Since the MS State tourney has been completed and spring meetings are around the corner, what are some possible rule changes that could positively affect MS wrestling in the state of KY? What do we need to do to get ourselves to the level of some of the surrounding states? Thoughts?

I don't believe there are any rules changes that we can make that will elevate our level to be on par with surrounding states. I think the key is to continue to get exposure for our top kids to the best competition possible. So we need to take advantage of opportunities like Team KY and get the most out of those efforts.

I would like to see a rule put in place that if a wrestler qualifies for high school state that they should not be eligible for middle school state. If a wrestler is good enough to wrestle at the high school varsity level and the coaches and parents agree to put him/her there, they should stay there.

Middle School post season takes place prior to all high school post season. This rule would only apply to those who qualified for h.s. State the year before. So an 8th grader could wrestle middle school then qualify for high school state and be fine but the 7th grader who did the same would be ineligible for middle school the next year. Doesn't make sense to me.

I understand what you are saying and of course this is an open discussion forum for thoughts and ideas. How about this way then. If a middle school wrestlers wrestles at the high school varsity level, then they are not eligible for middle school tournaments. I believe they have a rule of this nature in high school football. I am not 100% sure of the rule, but I think it is something like, "if a football player is a started on varsity defense, they are not allowed to play that position on JV." Again, not 100% sure of the rule.

I dont think the rules are a problem. I would like to see more kids participate in off season events. Most of the better wrestlers in the state wrestle in the off season wether it be in KY or elsewhere. For the most part, tournaments are held in KY on a weekly basis, but most of them suck due to a lack of participation. Its like any other sport where what you do in the off season can help determine how you will do during the regular season.

I understand what you are saying and of course this is an open discussion forum for thoughts and ideas. How about this way then. If a middle school wrestlers wrestles at the high school varsity level, then they are not eligible for middle school tournaments. I believe they have a rule of this nature in high school football. I am not 100% sure of the rule, but I think it is something like, "if a football player is a started on varsity defense, they are not allowed to play that position on JV." Again, not 100% sure of the rule.

What about kids who live in Jefferson Co. who arent allowed to wrestle in high school but are good enough to if they were given the opportunity? Still doesnt make sense. Thats like saying if a kid wrestles at middle school state he shouldnt be allowed to participate at youth state even tho he falls under the guidelines. Dont try to punish a kid just because hes good at what he does. He might be a middle school champ and not even place at the high school level.

. He might be a middle school champ and not even place at the high school level.

That has already happened this year.

I would like to see a rule put in place that if a wrestler qualifies for high school state that they should not be eligible for middle school state. If a wrestler is good enough to wrestle at the high school varsity level and the coaches and parents agree to put him/her there, they should stay there.

OK, got it, so why do you want to penalize a kid because he is good or the high school team doesn’t have a wrestler in that weigh class or even say the region isn’t strong? Props to the young man or girl for working hard.

So now we wantto hold him back all year to beat middle school kids; gain less experience and the high school forfeits the same weight class at regions? Na

I understand what you are saying and of course this is an open discussion forum for thoughts and ideas. How about this way then. If a middle school wrestlers wrestles at the high school varsity level, then they are not eligible for middle school tournaments. I believe they have a rule of this nature in high school football. I am not 100% sure of the rule, but I think it is something like, "if a football player is a started on varsity defense, they are not allowed to play that position on JV." Again, not 100% sure of the rule.

Middle School isn't JV. If the kid is still in Middle School and is good enough to do both, let him do it. If it's effecting your kid or your wrestler, encourage him to work harder and get better.

I would like to see a rule put in place that if a wrestler qualifies for high school state that they should not be eligible for middle school state. If a wrestler is good enough to wrestle at the high school varsity level and the coaches and parents agree to put him/her there, they should stay there.

I can understand what you are thinking here. But before anyone gets upset and says that this idea isn’t fair, it would clear up some issues I see facing our sport in KY in regard to this issue . While I understand it is not fair to punish a kid for being too good, that is not the intention. Think about it this way, if your son is an 8^th grader and has a great chance to be the state champ in MS, than let him be an 8^th grader and finish his MS years as an 8^th grader or let him go to the HS level and give it his best shot. We hear everyone say, well my son is a good HS wrestler and should be allowed to do both, but choose one or the other and move forward. How fair is it to the other 8^th graders to not get a chance to face the best in the state if the best in the state is spending most of their season at the HS level and only dropping down for the District/Region/State events? We all want wrestling in Kentucky to grow and be the best it can be, but the only way it can be the best is if the best are there during the year to compete.

