Whats your thoughts on the improvement of wrestling in Kentucky?  I believe in the past few years Kentucky has made a great leap to improve our beloved sport.  The youth level programs that have been started will really pay off in the coming years.  I see a bright future ahead for the State. :-D

yeah it has improved alto i think there are alot of guys that could compete at national tournaments and stuff like

sullivan

courtney

cooper

wolsifer

lewis

alot ofguys thats just a few i think in 5 more years kentucky wrestling will be as good as any others

Kentucky has made huge strides towards becoming a better state at high school wrestling.  We still have a long way to go if we want to be a national powerhouse like Pennsylvania or Ohio, but in the last 5 years we have closed the gap between states like Tennessee and Indiana a considerable amount.  We haven't really seen the effect of getting our youth programs going because they've only started in the last couple of years.  But once these kids are in high school Kentucky will definitely not be considered a weak state when it comes to wrestling.  Like I said were still not where we could be but we've made monumental strides in the last 5 years and all people affiliated with high school wrestling in Kentucky should be very proud.

I think the first thing that has to change is the rule about not being able to coach your high school wrestlers year around.  All the toughest teams and states in the US wrestle year around.  I do not agree with forcing kids to wrestle year around, but I believe it is a big mistake to not offer it year around.  Just my thoughts though.

I think the first thing that has to change is the rule about not being able to coach your high school wrestlers year around.  All the toughest teams and states in the US wrestle year around.  I do not agree with forcing kids to wrestle year around, but I believe it is a big mistake to not offer it year around.  Just my thoughts though.

You're 100% right about this rule.  It puts our state in a pretty serious disadvantage.  Some coach told me once that this rule was mostly created for other sports such as basketball....but they applied across the state.  I'm not sure why they made it for basketball...the khsaa may have a good reason for that....but I think that wrestling is just a way more technical sport than most others, and to compete at a national level...it just takes a lot of time, practice, and COACHING to get to that level.  Summer wrestling has not been very big in this state, but i think it's improving.

I agree the rule is stupid, but some coaches abused policies and probably made things mandatory when they legally had no right to force kids to participate or get cut. 

Their are many coaches that would abuse kids, look now how regulated conditioning and practicing etc are.  Not ALL Coaches do stupid things; but the ones that have make it tough for the honest ones.

Kids that want to wrestle have options and clubs to participate.  Yes, the head coach can't run it; but many of the same parent coaches do and its great for the programs.  Wayne County is heavy in summer wrestling not all of them but the ones that are worth mentioning all wrestled, NO-OX in Hardin County had allot of local school participate, Louisville, Lexington area kids, Union and others; sorry if I didn't mention your program.  But we are getting BETTER. Thank you

Heck we had a "GREAT PROBLEM" this summer we had to many tournament.  The problems was coordination of weekends.  We hurt our programs when we booked events the same day (some events were cancelled) and other area tournaments.  We are going in the right directions just continue to support KY wrestling and not worry about personal validation.

Kids that want to wrestle have options and clubs to participate.  Yes, the head coach can't run it; but many of the same parent coaches do and its great for the programs. 

Not 100% true.  Some areas and teams have no-one to take the summer team except the high school coach.  If they are not able to run the practice then no-one will. 

I don't want to start a discussion about that.  My point is if the head coach is able to coach.  Schools will open their doors to allow practice in their buildings and more areas/teams will be able to have open gyms at their school.

your right on, Grappler, Many Summer programs have to pay for the Gym to have a tournament. With the Head Coach involved, This will not happen because it involves High School. This was one of the reasons the Dan Gable Series was so spread out. (Finding a gym) I think though, the more we start (asking) for the gym during the summer months, instead of Basketball using it all summer. It will start to become easier. Most of us have never asked for the gym in off season. Any good AD will see they need to start to share and make time available.

I agree the rule is stupid, but some coaches abused policies and probably made things mandatory when they legally had no right to force kids to participate or get cut.

I still don't feel that's a good reason for this rule.  99% of the time, the coach knows what's best for the kid.  If a coach wants to build a successful program and he wants to make some things in the off season mandatory such as weight lifting, camps, tournaments, or a summer program...i say more power to him.  Kids that are dedicated and serious about their sport will not complain if it's legal or not.  They'll be there with a smile on their face.  I don't see the 15-20 kids from Wayne County that drive all over during the summer complaining about their mandatory tourneys.  (not sure if they are mandatory or not, just using them as an example...i assume they are since they have such good attendance). 

