Just sounded good since another state started a similar thread trying to pat its own back . One poster from Moe really rubbed me the wrong way by saying no kid in ky was nationally ranked , I guess he meant by himself oddly enough his own kid was in a class at Swowca that was won by a kid who was nationally ranked this year Kevin Cooper .

As for comparing some others who came from oh saying they have wrestled no one well at least 5 of their state champs and dozens of their top placers have lost to them or places behind them in HS tournys including their OW who bumped last yr to avoid the match at Swowca just like theY year before in freestyle Greco petitioning on rather than wrestling to avoid a loss .

I thought Fahy Stephen Cooper Carr and Austin were all ranked and I don't see how Brock or Yenter wouldn't be and I thought Jude was ranked also . Guess you have to be ranked by Ohio guys in order to count , USA wrestling is more reputable than most I would go by them first before some Northern Ohio ran propaganda page . Regardless of how exotically egocentricly weird the ranker is .

If they want to pick on some kids who have been off the Matt for months and have had some problems then that shows how scared they are an how mad they are about being shown up for years , how MADD will they be when Austin humiliates everyone in their state in a year or so .

Funny he's actually ticked off some clown saying he wouldn't make it out of districts in oh he would hav been 95 or 82 and no one in oh scored on him last yr.and only 1 kid made it past the second per .

Yenter beat Byrd Cooper beat a bunch of good kids as did Faust and OH is much deeper but since they are concerned with picking on people to feel good about themselves i will pick on them Their are a whole lot of state champs an placers in oh that have lost to a kid they are bent on downing much more than they will ever have in the win column , and they are about to get the beating of their lives at Swowca next yr of thy all do not run their prima donnas like in the past , I don't have to dance around words .no one likes me anyway lol

Kentuckys wrestling is catching up with Ohio very fast. I've watched some high school (including the whole state tournament) but mostly I deal with middle school and youth. My son is a 8 yr old 2nd grader and the only time he has wrestled in the state of Kentucky is middle school(which he finished 4th in his region) and the youth state tournament. He has not lost in the state of Ohio in youth tournaments. We have wrestled from Cleveland to Bidwell to New Lexington so we have wrestled all around the state. He has wrestled all the top kids in his weight class (65lbs) from Ohio. He has had one close match in Ohio and that was to a kid named Cody Mathews. His coach told me he hadn't lost this year. Blue won 8-4 in a match that was actually closer than the scores seems. But my point is this. People always say Ky kids can't compete with OH kids. I say bull crap. We here at Johnson Central have 2 kids that travel 3, 4, and 5 hours to states such as PA, WV, OH, TN, VA and so on every weekend to compete with the best youth kids out there. Guess what they do compete and compete quite well. So I think Ky is catching up to the other states around us very quickly and they know it. Blues youth record is 42-3 with is only loses coming to a PA state champ(3-6), a OK state champ(3-5), a WV state champ(12-9) crazy match. So KY kids can and will compete with the best kids in the country IMO.

I agree ,congrats to your kid an team they sound like studs and you seem to know what needs to be done to make help make your kid a champion , train and wrestle the best comp you can and if you can't train more do what it takes

Thanks. Yeah it's a lot of time, money, and travel but in the end I believe it will all be worth it. To be the best you have to wrestle the best and thats what we try to do. Are there going to be any camps up your way this summer? Are your boys going to be helping at any of the summer camps? Your kids are studs and I love watching them wrestling. JJ Jude and Sam Preston work with my boys a lot and it's making them better and coach Matneys not a bad coach to learn from he does great with them.

Jude is jacked up and the Preston kid was impressive thats a good mix , not sure it's possible they help some they work with the kids I train in the off season ,

I agree. Kentucky wrestling is coming fast. We are in southern ky, so we go south and wrestle in a lot of 16-32 man brackets to get mat time. My 7 year old is 47-9 this season and 4 loses are wreslting an age group up and a weight class. He was state champ here in his second full year. He won the aau youth regional in tennessee last weekend and they will not allow hin to wrestle in their state tournament this saturday because he wrestled in kentucky's. He also was asked to tryout for their elementary dual team on sunday, but some coaches have complained and now he isnt going to be able to. Pretty upset about this because they have taken my money since december 3 and first said he was eligible. We are hoping to go train with the Meyers after school is out and are goning to the youth nationals later this month and hoping to wrestle some of the coaches that are doing the complaing. We also have a 50, 90, and 95 that can wrestle with anyone. Travis sullivan and his dad have helped greatly with our young kids. My son hits everthing from a peterson to a syracuse in matches. Cant wait to see some of these OH wrestlers on the mat. After all, Ky wrestling is 2nd rate and we have no chance of beating these guys.

I read the board that contained the OH vs KY thread. You should have posted there. Certainly KY is coming along, but to think KY (outside of a few select wrestlers) can compete with OH is borderline delusional. It was suggested on the other board to refer to Baum's Page. Look at how the Kentucky teams do in these tournaments. Outside of Coaches Classic and maybe GMV tourney, the other events are quite weak by OH standards. The OH teams placing ahead of KY teams are non factors at the state level. Some of those OH teams that placed ahead of KY teams scored no points and/or sent no wrestlers to the state tournament. KY teams are losing to weak OH teams. I do not mean to belittle KY wrestling, I am just stating fact. If memory serves, KY teams did not cross the river until recently. Keep it up, take your lumps and grow! Look to attend bigger and better events. Brecksville Holiday and Medina come to mind as strong OH events. Do well at these and then we will talk. Moeller is closer to home. They host a great duals tourney. St X and Trinity have gone.

Yes as a whole Ky is still weaker than OH. But my point is if Ky took a (because I not have a better word) All-star team up to Oh with Ky cream of the crop wrestlers Ky would hang with them. I would love to put a full team together and do just this. I'm taking Blue to the Vipet Pit, Tournamentof Champions, and the cliff keen tourney in Oklahoma coming up. There we will see how he is progressing. But last year Blue wrestled the kid( Hartley kid) that placed 2nd in his age and weight division at the Tournament of Champions. He pinned him in the 2nd period at Bidwell Oh. So yes OH is still ahead of Ky as a whole but not at the top levels of the sport IMO.

As has been stated the depth is much greater but there have been Ky kids doing well in OH , of course my personal beef was with a few blasting my kids I know why they comment they know kids have been off the Matt and wish to hit someone when they are down because that's the only way they can beat certain kids who have shown them up, I doubt any Norther Oh people care about Ky it's obviously the SW guys who are ticked at having been outdone by Northern Oh and some kids who came to ky .

To say a kid wouldn't make it out of districts is a mistake Austin has never not made it out of districts since 1 st grade same for Steph an both are the only two to win jr high dist every yr ,

Of course they would not be the weight they were in ky that was not thee choice as falsely reported they were not allowed to drop because they did not make weight or get the chance to rather although Steph did but it was before he was allowed to , they should do away with how they do weight very in ky it's unfair and hold kid back making matchup a unfair at times .

Can't post on yappi and didn't do anything to get banned except reply to a dirty pm by a hater .

Noticed They are still on aCollica kick Stephen beat him at every level grade school jr high and HS and he beat and places higher than Newhouse an Bright . As for the rankings comments ky kids are ranked and Stephen was voted # 1 125 lb wrestler in OH last yr and just because someone crosses the river doesn't mean they forget how to wrestle , and josh Lowe smoothing with the haters and dropping kids from his rankings is a joke ,he simply has a chance to blast two kids from Cincy who showed him and his buddies up and gave the SW some hope you know it and everyone in oh Does as well we did it first and better and set the bar .

Of course the current moe clique has a chip on its shoulder having been whipping dogs for the boys for yrs their fab fresh haven't lives up to their expectation or Stephen and Austin will end up where none of them could a 4 timer who dominate Oh Ed's is down next yr bet they still beat moe it's in their psyche ,

Don't know what they mean about puberty and me hiding kids steph wrestled HS for two yrs in oh 93 and 4 I think h wrestled all grades all kids and Austim wrestled open tournys in summer in HS div for yrs he beat two moe kids as an 7th grader over summer one yr

Regardless I'm beating a dead horse myself they seem bent on attacking us when I compliment all who deserve it and yeah I think it's funny their ow ran from Steph last yt at Swowca and still lost to a no ranked kid , that's one of Moes greatest guess , now I'm thinking Austin ends up better than any kid in Cincy ever he knocks out 4 even in ky but at a big weight and he will beat everyone in oh by his jr yr easily just as he did in jr high and jr high in oh is one div,

Ignorant for them to attack him as for his development he has gotten much stronger since the end of the season he would be a contender at 195 in oh next yr without ?

Fahy ,Cooper ,Brock , Jayce , Yenter , Faust , Hamilton , and some others would all do well in Oh Jude with a few weeks of top caliber partners would do well I'm sure that's what athletes do in those situations .

