Unfortunately, North Oldham will lose three middle school state champs, Hudson Heidorf and Keagan Duncan are headed to Trinity - A.J. Binder will attend St. X.

I'm sure Coach Brown will continue put a very competitive team on the mat, thanks to the outstanding wrestlers that continue to fall in his lap.

Personally I would have liked to seen them chose St. X, learn the life lessons taught by Coach Kraeszig. Rather than learning to tap out when put on their backs. Either way, I wish all three of them very successful wrestling careers and thank them for their hard work while wrestling for North.

Standup; While I understand your frustration. The tap-out did not start with Trinity High school. The claims started when most of the "Tappers" were in middle school. I believe that Coach Brown has addressed that problem with his team and you don't see it happening at Trinity.

As for those kids going to X or Trinity. It's the nature of the beast. A kid can go to any high school he likes his freshman year and participate at that school. I personally have no problem with kids starting there sport career at any high school they want. As long as they start their freshman season at that school. After that there are tranfer rules that must be followed.

I see this as both a good and bad thing. its hard when private schools can get whoever they want. And with a great youth and middle school base in ky now, its easy to see who to Target. But in the other hand I think it shows where ky wrestling is going. It's a bigger sport now and more is at stake. 15-20 yrs ago you didn't see this, but now with state titles and scholarships on the line its gotten to be like other major sports. Good or bad, it is what it is. I hate to see a team of kids who should have went other places, but anymore that's just the way it is. Hopefully some day soon we will get back to the home grown schools winning titles.

I don't be grudge their decision at all, we knew from the get go that these kids were going to migrate to Catholic HS's. I just hate seeing them go to Trinity. I'm not a Trinity fan for many reasons, their enticement of middle athletes being the least of them. The only thing I did like about Trinity was Mark Hitchins and now he's gone. Its gonna be difficult for me to root for these guys, whom Im very fond of, while their wearing a Trinity singlet. Yet, I will be pulling for them in every match they wrestle, except when they are heads up against North.

All that being said, I am just a fan these days without a dog in the fight, as I have stepped away from coaching for a while.

Congrats on these kids for having the right to go to their school of choice or persuation. Coach Goldsmith is one of the finest people ive met in wrestling and that carries over the the North Oldham program and the kids that represent it.

Having seen kids come up thru club to high school ranks I find myself rooting for individuals moreso than what team they may be on. That being said a win verses one of the "holier than thou" schools is always a little sweeter.

Fireplug; You are correct. Other sports have been going through this for a while now. Here in Nky we have two football programs that seem to draw kids from other districts. Highlands and Beechwood which are not private schools. I'm not saying they recruited. I'm saying that kids start their freshman year at these schools after attending middle schools in other districts. Once again not a problem for me, make the decision you think is best for your kid his freshman year and attend that school.

stand-up, it is funny that you would criticize Coach Brown for the tapping thing while also saying that I(Coach Hitchings) was one of the things you liked about Trinity. You are forgeting that the tapping issue started with my teams with the Fern Creek youth program and then that issue came up at Trinity when some of the same kids tapped when in high school. We addressed this with the guilty parties when it happened in middle school and high school. We threatened to forfeit matches if it happened again. We told the kids to put their blades on the mat if they wanted off the mat. Many kids who started at Fern Creek and finished at Trinity (Brad, Brent, Grant, Myron, John) never tapped once in their career and were embarressed when they saw their teammate do it. It was never taught. It was a few individuals who had character or physical issues that led them to tap. Once those individual kids graduated, those issues were gone. I've really tired of this issue being brought up. Please watch my Fern Creek teams closely in the future to see if you see any tappers!

Just wondering how you lose something never had? A high school lost middle schoolers? My son's 8th grade class will be moving on to over a dozen different high schools. Choice is good when it comes to this, regardless of the critics you have to do whats best for you. I know of other kids who made the same decision but arent state champions, nobodys mentioning them. Why? Good luck to all the incoming freshman.