Also, making things mandatory is the norm in other sports in successful programs.  At my son's school, cheerleaders are required to go to off season gymnastics....at about $500....if you don't do it, you will NOT be even considered for a varsity spot.  I don't think wrestling should be any different.  I say kudos to the coaches who draw a line in the dirt and hold their ground on making things mandatory in the summer.

Not trying to attack you Dawg, i just feel like making laws that keeps a coach from doing good things for their team & sport is not a good idea.

There is one thing that our sport has, that no other sport has that makes a difference with off season wrestling. Wrestling coaches don't have the same leverage as other sports. [glow=red,2,300]WE DON"T CUT PEOPLE[/glow]. Other sports have this leverage. True, if you are dedicated to the sport, you will participate. There is no true consequence for missing. except you fall behind in training and experience. Of course the coach will use this against him at the beginning of the season, but are you going to cut him from the team for lack of summer participation?

Posted by: pioneer_pride

Not trying to attack you Dawg, i just feel like making laws that keeps a coach from doing good things for their team & sport is not a good idea.

Pioneer-pride, Not offended, I disagree with the rule, as you do.

I was just stating my understanding as to why they have the rule, not that I agree with it.  We have many great coaches that practice what they preach and the results show in the program history.

There is one thing that our sport has, that no other sport has, that makes a different with off season wrestling. Wrestling coaches don't have the same leverage as other sports. [glow=red,2,300]WE DON"T CUT PEOPLE[/glow]. Other sports have this leverage. True, if you are dedicated to the sport, you will participate. There is no true consequence for missing. except you fall behind in training and experience. Of course the coach will use this against him at the beginning of the season, but are you going to cut him from the team for lack of summer participation?

We don't cut people because most programs don't have the luxury of being choosy.  I believe that's going to change soon (next 5-10 years).  With all the middle school & youth wrestling going on, i think programs will become deeper and be able to boot a kid off for whatever reason and replace them with a decent experienced...younger...wrestler.  It will be a culture shift for sure, but at some point varsity coaches will wake up and realize they don't have to kiss a bunch of kids' (_*_)....or compromise their morals for a kid who skips 1-2 days of pracitce per week.  Ok, i'll get off my soapbox now.

Also, making things mandatory is the norm in other sports in successful programs.  At my son's school, cheerleaders are required to go to off season gymnastics....at about $500....if you don't do it, you will NOT be even considered for a varsity spot.  I don't think wrestling should be any different.  I say kudos to the coaches who draw a line in the dirt and hold their ground on making things mandatory in the summer.

I'm not sure how your sons school can get away with this.  (I hear discrimination in that tactic).  

Think about this pioneer.  The reason Boone Co. does not have a wrestling team is because of thier old football coach.  He made it manditory that his football players lift wieghts in the off season.  If any of them wrestled they would NOT make the football squad or if they did, get playing time.  

$$$ and time is the issue here.  Many high school kids play several different sports.  If they were forced to participate in all of these in the off season they would be forced to become a 1 sport kid.  

IMO any high school coach that forces a kid to decide which sport to participate in, is doing an injustice to the kids on his/her team.  

Opportunity however is another thing all together.  If head coaches were able to hold optional practices in the off season this could help his/her program.  Those kids who have made their own choice to:  1.  Dedicate all thier time to one sport and 2. Committed themselves to become a better player in thier sport.  (I'm not just talking about wrestling, but all sports)

We have many great coaches that practice what they preach and the results show in the program history.

Exactly...great point...i think a coach has to have his standards....stick to them and the program takes care of itself.  I doubt Woodford and Larue have much of a problem with dedication.  If they made something mandatory in the summer....i BELIEVE the kids would be there, i'm not 100% sure....they may have just as much trouble...idk.  But I think those kids can be pushed a lot more because their programs are so successful....the coaches know these kids want to be a part of that great tradition.

coaches will wake up and realize they don't have to kiss a bunch of kids' (_*_)....or compromise their morals for a kid who skips 1-2 days of pracitce per week.

I'd rather have a hole in the line-up than put up with a kid with an attitude or a kid that doesn't want to be there...put 'em on the street, that's what I say.  Coaches don't need to be baby sitters.  I have seen some of that in the Middle school programs.

I'm not sure how your sons school can get away with this.  (I hear discrimination in that tactic).  