Another challenge that I see is the team/club status. I understand why this was put in place and do believe it was set up with the best of intentions. However, I do think the idea has become somewhat diluted as we are moving forward. While I think KY has been very smart in doing awards for both clubs and teams at the state level, we have two groups competing by different sets of rules. Teams are by definition kids that go to one school or are from a youth program that feeds the school directly. These kids are required to keep their grades up and meet the schools expectations for participation in MS wrestling. While a club can consist of kids from several schools and to the best of my knowledge no grade reporting is required. These kids are going to school to learn, not wrestle. What rules are in place to stop a person from putting together an all star team, calling it a club and pulling the talent from the local teams thus diluting the talent pool while cleaning up at any tournaments they attend. Also, I know of several cases where kids from a school with a program in place are going to other programs because they are a better program. How does each school’s programs get better if kids are not wrestling for the school that they attend? While I understand that parents want to put their kids in the best position to be successful, but how in the world is this helping our sport?

I believe this is exactly why the schedule Middle School Reg, Dist. and State are on the calendar so they do not conflict with high school and they can do both…..

If you want to prevent middle school wrestling in both events just put Middle school State on the same day as high school regions then they have to choose one or the other.

I believe it’s wrong to do that….

ThunderstruckX2 - So, are you just stating your opinion or plan on proposing something different should be done and what that would be or look like? I didn't hear of a better more efficient way of doing so.

ThunderstruckX2 - So, are you just stating your opinion or plan on proposing something different should be done and what that would be or look like? I didn't hear of a better more efficient way of doing so.

All I am trying to do is initiate good level headed conversation about what we can do to promote growth in the sport. I’m not on hear to fight or argue but would like some intelligent dialogue and different ideas so if a rule change is proposed, it gives everyone a chance to get ideas to the surface to make a good informed decision moving forward.

All I am trying to do is initiate good level headed conversation about what we can do to promote growth in the sport. I’m not on hear to fight or argue but would like some intelligent dialogue and different ideas so if a rule change is proposed, it gives everyone a chance to get ideas to the surface to make a good informed decision moving forward.

I appreciate a good discussion and there is not a reason to fight or argue about it, but I just wanted to hear if you had an idea to make an improvement from the current situation. The Club\School issue actually seems to work pretty well. The only thing that would ever separate them completely is to run two separate tourneys for each. I'm not convinced there is enough participation yet to do that. As for the kids that are in the clubs, they have the freedom to go where they feel it is a better fit for them with a program, the coaches and the caliber of wrestling or wrestlers that are at a program. As for the school programs, they have an advantage as well. They get to pick the kids out of the school halls and develop those kids and have a school tie that a club may or may not have. I don't think either situation has an overly large advantage over each other. I haven't seen a Club or a School program dominate year, after year, after year yet to warrant a major change. Ryle won the overall last year as a club and Campbell Co won the overall as a school. I personally don't think it's diluted to say the least. Ask any of the teams that took home a State Trophy if they feel that way and don't think they earned that hardware. Can't imagine they would.

Are the MAJORITY of middle schoolers on the same level of physical and mental maturity as high schoolers? Not some, but the majority.

I can understand what you are thinking here. But before anyone gets upset and says that this idea isn’t fair, it would clear up some issues I see facing our sport in KY in regard to this issue . While I understand it is not fair to punish a kid for being too good, that is not the intention. Think about it this way, if your son is an 8^th grader and has a great chance to be the state champ in MS, than let him be an 8^th grader and finish his MS years as an 8^th grader or let him go to the HS level and give it his best shot. We hear everyone say, well my son is a good HS wrestler and should be allowed to do both, but choose one or the other and move forward. How fair is it to the other 8^th graders to not get a chance to face the best in the state if the best in the state is spending most of their season at the HS level and only dropping down for the District/Region/State events? We all want wrestling in Kentucky to grow and be the best it can be, but the only way it can be the best is if the best are there during the year to compete.

