the most dominate wrestlers i have seen in the past couple years are

1. murtons both walked all over everyone they wrestled

2. kyle ruschell

3. richard starks

4. travis sullivan

5. taylor schrer

I put Jacob Murton in that category. Jarius won confortably but did not dominate Austin Cooper in 05 by any means.

Jarod Trice

Nobody was close.

This year I would go with Richard Starks, he was not taken down in the state this year. I heard a story from one of his coaches that when the went to OHIO that someone either took him down or tried, but Richard sayed something like, that was the first time someone has touched my legs this year. That is impressing to me, to not be taken down in you state all year

This year I would go with Richard Starks' date=' he was not taken down in the state this year. I heard a story from one of his coaches that when the went to OHIO that someone either took him down or tried, but Richard sayed something like, that was the first time someone has touched my legs this year. That is impressing to me, to not be taken down in you state all year[/quote']

I think Starks got robbed big time for MOW at state. Richard was not taken down all year, he was undefeated in and out of state, and he is goin to a D-1 wrestling team (Army). Murton was defeated and he is only goin to a NAIA school(Campbellsville)

I think Starks got robbed big time for MOW at state. Richard was not taken down all year' date=' he was undefeated in and out of state, and he is goin to a D-1 wrestling team (Army). Murton was defeated and he is only goin to a NAIA school(Campbellsville)[/quote']

I guess you have a point. Murton did get beat three times this season. I guess getting beat by the three of the top 10 135's in the country really puts a damper on all your past accomplishments. Does the fact that he beat the Senior National champ at the Beast of the East strengthen his case for being voted MOW? I guess not....

Starks didn't see anywhere near the competition that Murton saw at the Beast. Throw Starks in there and see how he fairs....

brawler,

you're totally right. starks didn't dominate the state tourney the way murton did, nor did he go to beast of the east.

Then explain why Starks is wrestling for Army, a D-1 school, and Murton is wrestling for an in-state NAIA

Their decision on which college to attend has no bearing in this debate. I am sure Murton had a few offers to go DI, but he opted to join his brother at Campbellsville.

If Kyle Ruschell would have decide to go to Cumberland, or any small school for that matter, instead of Wisconsin, would that have made him any less of a high school wrestler? I think not.

Also, 2 of the 3 losses at the beast were from people that were seeded lower than him and hes not in the top 10 135's so how would those people be top 10

Dude, if you want to do this we can all day long. Did starks pin or tech everyone at state ? I don't think so. He was dominant, but didn't pin or tech through.

Seeded below Murton, so what ? He was the surprise of that tournament, that was mentioned in the post event write up, even placing. No one had heard of him. Obviously the high school national rankings were so accurate that well ... Murton was on no one's radar and placed up there amongst several who were ranked. You're qoting the same ranking system that that had others he either beat or took to the limit ranked with him nowhere to be seen, as evidence that he's not all that because a couple guys also off the same innacurate rankings beat him.

By the way, Murton wrestled Ryan Cubberly (from the Pemberville guys, nationally ranked team that took Woodford to the woodshed) to a one point loss. Cubberly teched Rusty Parks at the Hammer and Anvil that Woodford goes to (props for going there, i respect that), was ranked top 10 nationally, and Parks was the defending state champ that year. If you put starks on the pedestal of guys that can tech a wrestler the calibre of parks, you'll find a hard time having a lot of people back you on that. Murton, in hanging with him, is arguably on that pedestal and if not, very near it.

Lets analyze what the guys have done, not dog on the college they picked. I picked NKU over far more prestigious places i could have been accepted with my grades and test scores. While its not athletics, in principle its the same. So don't dog on the school he picked and assume Murton got no other offers. He very well might have. Some people like staying close to home, or have other personal reasons. To each his own.

And good luck to Starks ! This is not meant to be a Starks bash, he's very good.

