Richmond, KY Combined Statistical Area (a very large region geographically) for population numbers. In that CSA there are 685,419 people. That comes out to 15.8% of the population.

We could further consider the top 10 cities in the state of Kentucky population wise that aren't already included and see which city they are geographically closer to.

1. Louisville - Included in the Louisville MSA

2. Lexington - Included in the Lexington CSA

3. Bowling Green - Closer to Louisville

4. Owensboro - Closer to Louisville

5. Covington -Closer to Lexington

6. Richmond - Included in the Lexington CSA

7. Hopkinsville - Closer to Louisville

8. Henderson - Closer to Louisville

9. Florence - Closer to Lexington

10. Frankfort - Included in the Lexington CSA

As you see. Of the six cities not already included four of them are closer to Louisville by more than 50 miles. The two that are closer to Lexington are only so by a mere 15 miles.

This is by no means a definitive study---but I think it's pretty clear that your original statement is false. When speaking in terms of population, Louisville is much more centrally located than the "Frankfort/Lexington/Richmond area".

While it looks like you did your research on the population numbers I noticed an issue with the results just for northern KY alone. All that is listed are covington and florence. your leaving out a whole bunch of citys in the area whose populations arn't accounted for in your numbers. Newport, Erlanger, Union, Hebron, Ft. wright, Ft. mitchell, Ft. thomas just to name a few.

While it looks like you did your research on the population numbers I noticed an issue with the results just for northern KY alone. All that is listed are covington and florence. your leaving out a whole bunch of citys in the area whose populations arn't accounted for in your numbers. Newport, Erlanger, Union, Hebron, Ft. wright, Ft. mitchell, Ft. thomas just to name a few.

None of those cities you mention are even in the top 15 which goes down to Radcliff with a population of 22,253. With such a low population comparatively speaking I don't think inclusion of those cities is necessary. For this, I was just looking at cities besides the ones in the two areas Josh mentioned that would have an impact on the overall numbers. When you further add that the NKY cities aren't more than 15 miles difference between Lexington and Louisville I feel that my statement would still stand that Louisville is much more centrally located in terms of population.

I hope that clears it up a little.

OK I did my research;

The population center of KY is in Washington Co. in the city of Willisburg.

If you take to two venues being talked about here (kentucky Horse Park and Freedom Hall) here is the raw data.

From Willisburg to Kentucky Horse Park 53.73 miles

From Willisburg to Freedom hall in Lou 53.64 miles.

Technically Lou Freedom Hall is closer but by less than a 10th of a mile.

Apparently Louisville is considered central because they discount the presence of Region 8 in the east.

By this logic having state in Frankfort discounts the presence of Region 1 in the west. By driving distance and time Region 1 is on average 204.33 miles and 209.92 minutes away from the Farnham Dudgeon. The longest drive distance/time in Region 1 from Farnham Dudgeon is Calloway County at 263 miles and 269 minutes.

In contrast, if the state was held in Louisville than Region 8 on average would be 190.17 miles and 205.50 minutes away from Louisville. The longest drive distance/time for Region 8 is Letcher County Central at 222 miles and 250 minutes.

So, by having the state tournament in Louisville as opposed to Frankfort we are actually asking Region 8 to take on LESS of a burden than what is currently asked of Region 1.

*All of these driving times/distances are provided by Google Maps and are of course approximations.

More research::::

The geographic center (GC) of Kentucky is between Sumersville and Bengal KY.

Now using that data.

Distance to Kentucky Horse Park from GC is 100.72 miles

Distance to Freedom Hall in Lou from GC is 77.84 miles

Both instances show Lou is more central. Sorry

From what I've been told, Louisville isn't in the running at this point. It's between the Horse Park and NKU.

The Yum Center would be too expensive and Freedom Hall would feel empty.

By this logic having state in Frankfort discounts the presence of Region 1 in the west. By driving distance and time Region 1 is on average 204.33 miles and 209.92 minutes away from the Farnham Dudgeon. The longest drive distance/time in Region 1 from Farnham Dudgeon is Calloway County at 263 miles and 269 minutes.

In contrast, if the state was held in Louisville than Region 8 on average would be 190.17 miles and 205.50 minutes away from Louisville. The longest drive distance/time for Region 8 is Letcher County Central at 222 miles and 250 minutes.

So, by having the state tournament in Louisville as opposed to Frankfort we are actually asking Region 8 to take on LESS of a burden than what is currently asked of Region 1.