Believe me, a lot of parents agree with you on this....yet it goes on.  I for one would be ticked if i had a daughter doing cheerleading...but that's how it is.  Why do they get away with this?  Because they can.  It might have something to do with cheerleading not being considered a "sport".  Idk...but they have been doing this for years.

Think about this pioneer.  The reason Boone Co. does not have a wrestling team is because of thier old football coach.  He made it manditory that his football players lift wieghts in the off season.  If any of them wrestled they would NOT make the football squad or if they did, get playing time.  

That's a very different story than what i heard...in fact, it was in the paper that Boone County's program was dropped due to Title IX issues.  The football coach most likely contributed to the problem, but the final decision to drop their program was Title IX...at least that's what I read and was told.  (correct me if i'm wrong on that...maybe you have some more insight).

$$$ and time is the issue here.  Many high school kids play several different sports.  If they were forced to participate in all of these in the off season they would be forced to become a 1 sport kid.  

IMO any high school coach that forces a kid to decide which sport to participate in, is doing an injustice to the kids on his/her team.  

I agree with you here, in the cases I was mentioning above about programs that have mandatory weight lifting programs....most of the kids are excused if they are playing another sport such as baseball.  I'm not saying coaches should be unreasonable....if there are legitimate reasons a kid can't be at weight lifting or summer wrestling...then fine.  That's up to the coach....but a kid that's not involved in another sport...and doesn't have a circumstance where he has to work because the family's poor.  I just don't see the harm in a coach requiring that kid to be at weight lifting or spring wrestling practice or whatever.

I'd rather have a hole in the line-up than put up with a kid with an attitude or a kid that doesn't want to be there...put 'em on the street, that's what I say.  Coaches don't need to be baby sitters.  I have seen some of that in the Middle school programs.

LOL...thank God someone on my side chimmed in!  ;-)  I guess it all depends on your coaching situation....if you're BUILDING a program....and trying to keep your numbers up....you might have to be a little looser than you'd like....and try to get kids interested in it....but eventually when you get a group of core fairly dedicated kids, you have to choose your battles and cut those kids that aren't dedicated.  It may sting at first, but I think it will be better for your program in the long run.

We don't cut people because most programs don't have the luxury of being choosy.  I believe that's going to change soon (next 5-10 years).  With all the middle school & youth wrestling going on, i think programs will become deeper and be able to boot a kid off for whatever reason and replace them with a decent experienced...younger...wrestler.  It will be a culture shift for sure, but at some point varsity coaches will wake up and realize they don't have to kiss a bunch of kids' (_*_)....or compromise their morals for a kid who skips 1-2 days of practice per week.  OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

I surely hope that no coach kisses there kid's ***. Off  season is something that is tolerated. In-season is another issue. I have forfeited many a weight classes due to attitude. Grades and attitude will get you pine time.

I'd rather have a hole in the line-up than put up with a kid with an attitude or a kid that doesn't want to be there...put 'em on the street, that's what I say.  Coaches don't need to be baby sitters.  I have seen some of that in the Middle school programs.

Sports in schools are there to try and keep the kids of the streets.  

I know of quit a few kids that were successfull on successfull teams that would not have had the opportunity if the coach had taken this attitude.

Sports in schools are there to try and keep the kids of the streets.  

I know of quit a few kids that were successfull on successfull teams that would not have had the opportunity if the coach had taken this attitude.

Sorry to bring this example up....but it's so relevant and in the news today....look at Maurice "can't nobody fade me" Clarett.  I would guess his coaches & teachers turned the other cheek on this kid from the 6th grade on.  Not wanting to turn him out to the meanstreets of Youngstown.  Of course I don't know his whole upbringing...but I think this is perfect example of a kid that is raised with soft rules.  I'm not sure about when he was in h.s., but i remember reading that before their fiesta bowl game, Clarett had academic issues.  Something about a tutor who was taking tests for him or something...and teachers that were giving passing grades when they weren't earned.  Perhaps if he had paid the price then.....right then.....he wouldn't be running from the law man this morning with a bullet proof vest and 4 loaded gats in his SUV.  lol....sorry, i had to bring this one up.  Hate the Luckeyes.  Like i said earlier on....you have to be reasonable...but you have to have your standards.  If a program has a mandatory anything in the off season, i say stick it to the kids.  The strong will survive.