Probably quite a few I missed a for all the ky teams didn't do well against oh teams that did poorly at state talk CC would have beaten a lot of teams at state that they might not at smaller tournys it's the nature of the sport top guns score big at big tournys ,

There are a few teams in Nky that can compete and a few outside of Nky that could compete in Oh not knocking off Ed's or graham but hanging with the average to slightly better teams and gaining i do think it's very possible for a few ky kids to do better than their Oh counterparts and I am sure of one who will and know one who did ,

My point is they seem to try to pay themselves on the back by knocking people who are improving ,take it as the compliment it really is they wouldn't be talking if they were not concerned after being 2 nd rate to Northern OH for so long some Cincy people need an ego boost let them feel confident it makes it that much easier to catch up to them I think some of the wins this yr ky kids had over some of the better Cincy kids woke them up a bit,

I read the board that contained the OH vs KY thread. You should have posted there. Certainly KY is coming along, but to think KY (outside of a few select wrestlers) can compete with OH is borderline delusional. It was suggested on the other board to refer to Baum's Page. Look at how the Kentucky teams do in these tournaments. Outside of Coaches Classic and maybe GMV tourney, the other events are quite weak by OH standards. The OH teams placing ahead of KY teams are non factors at the state level. Some of those OH teams that placed ahead of KY teams scored no points and/or sent no wrestlers to the state tournament. KY teams are losing to weak OH teams. I do not mean to belittle KY wrestling, I am just stating fact. If memory serves, KY teams did not cross the river until recently. Keep it up, take your lumps and grow! Look to attend bigger and better events. Brecksville Holiday and Medina come to mind as strong OH events. Do well at these and then we will talk. Moeller is closer to home. They host a great duals tourney. St X and Trinity have gone.

You are only partially correct. A team with 14 upper mediocre wrestlers can place higher at a weaker tournament than a team that scores a large number of points at the state tournament. You know as well as I do its not necessarily a team effort at state tournament. Its the number of wrestlers you qualify out of district tournament that are able to win matches at state tournament that decides how you do with state placement.

Mpire is correct big guns score big at big tourneys. Sorry Mpire I was typing when you posted.

Yes and I was misstyping lol .

You are only partially correct. A team with 14 upper mediocre wrestlers can place higher at a weaker tournament than a team that scores a large number of points at the state tournament. You know as well as I do its not necessarily a team effort at state tournament. Its the number of wrestlers you qualify out of district tournament that are able to win matches at state tournament that decides how you do with state placement.

Mpire is correct big guns score big at big tourneys. Sorry Mpire I was typing when you posted.

True enough, a few big guns can skew the team results just as having a team of solid wrestlers can win a dual but lay an egg at the state tournament. At state duals Massillon Perry lost a close one to Moeller, however they far outpaced Moeller at state with multiple champs. As for individual events, I looked up the info on Baum's and all I gotta say is a$$ whippin by the OH teams in mediocre tourneys. Moeller duals were the only team event I knew of and it was real ugly for Trinity and St X. Those team lost matches by 50, 60 points. This happened two years in a row. Someone in another discussion noted that those teams were w/out some guys due to football. Must've been the entire team. Hey, I took note of the KY kids that did well in OH. Cooper would be near the top. Yenter would place as high as 2nd. Fahy would hold his own, top six. The Myers kids, in shape would be tough. Stephen wins at 38, 1st or 2nd at 45, 2nd at 52. Austin top four at 95 and 220, quite a feat for a freshman! I am only looking at DI as that is where my focus usually is. Looking at all divisions: KY all stars vs OH DI, looks to be 12-2 OH. DII somewhere between 10-4 and 12-2. DIII looks to be much better, possibly a win for KY 8-6 in matches won. OH all stars vs KY all stars is no closer than 12-2, possible shut out. OH all stars is comprised of a line up fully stocked with nationally ranked wrestlers. Nine are ranked top 5, 13 are top 10. One resides outside the top ten, Suvak from St Eds. Some weights have multiple representation. So, at 120 Yenter gets #1 DiCamillo. Fahy will test his luck against top 3 Nate Skonieczny. 45 finds top ten Collica while 52 has #1 Bo Jordan. Cooper and Myers can flip weights where Myers may beat Collica (did it before) and KY earns the split. The other KY hopeful would be Austin Myers. Does he go 82 and take on one of three top tens in Abounader, Evans, or Gresham? Does he go 95 and face top 20 in Suvak? Bump all the way to 220 and give it a go with top ten Meadows? Austin, surely is not afraid of anybody. He would gladly take the challenge of 82 and face all three in succession if the opportunity presented itself. I am not going to question his bravery. However, a freshman at a big boy class is a tough go. Talent wise he is overmatched by Gresham and Abounader. I don't wanna hear how he tooled anybody at open mats. We all know it is a whole new ballgame when the ref blows the whistle. I believe he has the talent to give Suvak a good match, but he would be giving up too much weight. Same goes for top ten Meadows, though Meadows is too much regardless of weight. So, after further consideration I think a match score of 13-1 with tons of bonus points sounds about right. Stephen Myers over Collica in a great match, possible bonus. The other weights not mentioned? No wrestler outside top five nationally resides here. Final score something like 66-5. Yenter gets majored, Fahy decisioned, S Myers tf Collica, Cooper pinned (sorry this is a no brainer), Austin loses by decision, the others are all bonus.

I'm not sure what you consider recently, but I know that many of the Nky schools have been attending Cincy Tourneys for years. Maybe not the top tourneys such as SWOCA or GMV. CC has been to the Fairfield Tourney since the late 80's early 90's. (At least 20 years), and use to compete in the Moeller duals. Ryle has been to cincy since the school was built in the mid 90's. Conner attended several for years all the way back to the early 80's maybe earlier. Simon has been going to the GMV going back to the mid to late 90's. (They stopped going for a few years and got back in this year).

I'm sure Scott went to some of the cincy tourneys when Dave Madding was their coach in the 80's-90's.

I don't believe that a Ky all star team could be an all division OH all star team. Ky wrestling is still young compared to OH. Ky wrestling 1st was sanctionid in 1966 (first 2 state tourneys were not sanctioned 64,65).

Ohio had their 1st state tourney in 1938 and went to 2 division in 1971 and 3 in 1976. (I did some homework)

That gives Ohio a 26 year head start.

To be honest it is only recently that most of the wrestling teams in KY actually have coaches that know wrestling. By that I mean coaches that have wrestled before. In My day I know at least half the teams in KY (At this time KY only had about 50 teams total) had coaches that never wrestled before, or had any background in wrestling.

Ky is making great strids in improving, maybe not compatable to NOh but we are catching up with SWOh. Maybe in another 10 years we will be on equal terms with SWOH.

Well said GOO as always

I'm not going to disagree with you at all you know your stuff except Stephen has beaten Newhouse Collica both in HS as well as beaten bright Byrd aand ward historically and placed ahead of them in same class in HS but he would need a couple months on the Matt to do that ,

As for Austin he would wrestle them all he actually wants to wrestle Abounader and has trained with Chaz Korb and many other top OH kids I agree with you pretty much it would be intersting seeing what Brock would do and some of the others may surprise some of OHs best fall apart at times I have seen it Bo is incredible as is Heil and without bragging Stephen has the natural ability that has been backed with a lot o good training and wrestling over the years it's a shame kids get older and think they know everything lol I haven't seen many kids with his natural ability if any in all honesty I was impressed with Brock . Bright is an athlete but Squire and Ward were an are boring as heck Bo is a wrestlers wrestler a workhorse .

I wouldn't say Austin would beat the best in Oh in any of those weights but he could beat them and I would say without any question I would not trade places with them if I were Austin none of them have come close to doing what he has done at this stage of the game Gresham Never even won or placed second at jr high state Austin was a runner up 2 timer and ow and had much more impressive wins in grade school Jr high and now as an underclass men and Freshman state champ . Not so sure Yenter gets beat as bad as you think he could hang particularly if he had been in a room with Stephen and Faust all yr .

On a side note I bieve Collica and some of the others actually ran up to avoid the Oh studs at lower weights he had lost to Stephen in grade school and jr High then in HS he did not place in Stephens class at state his freshman yr after loosing to him and someone else probably Gray or Bright . He avoided the minefield of studs at the lower weights and after Stephen went D3 an the two kids who were the top two in his class bumped and the rest went lower he didn't have much to beat in his class not hi fault and when he could have had a match with Ward at Swowca he bumped and when Stephen wrestled in Sandusky duals the beat kids forfeited an bumped not his fault either so people need to get a real grip on who runs as for Moeller duals you are right Stephen was part of that team that spanked trinity and everyone else the talk of the whole tournament the weeks before was the match between Stephen and Fahy Stephen a new AA and Fahy a state champ from Ky who had been in Stephan class at Fargo .

Fahy didn't show and I don't think he played football,

I think CC should be at Moe super duals before Trinity or X it would be nice to see who would beat the running away 145 lb Stephen or how they deal with a 195 lb Austin .

They would wet themselves and their biggest concern would be how they could get me thrown out Or barred

In order to take attention away from the fact they will lose to well ..... Me again lol.