Congrats on these kids for having the right to go to their school of choice or persuation. Coach Goldsmith is one of the finest people ive met in wrestling and that carries over the the North Oldham program and the kids that represent it.

Having seen kids come up thru club to high school ranks I find myself rooting for individuals moreso than what team they may be on. That being said a win verses one of the "holier than thou" schools is always a little sweeter.

I'm with you on two accounts....Kyle Goldsmith is as good as it gets in MS/youth wrestling and cheer for the kid when they aren't directly affecting my team, but the holier than thou thing? X and Trinity are just plain good schools....I'm not a hater.

I agree with rooting for individuals. But I also seem to root more for the public schools than the private. There is a misconception that private are better than public, but in most cases that is not true. Academic or Athletic.

I agree with rooting for individuals. But I also seem to root more for the public schools than the private. There is a misconception that private are better than public, but in most cases that is not true. Academic or Athletic.

It's unfortunate that so many people have chosen this public site to throw stones at one of the most successful coaches (and programs) in our state and have brought the futures of two fine young wrestlers into the discussion. I have coached Keegan and Hudson for years and have gotten to know both boys and their fathers well. I have had many conversations with them about their futures and can assure everyone that they have chosen to attend Trinity for all of the right reasons. It's a first-rate academic institution, which also trains young boys to be proper men and produces championship-quality wrestlers. How could anyone second-guess a decision to go there?

Some of you will choose to misunderstand these comments to mean that I am an apologist for Trinity, and you would be wrong. Though I coached in the middle school program there and am well-acquainted with all of the people and issues that have been discussed on this site, I am no longer part of the program. Even though Coach Brown and I had different visions for how to run a youth program, I have great respect for him as a coach. I have been around wrestling for 40+ years, was a 3-time college letterman, and have been coaching middle school wrestling for several years. Richard is one of the top technical instructors I have known at any level. In addition, his postseason successes should make it clear to everyone that he is excellent in getting the most from his teams when it counts. It would also be a mistake to attribute Trinity's success to recruiting. Although many of the top wrestlers there started their careers elsewhere, there have also been quite a few successful wrestlers in their program who didn't start wrestling until they got to Trinity. During my time there, it was my experience that Coach Brown was consistently careful to follow the rules governing contacts with potential wrestlers from youth programs at other schools.

Finally, those of you who have chosen to use this web site to anonymously make accusations should either be a man and sign your comments or keep them to yourself. Many of the basest allegations on the other Trinity thread here have been posted by someone who has a grudge against the program as a result of his own personal issues. Yes, many of us know who you are and you are dishonoring yourself with these attacks. It's time to move on.

Mark Myers

[email protected]

c'mon bigdaddy;

That is what these sites are for. Much like facebook, these sites are here for people to state opinions that start interesting discussions/arguements.

No one is being hurt and definately no ones mind is being changed on this site. You knew what this thread was when you read the title, what did you expect it was going to be about? If you don't want to see it then don't read it. It's like the kids who claim to be bullied on the internet. If you don't want to be bullied then don't read it. And if you do just remember what my mom always said "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."

Just allow "Stand up" to vent and tell his side of the story or what he believes to be true. I assure you no harm will come from his comments.

P.S. I will stare anonymous (It's more fun that way).

I know standup pretty well and he is not attempting to anonymously attack anyone. I'm sure he is more than willing to speak face to face with anyone on these issues. And as goo says, that is part of the point of these sites; to express our thoughts on interesting topics.

Back in the day standup and i were pretty well in sync on this topic. But i have to say that over the years as i have started to learn some life lessons in dealing with my own boys, I have come to realize that we don't live in the world where kids grow in Mayberry, USA and go to the local school because that is all they have known. Our kids have so, so many more opportunites and we have so much more exposure these days to the world around us that I can't blame anyone for exploring and taking advantage of them. Yes, that means that some of us at the public school may get overlooked and passed on for the opportunities that are available at the big private school (or other public school for that matter). All we can do is continue to improve what we have to offer to the point where the migration goes the other way. Until we do that all we can expect is more movement to the better opportunity.