Sorry to bring this example up....but it's so relevant and in the news today....look at Maurice "can't nobody fade me" Clarett.  I would guess his coaches & teachers turned the other cheek on this kid from the 6th grade on.  Not wanting to turn him out to the meanstreets of Youngstown.  Of course I don't know his whole upbringing...but I think this is perfect example of a kid that is raised with soft rules.  I'm not sure about when he was in h.s., but i remember reading that before their fiesta bowl game, Clarett had academic issues.  Something about a tutor who was taking tests for him or something...and teachers that were giving passing grades when they weren't earned.  Perhaps if he had paid the price then.....right then.....he wouldn't be running from the law man this morning with a bullet proof vest and 4 loaded gats in his SUV.  lol....sorry, i had to bring this one up.  Hate the Luckeyes.  Like i said earlier on....you have to be reasonable...but you have to have your standards.  If a program has a mandatory anything in the off season, i say stick it to the kids.  The strong will survive.

Guessing you're a Michigan fan  :roll:

nah....a Miami fan.  :-(  and anyone who's playing OSU.  :-)

Is this the rule regarding coaches in the off season that restricts HS Coaches from Coaching during the summer?

Bylaw 25. Limitation of Seasons

(6) Involvement of Members of the Coaching Staff Out

of Season

Members of the high school coaching staff (paid or

unpaid) shall not be prohibited from sport specific

observation and evaluation (but not coaching) of any

player who has played for a grade nine (9) through

grade twelve (12) team (freshman, junior varsity,

varsity) from the first day of school through the last

day of school provided such play is under the direct

control of the same local board of education as the

coach is employed and provided such play is not in

conflict with other KHSAA bylaws.

I would like to completely understand the rule on High School Coaches coaching during the off season, what is allowed and what is not allowed.

DEAD PERIOD:

I think I understand the dead period. That seems clear that there is no contact for the two week period.

But what about outside of the dead period?

Are HS Coaches allowed to coach at all out side of the school year?

If their own children are playing on the team does that allow them to coach?

I am sure that HS Coaches are coaching travel teams in other sports?

Who is the authority on this issue for Kentucky High School Athletics?

MANDATORY PROGRAMS?

I know of no hs programs that make any activity outside of the schools season truly MANDATORY. It may be suggested by a coach that a child work hard and play here or there during the off season but never have I heard it was contingent on the child being able to participate the next season. My daughter cheered at a HS considered very elite competitively and even the dreaded summer cheerleading practices while considered mandatory were not attended by all participants. Yes the girls were strongly encouraged to attend but for various reasons some could not. If they could still keep their skills up they were not penalized. Now some girls did drop out for failure to keep up skills and be the best for the competitive team. But this sport of cheerleading clearly explained before tryouts what was expected beforehand.

So we are gonna punish the kids because there are a few bad coaches?  That sounds unacceptable and also out of line of the educational goals of the schools we are involved with.

What do you do with a school that hasnt had a team and they get someone at their school who wants to coach?  Kentucky forces them to either bend over backwards to find someone else who has a clue and then has to at least be trained on what they high school coach wants them to be taught or put the kids under the supervision of someone who doesnt have a clue.  That is irresponsible.  The schools themselves tell kids they have to go to summer school and do school year around.  Basketball is a bad example to compare wrestling to.  You can play basketball and improve without the use of a supervising coach.  Wrestling, you have to have a mat and the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing.  THIS HAS TO BE THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT THE KENTUCKY COACHES ASSOCIATION SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR.  IF NOT, THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE COACHES OR WHATS BEST FOR THE KIDS IN KENTUCKY.

I agree that there needs to be opportunity for wrestlers to wrestle in the off season.  Wrestlers also need to be able to improve themselves in the offseason.  The best person to do this is usually the coach of the high school team. 

In my opinion however many coaches go overboard with the MANDATORY bit.  Football and basketball coaches especially. (At least in my opinion.)

I see a lot of middle and gradeschool wrestling coaches doing the same thing.  (most if not all of this was seen in Ohio). 

Its a fine line coaches walk.  They must remember that they are there for the kids and not themselves.  They are there for ALL the kids not just the ones with talent or dedication. 

It may take 3-4 years to finally get through to an athlete about dedication and commitment.  But in the end it will all be worth wild.  If you have or had a kid that was not committed to anything and you foster that non commitment by kicking him off the team, he will continue on that same road through life.  If you get through to him his senior year, he may not win state, he may not qualify for state, he may not even make the varsity team, but he has learned commitment and dedication that will help him through his entire life.  Not just his high school career. 