I remember I was talking to Josh Lopez when we were both at Fargo (can't believe that was what 2 years ago?) and when I mentioned I had seen more top level Tennessee guys then Kentucky guys he went on a huge rant about how underrated Kentucky is and how we could destroy Tennessee. Hate to break it to everyone but outside of our top level guys like Kevin Cooper, John Fahy, Garth Yenter, Stephen Myers, Austin Myers, etc. We really can not hang with the Ohio teams. Now I will say that Kentucky is a lot closer to the middle of the pack then people give us credit for, not a lot of our guys really understand what it takes to get national exposure. The more guys we have go D1 the more respect we will gain. I am wrestling in college up in Ohio and guys on my team come from big name schools like St. Ed's and Walsh Jesuit. We have a couple state placers but a lot of state qualifiers on the team (we are only D3) and let me tell you the state qualifiers from Ohio would be state placers at the very least here in Kentucky. Joe Whalen was considered one of the best guys in Kentucky my senior year and I know a state qualifier from Ohio who beat him pretty soundly over the summer. If anybody remembers Fort Campbell's heavyweight from last year who was a couple of stupid mistakes away from being a state placer, I would like to inform you guys he didn't even make it past sectionals in PA. Kentucky is improving and I see great things in our future, and saying the whole state is full of scrubs is ridiculous. But we are still quite a ways behind the likes of Ohio and PA. Right now we should focus on catching up with Tennessee, which we are very close to doing.

How many schools with wrestling in Ohio? Its somewhere near 500-600. How many in Kentucky? Isn't it 92?

That's the difference right there. Let's catch up to Tenn, or Indiana first and worry about the Buckeye state then.

Good point but don't sell anyone short jump in the fire it works .

How many schools with wrestling in Ohio? Its somewhere near 500-600. How many in Kentucky? Isn't it 92?

That's the difference right there. Let's catch up to Tenn, or Indiana first and worry about the Buckeye state then.

I agree this here is a problem. We will never be able to reach that number, there are only 279 schools in KHSAA. (I counted them).

Kentucky's population is about 4,339,000.

Ohio's population is about 11,545,000

These population numbers alone show how difficult it will be to catch up with Ohio. The more kids that participate in a sport the better that sport gets. This does not mean that Ky can't catch up, but it will not be easy. That is the beauty of wrestling, it's an individual sport and any individual can succeed.

Mpire is correct in saying that jumping in the fire can make you better. You need to wrestle people better than yourself before you can get better. Kentucky has doubled the number of schools participating in KY in the last 25 years. If we can add another 50 schools in the next 10 years then that will only help our bid to catch up with Ohio.

First of all I wish our team could attend Moeller duals. Also not to hammer on a particular kid but Joe Whalen got beat pretty badly by one of Kentucky's best at Raider Rumble(sorry Joe).

Also it seams at least from my perspective that a large # of Ohio's best did do their best to avoid Stephen, just saying.

Depth wise we are not even close. But our top kids compete very well in any division in Ohio.

Also if you are going to put together an all class all star team in Ohio I would love to see that, if you could get that done you would be hard pressed to find more than 3 states that could actually go 500 with them.

I agree with Mpire. I can tell you the reason KY is on the rise is the youth programs. Coming from TN the top programs like father Ryan, mccallie, Christian brothers, Soddy Daisy etc. are so dominate because of there youth programs. A lot of focus has been put on those and it is paying off with years of success at the high school level. That is why the listed schools have pulled away from the rest of the pack. It is also why KY is on the rise.

A quote I have tried to instill into my scheduling is: "to beat the best you have to go after the best"

Kentucky has grown tremendously and will continue to get better. I lived in KY, coached middle school and moved the summer after my kids 6th grade year for my job. My son had good success in KY. He placed at MS state his 5th grade year and I think he had as good of chance to win MS state his 6th grade year as until he broke his arm a few weeks before regions. He is now a freshman up here in Northeast Ohio wrestling for a school that is Div 1 and in my opinion the toughest district in the state(had 7 state champs from their district). He did well for his freshman year....he was 15-3 (until he got mono...the kid can't stay healthy). He was not varsity on his team, he was a back up behind another kid who did qualify for the state tournament. There is 5 other kids just in his weight class...most of which have been wrestling since Kindergarten to 2nd grade. It is just a different culture when it comes to wrestling. For example, I was at a Cavaliers game and the guy behind me saw the shirt my kid was wearing from the youth club team. He was a coach of a youth program in Maple Heights (Cleveland) and we started talking wrestling. I told him my oldest started wrestling in the 3rd grade, and his response was "my kid got started late too." I never realized 3rd grade was late. My youngest who is in Kindergarten wrestles for a youth club that is K-6 and has over 80 kids! Their wrestling room, which is at my oldest sons high school is a full gym fully matted wall to wall with wall mats and a separate weight room just for the wrestlers and yes, its a public school. Just about every Saturday during the wrestling season and some weekdays the cover of the sports page has a picture of wrestling...not basketball. My wife asked about filling out NCAA brackets at her work, (where just about all the guys used to wrestle) and several of them have never filled out a NCAA bracket!! Really!?!?! For what its worth, us KY boys could kick some butt in basketball up here.

We used to compete in Cincinnati all the time when we were in KY, and after living in Ohio for nearly 3 years now, I would not use Cincy as the sample for Ohio talent. 12 of the 14 weight classes at Div 1 state were won by Northeast Ohio kids...I believe only 1 Cincy kid took home a state title. The talent is just much deeper up here. So many more kids wrestle and so many more schools have programs and just about all of them have youth programs. I agree with MPire in regards to certain elite wrestlers could compete at the highest level in Ohio....its just filling in the gaps between those top kids and that next tier. I was at the KY state tourney this year and went to my kids district the week after and feel I have a fair comparison to where the talent is at. I am getting long winded...With that said, KY has grown tons ever since I wrestled in the 90's and is ultimately going in the right direction. There are new youth and high school programs every year and more wrestlers and more experienced coaches. If it continues the path, 10-15 years from now Kentucky could be funneling kids into division 1 colleges everywhere. Keep up the great work coaches and wrestlers...keep raising the bar!

I know the jump in the fire comment is hard for some but I remember my kids first yr wrestling Cincy had a great club with coaches like Don Jones Germaine Lindsey Doug Howard , it was southwest all stars I always remember because it seemed weird my kids being on the same team as Orlando Scales at an early age they only let two kids on th team at each weight and our school coach who was a great guy told us our boys were not ready but I said heck with that they tried out and made it and we travelled around a bit and got beat up but it helped afterwards the boys wrestled a lot at Loveland and I always made Mu boys wrestle Kyle knabe he was and is a beast beatings every day but it forces you to improve , it gets costly but the same can be said for tournys not a great feeling watching one of your kids be the youngest In his class at Tulsa and go 1 n 2 , great feeling watching them place and win a couple yrs later . Kind of like the old saying fortune favors the bold get your feet wet learn what it takes and then go to work maybe do things a little different than the rest it may work .

I remember a kid tourny both my boys were way ahead in their matches both got caught and lost rarely did they both leave without a medal even back then but they did my wife was irate she thought a ref pinned Stephen to quick and he probably did but it I his right too , she almost got kicked out the next yr we were headed back she didn't want them to go I said it will be different they both won golds which was a big thing then ,

I always thought it funny when the older parents who had high a school or jr high kids laughed at grade school parents for getting amped I still do when it's your kid at that age it is what matters to you and it's that enthusiasm that leads to champions also think its funny My kids probably surpassed the kids of parents who made fun of us as far as high school and jr high goes , keep that enthusiasm and do not down youth parents or jr high parents who have it , my boys did have a great coach who was a great fan of my boys who crushed them ruthlessly a great youth coach Randolph Pine I remember Stephen winning grades school state and h coming to practice and rather than lump Stephen up he totallly beat the dog crap outta him it was awesome he said a grades school title didn't mean jack untill you get that HS title now whenever Stephen wasn't around Pine always talked him up but to his face he always pushed him and when he got those jr high and HS titles Pine congratulated him but was still fairly hard on him but outside of the room when Stephen isn't around you would think Pine thinks Stephen is Cael or something , not meaning to ramble just saying push them let them know they are doing good but keep them going for it as long as possible it will pay off , I am from ky Corbin originally I know Kentucky loves wrestling it will be a much bigger sport in the state one day perhaps it only needs some flair and color to make people watch no need to compare to oh they only pay themselves on the back for outdoing someone they should as goo said by numbers alone as a kid I also hated the oh is better than us smack that's why I spanked them all had my wife spank them an then had my kids do the same . It's only a river no magical boundary and go east and beat all the kids in PA then talk to me their is always a bigger dog somewhere .

I like the D1 comment except the time line 10 or 15 yrs , give me 20 kids who want it I will give you 20 kids going D1 I had a foster son who never wrestled or stepped on a Matt untill after 8th grade and it was obvious to everyone he would have gotten a scholarship had he stayed with us maybe not D1 but who knows hanging out with studs rubs off on kids living the lifestyle makes it inevitable , that's where you catch up to or pass those ahead of you you don't just wrestle you love the lifestyle 24 7 make it second nature wrestling training healthy eating make it a life choice not just wrestling but what it takes to win At anything .

I love Ky wrestling, but I can speak as far as middle school goes we have a ways to go before we can compete as a team against the top notch Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Penn, California, etc....! With the exception of a few of Kentucky's most elite our state champs as a whole were only as good as Illinois, Ohio 3rd string teams and Oregon, Texas 2nd string teams for example in the National Duals! Don't get it wrong I wanna beat them all, but the fact is we've wrestled the last 3 years at the national duals and when we went up against the 1st string state champ teams like Illinois for example we got thumped. I believe 76-3 last year against Illinois! There were some exceptions in the past that stand out in my mind who did exceptionally well in the tournament like Kevin Cooper, Logan Wedding, Brock Ervin, and few others i'm forgetting to mention. I think some people would be shocked on how some of our state champs were out skilled at this tournament. I can admit I was my 1st two years at the tournament. Like I said, I love Ky wrestling, and there's nothing more that I would to see than to go to national duals and kick everybody's ass! I hope I can come back to this thread March 25th and report some good news!