Another challenge that I see is the team/club status. I understand why this was put in place and do believe it was set up with the best of intentions. However, I do think the idea has become somewhat diluted as we are moving forward. While I think KY has been very smart in doing awards for both clubs and teams at the state level, we have two groups competing by different sets of rules. Teams are by definition kids that go to one school or are from a youth program that feeds the school directly. These kids are required to keep their grades up and meet the schools expectations for participation in MS wrestling. While a club can consist of kids from several schools and to the best of my knowledge no grade reporting is required. These kids are going to school to learn, not wrestle. What rules are in place to stop a person from putting together an all star team, calling it a club and pulling the talent from the local teams thus diluting the talent pool while cleaning up at any tournaments they attend. Also, I know of several cases where kids from a school with a program in place are going to other programs because they are a better program. How does each school’s programs get better if kids are not wrestling for the school that they attend? While I understand that parents want to put their kids in the best position to be successful, but how in the world is this helping our sport?

You are totally forgetting the home-schooled. It is becoming more and more, not to mention easier to do than ever before. I know that in West Virginia the court declared a home-schooled child could wrestle on a high school team that was in his district. Just because they are home-schooled doesn't mean they don't pay taxes and aren't US citizens.

I appreciate a good discussion and there is not a reason to fight or argue about it, but I just wanted to hear if you had an idea to make an improvement from the current situation. The Club\School issue actually seems to work pretty well. The only thing that would ever separate them completely is to run two separate tourneys for each. I'm not convinced there is enough participation yet to do that. As for the kids that are in the clubs, they have the freedom to go where they feel it is a better fit for them with a program, the coaches and the caliber of wrestling or wrestlers that are at a program. As for the school programs, they have an advantage as well. They get to pick the kids out of the school halls and develop those kids and have a school tie that a club may or may not have. I don't think either situation has an overly large advantage over each other. I haven't seen a Club or a School program dominate year, after year, after year yet to warrant a major change. Ryle won the overall last year as a club and Campbell Co won the overall as a school. I personally don't think it's diluted to say the least. Ask any of the teams that took home a State Trophy if they feel that way and don't think they earned that hardware. Can't imagine they would.

I can see your point too, but I guess I don’t understand how a school team can improve if the kids that they have are allowed to go to different club to compete. Since this is a school league, isn’t the sport better off mandating kids wrestle for their own program? I do think that if a program is available at their own school, they should be required to compete in house, so to speak. If the sport isn’t offered at their school, than this is the entire reason to join a club.

You are totally forgetting the home-schooled. It is becoming more and more, not to mention easier to do than ever before. I know that in West Virginia the court declared a home-schooled child could wrestle on a high school team that was in his district. Just because they are home-schooled doesn't mean they don't pay taxes and aren't US citizens.

In my eyes, that is the perfect situation for a kid to join a club team. Again & I know I keep going back to this, if a wrestler goes to a school with a program in place, why are we allowing them to go to a different program and how is that helping the sport?

Let’s say for a minute that I am a multi-millionaire with tons of money to burn. I start a club team in NKY and offer to pay all the fees associated with wrestling as well as hotels and incidentals for anyone good enough to be my number 1. Bring in the top coaches from around the country, pay them well and pay each kid depending on how they finish in KY and nationally. I bet this would cause several teams in the NKY area to lose top flight wrestlers from their program, thus prompting a change to club rules.

Ok, back to reality. I know this seems very farfetched but it brings me back to my original point. The clubs were set up to allow kids without a program a chance to compete. Kids that go to a school with a program in place need to stay home to be part of the school program they are associated with. Again, just looking at ways to make our sport even better for all the kids.

In my eyes, that is the perfect situation for a kid to join a club team. Again & I know I keep going back to this, if a wrestler goes to a school with a program in place, why are we allowing them to go to a different program and how is that helping the sport?

Because someone of importance thinks that is better for the kid. Besides, when it comes time for high school, they will be getting a better wrestler if, as you posted earlier the club is a better program. I don't think you should limit the options of our children as to how they want to improve themselves as a person and a wrestler.

Let’s say for a minute that I am a multi-millionaire with tons of money to burn. I start a club team in NKY and offer to pay all the fees associated with wrestling as well as hotels and incidentals for anyone good enough to be my number 1. Bring in the top coaches from around the country, pay them well and pay each kid depending on how they finish in KY and nationally. I bet this would cause several teams in the NKY area to lose top flight wrestlers from their program, thus prompting a change to club rules.

Ok, back to reality. I know this seems very farfetched but it brings me back to my original point. The clubs were set up to allow kids without a program a chance to compete. Kids that go to a school with a program in place need to stay home to be part of the school program they are associated with. Again, just looking at ways to make our sport even better for all the kids.