These are kids not adults.  They should always be given a chance or several of them.  Yes pioneer some never do pan out, but the one or two that do. Make it all worth wild. :-D

Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

Members of the high school coaching staff (paid or

unpaid) shall not be prohibited from sport specific

observation and evaluation (but not coaching) of any

player who has played for a grade nine (9) through

grade twelve (12) team (freshman, junior varsity,

varsity)

It does not say we cannot be there, we just cannot "coach" When I'm with my team in the summer, I am just observing and evaluating. Julian Tacket understands our situation more then people give him credit for. Has anyone (Coach) in wrestling ever been identified with this violation? Most Coaches in the wrestling community understand what needs to be done to continue with our training. We are doing no less then any other sport to stay competitive.

you guys all have good points.  TeamJesus, that's a great point i'd love to see the coaches association taking up that fight.  That would be great.  I think the way Ohio and other states get by with this is in the off season they wrestle greco and freestyle.  In Ohio this is considered a different sport, in Kentucky (according to the KHSAA) this is not.  This is VERY poor judgement if you ask me.

Anyhow, Eville Dad (that's still the best name on here if you ask me :-)).  I think the rule that prohibits h.s. coaches from coaching in the off season is basically that all sports have a designated window for their season.  Such as practices can not start before 10/15 (or whatever it is)....and they must conclude after the h.s. state tourney.  now i think other sports get away with this by having AAU teams in the off season and coaches who are not affiliated with the school coach.  so if your son wants to go compete outside of the normal season, as long as his h.s. coach or someone affiliated with the program is not coaching him...AND he's not wearing a school uniform, he's fine.  but if he was to wear a school uniform...and go wrestle at the Ohio T of C for example, it may muck up his eligibility.  I would hope no one would ever snitch...but i'm sure there's people out there.  By the rules, your h.s. coach can't coach you in the off season.

If there's a h.s. coach on here that may know otherwise, please correct me if i'm wrong...but that's how it was explained to me.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

Members of the high school coaching staff (paid or

unpaid) shall not be prohibited from sport specific

observation and evaluation (but not coaching) of any

player who has played for a grade nine (9) through

grade twelve (12) team (freshman, junior varsity,

varsity)

It does not say we cannot be there, we just cannot "coach" When I'm with my team in the summer, I am just observing and evaluating. Julian Tacket understands our situation more then people give him credit for. Has anyone (Coach) in wrestling ever been identified with this violation? Most Coaches in the wrestling community understand what needs to be done to continue with our training. We are doing no less then any other sport to stay competitive.

I was going to say....who's going to snitch?  ;-)  idk...there might be someone out there...but i know if i seen a h.s. coach coaching in the off season, i would say good for him.  I think technically you could get in trouble....just like you could get busted for going 56 in a 55mph zone.

Very True, But people have to remember that it is for the kids. It may help the coaches team but it is for the kids.

i saw where you said about kds missing practice at our school its not ollerated much now that justin bozeman can run things his way with out principales and stuff gettin involved we can only miss practice if its an emergency and we have to make up the running and lifting cause there no need to miss full practices

The reason I am so interested in getting high school coaches available to coach and help during the off season is because I think their involvement is critical to getting some of the kids to wrestle beyond the high school season. The quality of wrestling in the state is improving but off season wrestling is the next logical step to improving the state overall. The middle school programs are finally getting a good number of kids to the high school ranks with some decent experience, now it is time for sport to develop beyond the school seasons.

If High School Coaches were allowed to get involved with their USAW or AAU programs I think they would have a lot more kids wanting to wrestle during the off season. Getting involved doesn't mean they have to run every aspect of a club. They could work with someone designated as the club coach and help coach and administer the duties of running a club, helping to make sure the environment is safe and the instruction is good and correct. Their involvement would carry a lot of weight with the kids and whether or not they want to participate.

But the rules need to be clear as to what coaches are allowed to do, they shouldn't have to worry about anyone snitching on them because the rules aren't clear or because they have been able to get away with something in the past, unwritten agreements and people looking the other way will only lead to problems or lack of involvement in the long run.