My sons have both went to Danville and Iowa nat duals different yrs on different trams and under different circumstances , three teams Moller Prodigy and Team Jordan , of course Team Jordan Shows up with the best of the best and wipes it out whole Prodigy wins the silver pool and Moeller does close to that , to beat a team like Jordan's is almost impossible and some of the other states have similar teams I'll brings it's best same for Pa and Mich at times Ky will not have the numbers or as many kids as them maybe ever it would take a doubling or tripling of the sport to challenge those teams , my sons had great tournaments and stories to tell from those events matches with great injuries they overcame against nationally ranked kids some wins and loses both won golds at times and it's fun having Jeff Jordan tell you your kid simply destroyed everyone take em down let em up whole tournament after having him lose the year before having his teeth put through his cheek from a knee wresting through some losses till he could get stitched up , also one wrestling up in Iowa and overcoming odds to snatch a gold, maybe it's not about winning as much as the experience and memories the kids will get at tournys like these look for other Ws at times like that there's more than one way to win ,

In a dual there is no way ky all stars could hang with oh all stars, but I believe there would be several closer matches and even some unexpected upsets for the ky team. 106 ky loses by pin or at very least major. 113 ky loses probably by major but maybe just decision. Kill intel or Blackwell either one could make a go of it and anything can happen in wrestling. 120 I think Garth would not lose by more than a dec and very possibly could get a upset victory.i don't know who Brock would have in his weight but I think he could bang with just about anybody oh has at that particular weight. 132 jayce is very talented but probably not on same level. Only chance he has at winning is other kid gases for some reason because I have yet to see him gas out. He probably gets majored or even teched. 138 Fahy could def slip away with with a dec but prob loses a close dec. I agree cooper or Meyers either one wins at 145 and either one loses by maj or better at 152. 160 ky loses pretty bad prob pin. 170 Jude loses only because he hasn't trained with tough competition. He def has the tools to make a go but would need to be pushed in a hard room for couple weeks to be competitive for 6 min. 182 ray is very tough and keeps match close but loses. 195 we get pinned unless Meyers is here then maybe we keep it close and if lucky a win. Same for 220. Meyers = possible win but close loss or pin if anyone else is here. Heavy has been a weak weight for ky for a very long time. We lose by pin. Do in the end I agree oh goes12-2 with a chance of 10-4

I think the last 3 years we've been to Danville, ILL the Illinois Gold team won it all 3 years but only by 6 points or less to an Ohio team! 2 years ago I believe they pulled a nail biter Ohio Stallions Black 30 Vs. IKWF gold 39 and last year was the same thing IKWF Gold 31 vs Ohio Stallions Black 30! Those two teams were monstrous! I think both of those teams if I remember right beat the 1st string team for Nebraska & Minnesota pretty soundly!

Team Jordan(phenomenal) hasn't been in 3 years, but I know they were in the finals in 2009, I just don't remember who won! The Michigan team was there that year too and they were Beasts!

I def think ky all stars could hang with th tn all stars and possibly win that match-up. I don't think they would beat ga or Fl but tn and ky are about on the same level.

We've done well in certain duals that I was uncertain how we would fare like last year, Ky 59 vs. Nebraska Red 15, although the year before they beat us 73-10! 3 yrs ago we beat Illinois Top Dawgs pretty good, and they returned the favor the next 2 yrs! We've beat the Texas Teams all 3 yrs Ky has been going to the Middle school duals, but I heard that Texas doesn't send their best to that Tournament!

I know team Jordan won it 3 or 4 yrs ago Stephen wrestled for them but I know they don't go every yr they probably pick their tournys between there and the one in Iowa

Mataholic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL! LOL! LOL!

thats not directed to anyone who's commenting in this thread by the way! I'm teasing my buddy!

In a dual there is no way ky all stars could hang with oh all stars, but I believe there would be several closer matches and even some unexpected upsets for the ky team. 106 ky loses by pin or at very least major. 113 ky loses probably by major but maybe just decision. Kill intel or Blackwell either one could make a go of it and anything can happen in wrestling. 120 I think Garth would not lose by more than a dec and very possibly could get a upset victory.i don't know who Brock would have in his weight but I think he could bang with just about anybody oh has at that particular weight. 132 jayce is very talented but probably not on same level. Only chance he has at winning is other kid gases for some reason because I have yet to see him gas out. He probably gets majored or even teched. 138 Fahy could def slip away with with a dec but prob loses a close dec. I agree cooper or Meyers either one wins at 145 and either one loses by maj or better at 152. 160 ky loses pretty bad prob pin. 170 Jude loses only because he hasn't trained with tough competition. He def has the tools to make a go but would need to be pushed in a hard room for couple weeks to be competitive for 6 min. 182 ray is very tough and keeps match close but loses. 195 we get pinned unless Meyers is here then maybe we keep it close and if lucky a win. Same for 220. Meyers = possible win but close loss or pin if anyone else is here. Heavy has been a weak weight for ky for a very long time. We lose by pin. Do in the end I agree oh goes12-2 with a chance of 10-4

Who are your team players on the Ohio team?

Just going off what everybody else has stated.

So you are able to predict wins and losses and how they will happen just based off of what others have stated, not knowing who each kid will wrestle?

Just curious.

Just putting my 2 cents worth in off all the information that everybody else has she'd light on. You moire an others haven given credentials and I have seen most if not all these wrestlers wrestle so yes off what other people have said and my personal experience.

I'm sold!

Don't get me wrong I too think it would be more on the lines of 13-1 12-2 but it is wrestling and styles do clash, so 10-4 or 11-3, 12-2,13-1 or a 14-0 is all possible. I definetly don't think ky can do better than 4 wins right now

With these two teams.

Mpire writes a lot of stuff, but one thing he's 100% accurate on is how competition makes you better. Yenter has a nice pedigree already. How much better would he be if he wrestled at Medina, Top Gun, Brecksville etc?

How impressive is Union county? I can see how the northern Ky schools are doing well. Trinity/X are blessed with talent pools and resources too. Larue and Union doing what they do without any nearby schools to push them is very noteworthy.

I'm a wrestling nut. I grew up in NE Ohio and have lived in South Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas and Texas. Most of the time programs rise or fall to the competition around them. Ky schools arent ready for St Edward/Perry etc. but it's remarkable we're producing Big Ten caliber kids, even though it's just a handful.

Well most states are not ready for st Ed's but they lose a lot next yr although I suspect they still find a way to stay on top in Oh but I think Wadsworth or someone upset them in the past few yrs .

Tim, I agree with everything you just said with the exception of Union Co comment. They have some very tough Indiana programs right across the river from them like Mater Dei, Memorial, and Reitz! They are also real close to Illinois where they bump into good competition from there and finally the Ervins have a long rich wrestling tradition and background where most of the older Ervins wrestled in College at Illinois & The younger Ervins are currently wrestling at Illinois and if I had to guess Brock might follow suit there too. If not Illinois I can see Brock wrestling for almost any Big Ten program.

Just because Union County is 5 hours away from Ohio doesn't mean they don't face tough competition. They do their fair share of traveling to tournaments in IN, IL, and TN. Hardly ever wrestle in state before the month of January. Just saying.

Trust me Union doesn't wrestle Region 1 guys. If you see Union twice before regionals it is a shock.

I'm sold!

Ha! Thought you might be.

, give me 20 kids who want it I will give you 20 kids going D1.

I have heard you make a statement like this in many of your posts.

There is a flaw in this. I would bet that any wrestler you ask will tell you they "want it".

Now if you are talking about kids the "want it" and will do what it takes to get it. Then I would argue that anyone with a wrestling background would be able to do the same thing.

Most high school coaches don't get many of these type of kids. Most parents and kids are not willing to sacrifice thier future on something that has a limited chance of success and will bring them little in return for their future.

I applaude you on taking that chance with your kids. I surely hope it works out for their future and yours. (I'm talking past high school and college) Those trophies and medals will eventually be stored away in a closet somewhere gathering dust, much like mine were until my little ones asked to see my state medals. (I actually found the last one in the kids fishtank buried in the gravel).

Don't think that I am bragging here. In my day all you had to do was be stronger and meaner than your opponent and you would more than likely win. I would never survive with what I knew then, in todays wretling in KY.

Its hard for me to reply to your comments without sounding or being arrogant which I am , so now that that Is out of the way I have trained my whole life been a trainer my whole life, I have trained since I was 9 yrs old competed in powerlifting since I was 13 , I have trained quite a few champion bodybuilders power lifters and worked with a few fighter boxers and other athletes and all have had good results and we have learned a lot from each other .

As for saying anyone with a wrestling background could do the same maybe they can I'm sure there are those capable probably more so I never wrestled in a folk style match ever but I think one of the most successful coaches in the country never wrestled either .