True, Starks did not tech through, but he pinned all the way 2 the finals and then got a Major-Dec. in the finals. Murton also did not tech and pin through. You cant judge a wrestler by if they can tech or pin a lot of people. Some wrestlers have different styles that have been taught different ways by different coaches, not all wrestlers score a lot of points on anyone, some wrestlers just score a few points because they are good defensive wrestlers and are wrestling defensively the whole match. i never said anything about Starks being on a pedestal because he could tech people of parks caliber. The only thing that can be proven by saying that parks was teched by Cubberly and Murton hung with him is that Murton is better than Parks, so what does that have to do with Starks. However, I do put Starks on a pedestal for being a state champ 10, 11, and 12th grade and runner up 9th grade and winning Hammer and Anvil and being given the opportunity 2 wrestle for a D-1 college. If y'all dont remember, Robert Smith from Eastern wrestled Murton last year at state and had him on his back pinned and "hung" with him, but there was never any talk of him being on a pedestal. So, I dont think it is Valid for someone to say that since you can "hang" with someone good that should put you on a pedestal. I agree murton is a very good wrestler, but I also think many people in Kentucky enjoy the novelty of having a wrestler that used to wrestle in Ohio, a wrestling powerhouse.

What i'm saying, is that Starks would not have teched a wrestler of Parks' calibre. Murton wrestled that guy to a one pt loss, roughly makes them equal. Hence, Murton is roughly in the same league. I hope that clarifies my reasoning.

And oops, Murton won by 14, not a tech. But that was close to one. By your argument, all you are saying is maybe Smith was in Murton's league but edged out by a better wrestler. I also heard its debatable whether it was a pin or not.

Last two years Starks wasn't that dominant at state. Wenninger kept it close, and Robinson (Ryle) only lost by a point or something after having been hurt the majority of the year. Starks also got a LOT of help with Houze getting rolled by some guy after being up like 10 two years back. Houze had beaten him at the duels and was probably the man that year with Starks a close second. This was the only year he mauled everyone ... Murton did it pretty much all three ... with the exception of Smith and Jordan Lewis.

By the way, if you want to talk about pins ... Starks actually DID get pinned last year now that you bring it up. At the Hammer and Anvil. Murton didn't get pinned at Beast of the EAst, a far more prestigious and difficult tourney.

You can make a decent case that THIS year they were equally dominant .... with the edge to Murton because he actually went to some national tournaments and had limited success. With Starks we'll never know, but i guess he had good reasons for not goin. Regardless the reason, he still leaves an empty slate there. But, the two years before i don't see how you could argue starks over murton.

both of them are great wrestlers i have to say murton is a leep in front of all the wrestlers in kentucky starks is great to though and what abotu taylor schrer i think he was as deserving as any of them he was 3 time champion beat the tennessee champ he didnt dominate everyone but i dont see many peopledominating byrd or martinko they are brutes

Good point fella. I would still like to have seen Byrd / Sherer with them both healthy.

Maybe personal reason :idea:

If you don't think Jac could have gone to a D-1 school your :roll:

Both are great kids, why do you want to pity them against who is better :?:

Richard could have gone to Beast as-well :wink:

When was the last time anyone from Woodford went to the beast :?: No disrespect.

Would have been a good year for CO-MOW!

Both 3 timers, hard to say who was more deserving when they both had such great seasons and careers.

Would have been a good year for CO-MOW!

Both 3 timers' date=' hard to say who was more deserving when they both had such great seasons and careers.[/quote']

In 1981 (I think) Ervin and Clarkston were Co-MVW's.

Would have been a good year for CO-MOW!

Both 3 timers' date=' hard to say who was more deserving when they both had such great seasons and careers.[/quote']

I would concur with that.

they where both deserving of the mow wrestler there both great wrestlers and i have respect for them both but there where others deserving as well schrer 3 timer done great all threw high school going against the big guys pinning most of them and haveing trouble with a few but starks had his troubles with winneger murton with lewis and schrer with byrd and marintko also travis sullivan is great and could have won it to he is a 2 timer and wrestled good wrestlers parks is a great wrestler will win state before hes out of school adam carr is a great wrestlers to and they are both hard to score on so whos to say that he didnt deserve it any of these guys arw worthey but the right guy got it this year he dominated the state tournament like it has never been done his finals match was like a minute long and he destroyed everyone on his path to there

oww and the hole d-1 thing is boggase i have talked to murton and he could of went to ohio state if he had wanted and many others but desided to join his brother at cambellsiville

oww and the hole d-1 thing is boggase i have talked to murton and he could of went to ohio state if he had wanted and many others but desided to join his brother at cambellsiville

Y'all wanna talk about who got better competition, but how is murton getting better competition at a NAIA college

He won't. But we're talking about high school with respect to dominance.