This would only be possible at the middle school level. Who wouldn't take advantage of the top coaches, travel etc..? What parent is going to screw around with a 12 year old's amateur status? If you limit these club options for middle school, it is my belief the high school program will suffer in the long run.

I will chime in on this one being my son went to North Oldham and wrestled for Rivercity.Last year when he was at North there were several coaches that did not send kids out to wrestle him,for fear of getting their wrestler hurt and I totally agree with their thinking.A new wrestler that maybe in the 4th or 5th grade wrestling a 2x state champ.But by the same token what good does that do for my son.In the end I think it hurt him badly by the way he lost the state finals in 2011..So this year we were not going to wrestle middle school at all and he was to light to wrestle high school.We were just going to do out of state club and nationals.He did not like the way last year ended so he on his own called Rivercity to see if they would let him come there.It was for 3 reasons they had a lot of good small practice partners , we are considering going to ST.X and a couple of things happened at the school I didn't like.It was nothing against Norths wrestling team or coaches..I think parents have the right to get their kids as good as they can be.North had a very good team this year but their best kids were to heavy for him to practice with..We know when you get to high school there is no moving around,unless it is at Campbell Co.(LOL) I just couldn't help from saying that.

ThunderstruckX2 - So, you are telling me that if your kid is a stud and has to wrestle and compete for a team (School) because he has to....like in HS, and they have less than qualified coaches, personal conflicts, cake schedule, garbage facilities, no one to push you kid in the room to get better, ect...you're telling me that you wouldn't prefer to bring your stud of a kid to a program that fit his needs better and help him progess in the sport. Personally, I believe not.

To your first point...that actually happens in VA...ex: Grundy....Go Red! They are a decent team, but by no means a powerhouse like St Eds.

I aggree with Thunderstuck, we need to develop school teams and place an importance on scholastic teams, Club teams are important because they get kids to wrestle that dont have programs or like in Jefferson Co, where there isnt sanctioned middle school wrestling, all programs in theroy are clubs. I believe if a kid goes to a school they should wrestle for that school if they have a program. I understand the passion for the sport but we are promoting "middle school wrestling" which means there is a scholastic meaning to this, just like the high school programs, this is a scholastic based season. I coach soccer on both the scholastic and club level, and the best players do both and with the same passion. Club programs can already draw from a huge population base, to take from a school team that only can draw from a small population just isnt right.

As the head coach of a school team and parent of a kid on a school team, here are my 2 cents...

1) i do not like to see kids get pulled away from their school programs to participate on club teams, BUT I am a supporter of doing what is best for your kids, so if that means they need to move to a club team to get better coaching, partners, schedule, etc. then so be it. If a school team is losing kids to a local club team then they need to step up their game to retain the better kids.

2) i think the perception of the club teams is worse than the reality. many of the ms club teams are really school teams (majority of their kids) that allow kids outside their school district to participate on the team. At CC we don't allow kids in private/catholic schools in our county to participate on the team. Union does. We lose out on potentially getting a kid hooked on the sport in ms and them coming to CCHS due to the wrestling program. Union may get that kid or at least benefit from their participation through ms.

Bottom line for me is this. Yes, a few school teams are hurt by a club team pulling a kid or two away, but they also provide a needed service for many kids out there who do not have school teams to participate with. Do they have an advantage? Yes. Does that hurt the sport? Not at all. In fact I think it helps, by pushing school teams like ours to get better to be able to compete. And if we create new rules that limit participation on club teams all we would see is a reduction in the number of clubs and less participation overall.

You want to make everyone better, switch all teams to clubs teams. Let everyone go where they want and run all tournaments on weekends as opens. Everyone is wanting to raise the talent across the state. Well doing it this way will have some new wrestlers competeing against better kids, but it will also allow EVERY kid that practices monday thru friday an opportunity to wrestle every weekend. Your better kids will also still get to wrestle against kids with similar talent by advancing to the later rounds in the brackets. If we really want to raise the talent level across the board in the state, you need to keep kids interested in the sport. Many of the tournaments we run throughout the year are ran as duals. When you do that there is only one kid per weight per school wrestling. Running open brackets allows multiple kids per weight, per club the opportunity to wrestle at least 2 matches every weekend. The chance to work hard during the week, with the chance to at least compete every weekend will raise the talent level across the state. The top kids in this state are good and could compete at a high level in many places throughout the nation,but the next level down falls off fast. Yes it is getting better every year but you guys are asking for suggestions.