Now when my sons decided to wrestle I was very much into training for bodybuilding and powerlifting and staying in shape nutritionally . Pretty much right of the bat I started training them breaking down what moves and routines and exercises would Benifit them as time went by what we did changed as my boy changed just as everyone's workouts should change as they grow and adapt , I also watched teams train and quite a few tapes of college teams training picking out what we thought was best ,

Everyone is different I have one son who did not do well at first but was obviously talented at least to me and a few of my friends who are fairly good judges of ability I had another son who won pretty much right away but is less naturally gifted they evened out pretty much over the years . of course you need the kids who "want it" but I think I can take those kids and give them the extra edge that separates them from the rest actually I do not think , I know I can and so does everyone I have ever trained for anything .

I'm sure there are people with wrestling background that can train kids for wrestling way better than me but I woul be a liar if I said I think there are many that can come close to training kids like I can and my training covers way more than wrestling.

I have been around dozens of coaches with much more wrestling background than me who train their kids

and they have not had the same results , so no I do not think anyone with a wrestling background can have the same results . I think you must have a passion for the sport and winning as well as covering all the aspects not just wrestling and I have found few that were willing to admitt theirs wasn't the only or best way ,not saying mine is I have an open mind I know there is always more an better ways and things to add and improve , I also know that given 20 hard working young kids with dedicated parents I could get 20 scholarships

There's not a doubt in my mind what I can do with kids who have the same attitude , I have seen enough wrestling enough sports and athletes to know if there is a will there is a way and I know I can find that way .

As has been stated the depth is much greater but there have been Ky kids doing well in OH , of course my personal beef was with a few blasting my kids I know why they comment they know kids have been off the Matt and wish to hit someone when they are down because that's the only way they can beat certain kids who have shown them up, I doubt any Norther Oh people care about Ky it's obviously the SW guys who are ticked at having been outdone by Northern Oh and some kids who came to ky .

To say a kid wouldn't make it out of districts is a mistake Austin has never not made it out of districts since 1 st grade same for Steph an both are the only two to win jr high dist every yr ,

Of course they would not be the weight they were in ky that was not thee choice as falsely reported they were not allowed to drop because they did not make weight or get the chance to rather although Steph did but it was before he was allowed to , they should do away with how they do weight very in ky it's unfair and hold kid back making matchup a unfair at times .

Can't post on yappi and didn't do anything to get banned except reply to a dirty pm by a hater .

Noticed They are still on aCollica kick Stephen beat him at every level grade school jr high and HS and he beat and places higher than Newhouse an Bright . As for the rankings comments ky kids are ranked and Stephen was voted # 1 125 lb wrestler in OH last yr and just because someone crosses the river doesn't mean they forget how to wrestle , and josh Lowe smoothing with the haters and dropping kids from his rankings is a joke ,he simply has a chance to blast two kids from Cincy who showed him and his buddies up and gave the SW some hope you know it and everyone in oh Does as well we did it first and better and set the bar .

Of course the current moe clique has a chip on its shoulder having been whipping dogs for the boys for yrs their fab fresh haven't lives up to their expectation or Stephen and Austin will end up where none of them could a 4 timer who dominate Oh Ed's is down next yr bet they still beat moe it's in their psyche ,

Don't know what they mean about puberty and me hiding kids steph wrestled HS for two yrs in oh 93 and 4 I think h wrestled all grades all kids and Austim wrestled open tournys in summer in HS div for yrs he beat two moe kids as an 7th grader over summer one yr

Regardless I'm beating a dead horse myself they seem bent on attacking us when I compliment all who deserve it and yeah I think it's funny their ow ran from Steph last yt at Swowca and still lost to a no ranked kid , that's one of Moes greatest guess , now I'm thinking Austin ends up better than any kid in Cincy ever he knocks out 4 even in ky but at a big weight and he will beat everyone in oh by his jr yr easily just as he did in jr high and jr high in oh is one div,

Ignorant for them to attack him as for his development he has gotten much stronger since the end of the season he would be a contender at 195 in oh next yr without ?

Fahy ,Cooper ,Brock , Jayce , Yenter , Faust , Hamilton , and some others would all do well in Oh Jude with a few weeks of top caliber partners would do well I'm sure that's what athletes do in those situations .

Probably quite a few I missed a for all the ky teams didn't do well against oh teams that did poorly at state talk CC would have beaten a lot of teams at state that they might not at smaller tournys it's the nature of the sport top guns score big at big tournys ,

There are a few teams in Nky that can compete and a few outside of Nky that could compete in Oh not knocking off Ed's or graham but hanging with the average to slightly better teams and gaining i do think it's very possible for a few ky kids to do better than their Oh counterparts and I am sure of one who will and know one who did ,

My point is they seem to try to pay themselves on the back by knocking people who are improving ,take it as the compliment it really is they wouldn't be talking if they were not concerned after being 2 nd rate to Northern OH for so long some Cincy people need an ego boost let them feel confident it makes it that much easier to catch up to them I think some of the wins this yr ky kids had over some of the better Cincy kids woke them up a bit,

You say JJ Jude maybe able to hang with the Ohio kids. Well I believe he has proved he can. Let me explain. The kid (Brandon Taylor) that finished 3rd in this years Ohio high school state championship and was ranked #1 in Div. 2 in Ohio this year JJ Jude beat 11-2 at WSAZ this year. The Taylor kid only lost 6-3 I believe to the eventually Ohio state champion Chris Moore from Clyde. So I believe that proves he at least can hang with Ohio kids.

Jude is a nice wrestler, as is Taylor. As for rankings though: Brakeman Report Taylor #6 DII, Bucksman has him at #7 DII. DI has a handful of guys that would wreck Taylor, another two or three in DIII. That would put Taylor somewhere around #13 to #15 in the state. However, not that any of this is an exact science, Jude beating Taylor might extrapolate out to a top four finish in OH DII. Nice work Jude. This thread has gone on far too long. I have been hoping that somebody would put something together to contradict my suggested match ups. I was alerted that Moeller sent a team to Simon Kenton in '08 or '09. Some schedule snafu left an open date on their schedule. They sent a team comprised of primarily frosh and JV wrestlers w/ a few upperclassmen and hammered the field. Sorry to be vague on the details, I wasn't given much info. I will have to dig a bit more and get after my Moeller connection, unless someone can shed some light on this.

Taylor is ranked #1 Div. 2 by OWR ( Ohio Wrestling rankings) and he finished 3rd in the state so I don't see how you have him in the 13 to 15 range. Jude out wrestled the kid by a lot (11-2) and the Taylor kid only lost to the eventual state champ 6-3 I believe so I think Jude could have very well placed first in Ohio aswell. He has earned everyones respect. He has been a all american the past 3 years while finishing runner up his sophomore year.

I thought I gave him much respect , I said I thought he could hang and do well with a few good weeks training with good partners because he has the tools . Can't show much more than that . I have never seen him wrestle a top top caliber kid and he didn't exactly slaughter the field at state as some kids did , or was 170 that deep in KY ,he impressed me physically and had a hard nosed attitude but I have seen better wrestlers , not opening up another debate I like him of course I would he's a tank .

Bluesdad, I will type this slowly for you. The foremost authorities on ranking Ohio wrestling are Brakeman and Bucksman. Brakeman does a fantastically thorough annual report and Bucksman gives updates throughout the year as well as an in depth state preview. Furthermore, Bucksman (Josh Lowe) is one of the most well respected wrestling analysts on the high school AND collegiate level NATIONWIDE. This OWR you speak of is not nearly as highly regarded AND in its state preview issue it shows Taylor at #5, that is a backwards 2. In addition, the rank is for DII. NOT all divisions. Take a look at DI and you will find a myriad of studs that would thump Taylor something awful. So, Jude layed the wood to OWR #5 Brakeman #6 Bucksman #7 (in DII mind you) Taylor. As an aside, Brakeman mentioned that DII 170 was on the weak side this year. Do yourself a favor and look these up (no sarcasm intended), they are very well written and it is clear these guys have their fingers on the pulse of wrestling. Perhaps Ohio's seeding of the state tournament by district finish has you confused. Sure enough, Taylor came out of Goshen as a top placer. The (1) indicates his finish at district NOT HIS RANK. Taylor has never ever entered state champ consideration.This idea of seeding the state tournament is quite a novel idea. I hope that KY finds it useful to do this in the future. As for my comment that Taylor would fall somewhere in the 13 to 15 range statewide........that may have been generous. I see at least seven DI guys and two DIII guys ahead of him. Add in the four DII guys and that puts Taylor at 14. Concerning Taylor's 3rd place finish. He has the bracket gods to thank for that. He beat #16 and #8 before losing to #1. Then he beat a non ranked kid and the #10 kid to take 3rd. Not an eye opening performance by any stretch. I hope this helps.

Actually I like Jude a lot he's a freak and my sons said he was a bad a football player so he must be impressive . I'm sure if he dedicated himself to only wrestling as the top kids in OH do Otto he would probably win in OH without ?

After thinking about what if Jude we're my son how would I reply that's what I would say . The kid is awesome give him his props .

He still can't work Austin like some people said but he is a great athlete lol.

Ok Otto I like you you do know a lot but I know both people Bucksman "Lowe " is a consummate OH particularly Northern OH homer I have seen him and others rank SW kids lower than they should many times an sometime give them their due but always he has been a OH homer compare his rankings to USA rankings I like all the rankings it's fun but seriously you drop a kid voted # 1 125 in Oh last year off your rankings for crossing the river an automatically place a few who were under him way ahead .

Hes a homer and has an agenda ,

As for Breakman great guy he lives and breaths st Eds I think that about covers it .