Oh my!!!!!!!! give it a rest.

Where they are going had absolutely nothing to do with how good a wrestler they are.

Starks is not going to Army for just wrestling. Where you are offered depends on several factors that sometimes do not have anything to do with your wrestling ability.

Personal preference also has a lot to do with it. Murton has the same chances of Starks at becoming a better wrestler. It may only be NAIA but there are still tough wrestlers in that division.

Lets take a look at what each accomplised. This is why I believe Murton deserved the MOW.

1. Murton moved to a school that did not have wrestling until he got there.

---Starks wrestled 4 years at a rich wrestling school

2. Murton had one drill/wrestling partner for his Soph. and Jr. year (Brother Murton)

--- Starks had numerous drill/wrestling partners from coaches, alumni, and wrestlers that were able to push him.

3. Murton went on his own without his team to some national tough tourneys.

--- Starks stayed with his team and was able to use that team support.

4. Three years no-one close to him./ Fresh year was an accomplished wrestler in Ohio (I personally hate this part of the equation)

--- Starks Fresh. year was on the weak side of the bracket to make the finals. Soph year (Houze chokes) Jr. Sr. year is domianant but some were able to hang with him.

I am absolutely not taking anything from Starks I believe he was one of the best wrestlers with class that came from

Woodford Co., But Murton was the more deserving. IMO

If houze got rolled thats his fault. There is nothing Starks couldve done to keep Houze from getting rolled. Starks did what he had to so he could make the finals. If Houze got rolled that is his fault and Starks should have been called lucky because he did his job and made it to the finals and won

You're right. But, Starks hardly dominated that year. No crap there's nothing starks could do about houze getting rolled, as they say ... stay on guard. But houze beat him head to head, remember that and there was something he could have done about that. Thats how it went head to head. If starks beat Houze that year, i'm not aware of it. In comparison Jordan Lewis was the only guy that was within striking distance of Murton that year, if you call losing 10-4 that.

Please remember, Murton never lost to anyone from Ky. And that includes dominating that insane 135 pound class from 05. I think it may have been tougher than 145 this year. Banks, Smith, Howard, Cooper, Mines, and Ervin ... not only did he not lose to any of those guys .. he mostly trounced all of them. 9-4 was as close as it got. I don't know of anyone else that even got a whiff of him, if you count losing 9-4 as being there.

Starks did lose a couple, but thats nothing to be ashamed of though !! And he had all the advantages grappler mentioned, kind of the difference between Drago's and Rocky's training equipment in Rocky 4. No offense to Lawrence Co intended. Look at Woodford, they run things like a Ken Chertow camp.

And as i once stated, good luck to Starks. I intend this to be as just saying how good Murton is, not a knock on Starks. He was very accomplished ... i just think all this overwhelmingly supports murton being better.

If we're talking about MOW at state, then only those 3 days matter. That said, Murton completely overpowered everyone that stepped on the mat with him. In the semis, Ashbrook wrestled his tail off and lost by what, 14. Let's say they were even going into the finals. Jacob stepped it up a notch and destroyed Griggs. Starks was fairly dominant, but I think it was nearly impossible to overcome the impression left by Murton.

I agree with the Co-MOW. But it has to get voted that way by the coaches. Scherer was a close #3, but never gave you that wow that made him the obvious choice.

Good points Ranger, the votes were based on the 3 days of wrestling, hands down most dominant Murton.

This board discussion seems to refer to the award as based on their high school career. Alot of outstanding seniors moving on this year.

It was 8-1 with 15 seconds left and Ashbrook let him up and got thrown to his back on an attempted takedown. Murton i think showed the dominance and deserved the MOW

Good points Ranger' date=' the votes were based on the 3 days of wrestling, hands down most dominant Murton.

This board discussion seems to refer to the award as based on their high school career. Alot of outstanding seniors moving on this year.[/quote']

Can't argue with any of that.

If we're talking about MOW at state' date=' then only those 3 days matter.[/quote']

This is open for debate.

The most outstanding wrestler does not mean the one who had the best state tourney. If that is the case then a person who opsets someone in the finals will recieve the award over a more deserving wrestler.

This exact thing has happened a couple of times. I think this takes the award away from the best wrester in the state, which IMO is what the award is for.