As the head coach of a school team and parent of a kid on a school team, here are my 2 cents...

1) i do not like to see kids get pulled away from their school programs to participate on club teams, BUT I am a supporter of doing what is best for your kids, so if that means they need to move to a club team to get better coaching, partners, schedule, etc. then so be it. If a school team is losing kids to a local club team then they need to step up their game to retain the better kids.

2) i think the perception of the club teams is worse than the reality. many of the ms club teams are really school teams (majority of their kids) that allow kids outside their school district to participate on the team. At CC we don't allow kids in private/catholic schools in our county to participate on the team. Union does. We lose out on potentially getting a kid hooked on the sport in ms and them coming to CCHS due to the wrestling program. Union may get that kid or at least benefit from their participation through ms.

Bottom line for me is this. Yes, a few school teams are hurt by a club team pulling a kid or two away, but they also provide a needed service for many kids out there who do not have school teams to participate with. Do they have an advantage? Yes. Does that hurt the sport? Not at all. In fact I think it helps, by pushing school teams like ours to get better to be able to compete. And if we create new rules that limit participation on club teams all we would see is a reduction in the number of clubs and less participation

overall.

Union does have a private school that has 30 boys in their middle school. But they are also a direct feeder into Union County High School along with union county middle. Even with the two school put together they only pull from 230 boys. So when you look at the number of boys in middle school from Campbell and Union I bet Campbell would have a larger pull of boys to pick from. I am guessing because CC is a large school and Union is a small school. I could be wrong but I bet they have more boys in their middle school then Union does with both private and public combined.

Also Union County only has one high school so everyone goes there.

You want to make everyone better, switch all teams to clubs teams. Let everyone go where they want and run all tournaments on weekends as opens. Everyone is wanting to raise the talent across the state. Well doing it this way will have some new wrestlers competeing against better kids, but it will also allow EVERY kid that practices monday thru friday an opportunity to wrestle every weekend. Your better kids will also still get to wrestle against kids with similar talent by advancing to the later rounds in the brackets. If we really want to raise the talent level across the board in the state, you need to keep kids interested in the sport. Many of the tournaments we run throughout the year are ran as duals. When you do that there is only one kid per weight per school wrestling. Running open brackets allows multiple kids per weight, per club the opportunity to wrestle at least 2 matches every weekend. The chance to work hard during the week, with the chance to at least compete every weekend will raise the talent level across the state. The top kids in this state are good and could compete at a high level in many places throughout the nation,but the next level down falls off fast. Yes it is getting better every year but you guys are asking for suggestions.

One thing I really prefer about duals over individuals is that there is usually less down time. I've found that my son usually performs better at duals because he has less time in between matches and has the excitement of cheering on his teammates as hes waiting. At individuals you may have hours (we have waited more than 5 hours before) before wrestling, or in between, watching kids you dont know. I understand what you're saying but I've also been at tournaments where the brackets of only some of the weight classes were strong and the rest of the brackets (usually round robins) pretty much sucked.

One thing I really prefer about duals over individuals is that there is usually less down time. I've found that my son usually performs better at duals because he has less time in between matches and has the excitement of cheering on his teammates as hes waiting. At individuals you may have hours (we have waited more than 5 hours before) before wrestling, or in between, watching kids you dont know. I understand what you're saying but I've also been at tournaments where the brackets of only some of the weight classes were strong and the rest of the brackets (usually round robins) pretty much sucked.

If you prestage each weight class and then have them come out that way, you don't have much down time. The only time you have downtime at that point is in the later rounds while updating the brackets. The point is making everyone better and this is a way to raise the talent pool across the board. Having weight classes where brackets are weak is the same as having weight classes in that are weak in duals. You just don't have to sit through it all at obce (the only downfall). But allowing those weak weight classes the chance to wrestle every weekend, is where they get better. Raising the level of competition for everyone.

Clubs do have a roll in MS wrestling, they provide an overlap in areas where there are no teams, My OPINION is that say if a kid goes to school B and they have a team then he should wrestle for that team . If he want more elite training, join a club after the scholastic season. We call this Middle School wrestling, if we just let everything just go to club then lets call it Kentucky USA Wrestling and let the recruiting begin, Im will say this, its not an accident that the River City Wrestling club wears green and gold singlets

Yes, I'm confident CC pulls from a much larger pool than UC.