I may be an outcast hated egomaniacal braggart of a dad who lives through his kids , but I'm totally right on this one .

And Otto I'm going to tell you now Austin is going to eat up Oh before hea done his training partner and good friend just won OAC jr high state tonight hvy Awesome job Joe Hensley Glad you are a part of my MPIRE and one of our closest friends looking forward to another year of training , I love it when my clients win , that was some promo

Thankyou, Mpire. It was good having Austin with us this weekend. I've said this before, but he is an awesome young man. He and Joe clowned all weekend, ate good and basically giggled all weekend. Your strength drills Joe did with you all summer absolutely helped him get where he is. As any Dad knows... our kids don't always want to listen to us. But, put them at a first rate fighting/lifting gym with a bunch of other studs and you training them and you will see results! Thanks again for letting Austin join us this weekend, it was a pleasure having him.

Ok Otto I like you you do know a lot but I know both people Bucksman "Lowe " is a consummate OH particularly Northern OH homer I have seen him and others rank SW kids lower than they should many times an sometime give them their due but always he has been a OH homer compare his rankings to USA rankings I like all the rankings it's fun but seriously you drop a kid voted # 1 125 in Oh last year off your rankings for crossing the river an automatically place a few who were under him way ahead .

Hes a homer and has an agenda ,

As for Breakman great guy he lives and breaths st Eds I think that about covers it .

I may be an outcast hated egomaniacal braggart of a dad who lives through his kids , but I'm totally right on this one .

And Otto I'm going to tell you now Austin is going to eat up Oh before hea done his training partner and good friend just won OAC jr high state tonight hvy Awesome job Joe Hensley Glad you are a part of my MPIRE and one of our closest friends looking forward to another year of training , I love it when my clients win , that was some promo

Mpire, I will agree w/ you that both Bucksman and Brakeman have and show their northern bias. However, look at their accuracy and you will see that they are right far more than they are wrong. As for Bucksman having some sort of agenda against your son. I agree to some point. I will also say that Bucksman had nothing to go on. There were no offseason results, unless I am mistaken. The in season results were against what most would consider lesser opponents. So this makes ranking difficult. The wrestling world knows that your sons are talented. It needs to be shown though. You know as well as anybody that you cannot rest on your laurels.

^{So I think we can all agree that our top 10 or 15 wrestlers can compete (or at lest keep it close) wtih most of the Ohio kids (as lon as they are not named Jordan on Schlater). Where we are lacking is once we get past this handful of very good kids the talend pool drops off quickly. For example in the state finals most of us knew who the champion would be going in and how many weight classes did we have where we thought 3 or 4 kids had a realistic shot?}

I forgot to mention that Campbell Co will probably not be in the SWOWCA tournament next year. They have capped it at 40 teams and I'm told Campbell Co is 7th on the waiting list.

That stinks About SWOWCA ,

Otto he was dropped below kids who also did not do summer tournys that he was higher than at the end of the year .I understand rankings but I also know when it's obvious people have agendas you go by past present achievement and looking at overall body of work and that past achievement as well as the movement of upper level kids out o his class I doubt any non bias person would drop him , In other word kids ran their a$& off including one he was ranked ahead of last year who Bucksman moved ahead of him as soon as he moved to ky . Obvious OH homer ,as I said wrestling USA rankings are more reliable , and I think an OH guy does them as well but they seem to cover a wider range of kids across the country and look deeper .

That stinks About SWOWCA ,

Otto he was dropped below kids who also did not do summer tournys that he was higher than at the end of the year .I understand rankings but I also know when it's obvious people have agendas you go by past present achievement and looking at overall body of work and that past achievement as well as the movement of upper level kids out o his class I doubt any non bias person would drop him , In other word kids ran their a$& off including one he was ranked ahead of last year who Bucksman moved ahead of him as soon as he moved to ky . Obvious OH homer ,as I said wrestling USA rankings are more reliable , and I think an OH guy does them as well but they seem to cover a wider range of kids across the country and look deeper .

Well then that really stinks. There is no reason to bring personal agendas into the rankings as it is nor a personality contest. As for no SWOWCA, I am holding out hope that CC goes. The defending team champs ought to get some kind of preferential treatment.

He// yeah Swowca is awesome its great when you know people are so jealous of you they kick you out for getting your 2 yr old a doughnut from the coaches room when you have a band . Didn't matter I could be on the moon and I'm still on the Matt with my boys in spirit . They know at now what happens when you disrespect anyone in the Mpire you will pay I'm sure moe can get cc in and I know it's moe staff who are in charge of Swowca they are probably scared though their greatest underclass men of all time and the two best jr high wrestlers in the history of Cincy wrestling coming on a different team ,

Won't matter we will see them sooner or later .

Iron Man ladies and gentleman , Austin will beg his coaches for A shot or two at it an if CC has any nads at all they will get In it is the ultimate tournament I know you agree Otto ,

Pretty sure no ky TEAM is allowed to go, now individuals are allowed to go but not as a team

He// yeah Swowca is awesome its great when you know people are so jealous of you they kick you out for getting your 2 yr old a doughnut from the coaches room when you have a band . Didn't matter I could be on the moon and I'm still on the Matt with my boys in spirit . They know at now what happens when you disrespect anyone in the Mpire you will pay I'm sure moe can get cc in and I know it's moe staff who are in charge of Swowca they are probably scared though their greatest underclass men of all time and the two best jr high wrestlers in the history of Cincy wrestling coming on a different team ,

Won't matter we will see them sooner or later .

Iron Man ladies and gentleman , Austin will beg his coaches for A shot or two at it an if CC has any nads at all they will get In it is the ultimate tournament I know you agree Otto ,

I agree wholeheartedly that it would be great to see your boys here at Ironman. Give Mr Pruesse a call. He will let you in! You have to initiate contact though. As for the entire CC team? Well..........not so fast. You know as well as I do that CC would have 12 kids go 0 and 2, maybe a few would go 1 and 2. Your boys would/should place. You know the drill. Packed house. Must buy all session pass to get a finals ticket. Most weights are a handful deep in national talent. I don't know that it would benefit the entire team though. Not sure that Moeller is in charge of SWOWCA, that is quite an "accusation". I am certain that the other programs in the area (Elder, Mason, Lakota West, and others) would not stand for that. I believe there is a board that governs the event. SWOWCA is a good tournament. Probably the best one in southwest OH. It is comprised primarily of teams from that region though, and many placers don't sniff the podium at state. It makes sense for CC, Simon Kenton, Ryle to attend. Mater Dei used to come. They always brought a bunch of gamers. I used to go to SWOWCA, as I have family in the area. Haven't been in a few years, and I did hear you got a special escort out of the place . You need to look into Medina and Brecksville as well. The other events I see KY teams at are crappy. Sorry but it is true. Fairfield, Reading, Sycamore invites. Really? Come on, jump in the fire. Chase down Soddy Daisy or Fr Ryan in TN. Grab ahold of Mater Dei in IN. Make a home-and-home tri meet out of it. CC, Fr Ryan, Larue, and Ryle. Great event, no? Duals type events are what generate interest both with fans and participation. It brings people out to watch and builds team chemistry. The less talented wrestlers are guaranteed matches, though sometimes the better wrestlers find guys ducking them. You know, like Fahy not showing up. Sorry, couldn't resist. He did grab 4th at Beast this year. Granted it is nowhere near Ironman, but still a great event and he gets props not only for going but also for placing! Enough talk. Get them up here, no excuses. Many kids come to Ironman w/out their team from as far away as California. Hey, place here and Bucksman has to acknowledge it!

I have seen teams from Cali come to iron man with a couple studs and the rest avg there are others Faust is a soph Hamilton will be a sr and has big tourny exp that's at least 4 ,my eacort came at the request of a moe coaches wife who run Swowca haha a total setup th whole city knows the truth ask nick spatola he knows what went on it was a joke ,

I guess If they can't beat my kids they have to ruin it somehow for me but I get the last laugh , they will never win a state team title and my boys have rings on the way lol , seems the " board " at Swowca might let the KY state champs in , I know and you know just as well everyone would want to see it ,but hey keep CC out let it be boooooring and protect the status quo and the prima Donnas .

The rumble will be good as well, I like Powerade as well not sure the boys could go to Iron Man alone but I know Austin would go alone .

Thankyou, Mpire. It was good having Austin with us this weekend. I've said this before, but he is an awesome young man. He and Joe clowned all weekend, ate good and basically giggled all weekend. Your strength drills Joe did with you all summer absolutely helped him get where he is. As any Dad knows... our kids don't always want to listen to us. But, put them at a first rate fighting/lifting gym with a bunch of other studs and you training them and you will see results! Thanks again for letting Austin join us this weekend, it was a pleasure having him.

249lb finalist? That kid he beat was a giant. Awesome match.

<p><iframe title="249 lbs FINAL Seth Crissman VS Joe Hensley" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.gohiocasts.com/embed/NzM4NjIwMTYx?related=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><p><a href="

Hahahahahahahha thats awesome stuff that kid was huge way to work joe nice movement and smart wrestling guillotine was nice good shots and nice lift in the third , scary Rollin around with someone that big but keeping calm looked like the key good strength off the bottom a big kid having to kick you out every time says a lot ,awesome job , now get ready for High School and be sure to let us know if you need any help moving next week you will look awesome in purple and gold !!