Isnt the award the

KHSAA State Tournament Most Outstanding Wrestler?

Just like any other tournament MOW based on the performance at the event.

If an award were based on career or the season it should probaly be like the "Mr. Basketball" or "Mr. Football" awards based on overall achievement.

How about a the "Kentucky Wrestler of the Year" award or something like that?

Better yet, The KentuckyWrestling.com, Wrestler of the Year Award!

Isnt the award the

KHSAA State Tournament Most Outstanding Wrestler?

Just like any other tournament MOW based on the performance at the event.

If an award were based on career or the season it should probaly be like the "Mr. Basketball" or "Mr. Football" awards based on overall achievement.

How about a the "Kentucky Wrestler of the Year" award or something like that?

Better yet' date=' The KentuckyWrestling.com, Wrestler of the Year Award![/quote']

Not a bad idea. Do you think the coaches or state would go for that?

that's an awesome idea!! i bet the coaches would go for it. especially if it was paid for already by kentuckywrestling.com (through donations).

Be a nice award to recognize a wrestler for something in addition to being an excellent wrestler, such as grades, service etc.....

A good way to say grades are important!

The MOW award at the state tournament is based upon performance at the state tournament, having nothing to do with the rest of the year. However, if you have an outstanding year, coaches will take note of that personally and could obviously influence their vote at the tournament.

I have thought about having a wrestler of the year for the site. I just haven't done it because as most of you know I don't have many helpers and I wouldn't want it to be too bias.

If the coaches would get more involved we could have a coaches poll to find out who should receive such an award

Isnt the award the

KHSAA State Tournament Most Outstanding Wrestler?

Just like any other tournament MOW based on the performance at the event.

If an award were based on career or the season it should probaly be like the "Mr. Basketball" or "Mr. Football" awards based on overall achievement.

How about a the "Kentucky Wrestler of the Year" award or something like that?

Better yet' date=' The KentuckyWrestling.com, Wrestler of the Year Award![/quote']

I know of many coaches that considet this "MOW" award the "Mr Wrestling", (Myself included) This is why many of the 3 time champions earn the award thier Sr. year if they have not already won it.

Ex. Knable his senior year. Not the most dominant at the tourney, but was 4 time state champion., Bruce Stepp finally won it his senior year because of being a 3 time champ.

Scott Cooper won it in 2003 after an outstanding performance beating Luke Metzker in the finals.

Also, Josh Stepp won it in 1998 after being considered not the #1 pick but having an outstanding turnout at the state tournament pinning most of his opponents.

Scott Cooper won it in 2003 after an outstanding performance beating Luke Metzker in the finals.

Also' date=' Josh Stepp won it in 1998 after being considered not the #1 pick but having an outstanding turnout at the state tournament pinning most of his opponents.[/quote']

There are examples for both casses.

1990 (Migliachio) winning because he deffeated/upset Ennells (I believed Mig. was the better wrestler anyway),instead of Zinga who was probably the most dominant that year and tourney.

1991 (Cassleman) winning because he upset Burtleson instead of many other deserving that year (Martz<Kenper<B. Selke)

This is why it is a debate, most believe (more than 50%), its the tourney but a good deal of coaches believe it is also the (Mr. Wrestling)

Maybe its time for a change.

Mr. Wrestling of Kentucky and the TOURNAMENT MOW.

Nice idea, but it won't happen if it requires the coaches to get together, agree on it, and act. They are too fragmented a group and that isn't going to change under the current leadership. This goes right along with the state tournament seeding discussion. Great ideas that can't happen because people are afraid of disagreements and a little work.

Alot of those "Mr. Wrestler" type awards in other sports turn into popularity contest between a group of the best players, but its great exposure for their sport and would be for wrestling too!

Alot of those "Mr. Wrestler" type awards in other sports turn into popularity contest between a group of the best players' date=' but its great exposure for their sport and would be for wrestling too![/quote']

That's right. It's just another article in the Courier Journal or Lexington Herald or Kentucky Post or "name your favorite paper" when a local guy wins it.