Don't need open tournaments. At CC we get essentially all our kids (35+) on the mat almost every weekend. We send out an A and B team; sometimes to the same event, sometimes in opposite directions. Not always easy to pull off and gets expensive, but those kids work too hard to not get mat time.

Yes, I'm confident CC pulls from a much larger pool than UC.

Don't need open tournaments. At CC we get essentially all our kids (35+) on the mat almost every weekend. We send out an A and B team; sometimes to the same event, sometimes in opposite directions. Not always easy to pull off and gets expensive, but those kids work too hard to not get mat time.

Ranger, I agree your kids get to wrestle. But your club is the minority and not the norm. The experience your kids get from wrestling every weekend is why your team is towards the top. Since not every other club does that, opens allow opportunities that most teams (not yours but most others) don't get.

Large opens would not necessarily do much for growth as I bet there would be a lot of poorly run events where parents and kids get frustrated.

Clubs do have a roll in MS wrestling, they provide an overlap in areas where there are no teams, My OPINION is that say if a kid goes to school B and they have a team then he should wrestle for that team . If he want more elite training, join a club after the scholastic season. We call this Middle School wrestling, if we just let everything just go to club then lets call it Kentucky USA Wrestling and let the recruiting begin, Im will say this, its not an accident that the River City Wrestling club wears green and gold singlets

Uh, it is USA wrestling and as far as I know there is no middle school equivalent to KHSAA.

Large opens would not necessarily do much for growth as I bet there would be a lot of poorly run events where parents and kids get frustrated.

AMEN to that one Ranger. By the way congrats on a great season. What do you all have planned for the off season?

Clubs do have a roll in MS wrestling, they provide an overlap in areas where there are no teams, My OPINION is that say if a kid goes to school B and they have a team then he should wrestle for that team . If he want more elite training, join a club after the scholastic season. We call this Middle School wrestling, if we just let everything just go to club then lets call it Kentucky USA Wrestling and let the recruiting begin, Im will say this, its not an accident that the River City Wrestling club wears green and gold singlets

What is meant by the River City comment?

If I may, I'm quite sure that bigedcoach meant simply what he said. River City is a club that feeds St. X. Recruiting starts early, more power to u if u can get away with it. "U, is meant in the generic term." This will probably get criticized, and that's ok. Not everyone has the luxury of pretty much hand picking a team. Trust me, if I could do it I would too.

Focused on Team KY and Ohio TOC right now. Shoot me an email at some point if you are looking for anything in particular.

Focused on Team KY and Ohio TOC right now. Shoot me an email at some point if you are looking for anything in particular.

Just wanted to say I hope all the middle school champions, 2nd and/or 3rd place finisher take the opportunity to enjoy the experience of team KY and the great competetion at both events.....

I feel that Club programs and School teams have their place. My program is a CLUB and by having it this way saves us a great deal of money regarding transportation cost (buses). If we were a school team we would be required to take buses to tournaments/matches in which the funds would have to come out of our budget. Also, with a club team, we don't have to get approval from the school when we want to purchase something for our kids such as singlets, clocks, scales, trophies etc... And when it comes to fund raisers we can do whatever. With a school team we would have to get the "OK" from the admin to do any of this stuff.

Now about kids jump from school teams to club teams. This doesn't happen as often as some may think. I had 27 kids on my roster and 3 of these kids will end up wrestling for a different HS then ours. However, I do have a kid on my team that wrestled for another team the previous season. The parents of this child pretty much said that he felt that our program had better drill partners, more technical coaches and a stronger schedule. He want to give his son the best opportunity to get better before he entered HS next season. The father of this kid also stated that his child was even thinking about quitting prior to joining my club. Here is my take on this, and I agree with Ranger. Kids will go where they feel is the best situation for them. I'm one that will not recruit a kid from another team or club, but if a child wants to wrestle for me vs him thinking about quitting, I will take him. This only helps wrestling in the long run. Keeps kids on the mat and hopefully they will go on to wrestle in HS. I do not have a problem coaching a kid that will never wrestle for our HS. It's about helping and teaching kids. Just my opinion!!!

I agree with bearcats coach. I will coach any kid that is willing to put in the time to get better. I could care less what high school a kid plans on attending. I also have a son that is a middle wrestler. Being a dad and a coach I am willing to put my son in the best situation for him. I think going to a team that has quality coaches and drill partners is a must. Having kids in the room that can push each other is the key to having success in this sport. As far as recruiting I think kids and parents want to be in a program that they feel will be best for them. Rather they like the coaches, the kids on the team, or just the school colors. The point is that there are a lot of quality programs to choose from. We as coaches should be doing this for the kids and not our egos.