Most states develop clubs and allow all kids regardless of school affiliations to belong to the club. This could offer great opportunities to kids throughout the state. Club wrestling in the off season is a lot less pressure for the kids and the coaches. Club programs enable kids to try new styles and learn new moves without being overly concerned about their won-loss record and weight issues. USAW and AAU both offer Folk, Free, Greco, and some Sombo and Beach competitions and all styles can help a high school wrestler for the most important part of their career which is during the high school season.

With the emergence of UFC and other extreme styles of wrestling, fighting etc... its probably a good idea to try to increase the number of organized and supervised opportunities for kids to avoid unsupervised and less than safe conditions that occur when kids start working out on their own and trying new styles or things they have seen on TV.

Well said Eville.

Is this the rule regarding coaches in the off season that restricts HS Coaches from Coaching during the summer?

Bylaw 25. Limitation of Seasons

(6) Involvement of Members of the Coaching Staff Out

of Season

Members of the high school coaching staff (paid or

unpaid) shall not be prohibited from sport specific

observation and evaluation (but not coaching) of any

player who has played for a grade nine (9) through

grade twelve (12) team (freshman, junior varsity,

varsity) from the first day of school through the last

day of school provided such play is under the direct

control of the same local board of education as the

coach is employed and provided such play is not in

conflict with other KHSAA bylaws.

I would like to completely understand the rule on High School Coaches coaching during the off season, what is allowed and what is not allowed.

DEAD PERIOD:

I think I understand the dead period. That seems clear that there is no contact for the two week period.

But what about outside of the dead period?

Are HS Coaches allowed to coach at all out side of the school year? Yes, as long as it's not there kids

If their own children are playing on the team does that allow them to coach? Yes, I had that issue for my son, but I legally couldn't coach any of the 9-12th graders from our team, other teams was fine.

I am sure that HS Coaches are coaching travel teams in other sports?

Who is the authority on this issue for Kentucky High School Athletics?

MANDATORY PROGRAMS?

I know of no hs programs that make any activity outside of the schools season truly MANDATORY. It may be suggested by a coach that a child work hard and play here or there during the off season but never have I heard it was contingent on the child being able to participate the next season.

Don't hold your breath, I know for a fact of several football coaches that threaten our football/wrestlers about playing time, I went to the Principal and he said he would look into it. He was a temporary principal and stated he probably couldn't do much.  The football coach is the AD, we will see what happens this season with our younger kids in the transition. 

My daughter cheered at a HS considered very elite competitively and even the dreaded summer cheerleading practices while considered mandatory were not attended by all participants.  The wrestling in the summer was find but you couldn't substitute wrestling instead of football weighting spring practice, if you didn't have 100% into all aspects of football your playing time would be scaled "QUOTE" my nephew and several other freshman were told that.

Yes the girls were strongly encouraged to attend but for various reasons some could not. If they could still keep their skills up they were not penalized. Now some girls did drop out for failure to keep up skills and be the best for the competitive team. But this sport of cheerleading clearly explained before tryouts what was expected beforehand.

Dawg;

Just those type of things is what the rule is trying to avoid, by not allowing mandatory practices in the off-season. 

Like it or not this happens more often than people want to admit.

Who was/would be hurt most by allowing coaches to have mandatory practices in the off-season? 

It hurts the minor sports such as wrestling.  The rule has probably helped wrestling more than we know. 

As I've said in another post.  Many football coaches go overboard.  2-A-days, 3-A-days.  This seems ridiculus to me.  If no-one is doing it then its fair.  Imagine if these same coaches were able to make mandatory practices all year.  Many would do just that, and IMO wrestling would loose many participant.

Once again however I think that h.s. coaches should be allowed to coach in the off-season, just not make it mandatory.  This would have to be monitored and dealt with, if a violation occurs. 

But as we already know the KHSAA has trouble with monitoring, otherwise we would not have had the private/public school issue in football.

Dawg,

Sounds like a problem that needs correcting. Those are usually the coaches that want to win at all cost and threaten about holding kids back but when it comes down to putting kids on the field, they play the best regardless of their committment. All their ranting and raving about conditioning for football goes out the window when it actually comes time to try to win a football game.