Nice idea' date=' but it won't happen if it requires the coaches to get together, agree on it, and act. They are too fragmented a group and that isn't going to change under the current leadership. This goes right along with the state tournament seeding discussion. Great ideas that can't happen because people are afraid of disagreements and a little work.[/quote']

I have to apologize to all of the coaches for this quote. I got a little worked up. I know there are a lot of coaches who give a lot of their time and effort for this sport for very little pay. They do it because they love the sport. I know because I have been there. I just get upset when these sort of topics come up and I think about how our coaches association is so unorganized or at least doesn't include everyone. And as far as I can tell, gets nothing done as an organization. Aside from Coach Fizer trying to get an email list put together what has the coaches association done in the last 10 years?

No offense taken Ranger;

It is one of my pet peeves also. I find its the haves and have nots with little or no middle ground.

There are about 10 coaches that pretty much run the system, not just because they force there way (even though some do), its becuase the other coaches allow them to.

The biggest problem we have with the Coaches Asoc. is that there are not enough big teams in Ky. I would guess that there are only about 15-25 teams that have more than 20 wrestlers on their entire high school team. There are also about 15-20 teams that probably have around 10 wrestlers on their high school team.

These teams also change coaches to often.

As for what has the coaches Assoc. done. They maintain the State Duals tourney. They also maintain the Small School State Team title.

Mr. Coomes and Mr. Fiser have worked their tails of to try and get more coaches involved, but I think most of these coaches have a hard enough time trying to maintain their own team, with little support to try and help get something done on the state level.

It's a catch 22. Do everything you can to save/keep a team or try and imporve Ky as a state.

No offense taken Ranger;

It is one of my pet peeves also. I find its the haves and have nots with little or no middle ground.

There are about 10 coaches that pretty much run the system' date=' not just because they force there way (even though some do), its becuase the other coaches allow them to.

The biggest problem we have with the Coaches Asoc. is that there are not enough big teams in Ky. I would guess that there are only about 15-25 teams that have more than 20 wrestlers on their entire high school team. There are also about 15-20 teams that probably have around 10 wrestlers on their high school team.

These teams also change coaches to often.

As for what has the coaches Assoc. done. They maintain the State Duals tourney. They also maintain the Small School State Team title.

Mr. Coomes and Mr. Fiser have worked their tails of to try and get more coaches involved, but I think most of these coaches have a hard enough time trying to maintain their own team, with little support to try and help get something done on the state level.

It's a catch 22. Do everything you can to save/keep a team or try and imporve Ky as a state.[/quote']

I don't think size matters (no joke intended here). If you want people involved, involve everyone. I coached just down the road from these guys (literally) and never was involved in any way. I payed my dues and the only contact I had with Mr. Coomes outside of a meet was at the region seed meeting or the coaches meeting at state. I know the big teams really drive a lot of what happens, but what how different would KY wrestling have been the last few years without a Lawrence County or Southern. The little teams matter no matter what the big guys think.

I'll give you the state duals. That's pretty awesome. But the small school state team title. A monkey could handle that. And I'm not sure it means that much. Ask Fiser if he was happy to get that title. Or ask Larue if they would have been satisfied with it (or will be next season). It would mean something if it was the small roster title, because school size doesn't seem to impact the top teams that much in wrestling.

I didn't mean that the coaches assoc. did not involve the coaches. I'm saying the coaches from small schools don't involve themselves.

I know im a little late as far as Starks getting robbed post goes...this is all very true about where he is going what he did during the season but the fact of the matter is its not Most Outstanding Wrestler of the year its what you did in the tourn. and Murton dominated with true class...This is no offense to Richard he is a heck of a wrestler and will be a huge contributor at the Academy. If you want to go back to the rest of the season though....Murton was defeated because of tournaments like the Best of the East he wrestled in....Plain and simple

I'm not sure how wrestling in one of the BEST tournaments in the year and still doing well can make your yearly performance worse. Just wrestling in the beast is something to be proud of.

I didn't mean that the coaches assoc. did not involve the coaches. I'm saying the coaches from small schools don't involve themselves.

How are coaches supposed to involve themselves. Like you said, you have to do all you can just to field a team and keep the school from shutting it down. So I don't see how the little guys are supposed to carry the load to get stuff done. Plus, we're not the ones with an assistant coach for each weight class.

I didnt mean it made him worse dont get me wrong. My point was his losses in the season came from some of the best wrestlers in the country

Derek Mollette was the best wrestler I even seen.