I am in no way saying that Trinity is the better opportunity in this case. I'm sure that is something that every family has to decide for themselves and I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough with these schools and families to make that determination in these situations.

I think it's pretty classless to drag these boy's names into a post obviously written to slam Coach Brown. Nothing good for Trinity, Coach Brown, the boys, and especially wrestling in general comes from this. Standup should be a gentleman and apologize. Take your issue to the man and not on a board where kids read.

I'm proud if the youth team at the Shamrock Club. We've had great support from Coach Brown and he's as fine a man and coach as anyone in Kentucky wrestling. When I grew up many said the same kinds of things about Lakewood St Edward and their program.

I hope Standup takes some time to self reflect before shooting off again.

Since he has been mentioned in this post, I want to take some time to congratulate AJ on the great attitude and leadership he displayed this past season at River City. It was great to see him mature the way he did, I heard alot of great comments from people and coaches about the new attitude he displayed. I do believe that Coach Quirino and the rest of the River City organization helped play a role in this great step forward for AJ, and I know that attending St. Xavier under the ladership of great role models like Coach Kraeszig, Knable, and Quirino will do nothing but help him move forward in this direction. Congratulations AJ and I wish you nothing but continued success, and I for one am glad "you made the decision" to attend X.

Thanks Mike, I will tell AJ what you said.I will say this I have always heard the arguement that the catholic schools recruit but I can tell you first hand with us It did not happen.When I approached Coach Kraezig the only thing he ever talked about was how ST.X focused on building young kids into good young men,wrestling was never the issue.I even applied for aide but was turned down because of my income and I totally understand I make very good money but am terrible at saving it,LOL.I have taken AJ all over the country to wrestle and it was not cheep,But we had a blast doing it.I now have to buckle down and work a lot of overtime to send him to St.X.I am not worried about his wrestling because he is ate up with it,I am hopeing he turns out to be half the man the coaches at St.X are and that will be his biggest victory. Andy Bindner

I say congrats to these three boys. Getting to attend such nice schools that have heck of a wrestling programs is always a plus! If I didn't go to Union Co, I wouldn't have mind going to either one of these schools. That is if I lived in the Louisville Metro area.

If my comments were taken as a personal attack on Coach Brown, I publicly apologize. Actually I never mentioned his name. What I stated was that over the years I have seen many Trinity wrestlers tapping out in order to avoid being pinned. This statement was not an accusation but rather an observation, which was confirmed by Mark Hitchins. What I was trying to convey was that in my dealings with Coach Kraezig, I have developed a great respect for him and the manner in which he runs his program. On the other hand, I have had less successful interactions when dealing with Coach Brown and have questioned some of the on the mat actions of the young men wresting for him.

Therefore on a personal level, I would have liked to have seen all three of these young men choose St. X. All that being said I have great respect for many of the fine athletes who have wrestled for trinity over the last few years. Most of all being John Fahy. John, while wrestling every match under the spotlight, carried himself with as much class and dignity as any young man I've ever seen.

Additionally, I never stated that the choice to leave North to persue a catholic education was in any way wrong or not in their best interest. Am I disappointed, yes! Do I believe that this hurts North Oldham and their ability to built a more successful program, yes! If you disagree, take a look at the depths which Fern Creek has dropped since the departures happened there many years ago. Was it the best decision those young men, yes. Is it the best decision for these young men, also yes. However, I do believe that it's bad for the two public schools involved, and I also believe it's bad for wrestling.

Once again I wish Hutson, Keagan and AJ the best of luck and very bright futures.

Chris Shofner

Let the slings and arrows begin.