I have heard of baseball programs around Louisville that demand exclusivity to their sport. But I doubt that if one of their stars wanted to play another sport that they would keep them off the team. Its a shame that coaches use their authority in such a restricting way. If they were coaching an elite travel team I could understand it but these are public high schools where that shouldnt happen.

you guys all have good points, and i can see that wrestling would probably end up on the short end of the stick on this to football and stuff.  good coaches (football, bball or whatever) shouldn't keep a kid or hold it against a kid if they play other sports.  my h.s. football coach would have loved it if we all did nothing but football but he accepted it.  he also knew he'd be in hot water if he had ever benched a kid specifically because he played another sport. 

however, i think there's nothing wrong with a coach making a camp/tournament/conditioning program mandatory to kids not in other sports, or kids without a good excuse.  sorry, that's just the way i see it.  i also think the more successful programs in the nation probably have mandatory off season stuff of some sort.  Graham, St. Eds, Blair Academy, etc....i would guess they have mandatory camps and tournaments for all varsity wrestlers.  perhaps they are "unwritten" mandatory stuff.  what do they do if you skip it?  i'm not sure...but as long as it's known in advance what the consequences are....no matter how severe, i think it's fine.  and before everyone blasts me and says "those programs are different...they're on another level....we don't have programs like that here".  1) we have football & probably basketball programs like that in this state....believe me.  2) aren't we trying to be like those programs?  don't we want to have a national powerhouse program out of this state?  i do.  i'd love to see 5-10 years from now that a team from Kentucky is in the top 5.  (unless it's woodford county ;-))  no seriously, even them.  i'd love to see it.  you can't get to that level with kids that aren't committed...with coaches and parents that make it ok and acceptable to skip camps/tournaments or whatever so they can sit at home and play super nintendo.

i know all this is easier said then done, i have a hard enough time getting my own kid to stay committed let alone kids in our program.  but in a perfect world, i'd have no problems with a coach making a camp or something mandatory.

What we 1st need to make mandatory is a

wrestling coaches annual meeting

I don't mean this rules interpretation meeting.

I mean a meeting by the coaches assosication.  Years ago we had a coaches symposiom.  They had a few people come and talk to the coaches.  I believe one year they had Doug Bluebaul (sp).

If we did this we could have a meeting where we discuss what we want accomplished or what we would like changed.

The meeting they have at the state tourney does not get much accomplished becuase the coaches are more concerned about the tourney.

Grappler, you are so right. We really need to have this kind of coaches meeting to simulate information out. This could also be used for mini presentations (Speakers) of different wrestling subjects for coaching needs. There is so much we could accomplish if we could meet as a group. We really need to get KWCA and its members to pick up the pace. We need active leadership within the organization that will make it happen. Coaches need to be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem as far as not getting involved.

"Kentucky Coaches Wrestling Association Convention" now wouldn't that be nice?

Dawg,

Sounds like a problem that needs correcting. Those are usually the coaches that want to win at all cost and threaten about holding kids back but when it comes down to putting kids on the field, they play the best regardless of their committment. All their ranting and raving about conditioning for football goes out the window when it actually comes time to try to win a football game.

I did and when it was discussed it had negitive impact on the wrestling coach and resource available, unanounced changes, and our coach only has a couple years in the school so he doesn't want to get fired.  We have a new principal so hopefully it will get better, or I'll be addressing it with the school board.

I have heard of baseball programs around Louisville that demand exclusivity to their sport. But I doubt that if one of their stars wanted to play another sport that they would keep them off the team. Its a shame that coaches use their authority in such a restricting way. If they were coaching an elite travel team I could understand it but these are public high schools where that shouldnt happen.

Again, correect the blue chip players also play basketball or baseball.  But it goes back to irgorance of our sport and failure to want to understand how we can help each other.

you guys all have good points, and i can see that wrestling would probably end up on the short end of the stick on this to football and stuff.  good coaches (football, bball or whatever) shouldn't keep a kid or hold it against a kid if they play other sports.  my h.s. football coach would have loved it if we all did nothing but football but he accepted it.  he also knew he'd be in hot water if he had ever benched a kid specifically because he played another sport. 

however, i think there's nothing wrong with a coach making a camp/tournament/conditioning program mandatory to kids not in other sports, or kids without a good excuse.  sorry, that's just the way i see it. 

I don't think anyone on this topic would disagree.

i also think the more successful programs in the nation probably have mandatory off season stuff of some sort.  Graham, St. Eds, Blair Academy, etc....i would guess they have mandatory camps and tournaments for all varsity wrestlers.  perhaps they are "unwritten" mandatory stuff. 