If I may, I'm quite sure that bigedcoach meant simply what he said. River City is a club that feeds St. X. Recruiting starts early, more power to u if u can get away with it. "U, is meant in the generic term." This will probably get criticized, and that's ok. Not everyone has the luxury of pretty much hand picking a team. Trust me, if I could do it I would too.

I can guarantee you that the coaches at River City or St.X are not recruiting or handpicking as you like to call it. Most kids or parents who can afford to go to schools like X or Trinity already have it set in their minds years ahead of sports becoming a factor. I have seen kids who went on to numerous different high schools after being at River City. Believe me that there is not a single coach asking existing wrestlers to come to the program, it is more of people seeing what the program has to offer, what they have accomplished, what they will continue to strive in, and the goals and expectations that are set at that program. Parents and kids come to River City looking to be a part of a great program, River City does not go around looking for wrestlers. "Build it and they will come". simple as that. Why wouldnt you put your kids in a position to better themselves, River City is presently the premier program in the Louisville area, and look at the great education and opportunities offered at X 99% go on to college, some of the highest test scores, over 600 students on honor roll last semester one of the elite schools in the entire state. Who wouldnt want that?

I've been with River City for 5 years and I can vouch that the only wrestlers they get are the ones that decide to walk thru their doors to wrestle. Absolutely no recruiting what-so-ever! Tyler Frankrone, a walk in! Their success is strictly from the hard work of their Coaches and the wrestlers that been with their program! Theirs always a negative mind running around that can't give credit where credit is due.

I believe the original question was "what was meant by the River City comment?" The general impression one would get is when you are associated (a feeder) with a private school (St. X) your have the advantage of being able to recruit. Nobody questioned ethics or integrity. No need to investigate something that private schools are allowed to do. You guys are the ones who immediately got defensive. I even admitted if I had that kind of possibility, I would definately.explore it. You want credit, here is some credit. River City is a good program. See, I think you guys are swell. Why do people feel like if your not kissing their rear, your disrespecting them. Quit being so #$*&?@ sensitive.

D.W. what program are you with?

I believe the original question was "what was meant by the River City comment?" The general impression one would get is when you are associated (a feeder) with a private school (St. X) your have the advantage of being able to recruit. Nobody questioned ethics or integrity. No need to investigate something that private schools are allowed to do. You guys are the ones who immediately got defensive. I even admitted if I had that kind of possibility, I would definately.explore it. You want credit, here is some credit. River City is a good program. See, I think you guys are swell. Why do people feel like if your not kissing their rear, your disrespecting them. Quit being so #$*&?@ sensitive.

Where do you get your info from? In no way are private schools allowed to recruit, same way the public schools are not allowed to. There is no such thing as an athletic scholarship nor is any one allowed to pay someones tuition if they are not directly related to that student.

This is hilarious. Tyler Frankrone has been getting recruited by public high schools for wrestling and football in the area for the last 2 years. Not one private school has approached me about Tyler!

This is hilarious. Tyler Frankrone has been getting recruited by public high schools for wrestling and football in the area for the last 2 years. Not one private school has approached me about Tyler!

I have seen this at the middle school level in NKY as well. Middle school wrestling being approached by high school wrestling programs asking if they would open enroll to their school so they can wrestle for them.

I believe the transition from MS to HS is the place to move your kid where it best fits them.

In no way did I insinuate that private schools pay athletes. I do however know that recruiting is done in the private school sector. When someone pays tuition to a school, for the most part, the KHSAA can't touch them. Once again, if this was offered to me, I would use it to my advantage. Tyler is a great kid, I have no beef with him or the guys at River City or St. X. As a matter of fact, my old high school Coach was the same Coach that won several team State Championships at St. X in the 90's. Coach Q has definately done a great job. If River City or St. X has NEVER recruited an athlete, then my apologies.

I would put my son's reputation as wrestler on the line to guarantee not one kid on River City's team was sought after or recruited!

But would u do the same for St. X?

Tyler is in middle school. That's a pretty ignorant question. Let me say this again since your Alzheimer's is kicking in. ” Not one private school has approached me about Tyler”! Including St. X! As a matter of fact, St. X's football program doesn't even know Tyler exists. And he's been one of the top middle school football players in Jefferson Co for the 3 last years.