I regress, I did mention Coach Brown by name. Mentioning his continued success in relationship to middle school state champs on his roster. Some may see this as a jab or cheap shot, but who can argue that Coach Brown has had more middle school state champs on his roster over the past 5 - 6 years, than any other coach in the state. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Good luck to Trinity's new recruits. They are good kids.

I regress, I did mention Coach Brown by name. Mentioning his continued success in relationship to middle school state champs on his roster. Some may see this as a jab or cheap shot, but who can argue that Coach Brown has had more middle school state champs on his roster over the past 5 - 6 years, than any other coach in the state. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

I think you are wrong. Remember, Fahy's last one was in 2008 so, at most count only 2 of his 5. I would think Campbell and Union would take offense at that. I've got to say that of all the non-Trinity kids Coach Brown has helped to improve, Hardy Hendren benefited the most. I would think some gratitude would have been in order.

I don't think Trinity or St. X recruit...they don't need to recruit. However, I do think they have a distinct advantage due to the fact that they can bring in "out of county" talent to help their athletic programs and public schools can't, at least not in Jefferson County. I'm not sure how many kids on the Trinity or St. X wrestling teams were from outside of Jefferson County this year, but having the option sure could help them. It has in other years and sports.

So, the Jefferson County public schools end up competing against more talented teams from Trinity and St. X and the county schools that lost them suffer. I don't think the balance is very good with regards to this policy. JMO

Pinthis I will agree with you on that,and if I was a high school coach it would make me a little mad too.Just look at all the middle school state champs that wrestled in the fern creek youth program that went to trinity or x.Just off the top of my head I know of 6.So they are leaveing these public schools for what they think will help their kids more than just wrestling.Hitchings for example says it all,his kids go through the fern creek youth program and he sends them to Trinity,even though he went to fern creek and is now the head coach.I do think Hiichings and Branch will have fern creek back in the hunt for titles very soon.

There are some differences there, his kids were in Catholic grade school and just continued on through Catholic school and was just at Fern Creek program due to his past as well as availability. I think really the only ones that people question are those kids that aren't in Catholic School up until High School and then start going. As far as out of county kids there are no Catholic schools in surrounding counties to Jefferson that they would be able to attend and continue wrestling.

Pinthis I will agree with you on that,and if I was a high school coach it would make me a little mad too.Just look at all the middle school state champs that wrestled in the fern creek youth program that went to trinity or x.Just off the top of my head I know of 6.So they are leaveing these public schools for what they think will help their kids more than just wrestling.Hitchings for example says it all,his kids go through the fern creek youth program and he sends them to Trinity,even though he went to fern creek and is now the head coach.I do think Hiichings and Branch will have fern creek back in the hunt for titles very soon.

pinthis: I think you are slightly mistaken. Any school can take a kid from another county as long as it is they do it their freshman year. I know of 2 that wrestled on my team in the 80s because they lived in a county school district that didn't have wrestling. They came to my school their freshman year and graduated from there.

Every parent has the same opportunity to send their kid to any high school they want their freshman year. There are some hoops you have to jump through but they are not that difficult.

As for the kids that did not attend grade school and middle school catholic schools but then attend a catholic high school. This happens all the time. Usually because of cost. A family will save so their child can attend 4 years of high school at a catholic school but could not afford it in middle or gradeschool. I see nothing wrong with this. (And remember this is from an Agnostic that prefers public schools).

GOO - JCPS does not officially allow kids from outside J.C. to attend public schools inside the county. That's why people get creative with addresses (grandparents, for example) and such outside the county if they want to attend a public school inside J.C.. The Catholic schools gain a huge advantage in this area.

And I agree it's not a problem if a kid opts to go to a private high school after attending public elementary and middle schools within J.C.. That has always been an option and should continue to be one.

You eluded to the fact that many kids that wrestled in the Fern Creek system ended up at private schools. Again, that's their druthers. But what is a problem is that kids in the JCPS system can go to almost any high school they choose, including other public schools. All someone needs to do is look at the Dixie Hwy. area and how much PRP has grown while schools in the area such as Doss, Valley, and Western have shrunk in overall student body numbers. Same with Waggener, Moore, Iroquois, etc.

