These teams used to be competitive in the top 10, and seem to be in a slump. Is there anyone else? The lack of middle school wrestling and probably loss of support in the community/school has really shown how wrestling in this state has changed very quickly.

51 South Oldham 12

55 Sheldon Clark 8.0

74 Seneca 2.0

Woodford (no state champions in three years)

South and Woodford have MS programs

cant explain the Woodford situation, but coaching changes at the other schools might be a subject, no Fiser/Kemper, Matney or Anderson

It's been three years since a Woodford kid won State? Wow.

I don't think its all a lack in there programs, but a combination of that and the rest or the state closing the gap

There has been a lot of discussion of what exactly is going on at Woodford. How many years straight was it they had a wrestler in the state finals? One person said that their middle school program wasn't as competative as it needed to be which allowed everyone else in the state to catch up.

Here is my answer to Woodfords slump. No Rusty Parks. Since he retired Woodford has been on a decline. Maybe he was the glue that kept it all together.

I agree, coach parks was great at getting the numbers and motivating them. I think also there is a scare factor that's just not there now. Kids now live in the moment, they are not scared of what you use to be. Didn't see coach Carr Sr all day on the floor Fri. Wonder if he is ready to step away? Also at one point I watched a woodford match that the whole first period the kid had no coach in the corner, that just can't happen. You never seen that with big Joe and coach parks

Seneca is definitely due to Anderson leaving and the coaches that took over just don't have what the "Old School" coach did. I think Woodford is more due to the fact that other schools in the area and state started getting better and catching up in combination with Coach Parks leaving.

Woodford has great coaches. Carr Jr. Is the best technician in the state..hands down. Little Rusty is a good technician too. Nothing to do with he coaches, I've heard through a good source that there is no parental support and the numbers are way down. I'm sure woodford will be back on top very shortly..I know I would have loved to wrestle for Jo Jr. And little parks. Very good guys and they know their stuff..they are yelling moves out constantly. I just think woodford needs more numbers and they'll be fine.

Woodford has great coaches. Carr Jr. Is the best technician in the state..hands down. Little Rusty is a good technician too. Nothing to do with he coaches, I've heard through a good source that there is no parental support and the numbers are way down. I'm sure woodford will be back on top very shortly..I know I would have loved to wrestle for Jo Jr. And little parks. Very good guys and they know their stuff..they are yelling moves out constantly. I just think woodford needs more numbers and they'll be fine.

This can be said for most teams in the state. I can remember sitting in the stands at state near Woodford. They would have a whole section just for them and they were usually the loudest. It seems they are lucky to get a fraction of those people attending now. Do their fans only follow them during championship years?

I agree 100% superduck. The Joe Carr duo are excellant technicians. But as I said Rusty was the glue that made it all work. He got parental support, got the kids out, and kept the student support flowing.

Parks and Carr complemented each other. They kept each other in line and pushed each other.

I agree, technique only gets u so far. You gotta have all the other pieces too.

Its not always the coaches fault the team is on a decline, here in the city of Louisville we have so many other things the kids can get into and it takes away from not just wrestling but all sports. The kids ar emostly the reason these teams are declining. If you dont have the numbers, what can you do? So dont blame the coaches, its not fair to the current coaches at these schools if they arent getting the numbers they've had in the years past!!!!!

I love ya Ceron and I usually agree with you, but not on this one. We can sit around and make excuses about the kids all we want. But that is not making our teams any better. At the schools where the coaches stick around and are truly dedicated to improving their program, you see consistent, long-term improvement, regardless of the kids (Moore, Southern, Central, I'm sure I am leaving some out like Doss and Western with Coomes even though is not technically the HC). All programs have down years, but if a team is consistently declining, I would look deeper than just the kids. By the way, great job Ceron. What you do for wrestling in our community is a great thing. If we had more guys like you we would all be on the rise!

So what are some ideas on getting more kids involved. Coach Anderson from Seneca was a great example of getting kids to come out every year and developing competitive wrestlers in just the 4 years of high school. He ran open mats during the spring that were open to all, seems like every kid in town had a relationship with him just from open mats. He would help everyone and not just his own kids

I think it definitely helps if the Coach is in the school system, what are some other ideas for getting more kids involved in the sport?

Its not always the coaches fault the team is on a decline, here in the city of Louisville we have so many other things the kids can get into and it takes away from not just wrestling but all sports. The kids ar emostly the reason these teams are declining. If you dont have the numbers, what can you do? So dont blame the coaches, its not fair to the current coaches at these schools if they arent getting the numbers they've had in the years past!!!!!

i think that you woud agree that a certain louisville program has been on the decline since a certain coach arived. I think that if you have a coach making poor/unethical desisions himself, what do you expect from the kids he is coaching.

I recently attended the Bronze USA webinar. There were coaches from all over the country on there and we discussed this very thing. Believe it or not, almost every state is having similar problems getting kids out. Actually, I should clarify. They are having trouble KEEPING kids out. We were able to get 1000 at the youth tourney, but the stats say that most of them will not wrestle in high school. I wish I knew a magic answer to fix it, but I don't. We need to not only focus on more youth involvement, we need to work on keeping the young ones interested.