No those kids just want to be the best and they have plenty to choose form :wink:

what do they do if you skip it?  i'm not sure...but as long as it's known in advance what the consequences are....no matter how severe, i think it's fine.  and before everyone blasts me and says "those programs are different...they're on another level....we don't have programs like that here".  1) we have football & probably basketball programs like that in this state....believe me.  2) aren't we trying to be like those programs?  don't we want to have a national powerhouse program out of this state?  i do.  i'd love to see 5-10 years from now that a team from Kentucky is in the top 5.  (unless it's woodford county ;-))  no seriously, even them.  i'd love to see it.  you can't get to that level with kids that aren't committed...with coaches and parents that make it ok and acceptable to skip camps/tournaments or whatever so they can sit at home and play super nintendo.

i know all this is easier said then done, i have a hard enough time getting my own kid to stay committed let alone kids in our program.  but in a perfect world, i'd have no problems with a coach making a camp or something mandatory.

Concur, but DON't give them only one choice- my sport or NO sport.

you guys all have good points, and i can see that wrestling would probably end up on the short end of the stick on this to football and stuff.  good coaches (football, bball or whatever) shouldn't keep a kid or hold it against a kid if they play other sports.  my h.s. football coach would have loved it if we all did nothing but football but he accepted it.  he also knew he'd be in hot water if he had ever benched a kid specifically because he played another sport. 

however, i think there's nothing wrong with a coach making a camp/tournament/conditioning program mandatory to kids not in other sports, or kids without a good excuse.  sorry, that's just the way i see it.  i also think the more successful programs in the nation probably have mandatory off season stuff of some sort.  Graham, St. Eds, Blair Academy, etc....i would guess they have mandatory camps and tournaments for all varsity wrestlers.  perhaps they are "unwritten" mandatory stuff.  what do they do if you skip it?  i'm not sure...but as long as it's known in advance what the consequences are....no matter how severe, i think it's fine.  and before everyone blasts me and says "those programs are different...they're on another level....we don't have programs like that here".  1) we have football & probably basketball programs like that in this state....believe me.  2) aren't we trying to be like those programs?  don't we want to have a national powerhouse program out of this state?  i do.  i'd love to see 5-10 years from now that a team from Kentucky is in the top 5.  (unless it's woodford county ;-))  no seriously, even them.  i'd love to see it.  you can't get to that level with kids that aren't committed...with coaches and parents that make it ok and acceptable to skip camps/tournaments or whatever so they can sit at home and play super nintendo.

i know all this is easier said then done, i have a hard enough time getting my own kid to stay committed let alone kids in our program.  but in a perfect world, i'd have no problems with a coach making a camp or something mandatory.

you guys all have good points, and i can see that wrestling would probably end up on the short end of the stick on this to football and stuff.  good coaches (football, bball or whatever) shouldn't keep a kid or hold it against a kid if they play other sports.  my h.s. football coach would have loved it if we all did nothing but football but he accepted it.  he also knew he'd be in hot water if he had ever benched a kid specifically because he played another sport. 

however, i think there's nothing wrong with a coach making a camp/tournament/conditioning program mandatory to kids not in other sports, or kids without a good excuse.  sorry, that's just the way i see it.  i also think the more successful programs in the nation probably have mandatory off season stuff of some sort.  Graham, St. Eds, Blair Academy, etc....i would guess they have mandatory camps and tournaments for all varsity wrestlers.  perhaps they are "unwritten" mandatory stuff.  what do they do if you skip it?  i'm not sure...but as long as it's known in advance what the consequences are....no matter how severe, i think it's fine.  and before everyone blasts me and says "those programs are different...they're on another level....we don't have programs like that here".  1) we have football & probably basketball programs like that in this state....believe me.  2) aren't we trying to be like those programs?  don't we want to have a national powerhouse program out of this state?  i do.  i'd love to see 5-10 years from now that a team from Kentucky is in the top 5.  (unless it's woodford county ;-))  no seriously, even them.  i'd love to see it.  you can't get to that level with kids that aren't committed...with coaches and parents that make it ok and acceptable to skip camps/tournaments or whatever so they can sit at home and play super Nintendo.

i know all this is easier said then done, i have a hard enough time getting my own kid to stay committed let alone kids in our program.  but in a perfect world, i'd have no problems with a coach making a camp or something mandatory

You are right on, Super Nintendo,,,,,,,,,,,,?  try 360, Super Nintendo,,,,,,,,,, See what we junked in quarters at the bowling alley and mall, it is better than that!