It's within the rules, but should the rules be changed? I understand Coach K's sentiment about the lack of Catholic high schools outside J.C., but should those kids be able to compete in sports when they can't at a public school? I think Manual, Male, Ballard, and some others could make a case for getting out of county kids. There are no traditional programs or magnet career academies outside of J.C. either, or none that I know of.

Pinthis: JCPS have put these restrictions on themselves. So JCPS has put themselves in a disadvantage. If you want it changed then you need to get the right people on the JCPS school board who will change this decision.

As I stated KHSAA has some hoops that you have to jump through but the hoops are low to the ground and big enough to drive a truck through. Complaining about JCPS not able to get kids outside their county is like a vegetarian complaining about not being able to eat meat.

As I mentioned before, in Nky it has been happening for many decades now. Not in wrestling much but in other sports mostly football at Beechwood and Highlands. Kids attend other gradeschools and middle schools then end up at one of these two places for football their freshman year. Both of these are public schools, Covington Catholec and Newport Catholic have also drawn people in the past. Its the nature of the beast.

We are a country with the right of choice. If we force our kids by law to attend school how can we tell them what school they must attend?

Who cares what school a kid attends for wrestling? No matter what school he attends you still have to beat him to win. I've mentioned it in the past, the one thing I enjoy most about wrestling is that it is an individual sport. Some try to make it a team sport but it is an individual sport, that is what makes it so great. Do away with the team champion in wrestling and no one will be complaining about what school the kid attends.

Jefferson County is not the only county that requires public school kids to live in that county. Just recently there was a story on the news about Oldham County cracking down and prosecuting parents of children going to Oldham County schools who did not live there.

Do away with the team champion in wrestling and no one will be complaining about what school the kid attends.

There will be no team champion at youth state next year.

There is a difference between a parent lying about where they live to attend a school and a parent asking for permission and gaining permission to attend that school.

As long as KHSAA is notified of the situation and all the paperwork is filed then there is not problem. We already know that KHSAA is lenient about school transfers by their recent actions.

Oldham County school system and the KHSAA are two different entities, under no circumstance I know of would Oldham County allow a student to attend one of their schools without living there, so of course they had to lie to get them in.

I'll take your word for it MC. However I bet if one of their teachers that don't live in the county wanted to send their kid to an Oldham Co. school they would allow it.

The arguement however is that Oldham and Jefferson Co. have put restrictions on thermselves and some are complaining about those restrictions.

I'll take your word for it MC. However I bet if one of their teachers that don't live in the county wanted to send their kid to an Oldham Co. school they would allow it.

The arguement however is that Oldham and Jefferson Co. have put restrictions on thermselves and some are complaining about those restrictions.

Well duh, what school system wouldn't.

Oldham County school system and the KHSAA are two different entities, under no circumstance I know of would Oldham County allow a student to attend one of their schools without living there, so of course they had to lie to get them in.

According to MC Oldham Co. would not allow it.

According to MC Oldham Co. would not allow it.

I'll take your word for it MC. However I bet if one of their teachers that don't live in the county wanted to send their kid to an Oldham Co. school they would allow it.

The arguement however is that Oldham and Jefferson Co. have put restrictions on thermselves and some are complaining about those restrictions.

I'm sure they are not MC. But if you want things changed people have to stand up and make those changes and do what it takes to get them changed.

My point is that Catholic schools don't have a huge advantage about getting talent at their school. It may be easier for them to admit those students into their school. But public schools have the same oportunity as private in getting talent in their schools.

Choosing where your kids will spend their last four years in school prior to college is a big decision for anyone. I know my family had to decide where my kids would go to school. (Either at the school I teach or the school district they live in) We descussed this for 3 years before they started high school. In the end I think we made the right decision for everyone. As long as the rules are followed to the "T" I have no problem with kids starting high school in a district they don't live in. What we need to be carefull of is the bending of the rules. Up here in Nky we see the rules being bent all the time in football but not much in anything else.