This is where it gets complicated.

We have to keep it fun for the kids, but at some point this obviously does change and becomes more competitive. The reason it is a little complicated is the fact that you mentioned Coach Anderson. I first must say I am biased. I wrestled for him. He is also the one person I look up to more than anyone. That being said, nobody is perfect. He did a great job of turning balls of goo like me into men. He did amazing things in a short amount of time. However, his methods weren't necessarily the best for the sport. He worked us like no one who wasn't there could believe. It was relentless. I know I am stronger today because of it, but being in it was terrifying at times. The point I am making is, coach put his kids through the same process many other coaches do that get kids at a young age, he just sped it up. Most of us were extremely burnt out by the end. While I was there we had two undefeated state champs, neither ever thought about wrestling in college. We were all done by then. So the moral of the story is, if he were a middle school coach he would have ran a lot of us off before high school.

We have to change the way we coach, watch and participate in this sport., It needs to be more positive, more of a discovery process of ones self. Sometimes we need to just let them go. I know I have over coached my kids in the past, especially from the corner. Let's worry about having fun and learning and trying out new things. Wrestling has got to become more of an art than a science, that is not just here in KY but everywhere.

I see what everyone is saying, but now after looking at the big picture, it's a mixture of a lot things. While at PRP, we didn't have the parental support that I would have liked to have, but the parents that did come out did a great job when we asked them too. It does make a difference when you have that kind of support cause it takes some pressure off the coaches.

I'm a firm believer in the fact that you need 4 key ingredients to keep a program running strong over a long period of time. Some, if not all programs can have spurts of good wrestling (usually comes with a group of 4 or 5 kids) but to have a program not just a team, I think these are the 4 key ingredients.

1) Stable coaching staff: If your coaching staff turns over year after year, how can you expect the kids to stay? Not to mention it allows coaches to build relationships with the kids which is important.

2) A coach in the building, not just the school system: It helps in all aspects of the program and mainly recruiting kids to come out. I think kids are less likely to quit as well. Kids are still kids and if they're more likely to see a coach roaming the halls or standing in the cafeteria on lunch duty, they don't want to face them. If your coaches aren't in the building, I think it's easier for them to quit since they don't have to see you everyday or they can duck out of school before a coach arrives for practice.

3) Youth program: I know we have turnover with wrestlers year after year. Basically kids try the sport and after a year or two, they decide if it's for them or not. If you have a youth program, by the time kids reach the high school level, they have pretty much already made up their mind to stick with the sport or drop it. Plus, you have experienced wrestlers with at least a couple of years under their belt in most cases. You're not dealing as much with pouring a lot of effort and time into a kid only to have them quit a year or two later and have to start back over again with another kid at the high school level. Nothing is more frustrating as a coach than to have a kid who has enormous potential and picks up the sport very quickly, only to have them quit a year or two later so they can take up the guitar or join the Science club!!! (Obviously that last statement is from personal experience, lol)

4) Support: This is in the form of both parental and administrative. A coach can't keep a program running solely by his or herself. Parental support helps because not only does it make it more special for the kids but it also allows the coach to focus their attention on the mat, not worry about fundraising, etc. Administrative support is important. The more people you have behind the team, the more likely to get kids to stay. They feel like they are a part of something and when that happens, it makes the hard practices and all day Saturdays seem like less of a sacrifice. When you can get the principal, AD or whoever to show up at meets it's a big deal. It also helps when administration does little things like make announcements in the mornings about the previous weekends tournaments and results. It makes the kids feel important and less like an after thought.

Of course this is just my opinion, but most if not all of the programs I've seen that have success tend to be very strong in these 4 areas.

making everyone feel good is ruining the sport. the objective of high school athletics is to have fun with sportsmanship but making it okay and pampering kids when they lose and saying it is ok is ridiculous. losing sucks, not making the team sucks and when you find your place (i.e. not making the team or not winning) the kids shouldn't be told it is alright. people need goals in life and when you take away accomplishments such as:making the team or winning. then all the sport is about is participation (which is how a lot of programs view wrestling now), this however ruins the sport (any sport).

being a feel good coach only reinforces bad behavior (losing)

I think that it is important to differentiate between being a "feel good coach" and being a coach who facilitates the growth of his kids and the sport as a whole. I am not saying losing is okay, especially in high school and especially when the kids works hard and sets a goal to win. I am not saying losing is okay at all. I am simply saying that maybe the some of the things we are doing to coach these kids is not helping the sport. Like I said, more of an art, less of a science. In the long run the kid will win more and become more successful. Yes, push them to work hard, push them to be the best, but let's not push them out of the sport.

I think that it is important to differentiate between being a "feel good coach" and being a coach who facilitates the growth of his kids and the sport as a whole. I am not saying losing is okay, especially in high school and especially when the kids works hard and sets a goal to win. I am not saying losing is okay at all. I am simply saying that maybe the some of the things we are doing to coach these kids is not helping the sport. Like I said, more of an art, less of a science. In the long run the kid will win more and become more successful. Yes, push them to work hard, push them to be the best, but let's not push them out of the sport.

i like that. and i need an ambien resistant keyboard.