Iron Man ladies and gentleman , Austin will beg his coaches for A shot or two at it an if CC has any nads at all they will get In it is the ultimate tournament

Are you serious? Did you just call out your new team coaches? After they just took in your kids so that they could wrestle this past season?

Why in the world would CC send their entire team all the way to the Iron Man tourney? Thats a four hour trip or more on a bus, and an overnight stay. Would be a great waste of school money just so maybe 2 kids get some competition.

As otto said most would go 0-2 and a couple maybe 1-2.

The problem with wrestling programs in Ky is $$$. Public school have to spend their money wisely and get the greatest good for the greatest number of kids. CC doesn't even send their entire team to the GMV or the Fairfield tourney most years.

Your best bet would be to raise the money for your kids to go and take them yourself. Most of the other Ky kids that attended this tourney did this. If I'm not mistakin Korey Shotwell did this a couple of years ago for CC.

Are you serious , trying to act like I called out my kids coaches after "they took them in "Wt@is your deal pal no one took my kids in they are wrestlers and came to CC so they wrestle simple as that no need for the melodrama its a symbiotic relationship that obviously worked out for everyone because some people stayed cool and finally some made the right choices and I didn't call anyone out just a friendly challenge because I think there are more than two kids who can win some matches at Iron Man on the team and so do the coaches at CC .

And by the way pot stirer the coaches at CC were the ones who brought up going to some big tournys next yr and if I'm not mistaken IRON MAN was mentioned by some coaches way before my boys even stepped on any Matt in a CC singlet .

And it would be my opinion that even if only 1 kid on the team won 1 match Iron Man would be worth it kids and coaches alike may never see that kind of talent in one room EVER I have been there and It is actually more impressive than advertised which is rare ,

Campbell County are Kentucky State Champions they will have kids "plural " that can place at Iron Man over the next few years they have one that has and 3 more at least with the capability too next yr and beyond , if kids are allowed to go on their own then that would create an incredible scenario where I would get together with some dads and coaches formation the state to have some real fun .

Imagine Brock , Jayce , Lampe , some of the other lighter weights who's names I cannot think of Faust , Hamilton , Stephen ,Cooper , Chamberle ,Austin , the 195 kid Bryant I think and if I were Ryle I would send their freshman Meiman and Belk for the experience ,

It would be a team ky thing but I doubt Preuse would let anyone other than State champ level kids inn and maybe only then with some serious credentials so I see a couple Union kids a couple CC kids 1 SK kid maybe only 5 Brock Jayce Stephen Austin and Cooper , all multiple x state champs except Austin who Preuse would probably let in before everyone else because of his sise and having the best credentials of everyone despite possibly getting severely beaten .

I actually wonder where they will rank Austin he wrestled up won state and was the nations # 1 ranked freshman at 195 this yr .

Talk all the it's KY you want he should be # 1 fresh soph next yr maybe top 3 I know he was ranked to low this yr on the fresh soph rankings I know there were kids in the top 5 he could beat .

That's right CC Wrestler old school Norse Gods should get preference In rankings because I'm an arrogant dad living vicariously through his kids lol , Austin is going to WIN IRON MAN before he is done remember I told your troublemaking butt and when he does he ends up ranked # 1 overall in class in the nation ,

Now I have bragged and vented good night all .

Not so fast, Mpire. Let's back up.

Are you saying the young man who just won the Ohio (OAC) Hwt class will be a frosh at Campbell County this fall? That's a heckuva pickup to say the least.

Lol

Could you imagine CC would dominate the upper weights for a few and two kids who have been partners for the last few yrs and are now both jr high OAC state champs working together through HS one could only dream , No big Joe is goin Moe good luck to him they are getting a good one but anything is possible 8 state titles for two big boys would be insane and no matter if it would be KY or not it would draw the eyes of every recruiter in the country ,

Anybody have any moving boxes? Lol seriously, Mpire is right about Ironman. No reason why CC and a few others shouldn't send some guys there. You have to put it in perspective. Win or lose, if they can get in, DO IT! If you wanna be the best, you have to beat the best. And how do you expect a wrestler to know what that level of competitor FEELS like to wrestle, if they've never tangled with one? That's the key. IRON SHARPENS IRON. So what if its four hrs away? Id walk a mile for a Camel (old cigarette ad reference there), and I would and do drive four and sometimes 10 and 12 hrs away for competition. Keep rockin Cambell County! You've got the momentum, jump to the next level!

Just my 2 cents. And thats about all its worh.

According to some of you out there CC is on the verge of being something else.

I guess this is the point where the team has to decide if it becomes bigger than the school or still part of the school.

If it becomes bigger than the school then it no longer will be for everyone. What do I mean by that? I mean the wrestling team and the wrestlers will be above the rest. Not everyone will come out for the team. Maybe only the best athletes. If this is what they want that is their decision.

If they don't make that leap and catter to everyone, not just the best, then they can still get those kids that may only win 20 matches their senior year. I personally thought this is what made CC unique. Coach B had always been able to coach that kid to be the best he can be, even if it ment winning 4 matches in that year. And that kid was proud of it.

If CC starts going to more and more tourneys like Iron Man, they lose those kids and only catter to the few who are capable. The question is do they want to be nationally known or just win KY state and be state known.

Just my 2 cents. And thats about all its worh.

According to some of you out there CC is on the verge of being something else.

I guess this is the point where the team has to decide if it becomes bigger than the school or still part of the school.

If it becomes bigger than the school then it no longer will be for everyone. What do I mean by that? I mean the wrestling team and the wrestlers will be above the rest. Not everyone will come out for the team. Maybe only the best athletes. If this is what they want that is their decision.

If they don't make that leap and catter to everyone, not just the best, then they can still get those kids that may only win 20 matches their senior year. I personally thought this is what made CC unique. Coach B had always been able to coach that kid to be the best he can be, even if it ment winning 4 matches in that year. And that kid was proud of it.

If CC starts going to more and more tourneys like Iron Man, they lose those kids and only catter to the few who are capable. The question is do they want to be nationally known or just win KY state and be state known.

Why can't you do both? I feel that successful teams pull more kids (of all abilities). I know that CC has and will continue to have a very legitamate JV schedule (majority of which are varsity tournaments). That is why they can bring a guy up from JV and have them do fairly well at the Varsity spot. Why not take the average kid to Ironman, "if it doesn't kill you it will only make you stronger" fits here if you take an average kid and expose them to very tough comp. then when they wrestle at an average comp tourney they could dominate.

I think your wrong , and it's obvious no matter what schedule you are on it will never fit any wrestler perfect a weak schedule will hurt everyone on a team , you get better wrestling good comp period and there are plenty of normal tournaments to do suiting the year that the not so experienced kids can get in good matches and their level of challenge , there are other options multiple schedules A and B teams if it is allowed , being all humble and pretending someone would be letting everyone down wrestling a few big tournys is a joke they would actually letting the average level kids down protecting their records by not exposing them to top tournys , it is what the sport is about if I were a coach I would want all my kids to experience the sport at all levels not just on a small level where everyone could feel like a big fish in a little pond ,

But being the person that I am I can read between the lines and see this may be just another post trying to rally up support against a couple of studs by saying if a coach caters to them he is hurting everyone .

You may have just played your hand , what parent or coach wouldn't want their team or kids to experience te beat the sport can offer and who would post what you did in order to rally support against it ,

Hopefully Coach B caters to everyone and in doing so actually helps everyone even more .

Who knows maybe that kid who may only be a "20 win a year kid Ironic isn't it "since 2 state champs at cc only had 20 , mayb that kids learns a few things or gets the desire from that big tourny exposure to jump to the next level .

As state champs represent as well it's wHat should be done in order to expand the sport in the state .

I'm actually shocked at your post

I think coach B has always had a strong schedule especially for a KY team, but most of CC's varsity lineup is average and or above, and taking a few good beatings here and there will ultimately make you a much tougher wrestler in the long run. For instance my freshman year got teched 17-2 both times at gmv. I came back the next year and got 6th, and then 2nd. So what I'm saying is take those lumps and get them outta the way so that you can compete at a higher level and then be the one ti.give the beatings, I would love if we went to ironman...

Best to put together a strong in season schedule to prepare for the post season. In season schedule should be tougher than the state tournament. In this way, the team will go into the state meet battle tested. They will be able to go beyond their competition, taking them to uncharted waters.

Wow: Mpire you sound like my wife. She finds sarcasm, and hiden agendas in everything people do or say. I am a "Say what you mean, mean what you say" kind of person.

I'm not sure what direction I would go if I was in control of CC. I guess it would depend on the numbers coming out for the team. If the numbers are dropping then you may need to lighten up on the schedule. If they are high then toughen it up.

Unfortunately there are not as many kids around like yours Mpire. Who thrive on competition. Many of the older coaches complain nowadays because it is so hard to motivate kids to work hard and have the desire to be the best. As someone in an earlier post stated. CC does not even send their entire varsity team to the GMV and Fairfield tourneys. Who would they send to the Iron Man? Probably only about 6-7 kids.

Here is the real question. What is the ultimate goal of a wretling team? I think there are 2 answers or beliefs.

1. To be the best team all around.

2. To be the best team in your state.

I realize if you are the 1st then you wil be the second, but what is it they realy want to accomplish?