Non-residents of Oldham County can attend Oldham County schools as long as there is sufficient space in the school and you pay the non-resident tuition. The crackdown happened because folks were falsifying their address to avoid paying the money.

Non-residents of Oldham County can attend Oldham County schools as long as there is sufficient space in the school and you pay the non-resident tuition. The crackdown happened because folks were falsifying their address to avoid paying the money.

Who cares what school a kid attends for wrestling? No matter what school he attends you still have to beat him to win. I've mentioned it in the past, the one thing I enjoy most about wrestling is that it is an individual sport. Some try to make it a team sport but it is an individual sport, that is what makes it so great. Do away with the team champion in wrestling and no one will be complaining about what school the kid attends.

I like the idea of doing away with team championship. There would not be recruiting, which we all know does happen and choose not to talk about. Whether the wrestler starts their high school career as a freshman somewhere, KHSAA has set a precedence where a wrestler can transfer to another school and participate at the Varsity level that same here. Yes there are rules, but all rules have loop holes.

Good luck to all the wrestlers in the upcoming year. Some that have graduated will be missed, some that are coming from middle school will be a pleasure to watch.

GOO and YNSS - Really? Do away with team championships in HS Wrestling? C'mon man. That's pushing it a little far. Going back to the beginning of Olympic times we had teams or countries that win titles. I could see it in youth, but in HS....No Way!!!

We would not do away with the team champion. That would be decided where it should be decided at the State Duals.

If you want to try and make wrestling a team sport then allow the entire team to compete for the championship. At the "State tourney" you usually don't have the entire team competing for the school, only those who qualified. At the state duals you have the entire team there and allows for team building and sacrifice if needed.

Everyone wants to keep the team champion because it builds team chemistry and team skills. How better to get those when wrestlers have to make sacrifices like allowing someone else to wrestle in your spot. Or trying to loose without giving up many team points. That is team building and team skills. Not just rooting your teamate on when he is trying to get his individual state championship or placement.

I think GOO has a good point about the importance of determining the team championship at the team duals. If the sport focuses on the developement of more teams and more complete teams the entire sport grows.

The team aspect of wrestling has kind of been lost through the years. The team aspect encourages all the wrestlers to bond in a selfless common effort to get better for the team. In the often referred to major states very few of the total wrestlers make it to state. Only a small percentage make it to any post season wrestling beyond the first round, (districts, sectionals, etc..) Most kids dont realistically expect to make it deep in their state tourney, so the team is more important. Lots of teams live for dual matches against cross town rivals or neighboring counties. It isnt about one or two kids its about the entire team and who has bragging rights after the match. Unfortunately at least one neighboring state, Indiana has decided to end their Duals State Championship. I think it hurts the sport by minimizing the importance of the team. All successful wrestlers will tell you they benefitted from the support of a good team, practice partners, coaches, asst coaches, parents, alumni, dual matches.

In KY about 20-25% of the wrestlers advance to the state tournament. It seems like everything is geared toward getting kids ready for the state tournament. I'm not sure thats the best way to grow the sport. I always thought all the teams within a region should wrestle each other at least once before team duals to determine who earns the berth to state duals as region dual champ and runnerup. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like some teams never even wrestle other teams within their region.

Fireplug; You are correct. Other sports have been going through this for a while now. Here in Nky we have two football programs that seem to draw kids from other districts. Highlands and Beechwood which are not private schools. I'm not saying they recruited. I'm saying that kids start their freshman year at these schools after attending middle schools in other districts. Once again not a problem for me, make the decision you think is best for your kid his freshman year and attend that school.

Adding to this post: Athletes, regardless of sport, can attend whichever middle school they choose. They have not established what's called residency at a high school until their freshman year, so they are more or less free to go where they want.