*All of these driving times/distances are provided by Google Maps and are of course approximations.

It doesnt really matter to me either way, But how many teams are in region 8/region 1? Have you taken into consideration the wrestling community population and not just state census statistics? Just curious as to what you come up with

It doesnt really matter to me either way, But how many teams are in region 8/region 1? Have you taken into consideration the wrestling community population and not just state census statistics? Just curious as to what you come up with

Region 1 will have 13 teams next year if my numbers are correct. Fort Campbell, Hopkinsville, UHA, Christian County, Ohio County, Daviess County, Apollo, Trigg County, Caldwell County, Calloway County, Union County, Owensboro Senior (new), McCracken County (new high school, consolidating heath, reidland, and lone oak. They asked dennis walls to coach them but he has retired)

I think NKU would be a much longer drive for the region 1 people, right? Also, the parking and ease of use at NKU isn't good. At all. If Freedom Hall is too big, how about Broadbent Arena? It has all the fantastic Louisville amenities and is only slightly larger than the Dungeon. (6600 capacity I think). What is the capacity of the Horse Park facility? If KHSAA is interested in making the $$, I think there would be a much larger crowd of spectators if the championships were held in Louisville than anywhere else, hands down. I don't think the Horse Park has as convenient amenities as other places, even though the facility itself is nice.

Region 1 will have 13 teams next year if my numbers are correct. Fort Campbell, Hopkinsville, UHA, Christian County, Ohio County, Daviess County, Apollo, Trigg County, Caldwell County, Calloway County, Union County, Owensboro Senior (new), McCracken County (new high school, consolidating heath, reidland, and lone oak. They asked dennis walls to coach them but he has retired)

What about PT?

I think having it in NKY would surprise you on the numbers you would get. I for one would bring my youth team in Cincinnati to watch it and im sure others in the Cincinnati area would do the same. I think the number would be higher if you had it in louisville or NKU than they would be in lexington. As far as lodging I believe both louisville and NKY would be about the same. I'm sure NKU would work around the parking issue.

It doesnt really matter to me either way, But how many teams are in region 8/region 1? Have you taken into consideration the wrestling community population and not just state census statistics? Just curious as to what you come up with

Here are some randomn and unsolicited thoughts from one wrestling fan.

As far as Louisville is concerned I do agree that Freedom Hall and Yum! Center are not good options. Both facilities are too big to host an event that draws roughly 5k spectators for the finals. But I think Broadbent should be considered. I truly wish that there was a newer facility that seated around 5-7k spectators in Louisville that could host the event...because logically I think that Louisville is the best spot to hold the finals.

I also agree with the sentiments that the number of spectators would increase if held in Louisville. It's just common sense to think that if you hold an event in the state's largest population area that more people will show up.

I'm not opposed to NKU---even when considering the extra burden you'd be putting on practically every team for driving time. The huge positive is NKY is probably the most passionate wrestling area in the entire state and I think you'd see a very cool atmosphere and a bump in attendance.

One final idea that I don't think has been discussed anywhere. And this idea comes with just a rudimentary amount of thought right now...I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of rotation between the discussed sites and maybe even other places across the state. Some other sites to consider that haven't been mentioned are the Eastern Kentucky Exposition Center in Pikeville which seats roughly 7k people. How about The Arena in Corbin also? I believe it's similarly sized. And I'm sure there are several good spots in the western part of the state that are capable of hosting the event. If promoting the sport is the #1 concern then letting all areas of the state get a shot to host could really help to drive up the interest. Just a thought though and I will already acknowledge that this could be a logistics nightmare.

I actually like the idea of a rotating state tourny then revenue from the tourny would be spread throughout the state. I just wonder in todays day and age if any of the arenas would agree to a one year contract most places would want multiple years for max income.

The Eastern Kentucky Exposition Center would be a great venue for the finals. The seating is great, they could have up to 8 mats, etc. However, I dont think Pikeville has enough hotels/motels for this event. And of course it is not centrally located in the least bit.

What about PT?

thought about that right before I got off but was too tired to change it

In my rotation scenario for the western part of the state E.A. Diddle in Bowling Green and the Sportscenter in Owensboro both look to be good options.

In my rotation scenario for the western part of the state E.A. Diddle in Bowling Green and the Sportscenter in Owensboro both look to be good options.

I know it was supposedly very close to coming to Owensboro until that one big hotel, cant remember it's name, shut down. The sportscenter being the destination