Well you state what direction would he take and that you liked him catering to the newer kids so that must mean you think he shouldn't cater to all or the upper level kids .

You are losing me here if your team is the state champs and kids are making noise all over more kids will give it a shot for sure trust me if Cc won state in football more kids would con out ,

Bro I will tell you right now there will be legends that littl kids try to be like for years to come at CC ,

Trust me ,

I was much more active in the 90's. When CC won back to back state titles. Their numbers declined. after those 2 titles. It took them several years to build back up. Maybe it was a coincidence, but I was told it was because students didn't think they would break the lineup so they did not come out.

I do not agree with this mentality I just know it exists.

I didn't say that I prefer to cater to the average kid. But you have to think about both ends of the spectrum. If you have half your varsity team going 500 then you will lose many of them. You also take the chance of loosing a decent seed in the regional tourney if your record is poor, even if it is against the top level kids. (I've seen it happen)

I believe a balance is needed. But before you send an entire team to the Iron Man then you need to make sure the majority of your team is ready for it. That does not mean they all must be able to place, but they should be able to compete. On CC right now I think only 1 wrestler would place (Stephen). Austin would be close and maybe Fausz (he would need to either drop a weight class or get bigger) The next possible would be Hamilton, but he is way to small and weak for the wt. class he was wrestling to compete in the Iron Man. That leaves 10 wrestlers getting "2 and a tee". Not what you would call benificial to the team.

Before entering the Iron Man they should pick up some other tourneys like the GMV or better.

That may be true about the team back in the 90 but youth and jr high are probably well they are different now cc won jr High state as well. So those kids will be on a higher level coming in sorry but I have to disagree about the kids you have placing Hamilton Stephen and Fausz will raise each others level of they start early I think it would take a little more than six hard weeks to prepare for Iron man and Austin can place there if he gets some partners he has the best shot of any to actually win before he's done . He has wrestled some of the kids who have placed there before and he will surpass them easily , the lighter weight classes at Iron Man anything can happen .!

I believe CCMS has won state the last 3 years.

How many of those kids are on the high school team? I believe 2 were on the varsity team this year. Since CC had a very small JV squad this year I would say not many.

Are there any rules in KY about the number of matches in state a team or individual must have to qualify for KY post season wrestling?

I've always agreed with the philosophy that you have to wrestle the best to beat the best. I am not sure the philisophy applies at all cost to the high school season schedule. There are plenty of off season opportunities to meet all the Ironman, Beast of the East, The Clash types of competition. Seems like traveling to these these types of tournaments during the HS season opens teams up to a lot of internal squabbles and financial concerns. We are hearing them on here already.

You can alternate your schedule year to year as well, nobody is on here saying that the ironman must stay on CC's schedule you can try it one year. See what happens and if you like the way your kids compete on that type of level and make adjustments to your schedule if needed, I just think its time for for KY to show other states that we are improving and the only way to do that is through tournaments like these, and the best team right now to try and prove that is CC.

No there is no rule that states you must wrestle in the state a certain number of times.

rideemout: I agree that better teams need to go to higher quality tourney. However I don't think the Iron Man is on the radar yet for any team in Ky YET.

I Know that there are individuals that can compete and KY should still send those individuals like they have in the past. I believe Both Kye Rushell and Mason Reid went one year for Ryle, and Korey Shotwell went for CC a few years ago. I think both Trinity and Union may have sent some individuals also.

Travel costs are a huge problem in high school wrestling (especially for public school teams). Most schools can only afford to go (at most) 2 hours away to a tourney. You have over night costs and food costs on top of bus driver costs and fuel costs. Many public schools require that a bus be taken to all events and even if the coach is driving the coach gets paid while driving.

What tough tourneys would be within 2 hours of NKY? Those are the one's that CC, SK, and Ryle should be looking at.

The Ironman debate is a mute point if the team is not invited. Remember, this is the best tournament in the country, bar none. Pruesse and Co. choose the entire field. The powers that be at CC can petition/request to be invited. The Myers crew has upped CC's profile, however the program needs to define itself. A trip to Ironman is a statement that "We belong on the national stage". CC is not there yet. Baby steps, baby steps. Create a couple of tri-meets with top flight regional talent. Attend Medina, Brecksville, SWOWCA and the like. Dump the crummy events. This is a process that takes years. A high level of success at the youth level is a must. Participation in freestyle and greco is a must. Hitting off season tournaments is a must. If your boys aren't ready/willing to do this, well then forget about it. Look at the credentials of the wrestlers at Ironman. These kids get after it in Fargo, Filas, Super 32, FS/GR state. Many weights are ten to twelve deep with absolute studs. State champs struggle to place.

No there is no rule that states you must wrestle in the state a certain number of times.

rideemout: I agree that better teams need to go to higher quality tourney. However I don't think the Iron Man is on the radar yet for any team in Ky YET.

I Know that there are individuals that can compete and KY should still send those individuals like they have in the past. I believe Both Kye Rushell and Mason Reid went one year for Ryle, and Korey Shotwell went for CC a few years ago. I think both Trinity and Union may have sent some individuals also.

Travel costs are a huge problem in high school wrestling (especially for public school teams). Most schools can only afford to go (at most) 2 hours away to a tourney. You have over night costs and food costs on top of bus driver costs and fuel costs. Many public schools require that a bus be taken to all events and even if the coach is driving the coach gets paid while driving.

What tough tourneys would be within 2 hours of NKY? Those are the one's that CC, SK, and Ryle should be looking at.

Good points.

Otto a lot of reall good kids probably more than half never wrestle fr and gr , I bet 90 % of Graham's team never wrestled fr and gr , just an observation on my part that I always noticed about Graham.

As for baby steps I don't believe in them your asking to get good at a slow rate ,

Good things come to those who wait ...

But only those things left by those who don't

I do like the idea of mixing up the big tournys but if a team could get in Iron Man every year they would be foolish not to go win lose or get totally demolished!

CO. The crummy events that you refer to are the ones that the KY boys attend so they can get a look at the KY competition, or are somewhat required to go to. NKAC, Jefferson Co. tournament.

No matter what competition you go against you still need to see the people you will face in the state tourney. But a mixture of both would be the best possible scenerio.

if a team could get in Iron Man every year they would be foolish not to go win lose or get totally demolished!

I thnk here is where I will agree to disagree. Getting totally demolished is not worth the trip. As stated before most kids are not as competitive as yours. (If they were they would be on the same level as yours). Having an entire team get demolished is usually a moral buster for many kids. If most or all go 2 and out there is no desire to stay. Being that far from home most parents, kids, and coaches will want to go home.

I myself was one of those kids that wanted to wrestle the best kids, didn't matter if I got beat or not. I never knew the meaning of being beaten before you stepped on the mat. And I never walked off a mat saying "I can't beat that kid" Even if he whooped me by 20 (No tech pins in my day, and I was only pinned twice in my career in high school) But these are not the kids we have today. Like it or not it's the hand we are dealt.

Let's be honest , and this is the truth I know it ,the kids and teams that are doing the top tournaments in the country enjoy those people who THINK they are not good enough to do them it keeps them away and from ever reaching those levels by learning what it takes and that they can actually be that dam; good .

I know ,my kids came from a good school but not known for wrestling and we were always told no one from there was good enough for the big tournys by everyone from within and without, guess what they were. And there are plenty of kids out there who are told and who's coaches and parent are led to believe they are not that level ,

Say anything you want about me or anything I say or do but the fact is I know quite a bit about the sport not as a great coach but as a very interested observer a student of the sport and someone who knew very very little about it and below make a few kids pretty good wrestlers ,

Keep that infectious weak @$$ minded loser attitude as far away from me and mine as possible , it's sickening to me .

I think the Beast is available to individuals, the state has had a number of Trinity and Ryle kids attend the past few years I think the Murton's went up there one year. Its not as good as it used to be, Graham nor Eds nor Easton have attended the past few years, but still very good teams attending, get to see Blair and some very good PA and East Coast Schools.

Saw some of team KYs kids tonight they have good talent not sure how sharp they will be being after season and some out of their weight class but they can hang as for the cross river rivalry NKY vs SW OH , I think Faust Myers Cooper Hamilton Myers Possibly Chamberle all of whom I saw tonight can hang with anyone in SW OH if not beat them some handily .

I have to say Stephen is one of those kids who can goof off and still tear it up in a couple weeks particularly if he ever gets to wrestle his real weight as a everyone will see next year ,Cooper is a first class banger and will beat everyone in SW OH up next yr again and Faust has beaten some Good OH kids and Hamilton has skills that will become more apparent next year as he has the best training partner in th Tri state to go with no bragging no dad Bs it's a fact if you score and can bang with Stephen when he's on then you will be good . As for Austin lol there has never been anyone like him in NKY or SW OH get ready to see some kids get literally squashed over the next 3 years by the end of his soph yr he will be the strongest kid on any Matt in all KY or OH , yes I said either state .

Next year will be a golden age for KY wrestling if everyone does their part and everything goes as it can .

Well,justice is served ,Grant Co fires its Football coach and Austin Myers wins Fresh Nationals and an OW all in the same week LMAO,

Now hows that for Karma ,And yes KY did pretty darn good against the world this week all things considered and yes CC does have some kids that could hang at Iron Man