Tyler is in middle school. That's a pretty ignorant question. Let me say this again since your Alzheimer's is kicking in. ” Not one private school has approached me about Tyler”! Including St. X! As a matter of fact, St. X's football program doesn't even know Tyler exists. And he's been one of the top middle school football players in Jefferson Co for the 3 last years.

Ignorant question huh? Obviously you are really hung up on the whole Tyler issue. I didn't bring Tyler in this conversation, you did. I didn't say one time that Tyler had been recruited, you did. St. X recruits....period! Trinity recruits.....period! Lexington Catholic recruits.....period! Get it? I may have Alzheimers, but at least I'm not blind as a bat and can't understand English. Understand the words coming out of my mouth, recruiting happens! A lot! All the time! This was never a thread about you and your kid, like I said before belltones, Tyler is a great kid. I wish him the best. Bottom line is recruiting is a part of every sport.....period!!! Turn a deaf ear, close your eyes, and do whatever it takes to make you sleep at night.

If you can't handle my answers don't ask the questions. You said ” but can I say the same about St. X”!

Your original post was specifically mentioning River City & St. X like you know what goes on there. Then you ask questions about River City and St. X , but don't like the answers cause I refer to Tyler, who wrestles for River City & is my Son! Who's experiences should I talk about? Someone in E-Town, N. KY, Paducah? And now you drag Lexington Catholic in this. Smdh

Sorry for River City guys being so defensive about the recruiting comment, it has been a sensitive topic since districts. Reason being is that a particular coaching staff was heard making the following statements:

- All River City does is recruit.

- They don't develop any wrestlers, they just wait until someone else develops them then they take them.

And the capper

- Watch, I bet if so and so wins, River City will be coming after him next.

Got to me as a River City guy because I know that it isn't true, as well as it it a slap at the abiltty of our coaches. Then I began looking at our lineup logically (I know that is foreign to some on this board) and came up with THE FACTS. So here you go:

70 - Pledger - Started @ River City- 4th in State

75 - Fitzhugh - Started @ River City- 5th in State

80- Kraesig - Started @ River City - 2nd in State

86 - Cook - Started @ River City - 3rd in State

92 - Binder - Started @ River City for 5 years, left and came back - State Champion

98 - Miles - Started @ River City - 3rd in State

140 - Frankrone - Started @ River City - 2nd in State (Hurts to type that 2nd in state line.)

168 - Calhoun - Started @ River City - 6th in State

- Want more .......?

- Out of 25 District Placers, only 4 wrestled anywhere else other than River City. One of those was Binder, who as was mentioned before, wrestled 5 years for River City, left for 4, then came back.

- Also, if River City recruited, why would they have any weight classes not represented in duals? Seems like if you were a top program which there is no question that River City is, you would have no issues fielding a full lineup of quality wrestlers. That is not the case in some of the heavier weights. All of the kids above Calhoun were first year 7th graders who came to River City to "try out wrestling" or just "workout to get better for football".

I was here in the begining, when we were not winning as much. I watched the program develop through very, very hard work, sweat and dedication to the sport, both in season and off. If you want proof, come to one of our practices and see. Whoops, hope that didn't come off like a recruiting offer.

But would u do the same for St. X?

I would, most kids that go to places like X or Trinity have already been enrolled in private school previously and already had the intention of attending those schools. Over the years being involved with youth sports ands coming from a football program that has won championships several years running, I have never seen a coach or administrator from any private school ever approach any public school kids about coming to any of their programs, but I have seen coaches, teachers, athletic directors and even principals from public schools approach kids, even my own son as to where they were planning on attending high school and the great things their school had to offer.

I don't think that there is any recruiting, but after seeing that college like campus at St. X (beautiful complex), I would definitely be all ears if someone called for my kids.

It really does not matter private or public, city or county....parents at the end of the day are going to make the decision that is in the best interest of their child for educational, athletic, and personal needs. If they don't, then shame on them.

If a private school did give a reduced tuition why would you not jump on it if it was the most beneficial for your child. Think about your job right now....if your biggest competitor called right now and said I will pay you double, do you really have that much loyalty to your current employer when it would be more beneficial to your family and their future.

I don't see anybody arguing over the gifted kid who gets reduced tuition at the private school so why do we care about the athlete with good grades that gets reduced tuition.